Rex is going to stay

[Skooby]

No decisions have been made yet on Rex yet, he's won a few close games.

[THRILLHO]

Well this thread confirms that Rex is indeed gone.

[Ed]

If they win the next two and finish 9-7 I think he gets one more year.

[Novacane]

Go Miami!!

[Novacane]

J E T S. Jets jets jets

[Historian]

There is something to be said for continuity. The Bills are not that far off, still being in the playoff hunt going into the second last week.

The problem is...not far off from what?

Most people are pissed about losing leads to Oakland and Pittsburgh.

I get it.

The games that really piss me off were the openers. Any semblance of offense, and the Bills beat Baltimore. Then they get embarrassed by the Jets on national TV, before pulling their heads out of their butts, and winning four in a row.

It's not a bad team.

It's a mediocre team without a true quarterback.

It's a team with a lot of talent, that is terribly undisciplined.

It's a team that gets decimated annually by injuries.

I'm kinda torn. I would like to see the dip**** twins run out of town, but on the other hand, I don't trust the Bills "brain-trust" to select the best candidate either.

So yea, the Ryans deserve to get the ax, but for what? Another Jauron or Gailey?

After 17 years I've become numb to the whole thing.

[YardRat]

There is something to be said for continuity. The Bills are not that far off, still being in the playoff hunt going into the second last week.

The problem is...not far off from what?

Most people are pissed about losing leads to Oakland and Pittsburgh.

I get it.

The games that really piss me off were the openers. Any semblance of offense, and the Bills beat Baltimore. Then they get embarrassed by the Jets on national TV, before pulling their heads out of their butts, and winning four in a row.

It's not a bad team.

It's a mediocre team without a true quarterback.

It's a team with a lot of talent, that is terribly undisciplined.

It's a team that gets decimated annually by injuries.

I'm kinda torn. I would like to see the dip**** twins run out of town, but on the other hand, I don't trust the Bills "brain-trust" to select the best candidate either.

So yea, the Ryans deserve to get the ax, but for what? Another Jauron or Gailey?

After 17 years I've become numb to the whole thing.

Being 'this close' doesn't count, especially if the topic is only the playoffs, not an actual championship.

Tampa parted ways with the winningest coach in their history, and won the Super Bowl.
Denver split with Fox, who had an overall W-L record of 46-18...and won the Super Bowl.

Wrecks needs to go, but the key is to bring in somebody that can build on what we have and get better, not tear it down once again.
Wrecks had that opportunity, and he blew it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...the only difference between the Bills and Denver in 2015 was they hired a legit coaching staff to replace Fox...we hired a buffoon with a clown car.

[Forward_Lateral]

There is something to be said for continuity. The Bills are not that far off, still being in the playoff hunt going into the second last week.

The problem is...not far off from what?

Most people are pissed about losing leads to Oakland and Pittsburgh.

I get it.

The games that really piss me off were the openers. Any semblance of offense, and the Bills beat Baltimore. Then they get embarrassed by the Jets on national TV, before pulling their heads out of their butts, and winning four in a row.

It's not a bad team.

It's a mediocre team without a true quarterback.

It's a team with a lot of talent, that is terribly undisciplined.

It's a team that gets decimated annually by injuries.

I'm kinda torn. I would like to see the dip**** twins run out of town, but on the other hand, I don't trust the Bills "brain-trust" to select the best candidate either.

So yea, the Ryans deserve to get the ax, but for what? Another Jauron or Gailey?

After 17 years I've become numb to the whole thing.


Here's the issue, IMO:

Everyone knew he was going to blow it up. Everyone was fine with that, until he actually did it. Now that he's got the Defense trending up, and getting players to fit HIS system, you want to fire him and start all over again? No head coach is going to come into a new team and say, OK let's carry on from what the last guy did. Let's also not forget that the team is 7-7, and has had next to nobody healthy on offense for 3/4 of the season. They draft a guy (Shaq Lawson)with their first round pick, who can't play until the season is 3/4 of the way finished. Their best defensive player gets suspended for the first 4 games, then subsequently misses multiple games after that because he's a fat, out of shape turd. They have guys STARTING at safety who were bagging groceries 2 weeks ago.
Rex deserves some blame, yes, because he is the head coach, but he also is undeserving of a lot of blame that he is getting. I'm tired of reading moron Bills fans wanting to fire Rex, and then will ***** about whoever the Bills hire if they don't win instantly.

[Skooby]

If Rex leaves, it would have to be for someone incredible to come aboard with their staff. 2 teams are there now so I don't see a clear path nor would I want a Jeff Fisher lead team.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I don't know what you take on the rift between the Rex and the front office with the story Whaley wants Rex fired after the Steelers game. If the rift exists, then someone gotta go.

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2016/12/buffalo_bills_have.html

[DraftBoy]

Being 'this close' doesn't count, especially if the topic is only the playoffs, not an actual championship.

Tampa parted ways with the winningest coach in their history, and won the Super Bowl.
Denver split with Fox, who had an overall W-L record of 46-18...and won the Super Bowl.

Wrecks needs to go, but the key is to bring in somebody that can build on what we have and get better, not tear it down once again.
Wrecks had that opportunity, and he blew it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...the only difference between the Bills and Denver in 2015 was they hired a legit coaching staff to replace Fox...we hired a buffoon with a clown car.

You really think this team is worth not tearing down and starting over?

[Forward_Lateral]

If Ryan is fired, Whaley better go as well. He can't get along with any head coach that isn't a "yes" man, and kisses his ass. That's why Marrone left, that's why Ryan will get fired. Whaley has a giant ego, and it needs to be axed.

[Forward_Lateral]

You really think this team is worth not tearing down and starting over?
Yes and no. The problem is the team lacks skill at the most important positions--QB and secondary. It's hard to see anybody coming in and winning more than 8-9 games with this roster. They need a QB that can win games if they have to. They need corners and safeties that can cover people consistently.

[SpikedLemonade]

You really think this team is worth not tearing down and starting over?

YES.

It is currently built like a house of cards.

[Historian]

And as usual, slimy-ass Brandon plays both sides of the fence, and will come out out smelling like a rose.

[DraftBoy]

Yes and no. The problem is the team lacks skill at the most important positions--QB and secondary. It's hard to see anybody coming in and winning more than 8-9 games with this roster. They need a QB that can win games if they have to. They need corners and safeties that can cover people consistently.

I'd say they need a lot more than that.

You have key decisions to make at just about every position (except RB) regarding either a starter, depth, or an aging veteran. There is a lot of of work that needs to be done and some very difficult decisions to be made.

Two of the biggest will be do you pay over market value to keep Gilmore and Woods? If you lose both then you've just added a need for two starters that didn't exist before.

- - - Updated - - -


No decisions have been made yet on Rex yet, he's won a few close games.

Nice job hedging your bet. Title the thread like you have something to share and then simply post some completely ambiguous commentary.

[DraftBoy]

And as usual, slimy-ass Brandon plays both sides of the fence, and will come out out smelling like a rose.

Why do people continue to think Brandon is any danger of losing both his jobs when all the evidence points in the other direction?

He's probably the safest person in either organization.

[Forward_Lateral]

Why isn't Whaley being held accountable for the impending roster mess that's going to occur? I don't think it matters who the head coach is, this team is going to be in rebuilding mode, again, this off season

[Historian]

That's my point.

It's his mess...he brought Rex in here, but will not suffer any consequences for it.

[DraftBoy]

Why isn't Whaley being held accountable for the impending roster mess that's going to occur? I don't think it matters who the head coach is, this team is going to be in rebuilding mode, again, this off season

It's not necessarily an impending mess, it's just a lot of decisions to make.

[DraftBoy]

That's my point.

It's his mess...he brought Rex in here, but will not suffer any consequences for it.

There are reports that he did not want to bring Rex in and many people believe this team has the talent to challenge for a playoff spot.

So if the reports are true, then should Whaley not get credit for building a team with the talent to make the playoffs and credit as well for not wanting to bring in a coach that hasn't been able to get the most of that talent?

For the record I'm not defending Whaley either way, I'm playing devil's advocate to a common flaw in group think.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I think the team direction in the last 3 years or so is to do whatever it takes to make playoff quickly. That's why you see the trade-ups, the influx of expensive FAs, the veteran, "proven" coach like Rex, Roman, Rex's brother, etc.

That has clearly failed.

The question now is do you continue that route or think long term and build from draft, kind of like Cleveland is going through. I'm not sure Rex fits that mold of a coach. If they are changing course, there is a lot more changes than just a coach. It could very well being a new team, like Whaley said.

[kishoph]

If they win the next two and finish 9-7 I think he gets one more year.

I think the fans actions have made this decision already. How does Russ Brandon market this team for next season if the plan is to bring Ryan back ?

Will this be the Bills push to sell tickets for next season ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v153/kishoph/Hey%20Bills%20Fans..jpg

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Being 'this close' doesn't count, especially if the topic is only the playoffs, not an actual championship.

Tampa parted ways with the winningest coach in their history, and won the Super Bowl.
Denver split with Fox, who had an overall W-L record of 46-18...and won the Super Bowl.

Dungy had seven years there and Fox had four. If these reports are true, Rex has been getting his job threatened since the beginning of the year and was going to be fired after less then 40 games.


I've said it before, and I'll say it again...the only difference between the Bills and Denver in 2015 was they hired a legit coaching staff to replace Fox...we hired a buffoon with a clown car.

:rofl: The farther we get from 2014 the more that defense gets hyped up. I suppose we could ignore the Hall of Fame QB (injured or not), the pair of elite wideouts, the pair of elite cornerbacks, the pair of elite pass rushers including one of the best defensive players in the NFL, the All-Pro strong safety, but otherwise we're basically the same team.

[Mike13]

Man tits has a habit of screwing my team over, so I wouldnt be suprised if you all win on Sunday and then retain Rex for one more year because he drastically hurts Miami's playoff chances.

[cookie G]

Here's the issue, IMO:

Everyone knew he was going to blow it up. Everyone was fine with that, until he actually did it.

At best, people thought he was competent enough to be successful with the defensive talent he was given.

At best, people believed the line he fed Bills fans (and most likely the Pegula's during the interviews):

"One thing you'll find out about me is that it's not ego-driven. We're not going to definitely play a 3-4 or a 4-3, for that matter. We're going to have in our arsenal the ability to do anything. As an opponent, you've got to prepare for everything because, if not, I'm going to find out what you're not prepared for and I'll attack you appropriately. That's how we play defense. We play defense based on our personnel, not just the scheme. I don't try to put a square peg in a round hole."

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/01/rex_ryan_explains_firing_jim_schwartz_says_buffalo_bills_defense_will_rank_no_1.html

And that's exactly what he did. He spent his first year trying to pound square pegs in round holes.

And it showed one of 2 things:

-he thought he could run the defense with the talent at hand, but isn't smart enough; or

-intended to blow the defense up but lied about it to get the job.

Let me put it this way, you're in the interview room with him. You know this is a team that has spent an enormous amount of effort and money to build the defense. After a decade of trying (we'll go back to 2005),

FINALLY...its built.
FINALLY..it is a top defense in the league.

In comes Rex for an interview.

Do you really think he went in and said.."Well, the D needs an overhaul. It'll take a few years and most of the top draft picks, its going to take a few large steps back and you'll probably have to replace 7-8 of your defensive starters".

I'm not even sure Russ would have hired him if he said anything close to that.

Nobody was "fine" with him blowing up the 4th ranked D in the league.



Now that he's got the Defense trending up, and getting players to fit HIS system, you want to fire him and start all over again?

It is? Based on the Cleveland game?


No head coach is going to come into a new team and say, OK let's carry on from what the last guy did. Let's also not forget that the team is 7-7, and has had next to nobody healthy on offense for 3/4 of the season. They draft a guy (Shaq Lawson)with their first round pick, who can't play until the season is 3/4 of the way finished. Their best defensive player gets suspended for the first 4 games, then subsequently misses multiple games after that because he's a fat, out of shape turd. They have guys STARTING at safety who were bagging groceries 2 weeks ago.
Rex deserves some blame, yes, because he is the head coach, but he also is undeserving of a lot of blame that he is getting. I'm tired of reading moron Bills fans wanting to fire Rex, and then will ***** about whoever the Bills hire if they don't win instantly.[/QUOTE]

With him...it will be a never ending rebuilding. replenishing, retooling and rehashing of the defense, usually to the detriment of the offense.

Despite his major league flub with the defense in 2015, he was given the three top draft picks for the 2016 draft plus the top pick from the 2015 draft, plus the FA's he wanted, plus a plethora of coaches.

Look at his history with the Jets. From 2010 to 2014, defense was always given the top pick, even when he had 2 1st round picks.

He got the groceries he wanted, burned the entree and then complained about the grocery shopper..

Twice.

You can count 3 times when it comes to the Bills.

As far as getting a QB with him as coach..good luck.

There will always be a safety, a cornerback or a 3-4 DE who he's going to want that will take priority.

[justasportsfan]

There is something to be said for continuity. The Bills are not that far off, still being in the playoff hunt going into the second last week.

The problem is...not far off from what?

Most people are pissed about losing leads to Oakland and Pittsburgh.

I get it.

The games that really piss me off were the openers. Any semblance of offense, and the Bills beat Baltimore. Then they get embarrassed by the Jets on national TV, before pulling their heads out of their butts, and winning four in a row.

It's not a bad team.

It's a mediocre team without a true quarterback.

It's a team with a lot of talent, that is terribly undisciplined.

It's a team that gets decimated annually by injuries.

I'm kinda torn. I would like to see the dip**** twins run out of town, but on the other hand, I don't trust the Bills "brain-trust" to select the best candidate either.

So yea, the Ryans deserve to get the ax, but for what? Another Jauron or Gailey?

After 17 years I've become numb to the whole thing.


We should strive for SB.

I remember a lot of people were ok with firing Wade because although we were not making it to the SB, we made playoffs .That wasn't enough for bills fans so we ran him out of town. Now some people are ok with a coach who might just take us to the playoffs?

[Mr. Pink]

We should strive for SB.

I remember a lot of people were ok with firing Wade because although we were not making it to the SB, we made playoffs .That wasn't enough for bills fans so we ran him out of town. Now some people are ok with a coach who might just take us to the playoffs?

When you've gone 17 years without playoffs, the goal should be, first, to get back to meaningful January football.

Once you get back there, somewhat consistently, and if you can't get over the hump, then you should bring someone else in who can.

[Arm of Harm]

Being 'this close' doesn't count, especially if the topic is only the playoffs, not an actual championship.

Tampa parted ways with the winningest coach in their history, and won the Super Bowl.
Denver split with Fox, who had an overall W-L record of 46-18...and won the Super Bowl.

Wrecks needs to go, but the key is to bring in somebody that can build on what we have and get better, not tear it down once again.
Wrecks had that opportunity, and he blew it.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again...the only difference between the Bills and Denver in 2015 was they hired a legit coaching staff to replace Fox...we hired a buffoon with a clown car.

> but the key is to bring in somebody that can build on what we have and get better, not tear it down once again.

I would argue that this team has been in perpetual rebuilding mode for at least the last ten to fifteen years. Upon coming into power, Tom Donahoe quickly replaced the vast majority of players we'd had under Butler. After Marv displaced Donahoe, a large majority of Donahoe's players were quickly replaced. Two or three years after Marv left, few of his acquisitions were still with the team. Today's Bills don't have very many players acquired during the Buddy Nix era or during Russ Brandon's tenure as GM.

Whenever you see a team in perpetual rebuilding mode like this, there are two possible explanations. 1) The team is drafting well, but is failing to retain its draft picks beyond their rookie contracts. The team's draft day successes therefore become dispersed throughout the league. 2) The team is failing to draft well, and is relying largely on free agents. This forces the team into perpetual rebuilding mode because few of the free agents represent long-term solutions.

In order to determine which of these two possibilities is more applicable to the Bills, you look at guys who went on to provide major contributions with other teams after parting ways with us. You look at Antoine Winfield, who had many years of top notch contributions for the Vikings. Or Marshawn Lynch, whose contributions to the Seattle Seahawks were worth more than the fourth and sixth round picks we acquired for having traded him away. Stories like that exist, but they are rare. Very few players went on to provide major contributions to other teams after parting ways with the Bills.

Our perpetual rebuilding mode was forced on us by our failure to acquire sufficient talent in the draft. Doug Whaley has not corrected, and will not correct that failure. This team has very few "building block" players: players who will likely be providing significant contributions five years from now. The dearth of such players means that the Bills are in rebuilding mode, whether we want to be or not. Obviously you don't want to lose what few building block players you have. So you keep Sammy Watkins, Cordy Glenn, etc.

This is a team that hasn't yet found its long-term answers at general manager, head coach, or quarterback. Nor do we have long-term answers at most other positions, whether those positions are in the front office, the coaching staff, or on offense or defense. "Building on what we have" would be a mistake, because what we have right now is a third rate, incompetent football team. Keep what's worth keeping, starting with the building block players. Replace what you know needs replacing, starting with the general manager.

[justasportsfan]

When you've gone 17 years without playoffs, the goal should be, first, to get back to meaningful January football.

Once you get back there, somewhat consistently, and if you can't get over the hump, then you should bring someone else in who can.


You aim for the stars so if you fall short you hit the moon. I don't think the goal of the pats is to win games only to lose the SB.

If you assemble a team made for the SB, you'll consistently be in the playoffs.

[Skooby]

I'd say they need a lot more than that.

You have key decisions to make at just about every position (except RB) regarding either a starter, depth, or an aging veteran. There is a lot of of work that needs to be done and some very difficult decisions to be made.

Two of the biggest will be do you pay over market value to keep Gilmore and Woods? If you lose both then you've just added a need for two starters that didn't exist before.

- - - Updated - - -



Nice job hedging your bet. Title the thread like you have something to share and then simply post some completely ambiguous commentary.
I didn't say I like it, I'm just saying this is setting up for him to stay. Injuries and other excuses look to prevail.

[Mr. Pink]

You aim for the stars so if you fall short you hit the moon. I don't think the goal of the pats is to win games only to lose the SB.

If you assemble a team made for the SB, you'll consistently be in the playoffs.

See, I say you build a team that can make the playoffs. Especially since here there is the Pats to worry about. Brady is the top generational QB, so trying to build a team that's going to beat the Pats regularly is a hard goal. So you build a team that can get you that 5th seed regularly.

Then when you're in the playoffs, you hope for some bounces to go your way so you can reach the ultimate game. Winning a Super Bowl doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a team, on paper, that can get there every year. You just need the talent to make the playoffs and hope your team gets hot at the right time. Look at the Giants, for example. They weren't the best team in the league, they weren't built to be the best team in the league. But they got hot, twice, and were able to beat the Pats in 2 Super Bowls.

When you assemble that roster that can make the playoffs and it's not enough, you do a couple roster tweaks to try and get over the hump. If those moves aren't good enough, then you change the coaching. While the Bengals may make the playoffs pretty regularly with coach-for-live Marvin Lewis, at some point you need to replace that guy who may get you over the hump.

But with how the bad the Bengals were, since I'm using them as an example, the first few years of them making the playoffs was a huge win for their fans and franchise. As it would be here if we could do the same.

[DraftBoy]

I didn't say I like it, I'm just saying this is setting up for him to stay. Injuries and other excuses look to prevail.

That's not what you said or how you titled the thread.

[justasportsfan]

See, I say you build a team that can make the playoffs. Especially since here there is the Pats to worry about. Brady is the top generational QB, so trying to build a team that's going to beat the Pats regularly is a hard goal. So you build a team that can get you that 5th seed regularly.

Then when you're in the playoffs, you hope for some bounces to go your way so you can reach the ultimate game. Winning a Super Bowl doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a team, on paper, that can get there every year. You just need the talent to make the playoffs and hope your team gets hot at the right time. Look at the Giants, for example. They weren't the best team in the league, they weren't built to be the best team in the league. But they got hot, twice, and were able to beat the Pats in 2 Super Bowls.

When you assemble that roster that can make the playoffs and it's not enough, you do a couple roster tweaks to try and get over the hump. If those moves aren't good enough, then you change the coaching. While the Bengals may make the playoffs pretty regularly with coach-for-live Marvin Lewis, at some point you need to replace that guy who may get you over the hump.

But with how the bad the Bengals were, since I'm using them as an example, the first few years of them making the playoffs was a huge win for their fans and franchise. As it would be here if we could do the same.
Agree to disagree. If both BB and Lewis were willing to coach the bills, I would take BB any day. BB has his eye on the SB and Lewis is meh, playoffs. The guy to get you over the hump over a coach like Lewis is a coach like Andy Reid. I'll still take BB over him.

[YardRat]

Dungy had seven years there and Fox had four. If these reports are true, Rex has been getting his job threatened since the beginning of the year and was going to be fired after less then 40 games.
:rofl: The farther we get from 2014 the more that defense gets hyped up. I suppose we could ignore the Hall of Fame QB (injured or not), the pair of elite wideouts, the pair of elite cornerbacks, the pair of elite pass rushers including one of the best defensive players in the NFL, the All-Pro strong safety, but otherwise we're basically the same team.
We had the #4 defense in the league, right there with the Broncos. The best defensive line in the league, period, and a very solid front seven. Manning, and Osweiler, were no more effective last season than Tyrod was, or Orton could have been. Manning threw like a girl for chrissakes, and anybody that wants to argue that the Broncos didn't ride their defense to the title needs to stick to badminton or figure skating.

[YardRat]

You really think this team is worth not tearing down and starting over?

Yes.

The problem isn't talent, it's coaching...and scheme.

We still have the players (especially if we return to a 43 base, which we can) to have a dominant front seven. That will improve the secondary instantly, IMO. All we need is a safety.

Once again we rewind to two seasons ago, and we are in a similar situation...we need a QB, and maybe an olinemen or two. We are stacked at the skill positions. Just like the secondary on the defensive side, a real QB will instantly upgrade Watkins, Woods, Hunter...hell, maybe even Goodwin. Not too mention what it would do for Clay, and opening things up for Shady.

New coaching staff, new QB, a safety and an offensive lineman = playoffs in '17. IMO.

[WagonCircler]

There are reports that he did not want to bring Rex in and many people believe this team has the talent to challenge for a playoff spot.

So if the reports are true, then should Whaley not get credit for building a team with the talent to make the playoffs and credit as well for not wanting to bring in a coach that hasn't been able to get the most of that talent?

For the record I'm not defending Whaley either way, I'm playing devil's advocate to a common flaw in group think.

Read this article and tell me that Whaley assembled a talented roster.:

vhttp://buffalonews.com/2016/12/18/roster-data-shows-bills-gm-doug-whaley-not-building-roster-creating-nfls-biggest-hole/

[WagonCircler]

Yes.

The problem isn't talent,

Horse hockey.

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/18/roster-data-shows-bills-gm-doug-whaley-not-building-roster-creating-nfls-biggest-hole/

[YardRat]

Horse hockey.

http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/18/roster-data-shows-bills-gm-doug-whaley-not-building-roster-creating-nfls-biggest-hole/

Big deal. Tim Graham's opinion doesn't mean much to me.

http://buffalonews.com/2015/01/12/rex-ryan-will-give-buffalo-bills-fans-plenty-believe/


Rex Ryan will give Buffalo Bills, fans plenty to believe in
I'll take my opinion over his anytime, and my disagreeing with the article you linked is not in any way a support for Doug Whaley.

This team has talent, regardless of how they were acquired.

[DraftBoy]

Read this article and tell me that Whaley assembled a talented roster.:

vhttp://buffalonews.com/2016/12/18/roster-data-shows-bills-gm-doug-whaley-not-building-roster-creating-nfls-biggest-hole/

I've read the article and I'm not making the argument that Whaley did or did not build a talented roster. I'm simply supplying a counter to the argument that this team was assembled with enough talent to make the playoffs but the guy who put the talent together is terrible.

[DraftBoy]

Yes.

The problem isn't talent, it's coaching...and scheme.

We still have the players (especially if we return to a 43 base, which we can) to have a dominant front seven. That will improve the secondary instantly, IMO. All we need is a safety.

Once again we rewind to two seasons ago, and we are in a similar situation...we need a QB, and maybe an olinemen or two. We are stacked at the skill positions. Just like the secondary on the defensive side, a real QB will instantly upgrade Watkins, Woods, Hunter...hell, maybe even Goodwin. Not too mention what it would do for Clay, and opening things up for Shady.

New coaching staff, new QB, a safety and an offensive lineman = playoffs in '17. IMO.

Disagree with just about everything here.

The lack of depth on this team at almost every position is frightening.

[YardRat]

Disagree with just about everything here.

The lack of depth on this team at almost every position is frightening.

Depth is an issue for everybody, not just Buffalo.

[DraftBoy]

Depth is an issue for everybody, not just Buffalo.

Really?

Pats don't seem the have that issue, Broncos didn't, Seahawks didn't, Falcons don't.

The depth is an issue for everybody excuse is crap. Championship contending teams don't have depth issues, they have guys 2-3 spots down who are plug and play.

[Arm of Harm]

See, I say you build a team that can make the playoffs. Especially since here there is the Pats to worry about. Brady is the top generational QB, so trying to build a team that's going to beat the Pats regularly is a hard goal. So you build a team that can get you that 5th seed regularly.

Then when you're in the playoffs, you hope for some bounces to go your way so you can reach the ultimate game. Winning a Super Bowl doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a team, on paper, that can get there every year. You just need the talent to make the playoffs and hope your team gets hot at the right time. Look at the Giants, for example. They weren't the best team in the league, they weren't built to be the best team in the league. But they got hot, twice, and were able to beat the Pats in 2 Super Bowls.

When you assemble that roster that can make the playoffs and it's not enough, you do a couple roster tweaks to try and get over the hump. If those moves aren't good enough, then you change the coaching. While the Bengals may make the playoffs pretty regularly with coach-for-live Marvin Lewis, at some point you need to replace that guy who may get you over the hump.

But with how the bad the Bengals were, since I'm using them as an example, the first few years of them making the playoffs was a huge win for their fans and franchise. As it would be here if we could do the same.
If you were to ask which were the top three teams in the AFC, I think you need to talk about the Patriots, the Raiders, and the Chiefs. An argument could be made that teams like Pittsburgh should also be included in this discussion.

Of those teams, which one is the best? That's difficult to say, because they're all at approximately the same high level. Reaching or exceeding that level should be the Bills' goal as well.

The Raiders went 4-12 in 2012, and again in 2013. The Raiders drafted Carr in 2014, after Whaley had passed up the opportunity to do so. The Raiders went 3-13 in 2014, and followed that up with a 7-9 season last year. This year they're at 11-3, with two games yet to be played. Even if you start off with a bad team, like the Raiders had been just two years ago, you can turn yourself into a championship caliber team rather quickly. You draft the right QB, start putting pieces around him, let him get some experience at the NFL level, and before you know it you're 11-3 and vying with the Patriots for home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

Had the Bills been run by competent football personnel, they could have done exactly what we've seen the Raiders do. The Raiders will be my AFC team for this year's postseason, because I see in them what the Bills could and should have been.

[WagonCircler]

Big deal. Tim Graham's opinion doesn't mean much to me..

Tim Graham's article is the opposite of opinion. It's top to bottom hard cold facts. It's math. The bums that Whaley drafts can't even stay with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 17 years.

You may fantasize that there's talent on the Bills' roster, but you're wrong. Unless they're switching over to track and field. Then, sure, they've got sprinters and jumpers. But there's not a collective half gallon of football smarts on the entire roster.

This team's ceiling in 9-7 or 8-8. Same as it ever was. Whaley's a ****ing hack.

[Turf]

Rex's defense will never be good. The game has passed his style. Time to let him go.

[SpikedLemonade]

Rex's defense will never be good. The game has passed his style. Time to let him go.

Rex is useless without having Ray Lewis playing for him.

[YardRat]

Really?

Pats don't seem the have that issue, Broncos didn't, Seahawks didn't, Falcons don't.

The depth is an issue for everybody excuse is crap. Championship contending teams don't have depth issues, they have guys 2-3 spots down who are plug and play.
The Pats are an anomaly under any circumstances. We've already determined Denver won with defense, what starters did they lose for an extended period of time? What starters did the SeaHawks lose? How was Seattle faring when they did have a couple of injuries? The Falcons? Please...that's just hometown talk.

[TacklingDummy]

Really?

Pats don't seem the have that issue, Broncos didn't, Seahawks didn't, Falcons don't.

The depth is an issue for everybody excuse is crap. Championship contending teams don't have depth issues, they have guys 2-3 spots down who are plug and play.

Pats: Have a QB
Broncos: don't have QB, won't make playoffs
Seattle: have a QB
Atlanta: have a QB.

It's a QB league, always has been, always will be.

Without one teams consistently won't be going anywhere, see Buffalo.

[YardRat]

Tim Graham's article is the opposite of opinion. It's top to bottom hard cold facts. It's math. The bums that Whaley drafts can't even stay with a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 17 years.

You may fantasize that there's talent on the Bills' roster, but you're wrong. Unless they're switching over to track and field. Then, sure, they've got sprinters and jumpers. But there's not a collective half gallon of football smarts on the entire roster.

This team's ceiling in 9-7 or 8-8. Same as it ever was. Whaley's a ****ing hack.
Statistics like that aren't definitive of anything, although I admit they are interesting. Not nearly the entire story.

We need QBs...granted.
Charles Clay is an above average TE, O'Leary is decent depth. Both would be better with a QB.
McCoy is a stud, and Gillislee a really good back-up.
Who needs depth at fullback?
Watkins, Woods, Hunter, Goodwin and Lewis would all be better with a QB.
The offensive line has been consistent, despite injuries and shuffling. Has anybody really missed Wood or Glenn while Groy and KuJo have been playing center and LT? No. That's depth.

Worthy and Douzable are good depth, as was Bryant.
LBer is pretty stacked, even with Ragland on the shelf.
Cornerback would be better with a better scheme. See 2014. Gilmore, Darby et al are victims of ****ty coaching as much as anything. NRC. A rookie in Seymour, a former starter in white. That's depth.
Safety is a concern...has been the entire time under Wrecks. Need upgrades there, but again a different system and they would benefit.

Who needs depth at PK, P, and LS? Nobody.

This team has talent, it just isn't being utilized correctly.

[Mace]

I don't know. I don't have any problem concluding we have a shallow roster full of brittle, ineffective draft picks or last gasp vet minimum FA's (some of which are just dandy at the moment), aging core players, poorly assembled, badly coached, inadequately schemed, prone to hugging the cap like we were the Lombardi contender we aren't.

And I don't have any problem believing they won't change a thing for another year of it because that's just what they do whether I like it or not.

I can see the path to the supposedly humbled Rex staying (we're on the cusp, injuries !!!)...."Aww, ok, we'll give him one more year that big lovable zany goof !".

We all know the way this goes, we've been living it for decades.

[YardRat]

Pats: Have a QB
Broncos: don't have QB, won't make playoffs
Seattle: have a QB
Atlanta: have a QB.

It's a QB league, always has been, always will be.

Without one teams consistently won't be going anywhere, see Buffalo.

Put Brady, Wilson or Ryan on this team...with a different coaching staff. Playoffs.

[Mace]

Who needs depth at PK, P, and LS? Nobody.

Whoa here, Mr. Football. Sanborn goes down at LS and we'll know more pain than you've ever seen since he started here 30 years ago. And don't even try to tell me we aren't missing Jordan Gay.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Is there any players' coach winning a superbowl? Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin might be the closest one.

Belichick, Cowher, Coughlin, etc., all are hard nosed coaches preaching discipline. If a player doesn't follow through, he would be benched, traded no matter who he is.

Rex is too much a players' coach.

[Mace]

Is there any players' coach winning a superbowl? Pittsburgh's Mike Tomlin might be the closest one.

Belichick, Cowher, Coughlin, etc., all are hard nosed coaches preaching discipline. If a player doesn't follow through, he would be benched, traded no matter who he is.

Rex is too much a players' coach.

Well, players seem pretty fond of Pete Carroll and Gary Kubiak.

[WagonCircler]

Statistics like that aren't definitive of anything, although I admit they are interesting. Not nearly the entire story.

No, here's one that actually is the entire story: ZERO playoff appearances during Whaley's tenure.

[DraftBoy]

The Pats are an anomaly under any circumstances. We've already determined Denver won with defense, what starters did they lose for an extended period of time? What starters did the SeaHawks lose? How was Seattle faring when they did have a couple of injuries? The Falcons? Please...that's just hometown talk.

Broncos had to overcome Manning's injury; had Clady out for the entire year; TJ Ward and DeMarcus Ware missed games; Emmanuel Sanders, Owen Daniels, Evan Mathis, Luis Vasquez, and Brandon Marshall were consistently banged up as well.

Seahawks lost multiple players for periods of the season including Max Unger, Jeremy Lane, Bobby Wagner, Byron Maxwell, Kevin Williams, and Jordan Hill. Kam Chancellor, and James Carpenter were on the injury report all season long, and the Seahawks had 16 players hit IR in 2014.

Yea...playing without Julio Jones, Mohammed Sanu is no big deal. Neither is losing your #1 CB, most versatile DL, starting MLB and starting TE to IR.

[Arm of Harm]

Put Brady, Wilson or Ryan on this team...with a different coaching staff. Playoffs.


You could say the same thing about the Bills of 2004. That team went 9-7. One more win and they would have been in the playoffs. An upgrade at the QB position could probably have gotten them that win.

The 2004 Bills were poor in terms of draft talent, rich in terms of free agent acquisitions. Much like the Bills of 2016.

In 2005 the Bills went 5-11. Granted some of that was because of injuries. But for the most part, the dramatic drop in their record was because they got old, fast. The 2004 Bills were a bit like a stock market bubble, and the 2005 version was like the bubble bursting. The 2016 Bills are also like that stock market bubble, because this current team also has little talent acquired through the draft. (And some of that talent, such as Kyle Williams, is getting long in the tooth.) Will the 2017 season see the burst of this bubble? Time will tell, and a lot will depend on Doug Whaley's ability to use free agency to find new Band-Aid solutions to replace the ones he'll be losing.

[TacklingDummy]

Put Brady, Wilson or Ryan on this team...with a different coaching staff. Playoffs.

We would be a playoff team with any head coach in the league if we had any of those QBs, including Rex.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

We had the #4 defense in the league, right there with the Broncos. The best defensive line in the league, period

Ok, let's talk about them. In 2014, we had the best DL in the league. Since then, Rex has had them all on the field at the same time for only five games. Five of the 30 he's coached. Schwartz had 15 games in his one season.


Manning, and Osweiler, were no more effective last season than Tyrod was, or Orton could have been. Manning threw like a girl for chrissakes, and anybody that wants to argue that the Broncos didn't ride their defense to the title needs to stick to badminton or figure skating.

How many times just this season have you wanted a QB to come in, move the sticks a few times, and give the defense a rest? Even at his worst, Manning could still put together a long enough drive to give his D time to recoup. Tyrod and McCoy are homerun hitters, either they get a big play or they fizzle out. It halso helps that they have Sanders and Thomas, who can make contested catches and actually stay on the field.

You also, naturally, ignored Denver's secondary with it's 3 All-Pros under 30 and glossed over Ware and Miller who are both likely bound for the Hall of Fame. Of those five (Miller, Ware, Harris, Talib, Ward) is there a single Bill you'd take over them?

All of this is just to say that Denver was in no way in the same position. They were a year removed from the best offense in NFL history for chrissakes.

[Typ0]

We need a coach and GM who will work together to get the best talent and then use that talent on the field. I don't think we have that in place right now. Rex Ryan can get guys playing together and make some wins but we continue to see evidence of coaching slowing the team down. It's just not OK for the coaches to have trouble translating what they want to do to the players: it's not going to work. Compounding the problem the league seems to be headed towards more turnover instead of less on an NFL roster. I am having a tough time determining where Tyrod Taylor is at right now but not Rex Ryan. As far as our GM it's kinda difficult to tell if he is part of the problem or not.

If the decision is Ryan stays then he will be here for a few more years as well while they search for the shut down corner instead of a QB. In the end coaches who are so brilliant no one can understand them, including their own players, have proven a considerable obstacle to winning games during these 17 years. I so want to be wrong as the Ryan's are a good fit for Buffalo in so many ways. It's going to be a long haul to get them the right personnel and then a lot of cries from the players about their need to execute things that no one seems to be able to do.

[Mr. Pink]

If you were to ask which were the top three teams in the AFC, I think you need to talk about the Patriots, the Raiders, and the Chiefs. An argument could be made that teams like Pittsburgh should also be included in this discussion.

Of those teams, which one is the best? That's difficult to say, because they're all at approximately the same high level. Reaching or exceeding that level should be the Bills' goal as well.

The Raiders went 4-12 in 2012, and again in 2013. The Raiders drafted Carr in 2014, after Whaley had passed up the opportunity to do so. The Raiders went 3-13 in 2014, and followed that up with a 7-9 season last year. This year they're at 11-3, with two games yet to be played. Even if you start off with a bad team, like the Raiders had been just two years ago, you can turn yourself into a championship caliber team rather quickly. You draft the right QB, start putting pieces around him, let him get some experience at the NFL level, and before you know it you're 11-3 and vying with the Patriots for home field advantage throughout the playoffs.

Had the Bills been run by competent football personnel, they could have done exactly what we've seen the Raiders do. The Raiders will be my AFC team for this year's postseason, because I see in them what the Bills could and should have been.

Well the best team is the Pats.

But on any given sunday when teams are all good, anyone can beat anyone.

The Raiders seem to be limping into the playoffs, so it wouldn't surprise me if they had a quick exit. I'd give an equal chance to the Steelers and Chiefs beating them since they're both seeming to peak at the right time.

Although if I had to put money on a Super Bowl matchup right now I'd say Pats vs Giants...again.

[Mr. Pink]

Put Brady, Wilson or Ryan on this team...with a different coaching staff. Playoffs.

Even with this coaching staff, the Bills would make the playoffs with one of those three QBs.

Of course, if the Bills originally drafted Tom Brady, Gregg would like still be here.

[bob86]

A friend of mine who was head of human resources for a large company once told me almost all personnel decisions are based on two criteria---production and personality.

If employee has a history of missing production targets, then he better have a convincing explanation of what went wrong and why it won’t happen in the future. As my friend said, we can hire anybody to do a bad job. Or, as they say in football, anyone can coach a team to a loss. The harder production decision comes when an employee has been pretty good in the past, but there is evidence that the employee is slipping, or cannot keep up with fluctuations in his field. Times change, technology emerges, methods evolve and if the employee can’t keep up, then even if he has done a good job in the past, it may be necessary to move on.

More often than not production related personnel decisions are pretty clear; personality related issues on the other hand tend to be much harder and less clean. That is not to say all personality related issues are tough decisions, sexual harassment, stealing, leaking information, fighting, and repeated violations of company rules will get someone fired no matter how good his production has been.

Other personality related issues can be lumped into the general notion that some employees just can’t get along with one and other. “Creative tension” is good in theory but it is hard to have a productive workplace where everyone is alternating between fighting and not talking to each other.

My friend had three general factors in deciding who should go where employees could not work together:

1. Retain the employee who is most valuable and hardest to replace for company. (for instance, in a software company, you would let the bookkeeper go and keep the coder)
2. Everything else being equal, retain the employee with better production history.
3. Lastly let the employee who has a history of issues with other employees go first. Some employees just have a habit of having disagreements with just about everyone they work with, once you see this pattern emerge, it is time to move on from the employee because these types of things are rarely the result of coincidence and can ruin a company.

[WagonCircler]

A friend of mine who was head of human resources for a large company once told me almost all personnel decisions are based on two criteria---production and personality.

If employee has a history of missing production targets, then he better have a convincing explanation of what went wrong and why it won’t happen in the future. As my friend said, we can hire anybody to do a bad job. Or, as they say in football, anyone can coach a team to a loss. The harder production decision comes when an employee has been pretty good in the past, but there is evidence that the employee is slipping, or cannot keep up with fluctuations in his field. Times change, technology emerges, methods evolve and if the employee can’t keep up, then even if he has done a good job in the past, it may be necessary to move on.

More often than not production related personnel decisions are pretty clear; personality related issues on the other hand tend to be much harder and less clean. That is not to say all personality related issues are tough decisions, sexual harassment, stealing, leaking information, fighting, and repeated violations of company rules will get someone fired no matter how good his production has been.

Other personality related issues can be lumped into the general notion that some employees just can’t get along with one and other. “Creative tension” is good in theory but it is hard to have a productive workplace where everyone is alternating between fighting and not talking to each other.

My friend had three general factors in deciding who should go where employees could not work together:

1. Retain the employee who is most valuable and hardest to replace for company. (for instance, in a software company, you would let the bookkeeper go and keep the coder)
2. Everything else being equal, retain the employee with better production history.
3. Lastly let the employee who has a history of issues with other employees go first. Some employees just have a habit of having disagreements with just about everyone they work with, once you see this pattern emerge, it is time to move on from the employee because these types of things are rarely the result of coincidence and can ruin a company.

So, what's your point? And who in this organization is even remotely hard to replace? I'll make you a list:

1. The Billionaire (and I suppose, his wife)
2. Nobody Else

And please don't say Russ Brandon. Any half-wit with a business degree could do his job. Selling football to football crazy WNYers who love tailgating more than they love their family dogs is not a tall order.

Doug Whaley could be replaced by an empty beer can.

Rex Ryan is just a placeholder until the next desperate HC candidate who knows the good teams don't want him comes to town.

Creative tension was in full bloom when Bill Polian was in town, and this team went to four straight Super Bowls and played in 5 out of 6 consecutive AFC Championship games.

Ask your Human Resources friend what the plan is when everyone in your company sucks.

[Skooby]

Some of you act like winning is so easy for some teams but in reality, we're fighting very talented evaluators for a limited pool of talent. The Bills previous major successes was based and can solely be attributed on the coming and going of one man for the job, Bill Polian. The Bills have had very limited success since he left, we can all thank Ralph for losing his mind and thinking his existence was the reason for the Bills success. It wasn't and Ralph's inability to say sorry has set the franchise back ~decades, including but not limited too leaving legacy tards like Russ.

Terry needs to man up and dump the entire Front office and coaching staff, like instantly. Insanity is keeping the same losers around and expecting a different result. If 7-9 to 9-7 is the desired different result, mission accomplished. Your a multi-Billionaire, don't pull a punch and make the expensive choice while sparing no expense. Please.

P.S. Anybody telling me what I meant can go F-themselves.

[Forward_Lateral]

Disagree with just about everything here.

The lack of depth on this team at almost every position is frightening.

My God. Thank you. Why doesn't anyone want to acknowledge this? Why is it Rex's fault that there's 2 guys STARTING at safety that were bagging groceries a couple of weeks ago, and have no business on an NFL field? Why is it Rex's fault that 2 supposed stud corners couldn't cover dog poop if they were a blanket? Why is it Rex's fault that the best player on the Defense missed half of the season due to suspension, and subsequently being a fat, out of shape turd? Why is it Rex's fault he has nobody capable of replacing all of those aforementioned players? Not to mention drafting a guy who needed shoulder surgery, and everyone on earth knew it, except for the Bills' Brass.

Rex is taking 100% of the blame. Whaley is skating away laughing. It's complete BS. All of this organizations problems stem from the top. If this team had a competent QB that could pass the freaking ball, it would have 9-10 wins right now, and Rex would be a genius.

The fact that they are 7-7 with all of the injuries and piss poor offensive play, is a miracle. Not many NFL coaches could do better at this point. Is Rex a good coach? I don't know. I do know this, if they finish 9-7 or 8-8, it will be the first time in 17 years that they have had back to back non-losing seasons.

Do we really want to go through another rebuild? Because that's what's going to happen if Rex is fired. Whoever comes in, is going to tear the entire team apart, and we likely have to suffer through the same 2-3 season cycle, and be back here saying woulda, coulda shouldas again.

[Forward_Lateral]

Put Brady, Wilson or Ryan on this team...with a different coaching staff. Playoffs.

What? Put any good passing QB on this team, and it has 9 or 10 wins right now, with Rex as coach.

[Historian]

A friend of mine who was head of human resources for a large company once told me almost all personnel decisions are based on two criteria---production and personality.



All that crap is the reason the entire country is in the ****ter....

[Arm of Harm]

Well the best team is the Pats.

But on any given sunday when teams are all good, anyone can beat anyone.

The Raiders seem to be limping into the playoffs, so it wouldn't surprise me if they had a quick exit. I'd give an equal chance to the Steelers and Chiefs beating them since they're both seeming to peak at the right time.

Although if I had to put money on a Super Bowl matchup right now I'd say Pats vs Giants...again.



The Raiders have a very good offense, but a bottom ten pass defense, and a bottom ten overall defense. Maybe you're right. Maybe they will have a quick exit. (Although I personally suspect they'll make it to the conference championship game.) But if they do exit quickly, I'm sure that if they make a few good, solid additions to their defense in the 2017 draft, they'll be able to come back even stronger next year. The Raiders are a team on the rise, and there's nothing to suggest that this year represents their long-term ceiling. They're what the Bills could have been, if we'd hired their GM (whoever he is), instead of Doug Whaley.

[trapezeus]

it's not even a debate for me if rex, whaley and Brandon need to leave. it's a package deal. you could do worse than what we have now, but then we'd finally have higher picks to build on. we'd finally have a gm who doesn't trade multiple picks each year and can start the process to build up. you would not have a meddling smithers character who adds no value but sells it to the 2 or 3 people that matter.

if this was the sabres, and people were like, bylsma sucks and GMTM is over rated, let's can them. I would say no way. they may not have proven anything yet, but we went through a long rebuild to get pieces we wanted. they've done a good job so far, and pulling the plug in the middle is insane. you can't use that argument for rex. we know exactly what we have in him. You can't use that for whaley. we know exactly what we have in him. and you can't use that for Brandon because he's been here almost 20 years. we know what we have in him.

I can't believe we are 4 pages in trying to rationalize keeping this rag tag team of idiots. we have a coach who has lost games he's won plenty of times in his two years (KC, Miami and Oakland come to mind without looking back), we have a GM who can't find a qb and doesn't make it a priority (EJ was only picked because buddy got caught trashing fitz) and Brandon is such a distraction that actual football people don't want to be here.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The Raiders have a very good offense, but a bottom ten pass defense, and a bottom ten overall defense. Maybe you're right. Maybe they will have a quick exit. (Although I personally suspect they'll make it to the conference championship game.) But if they do exit quickly, I'm sure that if they make a few good, solid additions to their defense in the 2017 draft, they'll be able to come back even stronger next year. The Raiders are a team on the rise, and there's nothing to suggest that this year represents their long-term ceiling. They're what the Bills could have been, if we'd hired their GM (whoever he is), instead of Doug Whaley.

No doubt they drafted well in the last 3 years. But they also tanked bad which allowed them to draft 4th and 5th overall for two consecutive years. In the aforementioned two years, they got a looked-to-be franchise QB, a #1 receiver, an everyday TE, and an entire LB corp. That's a very good job.

If you ask anyone, the #1 receiver, and #1 LB they got in those years is a competitive GM should be able to do and I believe Whaley is in that category as well (Watkins, by draft position alone, probably is better than the 4th pick overall slot). But what put them over the top is the Carr pick. I will admit there is some luck involved in Carr pick but a great GM needs to hit once in awhile, something I yet to see from Whaley.

[justasportsfan]

Really?

Pats don't seem the have that issue, Broncos didn't, Seahawks didn't, Falcons don't.

The depth is an issue for everybody excuse is crap. Championship contending teams don't have depth issues, they have guys 2-3 spots down who are plug and play.
It's coaching. Alan Branch couldn't even make it to the bills team and ended up starting for the Pats. Another crappy bills player according to some people here is Hogan. He's not too shabby under BB. So there is talent and depth here on this team, our coach just doesn't know how to use them.

This was also proven from Schwartz to Rex. There was talent here under Schwartz because he knew how to use it. That talent disappeared under Rex. Hughes most especially.

I am almost 100% that if BB became our HC tomorrow, this team would be in the playoffs next year.