Gruden's QB Camp: Cardale Jones Shows Off His Arm / Frank Reich As Head Coach?

[BillsImpossible]

His arm is bigger than most human legs.

He has a baby's arm that looks like a young elephant's trunk.

His name is "12-gauge."

This is Bills Frontline....

"Chucky," Gruden likes Cardale Jones.

I wonder how many coaching candidates out there are thinking to themselves, "I would love to work with a quarterback like that."

Urban Meyer didn't have enough time to mess with Cardale's game. Jones is a fresh QB slate without bad (learned) habits.

He's raw, but he's not as raw as EJ Manuel is raw.

4 years worth of rawness....outperformed by a super saw raw rookie in 2016.

Tyrod Taylor is still raw, as raw as he was last year. He didn't get rawer, he just stayed slightly rawer, kind of like that frozen steak that's been in your freezer since 2015. Once you eat it, the steak will be okay, but it will never be great no matter how great your mate or mates can cook.

I want to move on from Tyrod Taylor. Kid's a great athlete, but he's not going to take the Bills to a Super Bowl win, or take the team on a decade long playoff run...like the Pittsburgh's, Green Bay's, and New England's of the football world.

Think BIG for 2017.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EX3ueMpZkAg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

On a side note, I'd love to have A. Lynn remain as the OC and Frank Reich as the Bills next head coach.

The "Architect," of the Greatest Comeback in NFL History was Frank Reich.

The Bills need a comeback.

They have a trebuchet, now they need The Comeback King to help launch Cardale Jones into the stratosphere of NFL stardom.

Big League.

[ICRockets]

I'd argue Cardale is WAY more raw than EJ was coming out, but it's difficult to say considering Nate Hackett squandered any potential Manuel once had.

[BillsImpossible]

I don't think Nate Hackett had or has anything to do with EJ Manuel not being able to hit the broad side of a barn.

[Mace]

I honestly think no ones potential or lack of it even makes a difference anymore, it just can't end well because it never does.

[Thurmal]

I'd argue Cardale is WAY more raw than EJ was coming out, but it's difficult to say considering Nate Hackett squandered any potential Manuel once had.


Can't teach accuracy. Hackett was the worst play-caller I've literally ever seen on the Bills, though.

[ICRockets]

Can't teach accuracy.

Why do fans say this all the time? You can teach any football skill. Accuracy is a learned trait. It isn't some innate skill that never evolves or devolves. All it takes is a good coach/mentor.

[jamze132]

I don't understand why anyone wants Frank Reich to be our HC...

[WagonCircler]

Cardale's brain is the size of an atom

[Mace]

I don't understand why anyone wants Frank Reich to be our HC...

I've explained it more thoroughly in other threads, but it boils down to the fact he was #14 and Kelly was #12, and that extra two has to mean something someday.

[Homegrown]

I honestly think no ones potential or lack of it even makes a difference anymore, it just can't end well because it never does.

This thread has brought out Mace's inner Bob Dylan....

[Mouldsie]

Cardale's brain is the size of an atom
He scored a 25 on the wonderlic which is pretty good. EJ also did well. Football instincts are not the same

[WagonCircler]

He scored a 25 on the wonderlic which is pretty good. EJ also did well. Football instincts are not the same

That's why he was benched three times in 11 games at OSU.

"I didn't come here to play school. I came here to play football."

Cardale Jones.

****ing idiot.

[Night Train]

He scored a 25 on the wonderlic which is pretty good. EJ also did well. Football instincts are not the same

Dam Marino - 16
Jim Kelly - 15

[The Jokeman]

I honestly think no ones potential or lack of it even makes a difference anymore, it just can't end well because it never does.
Potential is a dangerous word for NFL quarterbacks. Yet after 6 years in the league I think we've seen Tyrod at his ceiling level which to me just isn't good enough. In terms of Cardale, I don't mind keeping him around but also prefer we draft a more polished QB in this draft to compete with him and whomever we elect to make the 3rd QB.

[DraftBoy]

Potential is a dangerous word for NFL quarterbacks. Yet after 6 years in the league I think we've seen Tyrod at his ceiling level which to me just isn't good enough. In terms of Cardale, I don't mind keeping him around but also prefer we draft a more polished QB in this draft to compete with him and whomever we elect to make the 3rd QB.

What I can't quite figure out with Taylor is if he is good enough to be a Trent Dilfer type guy for this team. His lack of turnovers, ability to make plays with his feet, and ability to innovate are really appealing. However, his issues with accuracy, inability to read a defense, or to consistently run through more than 1-2 progressions is infuriating.

I'm torn.

[DraftBoy]

Dam Marino - 16
Jim Kelly - 15

I wish there was a way the NFL to test these guys on football aptitude and show the fans what that is like. I've been very fortunate in my past life to be a part of some grease/white board sessions with College and NFL coaches and the amount of knowledge and detail that has to be kept in your head is mind boggling.

The wonderlic score is a decent barometer for weighing a players ability to retain knowledge, but it means next to nothing on the football field.

Four years ago before I "retired" from writing and stopped running BBD I got the opportunity to sit in with a prospect who was going through a prep session for draft training before heading to an all-star game. The draft prep team brought in three coaches [2 former and 1 active (college)] to grill this kid on everything you could think of. We spent two hours straight doing nothing but sitting there watching the coaches diagram plays on the white board and show variations on film based on what the other team did. Then the next hour was spent with the prospect redrawing the diagrams and the coaches throwing out scenarios and making him adjust the diagram. It was intense but the kid did a really good job.

Keep in mind the kid had just gone through a two hour workout only 90 minutes before we started this process as part of his all-star game/combine prep so he was physically exhausted.

[The Beef]

I don't think Cardale is a saviour but OSU's system didn't do him any favors in terms of developing into a solid pro. When the chips were on the line in the B1G playoff and the College Playoffs he was arguably the best player on the field.

He really meeds to study film round the clock this off season and for the next 2 years. Complex dedenses will be his downfall. He isn't afraid to make throws, which is great. Making the correct throw is going to be achilles heel.

[Forward_Lateral]

Why do fans say this all the time? You can teach any football skill. Accuracy is a learned trait. It isn't some innate skill that never evolves or devolves. All it takes is a good coach/mentor.

Because you can't teach accuracy? If it truly can be taught, wouldn't every NFL QB be deadly accurate? It can't be taught in game situations. Please stop.

[The Jokeman]

What I can't quite figure out with Taylor is if he is good enough to be a Trent Dilfer type guy for this team. His lack of turnovers, ability to make plays with his feet, and ability to innovate are really appealing. However, his issues with accuracy, inability to read a defense, or to consistently run through more than 1-2 progressions is infuriating.

I'm torn.
He might be Trent Dilfer but us developing a Ravens defense around him unlikely with the way the NFL favors offense these days. I just don't think Tyrod has "it" as when the games are on the line in the 4th he rarely comes through. Whether it be holding a lead or leading a drive to get us points to win.

[Forward_Lateral]

What I can't quite figure out with Taylor is if he is good enough to be a Trent Dilfer type guy for this team. His lack of turnovers, ability to make plays with his feet, and ability to innovate are really appealing. However, his issues with accuracy, inability to read a defense, or to consistently run through more than 1-2 progressions is infuriating.

I'm torn.

It's a love/hate relationship. At times he looks like Brett Favre scrambling around, making gigantic throws on the run that like 1% of humans could make. Then he looks like JP Losman and throws a ball 18 yards out of bounds when trying to hit a wide open WR down the sideline.

[Thurmal]

Why do fans say this all the time? You can teach any football skill. Accuracy is a learned trait. It isn't some innate skill that never evolves or devolves. All it takes is a good coach/mentor.
Accuracy is not a learned trait; you either have it or you don't. I can't think of one QB ever with significant accuracy issues that, with just a bit of coaching, started dropping dimes and hitting guys in stride.

[Night Train]

I could play the Buckeye homer but Cardale is raw. He was a Tressel recruit and never would have come there while Urban was recruiting.

After Miller and Barrett went down, they were lucky Jones was on the bench. But lets keep things in perspective. In that great 3 game run to the title in 2014, Ezekiel Elliott ran for 230,240 and 248, playing the role of Superman.

Bills need to add 2 more QB's via draft and FA and see who emerges. Neither TT or Manuel should be back. Quit settling for 6-8 wins.

One thing Jones can do is rifle the ball without hesitation, instead of waiting all day for the receiver to run open ( the difference between College QB's and NFL QB's ). This where Manuel failed badly. Jones is very poised and he sheds would be tacklers with ease and doesn't panic. He needs snaps to see can be a consistent option but I'm rooting for the laundry and don't care who emerges. Still ,he's far from hopeless and is a much better candidate than Manuel ever was.

[don137]

Accuracy is not a learned trait; you either have it or you don't. I can't think of one QB ever with significant accuracy issues that, with just a bit of coaching, started dropping dimes and hitting guys in stride.

I think you guys are talking two different things. ICRockets is implying with proper mechanics one can improve the accuracy of a throw which is very true. However, even with proper mechanics many QBs are not pinpoint accurate which I think is what you are saying. The ones that are pinpoint accurate in game situations fall in the elite category. Your saying you cant teach pinpoint accuracy. I agree with that. You either have it or you don't.

[DraftBoy]

Accuracy is not a learned trait; you either have it or you don't. I can't think of one QB ever with significant accuracy issues that, with just a bit of coaching, started dropping dimes and hitting guys in stride.

Flacco is an example, he was a career 60.3% passer heading into 2014. Since then he's had 62.1, 64.4, and 64.9 completion percentages the past three years.

[ICRockets]

Because you can't teach accuracy? If it truly can be taught, wouldn't every NFL QB be deadly accurate? It can't be taught in game situations. Please stop.
Not if there aren't enough NFL-caliber QB coaches to go around, no. If there were, David Lee wouldn't still have a career at this point.

[sukie]

Cardale's brain is the size of an atom
We had brains (and beard). I want an athlete and one that will show some balls. Now can a Cardale do that? Don't know.

Good QBs (to me) were the HS arrogant annoying A-Hole that had the hotties, was a dick but it didn't' matter. Always came out on top. ***** could always play ball and had swagger on the field. Kelly Marino Elway Aikman Rivers Luck etc all had that. Manning & Favre, developed it, Brady grew into it... (Rodgers probably always had "it" but had to wait)

We need a guy that can develop "it" cuz those that have "it" are rare.

TT... the "it" train passed him. I see Dak about board the train. You can see it.

Manziel thought he had it but it was sizzurp and a bong.

The problem is finding who can develop it. Bradys are rare,

Anyone can point to a Luck... that is easy cuz he has "it".

Grading QB classes is impossible outside of the rare"it" QBs. Unless we draft 1 or 2 and there is one... sitting there draped with a babe and a confident smirk... We need to kick tires until another Dak like rough gem emerges.

[cookie G]

What I can't quite figure out with Taylor is if he is good enough to be a Trent Dilfer type guy for this team. His lack of turnovers, ability to make plays with his feet, and ability to innovate are really appealing. However, his issues with accuracy, inability to read a defense, or to consistently run through more than 1-2 progressions is infuriating.

I'm torn.

I don't look at it like a Trent Dilfer situation, because TT was never put in that situation for his 2 years as a starter. Dilfer rarely had to lead more than 1-2 TD drives per game and never led an offense that scored more than 20 pts. per game. With Balt, he had a defense that held opposing offenses He was the epitome of of a caretaker.

TT is more than a caretaker, he's an integral part of the way this offense is run. You saw an inkling of what it looks like without him last Sunday.

I look at it a standpoint of what he brings to the table and how his specific skill set can enhance an offense.

Does he enhance this offense?

Yup...and to me...there isn't any question to it, not to me.

This is the most productive offense the Bills have had in years. You have to go back to the Flutie years to find an offense as productive as this one, and go back to the SB years to find a Bills' offense that consistently scores points on a weekly basis. This offense scored 24 or more points in 11 of 15 games he started. You literally have to go back to 1992 to see that in a Bills' offense.

This is a team that has averaged around 25th in the league in scoring for the past decade or more. Last year, they were 10th in the league. This year, they were 7th, before the last Jets' game. AND as an extra added bonus, its an offense that doesn't turn the ball over much.

To those who say this is simply a McCoy running based offense...nah. Before he got hurt on Sunday..you could see the change in the running game without TT starting.

Is this a traditional modern NFL offense? Nope.
Is this an offense that produces more points than most traditional passing offenses in the league? Yup.
Do I care that its not a traditional NFL offense? Not in the least.

My frustration with the past 2 seasons hasn't been TT. He is what he is. Adn the Roman/Lynn gameplan has used his skillset to produce a pretty good offense.

The frustration...where the true "caretaker" term comes in, was on the defensive side of the ball. "Don't screw up" what had been a quality defense, was lost on the Fully Pregnant Bros.

They couldn't even get that right. Without RR trying to put his unique signature on teh D, we'd be talking about this weekend's match up in Wildcard Weekend.

We would have done the same last year.

All he had to do was not screw up the defense. The criticism of TT would be still present, but it would be muted.

PS...as far as the franchise QB who can consistently win shootouts and drag teams back late in games....Big Ben is 2-5 this year when the opponent scores more than 20 points. One of those 2 victories was against Cleveland last week.
And he is truly a franchise QB...and has one of the best wr's in the game to throw to.

But...when the Steelers score 24 points, they are 11-1. When the Bills score 24 points, they are 5-6. The Bills scored as many points as the Steelers this year. They're 11-5, the Bills weren't.

They just stopped other teams on a more consistent basis.

They play this weekend..we don't.

[WagonCircler]

We had brains (and beard). I want an athlete and one that will show some balls.

You need brains (football smarts--the ability to quickly analyze, make decisions and execute) and athletic talent (no, not the kind Doug Whaley loves so much--we don't need a QB who can return kickoffs, we need a pocket passer with a strong, accurate arm, and enough athleticism to move around in the pocket).

A QB who lacks one or the other, even if they have one in spades, will fail.

The Bills have had extreme examples of each side. Tyrod is a world class runner, with very little else going for him. He doesn't turn the ball over because he has no balls as a passer, not because he's cerebral or discerning. Fitz is off the charts smart, but doesn't realize the limitations of his arm, and that is his undoing.

What we should be shooting for is a young Roethlisberger. To me, he is the prototype successful (on the field) NFL QB. Big, strong, amazing football instincts, big arm, outstanding escapability and a sixth sense for blind side oncoming pass rushers. And brass balls fitting passes into small windows. Just enough scrambling ability to hurt opposing defenses, but not enough to tempt him to overuse that ability. He knows his offense and performs well in it.

Missing out on him in the Donahoe days doomed this franchise more than any single thing I can think of, ever.

[k-oneputt]

Pat Mahomes

[Thurmal]

Missing out on him in the Donahoe days doomed this franchise more than any single thing I can think of, ever.
On many levels. B/c they missed out on him, they panicked and traded up for Losman, which cost them the 1st rounder that they would've used on Aaron Rodgers had they just waited one more year for a QB.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Why do fans say this all the time? You can teach any football skill. Accuracy is a learned trait. It isn't some innate skill that never evolves or devolves. All it takes is a good coach/mentor.

You can't teach people who think things can't be taught. That's why they say it.

[Thurmal]

You can't teach people who think things can't be taught. That's why they say it.
There's no way to teach an inaccurate QB to be accurate, much like there's no way to teach a junkball pitcher to suddenly start throwing 100 MPH fastballs.

[Bill Cody]

Why do fans say this all the time? You can teach any football skill. Accuracy is a learned trait. It isn't some innate skill that never evolves or devolves. All it takes is a good coach/mentor.

So you should be able to provide a substantial list of QB's who were not accurate in college but became accurate in the pro's, right?

[WagonCircler]

There's no way to teach an inaccurate QB to be accurate, much like there's no way to teach a junkball pitcher to suddenly start throwing 100 MPH fastballs.

The very most you can do is improve footwork and delivery mechanics, and that can improve accuracy only incrementally. It's more like fine tuning.

But mechanical problems like those should long have been fixed by the time a QB reaches the NFL. Mechanics need to be muscle memory by then, because the number of things a QB needs to concentrate on increase exponentially at the NFL level.

That was the huge red flag with EJ that was evident to anyone with eyes who was not in denial. He never stopped struggling with mechanics, and to compound the problem, his natural, unteachable accuracy, was non-existent. That kind of accuracy has more to do with depth perception and hand-eye coordination, and that cannot be acquired. You either have it or you don't.

It's exactly like speed. You can fine tune it and shave tenths of a second off of it, but you can't go from being slow to fast.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

There's no way to teach an inaccurate QB to be accurate, much like there's no way to teach a junkball pitcher to suddenly start throwing 100 MPH fastballs.

And I can't teach you you're wrong.

[sukie]

A lousy golfer cannot improve and face it, your 180 bowling average is now a constant.

[Buckets]

I'd argue Cardale is WAY more raw than EJ was coming out, but it's difficult to say considering Nate Hackett squandered any potential Manuel once had.

Raw - Polished whatever, EJ just sucked it up and should not have been drafted.

[ICRockets]

So you should be able to provide a substantial list of QB's who were not accurate in college but became accurate in the pro's, right?
Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco have all improved their completion percentage by a significant degree throughout their professional career.

[The Jokeman]

The very most you can do is improve footwork and delivery mechanics, and that can improve accuracy only incrementally. It's more like fine tuning.

But mechanical problems like those should long have been fixed by the time a QB reaches the NFL. Mechanics need to be muscle memory by then, because the number of things a QB needs to concentrate on increase exponentially at the NFL level.

That was the huge red flag with EJ that was evident to anyone with eyes who was not in denial. He never stopped struggling with mechanics, and to compound the problem, his natural, unteachable accuracy, was non-existent. That kind of accuracy has more to do with depth perception and hand-eye coordination, and that cannot be acquired. You either have it or you don't.

It's exactly like speed. You can fine tune it and shave tenths of a second off of it, but you can't go from being slow to fast.

When you make arguments like this it's tough not to agree with you and wish do it more as like reading well thought out posts that make sense vs just saying and so is trash but don't bring up details. You bring up some great points in this post. Kudos.

[Thurmal]

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco have all improved their completion percentage by a significant degree throughout their professional career.

Those guys were all good to begin with! From day one! Yeah, good QBs can become great, of course. Below average QBs never turn into great players.

[ICRockets]

Those guys were all good to begin with! From day one! Yeah, good QBs can become great, of course. Below average QBs never turn into great players.
Yeah, Tom Brady was so good on day one that he didn't get drafted on it.

[Thurmal]

Yeah, Tom Brady was so good on day one that he didn't get drafted on it.
He won the SB the first year he ever saw playing time in the NFL.

[ICRockets]

He won the SB the first year he ever saw playing time in the NFL.
He sure did. It's amazing what an elite coach can do for a milquetoast talent.

[Turf]

Gruden praises everyone and says everyone is great. John Gruden football is coming to replace Madden one day, I just hope they fix it. Of course it is EA who sucks.

[Mouldsie]

Brady is an anomaly. He was a top talent based on Michigan tape and on field performance but Drew Henson and his own lame body at the combine caused his draft fall.

Russel Wilson was a 1st rounder on tape too. Height caused his drop.

Dak was way undervalued based on performance as well and I'm still not sure why.

Anyway. Carry on...

[BillsImpossible]

I don't understand why anyone wants Frank Reich to be our HC...

Reich is a former NFL QB (duh), and did a very good job coaching Carson Wentz this year.

The Eagles finished 7-9 with a rookie QB in Wentz. They lost a lot of very close games, and played a brutal schedule.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2573079/carson-wentz

Wentz finished the year with a 62% completion percentage, threw for 3,782 yards, 16 TD's and 14 Int's.

I like the idea of having Reich as the HC to help Cardale Jones become great...supported by the league's best rushing offense under A. Lynn as OC.

Reich has been an offensive coordinator for three years, and he was also quarterback coach in Indianapolis and San Diego. He was also a WR coach in Indy and Arizona.

Reich for the pass as HC, Lynn for the run as OC.

DC would be either Schwartz or Bradley.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/csn/eagles/Report__Bills_to_interview_Eagles_OC_Frank_Reich_for_head_coaching_job-409371685.html

Vic Carucci
✔@viccarucci (https://twitter.com/viccarucci)

Can confirm #Bills (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash) will interview #Panthers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Panthers?src=hash) DC Sean McDermott for HC. Also, #Eagles (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Eagles?src=hash) OC Frank Reich expected to be interviewed, sources say.
3:25 PM - 2 Jan 2017 (https://twitter.com/viccarucci/status/816017549582286859)

[Thurmal]

He sure did. It's amazing what an elite coach can do for a milquetoast talent.
Why didn't that same elite coach make stars out of Matt Cassell, Bryan Hoyer, and Ryan Mallett, then?

[stuckincincy]

[QUOTE=Turf;4291413]Gruden praises everyone and says everyone is great. John Gruden football is coming to replace Madden one day, I just hope they fix it. Of course it is EA who sucks.[/QUOTE

Yes, he does. Quite funny, too. His Tampa pressers were a riot.

[BillsImpossible]

Tom Brady is, "milquetoast," lol.

[Mace]

Reich is a former NFL QB (duh), and did a very good job coaching Carson Wentz this year.

The Eagles finished 7-9 with a rookie QB in Wentz. They lost a lot of very close games, and played a brutal schedule.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2573079/carson-wentz

Wentz finished the year with a 62% completion percentage, threw for 3,782 yards, 16 TD's and 14 Int's.

I like the idea of having Reich as the HC to help Cardale Jones become great...supported by the league's best rushing offense under A. Lynn as OC.

Reich has been an offensive coordinator for three years, and he was also quarterback coach in Indianapolis and San Diego. He was also a WR coach in Indy and Arizona.

Reich for the pass as HC, Lynn for the run as OC.

DC would be either Schwartz or Bradley.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/csn/eagles/Report__Bills_to_interview_Eagles_OC_Frank_Reich_for_head_coaching_job-409371685.html

Vic Carucci
✔@viccarucci (https://twitter.com/viccarucci)

Can confirm #Bills (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Bills?src=hash) will interview #Panthers (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Panthers?src=hash) DC Sean McDermott for HC. Also, #Eagles (https://twitter.com/hashtag/Eagles?src=hash) OC Frank Reich expected to be interviewed, sources say.
3:25 PM - 2 Jan 2017 (https://twitter.com/viccarucci/status/816017549582286859)


Schwartz won't happen, he's under contract and it's lateral, they don't even have to give permission and no reason to think they would because they improved that much.

I've concluded Reich is too smart, he'll know better and won't be desperate enough to come here.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Schwartz won't happen, he's under contract and it's lateral, they don't even have to give permission and no reason to think they would because they improved that much.

I've concluded Reich is too smart, he'll know better and won't be desperate enough to come here.

Reich is also super-religious, so his adding a new book to the Bible might appeal.

Plus his name means "Kingdom of France" in German, but I don't know what that means.

[Turf]

Whaley requires a gnome from Belgium. So that rules out Reich.

[stuckincincy]

Plus his name means "Kingdom of France" in German, but I don't know what that means.

It means it's a stretch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich

The common usage meaning these days is a "richness"...

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

It means it's a stretch.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich

The common usage meaning these days is a "richness"...

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankreich

Dont **** with me I'm CIA.

[stuckincincy]

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankreich

Dont **** with me I'm CIA.

Oh good - the famed culinary institute. Cook me an omelet.

[ICRockets]

Tom Brady is, "milquetoast," lol.
Was.

[ICRockets]

Why didn't that same elite coach make stars out of Matt Cassell, Bryan Hoyer, and Ryan Mallett, then?
Maybe their new coaches didn't let them do things the way they did them in Foxboro. You've never heard of letting ego or scheme get in the way of a good idea? They're football coaches, not saints.

[YardRat]

If accuracy can't be taught then why have coaches at every level wasted time running their QB's through drills to try to improve that aspect of their game since the forward pass was born? They aren't throwing 100 balls a day through the old tire hanging in the tree to improve their strength.

[DraftBoy]

Accuracy as a whole can be taught, that's not questionable. There are many factors to accuracy that go beyond just the physical throwing and placement of the ball. The timing of the play, reading the defense, anticipating the coverage, are all examples of things that can be learned and will improve a QB's accuracy.

[swiper]

He sure did. It's amazing what an elite coach can do for a milquetoast talent.

Wrong again fatso. Brady is elite talent and a relentless worker. No QB prepares as he does. No coach taught him that work ethic. Go have a another salad.

[swiper]

Accuracy as a whole can be taught, that's not questionable. There are many factors to accuracy that go beyond just the physical throwing and placement of the ball. The timing of the play, reading the defense, anticipating the coverage, are all examples of things that can be learned and will improve a QB's accuracy.

It's not a matter of "teaching" it. It's a matter of practice makes perfect. If the coach can force the QB to throw more and you want to give the coach credit for it, that's fine - but he's not really teaching anything.

[djjimkelly]

has this thread not died yet.

my heart skips a beat when i think cardale jones buffalo bills starter. everyone on this board should have that same feeling.

it sickens me to think this is a possibility a very small one IMO but just sick

[DraftBoy]

It's not a matter of "teaching" it. It's a matter of practice makes perfect. If the coach can force the QB to throw more and you want to give the coach credit for it, that's fine - but he's not really teaching anything.

I think we're splitting hairs on what is teaching and what is not. How about this...Is it possible for a player to improve his accuracy? Yes.

[YardRat]

There might be a study out there that shows people are either born with the 'throwing a football accurately' gene or the 'gay' gene. I don't think they have figured out yet how Tom Brady got both.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

There might be a study out there that shows people are either born with the 'throwing a football accurately' gene or the 'gay' gene. I don't think they have figured out yet how Tom Brady got both.

It was Dr. Scholl's foot powder in his Uggs with a candlestick in the library.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Oh good - the famed culinary institute. Cook me an omelet.

All you have to do is sit in a sauna cuz yore ass is a chicken vulva

[Bill Cody]

Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco have all improved their completion percentage by a significant degree throughout their professional career.

Not what I asked. But it's not surprising you failed to understand the question. All those QB's were already accurate passers, improvement is certainly possible, if you have the aptitude. I'm looking for examples of QB's that weren't very accurate in college but became accurate in the pro's. I know examples of guys that never became very accurate. Guys like Tim Tebow. Or Demarcus Russell. Or Kyle Boller. Or Rex Grossman. Or Ryan Mallett. Or Michael Vick. Or Jake Locker. Or Geno Smith. Or EJ Manuel. They all had access to pro coaching.

[ICRockets]

Not what I asked. But it's not surprising you failed to understand the question. All those QB's were already accurate passers, improvement is certainly possible, if you have the aptitude. I'm looking for examples of QB's that weren't very accurate in college but became accurate in the pro's. I know examples of guys that never became very accurate. Guys like Tim Tebow. Or Demarcus Russell. Or Kyle Boller. Or Rex Grossman. Or Ryan Mallett. Or Michael Vick. Or Jake Locker. Or Geno Smith. Or EJ Manuel. They all had access to pro coaching.

You mean the Geno Smith and EJ Manuel who both had 67% completion in college?

[Bill Cody]

You mean the Geno Smith and EJ Manuel who both had 67% completion in college?

right. So pro coaching made them...worse

[Bill Cody]

There might be a study out there that shows people are either born with the 'throwing a football accurately' gene or the 'gay' gene. I don't think they have figured out yet how Tom Brady got both.

Brady was scrawny coming out of college. I think that and the fact that he shared time with Drew Henson made him drop. His mechanics were always great. Great footwork. What improved was he got a lot stronger including arm strength and he worked harder at the job than anyone. Do we have any indication Jones is that kind of worker? I do think college stats can be misleading also. Tebow had good college stats but he was throwing to top receivers who often looked like they were standing in wheat fields they were so open. I think most of the people on this board could attend a pro practice or two and judge how accurate a QB is, I know I could. If you watched Manuel in college at all he was very conservative, threw a lot of safe, easy passes that pad the stats.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Dam Marino - 16
Jim Kelly - 15
Didn't Trent Edwards get a high 30s?

[Mr. Cynical]

In my eyes, the QB has to be a leader, first and foremost. If he can truly lead a team, get them to play up, command the offense (aka be a Field General) and has a good enough (does not need a rocket) arm to make the throws and move the chains at CRITICAL points in the game, it's all good. Kelly basically said as much about the current roster on his recent appearance with ESPN. None of them are "leaders".

So, that said, clearly Jones has a Juggs machine for an arm, but I want to know if he can LEAD. Tyrod can't. You see it in his body language all the time.

You think Brady would put up with drops or bad routes?

Hell no. He gets up in their grills.

You think Brady would put up with missed blocks or blitz pickups?

Hell no. He gets up in their grills.

You think Brady would walk off the field after a bad throw and sit dejected or down?

Hell no. He gets up in his own grill, takes the blame and still fires up of the rest of the offense.

Point being, we need a real leader, plain and simple.

[BillsImpossible]

Never once did Tyrod Taylor give a post game press interview and say, "It's my fault, I have to be better."

He never pointed the finger at himself and instead blamed every loss on the collective team.

That's not a leader.

[ICRockets]

right. So pro coaching made them...worse

Gosh, you're right, that does sound silly. I forgot the NFL is where the WORST college players go, so the competition gets much lighter. Thanks for pointing out my error!