25 drafted players on the team

[X-Era]

The story reads that we're dead last in the league at having our drafted players still on our roster.

On the surface that seems to be a woeful job by Whaley.

But, should we not be trying to upgrade at every opportunity? If we replace a lower round player with someone elses draftee and it ends up being a solid player for us is that not whats best for the team?

Jerel Worthy, Corbin Bryant are just a few that come to mind. We should keep Tony Steward over Zack Brown? We should have kept Karlos Williams? Really? Kiko was traded for McCoy. Great move. Whaley, by my count has lost a total of 4 picks on his watch, Karlos, Steward, Cyril, Cockrell. Cyril just sucked. Cockrell starts for the Steelers but he never looked like a starter here. Still id have to concede that move.

The goal is to have the best roster possible. If releasing your own draftees and replacing them with better players does that then thats a win. We should always be scanning the wire to upgrade backups and our PS. Frankly I glad if we let our draftees go to get better players.

[EDS]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

The story reads that we're dead last in the league at having our drafted players still on our roster.

On the surface that seems to be a woeful job by Whaley.

But, should we not be trying to upgrade at every opportunity? If we replace a lower round player with someone elses draftee and it ends up being a solid player for us is that not whats best for the team?

Jerel Worthy, Corbin Bryant are just a few that come to mind. We should keep Tony Steward over Zack Brown? We should have kept Karlos Williams? Really? Kiko was traded for McCoy. Great move. Whaley, by my count has lost a total of 4 picks on his watch, Karlos, Steward, Cyril, Cockrell. Cyril just sucked. Cockrell starts for the Steelers but he never looked like a starter here. Still id have to concede that move.

The goal is to have the best roster possible. If releasing your own draftees and replacing them with better players does that then thats a win. We should always be scanning the wire to upgrade backups and our PS. Frankly I glad if we let our draftees go to get better players.

Draft picks, particularly non first rounders are cheap. As such, building out a roster with draft picks allows a team to spend money to retain key free agents. If you are unable to draft properly you end up spending more in free agency which results in salary cap issues. That is why they need to pay a guy like Jordan Mills twice as much as draft pick.

It is all about roster management. The Bills are terrible at it and the fact that they have relatively few players signed to contracts for next season suggests they will need to dive deep into the free agent pool again, perpetuating the problem.

[X-Era]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

Draft picks, particularly non first rounders are cheap. As such, building out a roster with draft picks allows a team to spend money to retain key free agents. If you are unable to draft properly you end up spending more in free agency which results in salary cap issues. That is why they need to pay a guy like Jordan Mills twice as much as draft pick.

It is all about roster management. The Bills are terrible at it and the fact that they have relatively few players signed to contracts for next season suggests they will need to dive deep into the free agent pool again, perpetuating the problem.

Yet we resign our own and have adequate cap room every year. I dont want cheap crap if it comes at the cost of wins. Spend the cap room. Always upgrade. None of the players let go were worth much. Keeping crap because its cheap is ridiculous.

[Jaybird]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

It's a product of many variables. Yes you want to upgrade the roster. However, the small market, consistent losing also plays a big part. Players don't want to stay, systems change often, and that leads to change

[X-Era]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

It's a product of many variables. Yes you want to upgrade the roster. However, the small market, consistent losing also plays a big part. Players don't want to stay, systems change often, and that leads to change

Huh? Weve had better rettention under Whaley than in previous regimes. Players do stay.

[The Jokeman]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

The story reads that we're dead last in the league at having our drafted players still on our roster.

On the surface that seems to be a woeful job by Whaley.

But, should we not be trying to upgrade at every opportunity? If we replace a lower round player with someone elses draftee and it ends up being a solid player for us is that not whats best for the team?

Jerel Worthy, Corbin Bryant are just a few that come to mind. We should keep Tony Steward over Zack Brown? We should have kept Karlos Williams? Really? Kiko was traded for McCoy. Great move. Whaley, by my count has lost a total of 4 picks on his watch, Karlos, Steward, Cyril, Cockrell. Cyril just sucked. Cockrell starts for the Steelers but he never looked like a starter here. Still id have to concede that move.

The goal is to have the best roster possible. If releasing your own draftees and replacing them with better players does that then thats a win. We should always be scanning the wire to upgrade backups and our PS. Frankly I glad if we let our draftees go to get better players.

Here's a list of our draft picks since Whaley was named GM in May of 2013. In bold are guys on the current 53 man roster, Italics are guys still part of team whether it be on IR or PS etc.

Shaq Lawson
Reggie Ragland
Adolphus Washington
Cardale Jones
Jonathan Williams
Kolby Listenbee
Kevon Seymour
Ronald Darby
John Miller
Karlos Williams
Tony Steward
Nick O'Leary
Dezmin Lewis
Sammy Watkins
Cyrus Kouandjio
Preston Brown
Ross Cockrell
Cyril Richardson
Randell Johnson
Seantrel Henderson

15/20 = 75%

Let's compare that to another GM who earned his position in 2013, Steve Keim of the Arizona Cardinals. Of note he was named GM in 5 months before Whaley and named Executive of the Year in 2013 but again only going to compare draft classes since 2014 and who remains on their roster for this comparison.


Robert Nkemdiche
Brandon Williams
Evan Boehm
Marqui Christian
Cole Toner
Harlan Miller
D.J. Humphries
Markus Golden
David Johnson
Rodney Gunter
Shaquille Riddick
J.J. Nelson
Gerald Christian
Deone Bucannon
Troy Niklas
Kareem Martin
John Brown
Logan Thomas
Ed Stinson
Walt Powell

15/20 = 75%

and what about the Green Bay Packers who are well known as a team that builds within?


Kenny Clark
Jason Spriggs
Kyler Fackrell
Blake Martinez
Deon Lowry
Trevor Davis
Kyle Murphy
Damarious Randall
Quinten Rollins
Ty Montgomery
Jake Ryan
Brett Hundley
Aaron Ripkowski
Christian Ringo
Kennard Backman
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Davante Adams
Khyri Thornton
Richard Rodgers
Carl Bradford
Corey Linsley
Jared Abbrederis
Demetri Goodson
Jeff Janis

18/24= 75%

and lastly one of the top 3 GMs in recent memory; the Seattle Seahawks


Germain Ifedi
Jarran Reed
C.J. Prosise
Nick Vannett
Rees Odhiambo
Quinton Jefferson
Alex Collins
Joey Hunt
Zac Brooks
Frank Clark
Tyler Lockett
Terry Poole
Mark Glowinski
Tye Smith
Obum Gwachum
Kristjan Sokoli
Ryan Murphy
Paul Richardson
Justin Britt
Cassius Marsh
Kevin Norwood
Kevin Pierre-Louis
Garrett Scott
Eric Pinkins
Kiero Small

14/25= 56%

Is Whaley really doing that bad at drafting when compare him to his counterparts?

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

Its not exactly shocking that we have fewer of our own drafteea when we change schemes every season or two.

[EDS]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

Here's a list of our draft picks since Whaley was named GM in May of 2013. In bold are guys on the current 53 man roster, Italics are guys still part of team whether it be on IR or PS etc.

Shaq Lawson
Reggie Ragland
Adolphus Washington
Cardale Jones
Jonathan Williams
Kolby Listenbee
Kevon Seymour
Ronald Darby
John Miller
Karlos Williams
Tony Steward
Nick O'Leary
Dezmin Lewis
Sammy Watkins
Cyrus Kouandjio
Preston Brown
Ross Cockrell
Cyril Richardson
Randell Johnson
Seantrel Henderson

15/20 = 75%

Let's compare that to another GM who earned his position in 2013, Steve Keim of the Arizona Cardinals. Of note he was named GM in 5 months before Whaley and named Executive of the Year in 2013 but again only going to compare draft classes since 2014 and who remains on their roster for this comparison.


Robert Nkemdiche
Brandon Williams
Evan Boehm
Marqui Christian
Cole Toner
Harlan Miller
D.J. Humphries
Markus Golden
David Johnson
Rodney Gunter
Shaquille Riddick
J.J. Nelson
Gerald Christian
Deone Bucannon
Troy Niklas
Kareem Martin
John Brown
Logan Thomas
Ed Stinson
Walt Powell

15/20 = 75%

and what about the Green Bay Packers who are well known as a team that builds within?


Kenny Clark
Jason Spriggs
Kyler Fackrell
Blake Martinez
Deon Lowry
Trevor Davis
Kyle Murphy
Damarious Randall
Quinten Rollins
Ty Montgomery
Jake Ryan
Brett Hundley
Aaron Ripkowski
Christian Ringo
Kennard Backman
Ha Ha Clinton-Dix
Davante Adams
Khyri Thornton
Richard Rodgers
Carl Bradford
Corey Linsley
Jared Abbrederis
Demetri Goodson
Jeff Janis

18/24= 75%

and lastly one of the top 3 GMs in recent memory; the Seattle Seahawks


Germain Ifedi
Jarran Reed
C.J. Prosise
Nick Vannett
Rees Odhiambo
Quinton Jefferson
Alex Collins
Joey Hunt
Zac Brooks
Frank Clark
Tyler Lockett
Terry Poole
Mark Glowinski
Tye Smith
Obum Gwachum
Kristjan Sokoli
Ryan Murphy
Paul Richardson
Justin Britt
Cassius Marsh
Kevin Norwood
Kevin Pierre-Louis
Garrett Scott
Eric Pinkins
Kiero Small

14/25= 56%

Is Whaley really doing that bad at drafting when compare him to his counterparts?

Comparing the Bills draft results and draft retention versus three team teams that, over the reference period, have been playoff teams and have drafted much later in the draft makes sense. It absolutely should not be relevant that these playoff teams have greater competition for roster spots given their far superior results.

[The Jokeman]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

Comparing the Bills draft results and draft retention versus three team teams that, over the reference period, have been playoff teams and have drafted much later in the draft makes sense. It absolutely should not be relevant that these playoff teams have greater competition for roster spots given their far superior results.

Okay how about another middling team like the Philly Eagles then?


Carson Wentz
Isaac Seumalo
Wendell Smallwood
Halapoulivaati Vaitai
Blake Countess
Jalen Mills
Alex McCalister
Joe Walker
Nelson Agholor
Eric Rowe
Jordan Hicks
JaCorey Shepherd
Randall Evans
Marcus Smith
Jordan Matthews
Josh Huff
Jaylen Watkins
Taylor Hart
Ed Reynolds
Beau Allen
13/20 = 65%

[Jimkelly12203]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

There is absolutely nothing impressive about our drafting. Nothing at all!

[The Jokeman]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

There is absolutely nothing impressive about our drafting. Nothing at all!

It's average at best yet some people want to call it completely dreadful, which it is not. Yet as eluded to earlier Whaley has been above average in bringing in outside talent.

[Jimkelly12203]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

It's average at best yet some people want to call it completely dreadful, which it is not. Yet as eluded to earlier Whaley has been above average in bringing in outside talent.

We've done pretty well in FA. But it's also a testament to drafting poorly when you need to spend more money on FAs. It's not cost effective as has been pointed out.

The revelation that our scouting department does not scout players until they are coming out to the draft is pretty disturbing. It's not in line with league-wide practices. I think we have a tendency to be lazy and draft players from big SEC football player factory schools to keep selling that hype-train. But we lack the organizational discipline to make good of these guys.

I honestly think Carr or Wilson would be disasters here. Even if we drafted a good player what kind of a place is this to groom them and make them into the best player they can be?

[DesertFox24]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

I have two problems with Whaley.

1. I do not think he nor buddy nix have drafted enough QBs since either of their reigns have begun.

Other than that what he does has not really bothered me, he is hindered from constant coaching changes and having to build up to suit whatever new system we are doing. Another poster pointed out that is a problem for prolonged drafting success and it should be pointed out.

2. I did not have any other major issues until today. Doug Whaley should have come out yesterday and talked about Rex firing and that they are going to play EJ this game. To throw Lynn like that to media without him coming out shows very little accountability on his behalf and makes him look like a coward.

I get the impression he is the guy who is always trying to defend himself, but when the camera comes on he acts like a straight shooter who does and says the correct things.

I am very disappointed in the Buffalo Bills organization today and embarrased to call myself a fan.

I am was born in San Diego (Dad Navy) and live in Reno NV and I am sort of glad my son likes the future LA Chargers more. He routes for the bills as well but I would not wish these past 17 years on my worst enemy and the outlook is even dimmer.

We are the laughing stock of the league.

- - - Updated - - -

We've done pretty well in FA. But it's also a testament to drafting poorly when you need to spend more money on FAs. It's not cost effective as has been pointed out.

The revelation that our scouting department does not scout players until they are coming out to the draft is pretty disturbing. It's not in line with league-wide practices. I think we have a tendency to be lazy and draft players from big SEC football player factory schools to keep selling that hype-train. But we lack the organizational discipline to make good of these guys.

I honestly think Carr or Wilson would be disasters here. Even if we drafted a good player what kind of a place is this to groom them and make them into the best player they can be?

To be fair besides Mario Williams who have we broke the bank for that we did not draft.

[The Jokeman]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

We've done pretty well in FA. But it's also a testament to drafting poorly when you need to spend more money on FAs. It's not cost effective as has been pointed out.

The revelation that our scouting department does not scout players until they are coming out to the draft is pretty disturbing. It's not in line with league-wide practices. I think we have a tendency to be lazy and draft players from big SEC football player factory schools to keep selling that hype-train. But we lack the organizational discipline to make good of these guys.

I honestly think Carr or Wilson would be disasters here. Even if we drafted a good player what kind of a place is this to groom them and make them into the best player they can be?

and who gets the blame for the grooming process? the GM or the coach. I go with the latter and considering Taylor, Darby, O'Leary, Brown or Henderson develop since Rex got here, I think it wise to let him go first.

[The Jokeman]

Re: 25 drafted players on the team

I have two problems with Whaley.

1. I do not think he nor buddy nix have drafted enough QBs since either of their reigns have begun.

Other than that what he does has not really bothered me, he is hindered from constant coaching changes and having to build up to suit whatever new system we are doing. Another poster pointed out that is a problem for prolonged drafting success and it should be pointed out.

2. I did not have any other major issues until today. Doug Whaley should have come out yesterday and talked about Rex firing and that they are going to play EJ this game. To throw Lynn like that to media without him coming out shows very little accountability on his behalf and makes him look like a coward.

I get the impression he is the guy who is always trying to defend himself, but when the camera comes on he acts like a straight shooter who does and says the correct things.

I am very disappointed in the Buffalo Bills organization today and embarrased to call myself a fan.

I am was born in San Diego (Dad Navy) and live in Reno NV and I am sort of glad my son likes the future LA Chargers more. He routes for the bills as well but I would not wish these past 17 years on my worst enemy and the outlook is even dimmer.

We are the laughing stock of the league.

- - - Updated - - -


To be fair besides Mario Williams who have we broke the bank for that we did not draft.

Who has been out there that was worth breaking the bank on outside of Mario? Elite talent rarely moves in the NFL. We need to find coaches, like Schwartz did, that can get what they have produce at a high level by fitting a system around the players.