This team is an utter embarrassment, this is a new low in the franchise

[Dr. Lecter]

These past few weeks/month are marking a new low point in the relatively low history of this team.

Let's look back at the recent history of the team

Rex Ryan, like him or not, was crapped on by this team and the management. Somebody in the front office starts to leak word that his time is coming to an end with the team still alive for the playoffs. But the word gets out anyway that he is about to be gone. Nobody in team management (Pegula, Brandon, Whaley, etc) makes any comments. Nothing. Not even the routine "He's our coach and we are sticking by him." type of comments that are made. This ends up completely undermining any authority that he has and all it does is make it even more difficult for him to succeed. This is NOT a defense of Ryan or a request for him to stay. But this is not the way to treat your coach. Either show your support for the coach or (better yet) stop the leaks like this. Maybe even both would work!!)

Now we have this week's actions. Rex Ryan gets fired. First the team announces it on Twitter and does not even meet with the team or any of it's leaders. So players like Kyle Williams, Tyrod Taylor, Eric Wood and LeSean McCoy don't even garner the respect to be told by the team.
After the firing do any of these "leaders" have the courage to talk to the media? No. Of course not. Instead they send out the new interim coach, who is holding what is essentially his first press conference to answer the slew of questions that anybody with half of a brain could see coming. Many of those are not ones he should answer, but the media has no other place to turn to. So now he gets to set up and look like a fool because he is put in a position where success was not a practical option.

So now we know that EJ starting is a "business" decision. Which makes it impossible for him to accomplish anything. It also lets Tyrod know where he stands. It permeates down to other players and potential players who might want to come here who now think that this organization has no respect for anybody who works for the franchise, as long as they can cover their asses.

This team needs to have a complete cleaning. I am fine with Rex leaving - especially after Sunday. But in reality, he should have stayed over Brandon, Overdorf, and Whaley (the man who can't get along with head coaches and doesn't want to pay attention to their roster ideas) (and probably Taylor, but that's another discussion)

Right now, this team is the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of pro sports. In attempt to pretend that the leadership is serious about changing this perception heads need to be chopped.

Now.

It makes it impossible to get excited for anything they do and to want to spend my money at New Era Field next year and in the future. The way this team is run is utterly unprofessional and should embarrass all fans.

[YardRat]

I don't think you're going to get too many responses that will completely disagree a total cleansing is in order, but let's face facts...the 'new low' was put into motion when they hired a ****ing buffoon two seasons ago to begin with.

[bleve]

^^^
Somebody email this to Terry P.

[Mr. Pink]

The organization made Anthony Lynn look completely inept. Hopefully this doesn't hurt his future job chances but after that I can't see why anyone, including the Bills, could seriously look at him being an NFL coach.

Whaley and Pegula should have both been at this presser and the questions about Tyrod and the situation in general with respect to Rex should have been handled by either Whaley, Pegula or both and not Lynn.

Lynn was hung out to dry and it makes everyone, especially ownership, look even more inept than he did himself.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't think you're going to get too many responses that will completely disagree a total cleansing is in order, but let's face facts...the 'new low' was put into motion when they hired a ****ing buffoon two seasons ago to begin with.

He was/is far from the biggest problem with this team.

They hired a coach who led a team to two AFC championship games with Mark ****ing Sanchez at QB.

I know you hate the guy, but try to think past the irrational hatred for a few seconds.

[The King]

These past few weeks/month are marking a new low point in the relatively low history of this team.

Let's look back at the recent history of the team

Rex Ryan, like him or not, was crapped on by this team and the management. Somebody in the front office starts to leak word that his time is coming to an end with the team still alive for the playoffs. But the word gets out anyway that he is about to be gone. Nobody in team management (Pegula, Brandon, Whaley, etc) makes any comments. Nothing. Not even the routine "He's our coach and we are sticking by him." type of comments that are made. This ends up completely undermining any authority that he has and all it does is make it even more difficult for him to succeed. This is NOT a defense of Ryan or a request for him to stay. But this is not the way to treat your coach. Either show your support for the coach or (better yet) stop the leaks like this. Maybe even both would work!!)

Now we have this week's actions. Rex Ryan gets fired. First the team announces it on Twitter and does not even meet with the team or any of it's leaders. So players like Kyle Williams, Tyrod Taylor, Eric Wood and LeSean McCoy don't even garner the respect to be told by the team.
After the firing do any of these "leaders" have the courage to talk to the media? No. Of course not. Instead they send out the new interim coach, who is holding what is essentially his first press conference to answer the slew of questions that anybody with half of a brain could see coming. Many of those are not ones he should answer, but the media has no other place to turn to. So now he gets to set up and look like a fool because he is put in a position where success was not a practical option.

So now we know that EJ starting is a "business" decision. Which makes it impossible for him to accomplish anything. It also lets Tyrod know where he stands. It permeates down to other players and potential players who might want to come here who now think that this organization has no respect for anybody who works for the franchise, as long as they can cover their asses.

This team needs to have a complete cleaning. I am fine with Rex leaving - especially after Sunday. But in reality, he should have stayed over Brandon, Overdorf, and Whaley (the man who can't get along with head coaches and doesn't want to pay attention to their roster ideas) (and probably Taylor, but that's another discussion)

Right now, this team is the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of pro sports. In attempt to pretend that the leadership is serious about changing this perception heads need to be chopped.

Now.

It makes it impossible to get excited for anything they do and to want to spend my money at New Era Field next year and in the future. The way this team is run is utterly unprofessional and should embarrass all fans.

Can I share this on Twitter?

[Dr. Lecter]

Can I share this on Twitter?

Sure.

[bleve]

The organization made Anthony Lynn look completely inept. Hopefully this doesn't hurt his future job chances but after that I can't see why anyone, including the Bills, could seriously look at him being an NFL coach.

Whaley and Pegula should have both been at this presser and the questions about Tyrod and the situation in general with respect to Rex should have been handled by either Whaley, Pegula or both and not Lynn.

Lynn was hung out to dry and it makes everyone, especially ownership, look even more inept than he did himself.

The two other NFL teams that fired their coach had a presser the same day. LA's COO held one, and in Jacksonville, the GM had one. Where's Doug?

[Victor7]

The two other NFL teams that fired their coach had a presser the same day. LA's COO held one, and in Jacksonville, the GM had one. Where's Doug?

So far up Terry and Kim P's ass that both he and Brandon now breath through their mouths.

[WagonCircler]

The organization made Anthony Lynn look completely inept.

No, that was Anthony Lynn. The morons in the organization but him in a bad position, but this PC was indicative of who he is--a Running Backs Coach. He clearly doesn't have the tools necessary to be a Head Coach. No amount of practice is going to keep him from saying contradictory things at the press conferences. Nothing is going to improve his communications skills. He is what he is--an unproven, under-qualified, seemingly nice man who has no business in the job he's being pushed into.

The job of a Head Coach in the NFL pays well because it's incredibly complicated and multi-faceted. You need to be many things to many people. Strategist. Spokesman. Peacekeeper. You need to be smarter than the people who are asking you questions that are designed to make to say things that you don't want to say. The man on that stage today is never going to be that person. We have no idea if he's even capable of being a long term solution as a coordinator.

I feel sorry for him, to an extent. But a man needs to know his limitations.

[Dr. Lecter]

No, that was Anthony Lynn. The morons in the organization but him in a bad position, but this PC was indicative of who he is--a Running Backs Coach. He clearly doesn't have the tools necessary to be a Head Coach. No amount of practice is going to keep him from saying contradictory things at the press conferences. Nothing is going to improve his communications skills. He is what he is--an unproven, under-qualified, seemingly nice man who has no business in the job he's being pushed into.

The job of a Head Coach in the NFL pays well because it's incredibly complicated and multi-faceted. You need to be many things to many people. Strategist. Spokesman. Peacekeeper. You need to be smarter than the people who are asking you questions that are designed to make to say things that you don't want to say. The man on that stage today is never going to be that person. We have no idea if he's even capable of being a long term solution as a coordinator.

I feel sorry for him, to an extent. But a man needs to know his limitations.

That's not fair to him. he got this job yesterday and has never had a press conference before. His first one is one that is about as difficult as a presser a HC could have.

To say he will never be that person is baseless. They hung him out to dry and without regard for what the predictable result would be.

[Thurmal]

The lowest point of the franchise was the first Toronto "home" game, when you could hear the crowd audibly chant "Let's Go Dolphins" while Miami blew the Bills out as Dick Jauron stood on the sideline like a corpse.

It's pretty embarrassing now, though, and they're not even close to rock bottom. Wait until their "coaching search" starts, and candidate after candidate starts turning down interview requests.

[trapezeus]

rex, if he was a good coach, would have rounded up the players and said, "play for me. I'm going to put this fire out by getting us to the playoffs. if they want to fire me, they are going to have to fire a winner." but he lost to Pitts giving up huge yardage, blew the Oakland game, squandered the Miami game. he did it to himself. the issue again is that the bills still have their power structure that a normal successful football person would not want to voluntarily take on. you get all the negative and very little of the upside. you don't get to make choices, you get to have the power structure provide input on things they shouldn't. if you were at a winning team, you know this doesn't happen there. and you know its better to be successful one notch down than go to a loser institution to be screwed there and have to essentially start over on building your rep.

[justasportsfan]

He was/is far from the biggest problem with this team.

They hired a coach who led a team to two AFC championship games with Mark ****ing Sanchez at QB.

I know you hate the guy, but try to think past the irrational hatred for a few seconds.

He was the biggest problem. What he did with Sanchez has nothing to do with what he did or didn't do here.

Just look at the mess in the defensive unit alone. Thats as rational as it gets.

[feldspar]

That's not fair to him. he got this job yesterday and has never had a press conference before. His first one is one that is about as difficult as a presser a HC could have.

To say he will never be that person is baseless. They hung him out to dry and without regard for what the predictable result would be.

Ignoring the presser entirely, I'll ask a simple question:

Would YOU be happy if they hired Lynn as the Head Coach?

I haven't seen the presser, and my answer is no. I would not be happy at all with that hire.

[Dr. Lecter]

He was the biggest problem. What he did with Sanchez has nothing to do with what he did or didn't do here.

Just look at the mess in the defensive unit alone. Thats as rational as it gets.

no

The mess goes higher than him. He's just an easy scapegoat for all the blame.

As bad as it was, the defense is still 19th. Is that great? No.

The passing game isn't even 30th.

Which ranking is better?

[Dr. Lecter]

Ignoring the presser entirely, I'll ask a simple question:

Would YOU be happy if they hired Lynn as the Head Coach?

I haven't seen the presser, and my answer is no. I would not be happy at all with that hire.
That's an entirely separate question and point to make.

[WagonCircler]

That's not fair to him. he got this job yesterday and has never had a press conference before. His first one is one that is about as difficult as a presser a HC could have.

To say he will never be that person is baseless. They hung him out to dry and without regard for what the predictable result would be.

I understand what you're saying, but this is way beyond that. This is like watching a six year old girl swing a baseball bat and believing that if she keeps practicing she could someday me a major league baseball player. Only deluded people who believe in faerie tales could listen to that guy today and think he'll ever be able to handle a press corps, much less having to get out there and defend the asinine decisions that this front office keeps making.

Like someone said in another thread, he was milliseconds from saying "**** y'all" and walking off.

- - - Updated - - -


The passing game isn't even 30th

And yet, they're promoting the OC to Head Coach.

[justasportsfan]

no

The mess goes higher than him. He's just an easy scapegoat for all the blame.

As bad as it was, the defense is still 19th. Is that great? No.

The passing game isn't even 30th.

Which ranking is better?

Yes! The D is his unit. It was already top 4 when he took over. He got surpassed by the jets last year and he got owned in franchise record by the fins.

Youre arguing a 19th ranked D alone is pathetic He cant even crack top 10.

Its pathetuc that you are even trying to defend a coach whos only win against a winning team is against a 3rd string qb.

As unimprssed as we are with the offense, it wasnt even the weakest link. Ask the fins. You might like being the beeyotch ofnthe AFCE. I dont.

[Fixxxer]

Ignoring the presser entirely, I'll ask a simple question:

Would YOU be happy if they hired Lynn as the Head Coach?

I haven't seen the presser, and my answer is no. I would not be happy at all with that hire.

Why wouldn't people be happy? Per league sources he has been talked as a possible HC for quite some time now, he has already interviewed with team for HC positions. He has been in the league for 17 years working for some really good coaches (Shanahan, Parcells, Del Rio)

Sans a few questionable calls, he has produced a top 7 scoring offense with Tyrod Taylor as his QB.

If he would have been the coordinator for another team this year with those results, people would be saying Whaley is a stupid **** for not interviewing him, but apparently he has the Bills stench on him, so he's useless.

[justasportsfan]

The lack of discipline and the inability of his players to even know how to substitute is all on coaching. The players not willing to tackle is a coaching problem. Hes not the scapegoat, he is the problem

[Dr. Lecter]

Yes! The D is his unit. It was already top 4 when he took over. He got surpassed by the jets last year and he got owned in franchise record by the fins.

Youre arguing a 19th ranked D alone is pathetic He cant even crack top 10.

Its pathetuc that you are even trying to defend a coach whos only win against a winning team is against a 3rd string qb.

As unimprssed as we are with the offense, it wasnt even the weakest link. Ask the fins. You might like being the beeyotch ofnthe AFCE. I dont.
Jesus.

Did you read what I wrote or are you just flying off the handle based on a superficial glance at something.

Criticizing Brandon, Whaley, Overdorf, etc is not the same thing as defending Ryan.

Come on.

[justasportsfan]

Jesus.

Did you read what I wrote or are you just flying off the handle based on a superficial glance at something.

Criticizing Brandon, Whaley, Overdorf, etc is not the same thing as defending Ryan.

Come on.

They definitely are to blame to to some degree. They let the Pegulas hire Rex.

[Dr. Lecter]

They definitely are to blame to to some degree. They let the Pegulas hire Rex.

You're right.

This franchise was humming along at a high level until Rex arrived.

Oh, wait.............

[YardRat]

He was/is far from the biggest problem with this team.

I disagree. Doesn't mean others aren't problems also, but he definitely is the biggest.

They hired a coach who led a team to two AFC championship games with Mark ****ing Sanchez at QB.


The Jets had a winning record the season prior to his arrival, and his first two seasons he had a winning record. Big effing deal.

I know you hate the guy, but try to think past the irrational hatred for a few seconds.

I don't hate the guy, that's a little bit of hyperbole. Don't hate on me because I saw the last two years coming when they hired him.

[Mr. Pink]

Rex Ryan took Eric Mangini's assembled team to back to back AFC Championship games.

Once he started disassembling what Mangini built into his own vision of what Rex Ryan football should be, that team fell apart.

He did the same thing here, just in much shorter order.

So he was definitely one of the main problems these past two years.

[swiper]

When they announced that Manuel was starting over Tyrod, my first reaction was that I hope the fans all boycott the game because they are not trying to win.

[justasportsfan]

You're right.

This franchise was humming along at a high level until Rex arrived.

Oh, wait.............

Never said it was. But to say that Rex was the scapegoat is inaccurate. his demise was his own doing . The FO realized they fell for his mouth. In a way you are right. If the owner knew what they were doing, they wouldnt have hired him in the first place

[swiper]

You're right.

This franchise was humming along at a high level until Rex arrived.

Oh, wait.............

Like I said in another thread. Until the fans give it back to the owner (in the form of staying away from the games and not buying Bills merchandise), none of this circus will change.

I often wonder what finally got into Ralph's dander to hire Polian, Marv and get Kelly. Because for most of his time this befuddled mediocrity was just fine to him.

[justasportsfan]

Rex Ryan took Eric Mangini's assembled team to back to back AFC Championship games.

Once he started disassembling what Mangini built into his own vision of what Rex Ryan football should be, that team fell apart.

He did the same thing here, just in much shorter order.

So he was definitely one of the main problems these past two years.

Just like Gruden. Once the Dungy defense he inherited started to disappear, couldnt build the team back up.

[YardRat]

You're right.

This franchise was humming along at a high level until Rex arrived.

Oh, wait.............
That's probably one of the most frustrating aspects of this ordeal. They had a winning record. They had a top 4 defense in place. The special teams were very solid, above average. They had decent, albeit not great, talent at the offensive skill positions. They were a decent QB and one (maybe two) offensive linemen away from possibly being 'there'. After 14 years of missing the playoffs, they has built a team that was thisclose and it isn't unreasonable to have expectations that they could actually be better in '15. Not too sure many people would feel the same about the '16 squad and their prospects for '17.

Like it or not, Wrecks inherited a decent situation that was built while Whaley was on board and Brandon was the de facto owner, and he's leaving it in worse shape as he walks out the door.

[justasportsfan]

When they announced that Manuel was starting over Tyrod, my first reaction was that I hope the fans all boycott the game because they are not trying to win.

The team wasnt trying ro win when they gave up on Rex and just let the steelers rbs walk to the endzone. They also werent trying to win against the fins either.

They all gave up a long time ago.

[feldspar]

Why wouldn't people be happy? Per league sources he has been talked as a possible HC for quite some time now, he has already interviewed with team for HC positions. He has been in the league for 17 years working for some really good coaches (Shanahan, Parcells, Del Rio)

Sans a few questionable calls, he has produced a top 7 scoring offense with Tyrod Taylor as his QB.

If he would have been the coordinator for another team this year with those results, people would be saying Whaley is a stupid **** for not interviewing him, but apparently he has the Bills stench on him, so he's useless.

Let somebody else hire him as Head Coach then...I doubt anyone would. Rooney Rule interviews? I can't tell from here...

But the guy started out as Special Teams Assistant for two years, and then was a running backs coach for over 13 years. As far I as can see, he's been just calling the plays under Greg Roman's offensive system these past 13 weeks. He never installed a system of his own there, as nobody can start from scratch DURING the season.

I don't like his credentials. Do we really want RUNNING BACKS coach at the helm of THIS team at this point? I'd rather have a guy that can identify and help develop a QB...somebody like Darrell Bevell from Seattle potentially, say. Will Lynn keep the majority of assistant coaches here too? Rex's retinue? If Rex is gone, then so should his posse be gone...ground and pound ain't gonna do it.

[Albany,n.y.]

New low? Ha!
How about the days when:
We lost the #1 pick in the NFL draft to the CFL
Jim Kelly is in the Bills office negotiating a contract & the team puts the USFL's call through and he leaves & signs with the USFL
Back to back 2-14 seasons, finishing the 2nd one with Hank Bullough as head coach
The whole John Rauch leaving in pre-season fiasco.

If you think this is a new low, I recommend reading the original Relentless and looking at some of the down years. This is child's play compared to some of the stuff that Ralph did in the 60s, 70s & 80s.

[DesertFox24]

I have a 7 year old son he is more into soccer and does not want to play football but knows the Bills and a few other teams like Green Bay and San Diego.

We were watching the bills the other day and my wife asked if Bills were his favorite team and he said no the chargers were. At the time I said boy the bills will be your favorite team the chargers can be your second favorite like me as I was born there.

That was until today.

I am so embarrased by Doug Whaley letting Lynn take the heat for what Doug did.

17 years of futility and this garbage I would not wish this experience on anyone.

So in honor of star wars I remembered this line.

Darth Vader in response to Luke saying come back to the light side

"it is too late for me son" (Me finding a new favorite team)

And then of course the scene where he kills the emperor. Lets just say for the sake of this arguement that bills fandome is the equivalent of joining the dark side and that he saves luke from that.

It was funnier in my head but since I typed all this garbage out I am going to post anyway. Make fun of me anyway but any parent out there wants what is best for their kid and I know no one really cares about a sports team, this is straight satire so relax PC police.

I could care less who my son likes in reality but after today I was just thinking if I could force him to like another team would it be worth it???

[Fixxxer]

Let somebody else hire him as Head Coach then...I doubt anyone would. Rooney Rule interviews? I can't tell from here...

But the guy started out as Special Teams Assistant for two years, and then was a running backs coach for over 13 years. As far I as can see, he's been just calling the plays under Greg Roman's offensive system these past 13 weeks. He never installed a system of his own there, as nobody can start from scratch DURING the season.

I don't like his credentials. Do we really want RUNNING BACKS coach at the helm of THIS team at this point? I'd rather have a guy that can identify and help develop a QB...somebody like Darrell Bevell from Seattle potentially, say. Will Lynn keep the majority of assistant coaches here too? Rex's retinue? If Rex is gone, then so should his posse be gone...ground and pound ain't gonna do it.

You might not like them, but the credentials are there. The fact he learned from guys like Parcells and Shanahan makes him an intriguing prospect. Everywhere he went he had success. This year, it might have been Roman's playbook, but his playcalling, sans a few plays, was very positive. Do you feel the passing game faltered because of Lynn or because of Taylor's shortcomings?

I'm not saying he's a sure thing or that we would be making a huge mistake by not hiring him, but we would be foolish not to interview him.

[pmoon6]

That's not fair to him. he got this job yesterday and has never had a press conference before. His first one is one that is about as difficult as a presser a HC could have.

To say he will never be that person is baseless. They hung him out to dry and without regard for what the predictable result would be.Well, this is all about how much you hate the front office because they haven't given what you want.

Public Speaking is a learned skill for the most part, but in the context of NFL press conferences, you have to be able to think on your feet. It was obvious from yesterday that Anthony Lynn doesn't possess that skill. Can he get better, sure, but it will take a lot of work.

[trapezeus]

then why hold it. a genius market man might have just put out a story that said, "due to the short timing to get the team prepared for sunday, we will not hold media day this week to help the players." but they trotted him out there by himself. its so dysfunctional that a guy like lynn who wants to be a straight shooter has a hard time telling the truth on which decisions are his and which are others because no one knows. and he rightfully doesn't want to speak for GM or owners, but then why weren't they there? they knew this was coming. they built this mess, sit in front of it. they are cowards and as a result their team shows cowardly behavior. unable to tackle, unable to make a big play when its needed. they embody what currently is the ethos of the buffalo bills.

[OpIv37]

It makes it impossible to get excited for anything they do and to want to spend my money at New Era Field next year and in the future. The way this team is run is utterly unprofessional and should embarrass all fans.

This goes back to something I've said before on here: There is only one champion every season, and even the best teams like NE can't win every year. It becomes an unstated quid pro quo: we deal with the bad times and the disappointment because that makes it all the more special when we do win. But what happens when the possibility of winning gets taken off the table? What happens when the team is run so poorly- and so differently from the teams that are perennial contenders- that a championship seems completely impossible and even a playoff berth seems highly unlikely? It becomes extremely difficult to keep supporting the team.

I felt this way during the last couple of years under Ralph. He rarely spent money, and when he did he spent it poorly, and then he used the poor results as an excuse to not spend money. But the bottom line was healthy: ad revenue was up, asses were in seats and the team was making money. So he had ZERO incentive to change. I was hoping Pegula would be different, and he is, but for all the wrong reasons. He spends money and doesn't care that much about the bottom line- he just insists on having input into how the money is spent. The problem is that most of us on this board know more about football than he does- we just didn't make $3 billion on fracking like he did. So, after a couple of years of hope, we are right back in the same situation.

I've been a Bills fan since I was about 10 years old. I love the game of football. I don't want to give up on the team but I don't know how I can continue to support an organization that is so poorly managed and has zero chance at success.

[jimmifli]

That's not fair to him. he got this job yesterday and has never had a press conference before. His first one is one that is about as difficult as a presser a HC could have.

To say he will never be that person is baseless. They hung him out to dry and without regard for what the predictable result would be.

"Sorry I'm not going to answer questions about that, you'll have to check with others in the organization"
"Yeah, as I said before, that's better addressed by Doug or Terry"
"Thanks, I appreciate the question and how important it is, but it's not something I'm going to talk about today"
"That's a good question, it's not something I'm going to be able to discuss today"

Broken record technique is not hard, and it works. After a while it just makes the reporters look like *******s for asking the same question over and over again.

As for the Tyrod decision, if you agree with the decision then own it, if you don't then you either lie or quit. But showing up and saying it was OUR decision and then admitting you aren't a part of OUR is like chumming the waters. If he's that inept at seeing the implication of his situation he's DOA as a HC, probably as an OC as well.

[WagonCircler]

This goes back to something I've said before on here: There is only one champion every season, and even the best teams like NE can't win every year. It becomes an unstated quid pro quo: we deal with the bad times and the disappointment because that makes it all the more special when we do win. But what happens when the possibility of winning gets taken off the table? What happens when the team is run so poorly- and so differently from the teams that are perennial contenders- that a championship seems completely impossible and even a playoff berth seems highly unlikely? It becomes extremely difficult to keep supporting the team.

I felt this way during the last couple of years under Ralph. He rarely spent money, and when he did he spent it poorly, and then he used the poor results as an excuse to not spend money. But the bottom line was healthy: ad revenue was up, asses were in seats and the team was making money. So he had ZERO incentive to change. I was hoping Pegula would be different, and he is, but for all the wrong reasons. He spends money and doesn't care that much about the bottom line- he just insists on having input into how the money is spent. The problem is that most of us on this board know more about football than he does- we just didn't make $3 billion on fracking like he did. So, after a couple of years of hope, we are right back in the same situation.

I've been a Bills fan since I was about 10 years old. I love the game of football. I don't want to give up on the team but I don't know how I can continue to support an organization that is so poorly managed and has zero chance at success.

This, to me, is exactly why tailgating has evolved the way it has. People have come to realize that the ownership/management of this team is ill equipped to produce a serious contending football team.

So Bills fans, happy to have a bad NFL franchise rather than none at all, have turned Sundays upside down. The real show has become, sadly, in the parking lots.

You can only be disappointed for so many years in a row before you find ways to ease your misery. Ways that don't depend on others.

This is what we do here in Buffalo. We make chicken wings out of the parts that others have been tossing in the garbage for centuries (kind of like that old axiom "making chicken salad out of chicken ****).

We do our Buffalo thing. We know we've been dealt a bad had, economically, weather-wise, etc. But we enjoy the hell out of each other's company, so we party our balls off.

The true sport on Sundays in the Fall here has become throwing the best tailgate. Making the best of an otherwise bad situation. Granted, when 70,000 people are partying, there will surely be world class idiots. But they're a small fraction of that 70,000.

Even though this custom serves to perpetuate the status quo, by not forcing management to ever truly field a winning team, we do it because it's something we control. Russ ****ing Brandon and Doug ****ing Whaley don't control my tailgate. Therefore, it has a shot at being successful.

[jimmifli]

Arguing over who is the biggest problem is silly.

Good people have options. They don't want to work for *******s if it can be avoided. And they won't ever work for incompetent people.

Putting our RB's coach out there alone to field those questions proves our team's leadership is either incompetent or *******s. Or maybe both. When you have a track record demonstrating similar misjudgments it becomes virtually impossible to attract good people to your organization.

We've seen that for almost two decades.

[feldspar]

I agree that it was crappy for management to throw Lynn out there to the media wolves. Maybe they ran for the hills to avoid explaining the situation themselves...

But MAYBE they wanted to to see how Lynn reacted to the situation to further evaluate him for the permanent spot...ever think of that? Seems a little harsh, but not so unreasonable to me.

And I just watched the presser. It wasn't as bad as some made it out to be.

I don't think management had anything in particular or reveal anyway, other than the obvious things we already know, some of which they won't even admit. Their day of reckoning is nigh, anyway. That ought to be interesting...even the most jaded fans will tune in to hear certain explanations, or listen to the double-talk...

[Dr. Lecter]

That's probably one of the most frustrating aspects of this ordeal. They had a winning record. They had a top 4 defense in place. The special teams were very solid, above average. They had decent, albeit not great, talent at the offensive skill positions. They were a decent QB and one (maybe two) offensive linemen away from possibly being 'there'. After 14 years of missing the playoffs, they has built a team that was thisclose and it isn't unreasonable to have expectations that they could actually be better in '15. Not too sure many people would feel the same about the '16 squad and their prospects for '17.

Like it or not, Wrecks inherited a decent situation that was built while Whaley was on board and Brandon was the de facto owner, and he's leaving it in worse shape as he walks out the door.
It's in the same damn shape.
Winning record with an asterisk, unless you forget that NE gave them the 9th win.

They were 9-7. Now they are 8-8. Ryan's winning % (since that seems to be important to you) is the best of the coaches since Phillips.

But HE and he alone made it worse.

Come on. Use your brain more than this.

The team is the same it was. It's garbage

Not to mention the original intent of this thread was much much much more than the team on the field.

[Dr. Lecter]

New low? Ha!
How about the days when:
We lost the #1 pick in the NFL draft to the CFL
Jim Kelly is in the Bills office negotiating a contract & the team puts the USFL's call through and he leaves & signs with the USFL
Back to back 2-14 seasons, finishing the 2nd one with Hank Bullough as head coach
The whole John Rauch leaving in pre-season fiasco.

If you think this is a new low, I recommend reading the original Relentless and looking at some of the down years. This is child's play compared to some of the stuff that Ralph did in the 60s, 70s & 80s.

Yeah. I have read it.

And I lived many of those years, so I don't need the lecture. I went to a number of games when they had Bullough and Stephenson. I was at the press conference when they announced signing Kelly. So please, spare the lecture and acting like I don't know the history of this team or that I too haven't lived it.

My point goes much deeper than the team on the field.

[Dr. Lecter]

Arguing over who is the biggest problem is silly.

Good people have options. They don't want to work for *******s if it can be avoided. And they won't ever work for incompetent people.

Putting our RB's coach out there alone to field those questions proves our team's leadership is either incompetent or *******s. Or maybe both. When you have a track record demonstrating similar misjudgments it becomes virtually impossible to attract good people to your organization.

We've seen that for almost two decades.
In theory it's silly, until the people that run the clown car never change and instead there is satisfaction from people that think they have it all figured out when they can somebody that is but one small part of the issue and the root cause never gets fixed

[TacklingDummy]

Oh the good old days when...."Ralph is cheap"

[Albany,n.y.]

Yeah. I have read it.

And I lived many of those years, so I don't need the lecture. I went to a number of games when they had Bullough and Stephenson. I was at the press conference when they announced signing Kelly. So please, spare the lecture and acting like I don't know the history of this team or that I too haven't lived it.

My point goes much deeper than the team on the field.
I still say what's going on is nothing compared with Ralph's follies off the field. At least nobody is forcing the coaching job on anyone. Ralph made us the laughing stock of pro football parts of the 1st 3 decades of the team, then the last years of his life returned us to that status.

[YardRat]

It's in the same damn shape.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see how a top 4 defense/solid special teams is 'the same shape' as a 19th ranked defense/shoddy special teams, especially after giving up THREE 200 yard rushing games in one season when the total for the previous 56 YEARS COMBINED was five.

Winning record with an asterisk, unless you forget that NE gave them the 9th win.


Horse****. They did the same thing against NY this past weekend, does the Jets loss come with an asterisk also?

They were 9-7. Now they are 8-8. Ryan's winning % (since that seems to be important to you) is the best of the coaches since Phillips.


And that means what, exactly? He took over a team that posted 9 wins the year prior. Last year he coached the team to 8 wins. This year to 7. The down trend in wins is his MO, he did the same thing in NY. Taking an above-500 team and consistently leading them to less wins deserves some kind of accolades? Marrone took over a 6 win team and posted 6 wins, then 9. Same # of wins as Wrecks. At least he didn't go backward. Want him back?

But HE and he alone made it worse.


Of course not...all of the Jet-Stank assistants he dragged along with him certainly helped. Who brought them? Oh yeah...Wrecks.
Come on. Use your brain more than this.


It doesn't take too much brain to ascertain how badly he sucks as a coach, and how badly he ****ed up the last two seasons.
The team is the same it was. It's garbage


Again we'll just have to disagree. It's worse. You sound like Wrecks if you want to proclaim a top 4 defense is 'garbage'. Fourth isn't good enough, is it? How did that work out for everybody?

Not to mention the original intent of this thread was much much much more than the team on the field.

As somebody else already posted, this isn't even close to the lowest point. There have been far worse transgressions made by this organization over the years, and the original poster didn't even list some of the worst. Do you really think sticking Lynn out there alone for his first presser is worse than suing Wade Phillips over his salary? Forcing Derrick Burroughs to sue over his medical bills?

You come on. You use your brain. This is peanuts, relatively speaking.

[coastal]

These past few weeks/month are marking a new low point in the relatively low history of this team.

Let's look back at the recent history of the team

Rex Ryan, like him or not, was crapped on by this team and the management. Somebody in the front office starts to leak word that his time is coming to an end with the team still alive for the playoffs. But the word gets out anyway that he is about to be gone. Nobody in team management (Pegula, Brandon, Whaley, etc) makes any comments. Nothing. Not even the routine "He's our coach and we are sticking by him." type of comments that are made. This ends up completely undermining any authority that he has and all it does is make it even more difficult for him to succeed. This is NOT a defense of Ryan or a request for him to stay. But this is not the way to treat your coach. Either show your support for the coach or (better yet) stop the leaks like this. Maybe even both would work!!)

Now we have this week's actions. Rex Ryan gets fired. First the team announces it on Twitter and does not even meet with the team or any of it's leaders. So players like Kyle Williams, Tyrod Taylor, Eric Wood and LeSean McCoy don't even garner the respect to be told by the team.
After the firing do any of these "leaders" have the courage to talk to the media? No. Of course not. Instead they send out the new interim coach, who is holding what is essentially his first press conference to answer the slew of questions that anybody with half of a brain could see coming. Many of those are not ones he should answer, but the media has no other place to turn to. So now he gets to set up and look like a fool because he is put in a position where success was not a practical option.

So now we know that EJ starting is a "business" decision. Which makes it impossible for him to accomplish anything. It also lets Tyrod know where he stands. It permeates down to other players and potential players who might want to come here who now think that this organization has no respect for anybody who works for the franchise, as long as they can cover their asses.

This team needs to have a complete cleaning. I am fine with Rex leaving - especially after Sunday. But in reality, he should have stayed over Brandon, Overdorf, and Whaley (the man who can't get along with head coaches and doesn't want to pay attention to their roster ideas) (and probably Taylor, but that's another discussion)

Right now, this team is the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of pro sports. In attempt to pretend that the leadership is serious about changing this perception heads need to be chopped.

Now.

It makes it impossible to get excited for anything they do and to want to spend my money at New Era Field next year and in the future. The way this team is run is utterly unprofessional and should embarrass all fans.
this post almost makes me forget that you're a single male who owns multiple cats...

almost.

[Mace]

I'll go against everyone's grain.

I don't think Lynn comes out of this looking bad if he walks away, walking away frames his undesired moment perfectly, teams will see that. I don't think Lynn is an idiot, I think this set of circumstances sit poorly with him. Even if they want him, I think Lynn walks.

[sudzy]

I'll go against everyone's grain.

I don't think Lynn comes out of this looking bad if he walks away, walking away frames his undesired moment perfectly, teams will see that. I don't think Lynn is an idiot, I think this set of circumstances sit poorly with him. Even if they want him, I think Lynn walks.

That would be smart. If you walk it a bad coaching situation and it blows up on you, you probably won't get another one. This organization is crashing and burning. Why sign up for that?

[Night Train]

I agree. My friend and I have Club seats and spend a lot. We agreed to wait and not worry about invoice deadlines anymore.

False hope and marketing seems to be a leftover priority from the Ralph years and those people seem to be sticking around.

Lynn looks to be the face saving,lazy plan and it's nothing towards him. He'd be smart to leave on his own, after being hung out to dry today.

I guess the Darcy situation taught Pegula nothing. Waiting for the ship to totally sink isn't how he made 5 billion, once upon a time.

Get outside help with unbiased, clear eyes.

[WagonCircler]

False hope and marketing seems to be a leftover priority from the Ralph years.

Does it rhyme with Buss Landon?

[coastal]

How perfectly dysfunctional would that be if Lynn walks at the end of the year!?

We're going to end up with some awful retread like Haslett to play to the idiot locals.

[The Jokeman]

How perfectly dysfunctional would that be if Lynn walks at the end of the year!?

We're going to end up with some awful retread like Haslett to play to the idiot locals.

As a local I can state I want no part of Haslett.

[jimmifli]

I'll go against everyone's grain.

I don't think Lynn comes out of this looking bad if he walks away, walking away frames his undesired moment perfectly, teams will see that. I don't think Lynn is an idiot, I think this set of circumstances sit poorly with him. Even if they want him, I think Lynn walks.

Let's look at how desirable he'd be:

- had a successful offense after taking over in season
- had a successful offense with Tyrod
- had a successful offense after getting destroyed by injuries
- impressed his employer so much they wanted to hire him for the Head Coach position
- declined because he's not willing to work for incompetent people that try to force his coaching decisions

Other teams likely see a talented up and comer with integrity. He comes out smelling like a rose, and definitely a top OC candidate. But I'm not sure if he's getting a head coach job anywhere else. And if he takes the job here, he's probably got it for at least two years... unless he makes the playoffs - then he's driving a hard bargain. So I'm not sure, OC and rising star vs 2 years and out as a HC.

Personally, I think I'd take the HC job, because they always seem to land coordinator positions or worst case he's back to a RB coach.

[coastal]

As a local I can state I want no part of Haslett.then you aren't an idiot local.

[YardRat]

How perfectly dysfunctional would that be if Lynn walks at the end of the year!?

We're going to end up with some awful retread like Haslett to play to the idiot locals.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/e13c326b19cb29b1cf6ceca2da1b94b4e589ea6f/c=247-0-3719-2604&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/07/23/Rochester/B9317993548Z.1_20150723175721_000_GSCBDA8RO.1-0.jpg

[Mace]

Personally, I think I'd take the HC job, because they always seem to land coordinator positions or worst case he's back to a RB coach.

I don't know. There will be staffs turning over, and opportunities ahead. Polishing your OC chops adds to HC value and quality of opportunities. Lynn is 48.

Jump into a bad situation for desperation, well, Mike Pettine. Lynn is sitting here because of Rex, with a Ryan staff. Dump them and you're saying something to your friend and benefactor. Go elsewhere and forge your own path and you are your own man with a stable of future assistant possibilities, because Ryan's bloated 27 man staff isn't going anywhere quick with no more Ryan defenses and the pro game pass oriented. Tune up another offense, and you get a pen to write your own ticket, derail your career on a bad situation and you set yourself back years. You aren't at the top of the fashionable list anymore.

I really think if I were Lynn, I'd go for an OC spot at this point.

[YardRat]

I'd take the HC job and bring in the best coordinators available, let them do their job. Make the right calls, have a little bit of success, and be in a position to write your own ticket here or elsewhere. Make the wrong calls and go back to RB coach somewhere else with another item on the resume'.

[Mace]

I'd take the HC job and bring in the best coordinators available, let them do their job. Make the right calls, have a little bit of success, and be in a position to write your own ticket here or elsewhere. Make the wrong calls and go back to RB coach somewhere else with another item on the resume'.

Bradley and McCoy would make me happy.

[justasportsfan]

It's in the same damn shape.
.
No it isnt. The Defense is the weakest link. The unit he is supposedly a genius of. We have practically the same record because of him. His unit held back this team. Nice try trying to spin it around.

A better defense the last 2 years gets us in the playoffs. Especially the D he inherited that he ruined.

[jimmifli]

I don't know. There will be staffs turning over, and opportunities ahead. Polishing your OC chops adds to HC value and quality of opportunities. Lynn is 48.

Jump into a bad situation for desperation, well, Mike Pettine. Lynn is sitting here because of Rex, with a Ryan staff. Dump them and you're saying something to your friend and benefactor. Go elsewhere and forge your own path and you are your own man with a stable of future assistant possibilities, because Ryan's bloated 27 man staff isn't going anywhere quick with no more Ryan defenses and the pro game pass oriented. Tune up another offense, and you get a pen to write your own ticket, derail your career on a bad situation and you set yourself back years. You aren't at the top of the fashionable list anymore.

I really think if I were Lynn, I'd go for an OC spot at this point.

For every Pettine there have to be dozens of coordinators that were hot commodities and never got their shot. Putting up a top ten offense or defense year after year is really tough, and a bad year could sink your shot.

For me, I feel like I'd hate myself if I never got another chance. I don't feel like there's a wrong answer in this situation though, which does support your original point. There's a good chance he doesn't want to dance with the ugly girl.

[justasportsfan]

Btw, again...I agree that FO has had a hand in this and their biggest mistake was hiring Rex to begin with.

[jimmifli]

If hiring Rex was soooo dumb, how is keeping all front office staff that participated in that decision and then allowing the same guys to hire one of Rex's position coaches to be his replacement.... how is that not worse than the first mistake?

[YardRat]

If hiring Rex was soooo dumb, how is keeping all front office staff that participated in that decision and then allowing the same guys to hire one of Rex's position coaches to be his replacement.... how is that not worse than the first mistake?

My speculation (hope?) is the Wrecks hire had Brandon's fingerprints all over it, and the announcement that Whaley will be leading this search is a dual message...to Russ "Yeah, thanks for nothing, we'll pass on your opinion this go-round" and to Doug "Here's your chance to put up or shut up and go bye-bye too".

[Mace]

If hiring Rex was soooo dumb, how is keeping all front office staff that participated in that decision and then allowing the same guys to hire one of Rex's position coaches to be his replacement.... how is that not worse than the first mistake?

You'd think.

[Dr. Lecter]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't see how a top 4 defense/solid special teams is 'the same shape' as a 19th ranked defense/shoddy special teams, especially after giving up THREE 200 yard rushing games in one season when the total for the previous 56 YEARS COMBINED was five.
So are you missing the 12-4 Marrone years? The 11-5 Gailey year? The 13-3 Jauron year?
And I didn't say the ****ing defense was in the same shape. I said the team was. Don't change what I said to fit your narrative.

The team wins 7, 8 or 9 games under all these clowns. Does it make a difference how they get there?

Which of those other coaches led the team to the playoffs?



Horse****. They did the same thing against NY this past weekend, does the Jets loss come with an asterisk also?

You get the point. They got a gift against them.

Why are you being intentionally obtuse on this?



And that means what, exactly? He took over a team that posted 9 wins the year prior. Last year he coached the team to 8 wins. This year to 7. The down trend in wins is his MO, he did the same thing in NY. Taking an above-500 team and consistently leading them to less wins deserves some kind of accolades? Marrone took over a 6 win team and posted 6 wins, then 9. Same # of wins as Wrecks. At least he didn't go backward. Want him back?
And the combined record is the same.
The fact is the organization is rotting from the top.That will make anything below it garbage. you can pretend that There is a huge difference between 9 and 8 wins to make yourself happy, but there isn't.


Of course not...all of the Jet-Stank assistants he dragged along with him certainly helped. Who brought them? Oh yeah...Wrecks.
And yet his winning % is better than previous Bills coaches.

Or does that only matter when it makes you look good?


It doesn't take too much brain to ascertain how badly he sucks as a coach, and how badly he ****ed up the last two seasons.

Garbage in, garbage out. Again, this isn't a defense of him. it is pointing out that there are bigger problems than just Rex.


Again we'll just have to disagree. It's worse. You sound like Wrecks if you want to proclaim a top 4 defense is 'garbage'. Fourth isn't good enough, is it? How did that work out for everybody?

So 9 wins is a great accomplishment and 8 wins is a failure?

You keep harping on the defense. I look at wins and losses. I always though they were more important.

As somebody else already posted, this isn't even close to the lowest point. There have been far worse transgressions made by this organization over the years, and the original poster didn't even list some of the worst. Do you really think sticking Lynn out there alone for his first presser is worse than suing Wade Phillips over his salary? Forcing Derrick Burroughs to sue over his medical bills?

it's the entire pattern of what this team is doing. It's the endless cycle of Brandon and Whaley doing what they can to make this place undesirable.

And yes, although you probably were giddy , the way they let Rex twist in the wind won't help either.


You come on. You use your brain. This is peanuts, relatively speaking.
No. It's a pattern that is now ongoing with nobody wanting to face the music except Lynn and Rex.

[Dr. Lecter]

My speculation (hope?) is the Wrecks hire had Brandon's fingerprints all over it, and the announcement that Whaley will be leading this search is a dual message...to Russ "Yeah, thanks for nothing, we'll pass on your opinion this go-round" and to Doug "Here's your chance to put up or shut up and go bye-bye too".

Well, I hope Whaley hires coaches as well as he drafts.

That would be awesome.

I expect nothing but 19-0 next year now.

[Dr. Lecter]

No it isnt. The Defense is the weakest link. The unit he is supposedly a genius of. We have practically the same record because of him. His unit held back this team. Nice try trying to spin it around.

A better defense the last 2 years gets us in the playoffs. Especially the D he inherited that he ruined.

Yet the record was pretty much the same and the offense was much better.

So let me get this straight - Rex gets the blame for the bad, but no credit for the good?

Is that your theory?

[Dr. Lecter]

How perfectly dysfunctional would that be if Lynn walks at the end of the year!?

We're going to end up with some awful retread like Haslett to play to the idiot locals.

Apparently Yardie and Justa think that Haslett would lead the Bills to the Super Bowl!

[Mace]

Garbage in, garbage out pretty much sums it all up.

[Dr. Lecter]

this post almost makes me forget that you're a single male who owns multiple cats...

almost.
http://www.desicomments.com/dc2/02/184669/184669.gif

[YardRat]

So are you missing the 12-4 Marrone years? The 11-5 Gailey year? The 13-3 Jauron year?
And I didn't say the ****ing defense was in the same shape. I said the team was. Don't change what I said to fit your narrative.

I don't know why you are struggling with 'the same' and 'different'. The defense was top four...the special teams were above average...the offense needed a QB and an olineman. You can't say that now about the team and you know it.


The team wins 7, 8 or 9 games under all these clowns. Does it make a difference how they get there?

Which of those other coaches led the team to the playoffs?



You get the point. They got a gift against them.

Why are you being intentionally obtuse on this?



And the combined record is the same.
The fact is the organization is rotting from the top.That will make anything below it garbage. you can pretend that There is a huge difference between 9 and 8 wins to make yourself happy, but there isn't.


You're missing the point. The team was getting better under Brandon/Whaley/Marrone...they got worse under Pegula/Whaley/Wrecks. If you want to simply look at wins and losses on their own, go ahead...the facts prove this statement to be true within that parameter.

This isn't difficult, Doc. Marrone inherited a 6 win team, and after two seasons had them at 9 wins. Wrecks inherited a 9 win team, and after two seasons has them at 7.


And yet his winning % is better than previous Bills coaches.


The team he inherited was better than the teams they inherited also.

Or does that only matter when it makes you look good?

I always look good...it's the silver fox thingie. Sometimes a blessing, sometimes a curse.




Garbage in, garbage out. Again, this isn't a defense of him. it is pointing out that there are bigger problems than just Rex.


There are other problems, no doubt...but the biggest one the last two seasons has been the coaching. I don't think that's even debatable.


So 9 wins is a great accomplishment and 8 wins is a failure?

Going from 6 wins to 9 is some level of success, and going from those 9 wins to 7 is some level of failure. Yes.


You keep harping on the defense. I look at wins and losses. I always though they were more important.

Then LOOK at them...in my above statements.



it's the entire pattern of what this team is doing. It's the endless cycle of Brandon and Whaley doing what they can to make this place undesirable.

And yes, although you probably were giddy , the way they let Rex twist in the wind won't help either.


No. It's a pattern that is now ongoing with nobody wanting to face the music except Lynn and Rex.

Hopefully putting Whaley in charge of this search indicates Brandon's opinion is out. That would be a step in the right direction. Now Whaley gets a chance to prove his value, on his own terms. If he FUBARS this, he'll be shown the door also.

I agree things should have been handled differently, and Whaley should have been front and center in some capacity, but that slight in no way excuses or minimizes what Wrecks and his Stank Staff did to this team over the last two seasons.

[Frenchman]

Yeah as really hope that they can get a coach that wants to win! And make Tyrod an elite QB!

[YardRat]

Apparently Yardie and Justa think that Haslett would lead the Bills to the Super Bowl!

For the record, I want nothing to do with Haslett either. I just thought coastal would get a kick out of the Brandon pic signaling 'score' or 'touchdown' in reference to Haslett's name being tossed out there.

[jamze132]

no

The mess goes higher than him. He's just an easy scapegoat for all the blame.

As bad as it was, the defense is still 19th. Is that great? No.

The passing game isn't even 30th.

Which ranking is better?
Considering the running game is first in the NFL, I think it kind of evens out, no?

As far as the defense, which was supposed to be Rex's bread n' butter, how do they allow three 200+ rushing performances going down the stretch to three teams that we should/could have beat? The defense as a whole had no heart and were weak minded. Sounds like they quit on Rex.

[DraftBoy]

These past few weeks/month are marking a new low point in the relatively low history of this team.

Let's look back at the recent history of the team

Rex Ryan, like him or not, was crapped on by this team and the management. Somebody in the front office starts to leak word that his time is coming to an end with the team still alive for the playoffs. But the word gets out anyway that he is about to be gone. Nobody in team management (Pegula, Brandon, Whaley, etc) makes any comments. Nothing. Not even the routine "He's our coach and we are sticking by him." type of comments that are made. This ends up completely undermining any authority that he has and all it does is make it even more difficult for him to succeed. This is NOT a defense of Ryan or a request for him to stay. But this is not the way to treat your coach. Either show your support for the coach or (better yet) stop the leaks like this. Maybe even both would work!!)

Now we have this week's actions. Rex Ryan gets fired. First the team announces it on Twitter and does not even meet with the team or any of it's leaders. So players like Kyle Williams, Tyrod Taylor, Eric Wood and LeSean McCoy don't even garner the respect to be told by the team.
After the firing do any of these "leaders" have the courage to talk to the media? No. Of course not. Instead they send out the new interim coach, who is holding what is essentially his first press conference to answer the slew of questions that anybody with half of a brain could see coming. Many of those are not ones he should answer, but the media has no other place to turn to. So now he gets to set up and look like a fool because he is put in a position where success was not a practical option.

So now we know that EJ starting is a "business" decision. Which makes it impossible for him to accomplish anything. It also lets Tyrod know where he stands. It permeates down to other players and potential players who might want to come here who now think that this organization has no respect for anybody who works for the franchise, as long as they can cover their asses.

This team needs to have a complete cleaning. I am fine with Rex leaving - especially after Sunday. But in reality, he should have stayed over Brandon, Overdorf, and Whaley (the man who can't get along with head coaches and doesn't want to pay attention to their roster ideas) (and probably Taylor, but that's another discussion)

Right now, this team is the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of pro sports. In attempt to pretend that the leadership is serious about changing this perception heads need to be chopped.

Now.

It makes it impossible to get excited for anything they do and to want to spend my money at New Era Field next year and in the future. The way this team is run is utterly unprofessional and should embarrass all fans.

While you know I disagree with you on a few of the points this is very well said. The team has completely botched this entire endeavor and it is embarrassing. The coal raking they are getting in the national media is completely deserved.

[DraftBoy]

Bradley and McCoy would make me happy.

I'm all aboard this train.

[Forward_Lateral]

These past few weeks/month are marking a new low point in the relatively low history of this team.

Let's look back at the recent history of the team

Rex Ryan, like him or not, was crapped on by this team and the management. Somebody in the front office starts to leak word that his time is coming to an end with the team still alive for the playoffs. But the word gets out anyway that he is about to be gone. Nobody in team management (Pegula, Brandon, Whaley, etc) makes any comments. Nothing. Not even the routine "He's our coach and we are sticking by him." type of comments that are made. This ends up completely undermining any authority that he has and all it does is make it even more difficult for him to succeed. This is NOT a defense of Ryan or a request for him to stay. But this is not the way to treat your coach. Either show your support for the coach or (better yet) stop the leaks like this. Maybe even both would work!!)

Now we have this week's actions. Rex Ryan gets fired. First the team announces it on Twitter and does not even meet with the team or any of it's leaders. So players like Kyle Williams, Tyrod Taylor, Eric Wood and LeSean McCoy don't even garner the respect to be told by the team.
After the firing do any of these "leaders" have the courage to talk to the media? No. Of course not. Instead they send out the new interim coach, who is holding what is essentially his first press conference to answer the slew of questions that anybody with half of a brain could see coming. Many of those are not ones he should answer, but the media has no other place to turn to. So now he gets to set up and look like a fool because he is put in a position where success was not a practical option.

So now we know that EJ starting is a "business" decision. Which makes it impossible for him to accomplish anything. It also lets Tyrod know where he stands. It permeates down to other players and potential players who might want to come here who now think that this organization has no respect for anybody who works for the franchise, as long as they can cover their asses.

This team needs to have a complete cleaning. I am fine with Rex leaving - especially after Sunday. But in reality, he should have stayed over Brandon, Overdorf, and Whaley (the man who can't get along with head coaches and doesn't want to pay attention to their roster ideas) (and probably Taylor, but that's another discussion)

Right now, this team is the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of pro sports. In attempt to pretend that the leadership is serious about changing this perception heads need to be chopped.

Now.

It makes it impossible to get excited for anything they do and to want to spend my money at New Era Field next year and in the future. The way this team is run is utterly unprofessional and should embarrass all fans.
I couldn't agree more. You don't treat people like this. Nobody is going to want to come play for the Bills, nor coach them, if this kind of crap continues.

[Historian]

The organization made Anthony Lynn look completely inept. Hopefully this doesn't hurt his future job chances but after that I can't see why anyone, including the Bills, could seriously look at him being an NFL coach.

Whaley and Pegula should have both been at this presser and the questions about Tyrod and the situation in general with respect to Rex should have been handled by either Whaley, Pegula or both and not Lynn.

Lynn was hung out to dry and it makes everyone, especially ownership, look even more inept than he did himself.

That's how Brandon is going to market his promotion: Sympathy.

[Historian]

I have a 7 year old son he is more into soccer and does not want to play football but knows the Bills and a few other teams like Green Bay and San Diego.

We were watching the bills the other day and my wife asked if Bills were his favorite team and he said no the chargers were.

I know you are being semi-facetious Fox, but the reality is that the Bills have lost a generation of fans in the last 20 years.

My nephew is 20, and has followed the Pack since I can remember. For Christmas I gave him a vintage Packer Helmet phone.

In June, I gave him this for his birthday:
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p526x296/13319912_10209158614459585_2384692446614500348_n.jpg?oh=04d8cef7de51e163b2b5fb5b93d8bb24&oe=59212B53

And you know what? I'm happy for him. I'm glad he never started following the Bills.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I've actually been in Whaley's corner but this is a PR disaster

[Forward_Lateral]

If my daughter ever likes football, there's no way I'm letting her become a Bills fan. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

[justasportsfan]

Yet the record was pretty much the same and the offense was much better.

So let me get this straight - Rex gets the blame for the bad, but no credit for the good?

Is that your theory?


He gets credit for both, but the unit that is the weakest link is the one he is an expert of. Like I said, he is the one keeping us from moving forward.

HE EVEN BROUGHT HIS OWN BROTHER IN AND GOT RID OF HENDERSON. It's his own fault.

[justasportsfan]

Apparently Yardie and Justa think that Haslett would lead the Bills to the Super Bowl!


This is just dumb.

You may want the bills to end up the jets did under Rex . I don't.
You may like being the Pats ***** all the time, I don't. Now we're the dolphins ***** too.

Lets me guess, It's the front office's fault that the players gave up on the team against the steelers AT HOME????

[DraftBoy]

And the incompetence continues...

There have now been conflicting reports coming from the Bills about why Taylor was not at practice today. Some reports say he has a hamstring and groin injury while the team says it is a veteran's day off.

[Mr. Pink]

And the incompetence continues...

There have now been conflicting reports coming from the Bills about why Taylor was not at practice today. Some reports say he has a hamstring and groin injury while the team says it is a veteran's day off.

Maybe when Lynn mentioned hamstring in the presser it was because Tyrod actually has a hamstring issue.

OR

Reporters are still running with it because Lynn mentioned it.

[Arm of Harm]

This isn't difficult, Doc. Marrone inherited a 6 win team, and after two seasons had them at 9 wins. Wrecks inherited a 9 win team, and after two seasons has them at 7.

If you want to look at the long-term direction of the team, you should evaluate the following three things:

1) Player talent, especially "building block" players who will be high level contributors for a long period of time.
2) Coaching schemes, especially brilliant schemes that allow players to produce more than their talent level would indicate.
3) Players' motivation. This is partly a function of the players themselves, partly a function of the coaching staff's ability to motivate players.

Under Doug Marrone, we had good defensive coaching (Pettine and Schwartz), and lousy offensive coaching. Under Rex Ryan we've had mediocre defensive coaching, outstanding coaching with respect to our running game, and passing game coaching that's difficult to evaluate. The post-Wade coaches seem fairly similar to each other in their ability to motivate players. The only thing I'll add about player motivation is that sometimes a guy quietly working toward a disciplined plan can often do a better job of player motivation than a guy who relies heavily on the rah rah stuff.

You look at the successes this team has had, whether our defensive success under Schwartz or the current success of the running game. To the extent that success is based on coaching, you can sustain it by keeping the coaching and/or scheme that caused it. To the extent that it's based on players, you're more likely to be able to sustain it if it's based on long-term building block players, than if it's based on older players signed in free agency, or guys nearing the ends of their careers. The Bills have done a bad job on both these bases. Whenever we've gotten good coaching on one or the other side of the ball, we've typically failed to sustain that. The decision to fire Schwartz and replace his defensive scheme comes to mind. Likewise, the Bills have not built a solid core of building block players. Nor will we do so, as long as Doug Whaley is general manager. Because we consistently refuse to do the things necessary to sustain long-term success, whatever accomplishments this team achieves are almost certain to be fleeting, incomplete, and transitory.

This team has been stuck in 6-10 to 9-7 territory since seemingly forever. This is partly because a guy will use a strength in one area to help compensate for a weakness in another. Rex Ryan won't have a great defensive scheme, but he'll partially compensate with a really good running game. Doug Whaley won't have good drafts, but he'll partially compensate with some good free agent signings. The QB won't be good at throwing the ball, but he'll partially compensate by being better at running the ball than any other QB in the NFL. This weakness + partial compensation has acted as both floor and ceiling. The ceiling is low enough to keep us (barely) out of the playoffs. The floor is high enough to prevent us from obtaining a top-5 draft pick, or to cause the owner to give pink slips to those members of the front office who did the most to cause the mediocrity. The highest up the food chain the owner seems willing to go is to fire the head coach. And that, unfortunately, is not high enough.

[Dr. Lecter]

This is just dumb.

You may want the bills to end up the jets did under Rex . I don't.
You may like being the Pats ***** all the time, I don't. Now we're the dolphins ***** too.

Lets me guess, It's the front office's fault that the players gave up on the team against the steelers AT HOME????

Calling me dumb when you think that the franchise fall started two years ago is great. It's entertaining. It's amusing.
The fact is that Rex, for all his faults, has had more success as a football coach than Brandon has had running a sports franchise or that Whaley has had as a GM.

he certainly isn't a great coach. But the other two are pure 100% garbage.

[swiper]

Calling me dumb when you think that the franchise fall started two years ago is great. It's entertaining. It's amusing.
The fact is that Rex, for all his faults, has had more success as a football coach than Brandon has had running a sports franchise or that Whaley has had as a GM.

he certainly isn't a great coach. But the other two are pure 100% garbage.

coastal advises me not to take my football advice from a single white male who owns multiple cats. He claims you don't really understand what your friends meant when they told you to go out and get some pussy.

[justasportsfan]

I'd take the HC job and bring in the best coordinators available, let them do their job. Make the right calls, have a little bit of success, and be in a position to write your own ticket here or elsewhere. Make the wrong calls and go back to RB coach somewhere else with another item on the resume'.

Yardie for HC
McCoy for OC
Keep Kromer OL coach
Gus Bradley DC
Pagano for DB's coach
Dr. Lecter janitor.

[The Jokeman]

And the incompetence continues...

There have now been conflicting reports coming from the Bills about why Taylor was not at practice today. Some reports say he has a hamstring and groin injury while the team says it is a veteran's day off.

What does it matter any? Tyrod is not going to be playing Sunday.

[justasportsfan]

Calling me dumb when you think that the franchise fall started two years ago is great. It's entertaining. It's amusing.
The fact is that Rex, for all his faults, has had more success as a football coach than Brandon has had running a sports franchise or that Whaley has had as a GM.

he certainly isn't a great coach. But the other two are pure 100% garbage.

No, I called your post dumb. I never even mentioned Haslett.

you're living in the past. Might as well call Marv Levy back . He's had more success than Rex as a HC.

Look at our D. FACT is ,it's garbage . Fact is, Defensive genius inherited a top D. If defensive genius had a brain he wouldn't have tampered with it like Gruden when he inherited Gungy's D in Tampa and won a sb.

Wade took the Broncos D and made it no. 1 and won a sb.

Rex brings his brother in and we get owned by the fins in franchise record beating and so with the steelers. Their father would have disowned them.
Since you like facts.....FACT: not even Dick Jaurons D was never bullied in such a manner by AFCE rivals.

[Dr. Lecter]

No, I called your post dumb. I never even mentioned Haslett.

you're living in the past. Might as well call Marv Levy back . He's had more success than Rex as a HC.

Look at our D. FACT is ,it's garbage . Fact is, Defensive genius inherited a top D. If defensive genius had a brain he wouldn't have tampered with it like Gruden when he inherited Gungy's D in Tampa and won a sb.

Wade took the Broncos D and made it no. 1 and won a sb.

Rex brings his brother in and we get owned by the fins in franchise record beating and so with the steelers. Their father would have disowned them.
Since you like facts.....FACT: not even Dick Jaurons D was never bullied in such a manner by AFCE rivals.
Ok, I know this takes a while to sink in - but the organization as a whole is a mess. The upper management is incompetent in every way.

And you can continue to harp on the defense. The last time I looked, the more important numbers are wins and losses. And his record isn't any worse or better than the other clowns that have been here.

The upper management and the direction they set remains horrendous. As does their treatment of people.

[Mouldsie]

My speculation (hope?) is the Wrecks hire had Brandon's fingerprints all over it, and the announcement that Whaley will be leading this search is a dual message...to Russ "Yeah, thanks for nothing, we'll pass on your opinion this go-round" and to Doug "Here's your chance to put up or shut up and go bye-bye too".
This is the glass half full take we have to cling to for any hope

[justasportsfan]

Ok, I know this takes a while to sink in - but the organization as a whole is a mess. The upper management is incompetent in every way.

And you can continue to harp on the defense. The last time I looked, the more important numbers are wins and losses. And his record isn't any worse or better than the other clowns that have been here.

The upper management and the direction they set remains horrendous. As does their treatment of people.

The organization is/was a mess. I already acknowledged that when they hired Rex. When they hired a coach who is all talk. Why is that hard for you to understand?

[YardRat]

Ok, I know this takes a while to sink in - but the organization as a whole is a mess. The upper management is incompetent in every way.

And you can continue to harp on the defense. The last time I looked, the more important numbers are wins and losses. And his record isn't any worse or better than the other clowns that have been here.

The upper management and the direction they set remains horrendous. As does their treatment of people.

You keep harping on wins and losses relative to Wrecks and for some reason refuse to acknowledge that his resume is consistently a downward curve regarding those W's and L's. This is his win total, by season, with the team's W's the prior year he took over...(9)-9-11-8-6-8-4-(9)-8-7. Only twice out of eight total seasons, including both with Buffalo, his team's W-L record was better than the year before.

He inherited a team with a winning record in NY, and save for two 2-win bumps, drove the team into the ground. He inherited a team with a winning record in Buffalo, and has driven them into the ground also. Does he have a better winning percentage in Buffalo than most of his predecessors for their time spent here? Yes. Did any of the others walk into a team that already had a top 4 defense and above average special teams built? No.

As a matter of fact, Wrecks stands alone with Joe Collier as the ONLY new head coaches in the team's entire history that took over a Bills team that posted a winning record the season before. Collier took his team to the league championship...Wrecks took his to a .500 record and destroyed the defense.

Brandon by no means is 'all that', and the sooner he gets his nose completely out of the organization the better. Whaley has his warts also, and there are certainly legitimate arguments for jettisoning him too, but comparatively speaking Wrecks is far worse than them AND this latest series of events is no where near an 'all-time' low for the organization.

[YardRat]

I couldn't agree more. You don't treat people like this. Nobody is going to want to come play for the Bills, nor coach them, if this kind of crap continues.

Yeah, no.

We've been down this road too many times before (Saban quitting twice, Knox leaving, Polian leaving, Butler being 'let go', Wade having to fight for his guaranteed money, Mularkey quitting, Marrone quitting...Every time people panic and claim 'Oh no! Nobody is going to want to come to Buffalo!' and every time, there's no issue finding a coach...or GM...or players.

Money talks, and Pegula has plenty to throw around.

[jimmifli]

Yeah, no.

We've been down this road too many times before (Saban quitting twice, Knox leaving, Polian leaving, Butler being 'let go', Wade having to fight for his guaranteed money, Mularkey quitting, Marrone quitting...Every time people panic and claim 'Oh no! Nobody is going to want to come to Buffalo!' and every time, there's no issue finding a coach...or GM...or players.

Really? Because I can't think of the last time we hired a coach that had other teams beating down his door. There's no issue finding a warm body willing to get paid a couple million trying to fix the unfixable, but that's different from finding a coach or a GM.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Schwartz wasn't fired. If I remember correctly, he was asked to continue as DC under Rex and declined the opportunity.

Smart man.

[Mace]

Schwartz wasn't fired. If I remember correctly, he was asked to continue as DC under Rex and declined the opportunity.

Smart man.

Management inexplicably assumed Rex would keep Schwartz, despite incompatible philosophies. Rex terminated Schwartz' contract.

http://buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/01/rex_ryan_explains_firing_jim_schwartz_says_buffalo_bills_defense_will_rank_no_1.html

[Forward_Lateral]

Rex had the best winning pct. by a Buffalo head coach over a 2 year span since Wade Phillips.

Think about that for a minute.

Who in their right mind would want to come coach a team that just ran it's most successful head coach in 20 years out of town? Who? Tom Coughlin? Ha. Why the hell would he want to touch this team with a 10 foot pole?

This franchise is doomed to repeat it's 2-4 year cycle over and over and over again. Hire head coach. Set ridiculously high expectations, sell the team like crazy to the fans, team flops, fire coach. Repeat. Again. Again. Again. Again.

[Dr. Lecter]

The organization is/was a mess. I already acknowledged that when they hired Rex. When they hired a coach who is all talk. Why is that hard for you to understand?

Because you said he was the biggest problem with the team. He's wasn't even close to the biggest problem

He's merely a symptom

[sahlensguy]

Because you said he was the biggest problem with the team. He's wasn't even close to the biggest problem

He's merely a symptom

Its boils down to culture.

What's a Bill anyway, and what is that Buffalo on the helmet doing with half of a rainbow scewering it's ass?

[sukie]

Perhaps the FO isn't the problem at all. Maybe, just maybe, a new color scheme and Logo carpet is all that is needed t attract free agents and change the culture.

[Dr. Lecter]

You keep harping on wins and losses relative to Wrecks and for some reason refuse to acknowledge that his resume is consistently a downward curve regarding those W's and L's. This is his win total, by season, with the team's W's the prior year he took over...(9)-9-11-8-6-8-4-(9)-8-7. Only twice out of eight total seasons, including both with Buffalo, his team's W-L record was better than the year before.

He inherited a team with a winning record in NY, and save for two 2-win bumps, drove the team into the ground. He inherited a team with a winning record in Buffalo, and has driven them into the ground also. Does he have a better winning percentage in Buffalo than most of his predecessors for their time spent here? Yes. Did any of the others walk into a team that already had a top 4 defense and above average special teams built? No.

As a matter of fact, Wrecks stands alone with Joe Collier as the ONLY new head coaches in the team's entire history that took over a Bills team that posted a winning record the season before. Collier took his team to the league championship...Wrecks took his to a .500 record and destroyed the defense.

Brandon by no means is 'all that', and the sooner he gets his nose completely out of the organization the better. Whaley has his warts also, and there are certainly legitimate arguments for jettisoning him too, but comparatively speaking Wrecks is far worse than them AND this latest series of events is no where near an 'all-time' low for the organization.

Can you stop with the silliness of him make the record worse?

Marrone went 9-7, with one win coming against a team that played a pre-season game in week 17. Now, you can dismiss that because it doesn't fit your narrative and that's all peachy. But the next year they were 8-8 and if they treated this weeks game like a regular game would likely be 8-8 again. I just don't get as satisfied as you are with a 9-7 record. I know that you can sit there and act is Marrone had this team chugging along, but that's BS and I know you know it so why keep up the false narrative? The fact is, the on the field product with Ryan is the same as it has been during most of this run - good enough to be mediocre and that's it. Some years the offense is good.Some years the defense is good. Some years neither is. (and you might want to look at the special teams claim closer, they were damn good last year and were **** under Marrone. Remember the cries to dump Crossman? )

And no - Brandon has been part of this team for the entire drought. Whaley has been here as GM for two head coaches and gotten long with neither.His drafts are crap.

Not to mention those two are the supposed to leadership team here and their actions the last month have been deplorable, which is a bigger issue than the one you keep going back to. They left Ryan and Lynn to face the media by themselves while hiding in the background. But I am sure when something happens that is perceived as positive they will be out there front and center.

It's the way they treat people and refuse to have any availability or face any consequences that is the bigger issue and is a stunning lack of leadership.

maybe you enjoyed them letting it happen to Ryan. heaven knows you act like this guy just killed your puppy. But rather you want to acknowledge it or not, Ryan is but one small part of the mess that is there.

And the false narrative that he took a "winning" team and destroyed is so mind numbingly not supported by facts it's difficult to discuss when that's your starting point. It's simply false.

[sahlensguy]

Perhaps the FO isn't the problem at all. Maybe, just maybe, a new color scheme and Logo carpet is all that is needed t attract free agents and change the culture.


Hey, climate change can't hurt either.

[The King]

Rex had the best winning pct. by a Buffalo head coach over a 2 year span since Wade Phillips.

Think about that for a minute.

Who in their right mind would want to come coach a team that just ran it's most successful head coach in 20 years out of town? Who? Tom Coughlin? Ha. Why the hell would he want to touch this team with a 10 foot pole?

This franchise is doomed to repeat it's 2-4 year cycle over and over and over again. Hire head coach. Set ridiculously high expectations, sell the team like crazy to the fans, team flops, fire coach. Repeat. Again. Again. Again. Again.

Look at what happened Sunday. Rex blows a timeout call. He puts 10 men on the field because he's unaware of a player in concussion protocol. He punts in a must win situation, 10 men hit the field again. Rex may have a brilliant football mind but this team was spiraling out of control. He has no control over Jerry Hughes or Marcel Dareus, he inherited a 9-7 and fell to 8-8 twice with absolutely no sign of optimism. They had to fire him, this team was unraveling way too fast.

I believe Rex tried he wanted to succeed, but during his time here did we steal even one game? We beat ****ty teams, that's about it.

Now, I don't think Lynn is going to work either... we need a coach who has a rock solid philosophy to turn this around. Lynn may be a great up and comer but he's too wet behind the ears to contend with this front office.

[Forward_Lateral]

Look at what happened Sunday. Rex blows a timeout call. He puts 10 men on the field because he's unaware of a player in concussion protocol. He punts in a must win situation, 10 men hit the field again. Rex may have a brilliant football mind but this team was spiraling out of control. He has no control over Jerry Hughes or Marcel Dareus, he inherited a 9-7 and fell to 8-8 twice with absolutely no sign of optimism. They had to fire him, this team was unraveling way too fast.

I believe Rex tried he wanted to succeed, but during his time here did we steal even one game? We beat ****ty teams, that's about it.

Now, I don't think Lynn is going to work either... we need a coach who has a rock solid philosophy to turn this around. Lynn may be a great up and comer but he's too wet behind the ears to contend with this front office.

Oh I understand why they fired him. His job was done a few weeks ago, IMO. My problem is the way that all of this took place. If you were going to fire Rex anyways, you should've done it a few weeks ago. That would've given ample time to judge Lynn as a HC, and to put EJ/Cardale at QB and see if they show anything.
Instead, you wait until the final week of the season, announce it on twitter, and basically use Lynn as a puppet for the press. Nice way to treat your exiting Head Coach, and also your interim.

Not to mention Whaley/Brandon/Pegula/Whoever the eff is in charge, didn't tell any of the players about it. Didn't hold a team meeting, didn't look players in the eye, didn't hold anyone accountable other than Rex and Rob. What about Thurman? He's not responsible for the terrible defense? You fire Roman after 2 games because the offense is poop, but Thurman lasts an entire season? Even after you fire Rex? How do you not toss him out on his rear end as well? Ed Reed? He couldn't coach high school football, let alone an NFL team. He still has a job.

How do you let Rex Ryan hire 27 assistant coaches? How is this even possible? Most NFL teams have 15. You let Rex hire close to double that?

Rex is the scapegoat. I get that he's the Head Coach, and they always get the majority of the blame. My problem is that there is no accountability at the top. 2 head coaches in a row have butted heads repeatedly with Whaley. This organization is a complete joke.

The Bills will now look for their 3rd Head coach in 4 seasons, which will probably be fired after a couple of years anyways.

[Fixxxer]

Rex had the best winning pct. by a Buffalo head coach over a 2 year span since Wade Phillips.

Think about that for a minute.

Who in their right mind would want to come coach a team that just ran it's most successful head coach in 20 years out of town? Who? Tom Coughlin? Ha. Why the hell would he want to touch this team with a 10 foot pole?

This franchise is doomed to repeat it's 2-4 year cycle over and over and over again. Hire head coach. Set ridiculously high expectations, sell the team like crazy to the fans, team flops, fire coach. Repeat. Again. Again. Again. Again.

You know damn well why Ryan was fired. He inherited a top 4 defense in points scored and made it awful, and it progressively got worse, with added players and his brother as his confident. He brought his brother and the defense got worse, historically worse I might add, there was no turning back.

The pegulas chose poorly in their first HC decision. Hope they learned their lesson.

[trapezeus]

Rex had the best winning pct. by a Buffalo head coach over a 2 year span since Wade Phillips.

Think about that for a minute.

Who in their right mind would want to come coach a team that just ran it's most successful head coach in 20 years out of town? Who? Tom Coughlin? Ha. Why the hell would he want to touch this team with a 10 foot pole?

This franchise is doomed to repeat it's 2-4 year cycle over and over and over again. Hire head coach. Set ridiculously high expectations, sell the team like crazy to the fans, team flops, fire coach. Repeat. Again. Again. Again. Again.

a coach who aspires to have more than a .500 record. I think good coaches will avoid the bills inner circle that meddles in stuff they shouldn't for 20 years and has the ear of ownership. the record won't come into play for future coaches.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Management inexplicably assumed Rex would keep Schwartz, despite incompatible philosophies. Rex terminated Schwartz' contract.

http://buffalonews.com/2016/02/13/bills-pairing-of-rex-ryan-jim-schwartz-never-stood-a-chance/

http://www.syracuse.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2015/01/rex_ryan_explains_firing_jim_schwartz_says_buffalo_bills_defense_will_rank_no_1.html

Marrone quit and Schwartz had two years left on his contract.

Of course management wanted to keep him, he'd done a great job, but he was never in a million years going to be Rex Ryan's DC.

So, by letting them terminate his contract, he gets paid for all three years and gets out from under what any intelligent person could see coming.

Your two links are funny. The first one is pro Schwartz, the second is pro Ryan.

Read both of them and then tell me who the big mouth douchebag is...

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Oh I understand why they fired him. His job was done a few weeks ago, IMO. My problem is the way that all of this took place. If you were going to fire Rex anyways, you should've done it a few weeks ago. That would've given ample time to judge Lynn as a HC, and to put EJ/Cardale at QB and see if they show anything.
Instead, you wait until the final week of the season,

I have no problem with the timing, we were still alive in the playoff hunt. Had we beaten Miami, we'd have a realistic playoff clinching scenario on Sunday. That said:


announce it on twitter, and basically use Lynn as a puppet for the press.

This was poorly handled as at it possibly be.

[SpikedLemonade]

These past few weeks/month are marking a new low point in the relatively low history of this team.

Let's look back at the recent history of the team

Rex Ryan, like him or not, was crapped on by this team and the management. Somebody in the front office starts to leak word that his time is coming to an end with the team still alive for the playoffs. But the word gets out anyway that he is about to be gone. Nobody in team management (Pegula, Brandon, Whaley, etc) makes any comments. Nothing. Not even the routine "He's our coach and we are sticking by him." type of comments that are made. This ends up completely undermining any authority that he has and all it does is make it even more difficult for him to succeed. This is NOT a defense of Ryan or a request for him to stay. But this is not the way to treat your coach. Either show your support for the coach or (better yet) stop the leaks like this. Maybe even both would work!!)

Now we have this week's actions. Rex Ryan gets fired. First the team announces it on Twitter and does not even meet with the team or any of it's leaders. So players like Kyle Williams, Tyrod Taylor, Eric Wood and LeSean McCoy don't even garner the respect to be told by the team.
After the firing do any of these "leaders" have the courage to talk to the media? No. Of course not. Instead they send out the new interim coach, who is holding what is essentially his first press conference to answer the slew of questions that anybody with half of a brain could see coming. Many of those are not ones he should answer, but the media has no other place to turn to. So now he gets to set up and look like a fool because he is put in a position where success was not a practical option.

So now we know that EJ starting is a "business" decision. Which makes it impossible for him to accomplish anything. It also lets Tyrod know where he stands. It permeates down to other players and potential players who might want to come here who now think that this organization has no respect for anybody who works for the franchise, as long as they can cover their asses.

This team needs to have a complete cleaning. I am fine with Rex leaving - especially after Sunday. But in reality, he should have stayed over Brandon, Overdorf, and Whaley (the man who can't get along with head coaches and doesn't want to pay attention to their roster ideas) (and probably Taylor, but that's another discussion)

Right now, this team is the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of pro sports. In attempt to pretend that the leadership is serious about changing this perception heads need to be chopped.

Now.

It makes it impossible to get excited for anything they do and to want to spend my money at New Era Field next year and in the future. The way this team is run is utterly unprofessional and should embarrass all fans.



The way they handled the cheerleader situation a few years ago was enough for me to almost stop watching.

You are a $1.4B company and you want to pay the cheerleaders less than minimum wage.


DISGUSTING

[YardRat]

Really? Because I can't think of the last time we hired a coach that had other teams beating down his door. There's no issue finding a warm body willing to get paid a couple million trying to fix the unfixable, but that's different from finding a coach or a GM.

Is it? Wrecks was the biggest name out there and allegedly a 'given' to go to Atlanta until the Falcons dragged their feet a couple of days (or smartened up after getting a quick fill of his bluster, IMO). Hue Jackson thought the job was his. You think Knox wasn't a desirable hire when Buffalo wanted him? I'm thinking you're too young (maybe not even born yet) to remember the hype that followed him into town.

[YardRat]

Can you stop with the silliness of him make the record worse?

Marrone went 9-7, with one win coming against a team that played a pre-season game in week 17. Now, you can dismiss that because it doesn't fit your narrative and that's all peachy. But the next year they were 8-8 and if they treated this weeks game like a regular game would likely be 8-8 again. I just don't get as satisfied as you are with a 9-7 record. I know that you can sit there and act is Marrone had this team chugging along, but that's BS and I know you know it so why keep up the false narrative? The fact is, the on the field product with Ryan is the same as it has been during most of this run - good enough to be mediocre and that's it. Some years the offense is good.Some years the defense is good. Some years neither is. (and you might want to look at the special teams claim closer, they were damn good last year and were **** under Marrone. Remember the cries to dump Crossman? )

And no - Brandon has been part of this team for the entire drought. Whaley has been here as GM for two head coaches and gotten long with neither.His drafts are crap.

Not to mention those two are the supposed to leadership team here and their actions the last month have been deplorable, which is a bigger issue than the one you keep going back to. They left Ryan and Lynn to face the media by themselves while hiding in the background. But I am sure when something happens that is perceived as positive they will be out there front and center.

It's the way they treat people and refuse to have any availability or face any consequences that is the bigger issue and is a stunning lack of leadership.

maybe you enjoyed them letting it happen to Ryan. heaven knows you act like this guy just killed your puppy. But rather you want to acknowledge it or not, Ryan is but one small part of the mess that is there.

And the false narrative that he took a "winning" team and destroyed is so mind numbingly not supported by facts it's difficult to discuss when that's your starting point. It's simply false.
It's absolutely supported by facts. 9-7 is a winning record. 8 is less than 9...7 is less than 8. Numbers are pretty easy to grasp. Google it, if you won't take my word for it.

[Mace]

Marrone quit and Schwartz had two years left on his contract.

Of course management wanted to keep him, he'd done a great job, but he was never in a million years going to be Rex Ryan's DC.

So, by letting them terminate his contract, he gets paid for all three years and gets out from under what any intelligent person could see coming.

Your two links are funny. The first one is pro Schwartz, the second is pro Ryan.

Read both of them and then tell me who the big mouth douchebag is...

Oh, I knew from the start Ryan was the big mouth douchebag. There was no way he and Schwartz were compatible. In fact I was shocked when I read the Buffalo News Article when it came out...they actually thought Ryan would keep Schwartz, and Schwartz would stay ? It was football 101 how different their schemes were.

To me it's not so much funny as sad. Ryan came here selling blowhard promises and people were desperate enough to try and buy into it. Right up until the 6th game of this season I was hoping and trying to pretend Ryan might work, but out of the necessity of circumstance, I mean he wasn't going anywhere. Complained loudly right from the start though, thought hiring him was a terrible knee jerk idea.

[Dr. Lecter]

It's absolutely supported by facts. 9-7 is a winning record. 8 is less than 9...7 is less than 8. Numbers are pretty easy to grasp. Google it, if you won't take my word for it.

And a winning percentage of 46.9 is better than 48.3. Those numbers are easy to grasp.

Google works for them too

[YardRat]

And a winning percentage of 46.9 is better than 48.3. Those numbers are easy to grasp.
Google works for them too

lol...Well, that clears up a few things...

[justasportsfan]

And a winning percentage of 46.9 is better than 48.3. Those numbers are easy to grasp.

Google works for them too

Rex is Marrones *****. Beat defensive genius with EJ Manuel. Just stating fact.

[Dr. Lecter]

lol...Well, that clears up a few things...

Typed them backwards - dammit

48.3 is better than 46.9

The evil Rex had a better winning % than Marrone.

Interesting.

[Mace]

Typed them backwards - dammit

48.3 is better than 46.9

The evil Rex had a better winning % than Marrone.

Interesting.

Interesting that you don't proofread your posts as well before hitting the button, Lecter.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Oh, I knew from the start Ryan was the big mouth douchebag. There was no way he and Schwartz were compatible. In fact I was shocked when I read the Buffalo News Article when it came out...they actually thought Ryan would keep Schwartz, and Schwartz would stay ? It was football 101 how different their schemes were.

To me it's not so much funny as sad. Ryan came here selling blowhard promises and people were desperate enough to try and buy into it. Right up until the 6th game of this season I was hoping and trying to pretend Ryan might work, but out of the necessity of circumstance, I mean he wasn't going anywhere. Complained loudly right from the start though, thought hiring him was a terrible knee jerk idea.

I was astonished that ANYONE thought it was a good idea.

Rex Ryan and his brother are AWFUL football coaches as well as shameless self-promoters.

Rexy's line about having the the fourth rated defense being a disappointment because Rexy would have had the top rated defense was absolutely disgusting.

Rex Ryan is a piece of ****.

I have absolutely no respect for him as a man or a football coach.

Good riddance.

[TacklingDummy]

Just wish Rex had a QB during his coaching career like Belicheck, Levy, Walsh, Seifert, Knoll, Landry, Johnson, Shula, Holgrem, Carroll, Coughlin, Tomlin, etc...

[Mr. Pink]

Hey, I liked Lecter's new version of math.

Math is too complicated anyway.

[SpikedLemonade]

Hey, I liked Lecter's new version of math.

Math is too complicated anyway.



I send a vector to Lecter.

It is travelling from Hamilton to Buffalo at a slope of 5 degrees south southeast at a speed of 60 miles an hour,

Anyone know how long it was take to get to Lecter?

I love math.

FU if you don't.

90 degree right angles are your friend.

[YardRat]

I don't want to come off as a fanboy of the front office. Brandon is a weasel with zero football knowledge and a Wizard of Oz business model for promotion and selling tickets. Whaley's record is spotty at best as a GM, and the organization was woefully remiss not being far more up front and center handling the situation the past few weeks. I get it, and don't disagree with that. However, IMO there have been far worse debacles in the past, not only from a PR standpoint but an ethical one.

Also, I simply can't overlook the facts that A) This coaching staff was handed a top 4 defense and above average special teams. The aspect that held back Marrone's team was a woeful offense....B)Like it or not, Wrecks' first off season was addressed by Whaley and Co to upgrade that aspect that was failing, the offense. They acquired a shiny new RB...a shiny new TE...a gadget WR that was one of Wrecks' guys...a FA QB that Wrecks wanted...offensive linemen that were better than what we had at the time (Incognito especially, Miller to a lesser degree)...a coordinator with experience. Not much more could be done to try to be better than the year before, and have a legit shot at the playoffs. And what happened? The 'defensive genius' ****ed up what is supposedly his specialty.

I firmly believe that everything else being the same, a different head coach hire and this team makes the playoffs in 2015. The fact that they didn't is partially on ownership and the front office for hiring a carnival barker instead of a coach, but the vast majority of the blame sits on the shoulders of the guy that was gifted with an opportunity and whose hubris made it worse, not better.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Maybe because my show business career enabled me to interact with world class bulls hitters and shameless self promoters, Rexy's act never impressed me.

Rex is all about Rex, just like all those other guys were all about them. They had no real passion for what they could do, only where it could get them.

Rex may be a loser as a football coach, but he's a winner when it comes to padding his bank account.

5 years... 27.5 million...

For Rex Ryan...

The mind boggles...

[swiper]

I was astonished that ANYONE thought it was a good idea.

Rex Ryan and his brother are AWFUL football coaches as well as shameless self-promoters.

Rexy's line about having the the fourth rated defense being a disappointment because Rexy would have had the top rated defense was absolutely disgusting.

Rex Ryan is a piece of ****.

I have absolutely no respect for him as a man or a football coach.

Good riddance.

Exactly how I feel.

Letting Schwartz out of town was the biggest mistake of the past 5 years.

[feldspar]

Maybe because my show business career enabled me to interact with world class bulls hitters and shameless self promoters, Rexy's act never impressed me.

Rex is all about Rex, just like all those other guys were all about them. They had no real passion for what they could do, only where it could get them.

Rex may be a loser as a football coach, but he's a winner when it comes to padding his bank account.

5 years... 27.5 million...

For Rex Ryan...

The mind boggles...

Actually, it was TWO years...$27.5 million.

Ended up that way.

Incredible.

[swiper]

I firmly believe that everything else being the same, a different head coach hire and this team makes the playoffs in 2015.

If that coach was Schwartz, there is no question.

[GingerP]

If that coach was Schwartz, there is no question.

I don't get how Jim Schwartz would be the savior. He did a great job here as DC and is generally good in that role, but he wasn't a good head coach. He won about 1/3rd of his games over 5 years in Detroit. When he was HC, his defenses ranked in the bottom half of the NFL. He was basically a skinny Rex Ryan.

[Dr. Lecter]

I don't want to come off as a fanboy of the front office. Brandon is a weasel with zero football knowledge and a Wizard of Oz business model for promotion and selling tickets. Whaley's record is spotty at best as a GM, and the organization was woefully remiss not being far more up front and center handling the situation the past few weeks. I get it, and don't disagree with that. However, IMO there have been far worse debacles in the past, not only from a PR standpoint but an ethical one.

Also, I simply can't overlook the facts that A) This coaching staff was handed a top 4 defense and above average special teams. The aspect that held back Marrone's team was a woeful offense....B)Like it or not, Wrecks' first off season was addressed by Whaley and Co to upgrade that aspect that was failing, the offense. They acquired a shiny new RB...a shiny new TE...a gadget WR that was one of Wrecks' guys...a FA QB that Wrecks wanted...offensive linemen that were better than what we had at the time (Incognito especially, Miller to a lesser degree)...a coordinator with experience. Not much more could be done to try to be better than the year before, and have a legit shot at the playoffs. And what happened? The 'defensive genius' ****ed up what is supposedly his specialty.

I firmly believe that everything else being the same, a different head coach hire and this team makes the playoffs in 2015. The fact that they didn't is partially on ownership and the front office for hiring a carnival barker instead of a coach, but the vast majority of the blame sits on the shoulders of the guy that was gifted with an opportunity and whose hubris made it worse, not better.

Except you continue to ignore that these people (Brandon and Whaley) have been around for a long time with no success. Why would have 2015 been so different? This team has been on a pattern of having one aspect of the team working well and the other not for 17 years now. It's hardly like "Wrecks" (and a silly 7th grade name doesn't help you, but it makes you feel good) was the first coach to have this problem. it's also interesting that Marrone, an offensive coach, gets a complete free ride from you for a woeful offense and none of it was his fault, but everything on defense was Ryan's fault. Of course, it's all irrelevant because he wanted no part of working with Whaley, which is part of the problem with Whaley. So to act as if he is only a tiny part to blame is ignoring the obvious.

You also assume that Ryan wanted Taylor and that he was his first choice, which I really haven't seen evidence of - except he was the best of the cesspool to pick from.

And none of this changes the simple fact (that you also ignore) that in his career Ryan has had more success as a head coach than Whaley has had as a GM or that Brandon has had running a football organization.

The team is now on 17 years straight of no playoffs, in an era when a higher percentage of teams make the playoffs and turnover is higher because of FA and the salary cap. When was the last time they had a run of 17 years with no playoffs? And those 17 are somehow mostly Ryan's fault?

As for the special teams claim, last year they were ranked 16 by the Dallas Morning News. The year before - 31st. So, as have I been saying, that simply isn't true but you keep repeating it.

So you're wrong on Rex ruining the special teams too.

the point of this wasn't a defense of Ryan. Not at all. You tried to turn it into a rage that he ruined the team, but there is nothing really to back it up. The team is a cesspool and a mess that in the last month **** on two coaches (Ryan and Lynn) and the upper management has yet to field a single question from the media about firing a coach and benching a QB in a "Business decision" that they made. They threw a guy with limited media experience to the wolves without a second thought for a press conference that was extremely difficult.

But if you insist on making this all about Ryan, the single fact remains that his winning percentage is higher than any coach since Phillips. It still wasn't good enough. But to make him the single scapegoat for this is mind boggling.

The problems run deeper. A root cause analysis, which isn't too difficult, would lead back to a rot that is much higher than him. Was he the right guy for the job? Probably not.

But we sure as hell know that vile stench from above is a killer and that Brandon and Whaley are not fit, either from a football skill standpoint or from a how to treat people to standpoint. You can try to make it all Ryan's fault. But that sure as hell does NOT explain all the other seasons when he wasn't here.

[swiper]

Schwartz was 29-51 in five seasons as the Detroit Lions head coach from 2009 to 2013, leading the team to a 10-6 record and the playoffs (first since 1999) three years after the team finished with a 0-16 record.

I don't think he's as unsuccessful as you recall. He had 3 good seasons (read play-offs), then things went south for the team. Above quote from this article, which mentions Schwartz as a potential Bills coaching candidate:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/could-eagles-dc-jim-schwartz-be-on-the-move/

[swiper]

NFL Network reporter Albert Breer tweeted that Philadelphia Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz could be a candidate for the Bills head coaching position. Schwartz is one game away from wrapping up his first season as Eagles defensive coordinator.


Albert Breer ✔ @AlbertBreer
Interim coach Anthony Lynn will certainly get a shot at the full-time gig in Buffalo. Another guy they could kick tires on: Jim Schwartz.
1:25 PM - 27 Dec 2016

Schwartz to Buffalo would make sense based on recent history with the coach and the franchise. When Schwartz spent his one season as the Bills defensive coordinator in 2014, Buffalo finished fourth in the NFL in points per game (18.1) and yards per game (312.2) allowed.

Schwartz was not retained due to Doug Marrone resigning as Bills head coach after the 2014 season and Ryan deciding to bring in his own personnel once he was hired in 2015.

Just conjecture on Breer's part...

[YardRat]

Except you continue to ignore that these people (Brandon and Whaley) have been around for a long time with no success.

Brandon is a cluster-**** when it comes to actual football. I've already acknowledged that. Whaley helped build a dominant defense and above average special teams and had them in place for the newcomer. Did it result in playoffs? No. But they were thisclose, and you know it.


Why would have 2015 been so different? This team has been on a pattern of having one aspect of the team working well and the other not for 17 years now.

IMO a different head coach, coupled with the new offensive additions and maintaining what was already proven to be successful and the team gets better. Don't think that's a stretch. If Marrone and most of the coaching staff stayed, and Whaley added all of the same players, and even the same coordinator, can you honestly say you wouldn't have been optimistic about the 2015 season?



It's hardly like "Wrecks" (and a silly 7th grade name doesn't help you, but it makes you feel good) was the first coach to have this problem. it's also interesting that Marrone, an offensive coach, gets a complete free ride from you for a woeful offense and none of it was his fault, but everything on defense was Ryan's fault. Of course, it's all irrelevant because he wanted no part of working with Whaley, which is part of the problem with Whaley. So to act as if he is only a tiny part to blame is ignoring the obvious.

I think it's great, and turns out a bullseye. I do like it. Hell, I've typed it so much I don't think I can roll with the regular name if I tried. Marrone was a moron, and I never gave him a free ride. Go re-visit the threads.

You also assume that Ryan wanted Taylor and that he was his first choice, which I really haven't seen evidence of - except he was the best of the cesspool to pick from.


I'm not assuming anything based on a myriad of reports. It's pretty much common knowledge Wrecks wanted Taylor, IIRC he even said as much.

And none of this changes the simple fact (that you also ignore) that in his career Ryan has had more success as a head coach than Whaley has had as a GM or that Brandon has had running a football organization.


Based on what? Inheriting a winning team and taking them to the playoffs two years? Big deal, it's all been downhill for the most part...I don't consider that too successful.

The team is now on 17 years straight of no playoffs, in an era when a higher percentage of teams make the playoffs and turnover is higher because of FA and the salary cap. When was the last time they had a run of 17 years with no playoffs? And those 17 are somehow mostly Ryan's fault?


No. The last two seasons are Wryan's fault.

As for the special teams claim, last year they were ranked 16 by the Dallas Morning News. The year before - 31st. So, as have I been saying, that simply isn't true but you keep repeating it.

You're right, I have been slightly wrong about the special teams being 'above average'. Your boy Gosselin had them ranked #2 after 2014, behind only Philadelphia.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboysheadlines/2015/01/23/chip-kelly-s-commitment-helps-eagles-soar-to-first-in-sportsday-s-annual-nfl-special-teams-rankings

The special teams weren't 'above average'...they were 'dominant', just like the defense. My bad. And Wrecks ruined them also, apparently, if they went from #2 to #31.


So you're wrong on Rex ruining the special teams too.

No, I think you mixed up the numbers again. Second in 2014...16 in 2015.

the point of this wasn't a defense of Ryan. Not at all. You tried to turn it into a rage that he ruined the team, but there is nothing really to back it up.

C'mon...at least try to be serious.


The team is a cesspool and a mess that in the last month **** on two coaches (Ryan and Lynn) and the upper management has yet to field a single question from the media about firing a coach and benching a QB in a "Business decision" that they made. They threw a guy with limited media experience to the wolves without a second thought for a press conference that was extremely difficult.


I've already agreed they should have been more up front. They should have at least had their own presser. However, IMO that's minor compared to what Wrecks has done the last two seasons, driving them down and loading up his buddies pockets with Pegula's money.

But if you insist on making this all about Ryan, the single fact remains that his winning percentage is higher than any coach since Phillips. It still wasn't good enough. But to make him the single scapegoat for this is mind boggling.

He isn't the single scapegoat and I've never said he was. He's just the biggest one IMO, and that's where our disagreement lies. I don't know why you're so enamored with Wryan and so intent on defending him. He fubared us the last two seasons, and it's obvious.


The problems run deeper. A root cause analysis, which isn't too difficult, would lead back to a rot that is much higher than him. Was he the right guy for the job? Probably not.
But we sure as hell know that vile stench from above is a killer and that Brandon and Whaley are not fit, either from a football skill standpoint or from a how to treat people to standpoint. You can try to make it all Ryan's fault. But that sure as hell does NOT explain all the other seasons when he wasn't here.

I'm not blaming Wrecks for this century, just the last two seasons. We all know Brandon needs to be removed from football as much as possible. That doesn't excuse the last two season's coaching. You can harp on Whaley all you want, but you can't exactly blame him for the full 17 seasons either, now can you? Pegs either.

If you want to vent over the last seventeen seasons, you're kind of running out of candidates. Ralph is gone. So is Littman. Pegs and Whaley are new. That pretty much leaves Brandon, Overdorf, Berchtold and Bud Carpenter.

[GingerP]

I don't think he's as unsuccessful as you recall. He had 3 good seasons (read play-offs), then things went south for the team. Above quote from this article, which mentions Schwartz as a potential Bills coaching candidate:

http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/could-eagles-dc-jim-schwartz-be-on-the-move/

He had one wild-card team that went 10-6 and lost in the first round. He went 2-14, 6-10, 10-6, 4-12 & 7-9. Those aren't great records considering he had a young, franchise QB the whole time (Matthew Stafford). He acted like an asshat at times, and ultimately was fired because Stafford wasn't developing. His defenses in Detroit were in the bottom half of the NFL in points and yards. Classic good DC who is out of his element as a HC, not unlike Ryan.

[Historian]

If you want to vent over the last seventeen seasons, you're kind of running out of candidates. Ralph is gone. So is Littman. Pegs and Whaley are new. That pretty much leaves Brandon, Overdorf, Berchtold and Bud Carpenter.

You forgot Munson, who just finished his 43rd year here.

:ugh:

[swiper]

He had one wild-card team that went 10-6 and lost in the first round. He went 2-14, 6-10, 10-6, 4-12 & 7-9. Those aren't great records considering he had a young, franchise QB the whole time (Matthew Stafford). He acted like an asshat at times, and ultimately was fired because Stafford wasn't developing. His defenses in Detroit were in the bottom half of the NFL in points and yards. Classic good DC who is out of his element as a HC, not unlike Ryan.

He did more than Ryan in shorter order. Nothing like Ryan. Ryan is an asshat. Schwartz was trying to win football games. Bill Belichick was similar in his stint in Cleveland with Bernie Kosar. THAT is a better comparison to Schwartz than is Ryan.

[Mace]

You forgot Munson, who just finished his 43rd year here.

:ugh:

Well he's the VP of Government Relations and External Affairs. We have pretty good government relations and externals affairs. That's been a model of consistency for a few decades or so.

[YardRat]

Anybody else see/hear the report that Wrecks went to Pegula and requested if he was going to be fired he'd prefer it was done Monday or Tuesday so he could go watch his kid's team play tonight against Ohio State?

[Mace]

Anybody else see/hear the report that Wrecks went to Pegula and requested if he was going to be fired he'd prefer it was done Monday or Tuesday so he could go watch his kid's team play tonight against Ohio State?

No, but it makes perfect sense to me.

[GingerP]

He did more than Ryan in shorter order. Nothing like Ryan. Ryan is an asshat. Schwartz was trying to win football games. Bill Belichick was similar in his stint in Cleveland with Bernie Kosar. THAT is a better comparison to Schwartz than is Ryan.

No he didn't. Ryan actually won playoff games, and he never had a QB with the ability of Stafford or a player like Calvin Johnson. Schwartz was a joke in Detroit as a HC, he was terrible. His teams were undisciplined. He almost got into a fight with Jim Harbaugh. His defenses were bottom=half of the NFL.

Nobody is a comparison to Belichick, that is silly.

[swiper]

No he didn't. Ryan actually won playoff games, and he never had a QB with the ability of Stafford or a player like Calvin Johnson. Schwartz was a joke in Detroit as a HC, he was terrible. His teams were undisciplined. He almost got into a fight with Jim Harbaugh. His defenses were bottom=half of the NFL.

Nobody is a comparison to Belichick, that is silly.

Wrong on all counts. Ryan won with teams that Mangini & Tanenbaum put together. Just like he won games in Buffalo on the back of Marrone's team. Schwartz was far more productive than Ryan.

[CommissarSpartacus]

He almost got into a fight with Jim Harbaugh. His defenses were bottom=half of the NFL..

AND his defense in his one year with Buffalo was # 4.

The thing with Harbaugh was ENTIRELY Harbaugh's fault and anyone that uses that little incident of stupid machismo to rag on Schwartz is being disingenuous.

Look, we get it, you're a Rex fan whose hero **** the bed, but that's no reason to denigrate a guy who did a superb job in his one season here and has been a model of class in the way he's referred to that episode.

My experience through my working life has been that the most successful organizations REWARD SUCCESS AND VALUE CONTINUITY.

When Marrone took off, by far the best thing to have done was promote Schwartz, because it would send a message saying "If you do a good job for us, we'll do good by you".

Instead they let Schwartz go and gave the job to a guy that the Bills had beat twice that year -all for marketing reasons.

And now we'll ALL be paying Rex to sit on a beach ogling toes for the next three years.

[feldspar]

And now we'll ALL be paying Rex to sit on a beach ogling toes for the next three years.

I'm a little short this week...can you float me?

[CommissarSpartacus]

I'm a little short this week...can you float me?

Hit up Rex, he's loaded...

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-foot-fetish-091015

[feldspar]

Hit up Rex, he's loaded...

http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-foot-fetish-091015

Does this means that he loves getting the boot?

...lots of cheap jokes here.

My point was that the Pegulas eat the last three years on Rex's deal from their pocket. Doesn't affect the team at all as far as money they are unable to otherwise spend, i.e. the salary cap or whatnot. Hard to feel sorry for a guy that just made 16 million free cash, or something like that.

Wonder how long it will take him to put a new paint-job on his truck, and re-do that tattoo on his arm yet again...

[Night Train]

Pegula is a good person but knows nothing about sports. Now he eats 16 Mil because he takes advice from the wrong people. See Brandon.

I thought Rex might be a good idea. I posted it 2 years back because he played the Pats tough. Wrong. I wouldn't have given him that insane contract, to say the least. That was crazy, when I read it.

Now the cheap mail room guy may be the new boss ( Lynn ) just to save power ( Whaley ) and a few bucks. ( Pegula ). Spin it all you want. Meanwhile, Brandon is quietly busy guiding 2 franchises down the sewer

[GingerP]

Wrong on all counts. Ryan won with teams that Mangini & Tanenbaum put together. Just like he won games in Buffalo on the back of Marrone's team. Schwartz was far more productive than Ryan.

Whatever. All I know is if you look at their records, Schwartz was 29-51 (.363), 0-1 in the playoffs as a HC. Ryan is 61-66 (.480), 4-2 in the playoffs as a HC.

You can look them up here:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/

The thing that makes it particularly damning is the fact that Schwartz had a franchise QB and still couldn't win. You want that guy as HC? He was a terrific coordinator, but that doesn't mean they can run a team. Schwartz was a train wreck in Detroit, ask any Lions fan.

[Dr. Lecter]

Brandon is a cluster-**** when it comes to actual football. I've already acknowledged that. Whaley helped build a dominant defense and above average special teams and had them in place for the newcomer. Did it result in playoffs? No. But they were thisclose, and you know it.

No they weren't. I don't know that. They haven't finished better than 9th in the AFC during this entire drought. Saying they were closer to the playoffs before Rex and now really isn't true. The record hasn't significantly changed.




IMO a different head coach, coupled with the new offensive additions and maintaining what was already proven to be successful and the team gets better. Don't think that's a stretch. If Marrone and most of the coaching staff stayed, and Whaley added all of the same players, and even the same coordinator, can you honestly say you wouldn't have been optimistic about the 2015 season?
Not really. They still wouldn't have had a QB and still would have had a meh coach.




I think it's great, and turns out a bullseye. I do like it. Hell, I've typed it so much I don't think I can roll with the regular name if I tried. Marrone was a moron, and I never gave him a free ride. Go re-visit the threads.

And yet here you are now, acting like he had this team on the cusp of greatness and that he had a great winning record - yet if NE had handed Rex a win last year he would have had the same record as Marrone. There is no significant difference between Ryan and Marrone.



I'm not assuming anything based on a myriad of reports. It's pretty much common knowledge Wrecks wanted Taylor, IIRC he even said as much.
Based on the limited choice. And, of course, Marrone wanted Orton.

So if you go by that criteria, Ryan wins.



Based on what? Inheriting a winning team and taking them to the playoffs two years? Big deal, it's all been downhill for the most part...I don't consider that too successful.
And the AFC championship games those two years with Mark Sanchez at QB. You forgot that part.


No. The last two seasons are Wryan's fault.
In part. But it is more complicated than that. There are other factors at work.


You're right, I have been slightly wrong about the special teams being 'above average'. Your boy Gosselin had them ranked #2 after 2014, behind only Philadelphia.

http://sportsday.dallasnews.com/dallas-cowboys/cowboysheadlines/2015/01/23/chip-kelly-s-commitment-helps-eagles-soar-to-first-in-sportsday-s-annual-nfl-special-teams-rankings

The special teams weren't 'above average'...they were 'dominant', just like the defense. My bad. And Wrecks ruined them also, apparently, if they went from #2 to #31.



No, I think you mixed up the numbers again. Second in 2014...16 in 2015.

And worse the year before. But special teams tend to be fluid and it's pointless to discuss.

Of course, I notice when they were good it's because of Whaley. When bad, it's all Ryan.

C'mon...at least try to be serious.
I am very serious. I am not the one acting like Ryan inherited a dominant team.



I've already agreed they should have been more up front. They should have at least had their own presser. However, IMO that's minor compared to what Wrecks has done the last two seasons, driving them down and loading up his buddies pockets with Pegula's money.

Again, driving them down from 9 wins to 8 isn't a huge change. You disagree. I don't get it. I don't think 9-7 is the goal.

And it's worse because they **** on actual people.

He isn't the single scapegoat and I've never said he was. He's just the biggest one IMO, and that's where our disagreement lies. I don't know why you're so enamored with Wryan and so intent on defending him. He fubared us the last two seasons, and it's obvious.
I am not defending him, as much as trying to interject that there are much bigger factors involved. And I will never get the logic behind your idea that 9-7 is fantastic and that 8-8 or 7-9 is fubar. What is obvious that this team is spinning their tires just like they have been forever.



I'm not blaming Wrecks for this century, just the last two seasons. We all know Brandon needs to be removed from football as much as possible. That doesn't excuse the last two season's coaching. You can harp on Whaley all you want, but you can't exactly blame him for the full 17 seasons either, now can you? Pegs either.

Of course not. But Whaley has been around longer than Ryan and is part of the "leadership" team that is anything but leaders.


If you want to vent over the last seventeen seasons, you're kind of running out of candidates. Ralph is gone. So is Littman. Pegs and Whaley are new. That pretty much leaves Brandon, Overdorf, Berchtold and Bud Carpenter.

And Brandon and Overdorf are involved in daily football decisions still.

That isn't bigger than a guy who was here two years and whose overall winning percentage is higher than all the other coaches in that time?

Can you seriously say that?

[YardRat]

Blah, blah, blah...

We've already been over this all before, and can continue to bat it back and forth, but it is pointless.

If you want to believe this past week represents an 'all time low' for the franchise, it's your prerogative. I don't, I think there are many other incidents in the past (like the previously mentioned Wade Phillips and Derrick Burroughs debacles) that are much worse, and I'm comfortable with that conclusion.

If you want to rationalize that the previous staff really didn't have a 9-7 W-L record, a top 4 defense and a top 2 special teams when the new staff took over, have at it. I'll stand by the historical record as noted.

If you want to somehow try to explain that Wrecks and his crew didn't really take a 9 win team, turn it into 8 wins and then to 7 over their two seasons here, fubared the defense and special teams, ****ed up game decisions on a weekly basis, held nobody accountable with no discipline, half-assed the job almost completely year round while padding his cronies pockets with Pegula's money, believe what you want. I'll see it for what it is, and you can see it for you want it to be.

[Historian]

You know, I actually agreed with you Rat, having lived through 1968 and 1971, but after the longest onside kick recovery in the history of the league.....I'm not so sure.

[YardRat]

You know, I actually agreed with you Rat, having lived through 1968 and 1971, but after the longest onside kick recovery in the history of the league.....I'm not so sure.

Unbelievable. I can see maybe a little confusion on catching the ball between O'Leary and Gillislee (still unacceptable), but WTF? with Gillie just letting the ball lay there?

[Night Train]

It got better today.

All is well.

Sincerely,

Russ & Doug.

[swiper]

Whatever. All I know is if you look at their records, Schwartz was 29-51 (.363), 0-1 in the playoffs as a HC. Ryan is 61-66 (.480), 4-2 in the playoffs as a HC.

You can look them up here:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/

The thing that makes it particularly damning is the fact that Schwartz had a franchise QB and still couldn't win. You want that guy as HC? He was a terrific coordinator, but that doesn't mean they can run a team. Schwartz was a train wreck in Detroit, ask any Lions fan.

Detroit fans were sad to see him go. You are clueless. It took them years to right the ship after he left. Harbaugh shold be punched in the face several times over. Good Schwartz stood up to his idiocy. And he's by far a better head coach than Rex Ryan.

By far.

[GingerP]

Detroit fans were sad to see him go. You are clueless. It took them years to right the ship after he left.

Years? They went 11-5 and made the playoffs the year after he was fired. They were immediately better.

In fact, since he was fired the Lions have gone 27-20 and made the playoffs twice in 3 years. If they win tonight they will win their division.

Schwartz's teams were notoriously undisciplined. During his tenure, only the Oakland Raiders were more penalized (Detroit had 575 penalties in the 5 seasons). Matthew Stafford regressed under Schwartz, and they finished the season 1-7 over the second half of his final season. That was the year the NFL North was ripe for the taking, as Detroit was the only team in the division to have a healthy QB all year. In his last 2 seasons they had the 6th-most and 2nd-most turnovers.

The guy is a terrific coordinator, but that doesn't translate to HC. As a HC, his teams would beat themselves with their own stupidity.

[Forward_Lateral]

Detroit fans were sad to see him go. You are clueless. It took them years to right the ship after he left. Harbaugh shold be punched in the face several times over. Good Schwartz stood up to his idiocy. And he's by far a better head coach than Rex Ryan.

By far.
No, they weren't. You are clueless. Detroit fans hated Schwartz.

[Mr. Pink]

I think today pushed that bar even lower, tbh.

We apparently have a GM who doesn't do anything.

Hip hip hoooooooooray!

[Dr. Lecter]

Well, if after today you still think Rex was the biggest problem with this team I have some ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.

[WagonCircler]

I think today pushed that bar even lower, tbh.

We apparently have a GM who doesn't do anything.!

Well, we certainly have a GM who doesn't accomplish anything.

Apparently he has the job the George Costanza had with the Yankees.

[Historian]

Okay...that was funny WC!

[cookie G]

It took some doing, but I think it achieved the legendary status of Ralph's, when he introduced Buddy as the new GM.

"Well, we were given a list of candidates, I didnt' know anyone on the list, I don't think Russ knew anyone on the list...so we hired Buddy."

Thank you Mr. Whaley..that was beautiful.

[Turf]

So let me get this right. The GM doesn't speak to the coach during the regular season.

[YardRat]

Well, if after today you still think Rex was the biggest problem with this team I have some ocean front property in Nebraska to sell you.

In your heart of hearts, you wanted Bon Jovi to get the team. Admit it.

[Historian]

Whaley looks like he has PKU....

[Historian]

Another film reference:

"I'm in charge!"

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-56blYgUKrX0/UPGbxSLhibI/AAAAAAAAF6I/o9oIxuDhRDE/s1600/robert-de-niro.gif

[Arm of Harm]

In your heart of hearts, you wanted Bon Jovi to get the team. Admit it.

This is not a rational response to anything Dr. Lecter posted. Then again, it is impossible to base a defense of Whaley on rationality. Whaley is a failed GM, and the Bills will not win a Super Bowl with him at the helm.

[Mr. Pink]

This is not a rational response to anything Dr. Lecter posted. Then again, it is impossible to base a defense of Whaley on rationality. Whaley is a failed GM, and the Bills will not win a Super Bowl with him at the helm.

The Bills and Sabres for that matter, will never win anything of consequence with the Pegulas at the helm.

[Historian]

In your heart of hearts, you wanted Bon Jovi to get the team. Admit it.

Ummmm......no.
https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/10447848_10152269675835796_6876033669898217556_n.jpg?oh=89f56ffbd906a3ea0f8c79dd5472b5a4&oe=591C00A1

[YardRat]

This is not a rational response to anything Dr. Lecter posted. Then again, it is impossible to base a defense of Whaley on rationality. Whaley is a failed GM, and the Bills will not win a Super Bowl with him at the helm.

Yeah, it is. Not sure if he meant it in this manner or not, but the biggest issue coming out of this press conference isn't Whaley, it's an owner/owners firing the head coach without discussing it with the GM.

We've already known all season (or should, if paying attention) that the Pegula's are 'meddling' when they are interviewing players before jettisoning the OC.

[Arm of Harm]

Yeah, it is. Not sure if he meant it in this manner or not, but the biggest issue coming out of this press conference isn't Whaley, it's an owner/owners firing the head coach without discussing it with the GM.

We've already known all season (or should, if paying attention) that the Pegula's are 'meddling' when they are interviewing players before jettisoning the OC.

Let's say for the sake of argument that Pegula is doing as much meddling as you say. If the press conference is to be believed the owner fired the head coach without discussing it with the GM. That fits perfectly with the theme of the GM deciding to bench the starting QB, without bothering to have the RB coach/interim head coach in the room for that decision. If true, all of this would point to an organization in disarray, with the problems emanating from the owner himself. The fact Whaley (amazingly) still has a job is merely a symptom of the owner's inability to create a competent football organization.

Even assuming all this is true, none of it is a justification for your comment to Dr. Lecter. Accusing someone of supporting the Larry Tanenbaum/Bon Jovi ownership group is tantamount to accusing that person of wanting the team to leave Buffalo. It's an attack on a person's fanhood. Just because Dr. Lecter objects to seeing the Bills being run by yahoos utterly incapable of operating even a high school football team, does not mean his fan loyalty should be called into question. On the contrary.

[YardRat]

Let's say for the sake of argument that Pegula is doing as much meddling as you say. If the press conference is to be believed the owner fired the head coach without discussing it with the GM. That fits perfectly with the theme of the GM deciding to bench the starting QB, without bothering to have the RB coach/interim head coach in the room for that decision. If true, all of this would point to an organization in disarray, with the problems emanating from the owner himself. The fact Whaley (amazingly) still has a job is merely a symptom of the owner's inability to create a competent football organization.

Even assuming all this is true, none of it is a justification for your comment to Dr. Lecter. Accusing someone of supporting the Larry Tanenbaum/Bon Jovi ownership group is tantamount to accusing that person of wanting the team to leave Buffalo. It's an attack on a person's fanhood. Just because Dr. Lecter objects to seeing the Bills being run by yahoos utterly incapable of operating even a high school football team, does not mean his fan loyalty should be called into question. On the contrary.
LOL...

It was said mostly in jest. Doc and I go way back, and he's a Bon Jovi fan.

I hope you get this defensive on my behalf when Historian busts my balls about Journey.

[Arm of Harm]

LOL...

It was said mostly in jest. Doc and I go way back, and he's a Bon Jovi fan.

I hope you get this defensive on my behalf when Historian busts my balls about Journey.

If you were just talking trash to an old friend, far be it from me to interfere with that. :)

[Dr. Lecter]

LOL...

It was said mostly in jest. Doc and I go way back, and he's a Bon Jovi fan.

I hope you get this defensive on my behalf when Historian busts my balls about Journey.
Or, more importantly,when we reference his "fandom" of Manilow.

[Mace]

Or, more importantly,when we reference his "fandom" of Manilow.

This is even more foul than I could stoop to with anyone, Lecter.

[Cleve]

These past few weeks/month are marking a new low point in the relatively low history of this team.



This team needs to have a complete cleaning. I am fine with Rex leaving - especially after Sunday. But in reality, he should have stayed over Brandon, Overdorf, and Whaley (the man who can't get along with head coaches and doesn't want to pay attention to their roster ideas) (and probably Taylor, but that's another discussion)

Right now, this team is the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of pro sports. In attempt to pretend that the leadership is serious about changing this perception heads need to be chopped.




And you THOUGHT it couldn't get worse, but it did. Whaley's incredible, amazing and utterly embarrassing presser today - where he basically called Lynn a liar regarding Manuel's starting on Sunday (obviously Lynn wasn't the one lying!) and said he isn't even involved in major operational decisions like firing the Head coach.

The latter was confirmed by none other than Terry Pegula himself. Who also confirmed our worst fears as a terrible meddling owner who bypasses the org structure of his team at a whim, and leaves the GM out in the cold when it comes to big decisions. This is something that would NEVER happen in any well run NFL team's front office.

Clearly the real issue is Terry Pegula. Wouldn't matter if he fired Overdorf, Brandon, and Whaley - they'd be replaced with a new batch of clowns who would rubber stamp the Pegulas decisions. I used to feel passionately that those three should be fired - but knowing that the true 'villain of the piece' is the owner himself - what's the point? This team is going NOWHERE with Terry Pegula controlling everything.

[Cleve]

I think today pushed that bar even lower, tbh.

We apparently have a GM who doesn't do anything.

Hip hip hoooooooooray!
Nothing? I would imagine he brings MISTER Pegula his morning coffee though. With a smile.

[Historian]

I hope you get this defensive on my behalf when Historian busts my balls about Journey.

I didn't know Perry and Schon made a bid for the team....

At this point, I'm sure you would welcome them with Open Arms!

:snicker:

[Dr. Lecter]

Well, Yardie is telling us to Don't Stop Believin' in Whaley, so that would make sense.

[Ginger Vitis]

Russ Brandon and the bills need to go there Separate Ways

[Cleve]

Russ Brandon and the bills need to go there Separate Ways

LOL - a few days ago I agreed completely. But with T-Peg's Big Reveal, it's clear that Brandon doesn't matter. Whaley doesn't matter. They're the only kind of guys that Terry Pegula would allow in those positions - yes men, and rubber-stampers. Unless Pegula has a tremendous change in his personal philosophies, we can expect more 'suffering' as fans.

This is not how successful NFL franchises that win championships are run. Owner making huge spur of the moment decisions(firing HC, selecting interim HC), and not consulting with any of his alleged management team first - the team goes nowhere if that is Standard Operating Practice.

[Blondie]

Lol.... this was a fun thread to read.

You guys really don't have much else to do up there right now do ya??

I think all the BILLS fans need to take a vacation, NOW, from football and head south to a beach and thaw the **** out.

[Historian]

I think all the BILLS fans need to take a vacation, NOW, from football and head south to a beach and thaw the **** out.

Should we take the Wheel in the Sky?

[Cleve]

Kim Pegula apparently wasn't satisfied with only Terry giving an interview - so she gave one of her own.

She strongly implies that SHE was involved in Ryan's firing too. That contradicts her husband's narrative, BTW, that it was a spur of the moment decision HE made during a private phone call with Ryan.

Can we get an honest and forthright explanation narrative on Ryan's firing? Why all the secrecy and double-talk? Seems like they've generated a lot of needless drama over a straightforward firing that most fans and media would agree with, on principle.

http://www.wgr550.com/Kim-Pegula-Lynn-not-a-lock-/22977269

[The Jokeman]

Kim Pegula apparently wasn't satisfied with only Terry giving an interview - so she gave one of her own.

She strongly implies that SHE was involved in Ryan's firing too. That contradicts her husband's narrative, BTW, that it was a spur of the moment decision HE made during a private phone call with Ryan.

Can we get an honest and forthright explanation narrative on Ryan's firing? Why all the secrecy and double-talk? Seems like they've generated a lot of needless drama over a straightforward firing that most fans and media would agree with, on principle.

http://www.wgr550.com/Kim-Pegula-Lynn-not-a-lock-/22977269

Most likely Terry aired his concern to Rex throughout the year that the defense was struggling and reinforced his thoughts about making the playoffs or else. Then we had the Raiders debacle Rex felt we were out of the playoffs and asked to talk to Terry privately outside of his normal weekly chat with Terry and Whaley. Terry probably felt like Rex did that we had an almost null chance to make the playoffs and let him know he was good as gone and that's when Rex reportedly told the team we weren't making the playoffs. I wouldn't be shocked if Rex talked to Rob about his forthcoming firing and maybe Rob talked to the media. Yet that's pure speculation on my behalf on who the leak is as could very well be Brandon too but don't recall many leaks prior to Rob's arrival but I don't follow everything written about this team. So when Whaley says he wasn't part of that initial conversation I believe it but what transpired after it is really anyone's guess.

[Ginger Vitis]

When it became official over 2 years the Pegulas had bought the Bills the rumour was it was Kim who really was the driving force for buying the team and that she was the one who wanted to be a NFL owner... Well 2 years in and she is proving she is no better than Ralph Wilson...

[WagonCircler]

Kim Pegula apparently wasn't satisfied with only Terry giving an interview - so she gave one of her own.

She strongly implies that SHE was involved in Ryan's firing too. That contradicts her husband's narrative, BTW, that it was a spur of the moment decision HE made during a private phone call with Ryan.

Can we get an honest and forthright explanation narrative on Ryan's firing? Why all the secrecy and double-talk? Seems like they've generated a lot of needless drama over a straightforward firing that most fans and media would agree with, on principle.

http://www.wgr550.com/Kim-Pegula-Lynn-not-a-lock-/22977269

That's the problem with lying. You have to keep making up new lies to cover the old lies, and before you know it, you forget how to tell the truth. Lying becomes your first option.

This organization has no credibility. Pollyanas wonder why the press is "so mean" to Lynn or Whaley. It's because they get paid to tell when they're being lied to, and to call the liars out on their lies.

When your entire business strategy is based on smoke and mirrors marketing, lying permeates every member of your organization and every word they speak.

[Cleve]

BTW, this is a quote from the WGR article


"She said firing Ryan was not an easy decision for her or her husband Terry, but one they ultimately felt was right for the organization."

Maybe Terry is the one spin doctoring for her?