the 4 qbs left

[djjimkelly]

all 4 qbs, the gangster aaron rodgers, matt ryan , big ben , and marsha brady. all make tyrod look like a joke.

tyrod twice or 3 times better then he is still is not half of any of these guys i listed.

so whether the bills keep tyrod(id cut him today) everyone truly needs to ask themselves.

does tyrod have the ability to play at any of these guys level? NO


if he studied 30 hours a day and practiced another 30 hours a day.

tyrod will never deserve to bring these guys their water let alone be one of the 32 qbs in this league

[justasportsfan]

does tyrod have the ability to play at any of these guys level? NO




These guys are elite passers. Tyrod is not even close. Problem is, where will you find elite passers like the guys you mentioned in the mean time? Tyrod is a very good caretaker who can run the ball. We may have to SETTLE with such a qb while we look for or groom an elite passer. Problem is, I wouldn't pay him 15 million per year .

[djjimkelly]

ill say that settling for average qbs have hindered our getting one for real.

[Albany,n.y.]

These guys are elite passers. Tyrod is not even close. Problem is, where will you find elite passers like the guys you mentioned in the mean time? Tyrod is a very good caretaker who can run the ball. We may have to SETTLE with such a qb while we look for or groom an elite passer. Problem is, I wouldn't pay him 15 million per year .

Yes, the salary makes Tyrod an impossible option. The problem with settling for a mediocrity is they'll win too many games to get a no-brainer pick to replace them, and with the Bills QB scouting history, they need the no-brainer pick, and they lose too many games to be a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Could a Taylor get a team to the playoffs? Yes, with the right D, but a quick playoff exit is a virtual guarantee with Tyrod at QB if he ever got in.

Just look at yesterdays Dallas/Green Bay game. At the end, both QBs would not be denied. One would drive for a score & the other would too. These guys were marching down the field with literally seconds on the game clock putting their team in a position to win. Now look at Tyrod Taylor. With the exception of one 4th quarter drive against a bad Tennessee team in 2015, the guy cannot bring a team back. His supporters will point to the Miami game this December to refute that, but even that game confirms his lack of ability. Yes, he brought the team back once, but unlike the ability we saw in both Prescott, a rookie, and future HOFer Rodgers, he still couldn't keep it up after bringing the team back once. These 2 did it every time late in the game. (and they also have much better kickers than Carpenter, but that's another matter). After Miami tied the game & sent it into overtime, Tyrod couldn't get the job done with the game on the line. Yes, you can blame Carpenter for missing the OT field goal, but the bottom line is that the play before that field goal attempt, Tyrod failed with an incomplete pass. Also, before the Bills final punt, Tyrod also failed with an incomplete pass. He's just not good enough, especially at his salary.

The biggest problem isn't his salary for 2017, it's the bonus $ and the dead cap space it would create WHEN he's replaced. Tyrod is a guy a team will always be looking to improve upon. They can't tie themselves to him on a long term contract, since eventually he'll create too much dead cap space.

[cookie G]

Rodgers showed again why he's one of a kind;
Ryan picked apart one of the best pass D's in the game, and looked like he was having fun doing it;
Brady was Brady...he overcame a slow start and some mistakes against the best D in the league and eventually wore them down/figured them out;

But Big Ben...well, again, a damn good QB

But the Steelers won last night despite him and not because of him. Damn..its a playoff game and he didn't engineer a single TD drive, while going 0 for the game in the redzone.

I heard Collinsworth talk about the win last night and made the comment "Its all about the QB". I thought, if THAT isn't a slap in the face to Leveon Bell and the Steelers defense...

Because it was really all about them last night.

[justasportsfan]

ill say that settling for average qbs have hindered our getting one for real.

How many of the qbs you mentioned are available out there? Romo. I'll take him if he wants to come to buffalo. Draft, I'm all for it. He would still have to be groomed even at 10.

[WagonCircler]

How many of the qbs you mentioned are available out there? Romo. I'll take him if he wants to come to buffalo. Draft, I'm all for it. He would still have to be groomed even at 10.

It's not even so much the particular QBs, but you can at least help yourself by drafting smart, accurate pocket passers.

But that's not what Doug Whaley does. And we won't win until he's gone.

[Bill Cody]

I was thinking about this issue after the games yesterday. Arguably the 4 best QB's in the league are still standing. Finding an elite QB is the Holy Grail but half this board thinks Taylor is either worth keeping on his own merits or worth keeping because he's the best option. That line of thinking only makes sense if winning a championship isn't the goal. Because the 3 guys on our roster now will never ever be good enough. I don't have a solution.

[swiper]

But the Steelers won last night despite him and not because of him. Damn..its a playoff game and he didn't engineer a single TD drive, while going 0 for the game in the redzone.

I heard Collinsworth talk about the win last night and made the comment "Its all about the QB". I thought, if THAT isn't a slap in the face to Leveon Bell and the Steelers defense...


I don't care for Mike Tomlin. In fact, I'm a wanna be hater. But to be honest, he's done well there. And your post underscores the fact that he's held the ship together with or without Roethlisberger there and done a fairly competent job overall.

[swiper]

It's not even so much the particular QBs, but you can at least help yourself by drafting smart, accurate pocket passers.

But that's not what Doug Whaley does. And we won't win until he's gone.

Some or all of those guy's teams got the QB and built the team around him. The Bills keep trying to build a team and use whoever they can get to play QB.

[YardRat]

Those four are in a class by themselves right now, and even if you only count through the number of QB's that have been drafted and 'failed' to achieve that status since Brady came into the league it should be glaringly apparent how difficult it is to snag one.

You gotta try, though, and keep on trying until you hit on one, but you can only try so much. You can't draft seven QBs every year or sign every free agent available until you hit on one, you have to take your shots selectively and hope like hell you end up being 'right' even though the odds are almost insurmountable against you.

The guys that drafted Rodgers, Ryan, Ben and Brady aren't necessarily smarter or better than everybody else, they are simply 'luckier'.

[swiper]

This says it all about the importance of a QB:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/16/brady-ben-peyton-are-14-of-the-last-16-afc-super-bowl-quarterbacks/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/16/brady-ben-peyton-are-14-of-the-last-16-afc-super-bowl-quarterbacks/)


For the 14th time in the last 16 years, the AFC Super Bowl team will be quarterbacked by Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger or Peyton Manning.

Here’s a list of the starting AFC quarterbacks in the Super Bowl for every season in the 21st Century:

2001: Tom Brady, Patriots

2002: Rich Gannon, Raiders

2003: Tom Brady, Patriots

2004: Tom Brady, Patriots

2005: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers

2006: Peyton Manning, Colts

2007: Tom Brady, Patriots

2008: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers

2009: Peyton Manning, Colts

2010: Ben Roethlisberger, Steelers

2011: Tom Brady, Patriots

2012: Joe Flacco, Ravens

2013: Peyton Manning, Broncos

2014: Tom Brady, Patriots

2015: Peyton Manning, Broncos

2016: Brady or Roethlisberger

[Novacane]

The guys that drafted Rodgers, Ryan, Ben and Brady aren't necessarily smarter or better than everybody else, they are simply 'luckier'.


Agree and disagree. It takes luck for sure but we've had our shots at franchise QB's and our stupid management has screwed the pooch. Everyone knows NE was just lucky with Brady. I don't blame the Bills for not taking him. Atlanta's luck was that they sucked bad enough to get a top 3 pick.

The guys that drafted Ben R and Rogers were just lucky that Tom Donahoe was a dumb moron. We needed a QB and instead of moving up 2 spots for Ben R he takes a WR. He then compounds that stupidity and blows the next years first that could of been Rogers on JP. You can say at least he tried with JP but why not give up only a 2nd and move up for the QB in that draft that everyone agreed was a better prospect than JP? Oh that's right. Then we wouldn't have gotten that fast undersized WR with no QB to throw to! Stupid fans don't know anything!

We should of had Russell Wilson but nooooooooo. When we traded up I was sure it was for Wilson! What does dumb Buddy do? Draft another tiny WR that's not even in the league anymore. Why would we take a QB when we have Ryan Fitzpatrick? Stupid fans don't know sheeot! I agree it takes luck but it also takes competent people drafting which we haven't had! Teams that don't have a franchise QB should be drafting a QB at least every other draft.

[WagonCircler]

The guys that drafted Rodgers, Ryan, Ben and Brady aren't necessarily smarter or better than everybody else, they are simply 'luckier'.

Doug Whaley wouldn't have drafted ANY of those QBs.

ESPECIALLY Aaron Rodgers. It was a brilliant, patient choice by a GM who already had Iron Man Brett Favre on the roster. Clearly, Brady was the smartest draft choice ever.

I know you think he's a better GM than Polian was, but that's just the insanity talking.

[YardRat]

Yeah, I agree our GM's have bitten themselves in the ass with some of their questionable moves (especially Donahoe...he ****ed us more than once). To me giving up a first-rounder in a trade for Johnson...or Bledsoe...or Losman...is far more egregious than whiffing on EJ.

[YardRat]

LOL at 'being smart' used as the rationalization for drafting Brady. Obviously 31 other GM's are 'stupid' for passing on him as many as 6 times.

[OpIv37]

Some or all of those guy's teams got the QB and built the team around him. The Bills keep trying to build a team and use whoever they can get to play QB.

Here's the problem: how do you get the QB? There are a lot of reasons why the Bills have struggled for 17 years, but I think it's no big secret that the biggest reason is lack of ability to find a QB.

At any given moment, there are only maybe 10 QB's in the league good enough to build a team around, and most of the teams that have them got lucky. No one thought much of NE taking Brady in the 6th. Indy had Manning go down the year Luck was available.

And lots of teams are looking for QB's. Miami hasn't had one since Marino. The Browns- don't get me started. The Jets, hell, even the Broncos got a few good years out of Peyton but other than that, they've struggled since Elway.

[swiper]

Here's the problem: how do you get the QB? There are a lot of reasons why the Bills have struggled for 17 years, but I think it's no big secret that the biggest reason is lack of ability to find a QB.

At any given moment, there are only maybe 10 QB's in the league good enough to build a team around, and most of the teams that have them got lucky. No one thought much of NE taking Brady in the 6th. Indy had Manning go down the year Luck was available.

And lots of teams are looking for QB's. Miami hasn't had one since Marino. The Browns- don't get me started. The Jets, hell, even the Broncos got a few good years out of Peyton but other than that, they've struggled since Elway.

While I'm still not a real fan of his, the Ravens did it getting Flacco.

[Novacane]

The luck factor is why you keep trying. It's pretty clear after watching a QB for a couple years if he's got a chance to be elite. Draft at least one every other year even if you have a guy who's "decent". Increase your chances of getting lucky.

[DynaPaul]

It would have been nice to have drafted Rodgers in 2005 but we gave our 1st round pick to Dallas the year before to trade up for, wait for it...

JP Losman.

[djjimkelly]

How many of the qbs you mentioned are available out there? Romo. I'll take him if he wants to come to buffalo. Draft, I'm all for it. He would still have to be groomed even at 10.

look its great saying this in hindsight. but by using bandages like bledsoe didnt let us bottom out to get the guy. i kknow rodgers was 22nd i believe but ryan was 1 brady is brady and big ben came out in a year where rivers and manning are both legit.

we must bottom out or trade away an entire draft for the guy.

this is NOT the year to do it. these qbs are so so

but i wouldnt be against trading multiple 1's next year to get the top pick to get a qb.

until we draft ome that works the qbs we have will suck

[YardRat]

we must bottom out or trade away an entire draft for the guy.
this is NOT the year to do it. these qbs are so so
but i wouldnt be against trading multiple 1's next year to get the top pick to get a qb.
until we draft ome that works the qbs we have will suck

"And THEN Whaley TRIPLED DOWN on EJ and Watkins by trading MORE #1's for this DUMBASS and HE SUCKS TOO!!!"

[Strongman]

all 4 qbs, the gangster aaron rodgers, matt ryan , big ben , and marsha brady. all make tyrod look like a joke.

tyrod twice or 3 times better then he is still is not half of any of these guys i listed.

so whether the bills keep tyrod(id cut him today) everyone truly needs to ask themselves.

does tyrod have the ability to play at any of these guys level? NO


if he studied 30 hours a day and practiced another 30 hours a day.

tyrod will never deserve to bring these guys their water let alone be one of the 32 qbs in this league

What's kind of amazing is, at the time, Bill Polian had very high draft grades on 75% of these QBs:

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/18/bill-polian-hall-of-fame-buffalo-bills-carolina-panthers-indianapolis-colts

SI: Let's say in that 1998 draft, you had the third overall pick. Peyton Manning is gone, and Ryan Leaf is gone. You still have to get a young quarterback in pretty short order. Who were some of the draftable quarterbacks in the first decade of the new millennium who you looked at and thought, “Yeah—we could have done some amazing things with this guy.”

BP: Well, Roethlisberger later on [in 2004]—we were really high on him. Aaron Rodgers the year after. That's the only name that comes to mind right away. And I don't think there was a guy in between, but Tom Brady would have been a guy, and we were very high on him. Our guys really loved him, but we weren't in the quarterback market, obviously. Those would be the guys I remember us giving solid, first-round, can-lead-you-to-a-championship grades.

[YardRat]

Polian also had a very high draft grade on Ryan Leaf, it isn't like his perception between the two was a huge chasm as large as their career paths ended up being, or that Manning was a no-brainer pick.

He discusses the situation in his book, and details some of the negatives that were attached to Manning coming out (not the strongest arm...un-athletic...can't win the big one) and lays out the basics on what tipped the scales for him in Manning's favor (IIRC it was the accuracy of one throw on film that impressed him, being able to work Manning out under his terms not the college's, and Leaf showing up for his workout in baggy sweats hiding his out-of-shape physique).

[Strongman]

Polian also had a very high draft grade on Ryan Leaf, it isn't like his perception between the two was a huge chasm as large as their career paths ended up being, or that Manning was a no-brainer pick.

He discusses the situation in his book, and details some of the negatives that were attached to Manning coming out (not the strongest arm...un-athletic...can't win the big one) and lays out the basics on what tipped the scales for him in Manning's favor (IIRC it was the accuracy of one throw on film that impressed him, being able to work Manning out under his terms not the college's, and Leaf showing up for his workout in baggy sweats hiding his out-of-shape physique).

I read his book. What sold him on Manning was the workout and the interview where Manning came prepared with questions. I think part of his greatness is he trusts his and his scouts more than the consensus opinion. Like when he didn't draft Ricky Williams and went with Edgerrin James instead. Heads exploded over that, but he was right.

[djjimkelly]

"And THEN Whaley TRIPLED DOWN on EJ and Watkins by trading MORE #1's for this DUMBASS and HE SUCKS TOO!!!"

look i wouldnt have drafted either guy. and especially never 2 1sts for a non qb,

[WagonCircler]

I read his book. What sold him on Manning was the workout and the interview where Manning came prepared with questions. I think part of his greatness is he trusts his and his scouts more than the consensus opinion. Like when he didn't draft Ricky Williams and went with Edgerrin James instead. Heads exploded over that, but he was right.

Yardie would rather live in the fictional world and criticize Polian for what he might have done, rather than the real world, and what actually happened.

That explains his raging hard-on for Whaley. In Yardie's dreams, Whaley isn't useless, like he his in the real world.

[YardRat]

Yardie would rather live in the fictional world and criticize Polian for what he might have done, rather than the real world, and what actually happened.

That explains his raging hard-on for Whaley. In Yardie's dreams, Whaley isn't useless, like he his in the real world.

In the real world Polian whiffed on draft picks, even first-rounders, and made questionable personnel moves. Just like every GM that's ever held the job.

[Ingtar33]

you just named the 4 best QBs in the NFL.

Surprise surprise, the 4 best QBs made it to the conference championship games. Listen, in today's pass happy NFL the QB is even more important then he was a decade ago. That said where will we get a Rogers, Brady, Ben or Ryan to replace tyrod? Explain that step? *****ing about Tyrod without a plan to replace him with a BETTER QB gets us no where.

I've never been against replacing tyrod with someone better. However, that's the bit PROBLEM with the situation. We don't even have someone better to replace him with, let alone someone at Rogers, Brady, Ben or Ryan's level. So what's the plan? Because kicking Tyrod out the door just because he's not one of the 4 best QBs in the league only makes the team worse.

but no, people want blood because they're mad. I get it, but screaming like a lunitic for tyrod's head doesn't make this team better. Even his contract is pretty rational money. Keeping him doesn't really hurt anything. Better still we're closer to the playoffs with him then without him. Keep tyrod, keep drafting QBs, jump at QBs who become availible either in trade or FA, and hope for the best.

-That's the rational plan.

Of course if there is one thing we can count on the Bills to do since AJ Smith left, it's not do the "rational" thing.

[BillsFanInNM]

you just named the 4 best QBs in the NFL.

Surprise surprise, the 4 best QBs made it to the conference championship games. Listen, in today's pass happy NFL the QB is even more important then he was a decade ago. That said where will we get a Rogers, Brady, Ben or Ryan to replace tyrod? Explain that step? *****ing about Tyrod without a plan to replace him with a BETTER QB gets us no where.

I've never been against replacing tyrod with someone better. However, that's the bit PROBLEM with the situation. We don't even have someone better to replace him with, let alone someone at Rogers, Brady, Ben or Ryan's level. So what's the plan? Because kicking Tyrod out the door just because he's not one of the 4 best QBs in the league only makes the team worse.

but no, people want blood because they're mad. I get it, but screaming like a lunitic for tyrod's head doesn't make this team better. Even his contract is pretty rational money. Keeping him doesn't really hurt anything. Better still we're closer to the playoffs with him then without him. Keep tyrod, keep drafting QBs, jump at QBs who become availible either in trade or FA, and hope for the best.

-That's the rational plan.

Of course if there is one thing we can count on the Bills to do since AJ Smith left, it's not do the "rational" thing.

sure that's the rational way to play it if you want to squeak into the playoffs and get murdered like the Dolphins, but most fans want a team that has a chance to win a championship & Tyrod is not going to do that without a historically great defense.

[justasportsfan]

look its great saying this in hindsight. but by using bandages like bledsoe didnt let us bottom out to get the guy. i kknow rodgers was 22nd i believe but ryan was 1 brady is brady and big ben came out in a year where rivers and manning are both legit.

we must bottom out or trade away an entire draft for the guy.

this is NOT the year to do it. these qbs are so so

but i wouldnt be against trading multiple 1's next year to get the top pick to get a qb.

until we draft ome that works the qbs we have will suck


I am all for finding a franchise qb. I'm so starved for one that I'd use a few picks to draft a few until we find one like the seahawks did. But in the meantime, what do we do with the upcoming season? Tank for next years qb class by going with Cardale ?

[WagonCircler]

In the real world Polian whiffed on draft picks, even first-rounders, and made questionable personnel moves. Just like every GM that's ever held the job.

True, but far less often. And his successes absolutely dwarf his misfires.

The point is, Whaley has never accomplished ANYTHING. And yet you foolishly equate the two.

I know you're just being a dick, but my God, this is a monumentally stupid argument you're making.

[Bill Cody]

I am all for finding a franchise qb. I'm so starved for one that I'd use a few picks to draft a few until we find one like the seahawks did. But in the meantime, what do we do with the upcoming season? Tank for next years qb class by going with Cardale ?

I could tell you but Peg told me not to, it's top secret

[YardRat]

True, but far less often. And his successes absolutely dwarf his misfires.

The point is, Whaley has never accomplished ANYTHING. And yet you foolishly equate the two.

I know you're just being a dick, but my God, this is a monumentally stupid argument you're making.

I'm not equating the two, I'm pointing out some simple pitfalls of the position that they, and every GM, share. Pitfalls that Polian is excused for because he's had years to overcome them and adjust the balance sheet in his favor, an advantage that Whaley hasn't earned yet (and may never...granted). The difference between the two is Polian has literally decades under his belt to build a resume, and Whaley has three years. Comparing the two's careers, overall is foolish...comparing the two within a sensible context (their first three years) is far more logical.

I don't know how old you are, but I get the impression that either you were too young to remember, possibly not even alive, during the mid-to-late 80's and early 90's. Obviously you don't remember the criticism tossed at the organization in general and Polian specifically for...
---bringing in a 'cheap, unqualified' hire like Marv Levy to head coach.
---making an 'unproven' QB that didn't want to be here anyway the highest paid player in the league.
---trading away the future for a LBer.
---drafting an injured RB.
---using his first-ever first-rounder on a RB (Harmon) when we already had a 1000-yard rusher (Bell) on the team.

Polian wasn't exactly 'all that' his first couple of years as a GM, and he made some of the same mistakes that Whaley has, early on. The difference is the mistakes get overlooked when you start winning.

Does that mean I believe Whaley will have even half of the career accomplishments that Polian can recant if he manages to stay in the profession for decades? Not in the least. But, to roast the guy for making the same mistakes that a future Hall of Famer also made early in his career is a little bit drama queen-ish.

[WagonCircler]

I'm not equating the two, I'm pointing out some simple pitfalls of the position that they, and every GM, share. Pitfalls that Polian is excused for because he's had years to overcome them and adjust the balance sheet in his favor, an advantage that Whaley hasn't earned yet (and may never...granted). The difference between the two is Polian has literally decades under his belt to build a resume, and Whaley has three years. Comparing the two's careers, overall is foolish...comparing the two within a sensible context (their first three years) is far more logical.

I don't know how old you are, but I get the impression that either you were too young to remember, possibly not even alive, during the mid-to-late 80's and early 90's. Obviously you don't remember the criticism tossed at the organization in general and Polian specifically for...
---bringing in a 'cheap, unqualified' hire like Marv Levy to head coach.
---making an 'unproven' QB that didn't want to be here anyway the highest paid player in the league.
---trading away the future for a LBer.
---drafting an injured RB.
---using his first-ever first-rounder on a RB (Harmon) when we already had a 1000-yard rusher (Bell) on the team.

Polian wasn't exactly 'all that' his first couple of years as a GM, and he made some of the same mistakes that Whaley has, early on. The difference is the mistakes get overlooked when you start winning.

Does that mean I believe Whaley will have even half of the career accomplishments that Polian can recant if he manages to stay in the profession for decades? Not in the least. But, to roast the guy for making the same mistakes that a future Hall of Famer also made early in his career is a little bit drama queen-ish.

Not only was I alive, I actually knew most of these people.

And Doug Whaley has not made the same mistakes. He has made stupid, egregious, unforgivable, terminable mistakes, that are not balanced by any accomplishments.

I notice you ignored the fact that Polian, hired in 1986 as GM had the Bills in the AFC Championship game by the 1988 season. This blows up your entire ridiculous argument.

The Bills beat ONE TEAM with a winning record this year. They are an abysmal football team, run by a complete fool.

[Strongman]

Yardie would rather live in the fictional world and criticize Polian for what he might have done, rather than the real world, and what actually happened.

That explains his raging hard-on for Whaley. In Yardie's dreams, Whaley isn't useless, like he his in the real world.

I get what he's saying and there is a reasonable logic behind it. I'm actually reading his stuff not as a defense of Whaley. He's just pointing out comparing Polian and Whaley is just premature at this point. I'm not sure I totally agree with it, but it's a fair point to make.

I happen to think Whaley is a poor GM because the "championship roster" he created lacks depth, his draft choices contribute less than other teams, and he doesn't seem to grasp the value of draft picks. What he gave up to get Watkins was just negligent IMO.

[WagonCircler]

I get what he's saying and there is a reasonable logic behind it. I'm actually reading his stuff not as a defense of Whaley. He's just pointing out comparing Polian and Whaley is just premature at this point. I'm not sure I totally agree with it, but it's a fair point to make.

I happen to think Whaley is a poor GM because the "championship roster" he created lacks depth, his draft choices contribute less than other teams, and he doesn't seem to grasp the value of draft picks. What he gave up to get Watkins was just negligent IMO.

It's a de facto prediction that he might be as good as Polian someday. And it is absolutely absurd. He has shown nothing so far, he has put together a terrible team of dumb, frail underachievers, and he has not only failed to address the QB situation, he failed stubbornly and miserably, putting all his chips on the table betting on a horrendous QB who was obviously doomed to fail, and who did. Whaley hasn't even had anything resembling success. If you want to compare him to a Bills GM, it should be Russ Brandon, not Bill Polian. Whaley has zero chance of becoming a hall of fame GM.

[Strongman]

It's a de facto prediction that he might be as good as Polian someday. And it is absolutely absurd. He has shown nothing so far, he has put together a terrible team of dumb, frail underachievers, and he has not only failed to address the QB situation, he failed stubbornly and miserably, putting all his chips on the table betting on a horrendous QB who was obviously doomed to fail, and who did. Whaley hasn't even had anything resembling success. If you want to compare him to a Bills GM, it should be Russ Brandon, not Bill Polian. Whaley has zero chance of becoming a hall of fame GM.

I definitely don't think Whaley will ever be as good as Polian whose in the upper echelon of GMs. Heck, I have my doubts Whaley should be anything above a head scout in a serious organization. As you or someone wrote above there might be 4 I'd put in Polian's league (Wolf, Walsh, Brandt, and Davis). Anyhow, Whaley is the result of the bigger problem Russ Brandon.

Russ Brandon and his marketing shenanigans are the biggest reason for our crap teams. Past teams were built to give fans just enough hopes to sell tickets and not much more. Seriously, the best thing Pegula could do is get rid of both of them. Until he does, I'm just going to assume Terrance is operating his teams as money making ventures instead of seriously trying to win championships.

[Mouldsie]

Those four are in a class by themselves right now, and even if you only count through the number of QB's that have been drafted and 'failed' to achieve that status since Brady came into the league it should be glaringly apparent how difficult it is to snag one.

You gotta try, though, and keep on trying until you hit on one, but you can only try so much. You can't draft seven QBs every year or sign every free agent available until you hit on one, you have to take your shots selectively and hope like hell you end up being 'right' even though the odds are almost insurmountable against you.

The guys that drafted Rodgers, Ryan, Ben and Brady aren't necessarily smarter or better than everybody else, they are simply 'luckier'.

I firmly believe a good GM can/should be able to identify a franchise QB and then work aggressively to acquire him. Even if that means tanking.

When Tennessee was entertaining offers for the #2 pick/Mariota I would have been ALL IN to acquire him. Trade Dareus, Watkins, your first.... whatever it takes.

The other option is a little less realistic and that is to see a guy like Russel Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, or Drew Brees being ridiculously undervalued and pouncing on it.

Under no circumstance would I "gamble" by trading assets for a longshot prospect like JP Losman.

I too would get the QB then build the team and not vice versa. The Bills to it all backwards.

[Mouldsie]

Following my post above..... what should the Bills do right now?

Romo, Rivers, or tank.

I can see the logic in keeping Tyrod as well b/c he's solid, but it's highly unlikely to result in a Super Bowl win as this roster stands. Denver might be able to get away with him but not us.

[YardRat]

Polian had a HOF QB gifted to him...he didn't draft Kelly. There was no free agency. When the USFL folded, Kelly had limited choices...play in Buffalo, force a trade, or quit football. Polian had limited choices...pay the man, try to get trade value for him, or let him sit. So Polian ponied up the richest contract in the league for a guy that never took an NFL snap...why the hell wouldn't Jimbo sign on the dotted line, for chrissakes?

[k-oneputt]

I want to take a shot on Mahomes in the 2nd rd.

And I wouldn't be against Webb or Kelly later.

[YardRat]

Following my post above..... what should the Bills do right now?
Romo, Rivers, or tank.
I can see the logic in keeping Tyrod as well b/c he's solid, but it's highly unlikely to result in a Super Bowl win as this roster stands. Denver might be able to get away with him but not us.

Just IMO...
Romo wouldn't last six games here before breaking his back again.
Rivers isn't coming to Buffalo.

Even if one of the above are willing to come here, what are you going to give up for him? Another first so we can once again relive the Groundhog Day nightmares of Bledsoe, Johnson and Losman?

If you tanked last season, who are you tanking for? Trubisky? Watson? Kizer?
Who would you tank this season for in the 2018 draft? Is there a 'no-brainer' coming out next year?

Would you have been happy at the time if Whaley snagged Bridgewater or Carr at #8 instead of trading up for Watkins?
Would you have been happy at the time if Whaley traded all of the 2015 picks plus the 2016 first and second to move up to 1 or 2 to get Winston or Mariota?
Yeah, I would have liked to see him grab Prescott in the third this past year but A)how much is Whaley's fault and how much is Wrecks' for having to get players to 'fix' a defense that wasn't ****ing broke when he took over the team and B)would Dak have even had a chance to see the field with a healthy Tyrod Taylor?

[Mouldsie]

Just IMO...
Romo wouldn't last six games here before breaking his back again.
Rivers isn't coming to Buffalo.

Even if one of the above are willing to come here, what are you going to give up for him? Another first so we can once again relive the Groundhog Day nightmares of Bledsoe, Johnson and Losman?

If you tanked last season, who are you tanking for? Trubisky? Watson? Kizer?
Who would you tank this season for in the 2018 draft? Is there a 'no-brainer' coming out next year?

Would you have been happy at the time if Whaley snagged Bridgewater or Carr at #8 instead of trading up for Watkins?
Would you have been happy at the time if Whaley traded all of the 2015 picks plus the 2016 first and second to move up to 1 or 2 to get Winston or Mariota?
Yeah, I would have liked to see him grab Prescott in the third this past year but A)how much is Whaley's fault and how much is Wrecks' for having to get players to 'fix' a defense that wasn't ****ing broke when he took over the team and B)would Dak have even had a chance to see the field with a healthy Tyrod Taylor?

You might be right about Romo and Rivers. Compensation can be debated.

None, this QB class is and always was weaksauce. I'd avoid it and didn't want to tank this season because it wasn't worth it. If Kizer is at 10 maybe I look there but he wont be.

Next year? You're going for Sam Darnold (USC QB who took over after they started slow and their big time recruit couldn't hack it -so his storyline has a little bit of Brady to it- but he's a productive competitor with size and arm talent who I look forward to studying more) or Josh Rosen (UCLA who is more hype/potential right now but flashed the right stuff as a Freshman before getting pounded by an all time awful OL last year. This season he might light the NCAA on fire if they can protect him... he's very confident and intelligent and Rodgers-like in his personality but not that level of arm).... I would not say either of these guys is Marcus Mariota or Andrew Luck yet, but odds are at least one will emerge as someone close to that caliber.

No, they both seemed like decent prospects and better than EJ but was not ultra high on either one that I would have celebrated them at 8.

Mariota yes, Winston no.

Loved Dak compared to others, had him #3 in my rankings. You're right that we drafted based on Rex's desires and it was bull****. Did the same thing the year before. Watkins was supposedly Brandon. IDK what decisions Doug has made but he seemed to have a big say in EJ sadly.

[Mouldsie]

Darnold is like a bigger and stronger armed Ryan Fitzpatrick when you watch him

[YardRat]

I like what I've seen from Darnold so far also, but admittedly I only watched a couple of SC games this season and none from beginning to end. I'd be surprised if he came out for the '18 draft though.

[WagonCircler]

Watkins was supposedly Brandon..

You've mentioned this nonsense before. First of all, if it's true (and the odds of that are about a billion to one) then this organization will never win, EVER, until Brandon is gone, and if he has that kind of power, he will never be gone.

Secondly, if Whaley allowed that to happen and didn't resign, then he's an even bigger weasel than I thought he was. And it further begs the question "Just what the **** DO you do around here?" He disavows responsibility for every failed draft pick and ever failed coaching hire. He's allegedly taken by surprise by the Head Coach's termination. The kid who fetches the kicking tee from the field seems to have more responsibility than Whaley.

[Mouldsie]

You've mentioned this nonsense before. First of all, if it's true (and the odds of that are about a billion to one) then this organization will never win, EVER, until Brandon is gone, and if he has that kind of power, he will never be gone.

Secondly, if Whaley allowed that to happen and didn't resign, then he's an even bigger weasel than I thought he was. And it further begs the question "Just what the **** DO you do around here?" He disavows responsibility for every failed draft pick and ever failed coaching hire. He's allegedly taken by surprise by the Head Coach's termination. The kid who fetches the kicking tee from the field seems to have more responsibility than Whaley.

Remember, he was trying to sell the team at the time... He was the owner basically.

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I like what I've seen from Darnold so far also, but admittedly I only watched a couple of SC games this season and none from beginning to end. I'd be surprised if he came out for the '18 draft though.
I prefer Rosen when healthy and watching them both at their best; should be an interesting year for QB though if they both play well and come out.