Does the HC get a say in personnel?

[OpIv37]

So, it's no big secret to anyone here that rumors broke late last week that the Bills were moving on from Tyrod.

Here's the problem: the HC didn't have any input into that decision because, well, we didn't have one. So, how much say should the HC have in personnel decisions?

I'll say this: I'm not the egotistical type that's going to get pissed off if the higher-ups don't take my advice every time, but I was hired because I have a specific skill set and I get frustrated if managers with more generalized skill sets make decisions without asking my input. And my skill set isn't nearly as unique or valuable as an NFL level coach.

Maybe it makes no difference, I don't know. But I just don't see how the FO making personnel decisions without input from a HC could be good for attracting coaching candidates or the relationship between the FO and the new coach.

[Skooby]

Tyrod is not going to be in Buffalo next season unless he somehow convinces our doctors he can't pass a physical. After seeing our draft picks come in crippled, I think it's safe to say everyone passes their physical in Buffalo.

[Ed]

We've heard that the Bills are moving on, but we've also been told that the new HC would have a say when it comes to Tyrod. Who knows what to believe right now, but I would have to imagine that Tyrod and the QB position in general were significant topics of discussion during the interviews. I doubt McDermott would take the job if he wasn't comfortable with any decisions that have already been made. They have two months to decide on Tyrod, so it doesn't really make sense for them to have already made a decision without a coaching staff in place. Maybe they're leaning towards moving on from Tyrod, but I wouldn't be surprised if a definitive decision hasn't been made yet.

[OpIv37]

Tyrod is not going to be in Buffalo next season unless he somehow convinces our doctors he can't pass a physical. After seeing our draft picks come in crippled, I think it's safe to say everyone passes their physical in Buffalo.

Ok, then. Break it down. Ditch as many big contracts as possible, don't bring back Eric Woods, Kyle or anyone else too old to be useful in 2-3 years. Trade guys for picks.

We aren't going to find a QB any more capable of winning now than Tyrod is, so time to rebuild.

[Mace]

So, it's no big secret to anyone here that rumors broke late last week that the Bills were moving on from Tyrod.

Here's the problem: the HC didn't have any input into that decision because, well, we didn't have one. So, how much say should the HC have in personnel decisions?

I'll say this: I'm not the egotistical type that's going to get pissed off if the higher-ups don't take my advice every time, but I was hired because I have a specific skill set and I get frustrated if managers with more generalized skill sets make decisions without asking my input. And my skill set isn't nearly as unique or valuable as an NFL level coach.

Maybe it makes no difference, I don't know. But I just don't see how the FO making personnel decisions without input from a HC could be good for attracting coaching candidates or the relationship between the FO and the new coach.

I'd guess if he hires an OC with chops, there will be some discussion.......and I'd guess Taylor came up in the interviews and was discussed.

I'm also purely guessing if McDermott had strong feelings about it and wasn't asked, he wouldn't have come here.

[OpIv37]

We've heard that the Bills are moving on, but we've also been told that the new HC would have a say when it comes to Tyrod. Who knows what to believe right now, but I would have to imagine that Tyrod and the QB position in general were significant topics of discussion during the interviews. I doubt McDermott would take the job if he wasn't comfortable with any decisions that have already been made. They have two months to decide on Tyrod, so it doesn't really make sense for them to have already made a decision without a coaching staff in place. Maybe they're leaning towards moving on from Tyrod, but I wouldn't be surprised if a definitive decision hasn't been made yet.

So then how did it get out there? Why were they even talking about it knowing that someone integral to the decision hadn't been hired yet?

I challenge someone to answer that without using the following words: incompetent, train wreck, dysfunctional, dumpster fire.

[Mace]

So then how did it get out there? Why were they even talking about it knowing that someone integral to the decision hadn't been hired yet?

I challenge someone to answer that without using the following words: incompetent, train wreck, dysfunctional, dumpster fire.

Incorrect media analysis. Taylor really may have been benched so he wouldn't be injured and the new HC would have the option of choosing.

[Ed]

So then how did it get out there? Why were they even talking about it knowing that someone integral to the decision hadn't been hired yet?

I challenge someone to answer that without using the following words: incompetent, train wreck, dysfunctional, dumpster fire.
I have no idea. I've heard that the HC will make the decision on Tyrod and I've heard that they've already decided to move on from him. Which is true? It just seems like we've been getting a lot of speculation and questionable reporting about the issue ever since they sat Tyrod for the last game. My guess is that Whaley's preference is to move on from Tyrod, but maybe it's not entirely up to him, which is leading to conflicting reports. I certainly have no idea what to believe. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

[BillsImpossible]

I don't think the Pegula's, Doug Whaley or Coach McDermott have any interest in paying Tyrod Taylor $27.5 million next year.

[Mace]

Watching the facebook live with Tim Graham, Tyler Dunne, Jerry Sullivan from this afternoon. Sullivan points out the leaks from the football dept indicated Lynn was a lock and he wasn't, so it's no reach to wonder if the Taylor information wasn't bad either. Graham said he's hearing McDermott did indeed want more roster control and it's unlikely he wouldn't have some say in the choice. They also speculate the leaks were Whaley related.

[BillsImpossible]

I don't think the Pegula's would have hired McDermott if he thought Tyrod Taylor was the answer at QB.

The Pegula's like Doug Whaley a lot, and gave him a contract extension.

Doug Whaley has no choice but to make a deal with McDermott over player personnel.

[BillsImpossible]

Incorrect media analysis. Taylor really may have been benched so he wouldn't be injured and the new HC would have the option of choosing.

Sorry, Mace, but that's not accurate.

IF the Pegula's were all in on Taylor, they would have wanted him to start the last game against the Jets to build a, "winning culture," and finish 8-8.

That didn't happen.

Keep in mind the fact that the Pegula's have not once publicly said they think Taylor is their money ticket.

If they thought Tyrod Taylor was money, they would have said so by now.

[OpIv37]

I don't think the Pegula's, Doug Whaley or Coach McDermott have any interest in paying Tyrod Taylor $27.5 million next year.

Well if Whaley didn't intend on paying it, he never should have given him that **** contract in the first place.

But more importantly, who are they going to pay that's equal or better?

[Mace]

If they thought Tyrod Taylor was money, they would have said so by now.

No no, the point wasn't they thought Taylor was money, the point was that they wanted to leave the option to the next coach (without forcing it on him via injury).

The media will tend to follow a linear line of thought. Taylor sits, not in plans.

The thing is, Taylor has said renegotiation is not off the table.

I'm leaning toward it's HC/OC's call.

[BillsImpossible]

Well if Whaley didn't intend on paying it, he never should have given him that **** contract in the first place.

But more importantly, who are they going to pay that's equal or better?

I agree, Whaley didn't have to give Tryod Taylor that kind of contract. He should have sat on the original contract.

Who are they going to pay that is equal or better?

Cardale Jones.

[feldspar]

I don't think anyone knows anything at this point...don't believe any speculation...

[psubills62]

It is interesting following college football vs. NFL. In college, the coaches set the scheme and they pick the players who fit them. In the NFL, there's consistently differences of opinion between the GM and the coaches. Drafting isn't the same as recruiting, but I'd like to think the best systems are where the coaches work strongly together with the GM and there's an understanding of who the coaches feel they want and need.

Kind of a weird scenario looking at it because the coach is the one who has to play the kids. If the GM has total control, then it puts the coach in a difficult situation. I'd like to think the coach has a good amount of say, but that often doesn't seem to be the case.

[Ed]

Sorry, Mace, but that's not accurate.

IF the Pegula's were all in on Taylor, they would have wanted him to start the last game against the Jets to build a, "winning culture," and finish 8-8.

That didn't happen.

Keep in mind the fact that the Pegula's have not once publicly said they think Taylor is their money ticket.

If they thought Tyrod Taylor was money, they would have said so by now.
I don't really agree with this either. If you're all in on Taylor it still doesn't make any sense to play him the final week in a meaningless game. If he blows out his knee or something similar on January 1st he has the least amount of time to rehab and recover. He'd miss all of OTAs, all of training camp, and very likely not be ready for the start of the season. They already knew Rex wasn't going to be here next season and would have to go through another HC hiring process. If Tyrod suffers a serious injury and misses the entire offseason and maybe some of the regular season, the HC position suddenly becomes a much tougher sell. There's no way they risk all that just to go 8-8 and still miss the playoffs just to try and sell a fake "winning culture". I think the Pegulas are smart enough to know that finishing 8-8, missing the playoffs, and firing your coach does not equal a winning culture.

I definitely don't think the Bills are all in on Tyrod, but it never made sense that sitting him for a meaningless game in week 17 automatically meant that they were done with him. But for some reason everyone just ran with that as fact and never considered the idea that sitting Tyrod for a meaningless game is the only move that made any real sense regardless of how they feel about him.

[YardRat]

Why does anybody automatically lend credibility to anything a talking head says? Sure it's fun to follow these guys, report their comments and discuss them, but the reality is most of the time they probably don't have any more 'inside' information than the next Joe and their words shouldn't be taken as gospel. It's far more logical that a discussion regarding Tyrod will continue once the new staff is in place and a decision will be made with them involved than to believe a reporter that states the team is 'obviously' moving on from Taylor before a staff is even in place.

[Buddo]

Tbh, I'm not so sure what the big deal is with all of this, other than Taylor not progressing as quickly as we would have liked, or not really showing anything else than what he showed last year (2015).

As he hit his escalators in year one, he could be walking now. The Bills needed to do something to protect themselves. The new contract, was it. They can either pay him, or let him walk, and it doesn't cost us anything.

Can you imagine the furore if they hadn't done anything, and he was a UFA as of now?

Ultimately, the contract also isn't beyond the pale, for what a middling NFL starting QB will get. Now there's a different set of arguments about what Taylor is, but I don't think that that is entirely relevant.

Unfortunately, 'sitting' a guy, tends to fall into the area where people can't see the shades of grey. It's either being a 'very naughty boy' (Washington perhaps), or 'he's outta town'. After seeing two starting QBs go down the week before, and a truly meaningless game on the horizon, it made sense to keep Taylor out of the last game, for a plethora of reasons, some of which might not have been entirely 'football related', but had validity.

As things stand, the new HC will undoubtedly have a decision to make about Taylor, but to be realistic, that had to always be the case. Thankfully, that decision, should be predicated on his play, rather than on the injury clause. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear some sort of announcement in the near future, about what they will be doing with Taylor, once our new HC has established his coaching staff - especially his OC.

If Taylor stays, there might be some sort of re-structure on the horizon, but it won't be for less money, imho. It might be done to ease the cap constraints, as I think Taylor is that sort of guy, but I don't think he's taking any less.

[OpIv37]

Tbh, I'm not so sure what the big deal is with all of this, other than Taylor not progressing as quickly as we would have liked, or not really showing anything else than what he showed last year (2015).

As he hit his escalators in year one, he could be walking now. The Bills needed to do something to protect themselves. The new contract, was it. They can either pay him, or let him walk, and it doesn't cost us anything.

Can you imagine the furore if they hadn't done anything, and he was a UFA as of now?

Ultimately, the contract also isn't beyond the pale, for what a middling NFL starting QB will get. Now there's a different set of arguments about what Taylor is, but I don't think that that is entirely relevant.

Unfortunately, 'sitting' a guy, tends to fall into the area where people can't see the shades of grey. It's either being a 'very naughty boy' (Washington perhaps), or 'he's outta town'. After seeing two starting QBs go down the week before, and a truly meaningless game on the horizon, it made sense to keep Taylor out of the last game, for a plethora of reasons, some of which might not have been entirely 'football related', but had validity.

As things stand, the new HC will undoubtedly have a decision to make about Taylor, but to be realistic, that had to always be the case. Thankfully, that decision, should be predicated on his play, rather than on the injury clause. I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear some sort of announcement in the near future, about what they will be doing with Taylor, once our new HC has established his coaching staff - especially his OC.

If Taylor stays, there might be some sort of re-structure on the horizon, but it won't be for less money, imho. It might be done to ease the cap constraints, as I think Taylor is that sort of guy, but I don't think he's taking any less.

The thing is that there's a third option for the team protecting themselves: waiting out his original contract and paying him commensurate with his performance. Based on how 2016 went, we could have kept him for peanuts.

Instead, the team put themselves in a position where they have to either overpay him or start over with extremely limited options available. I fail to see how that's "protecting themselves".

[Buddo]

The thing is that there's a third option for the team protecting themselves: waiting out his original contract and paying him commensurate with his performance. Based on how 2016 went, we could have kept him for peanuts.

Instead, the team put themselves in a position where they have to either overpay him or start over with extremely limited options available. I fail to see how that's "protecting themselves".

I think you are making something of a large assumption about keeping him for 'peanuts'. We might have been able to keep him for less, but it wouldn't be a done deal, and you only have to look at what happened with Osweiler, to see that someone would be bidding against us.

I don't think your 3rd option was honestly that viable. As to whether or not the contract's terms and language that was signed, was done well enough, that's a separate issue in some respects. For me, the bottom line is that our new HC shouldn't be forced to keep him, it's a decision that he can make, and rightly so.

Tbh, I think he's going to be kept, simply because you can win with him. If the Ryans hadn't made such a pig's ear of the D, through their pig-headedness, we might have snuck into the playoffs this year. Similar Offense, and improved Defense, with Taylor, could well get us in next. As pointed out in plenty of places, including, ironically, the Economist, his contract isn't exactly out of order for a mediocre starting QB in the NFL. In the meantime, we can keep developing Jones, and looking at other prospects, while still fielding a competitive team.