Dumping Tyrod right now is Stupid

[jamze132]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18412571/nfl-2016-chris-mortensen-adam-schefter-wild-card-notebook-tyrod-taylor-future-buffalo-bills

Buffalo is instead planning to move on from Taylor, despite the fact that their scoring has increased dramatically since he arrived. The year before he got to Buffalo, the Bills were 26th, and they've been 10th and 11th in the two years he has started. He's clearly a huge part of the difference.

He also was seventh in Total QBR last season, and ninth in 2016. People in that company get major dollars.

-- Adam Schefter

Couldn't agree more. He also doesn't turn the ball over...

[Turf]

I don't see how they do better with whats out there. If they don't improve at QB, another wasted two years and another coach fired, and hopefully Whaley with them I am really starting to hate Whaley as GM. Not just dislike, but despise the way he handles his royal robes. Everything he does is arrogant.

[jimmifli]

I read somewhere today that this contract puts him 17th for cap hit for QBs. I'm not sure I can name 16 better QBs, maybe, but not many more. And almost none of them are available.

So as dumb as the contract is, it's still close to market value. Which is pretty good since we got this season for a discount.

[Mace]

I can't agree. Because why did their scoring increase dramatically ? The running game.

2014 - 23 passing td's, 7 rushing td's.
2015 - 23 passing, 19 rushing.
2016 - 17 passing, 29 rushing.

[swiper]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18412571/nfl-2016-chris-mortensen-adam-schefter-wild-card-notebook-tyrod-taylor-future-buffalo-bills

Buffalo is instead planning to move on from Taylor, despite the fact that their scoring has increased dramatically since he arrived. The year before he got to Buffalo, the Bills were 26th, and they've been 10th and 11th in the two years he has started. He's clearly a huge part of the difference.

He also was seventh in Total QBR last season, and ninth in 2016. People in that company get major dollars.

-- Adam Schefter

Couldn't agree more. He also doesn't turn the ball over...

****ING STOP USING THAT STUPID QBR STAT. IT IS A FAKE STAT. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD. NO ONE PUTS ANY MERIT TO IT EXCEPT ESPN WHO CLAIMS TO HAVE INVENTED IT.

Read this, then NEVER bring up that stupid stat ever again: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/10/espns-qbr-ranks-ryan-fitzpatrick-ahead-of-tom-brady/

[Thurmal]

I can't agree. Because why did their scoring increase dramatically ? The running game.

2014 - 23 passing td's, 7 rushing td's.
2015 - 23 passing, 19 rushing.
2016 - 17 passing, 29 rushing.
Amazing how many Tyrod backers just ignore the fact that his emergence as starter coincided perfectly with the Bills picking up one of the best RBs of the last 25 years in his prime.

[swiper]

I don't see how they do better with whats out there. If they don't improve at QB, another wasted two years and another coach fired, and hopefully Whaley with them I am really starting to hate Whaley as GM. Not just dislike, but despise the way he handles his royal robes. Everything he does is arrogant.

But don't you have sympathy after he pulled that sad "I don't really have any power" card earlier this week?

[ICRockets]

****ING STOP USING THAT STUPID QBR STAT. IT IS A FAKE STAT. HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD. NO ONE PUTS ANY MERIT TO IT EXCEPT ESPN WHO CLAIMS TO HAVE INVENTED IT.

Read this, then NEVER bring up that stupid stat ever again: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/11/10/espns-qbr-ranks-ryan-fitzpatrick-ahead-of-tom-brady/
Using one article from the middle of the season to declare that the statistic has NO value whatsoever is pretty myopic. Look at the final rankings of both 2015 and 2016 and the majority of that list makes a lot of sense. Obviously it's not the grand poobah of quarterback performance evaluators, but it has its value as part of a complete breakf- err, uh, analysis.

[OpIv37]

I can't agree. Because why did their scoring increase dramatically ? The running game.

2014 - 23 passing td's, 7 rushing td's.
2015 - 23 passing, 19 rushing.
2016 - 17 passing, 29 rushing.
You do know that Taylor had 22% of the team's rushing yards in 2016, right? He's a big reason why the running game got better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed in his progress. I just don't see any better possibilities being available. We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.

[ICRockets]

We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.

Yep. And logic dictates that making Tyrod a fixed variable in our experiment should make it easier to build around him. Nature may abhor vacuums, but chaos reigns supreme in one and that's exactly what we'd be creating by getting rid of him.

[Zero]

You do know that Taylor had 22% of the team's rushing yards in 2016, right? He's a big reason why the running game got better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed in his progress. I just don't see any better possibilities being available. We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.
this^^

The contract's balloon payment should not preclude us from keeping Tyrod as he's better than any alternative out there.

[swiper]

Using one article from the middle of the season to declare that the statistic has NO value whatsoever is pretty myopic. Look at the final rankings of both 2015 and 2016 and the majority of that list makes a lot of sense. Obviously it's not the grand poobah of quarterback performance evaluators, but it has its value as part of a complete breakf- err, uh, analysis.

Read the article fatboy. It's not even a statistic. You could stand to be more myopic when your dinner is served every night.

[swiper]

this^^


This... is stupid. I want a QB not a RB wearing a QB number.

[Thurmal]

Yards Taylor threw for in his wins in Buffalo:

195, 277, 109, 181, 158, 211, 179, 182, 119, 246, 124, 179, 166, 166, 174.

He's a decent game-manager, yes. He is not a guy that you pick up an option on that will pay him $27 million next year and guarantee him $30 million. For a team in cap trouble, they can get comparable numbers from someone else and save a boatload of money.

[Turf]

I can't agree. Because why did their scoring increase dramatically ? The running game.

2014 - 23 passing td's, 7 rushing td's.
2015 - 23 passing, 19 rushing.
2016 - 17 passing, 29 rushing.

Taylor probably accounts for 1/3 of the running stat. I don't feel like this team can run the ball when it needs to. It's inflated by Tyrods scrambling. This offensive line isn't as good as everyone thinks.

[Mace]

You do know that Taylor had 22% of the team's rushing yards in 2016, right? He's a big reason why the running game got better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed in his progress. I just don't see any better possibilities being available. We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.

Well sure I do. But the team has a rushing oriented offense, McCoy and Gillislee. Taylor's rushing yards come on broken pass plays in most cases. All you're proving is that he's a good running QB on pass plays he's not good enough to pass on. We're talking the rise in scoring. That's no less running game.

We all watched the same games, saw the same open receivers he didn't see, and besides his one 300 yard game, saw him unable to muster two minute drives and pass his way down the field.

He's elusive, doesn't manufacture turnovers, and can run like the wind. Has he elevated the team ? I sure don't think so.

If he renegotiates, fine, use him as a bridge QB, he's stable enough and as I said in the other thread, won't goof games up.

We're not a contender though, and he hasn't elevated the offense so much as not goofed it up. Does that make him worth clutching onto ? Not to me, anyway.

[OpIv37]

Yards Taylor threw for in his wins in Buffalo:

195, 277, 109, 181, 158, 211, 179, 182, 119, 246, 124, 179, 166, 166, 174.

He's a decent game-manager, yes. He is not a guy that you pick up an option on that will pay him $27 million next year and guarantee him $30 million. For a team in cap trouble, they can get comparable numbers from someone else and save a boatload of money.

Well, think of it this way: Tyrod counts for just under $16 million against the cap. If we cut him, the dead cap is just under $3 million.

So, the net cap gain by cutting him is just under $13 million.

Who are we going to get at QB that's equal or better for $13 million?

Like I said before, if this team wants to go full rebuild, fine. Cut Tyrod, eat the $3 million, ditch big contracts and start over. If this team wants to win now, Tyrod is the best available option. I know that's not saying much, but reality is what it is.

[jamze132]

I can't agree. Because why did their scoring increase dramatically ? The running game.

2014 - 23 passing td's, 7 rushing td's.
2015 - 23 passing, 19 rushing.
2016 - 17 passing, 29 rushing.

And the running is gauranteed to suffer without Tyrod.

[jamze132]

This... is stupid. I want a QB not a RB wearing a QB number.

We all do. When you find one, let OBD know.

[jamze132]

Yards Taylor threw for in his wins in Buffalo:

195, 277, 109, 181, 158, 211, 179, 182, 119, 246, 124, 179, 166, 166, 174.

He's a decent game-manager, yes. He is not a guy that you pick up an option on that will pay him $27 million next year and guarantee him $30 million. For a team in cap trouble, they can get comparable numbers from someone else and save a boatload of money.

You can't just look at his passing yards and make a determination. How many plays did he extend with his legs? How many turnovers was he responsible for?

[The Beef]

And the running is gauranteed to suffer without Tyrod.

As a blanket statement, this isn't true.

Does the Steelers run game struggle because Big Ben doesn't run for 500 yards a year? How about the Patriots run game? Atlanta?

And as good as the run game was it doesn't equate to wins. A more balanced approach would be better, sure Tyrod's stats inflate the nice YPC the team averaged, but that doesn't mean Shady is going to suffer because teams don't have to worry about Tyrod. Shady is an elite talent, he can make plays with damn near anyone as the QB.

Now you a put a bum back there like Case Keenum or Geno Smith of course the offense is going to suffer.

[BillsFanCupp38]

Bottom line is this... If you can't get your hands on anyone better than you have to keep him. He's better than Cardale Jones who, as of now, is the only qb on the roster pegged to be on the team next year. Unless they can get Romo or Rivers or another qb of that caliber then it's pointless. Maybe Cardale Jones is better but I don't know if he is or ever will be. We see 4th round qb's get drafted all the time and then in a couple of years you never hear about them again.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

People are pinning their hopes on Romo or Cousins coming here and there's little to suggest we'd win a bidding war for Romo or that Cousins will even hit the market. I think we should pick up the option but draft another development qb.

[mdcas22]

I read somewhere today that this contract puts him 17th for cap hit for QBs. I'm not sure I can name 16 better QBs, maybe, but not many more. And almost none of them are available.

So as dumb as the contract is, it's still close to market value. Which is pretty good since we got this season for a discount.

if this is true then it should be no problem with trading him.

[mdcas22]

You do know that Taylor had 22% of the team's rushing yards in 2016, right? He's a big reason why the running game got better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed in his progress. I just don't see any better possibilities being available. We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.

I wonder if Dallas said that last year before they drafted a 4th rnd guy that all of a sudden is better? we don't no 1st off who we grab, we might draft Kizer out of Notre Dame and he lights it up and looks like Luck, who no's.

[bdutton]

We would probably be 13-3 and in the playoffs if we had kept the Schwarz defense in place. We went from a top 5 defense to a bottom 5 defense in two years while the offense has performed top 10 in scoring. Getting rid of Tyrod now is stupid. We can win games with him with a better defense.

[jamze132]

As a blanket statement, this isn't true.

Does the Steelers run game struggle because Big Ben doesn't run for 500 yards a year? How about the Patriots run game? Atlanta?

And as good as the run game was it doesn't equate to wins. A more balanced approach would be better, sure Tyrod's stats inflate the nice YPC the team averaged, but that doesn't mean Shady is going to suffer because teams don't have to worry about Tyrod. Shady is an elite talent, he can make plays with damn near anyone as the QB.

Now you a put a bum back there like Case Keenum or Geno Smith of course the offense is going to suffer.
Those teams are built different than ours. Tyrod and Shady form a pretty formidable duo and they led the way to us scoring more points than 20 teams. I can't think of a better QB who is available who is going to be that productive on THIS team.

[HHURRICANE]

I can't agree. Because why did their scoring increase dramatically ? The running game.

2014 - 23 passing td's, 7 rushing td's.
2015 - 23 passing, 19 rushing.
2016 - 17 passing, 29 rushing.

I'm not a huge Tyrod fan but he's the best QB we've had here since Flutie. In addition, I could make the case that a mobile QB helps your running game because it adds another issue that Defenses have to gameplan for.

Not one person can provide a QB that is better and Tyrod can almost certainly get equal money if he is released.

[jimmifli]

if this is true then it should be no problem with trading him.

No, your logic is bad.

[Mace]

We would probably be 13-3 and in the playoffs if we had kept the Schwarz defense in place. We went from a top 5 defense to a bottom 5 defense in two years while the offense has performed top 10 in scoring. Getting rid of Tyrod now is stupid. We can win games with him with a better defense.

All I can really say is that even a Schwartz defense needs a QB to pass the team down the field sometimes.

Being an elusive QB ala Roethlisberger who passes it, is good. I've always said and will again, you see rookie QB's directing their receivers and assertively commanding their offenses, changing calls at the line to take advantage of mismatches, etc. An elusive QB who is instead looking for running lanes and not directing receivers, opens himself up for more hits, can more easily be stopped by teams smart enough to shadow him, and has more trouble against teams that will inevitably stack the box. Good teams do that.

Maybe it's me, but I don't see them going toe to toe with the big boys, matching scoring drives. The Miami game doesn't create a consistent history of it. A better defense will limit some of those drives, but you still need a QB who can pass, and run an efficient quick passing offense when required.

If you want mediocre not goofing things up quarterbacking, and he renegotiates lower as a bridge to something, fine. Tyrod's your 8-8 guy, because running games take a lot of time and can be stopped if you look at our win total.

If you want a guy to make us a contender though, it's not Taylor.

I don't like clutching the least worse guys anymore. Been through this for decades. It gets us what we always have, nothing much.

[bdutton]

All I can really say is that even a Schwartz defense needs a QB to pass the team down the field sometimes.

Being an elusive QB ala Roethlisberger who passes it, is good. I've always said and will again, you see rookie QB's directing their receivers and assertively commanding their offenses, changing calls at the line to take advantage of mismatches, etc. An elusive QB who is instead looking for running lanes and not directing receivers, opens himself up for more hits, can more easily be stopped by teams smart enough to shadow him, and has more trouble against teams that will inevitably stack the box. Good teams do that.

Maybe it's me, but I don't see them going toe to toe with the big boys, matching scoring drives. The Miami game doesn't create a consistent history of it. A better defense will limit some of those drives, but you still need a QB who can pass, and run an efficient quick passing offense when required.

If you want mediocre not goofing things up quarterbacking, and he renegotiates lower as a bridge to something, fine. Tyrod's your 8-8 guy, because running games take a lot of time and can be stopped if you look at our win total.

If you want a guy to make us a contender though, it's not Taylor.

I don't like clutching the least worse guys anymore. Been through this for decades. It gets us what we always have, nothing much.

I'm not saying he's a franchise QB. He's clearly not.

But he's a serviceable option that we could be a playoff team with if the defense didn't suck so bad. Plus there is nothing else out there in FA or for trade as an upgrade.

Getting a franchise QB in the draft is a highly iffy proposition even if you have high draft picks.

[Mr. Cynical]

This... is stupid. I want a QB not a RB wearing a QB number.

^This

[Mr. Cynical]

Being an elusive QB ala Roethlisberger who passes it, is good. I've always said and will again, you see rookie QB's directing their receivers and assertively commanding their offenses, changing calls at the line to take advantage of mismatches, etc. An elusive QB who is instead looking for running lanes and not directing receivers, opens himself up for more hits, can more easily be stopped by teams smart enough to shadow him, and has more trouble against teams that will inevitably stack the box. Good teams do that.


You win best post of the day with this one. You just don't see Tyrod taking *control* of the offense, and that is ultimately why he will never be a franchise QB. Full stop.

[Mace]

I'm not saying he's a franchise QB. He's clearly not.

But he's a serviceable option that we could be a playoff team with if the defense didn't suck so bad. Plus there is nothing else out there in FA or for trade as an upgrade.

Getting a franchise QB in the draft is a highly iffy proposition even if you have high draft picks.

I agree with what you're saying, I don't despise Taylor as much as I don't think he's adequate to take an offense anywhere. He's good enough to not be bad, not good enough to be an answer.

But if you plant him as a bridge, what's he being a bridge to ? It's not going to be a developmental guy unless they have people to develop that guy in a system he isn't suited for under Taylor, it can't be to figure a running game will make you a contender when you need redo your defense and find receivers he can't pass to reliably, it can't be to another vet placeholder who isn't out there because he doesn't fit a Taylor offense, it can't be to a better passing offense because he doesn't pass decisively.

So you're essentially committing to a guy who isn't bad but can't succeed, as a bridge that doesn't go anywhere, built for him but not enough for him to take it anywhere, nor good enough to train anyone else who can pass.

Committing to Taylor doesn't go anywhere, sets you up with least worse and essentially creates a system you can't improve without replacing him anyway while being perpetually unable to compete with good teams if you want to give your QB his best chance, which isn't passing.

[cookie G]

All I can really say is that even a Schwartz defense needs a QB to pass the team down the field sometimes.

Being an elusive QB ala Roethlisberger who passes it, is good. I've always said and will again, you see rookie QB's directing their receivers and assertively commanding their offenses, changing calls at the line to take advantage of mismatches, etc. An elusive QB who is instead looking for running lanes and not directing receivers, opens himself up for more hits, can more easily be stopped by teams smart enough to shadow him, and has more trouble against teams that will inevitably stack the box. Good teams do that.

Maybe it's me, but I don't see them going toe to toe with the big boys, matching scoring drives. The Miami game doesn't create a consistent history of it. A better defense will limit some of those drives, but you still need a QB who can pass, and run an efficient quick passing offense when required.

If you want mediocre not goofing things up quarterbacking, and he renegotiates lower as a bridge to something, fine. Tyrod's your 8-8 guy, because running games take a lot of time and can be stopped if you look at our win total.

If you want a guy to make us a contender though, it's not Taylor.

I don't like clutching the least worse guys anymore. Been through this for decades. It gets us what we always have, nothing much.

Well, its about the 4th time Big Ben has been brought up in the past few days.

You know what? A damn good QB, and a guy that we screwed up on in 2004. As someone else said, had they gave to Jax in 2004 what they gave to Dallas for Losman..we probably would have had him.

But you know what else? We don't make the playoffs with him 2015 or in 2016.

As far as this "going drive for drive with the big boys".....people have a myth going.

When the opponent scores more than 20 pts....Big Ben's lifetime record is
25-47 34%

2016 2-4
2015 2-2
2014 6-5
2013 2-6
2012 0-5
2011 0-2
2010 2-2
2009 3-3
2008 1-3
2007 2-5
2006 1-6
2005 2-3
2004 2-1

25-47 34%

It gets worse, obviously when the Steelers give up more than 24...and his winning % is around 20 when they give up 30 or more points.

The Bills D gave up more than 20 pts 9 times this year, and 9 times in 2015. If you're lucky, he wins 3 of those games.


And this is a 4 time Pro Bowler you're talking about...and a guy with SB jewelry.

But Steelers play today because their D did a great job of keeping him out of shootout situations, rather than expecting him to bail them out every week. If they really relied on him to bail them out every week, they'd be drafting around 10th and watching today instead of playing.

[Night Train]

This is like holding on to Bledsoe too long when he looked done halfway through the 2002 season, after a hot start.

But we kept him for another couple years and accepted mediocrity because we feared something worse. It got us NOWHERE. Then we compounded it by throw a completely raw Losman to the wolves.

Taylor is a TRANSITION QB, holding the fort for the next guy. 2 years. Job done. Cannot beat a winning team. Misses open receivers. Waits for reciving options to run themselves open, like a college QB. No playoffs.

Move on.

[justasportsfan]

Tyrod = caretaker with an awesome ability to run
= back up that can run.

With that said i wish we could pay him a salary in between what a back up makes and a starter makes. I know its not gonna happen.

[YardRat]

Well, think of it this way: Tyrod counts for just under $16 million against the cap. If we cut him, the dead cap is just under $3 million.

So, the net cap gain by cutting him is just under $13 million.

Who are we going to get at QB that's equal or better for $13 million?

Like I said before, if this team wants to go full rebuild, fine. Cut Tyrod, eat the $3 million, ditch big contracts and start over. If this team wants to win now, Tyrod is the best available option. I know that's not saying much, but reality is what it is.

I'm having a difficult time grasping the concept that somebody that has constantly *****ed about mediocrity over the years now wants to pony up 30mil for...wait for it...mediocrity.

[Mace]

Well, its about the 4th time Big Ben has been brought up in the past few days.

You know what? A damn good QB, and a guy that we screwed up on in 2004. As someone else said, had they gave to Jax in 2004 what they gave to Dallas for Losman..we probably would have had him.

But you know what else? We don't make the playoffs with him 2015 or in 2016.

As far as this "going drive for drive with the big boys".....people have a myth going.

When the opponent scores more than 20 pts....Big Ben's lifetime record is
25-47 34%

2016 2-4
2015 2-2
2014 6-5
2013 2-6
2012 0-5
2011 0-2
2010 2-2
2009 3-3
2008 1-3
2007 2-5
2006 1-6
2005 2-3
2004 2-1

25-47 34%

It gets worse, obviously when the Steelers give up more than 24...and his winning % is around 20 when they give up 30 or more points.

The Bills D gave up more than 20 pts 9 times this year, and 9 times in 2015. If you're lucky, he wins 3 of those games.


And this is a 4 time Pro Bowler you're talking about...and a guy with SB jewelry.

But Steelers play today because their D did a great job of keeping him out of shootout situations, rather than expecting him to bail them out every week. If they really relied on him to bail them out every week, they'd be drafting around 10th and watching today instead of playing.

Come on Cookie, if you read my post that you replied to, Roethlisberger was used as a comparison of elusiveness. To restate it, he uses his elusiveness to find receivers to pass to. As I said, Taylor uses his largely to look for a running lane.

But I'm sure you see a lot of games. You see QB's direct receivers and command offenses. You see teams trading leads multiple times in a few minutes. You see QB's pass their way down the field when required. You don't see Tyrod Taylor do this.

That's competing with the big boys.

The fading era of elites though....Rothlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, Brady....well you don't find QB's like that nowadays.

But you see offensive direction and authority from Mariota, Winston, Wentz, Prescott. You see them responding to coverages, making adjustments or audibles at the line, direct receivers. Why do you not see Taylor do this ? Because he can't. He can't run crisp efficient 2 minute or hurry up offense with his arm. This isn't even arguable if you watch the games.

Taylor runs plays, doesn't make mistakes, looks to run with his elusiveness and can't carry the team when needed. If needed, you just see him play his same game, because he has no more levels to it.

You can blame a crap defense if you want, but Taylor's passing performance, and again, he's a QB, speaks for itself.

[YardRat]

Brady's barely above a .500 QB when the opponent scores 20 points or more, and their record in those instances was actually really pathetic in the early years of his career. They caught up and surpassed even money when they started to completely ignore the run game, however.

[Mace]

Brady's barely above a .500 QB when the opponent scores 20 points or more, and their record in those instances was actually really pathetic in the early years of his career. They caught up and surpassed even money when they started to completely ignore the run game, however.

I don't know. To me it seems pretty clear from watching games, who can efficiently pass their pay down the field and who can't in crunch time.

[GingerP]

Brady's barely above a .500 QB when the opponent scores 20 points or more, and their record in those instances was actually really pathetic in the early years of his career. They caught up and surpassed even money when they started to completely ignore the run game, however.

Since 2001, best record when the opponent scores 21 or more (min. 50 games):

Tom Brady: 67-50 (57%)
Peyton Manning: 59-64 (48%)
Aaron Rodgers: 33-37 (47%)
Jake Delhomme: 19-27 (41%)
Tony Romo: 28-41 (41%)

[feldspar]

You do know that Taylor had 22% of the team's rushing yards in 2016, right? He's a big reason why the running game got better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed in his progress. I just don't see any better possibilities being available. We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.

Stats themselves are for **** in the long-run, anyway. The Chargers had the #1 offense AND the #1 defense in 2010, and they STILL did not make the playoffs that year. "Stat guys" might not figure this possible.

Taylor adds so much more to the running game than the fact that he runs very well himself. Plays are designed around the THREAT of his running a lot, too, causing misdirection to the opposing defense. This opens up running lanes for the backs...

I'm convinced that the Bills would have turned the ball over the fewest times in NFL history this year had Tyrod played the last game. I think the Bills turned it over only 9 times through 15 games until the incompetent QBs basically created 3 in the final game against the Jets.

[Ingtar33]

Stats themselves are for **** in the long-run, anyway. The Chargers had the #1 offense AND the #1 defense in 2010, and they STILL did not make the playoffs that year. "Stat guys" might not figure this possible.

Taylor adds so much more to the running game than the fact that he runs very well himself. Plays are designed around the THREAT of his running a lot, too, causing misdirection to the opposing defense. This opens up running lanes for the backs...

I'm convinced that the Bills would have turned the ball over the fewest times in NFL history this year had Tyrod played the last game. I think the Bills turned it over only 9 times through 15 games until the incompetent QBs basically created 3 in the final game against the Jets.

Its no use talking sense at them. They're angry and frustrated, and won't be able to appreciate what we had with TT until he wins a superbowl with Denver next year. Then these same people will be calling for DW's head for cutting him; while we moan about not having a TT capable game manager for the next dozen years.

[Bill Cody]

Its no use talking sense at them. They're angry and frustrated, and won't be able to appreciate what we had with TT until he wins a superbowl with Denver next year. Then these same people will be calling for DW's head for cutting him; while we moan about not having a TT capable game manager for the next dozen years.

It will take a dozen years to replace TAYLOR? wow now I've heard everything

In the short haul letting him go will likely make us worse. Why? Because there isn't an obvious alternative. But I don't see Taylor in the SB with Denver or anywhere else. He's not that good. And that's the dilemma. Do you lock in on a guy who has 8-8 tattooed on his forehead? Reading the posts in this thread Mace comes closest to my views on this subject. I respect your opinion but damn 12 years to replace what I see as a borderline starter? That's a big stretch

[Mouldsie]

You do know that Taylor had 22% of the team's rushing yards in 2016, right? He's a big reason why the running game got better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed in his progress. I just don't see any better possibilities being available. We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.
This is all correct. Although we might be able to get Romo.

Also it's well known that the threat of mobile QB's open up more running lanes for the backs. RB's average better numbers when they share a backfield with a QB who can run.

[bdutton]

This is all correct. Although we might be able to get Romo.

Also it's well known that the threat of mobile QB's open up more running lanes for the backs. RB's average better numbers when they share a backfield with a QB who can run.
Romo is 36 and injury prone. He'll last 2-3 years at best and even then, you will probably only see him under center in 1/2 of the games.

Garapolo is another young QB possibility but its also unknown if he can thrive outside of the Patriots system. Cassel couldn't do it in KC.

None of that matters though if the defense doesn't improve. I still say we'd be in the playoffs if Schwarz was still the DC.

[Mouldsie]

Romo is 36 and injury prone. He'll last 2-3 years at best and even then, you will probably only see him under center in 1/2 of the games.

Garapolo is another young QB possibility but its also unknown if he can thrive outside of the Patriots system. Cassel couldn't do it in KC.

None of that matters though if the defense doesn't improve. I still say we'd be in the playoffs if Schwarz was still the DC.

For sure. We fixed what wasn't broken and it made no sense. That said, without Rex we don't get Tyrod. It would have been a great D and EJ.

[cookie G]

Since 2001, best record when the opponent scores 21 or more (min. 50 games):

Tom Brady: 67-50 (57%)
Peyton Manning: 59-64 (48%)
Aaron Rodgers: 33-37 (47%)
Jake Delhomme: 19-27 (41%)
Tony Romo: 28-41 (41%)

hmmm

so all we need to do it get probably the best QB in NFL history...

and pair him with probably the best coach in NFL history...

sprinkle in a little cheating...

And we can end up winning a little over half of these "shoot outs"

We can match another team TD for TD ....a little over half the time.

hmmm again.

Its so simple.

[swiper]

It's a carefully krafted plan.

[cookie G]

Come on Cookie, if you read my post that you replied to, Roethlisberger was used as a comparison of elusiveness. To restate it, he uses his elusiveness to find receivers to pass to. As I said, Taylor uses his largely to look for a running lane.

But I'm sure you see a lot of games. You see QB's direct receivers and command offenses. You see teams trading leads multiple times in a few minutes. You see QB's pass their way down the field when required. You don't see Tyrod Taylor do this.

That's competing with the big boys.

The fading era of elites though....Rothlisberger, Rodgers, Brees, Brady....well you don't find QB's like that nowadays.

But you see offensive direction and authority from Mariota, Winston, Wentz, Prescott. You see them responding to coverages, making adjustments or audibles at the line, direct receivers. Why do you not see Taylor do this ? Because he can't. He can't run crisp efficient 2 minute or hurry up offense with his arm. This isn't even arguable if you watch the games.

Taylor runs plays, doesn't make mistakes, looks to run with his elusiveness and can't carry the team when needed. If needed, you just see him play his same game, because he has no more levels to it.

You can blame a crap defense if you want, but Taylor's passing performance, and again, he's a QB, speaks for itself.

I watch enough games, even with the current state of the NFL...and I watch enough to know that most QB's don't win these high scoring games with nearly the frequency people believe they do.

If it was true, Drew Brees would be sporting a hand full of jewelry and Phil Rivers would be sporting at least 2 rings by now.

- - - Updated - - -


It's a carefully krafted plan.

The Pats thought of it first..


a day late and a HOF QB short.

[swiper]

Brees and Rivers are bad examples. Their teams have fallen off a cliff over the past two seasons.

Better you talk about Carr.

[X-Era]

I read somewhere today that this contract puts him 17th for cap hit for QBs. I'm not sure I can name 16 better QBs, maybe, but not many more. And almost none of them are available.

So as dumb as the contract is, it's still close to market value. Which is pretty good since we got this season for a discount.Nope. 20th. He's a good value and we likely won't get better play from anyone else we could get in 2017.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2017/cap-hit/quarterback/

Have your cake and eat it too... keep him AND draft someone

[Buffalogic]

Stats can be skewed to support any narrative. Eyeballs are a different story and the verdict is clear, Tyrod is not good enough.

He's basically a faster Trent Edwards. Most of our garbage qb's over the last 20 years wouldn't be throwing as many interceptions either if they had running backs that rushed for 300 yards/game. His best attribute (not turning the ball over) is great if he can throw TD's or beat a winning team or comeback in the fourth quarter. The problem is, he can't.

[Mouldsie]

I went from being a Tyrod hater in many people's eyes to a Tyrod defender in about a 16 week timespan and my opinion on him has never changed. Bills fans are funny.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I went from being a Tyrod hater in many people's eyes to a Tyrod defender in about a 16 week timespan and my opinion on him has never changed. Bills fans are funny.

You'd think it would take less than 2 seasons of starting for a good QB to convince a fan base that they were worth their salt.

[jimmifli]

Nope. 20th. He's a good value and we likely won't get better play from anyone else we could get in 2017.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/2017/cap-hit/quarterback/

Have your cake and eat it too... keep him AND draft someone

That's what I want, 1st or 2nd round plus Tyrod. And sign a someone else too. We got Tyrod in a year where we didn't just settle for him. We signed Cassels as well.

Resign Tyrod, sign a FA (someone else's 3rd stringer or maybe 2nd) and draft a QB early. Then do it again next year too.

[ICRockets]

You'd think it would take less than 2 seasons of starting for a good QB to convince a fan base that they were worth their salt.

You might think that, but smart people certainly don't. They remember things like that time Drew Brees was allowed to hit free agency and Eli Manning's putrid first 2 years in New "York".

[Ingtar33]

It will take a dozen years to replace TAYLOR? wow now I've heard everything

considering it took 20 to replace Kelly with someone in TT's mediocre class? Yeah, I'd say it will take atleast a dozen to replace TT.

[Mr. Pink]

Tyrod was a downgrade from Kyle Orton, ffs.

I've never seen a player who was so overvalued, according to some, in my entire life.

I thought the Flutie infatuation some had was bad, but at least that guy could throw the ball when it was necessary and he took the team to the playoffs.

Tyrod can be replaced by any run of the mill bum and it won't have any difference in the final record.

[jamze132]

Tyrod was a downgrade from Kyle Orton, ffs.

I've never seen a player who was so overvalued, according to some, in my entire life.

I thought the Flutie infatuation some had was bad, but at least that guy could throw the ball when it was necessary and he took the team to the playoffs.

Tyrod can be replaced by any run of the mill bum and it won't have any difference in the final record.
Sorry but EJ isn't winning as many games as Tyrod.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You might think that, but smart people certainly don't. They remember things like that time Drew Brees was allowed to hit free agency and Eli Manning's putrid first 2 years in New "York".

Did either of those guys begin their 1st four years sitting the bench behind a Superbowl winning quarterback? Can you remember if that happened? Because smart people certainly can.

[trapezeus]

if continuity to get to the playoffs is how they justify the coach selection, they can't take the current QB away and have no viable options. if they were looking to start over, then get rid of tyrod and build again. but keeping whaley and saying, "make the playoffs next year", requires TT. Do I think that works? no. I think he isn't clutch. I think there are way too many 3 and outs, and I don't think putting up a ton of yards on the dolphins is enough to say he's anything more than a mid level QB.

my argument is that the organization is truly 10 years away from progress if they can try and sell continuity and then remove a large piece that was responsible for a lot of points. there is no qb in the draft or FA or trade that is going to be ready to take this offense one step further. Cutler isn't it, Romo isn't it, none of the draft class is ready next year. I think you do have to take a qb, but getting TT to play another year or two to keep building the rest of the team and hand over to a better qb 2 years from now makes sense to me.

[Ingtar33]

Tyrod was a downgrade from Kyle Orton, ffs.

I've never seen a player who was so overvalued, according to some, in my entire life.

I thought the Flutie infatuation some had was bad, but at least that guy could throw the ball when it was necessary and he took the team to the playoffs.

Tyrod can be replaced by any run of the mill bum and it won't have any difference in the final record.

you are remembering flutie and orton a bit better then they were. Both QBs benefited by having a top 3 defense for their success. Check out their actual stats from those years. Orton was a significant downgrade from TT, flutie had one year superior and 2 inferior to TT, and on the whole was (on average) an inferior QB

[Turf]

Keep Taylor, draft a QB, release EJ, fix the coach and defense, and new OC for that matter.

[bdutton]

if continuity to get to the playoffs is how they justify the coach selection, they can't take the current QB away and have no viable options. if they were looking to start over, then get rid of tyrod and build again. but keeping whaley and saying, "make the playoffs next year", requires TT. Do I think that works? no. I think he isn't clutch. I think there are way too many 3 and outs, and I don't think putting up a ton of yards on the dolphins is enough to say he's anything more than a mid level QB.

my argument is that the organization is truly 10 years away from progress if they can try and sell continuity and then remove a large piece that was responsible for a lot of points. there is no qb in the draft or FA or trade that is going to be ready to take this offense one step further. Cutler isn't it, Romo isn't it, none of the draft class is ready next year. I think you do have to take a qb, but getting TT to play another year or two to keep building the rest of the team and hand over to a better qb 2 years from now makes sense to me.
I recall that Buffalo promoted Kay Stephenson from QB coach to HC and basically burned down the entire organization which lead to building them back up to the greatness of the late 80's and 90's. Maybe they do plan on repeating this by getting rid of TT, promoting a clueless Anthony Lynn and spending high draft picks on a QB over the next two years?

ETA:

I really hope they don't do that though. I think Tyrod is a decent enough QB and with the right DC we can make the playoffs next year, grab a QB this year or next and groom them to be the TT replacement.

[swiper]

Learn from past mistakes.

[feldspar]

Learn from past mistakes.

Because it should be easy to be among the top 32 teams who are trying to do the same thing as you...

I'm convinced that dumb luck plays as big of a part as anything.

This is what we should learn...

[ICRockets]

Did either of those guys begin their 1st four years sitting the bench behind a Superbowl winning quarterback? Can you remember if that happened? Because smart people certainly can.
Eli started his first half year benched behind one, but it's cute that you think as soon as your argument looks dumb that you can just tailor it to be ever more specific. How many QBs have sat for 4 years behind a Super Bowl winner? Do you have a list of them that we can compare Tyrod to?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Eli started his first half year benched behind one, but it's cute that you think as soon as your argument looks dumb that you can just tailor it to be ever more specific. How many QBs have sat for 4 years behind a Super Bowl winner? Do you have a list of them that we can compare Tyrod to?

Maybe we should evaluate every situation individually and not compare it to 2 people who have nothing to do with the situation? What a ****ing novel idea.

You bring up 2 QB's who got better after 2 years like there's not 100 others who didn't.

[ICRockets]

Maybe we should evaluate every situation individually

Then maybe "we" shouldn't speak in generalities, dumbass.


You'd think it would take less than 2 seasons of starting for a good QB to convince a fan base that they were worth their salt.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Then maybe "we" shouldn't speak in generalities, dumbass.

You're too ugly to be this stupid.

[ICRockets]

You're too ugly to be this stupid.

Good argument, very substantive.

[DynaPaul]

If I'm McDermott I'm telling Whaley that I want Tyrod back stat. You can't win with EJ and Cardale.

[X-Era]

You do know that Taylor had 22% of the team's rushing yards in 2016, right? He's a big reason why the running game got better.

Don't get me wrong, I'm disappointed in his progress. I just don't see any better possibilities being available. We are basically going to have to either try to win with Tyrod or go full on rebuild because we aren't going to find someone equal or better.The earth has tilted on it's axis and the poles have reversed...

Never thought I'd clap for an OP post but:

:clap:

You nailed it. That's exactly how I feel in a nutshell.