Off-season Moves

[Mahdi]

If made my point about keeping Anthony Lynn already...

I think he has the qualities of a HC and he seems to be a demanding type character and pretty much NOT a players coach.

His mentor is Bill Parcells, not Rex, which is another reason why people have a high opinion of him. Not to mention how many great RBs he's coached.

Moving on, I understand why lots of Bills fans want something from outside the organization considering the 17 seasons of failure from within. I just don't believe the options outside are better for Buffalo. Our best shot is going with a guy who knows first hand what needs to be corrected.


So this is what else I would do or like to see done...

1. Get a 4-3 coach from a successful program that have developed players well. Gus Bradley for me is a top choice but there are other possiblilities.

Adam Zimmer and Jerry Gray from Minnesota

There are a couple of options in Carolina, Seattle and NY Giants. All have done well developing their young Front 7 players and DBs. Bring back Donnie Henderson would be a good move for our DB coach.

Players

1.Trade Dareus to someone for a first rounder. Oakland needs a DT badly, maybe get a one and Connor Cook in return. He's good and he would be better in a 4-3 but I don't like him ripping Rex after he was fired. He needs a change and Buffalo needs draft picks.

2. Sign Gilmore, had a rough start but showed his quality in the final third. Settle on 13 mil.

3. Sign Taylor - his cap hit, even if we pick up the option is good for a starting QB of his caliber. The only other threat to his position anyway would be a draft pick and they cost nothing. So our QB depth chart in total would be quite manageable in terms of total cost. Plus he seems to have improved and diversified his game in the last couple of games, regardless of competition, he was making throws he wasn't making all season.

4. Sign Sammy Watkins to a reasonable extension, he's the real deal and will only get better. Would rather not wait till he commands 15 mil next offseason.

5. Go hard after Kawaan Short DT from Panthers and keep Leger Douzable as a DT. Also sign another DT as you don't know how many games Kyle will play next year.

[Ginger Vitis]

Dareus is untradeable due to his dead cap number and I doubt you would get a 1st rounder for him

[Mahdi]

Dareus is untradeable due to his dead cap number and I doubt you would get a 1st rounder for him

Maybe not but there's always a team willing to make a deal. Raiders have lots of cap space for example and their D needs a DT badly. Same with Jags, Bucs and Falcons.

[YardRat]

Yeah, his first move should be to flush the entire coaching staff and hire coordinators that will bring their position coaches with them, but he has a history with most of these guys so I have my doubts that will happen.

[swiper]

Stop with these stupid fantasies.

[Mr. Pink]

I disagree with your entire post.

Anthony Lynn is not head coaching material. At least not at this point in time. He a. hasn't paid his dues in ascending the coaching ranks yet and b. is clearly not a person who has the capability to handle the media. Like it or not, handling the media is part of the job of being a head coach in the NFL.

Dareus has no trade value. His contract is absurd. His play since signing that contract has been abysmal. Who's going to trade anything at all for that, let alone a first round pick?

Gilmore wants top CB money. He's average in coverage and cannot tackle worth a lick. Make someone on the open market make the mistake of giving that guy 15ish million a year.

Tyrod is simply not an NFL caliber QB. He's a glorified RB who can throw a couple of routes.

Watkins hasn't shown to be physically able to handle the rigors of an NFL season yet and you can't hitch your wagon to a number 1 WR who simply cannot stay healthy for a 16 game season.

[Mahdi]

I disagree with your entire post.

Anthony Lynn is not head coaching material. At least not at this point in time. He a. hasn't paid his dues in ascending the coaching ranks yet and b. is clearly not a person who has the capability to handle the media. Like it or not, handling the media is part of the job of being a head coach in the NFL.


Dareus has no trade value. His contract is absurd. His play since signing that contract has been abysmal. Who's going to trade anything at all for that, let alone a first round pick?

Gilmore wants top CB money. He's average in coverage and cannot tackle worth a lick. Make someone on the open market make the mistake of giving that guy 15ish million a year.

Tyrod is simply not an NFL caliber QB. He's a glorified RB who can throw a couple of routes.

Watkins hasn't shown to be physically able to handle the rigors of an NFL season yet and you can't hitch your wagon to a number 1 WR who simply cannot stay healthy for a 16 game season.

I agree now might be early for Watkins until they are sure his foot issues are passed him.

[swiper]

I disagree with your entire post.



Then stop engaging this buffoon.

[X-Era]

I disagree with your entire post.

Anthony Lynn is not head coaching material. At least not at this point in time. He a. hasn't paid his dues in ascending the coaching ranks yet and b. is clearly not a person who has the capability to handle the media. Like it or not, handling the media is part of the job of being a head coach in the NFL.

Dareus has no trade value. His contract is absurd. His play since signing that contract has been abysmal. Who's going to trade anything at all for that, let alone a first round pick?

Gilmore wants top CB money. He's average in coverage and cannot tackle worth a lick. Make someone on the open market make the mistake of giving that guy 15ish million a year.

Tyrod is simply not an NFL caliber QB. He's a glorified RB who can throw a couple of routes.

Watkins hasn't shown to be physically able to handle the rigors of an NFL season yet and you can't hitch your wagon to a number 1 WR who simply cannot stay healthy for a 16 game season.
He offered his thoughts on moves to make. What are yours? Who should we add?

[Yasgur's Farm]

1) Release Taylor - He's not good enough for the salary commitment - We'd be handcuffed in the FA market.
2) We'll release a couple others along with Taylor (Graham & Carpenter are likely due to salary savings).
3) We'll lose a couple to retirement (Aaron Williams & Kyle Williams come to mind).

As a result, cap room will approach $60M... We'll need to re-sign or replace ~29 players...

1) Draft will add maybe 4 players to the 53 man roster... Probably 1 starter... $5M CAP
2) Sign 4 quality starters via FA... This may include Gilmore & Woods... $28 CAP
3) That leaves ~21 low level starters, back-ups & role players that will need to be obtained to fill the final 53... $20M CAP

[casdhf]

If Lynn stays tierod should too

[Mahdi]

1) Release Taylor - He's not good enough for the salary commitment - We'd be handcuffed in the FA market.
2) We'll release a couple others along with Taylor (Graham & Carpenter are likely due to salary savings).
3) We'll lose a couple to retirement (Aaron Williams & Kyle Williams come to mind).

As a result, cap room will approach $60M... We'll need to re-sign or replace ~29 players...

1) Draft will add maybe 4 players to the 53 man roster... Probably 1 starter... $5M CAP
2) Sign 4 quality starters via FA... This may include Gilmore & Woods... $28 CAP
3) That leaves ~21 low level starters, back-ups & role players that will need to be obtained to fill the final 53... $20M CAP

You release Taylor though and you're at square one with the QB position. Cardale is not ready and is a project player anyway that probably needs 2-3 years on the bench.

Tyrod is not going to be Matt Ryan. He's not going to sit in the pocket and deliver all day. What he did against Miami though is what he and the OC need to accept that he is.

He will run every single time the defense turns their back no matter what the play call is. That drives the D crazy and forces them to commit resources to defend him. In turn he was able to find his receivers downfield against Miami and not just outside the numbers but down the middle and deep.

Tyrod can win 11-12 games for Buffalo with a strong defense getting rid of him and letting him win for another team would be a huge mistake for Buffalo after years of hoping for a QB that can come in and put up the 24 PPG that he has.

Gilmore getting 13-14 mil is the nature of the CB position. He has played well in the last 6-7 games and he is a top CB in the NFL. So in this league you have to have and pay good corners.

[DraftBoy]

You release Taylor though and you're at square one with the QB position. Cardale is not ready and is a project player anyway that probably needs 2-3 years on the bench.

Tyrod is not going to be Matt Ryan. He's not going to sit in the pocket and deliver all day. What he did against Miami though is what he and the OC need to accept that he is.

He will run every single time the defense turns their back no matter what the play call is. That drives the D crazy and forces them to commit resources to defend him. In turn he was able to find his receivers downfield against Miami and not just outside the numbers but down the middle and deep.

Tyrod can win 11-12 games for Buffalo with a strong defense getting rid of him and letting him win for another team would be a huge mistake for Buffalo after years of hoping for a QB that can come in and put up the 24 PPG that he has.

Gilmore getting 13-14 mil is the nature of the CB position. He has played well in the last 6-7 games and he is a top CB in the NFL. So in this league you have to have and pay good corners.

Taylor was very good against Miami, but he was equally as bad in the Oakland game. I don't know what you're basing the statement that he can win 11-12 games for Buffalo, there really isn't anything to support that. Taylor is a bridge guy and not much more. If they bring him back next year I would imagine they'll ask him to redo his deal again.

A 13-14 million a year salary for Gilmore would put him the Top6 highest paid CB's in the league, that's not the nature of the position. If we can get him at 10-11 million then that's a good deal for the Bills and one they should entertain.

[Yasgur's Farm]

You release Taylor though and you're at square one with the QB position. Cardale is not ready and is a project player anyway that probably needs 2-3 years on the bench.

Tyrod is not going to be Matt Ryan. He's not going to sit in the pocket and deliver all day. What he did against Miami though is what he and the OC need to accept that he is.

He will run every single time the defense turns their back no matter what the play call is. That drives the D crazy and forces them to commit resources to defend him. In turn he was able to find his receivers downfield against Miami and not just outside the numbers but down the middle and deep.

Tyrod can win 11-12 games for Buffalo with a strong defense getting rid of him and letting him win for another team would be a huge mistake for Buffalo after years of hoping for a QB that can come in and put up the 24 PPG that he has.

Gilmore getting 13-14 mil is the nature of the CB position. He has played well in the last 6-7 games and he is a top CB in the NFL. So in this league you have to have and pay good corners.
It's simple logic IMO...
My Given... Tyrod is not a franchise guy.
My action... Obtain a franchise guy by (A) patiently in the draft, or (B) sign Kirk Cousins (unlikely)... Not old Romo nor Cutler.
My Conclusion A... While we patiently await a franchise guy via the draft, it makes no sense to waste the Tyrod money when we can get a $5M/year guy that will produce the same results IMO (win/loss).
My Conclusion B... If we miraculously obtain Kirk Cousins, we'll need Tyrods money to pay him.

[swiper]

They could have had Kirk Cousins already had they just drafted him.

[Mahdi]

It's simple logic IMO...
My Given... Tyrod is not a franchise guy.
My action... Obtain a franchise guy by (A) patiently in the draft, or (B) sign Kirk Cousins (unlikely)... Not old Romo nor Cutler.
My Conclusion A... While we patiently await a franchise guy via the draft, it makes no sense to waste the Tyrod money when we can get a $5M/year guy that will produce the same results IMO (win/loss).
My Conclusion B... If we miraculously obtain Kirk Cousins, we'll need Tyrods money to pay him.

Well as you said, we're not getting Cousins because Washington isn't that stupid.

Second, which 5 mil/year QB will win more than Taylor?

Our offense has been better of late, Tyrod has been better so my assumption is that next year Tyrod would be better than this year and could win more games.

Bottom line, an improved Tyrod can win more games than he did this year. And if I am a DC of an opposing team I would much rather play a 5m dollar QB than Tyrod.

Lets also not forget that even in the games when the Taylor led offense scored points the defense let him down. If the defense was better Tyrod could have won 10 games this year.

[Thurmal]

I genuinely want the Bills to go after Jay Cutler. That's where I am right now as a Bills fan.

[sukie]

I genuinely want the Bills to go after Jay Cutler. That's where I am right now as a Bills fan.

Yup ... in need of serious meds

[Mr. Pink]

He offered his thoughts on moves to make. What are yours? Who should we add?

I offered my thoughts on his thoughts!

Why keep Tyrod for the next 2 years just to go around 7-9 when you can do the same thing with a guy like EJ Manuel or even Brian Hoyer who'd come much cheaper?

Why pay 15ish million to a bottom tier number 1 corner when you can go out and get a guy like Nolan Carroll for half of that without a huge dropoff in talent, if any.

Keep Dareus and hope he decides to want to play football for a change since with his contract you're stuck with him. Keep Sammy on his current contract and if he can show he can stay healthy during the first 10 weeks of 2017 then see what kind of money he wants to work out an extension.

Thing is I think you're gonna have to replace Woods as he'll command decent money in FA from another team, I've seen speculation that he's gonna get around 9m. I don't think he's staying here for anywhere near that. So you go replace him with someone like Kamar Aiken or Kenny Brit for cheaper. Or you can try to go all out and sign Alshon Jeffrey and move on from Sammy in future plans.

None of this addresses the draft at all which the Bills could use to draft Malik McDowell at D-line or Mike Williams at WR or Marlon Humphrey at CB or Jamaal Adams at S to replace Aaron Williams. Just depends which direction they want to go as any of those 4 guys would end up being a starter in week 1.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Well as you said, we're not getting Cousins because Washington isn't that stupid.

Second, which 5 mil/year QB will win more than Taylor?

Our offense has been better of late, Tyrod has been better so my assumption is that next year Tyrod would be better than this year and could win more games.

Bottom line, an improved Tyrod can win more games than he did this year. And if I am a DC of an opposing team I would much rather play a 5m dollar QB than Tyrod.

Lets also not forget that even in the games when the Taylor led offense scored points the defense let him down. If the defense was better Tyrod could have won 10 games this year.Don't put words in my mouth... I didn't say the $5M guy would win more games.

Also... Some around here, myself included, feel that TT has actually regressed this season... Feel as though we've already seen his ceiling.

[Yasgur's Farm]

They could have had Kirk Cousins already had they just drafted him.It would be nice if you had something constructive to add to a thread once in awhile.

[Mahdi]

Taylor was very good against Miami, but he was equally as bad in the Oakland game. I don't know what you're basing the statement that he can win 11-12 games for Buffalo, there really isn't anything to support that. Taylor is a bridge guy and not much more. If they bring him back next year I would imagine they'll ask him to redo his deal again.

A 13-14 million a year salary for Gilmore would put him the Top6 highest paid CB's in the league, that's not the nature of the position. If we can get him at 10-11 million then that's a good deal for the Bills and one they should entertain.

Yes he was bad against Oakland but I don't think he had his full compliment of playmakers available to him.

Also, I think we can agree that against Cleveland and Miami Taylor took a step forward in his progression with respect to what kind of throws he was attempting. In his last two starts he was actually targeting the middle and deep middle of the field. I also saw a difference in his pocket presence.

I base my opinion on seeing Tyrod take a step he hasn't before and seeing the results reflect it. Some QBs need more playing time to develop and Tyrod was definitely in that category considering the type of QB he was in college and the fact that he sat for 4 years in Baltimore without playing at all.

Russell Wilson is a good target for Taylor and its achievable. If Buffalo can play solid defense they would be in the playoffs.

[Mr. Pink]

Yes he was bad against Oakland but I don't think he had his full compliment of playmakers available to him.

Also, I think we can agree that against Cleveland and Miami Taylor took a step forward in his progression with respect to what kind of throws he was attempting. In his last two starts he was actually targeting the middle and deep middle of the field. I also saw a difference in his pocket presence.

I base my opinion on seeing Tyrod take a step he hasn't before and seeing the results reflect it. Some QBs need more playing time to develop and Tyrod was definitely in that category considering the type of QB he was in college and the fact that he sat for 4 years in Baltimore without playing at all.

The problem is if you keep Tyrod you're married to the guy for the next 2 years and he gets 43m dollars guaranteed regardless of it he takes a step forward or looks exactly the same. If he looks exactly the same that's an assload of money to pay for a guy who's bottom of the barrel when it comes to being an actual QB to do our perennial 7-9 dance.

You could pay Brian Hoyer, EJ Manuel, Mark Sanchez, Matt Cassel a pittance in comparison and still do the perennial 7-9 dance with bottom of the barrel level QBing. And then draft a guy to sit behind him and hope he develops. Let me get this straight, I don't think any of the guys mentioned in this post are long term solutions as they'd all be bridge guys to the next guy. If you're doing a bridge, why pay that bridge 43m dollars?

Or you could take that 43m that Tyrod would have been guaranteed the next 2 years and make an attempt on Cousins or Romo.

If the team thinks it's as close as it is to that next step...then Tony Romo makes a lot of sense - if you can keep him healthy. Cousins also makes a lot of sense - but that's almost a pipe dream that Washington lets him walk.

[Mahdi]

The problem is if you keep Tyrod you're married to the guy for the next 2 years and he gets 43m dollars guaranteed regardless of it he takes a step forward or looks exactly the same. If he looks exactly the same that's an assload of money to pay for a guy who's bottom of the barrel when it comes to being an actual QB to do our perennial 7-9 dance.

You could pay Brian Hoyer, EJ Manuel, Mark Sanchez, Matt Cassel a pittance in comparison and still do the perennial 7-9 dance with bottom of the barrel level QBing. And then draft a guy to sit behind him and hope he develops. Let me get this straight, I don't think any of the guys mentioned in this post are long term solutions as they'd all be bridge guys to the next guy. If you're doing a bridge, why pay that bridge 43m dollars?

Or you could take that 43m that Tyrod would have been guaranteed the next 2 years and make an attempt on Cousins or Romo.

If the team thinks it's as close as it is to that next step...then Tony Romo makes a lot of sense - if you can keep him healthy. Cousins also makes a lot of sense - but that's almost a pipe dream that Washington lets him walk.

Yer points aren't unfair but I just wouldn't understand a team that has been looking for production from the QB position for the last 20 years turning around and getting rid of a guy who has actually put up points and led an effective offense.

If Buffalo gets rid of Taylor and he goes on to reach Russell Wilson status with another team we would look like idiots and would then deserve another 10 year "re-build" while we look for another QB.

[Thurmal]

Taylor is okay, but let's be real here, he's no Russell Wilson. The guy is something like 2-14 when the opposing team takes a lead at any point in the game, and the Bills are like 12-2 when he throws for under 200 yards (i.e. being involved in the game as little as possible). Those are pretty telling statistics.

[Mahdi]

Taylor is okay, but let's be real here, he's no Russell Wilson. The guy is something like 2-14 when the opposing team takes a lead at any point in the game, and the Bills are like 12-2 when he throws for under 200 yards (i.e. being involved in the game as little as possible). Those are pretty telling statistics.

Agreed, but two differences are that Russell started as a rookie and also Russell ran a more conventional offense in college (I believe) than Tyrod did.

As Tyrod develops as a passer he will be able to make those comeback wins happen more often. The problem has been that you were asking a pretty green QB, in terms of making downfield throws, to comeback in the 4th quarter of games when that was his weakness.

I think he has improved as a passer and will continue to under Lynn.

[The Jokeman]

Agreed, but two differences are that Russell started as a rookie and also Russell ran a more conventional offense in college (I believe) than Tyrod did.

As Tyrod develops as a passer he will be able to make those comeback wins happen more often. The problem has been that you were asking a pretty green QB, in terms of making downfield throws, to comeback in the 4th quarter of games when that was his weakness.

I think he has improved as a passer and will continue to under Lynn.

Next year will be Tyrod's 7th year in the NFL, how many years does he need to develop?

[Mahdi]

Next year will be Tyrod's 7th year in the NFL, how many years does he need to develop?

He hasn't started even 2 full seasons. Nothing can replace live reps in regular season games.

[sukie]

Breathe. Acceptance and surrender. Learn to let go. Tyrod cannot disappoint those that are willing to learn let go. Breathe.

[The Jokeman]

He hasn't started even 2 full seasons. Nothing can replace live reps in regular season games.

As a former RJ supporter I disagree with you. The fact is this last Miami game was an out liar to his normal performance. It's nice to hold onto but the fact remains he hasn't shown he can do it on a consistent basis over 29 games as a Bills starting QB I doubt it happens next year. There's a reason why he was a 6th Round pick and nobody sought him out to be a starting QB when he became an UFA when his contract ended in Baltimore. Yes, Denver offered him more money but he was going to serve as a backup to Peyton Manning. The fact is he's not good enough.

[Yasgur's Farm]

He has has not had (1) 300 yard game in regulation time. He reached 300 yards for the 1st time last week... and it took overtime to get there.

[X-Era]

I agree with most of this. Id rather keep Dareus and let Gilmore go but im fine the other way. Gilmore can be had for a cap hit of 8 - 9 mill so im alright with that.

[Mr. Pink]

I agree with most of this. Id rather keep Dareus and let Gilmore go but im fine the other way. Gilmore can be had for a cap hit of 8 - 9 mill so im alright with that.

Gilmore is gonna get between 13-15 a year on the open market.

Some team will overvalue him and overpay him.

Janoris Jenkins got 12.5 a year last year. To think Gilmore will get less than that isn't being realistic.

Trumaine Johnson is Gilmore's main competitor on the open market. Trumaine is currently franchise tagged at 13.9

Who do you think is better between Gilmore and Johnson? What makes you think either guy will settle for 9m?

[jpdex12]

I'm feeling the same way...kind of like when we had Orton....I'd rather have someone who is going to help balance the offense so we aren't so predictable...teams dared us to beat them in the air every game and they knew we couldn't...

[X-Era]

Gilmore is gonna get between 13-15 a year on the open market.

Some team will overvalue him and overpay him.

Janoris Jenkins got 12.5 a year last year. To think Gilmore will get less than that isn't being realistic.

Trumaine Johnson is Gilmore's main competitor on the open market. Trumaine is currently franchise tagged at 13.9

Who do you think is better between Gilmore and Johnson? What makes you think either guy will settle for 9m?Cap not cash. I could see 12 per in cash and a cap hit of 8 to 9.