Keep Rex, Keep Tyrod

[Mahdi]

If we actually take the time to evaluate the situation I think most rational people should come to the conclusion that firing Rex would not be a positive move for the Bills at this time.

Here are my reasons:


1. Injuries - Yes its an excuse but how about we actually look at it realistically, which other team would survive a season missing it's top 2 WR, 2-3 games without top RB, top RT, best coverage safety in a passing league, best defensive player and even our top 2 draft picks.

Yes every team goes through injuries but not to this extent and how many of them still win?

If the Giants for example were missing Odell Beckham, Sterling Shepherd, Landon Collins, JPP and Eli Apple would they be winning games? I highly doubt it.


2. Obviously Rex's defense is not where it should be, but he knows that and I think he just needs more time to get it where it will be a dominant defense. Firing Rex and tearing everything up again is not a positive step when you have a group of vets on defense especially that are ready to win now.

Ron Rivera went 6-10 in his first season and then 7-9 in his second before the Panthers won 34 of their next 48 games (excluding this season) and went to the SB.

This fan base should just be patient with this group of coaches. Rex will tighten up the defense and having guys like Dareus, Lawson, Ragland, and a couple of safeties will go a long way towards making the defense strong. We also have a really good OC in Anthony Lynn that if we continue with in that role, I think he will be a huge asset with a full off-season to plan and build his own playbook.

On to Tyrod, I think he needs to be kept. The options available at QB around the league are not there. Romo is an option but he will not come here. He can go to Denver or Arizona before us.

Yes Tyrod has struggled and infuriatingly so, however some QBs just need more time to figure it out. Vick was a dynamic passer in Philadelphia, he was Tyrod Taylor in Atlanta. I'm not saying put all our eggs in the TT basket, we still need to sign a vet backup and also draft another young QB. But we all know if Tyrod leaves he will help another team and he will get better and we will have lost a QB that can win for the Bills.

After 17 seasons its hard to think that patience makes any sense but this team is not that far away from being what the Chiefs, Ravens or Panthers are or have been.

Maybe for once Bills fans need to do something different for something different to happen. Every two years we call for someone's head and it happens. Then we repeat the cycle.

How about this time we go against our natural inclination to get someone fired and we instead show patience. Maybe then Bills fans will see a different result other than the same old story.

[OpIv37]

So tired of the injury excuse. We have a lot of injuries every year. Every single year. It's not going to stop. A coach who can't win with injuries simply can't win.

[coastal]

ummmm... wat?

[trapezeus]

how many of those coaches actually had victories going into the second half and then had their specialty (defense) abused and lose the game. 2 this year for rex. he blew the KC game last year. he is just a guy with excuses. iagree that for some better coaches whose teams competed well with the deficiencies could do better with less injuries. Rex isn't a winning coach. he'll use all the resources possible to keep ending up in the same spot. We move from him and the Brandon regime and i'll be as patient as can be.

[Joe Fo Sho]

If we actually take the time to evaluate the situation I think most rational people should come to the conclusion that firing Rex would not be a positive move for the Bills at this time.

I think if people actually did that, they'd see the opposite.


1. Injuries - Yes its an excuse but how about we actually look at it realistically, which other team would survive a season missing it's top 2 WR, 2-3 games without top RB, top RT, best coverage safety in a passing league, best defensive player and even our top 2 draft picks.

Excuses are for losers. Even when our team is relatively healthy, they're still not good enough. How come we lost to the Ravens and Jets the 1st 2 weeks this year?


2. Obviously Rex's defense is not where it should be, but he knows that and I think he just needs more time to get it where it will be a dominant defense. Firing Rex and tearing everything up again is not a positive step when you have a group of vets on defense especially that are ready to win now.

Did Rex not know that his defense wasn't where it was supposed to be last year? Why is it still garbage this year?


Ron Rivera went 6-10 in his first season and then 7-9 in his second before the Panthers won 34 of their next 48 games (excluding this season) and went to the SB.

Are there any examples of coaches that started bad and just kept being bad? I wonder which example there are more cases for?


On to Tyrod, I think he needs to be kept. The options available at QB around the league are not there. Romo is an option but he will not come here. He can go to Denver or Arizona before us.

Yes Tyrod has struggled and infuriatingly so, however some QBs just need more time to figure it out. Vick was a dynamic passer in Philadelphia, he was Tyrod Taylor in Atlanta. I'm not saying put all our eggs in the TT basket, we still need to sign a vet backup and also draft another young QB.

Tyrod is bad. There's no reason to stick with him, we're going nowhere with him as our starting QB.


But we all know if Tyrod leaves he will help another team and he will get better and we will have lost a QB that can win for the Bills.

Right, just like all of our other starting QBs have done recently.


How about this time we go against our natural inclination to get someone fired and we instead show patience. Maybe then Bills fans will see a different result other than the same old story.

It's been a great strategy for the Rams and the Jaguars, right?

[Mahdi]

I think if people actually did that, they'd see the opposite.



Excuses are for losers. Even when our team is relatively healthy, they're still not good enough. How come we lost to the Ravens and Jets the 1st 2 weeks this year?








We lost to the Ravens and Jets without:

Watkins (he was not healthy), Dareus, Lawson, Ragland. Arguably best offensive player, definitely best defensive player.

The D played excellent in Baltimore, then we lost 4 days later to the Jets with Fitz just throwing up miracles.

[zone]

We can't keep rinsing and repeating every 30 games, the teams that consistently win have continuity at head coach. No one is happy with the results this year or the last 17 and we have all run out of patience but we really need to hold strong and play this out for a few years.

Seattle was 7-9 in Pete's first two years in a horrible division.
Belichick had 2 losing seasons in his first 3 years in NE.
Jason Garrett didn't have a winning season util his 5th year in Dallas.

[OpIv37]

We can't keep rinsing and repeating every 30 games, the teams that consistently win have continuity at head coach. No one is happy with the results this year or the last 17 and we have all run out of patience but we really need to hold strong and play this out for a few years.

Seattle was 7-9 in Pete's first two years in a horrible division.
Belichick had 2 losing seasons in his first 3 years in NE.
Jason Garrett didn't have a winning season util his 5th year in Dallas.

If you don't want to rinse and repeat every 30 games, then we have to rinse correctly. The problem isn't that we are firing coaches too often. It's that we are hiring the wrong coaches in the first place. Rex Ryan won't win even if we give him a decade.

[Luisito23]

Rex is a career loser, Tyrod is nothing but a mediocre and flawed "QB"...those advocating for them to stay have a loser's mentality and are happy with mediocrity....but, yeah, keep Rex, keep Tyrod.

[Joe Fo Sho]

We lost to the Ravens and Jets without:

Watkins (he was not healthy), Dareus, Lawson, Ragland. Arguably best offensive player, definitely best defensive player.

Sammy is never healthy, so who cares...and 2 rookies who would've been playing in their 1st NFL game ever?? Are you kidding me?


The D played excellent in Baltimore, then we lost 4 days later to the Jets with Fitz just throwing up miracles.

Oh more excuses? You give credit to the D for playing well against Baltimore but don't take credit away when they play like garbage against Fitz? Not only that, you chalk it up to a 'miracle.' Again, excuses are for losers and you're full of 'em.

[The Beef]

Before the Steelers game I thought Rex would get 2 more years, afterwards.... no.

The defensive game plans have been a travesty.

Ajai and Bell murdered us.

Fitz looked like Brady.

Jimmy Graham and Gronk would score 30 TD's a year if they played vs this Rex defense.

The Raiders dropped 4 touchdowns in essentially 1 quarter.

The pass rush has disappeared.

His team doesn't have his 'personality'. We don't punch any team in the mouth.

And Tyrod is done man. He's a 6 year pro, he is what he is. The offenses only rhythm comes when Shady is ripping off chunk yardage every drive. Tyrod is lucky to string together 3 drives a game where he carries the offense and moves the chains consistently.

If it wasn't for Shady this offense would average 20 or less per game.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Seattle was 7-9 in Pete's first two years in a horrible division.

Carroll didn't inherit a team that had a winning record with the 4th ranked D in the league.


Belichick had 2 losing seasons in his first 3 years in NE.

Nothing like spinning the facts to try to prove your point. Bill went 11-5 in his second year. If Rex did that no one would want him gone.


Jason Garrett didn't have a winning season util his 5th year in Dallas.

You're counting his interim year as his 1st season? If you're going to do that, you should at least acknowledge that he had a winning record in the 8 games that he coached (5-3).

It was his 4th full year that he went 12-4, after going 8-8 his first 3 years. That's still better than what Rex is doing right now.

[EDS]

If we actually take the time to evaluate the situation I think most rational people should come to the conclusion that firing Rex would not be a positive move for the Bills at this time.

Here are my reasons:


1. Injuries - Yes its an excuse but how about we actually look at it realistically, which other team would survive a season missing it's top 2 WR, 2-3 games without top RB, top RT, best coverage safety in a passing league, best defensive player and even our top 2 draft picks.

Yes every team goes through injuries but not to this extent and how many of them still win?

If the Giants for example were missing Odell Beckham, Sterling Shepherd, Landon Collins, JPP and Eli Apple would they be winning games? I highly doubt it.


2. Obviously Rex's defense is not where it should be, but he knows that and I think he just needs more time to get it where it will be a dominant defense. Firing Rex and tearing everything up again is not a positive step when you have a group of vets on defense especially that are ready to win now.

Ron Rivera went 6-10 in his first season and then 7-9 in his second before the Panthers won 34 of their next 48 games (excluding this season) and went to the SB.

This fan base should just be patient with this group of coaches. Rex will tighten up the defense and having guys like Dareus, Lawson, Ragland, and a couple of safeties will go a long way towards making the defense strong. We also have a really good OC in Anthony Lynn that if we continue with in that role, I think he will be a huge asset with a full off-season to plan and build his own playbook.

On to Tyrod, I think he needs to be kept. The options available at QB around the league are not there. Romo is an option but he will not come here. He can go to Denver or Arizona before us.

Yes Tyrod has struggled and infuriatingly so, however some QBs just need more time to figure it out. Vick was a dynamic passer in Philadelphia, he was Tyrod Taylor in Atlanta. I'm not saying put all our eggs in the TT basket, we still need to sign a vet backup and also draft another young QB. But we all know if Tyrod leaves he will help another team and he will get better and we will have lost a QB that can win for the Bills.

After 17 seasons its hard to think that patience makes any sense but this team is not that far away from being what the Chiefs, Ravens or Panthers are or have been.

Maybe for once Bills fans need to do something different for something different to happen. Every two years we call for someone's head and it happens. Then we repeat the cycle.

How about this time we go against our natural inclination to get someone fired and we instead show patience. Maybe then Bills fans will see a different result other than the same old story.

Ron Rivera inherited a 2-14 team and turned it into a 6-10 team. Rex Ryan inherited a 9-7 and turned it into an 8-8 team.

Kansas City, which is currently 10-3 has accomplished that despite key personnel missing time (Jamaal Charles, Jeremy Maclin, Justin Houston, Alex Smith, Jaye Howard, Josh Mauga, etc.). Hmm.

[OpIv37]

See, this is where the objectivity goes away.

If we fire Rex and cut Tyrod, it means we are back to square 1 on rebuilding. We will have a new coach and no QB and be 2-3 years from playoffs. But, if Rex just needs one more off-season to get his defense in place, if we can stay healthy, if Tyrod will be fine with a little more experience, then we will be fine next season!

I wish Mahdi was right. But looking at the way Tyrod has regressed and what Rex has done both here and in the past, I can't objectively see it that way.

[Mahdi]

Sammy is never healthy, so who cares...and 2 rookies who would've been playing in their 1st NFL game ever?? Are you kidding me?



Oh more excuses? You give credit to the D for playing well against Baltimore but don't take credit away when they play like garbage against Fitz? Not only that, you chalk it up to a 'miracle.' Again, excuses are for losers and you're full of 'em.

Sammy was expected to be healthy and we went into the season with him as our #1.

Dareus is our best defensive player by far.

And yeah, when you draft a player in the first or second round you expect immediate impact, besides QBs that is.

The Jets games, all those toss ups Fitz threw were contested catches for the most part they just had a crazy good game coming down with the ball.

I think Rex needs 1 more year to get things right and I like the other coaches we have in place to get it done.

What is a loser mentality? To me that is accepting that losing is ok, I don't think its ok, I just believe that this group of players and coaches with some additions and tweaks can be a winning team that makes the playoffs.

I guess its a winning mentality to scrap everything and go after some other unknown HC with another unknown QB and a whole bunch of unknown coordinators and assistants that will flip everything over. That winning mentality has resulted in losing teams every 2 years.

[The Jokeman]

Sammy was expected to be healthy and we went into the season with him as our #1.

Dareus is our best defensive player by far.

And yeah, when you draft a player in the first or second round you expect immediate impact, besides QBs that is.

The Jets games, all those toss ups Fitz threw were contested catches for the most part they just had a crazy good game coming down with the ball.

I think Rex needs 1 more year to get things right and I like the other coaches we have in place to get it done.

What is a loser mentality? To me that is accepting that losing is ok, I don't think its ok, I just believe that this group of players and coaches with some additions and tweaks can be a winning team that makes the playoffs.

I guess its a winning mentality to scrap everything and go after some other unknown HC with another unknown QB and a whole bunch of unknown coordinators and assistants that will flip everything over. That winning mentality has resulted in losing teams every 2 years.

It's a tough sell because everyone wants to start fresh because the thought a fresh start means it going to be better but no guarantee.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Sammy was expected to be healthy and we went into the season with him as our #1.

If you're going to wait for every single player to be 100% healthy for every game during a season, grab a Snickers.


Dareus is our best defensive player by far.

Dareus has been a HUGE help since returning. Bell only had 300 yards from scrimmage this week.


And yeah, when you draft a player in the first or second round you expect immediate impact, besides QBs that is.

That's not true at all, especially when your 1st round pick has a known shoulder injury.


The Jets games, all those toss ups Fitz threw were contested catches for the most part they just had a crazy good game coming down with the ball.

So they were better than us? The Jets should get all the credit while the Bills deserve none of the blame? You're so clearly a homer that it's laughable.


I think Rex needs 1 more year to get things right and I like the other coaches we have in place to get it done.

Here are some quotes from you last year.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/231172-Rex-is-NOT-the-problem

"Rex is NOT the problem"

"I think there is way too much over-exaggeration about Rex "destroying" our amazing DL."

"I think he was trying to marry the strengths of our players with his scheme and its taking longer than expected for it to work."

"This guy knows football so I think he will make the appropriate changes."

You've been making excuses for this guy for 2 years.


What is a loser mentality? To me that is accepting that losing is ok, I don't think its ok, I just believe that this group of players and coaches with some additions and tweaks can be a winning team that makes the playoffs.

Clearly you do think losing is acceptable. Rex is losing and you aren't willing to make any significant changes.


I guess its a winning mentality to scrap everything and go after some other unknown HC with another unknown QB and a whole bunch of unknown coordinators and assistants that will flip everything over. That winning mentality has resulted in losing teams every 2 years.

When you've been losing for 2 years without showing any sign of improvement, yeah. That is what someone who wants to win would do.

[Albany,n.y.]

You strive for greatness & the goal is to be a Super Bowl champion. That means if you determine your coach and/or your QB isn't good enough to accomplish that goal, you look to replace them. Neither Rex nor Tyrod has given me any hope that they will someday bring the Lombardi Trophy to Buffalo. If you are satisfied with 6-10 wins a year and in a good year the 10 win peak can get you a playoff spot, then endorse Rex/Tyrod. If you're not then we have to look for better people to occupy the coach/QB spots. I'd rather take a step backwards next season with a new coach & then get the right QB in here than win 9 games next year, possibly squeak into the playoffs and have no Super Bowl in sight in my lifetime with Rex/Tyrod.

[Mahdi]

If you're going to wait for every single player to be 100% healthy for every game during a season, grab a Snickers.



Dareus has been a HUGE help since returning. Bell only had 300 yards from scrimmage this week.



That's not true at all, especially when your 1st round pick has a known shoulder injury.



So they were better than us? The Jets should get all the credit while the Bills deserve none of the blame? You're so clearly a homer that it's laughable.



Here are some quotes from you last year.

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/231172-Rex-is-NOT-the-problem

"Rex is NOT the problem"

"I think there is way too much over-exaggeration about Rex "destroying" our amazing DL."

"I think he was trying to marry the strengths of our players with his scheme and its taking longer than expected for it to work."

"This guy knows football so I think he will make the appropriate changes."

You've been making excuses for this guy for 2 years.



Clearly you do think losing is acceptable. Rex is losing and you aren't willing to make any significant changes.



When you've been losing for 2 years without showing any sign of improvement, yeah. That is what someone who wants to win would do.

You call it making excuses I call it giving a coach time to build a team, fix errors and add talent.

I stand by what I said then so thanks for bringing it up. For me, you need to give a coach at least 3 years to mold his team, ESPECIALLY when you don't have a true franchise QB. So much more has to be done when you don't have a Rodgers or a Matt Ryan.

I want Taylor back as I said but I also want a competitive QB depth chart.

[Mahdi]

You strive for greatness & the goal is to be a Super Bowl champion. That means if you determine your coach and/or your QB isn't good enough to accomplish that goal, you look to replace them. Neither Rex nor Tyrod has given me any hope that they will someday bring the Lombardi Trophy to Buffalo. If you are satisfied with 6-10 wins a year and in a good year the 10 win peak can get you a playoff spot, then endorse Rex/Tyrod. If you're not then we have to look for better people to occupy the coach/QB spots. I'd rather take a step backwards next season with a new coach & then get the right QB in here than win 9 games next year, possibly squeak into the playoffs and have no Super Bowl in sight in my lifetime with Rex/Tyrod.

Everyone wants a top QB, but it hasn't happened and getting a new coach does not mean we will also magically find a new QB.

[The Jokeman]

Everyone wants a top QB, but it hasn't happened and getting a new coach does not mean we will also magically find a new QB.

Yet one has to wonder why Rex hasn't been able to develop a QB both here and with the Jets.

[Mahdi]

Yet one has to wonder why Rex hasn't been able to develop a QB both here and with the Jets.

I don't think anyone expects Rex to develop a QB.

Franchise QBs are rare and everyone is trying to find one in one way or another.

Rex drafted guys that didn't pan out, signed guys that didn't pan out, traded for guys.

Tyrod is his latest attempt and I'm sure he'll continue as he did by drafting Cardale. You don't think he wants his own Aaron Rodgers or Cam Newton?

[Joe Fo Sho]

You call it making excuses I call it giving a coach time to build a team, fix errors and add talent.

I stand by what I said then so thanks for bringing it up. For me, you need to give a coach at least 3 years to mold his team, ESPECIALLY when you don't have a true franchise QB. So much more has to be done when you don't have a Rodgers or a Matt Ryan.

I want Taylor back as I said but I also want a competitive QB depth chart.

It's such a terrible idea to bring back a underachieving QB with a big contract and let him 'compete' for his job. We could be using his cap hit on other areas to improve the team instead of just throwing it in the dumpster.

[OpIv37]

Maybe for once Bills fans need to do something different for something different to happen. Every two years we call for someone's head and it happens. Then we repeat the cycle.

Btw it's more than a little ironic that you're calling for us to do something different by doing the exact same thing that didn't work for the last two seasons.

[Mahdi]

Btw it's more than a little ironic that you're calling for us to do something different by doing the exact same thing that didn't work for the last two seasons.

The part that is different is that we give a coach 3 years at least to build a team.

Its 10x harder to do that job when you don't have a QB.

[OpIv37]

The part that is different is that we give a coach 3 years at least to build a team.

Its 10x harder to do that job when you don't have a QB.
Well next year he's still not going to have a QB and we are still going to have injuries. The team has regressed under Ryan.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I'm not a fan of Rex Ryan and haven't been since the beginning. That said, I don't think you can fire a guy the second he drops below .500. If we collapse and finish out the season 6-10, sure, but right now Rex can still get us to 9-7. I don't like the idea of dumping coaches if they can't get us to 10 wins in two years.


Ron Rivera inherited a 2-14 team and turned it into a 6-10 team. Rex Ryan inherited a 9-7 and turned it into an 8-8 team.

Rivera had two losing season before he had a winning one, which would have gotten his ass dumped with this board. Also, he's in a division so inconsistent that he can win it with 7.5 wins.


Kansas City, which is currently 10-3 has accomplished that despite key personnel missing time (Jamaal Charles, Jeremy Maclin, Justin Houston, Alex Smith, Jaye Howard, Josh Mauga, etc.). Hmm.

KC (like the rest of the West) also lucked out by playing the AFC and NFC South this year. Every year, people forget that the AFC South is steaming cow crap and whichever division plays them gets a huge boost. Last year it was us and the East, hence the 10 win Jets and 8 win Bills. the year before that it was the AFC North getting 3 teams to 10 wins. That said, I think KC's defensive coordinator would be a worthy hire if Pegula does fire Rex.

[mightysimi]

I was pretty vocal last year about wanting to see another year for continuity. That being said, I don't think his D is going to improve. Do we give him another year of drafting D players and ignoring the other problems? Other teams have injuries but none of them gave up multiple 200 yard rushers. Unfortunately, QB's don't go on trees so we maybe stuck with Taylor or an unknown which is essentially blowing it up.

[TacklingDummy]

I'm ok with keeping Rex but Tyrod has got to go.

Enough with these coach killing Quarterbacks,

[OpIv37]

One other flaw I should point out: Mularkey was the only coach fired after two seasons. Marrone quit on his own. Phillips, Williams, Jauron and Gailey all had at least 3 seasons with nothing to show for it.

So, firing after 2 seasons isn't what this team usually does. It's only happened once since Levy was hired in 1986. And we are 0 for 4 in terms of giving an embattled coach your requisite 3rd season.

[trapezeus]

dareus is our best player by far". yet he's invisible. the players have quit. they aren't all getting on the field in year 2. Rex's gone with all his cronies and he still can't get them to be any better. rex is in over his head and his team has quit.

the continuity on good teams happens, because there is continuity to build off of. Baltimore keeps with it even when they have a bad season at 9-7. our best records are 9-7. continuity by itself when all the other facts show that Brandon and co are creating an environment where better scouts, GMs and coaches wont come will continue to create the mediocrity that we have. I think everyone would be happy with a true gutting of the team and letting a GM who knows how to do it without meddlesome executives piping in bad ideas and have that team go 1-15 the first season. if you could see a plan, you'd buy into that plan.

but the plan right now is that 8-8, 7-9 is good enough and if we just do it enough times with the same people, there maybe a 10-6 season and that might just be ok enough to get a low seed in the playoffs. and that might get fans off their back.

the bills going to the playoffs alone isn't enough for me. I want to think they have a chance in that first game. this team isn't there. it won't be there. they have to get a qb again, they'll cut their best back up qb option in TT and have cardale as their #1. It's a tire fire at one bills drive and the reason there are all these rumors is because everyone sees this team as garbage. hopefully the pegulas are seeing what the fans and buffalo press are seeing. the entire structure is rotten and a legit startover is needed.

[Mahdi]

One other flaw I should point out: Mularkey was the only coach fired after two seasons. Marrone quit on his own. Phillips, Williams, Jauron and Gailey all had at least 3 seasons with nothing to show for it.

So, firing after 2 seasons isn't what this team usually does. It's only happened once since Levy was hired in 1986. And we are 0 for 4 in terms of giving an embattled coach your requisite 3rd season.

Great point, then maybe three seasons is not enough. Maybe the real problem is we haven't had a QB in 17 years so every coach that comes in here fails. Maybe we need to give this coach more time to find a QB and continue building his team until then.

I think everyone can admit that Rex and Whaley despite the results have some nice players to work with. But if we don't find a QB it won't matter.

I mentioned the Chiefs as a good example but now thinking about it, I don't know that it is a good example. Do we even want a QB like Alex Smith? Can he bring you back when you're losing?

I think this team needs to find a Derek Carr.

[Bill Cody]

Great point, then maybe three seasons is not enough.
This post is INSANE

[sdbillsfan2]

]"firing Rex would not be a positive move for the Bills at this time."


At this time ? Really ? Just when is the appropriate time ?
Should we wait until the ship is further under water?
This team has no discipline and its proving to have no heart. Rexs record against above average teams speaks volumes .How many games when hes clearly been out coached do we need to see. His decensive genius (sarcasm ) is getting beat badly. His choice for qb scares no one. Teams know if they grab an early lead, a Rex led team has no history of comebacks. Look at his overall history .. Same BS now as Jets fan had to put up with .A team that declined further the longer Rex was the coach.
So I ask again why isnt this the best time !!

[Joe Fo Sho]

I think this team needs to find a Derek Carr.

You're really breaking new ground there, Copernicus.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I'm ok with keeping Rex but Tyrod has got to go.

This is where I'm at, as well.

I'd prefer Rex to be gone, but I've always felt that Pegula wouldn't be willing to eat 60% of his contract and I don't really expect him to.

[swiper]

The defensive game plans have been a travesty.



Every OC in the league knows how to defense around his "keep the CB on an island" garbage.

[swiper]

One other flaw I should point out: Mularkey was the only coach fired after two seasons.


Mularkey walked out on the Bills! He wasn't fired.




Mularkey resigns as Bills' head coach (http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2289987)

[OpIv37]

Mularkey walked out on the Bills! He wasn't fired.




Mularkey resigns as Bills' head coach (http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2289987)
You're right, which means that this team hasn't fired a coach after less than 3 seasons since before Marv.

[Novacane]

STFU Brandon!

[Mr. Pink]

And then we can go 7-9 again!

HOORAY!

[cookie G]

KC (like the rest of the West) also lucked out by playing the AFC and NFC South this year. Every year, people forget that the AFC South is steaming cow crap and whichever division plays them gets a huge boost. Last year it was us and the East, hence the 10 win Jets and 8 win Bills. the year before that it was the AFC North getting 3 teams to 10 wins. That said, I think KC's defensive coordinator would be a worthy hire if Pegula does fire Rex.

They've beaten Oakland, Denver and Atlanta in recent weeks and have given the Raiders 2 of their 3 defeats this year.

Go back to 2013. 2 teams are at a crossroads.

The Chiefs were coming off a 2-14 season, the Bills a 6-10 season. Their offense was led by Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn, with their weapons consisting only of Charles and Dwayne Bowe. They were saddled with notable high pick busts such as Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, Javiar Arenas and Jonathan Baldwin.

Since that time, the Chiefs have a 41-20 record, and will most likely have their 3rd 11 win season in 4 years. They haven't yet had a losing season.

The Bills will be on their 3rd coach with an overall losing record.


I'd like a little of their luck.

[The Beef]

You can excuse Rex for what he's had at QB, you can't excuse him for what he's done for the defense.

Outside of the scheme, where is the desire?

Where are guys flowing to the ball and gang tackling?

Where are we confusing OL's with Rex's blitz schemes?

Offenses are doing whatever they want vs this defense.

I told my Dad who is a diehard Steerls fan that Bell would go for 200 on the ground and Tyrod 100 passing. Luckily Tyrod got some nice garbage time number, but it turned out Bell put up 300 overall.

If Haley wasn't so pass happy in the first Bell would've had an even bigger day. It was obvious after the first 3rd and 10 to start the game that this defense wanted nothing to do with Bell.

[coastal]

Total organizational flush!!!!!

anything short of that, we will be having the same discussion at the 20 year mark.

[BertSquirtgum]

Keep Rex. Throw away Tyrod so he can't start him next year because he SUCKS. Unfortunately, I feel that the Bills are going to win their next three games and the Pegulas are going to keep RexOmatic for another season. :puke: :puke: :puke:

[cookie G]

Total organizational flush!!!!!

anything short of that, we will be having the same discussion at the 20 year mark.

Wolf-Polian and Associates have a Groupon...20% off all consulting services. But it expires at the end of the year. Jump on it!

[justasportsfan]

If we actually take the time to evaluate the situation I think most rational people should come to the conclusion that firing Rex would not be a positive move for the Bills at this time.

Here are my reasons:


1. Injuries - Yes its an excuse but how about we actually look at it realistically, which other team would survive a season missing it's top 2 WR, 2-3 games without top RB, top RT, best coverage safety in a passing league, best defensive player and even our top 2 draft picks.

Yes every team goes through injuries but not to this extent and how many of them still win?

If the Giants for example were missing Odell Beckham, Sterling Shepherd, Landon Collins, JPP and Eli Apple would they be winning games? I highly doubt it.


2. Obviously Rex's defense is not where it should be, but he knows that and I think he just needs more time to get it where it will be a dominant defense. Firing Rex and tearing everything up again is not a positive step when you have a group of vets on defense especially that are ready to win now.

Ron Rivera went 6-10 in his first season and then 7-9 in his second before the Panthers won 34 of their next 48 games (excluding this season) and went to the SB.

This fan base should just be patient with this group of coaches. Rex will tighten up the defense and having guys like Dareus, Lawson, Ragland, and a couple of safeties will go a long way towards making the defense strong. We also have a really good OC in Anthony Lynn that if we continue with in that role, I think he will be a huge asset with a full off-season to plan and build his own playbook.

On to Tyrod, I think he needs to be kept. The options available at QB around the league are not there. Romo is an option but he will not come here. He can go to Denver or Arizona before us.

Yes Tyrod has struggled and infuriatingly so, however some QBs just need more time to figure it out. Vick was a dynamic passer in Philadelphia, he was Tyrod Taylor in Atlanta. I'm not saying put all our eggs in the TT basket, we still need to sign a vet backup and also draft another young QB. But we all know if Tyrod leaves he will help another team and he will get better and we will have lost a QB that can win for the Bills.

After 17 seasons its hard to think that patience makes any sense but this team is not that far away from being what the Chiefs, Ravens or Panthers are or have been.

Maybe for once Bills fans need to do something different for something different to happen. Every two years we call for someone's head and it happens. Then we repeat the cycle.

How about this time we go against our natural inclination to get someone fired and we instead show patience. Maybe then Bills fans will see a different result other than the same old story.

You must really hate the bills or love getting B slapped by Bellicheat every year.

[Novacane]

Russ and Terry love fans that think like this.

[BertSquirtgum]

Rex needs to be fired because I don't like looking at his big dumb face and he just simply is a bad head coach. His inability to make in game adjustments has cost this teams wins. That's just to name one negative about the big dummy.

[Victor7]

I think if people actually did that, they'd see the opposite.


Excuses are for losers. Even when our team is relatively healthy, they're still not good enough. How come we lost to the Ravens and Jets the 1st 2 weeks this year?



Did Rex not know that his defense wasn't where it was supposed to be last year? Why is it still garbage this year?



Are there any examples of coaches that started bad and just kept being bad? I wonder which example there are more cases for?



Tyrod is bad. There's no reason to stick with him, we're going nowhere with him as our starting QB.



Right, just like all of our other starting QBs have done recently.



It's been a great strategy for the Rams and the Jaguars, right?

End thread.


I love Mahdi's optimism but it borders on psychological evaluation homerism.

[Arm of Harm]

In deciding whether to keep a person on your team, you need to ask, "What does this person bring that would be difficult to replace?" Not in terms of his "potential," but his proven track record of accomplishments. (With a younger or less experienced player it's fine if some of those accomplishments were in college.)

With a head coach you look at three things: the quality of his offensive or defensive scheme, his ability to identify and attract top tier coordinators and assistants, and his ability to motivate the team. In each of those three areas, it's not clear that Rex Ryan gives you anything that would be particularly difficult to replace.

Michael Vick was a first overall pick; whereas Tyrod Taylor was chosen in the sixth round. That's evidence that Vick achieved much more as a college player than did Tyrod. (Even though both players run very fast.) Taylor had one good year, before defenses figured out that the way to beat him is to keep him in the pocket and make him be a quarterback. It would be difficult to replace Taylor the running back; trivially easy to replace Taylor the pocket passer.

Finally you have to look at Doug Whaley's performance as GM. Certainly his drafts have been nothing to write home about, and are below-average for an NFL GM. It's very doubtful the team will find its long-term answer at QB as long as he's the one calling the shots. He's done well with some of his free agent signings, but you don't keep a GM just for that. Just as Chan Gailey's ceiling is offensive coordinator, Doug Whaley's ceiling is pro personnel director.

[YardRat]

Continuity simply for the sake of continuity is just plain ignorant. If this were just about any other coach I may be inclined to agree, but Wrecks' resume doesn't give any indication that he can make a team better over a period of time...it's downward curve, and that's the only aspect of Wrecks as a HC that speaks 'continuity'. As far as Taylor, if he were a QB that has shown some progress and growth, I may agree there also...but he hasn't, he's getting worse, and injuries are not nearly a good enough excuse for his lack of development as a starter.

As one of my silver-haired fox brethren famously said "Know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away and know when to run". It's time to walk away from Tyrod, and run like hell from Wrecks.

[Mace]

Rex needs to be fired because I don't like looking at his big dumb face and he just simply is a bad head coach. His inability to make in game adjustments has cost this teams wins. That's just to name one negative about the big dummy.

That was four. I won't even bother naming one about the pompous blowhard.

[justasportsfan]

We cant even use continuity as a reason when we continue to regress.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

They've beaten Oakland, Denver and Atlanta in recent weeks and have given the Raiders 2 of their 3 defeats this year.
Go back to 2013. 2 teams are at a crossroads.
The Chiefs were coming off a 2-14 season, the Bills a 6-10 season. Their offense was led by Matt Cassel and Brady Quinn, with their weapons consisting only of Charles and Dwayne Bowe. They were saddled with notable high pick busts such as Glenn Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, Javiar Arenas and Jonathan Baldwin.
Since that time, the Chiefs have a 41-20 record, and will most likely have their 3rd 11 win season in 4 years. They haven't yet had a losing season.
The Bills will be on their 3rd coach with an overall losing record.

I'd like a little of their luck.

Andy Reid is a better coach then Rex and you'll get no argument from me on that point, but let's not pretend the Chiefs were a wasteland when he took over. In 2013 the roster had five Pro Bowl players in their prime, along with Dontari Poe and Brandon Albert. Reid and Sutton have done an amazing job with that team (and again, I'd look hard at Sutton to replace Rex if we fired him), but they had the core of their defense built and its the D that has carried them.

[BillsImpossible]

You must really hate the bills or love getting B slapped by Bellicheat every year.

What was Bill Belichick's head coaching record before Brady?

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/BeliBi0.htm

In Belichick's first 6 seasons without Brady, he won 41 games and lost 55.

41-55

Now he's a "genius."

[Mace]

Andy Reid is a better coach then Rex and you'll get no argument from me on that point, but let's not pretend the Chiefs were a wasteland when he took over. In 2013 the roster had five Pro Bowl players in their prime, along with Dontari Poe and Brandon Albert. Reid and Sutton have done an amazing job with that team (and again, I'd look hard at Sutton to replace Rex if we fired him), but they had the core of their defense built and its the D that has carried them.

Biggest thing I remember about 2013 is that we hired Syracuse guy and never even had Arians in for an interview.

But we also had Kyle, Dareus, Gilmore, Eric Wood, Robert Woods, Cordy Glenn, Aaron Williams, Mario Williams (Schwartz could use), Pro Bowl level Jairus Byrd, Spiller who'd be good for 933 rushing yards, Bradham & McKelvin (used well by Donnie Henderson and Schwartz), same kicker Dan Carpenter when he was doing well, some quality Kiko Alonso at the time, same Nickell Robey-Coleman, Searcy playing well, same Corbin Bryant.

At the time we even had the legendary Doug Legursky.

Ok, well forget that last one but we had some core players of our own to build with.

[TacklingDummy]

Great point, then maybe three seasons is not enough. Maybe the real problem is we haven't had a QB in 17 years so every coach that comes in here fails. Maybe we need to give this coach more time to find a QB and continue building his team until then.

I think everyone can admit that Rex and Whaley despite the results have some nice players to work with. But if we don't find a QB it won't matter.

I mentioned the Chiefs as a good example but now thinking about it, I don't know that it is a good example. Do we even want a QB like Alex Smith? Can he bring you back when you're losing?

I think this team needs to find a Derek Carr.


Nailed it.

[BillsImpossible]

If the Bills finish 9-7, it would be crazy to pull the plug.

I've always liked Rex Ryan. I liked Buddy Ryan too, throwing punches on the sideline...

Even when Rex was the coach of the Jets, I respected the man. He's not a pussy, and he's not a nasty jerk like Saint Doug.

The guy loves Buffalo, has a good sense of humor and he's a good coach waiting for a QB, and his defense to develop.

In 1983, the Chicago Bears had a terrible defense. Two years later Da' Bears had the best (arguably) NFL defense of all time.

If Marcel Dareus can stop dancing with two girls in his arms at nightclubs, Sammy Watkins shaves the cat off his head to relieve pressure on his foot, and Tyrod Taylor studies Drew Brees and Russell Wilson until he's blue like Bruce Smith...the Bills will be playing in Super Bowl LII.

In Rex Ryan's 8 years as head coach in the NFL, he's 60-65.

Considering the QB's he's had to play with in a QB driven league, that's impressive.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RyanRe0.htm

46-50 with the Jets.

14-15 with the Bills....and soon to be 17-15.

If they lose to the Browns, he's fired.

[Mace]

Looked it up btw, Alex Smith has 20 comeback wins, Tyrod has 2. Smith has 3 in 2016 alone. Can Alex bring you back when you're losing ? Well....

[Mace]

Considering the QB's he's had to play with in a QB driven league, that's impressive.

Well sure, Imposaurus Rex, but he wanted them unable to pass in a QB driven league. Remember that game where he wouldn't even let Geno Smith try to pass, just kept running against a stacked box over and over until deep into the 4th quarter ? I actually watched that game, much to my distress.

[BillsImpossible]

Well sure, Imposaurus Rex, but he wanted them unable to pass in a QB driven league. Remember that game where he wouldn't even let Geno Smith try to pass, just kept running against a stacked box over and over until deep into the 4th quarter ? I actually watched that game, much to my distress.

Not letting Geno Smith pass is a good thing.

[Mace]

Not letting Geno Smith pass is a good thing.

!!!!

[Mace]

Not letting Geno Smith pass is a good thing.

I fail to see why you feel the need to debate me every time I argue with you, Imp.

[BillsImpossible]

I fail to see why you feel the need to debate me every time I argue with you, Imp.

Arguing with me? I never sensed an argument, just good fun and fair competition. I never feel the need to debate anyone, I just like to reply to your posts in particular because you start a good discussion at the bar, mixed with a great sense of humor, a dash of bull**** and a lot of fun.

You are one of the few and the proud to not be a dick, or pussy and you march to your own beat.

I highly respect that.

[Mace]

Arguing with me? I never sensed an argument, just good fun and fair competition. I never feel the need to debate anyone, I just like to reply to your posts in particular because you start a good discussion at the bar, mixed with a great sense of humor, a dash of bull**** and a lot of fun.

You are one of the few and the proud to not be a dick, or pussy and you march to your own beat.

I highly respect that.

I'm not going to be drawn into a discussion parsing semantics here with you Imp, There's no call for it.

:beers:

(I was kidding. That Geno Smith game was ridiculous. Ryan kept running over and over, because Geno and the NY offense were taking a beating in the press for being ineffective. He meant to prove they'd win with it, but they lost, with backs running on rubber legs at a stacked box and receivers not even being covered not even running patterns anymore).

[djjimkelly]

tyrod must go rex i can handle more of him i know i know but no more tryrod

[Night Train]

Ryan was sold to us with the idea the D would be good. The LB and secondary play has fallen off the cliff. Teams can run on the Bills with ease.

Plus he married himself to TT instead of realizing he's nothing more than a transition QB while a real option is found. It's not working.

[coastal]

Why hasn't this thread dropped onto page 3 by now?

[YardRat]

Why hasn't this thread dropped onto page 3 by now?

Because you keep posting in it.

[Mahdi]

Looked it up btw, Alex Smith has 20 comeback wins, Tyrod has 2. Smith has 3 in 2016 alone. Can Alex bring you back when you're losing ? Well....

Interesting, I wonder what the average amount of points were though that he had to comeback from... Also this year, the Chiefs have come back through huge defensive plays when they were down in games. Atlanta and Carolina I believe?

Eric Berry won the game with a pick 2 in Atlanta and Marcus Peters won the game with a strip of Kelvin Benjamin in Carolina.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Biggest thing I remember about 2013 is that we hired Syracuse guy and never even had Arians in for an interview.

But we also had Kyle, Dareus, Gilmore, Eric Wood, Robert Woods, Cordy Glenn, Aaron Williams, Mario Williams (Schwartz could use), Pro Bowl level Jairus Byrd, Spiller who'd be good for 933 rushing yards, Bradham & McKelvin (used well by Donnie Henderson and Schwartz), same kicker Dan Carpenter when he was doing well, some quality Kiko Alonso at the time, same Nickell Robey-Coleman, Searcy playing well, same Corbin Bryant.

At the time we even had the legendary Doug Legursky.

Ok, well forget that last one but we had some core players of our own to build with.

The best those core players got us to was 9-7, and then several were run out of town. This board couldn't wait to get rid of McKelvin, Spiller, and Byrd.

Since the thread is talking about Rex, I'd point out that Byrd, Searcy, Bradham, Spiller, Alonso, and McKelvin never played a snap for him. Out of a possible 29 games, Kyle Williams has missed 11, Dareus has missed 9, Gilmore missed 4, Woods missed 5, Wood has missed 4 and is on IR, Aaron Williams missed 19 and has been sent to IR twice, Mario was let go after one year, Bryant missed 5 and is on IR, etc. So, I wouldn't compare that to what KC has been fighting through.

We do miss Legursky though.

[Mahdi]

Ryan was sold to us with the idea the D would be good. The LB and secondary play has fallen off the cliff. Teams can run on the Bills with ease.

Plus he married himself to TT instead of realizing he's nothing more than a transition QB while a real option is found. It's not working.

Good thing they signed a prenup.

I only want TT to stay on the condition he is part of a 4 man QB competition.

[justasportsfan]

If the Bills finish 9-7, it would be crazy to pull the plug.

I've always liked Rex Ryan. I liked Buddy Ryan too, throwing punches on the sideline...

Even when Rex was the coach of the Jets, I respected the man. He's not a pussy, and he's not a nasty jerk like Saint Doug.

The guy loves Buffalo, has a good sense of humor and he's a good coach waiting for a QB, and his defense to develop.

In 1983, the Chicago Bears had a terrible defense. Two years later Da' Bears had the best (arguably) NFL defense of all time.

If Marcel Dareus can stop dancing with two girls in his arms at nightclubs, Sammy Watkins shaves the cat off his head to relieve pressure on his foot, and Tyrod Taylor studies Drew Brees and Russell Wilson until he's blue like Bruce Smith...the Bills will be playing in Super Bowl LII.

In Rex Ryan's 8 years as head coach in the NFL, he's 60-65.

Considering the QB's he's had to play with in a QB driven league, that's impressive.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/RyanRe0.htm

46-50 with the Jets.

14-15 with the Bills....and soon to be 17-15.

If they lose to the Browns, he's fired.


Why? You expect it to get better than 9-7? Even if we win out, it's against crappy teams.If you think we will get better next year don't forget, the other teams will be drafting and competing in FA too.


Rex is married to his brain that thinks his scheme is all that .He got torched by Fitz for crying out loud.

Not even Dick Jaurons defense gave up franchise record in passing and running yards to the opponents.

The state of the defense alone should tell you that Rex is not headcoach material. Maybe the D will improve if he was demoted to a DC. MAYBE.

He has crappy qb's because he puts more emphasis on ground and pound even though it's a passing game. The best teams pass the ball.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Good thing they signed a prenup.

Which is void if we keep him this offseason, which is something you want to do.


I only want TT to stay on the condition he is part of a 4 man QB competition.

You want to pay $85 million dollars over the next 5 years to a player that admittedly would be part of a FOUR MAN QB COMPETITION? The level of incompetence this team would show by doing that would be mind boggling.

[Bill Cody]

A 4 man QB competition shows you don't have 1 good player

[sukie]

I want a QB built like Dak Prescott, The guy is huge and drops back with authority... Very un rookie-like

[Arm of Harm]

Ryan was sold to us with the idea the D would be good. The LB and secondary play has fallen off the cliff. Teams can run on the Bills with ease.

Plus he married himself to TT instead of realizing he's nothing more than a transition QB while a real option is found. It's not working.


I would argue that Doug Whaley's failure to obtain a real QB is Doug Whaley's fault, and his fault alone. Swap out the head coach all you want, and it isn't going to make Whaley suddenly turn into an expert evaluator of QB talent.

Not that the Bills had any business in hiring Rex in the first place. That was a fairly obvious mistake from day one.

[Night Train]

I want a QB built like Dak Prescott, The guy is huge and drops back with authority... Very un rookie-like

He's 6-2. Fitz is the same size.

[Mace]

Interesting, I wonder what the average amount of points were though that he had to comeback from... Also this year, the Chiefs have come back through huge defensive plays when they were down in games. Atlanta and Carolina I believe?

Eric Berry won the game with a pick 2 in Atlanta and Marcus Peters won the game with a strip of Kelvin Benjamin in Carolina.

Well, just looking at this year, 8 pts total/8 in the 4th (Denver)....17 points total/9 in the 4th (Carolina)....21 pts total/17 in the 4th (San Diego). Carolina & Denver were road games. No turnovers.

With Carolina, at the start of the 4th, Smith took them downfield in 3 minutes for a field goal (sense of urgency, quick paced offense command).

With San Diego (OT win), a 62 yard drive in 3 minutes, 70 yard gw drive in OT (5 out of 6 passing), a 56 yard drive in less than 2 minutes exclusively passing (down by 17).

With Denver (OT win), they fell behind in OT, needed 2 drives (Smith 4/6 for 53), in the 4th, a 3 minute drive to tie it, Smith going 8 of 14 for 67, TD and 2 pt conversion.

Those three are more than Tyrod's career 2, and significantly more clutch than Taylor has demonstrated.

Winston has 5 gw drives already, Siemian already has 3, Losman even had 6 in 2 years, Geno Smith has 3, JaMarcus Russell even has 4. John Skelton had 8, Chris Simms even had 3, Drew Stanton 4. Rookie Dak Prescott already has 4, Trentative Checkdown Edwards even had 6. Matt Flynn, Matt Cassel, even Joey Harrington had 7 !

Tyrod Taylor just has no clutch performance in him.

[SpikedLemonade]

Worst. Thread. Ever.

[cookie G]

Worst. Thread. Ever.

I'm sure if you dig far enough, you'll find a few "Why Dick Jauron should stay" threads.

[swiper]

Worst. Thread. Ever.

Why?

Because the mods are playing Literate and deleting my posts?

Or because the original poster is 13 years old and started another stupid thread topic that everybody is shoving back down his throat?

[SpikedLemonade]

I'm sure if you dig far enough, you'll find a few "Why Dick Jauron should stay" threads.

Oh crap!

- - - Updated - - -


Why?

Because the mods are playing Literate and deleting my posts?

Or because the original poster is 13 years old and started another stupid thread topic that everybody is shoving back down his throat?

Both

[Mr. Pink]

I'm sure if you dig far enough, you'll find a few "Why Dick Jauron should stay" threads.

Still the best coach this team has had since Wade.

Jauron's teams here overachieved which would be a vast improvement over what we see at the present.

[cookie G]

Still the best coach this team has had since Wade.

Jauron's teams here overachieved which would be a vast improvement over what we see at the present.

Most of his overachieving was his own doing.

He was the Rex of the Cover 2...insisting on scheme over personnel.

When he was hired, the Bills were 1 year removed from a top 5 defense. The 2005 defense collapsed in part due to Spike's injury. They lost their heart after that.

but when he came in, instead of replacing a few pieces to the D, he insisted on an overhaul to the Cover 2. Fletcher, Milloy, Adams and Posey were jettisoned...and Spikes demanded a trade a year later.

They were replaced by...3 DB's out of the 1st 4 picks of the 2006 draft, plus John McCargo because he had the look of a 3 tech.

And this defensive overhaul was made at a time when they didn't have a QB, and barely an offensive line.

The bigger guys were replaced by little guys because...in the Cover 2...you want little guys....it didn't matter if they were fast or not, or could play or not. He went for a look...

And it showed..a team that got run over every week.

On offensive, he was content to be in the bottom 5-10 in scoring every year. He ranked above 23rd in scoring once..yes..once..in his 9 year coaching career (Buff and Chicago.)

There's a reason the guy has one winning season in 9 years as a head coach.

They were going nowhere with him.

[HHURRICANE]

I'm ok with keeping Rex. Tyrod needs to be renefgotiated. Rex's brother has to go. Pegula makes a public statement that if the Bills don't make the playoffs next year Rex and Whaley are gone.

Last caveat....we draft a QB.

[Mace]

Most of his overachieving was his own doing.

He was the Rex of the Cover 2...insisting on scheme over personnel.

When he was hired, the Bills were 1 year removed from a top 5 defense. The 2005 defense collapsed in part due to Spike's injury. They lost their heart after that.

but when he came in, instead of replacing a few pieces to the D, he insisted on an overhaul to the Cover 2. Fletcher, Milloy, Adams and Posey were jettisoned...and Spikes demanded a trade a year later.

They were replaced by...3 DB's out of the 1st 4 picks of the 2006 draft, plus John McCargo because he had the look of a 3 tech.

And this defensive overhaul was made at a time when they didn't have a QB, and barely an offensive line.

The bigger guys were replaced by little guys because...in the Cover 2...you want little guys....it didn't matter if they were fast or not, or could play or not. He went for a look...

And it showed..a team that got run over every week.

On offensive, he was content to be in the bottom 5-10 in scoring every year. He ranked above 23rd in scoring once..yes..once..in his 9 year coaching career (Buff and Chicago.)

There's a reason the guy has one winning season in 9 years as a head coach.

They were going nowhere with him.

Had that weird punting in opponent territory thing going too, and this bizarre fascination with not attacking a weakness, like he didn't want to be mean to an opponent. If an opponent had pass defense injuries, they'd run, OL injuries they wouldn't blitz, feeble QB they'd play prevent so the guy could march them down on dump passes. If the running game worked, abandon it after the half, if the opponents running game was working, don't stack the box, if the opponent needs a game winning field goal, by all means get bendy enough to give them a chance at it.

He could never explain himself either, and for a supposedly intelligent guy was always speaking in meaningless sentences that started and stopped random to topic.

I have never ever missed Dick Jauron.

[YardRat]

Most of his overachieving was his own doing.

He was the Rex of the Cover 2...insisting on scheme over personnel.

When he was hired, the Bills were 1 year removed from a top 5 defense. The 2005 defense collapsed in part due to Spike's injury. They lost their heart after that.

but when he came in, instead of replacing a few pieces to the D, he insisted on an overhaul to the Cover 2. Fletcher, Milloy, Adams and Posey were jettisoned...and Spikes demanded a trade a year later.

They were replaced by...3 DB's out of the 1st 4 picks of the 2006 draft, plus John McCargo because he had the look of a 3 tech.

And this defensive overhaul was made at a time when they didn't have a QB, and barely an offensive line.

The bigger guys were replaced by little guys because...in the Cover 2...you want little guys....it didn't matter if they were fast or not, or could play or not. He went for a look...

And it showed..a team that got run over every week.

On offensive, he was content to be in the bottom 5-10 in scoring every year. He ranked above 23rd in scoring once..yes..once..in his 9 year coaching career (Buff and Chicago.)

There's a reason the guy has one winning season in 9 years as a head coach.

They were going nowhere with him.

Wrecks has 2 in 8, and inherited teams that had a winning record prior to his coming at both of his gigs. If the Jets were a sub-500 team when he got there he probably wouldn't have any.

[justasportsfan]

Dick Jauron was the best play not to lose HC.

He had his D offense practicing against then4-3 when the pats were playing 3-4.

He hoped to win by hoping his opponents would shoot themselves on the foot rather than beat them.

[Mace]

Dick Jauron was the best play not to lose HC.

He had his D offense practicing against then4-3 when the pats were playing 3-4.

He hoped to win by hoping his opponents would shoot themselves on the foot rather than beat them.

Not real sure he was really playing to win either.

Might be that Jauron was the best play to tie HC.

[Typ0]

It's really sad people even want to consider giving Rex Ryan another season. He fired the OC 2 weeks into this season. Think about that. The team still can't communicate effectively because the coaches bog things down.

The last two years we have seen the poorest coached teams in the drought. And you want to be fair and give him another season? He will be gone Terry Pegula has got to be smarter than you guys.

[Arm of Harm]

Most of his overachieving was his own doing.

He was the Rex of the Cover 2...insisting on scheme over personnel.

When he was hired, the Bills were 1 year removed from a top 5 defense. The 2005 defense collapsed in part due to Spike's injury. They lost their heart after that.

but when he came in, instead of replacing a few pieces to the D, he insisted on an overhaul to the Cover 2. Fletcher, Milloy, Adams and Posey were jettisoned...and Spikes demanded a trade a year later.

They were replaced by...3 DB's out of the 1st 4 picks of the 2006 draft, plus John McCargo because he had the look of a 3 tech.

And this defensive overhaul was made at a time when they didn't have a QB, and barely an offensive line.

The bigger guys were replaced by little guys because...in the Cover 2...you want little guys....it didn't matter if they were fast or not, or could play or not. He went for a look...

And it showed..a team that got run over every week.

On offensive, he was content to be in the bottom 5-10 in scoring every year. He ranked above 23rd in scoring once..yes..once..in his 9 year coaching career (Buff and Chicago.)

There's a reason the guy has one winning season in 9 years as a head coach.

They were going nowhere with him.


First, I completely agree with every word you wrote about Jauron. However, I think that 2004 Bills defense tends to be a little overrated.

If I recall correctly, that 2004 defense was top 5 in yards allowed, but not top 5 in points allowed. Second, their good stats were complied largely by beating up on horrible teams, such as Cleveland, while caving to good teams like New England. In fact, I did an analysis of the Bills/Patriots games from 2004. (On the theory that those two games are the most important.) The Bills' defense turned in a below-average performance those two games: they allowed more points per drive than a typical defense the Patriots faced. Part of that is that the 2004 defense was blitz-happy. Blitzing doesn't always work so well when Tom Brady gets rid of the ball incredibly quickly.

I'd also add that not only was that 2004 defense overrated, but by 2005 was starting to become an aging defense. (Part of the reason for the poor showing in 2005.) By the time Tom Donahoe was shown the door, the Bills were a team without a quarterback, without an offensive line, with an uninspiring receiving corps, and with an aging defense which would soon need to be rebuilt.

None of this is intended to excuse the job that Marv did as GM or Jauron did as head coach. Marv said that when you build for the future you're building for someone else's future. That statement might have been correct, at least with respect to the dysfunctional Bills organization. In light of that belief, the Bills focused on "quick impact" players when Marv was there. The goal was to focus on the defense and running game first, on the theory that getting those two things under control would at least raise the team to basic credibility. Marv went into the 2006 draft with the intention of using his first two picks on a SS and a DL, even if there were better players at other positions. Considering the number of needs the Bills had, there was no reason for him to have been focused with such laser-like intensity on those two positions only. But Jauron felt that for his defense to hold its own, he wanted good players at those two positions. Again, the focus was on achieving credibility quickly, not on obtaining the players who had the best long-term upside. Had long-term upside been the objective, the possibility of using the eighth overall pick on Donte Whitner would not even have been mentioned. (At least, not by any competent member of the front office.)

But as bad as Marv Levy was as a general manager, and as bad as Dick Jauron was as a head coach, it's worth pointing out that their usual season was 7-9. This year's Bills team is on pace for an 8-8 season. It's far from obvious that we've significantly improved either the front office or the head coach position compared to what we had in 2006.

[Mace]

From everything I remember, Levy was hired as a figurehead to restore good faith in the organization and link the team with the glory years again. He was said to have "input" in everything vague, but basically only had significant input in the hiring of Jauron. Jauron then had the draft input without being presented as having any control. Marv wasn't a real GM.