Remember when. . . . .

[Generalissimus Gibby]

Remember when this team for a brief time was not a train wreck? Remember when this team was so ****ing good that it won a playoff game without its starting future hall of fame quarterback, while it's future hall of fame halfback and its perennial all pro outside linebacker missed most of the contest yet it's reserves won the day? Remember how -except in superbowls- you could never quite count this team out? Remember how that win was not their only win and how they dismantled Cowher's Steelers in Three Rivers the next week? Remember how this team never ever ****ing have up? Remember the hustle of Don Beebe knocking the ball out of the hands of a showboating Leon Lett?

I doubt we ever see anything close to that ever again. Damn, those were some great teams.

[DesertFox24]

Member when storm troopers were real and not the ones from the movies....

Member when tom brady was in high school and the bills were good....

Member when the bills were not the league joke or punchline....

You under 30 posters have no idea what I am talking about, lol. This team was good I saw it with my own eyes live on national television, and even when we were good we were a laughing stock. Let that simmer for a brief moment.

Oh well. My son really loves playing soccer so I have for the past 3 years been watching reading and learning the game of soccer. I also live out west so on weekend mornings European soccer is on in the morning and I can honestly say after some time and reading and understanding the culture and listening to sirius FC channel 85 I have really started to enjoy and respect the sport. Best part is I like a couple of teams but no emotional attachment when they lose like the Fing Buffalo Tire Fire Bills.

Like I said though you have to give it a couple of years and force feed it. Start with it on instead of espn or nfl network in the morning and just have it as background noise and listen to the radio show, much better host than nfl radio and that is honest truth. The other neat thing is all the European leagues play a completely different style which is neat to watch too once you start to understand it. I still cannot get over the flopping or the acting like they just broke their femur but whatever.

[TacklingDummy]

I'd rather watch every game of a Bills 0-16 season vs 2 second of soccer.

I'd rather http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_n3ExNnFDqAo/TB99e8PFZHI/AAAAAAAAAHY/Tr8G_dW6dVQ/s1600/watching+paint+dry+5.jpg

[YardRat]

If forums like these were around 30 years ago...

---Ralph Wilson would be completely roasted for being cheap and incompetent for elevating Bill Polian to the GM position instead of going out and getting a 'real' guy.
---The organization would be labeled a joke for bringing in a head coach that was a failure at the pro level once already, a USFL and CFL 'reject' like Marv Levy.
---Fans would be demanding Bruce Smith be traded, or outright cut, after his suspension.
---Polian would be called a fool for wasting a draft pick on a WR from Kutztown State (is that even a real college?).
---Polian would be roasted for mortgaging the future, trading away everything including the kitchen sink for a ****ing LBer when we already drafted one in the first round anyway.
---Polian would roasted, again, for 'wasting' their top draft pick (a second rounder because the dumb **** already traded away the first FOR A LBER!!) on a ****ING RB with a bum knee.
---There would be a plethora of threads over a QB controversy (Reich vs Kelly) that would make Losman/Edwards and Flutie/Johnson look like afternoon tea.
---Etc, etc, etc...

[ICRockets]

If forums like these were around 30 years ago...

---Ralph Wilson would be completely roasted for being cheap and incompetent for elevating Bill Polian to the GM position instead of going out and getting a 'real' guy.
---The organization would be labeled a joke for bringing in a head coach that was a failure at the pro level once already, a USFL and CFL 'reject' like Marv Levy.
---Fans would be demanding Bruce Smith be traded, or outright cut, after his suspension.
---Polian would be called a fool for wasting a draft pick on a WR from Kutztown State (is that even a real college?).
---Polian would be roasted for mortgaging the future, trading away everything including the kitchen sink for a ****ing LBer when we already drafted one in the first round anyway.
---Polian would roasted, again, for 'wasting' their top draft pick (a second rounder because the dumb **** already traded away the first FOR A LBER!!) on a ****ING RB with a bum knee.
---There would be a plethora of threads over a QB controversy (Reich vs Kelly) that would make Losman/Edwards and Flutie/Johnson look like afternoon tea.
---Etc, etc, etc...
Don't forget how furious people would be that we drafted a QB that doesn't even want to be here. Jim Kelly would have never been given a chance to win over the fanbase after holding out.

[DynaPaul]

Don't forget how furious people would be that we drafted a QB that doesn't even want to be here. Jim Kelly would have never been given a chance to win over the fanbase after holding out.

Justifiable questions after years of losing but I don't think anyone would be so furious after they started winning.

[Albany,n.y.]

Remember when this team for a brief time was not a train wreck? Remember when this team was so ****ing good that it won a playoff game without its starting future hall of fame quarterback, while it's future hall of fame halfback and its perennial all pro outside linebacker missed most of the contest yet it's reserves won the day? Remember how -except in superbowls- you could never quite count this team out? Remember how that win was not their only win and how they dismantled Cowher's Steelers in Three Rivers the next week? Remember how this team never ever ****ing have up? Remember the hustle of Don Beebe knocking the ball out of the hands of a showboating Leon Lett?

I doubt we ever see anything close to that ever again. Damn, those were some great teams.

Remember something else-some of the key members of that team, the guys who hated losing, were on the 2-14 team or both 2-14 teams. They were there when the culture was a losing one and they were there when the culture was one were losing was unacceptable. So there is hope for the future. Once the QB arrived, things changed. It can happen again.
Talley went from a guy who played on consecutive 2-14 games to a leader who exemplified the winning attitude.

[Victor7]

If forums like these were around 30 years ago...

---Ralph Wilson would be completely roasted for being cheap and incompetent for elevating Bill Polian to the GM position instead of going out and getting a 'real' guy.
---The organization would be labeled a joke for bringing in a head coach that was a failure at the pro level once already, a USFL and CFL 'reject' like Marv Levy.
---Fans would be demanding Bruce Smith be traded, or outright cut, after his suspension.
---Polian would be called a fool for wasting a draft pick on a WR from Kutztown State (is that even a real college?).
---Polian would be roasted for mortgaging the future, trading away everything including the kitchen sink for a ****ing LBer when we already drafted one in the first round anyway.
---Polian would roasted, again, for 'wasting' their top draft pick (a second rounder because the dumb **** already traded away the first FOR A LBER!!) on a ****ING RB with a bum knee.
---There would be a plethora of threads over a QB controversy (Reich vs Kelly) that would make Losman/Edwards and Flutie/Johnson look like afternoon tea.
---Etc, etc, etc...

Nah bruh

Within 2 years of Kelly's arrival we were already winning. Winning cures all.

[YardRat]

Nah bruh

Within 2 years of Kelly's arrival we were already winning. Winning cures all.

Sorry, but I didn't just make that **** up. Those are real topics, real comments and real conversations from back in the day. Just on a smaller scale because this type of outlet didn't exist.

[Mace]

Sorry, but I didn't just make that **** up. Those are real topics, real comments and real conversations from back in the day. Just on a smaller scale because this type of outlet didn't exist.

Yeah they were, I had a lot of those viewpoints, so did my father, people I worked with, media in the papers and on TV. Still remember a lot of the conversations even and why I had the viewpoints.

Oh I was livid when they hired Wing-T aggravating color analyst Levy, who the hell was Bill Polian, great drafting a guy with a knee injury, a loafer (Bruce), and a QB who didn't want to be here, wtf....wrote Reed off as a wild reach, Ted Marchibroda ? Come on....we need a real defensive coordinator not another old guy (Corey).....was delighted when they got Bennett though I thought he wouldn't want to be here either because no one did...

[ICRockets]

Yeah they were, I had a lot of those viewpoints, so did my father, people I worked with, media in the papers and on TV. Still remember a lot of the conversations even and why I had the viewpoints.

Oh I was livid when they hired Wing-T aggravating color analyst Levy, who the hell was Bill Polian, great drafting a guy with a knee injury, a loafer (Bruce), and a QB who didn't want to be here, wtf....wrote Reed off as a wild reach, Ted Marchibroda ? Come on....we need a real defensive coordinator not another old guy (Corey).....was delighted when they got Bennett though I thought he wouldn't want to be here either because no one did...

It's almost like aggressively negative 'hot takes' are occasionally super, super wrong and the people patting themselves on the back for having them around here aren't necessarily right so much as they are intolerable!

[YardRat]

Frank Reich was my Marquis Goodwin back then. I wanted him cut and upgraded in the worst way, he just looked horrible in preseason games.

[The Jokeman]

Remember when this team for a brief time was not a train wreck? Remember when this team was so ****ing good that it won a playoff game without its starting future hall of fame quarterback, while it's future hall of fame halfback and its perennial all pro outside linebacker missed most of the contest yet it's reserves won the day? Remember how -except in superbowls- you could never quite count this team out? Remember how that win was not their only win and how they dismantled Cowher's Steelers in Three Rivers the next week? Remember how this team never ever ****ing have up? Remember the hustle of Don Beebe knocking the ball out of the hands of a showboating Leon Lett?

I doubt we ever see anything close to that ever again. Damn, those were some great teams.
Remember when people were in arms that we drafted a DE from VA Tech instead of the Heisman Trophy winner Flutie in 1985? Then Remember when some Bills fans were wanted to trade Bruce Smith to Denver because of his drug issues early in his career? (hmmmm it reminds me of a present day D-lineman on the roster). or that we should trade Thurman Thomas to the Raiders for Tim Brown? Or that we should keep Reich as our starting QB in the playoffs after he come back? Or that everyone was stunned when we didn't draft Leeland McElroy to replace an aging Thurman and instead went with a punk WR from Mississippi State who was a bust after his first two years in the league. Sure the winning was nice and made things more tolerable yet even then there was always things that could be "improved".

[sukie]

Remember this was all pre free agency. Ah... those August heated discussions on whether the Bills would win 11 or 12 games.

[Victor7]

Sorry, but I didn't just make that **** up. Those are real topics, real comments and real conversations from back in the day. Just on a smaller scale because this type of outlet didn't exist.
And what happened once we started winning ?

What did the conversation turn to ?

Its an honest question btw

[WagonCircler]

Oh I was livid when they hired Wing-T aggravating color analyst Levy,...

I was drunk. I think.

That was the 80's, right?

Yeah, then I was drunk.

[WagonCircler]

And what happened once we started winning ?

What did the conversation turn to ?

Its an honest question btw


It was different then, Vic. There were no message boards. No internet. No all day sports talk radio. So we knew only what the daily papers told us.

It was mostly a relief to be rid of people like Terry Bledsoe and Hank Bullough.

We were thrilled to get a guy like Chuck Knox, because we saw him winning frequently with the Rams. We didn't know who most of the other guys were, including Marv. But we knew we had a dynamic QB in Kelly, and we hoped to see a new HC who would at least give the Run & Shoot a try.

There's exponentially more information out there now, all at your fingertips.

Things were less contentious back then. We knew the Bills sucked. We hoped for better. But we only talked about it with our friends, family, or co-workers. There was no bombing back and forth like exists now on forums like this and on social media.

[Mace]

And what happened once we started winning ?

What did the conversation turn to ?

Its an honest question btw

Nothing much even after the 1st Super Bowl loss. Just prior, there was a sense the team was steadily rising. Some minor quibbles about player discipline, but it was hard for anyone to have much heart in it when the team kept obviously improving. It was hard to even find anyone you passionately wanted to replace.

As the Super Bowl losses added up, so did the quibbling about discipline and Marv Levy. Like they locked him in a porta pot at camp once as a prank and who does that to an HC they respect and listen to ? But then the season would start and no matter what arguing and stupid stuff they were up to off the field, they were tearing people up on the field again.

Lose another Super Bowl. Got to be Levy, he need rein them in. Season starts, winning. Even if they'd lose you weren't that bothered, because they'd take it out on the next team it seemed. Jeff Wright as NT, oh I don't know...Carlton Bailey ? Season game, more winning, whatever.

Lose another. Darn that Levy, he didn't have them prepared again for the big game and they didn't want to be prepared ! Maybe Corey's defense has issues. Bailey, Jeff Wright sure seems to get pushed around a lot. Season came, back to winning. Hmph.

Lose another, blast that Levy ! They looked lost. One freaking game to be prepared for. We even got there again ! Jeff Wright. Patton and Maddox good enough at LB ? Fina has awfully skinny arms for an LT and gets pushed around a lot, Ritcher is looking old, can the redoubtable Talley be replaced ? Don't know about Bill Brooks at WR...

1994....uh oh, 7-9, they're getting old, Levy....Wright, Patton, Maddox, Fina and guard Lacina...defensive secondary up and down....

I look at the rosters via Pro Reference and remember.

There were two more years where they mustered some fire but you could feel it aging and fading, another crap year when Kelly retired, a couple more of hope from Wade Phillips who seemed too passive as an HC. Flutie gave some hope, so did getting Rob Johnson But Flutie's success was always fleeting, second time around teams knew to throw their arms up so he couldn't see the middle of the field well, and knew to force him into trying to run, and you'd disrupt his game. Flutie himself was an arrogant schemer, it didn't help anything.

And then, just like that, it was all over.

Seemed like it lasted forever, but was over way too fast. It was....a phenomenal rush knowing other teams hated you and couldn't do anything about it as you shredded them after all those years of pain. Then everyone was laughing at you again after a Super Bowl, but next year, oh they hated you again, bahaha....

"Maybe this year a title" was soooo much sweeter than "maybe next year a chance for a wildcard".

Around that first Super Bowl team though, you could feel it coming, arguments and debates were halfhearted. I don't remember too many people even thinking we weren't going back, and we'd keep going until we won one dammit whether anyone liked it or not. Felt like Buffalo's moment of lifetimes, finally. You were near sure of it.

And then it was over and here we are.

[YardRat]

And what happened once we started winning ?

What did the conversation turn to ?

Its an honest question btw

The Kelly/Reich thingie was while they were winning.
Levy sucks, he can't keep the team focused before the biggest game of their lives.
Walt Corey sucks, we need a new DC.
Jeff Wright sucks. Mark Kelso sucks. Polian sucks for drafting James Williams and John Fina in the first round.


One thing Bills fans have always been good at is *****ing about the team, even when they were winning.

[k-oneputt]

I actually had people sitting in front of me during those years who actually thought Reich was better then Kelly.
And Davis better then Thurman.
The fans love for the backup.

And Kelso did suck. And Wright wasn't much better.

[Turf]

Remember when Ralph finally fired Stu Barber, the shady guy in the background running the contracts and the show......We won after that. Remind you of anyone?