Whaley to meet Chad Kelly, another red-shirt QB?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/01/senior_bowl_2017_chad_kelly_draft_doug_whaley_buffalo_bills_jim_kelly.html

[OpIv37]

Moves like this makes me nervous because I can see Russ Brandon's eyeballs turning into dollar signs over how easy it will be to sell tickets and jerseys with "Kelly" on the back. I just don't trust this org to pick him solely on football merit.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I'm in the camp of "drafting a QB every year if you don't have one." They got Jones last year; add another one this year.

Usually these QB show you they are special or not pretty quickly, even for Carr who didn't set the world on fire and took 3 years to develop.

[djjimkelly]

3rd or 4th round and allowed to compete and learn im in

[sukie]

Every year round 2-3 draft a QB. Trade out of first round if you have to. Trade for picks. Draft 2 if you want. What is there to lose? A playoff spot? Bwahahahaha

[DraftBoy]

This move is all Brandon. Could see it coming a mile away.

[Turf]

Only if round 5 or 6 for me.

[SpikedLemonade]

I don't want another drunk Kelly in Buffalo.

[Night Train]

When they wine and dine him at Tempo, expect a brawl when they overcook his lamb chops.

[DetDannyWilliams]

Moves like this makes me nervous because I can see Russ Brandon's eyeballs turning into dollar signs over how easy it will be to sell tickets and jerseys with "Kelly" on the back. I just don't trust this org to pick him solely on football merit.
Brandon is on the road with the Sabres, he was sitting with Sabres players parents in a box that made the trip to Nashville last night.

[YardRat]

He'd be in the 'first round' discussion if he didn't get hurt. I like the kid, and it has nothing to do with his name or selling tickets. IMO most of the people that flinch when they think about drafting Kelly are doing the same thing they are accusing others of...judging the player on his name...and have probably seen him play very little, if at all.

[DraftBoy]

He'd be in the 'first round' discussion if he didn't get hurt. I like the kid, and it has nothing to do with his name or selling tickets. IMO most of the people that flinch when they think about drafting Kelly are doing the same thing they are accusing others of...judging the player on his name...and have probably seen him play very little, if at all.

I don't know that he would be. He's got a good arm and good athleticism but his field vision is inconsistent, he struggles to read pre-snap at times, and he's susceptible to melting down on the field.

For every big game he played v. Bama he seemed to crater against teams like Texas A&M, Florida, LSU, Auburn, and Arkansas.

Granted it's a really bad QB class so an inflated stock wouldn't surprise me but I'm far from sold on his on the field game, that's not even talking about his many off the field problems.

[YardRat]

I don't know that he would be. He's got a good arm and good athleticism but his field vision is inconsistent, he struggles to read pre-snap at times, and he's susceptible to melting down on the field.

For every big game he played v. Bama he seemed to crater against teams like Texas A&M, Florida, LSU, Auburn, and Arkansas.

Granted it's a really bad QB class so an inflated stock wouldn't surprise me but I'm far from sold on his on the field game, that's not even talking about his many off the field problems.
Funny, I see it a little differently. He isn't perfect, but IMO his field vision is pretty good, especially when he's on the move. I also think pre-snap reads is his strength. Agree, however, that sometimes he is risky with ball security and occasionally makes poor choices trying to force something to happen and suffers a dry spell at times (not for long, however). Personally, I don't have a problem with that. I'd rather have a guy that throws a couple of picks due to over-confidence, but still has the ability to rally and put points on the board quickly, with big strikes.

[Mace]

The way I see it, he's not going to be educated and tuned by a 23 year WR coach unless Cardale can offer him some tips on refining his game that he learned from Wildcat Lee.

Unless we get a pro ready polished QB (heh), it won't matter.

[WagonCircler]

The way I see it, he's not going to be educated and tuned by a 23 year WR coach unless Cardale can offer him some tips on refining his game that he learned from Wildcat Lee.

Unless we get a pro ready polished QB (heh), it won't matter.

He's been coached by serious QB coaches his entire life. He's light years ahead of guys like Cardale, mechanically, cognitively, and he has developed an outstanding work ethic.

It's not worth arguing with idiots on this message board who think they know his story.

And it's probably not worth hoping that the Bills are smart enough to draft him on potential. Not with Whaley in charge.

[Mace]

He's been coached by serious QB coaches his entire life. He's light years ahead of guys like Cardale, mechanically, cognitively, and he has developed an outstanding work ethic.

It's not worth arguing with idiots on this message board who think they know his story.

And it's probably not worth hoping that the Bills are smart enough to draft him on potential. Not with Whaley in charge.

Well sure, but it's going to be a step up for him to the pro game wherever he goes, a new level. He's going to need a mentor or decent position coach to guide him.

[justasportsfan]

Chad will most likely be drafted by the Patriots when thwe bills trade for Garoppolo :Wonder how Jim would feel if that happened.

[mdcas22]

Kelly would have been a 1st rounder if not hurt after the combine and pro day and work outs, I would draft him in round 4 if we had 1 so either we trade down and get a 4 or you over draft him in the 3rd.

[Mr. Miyagi]

3rd or 4th round and allowed to compete and learn im in
Compete? There will be no competition. If we drafted a guy with the name Kelly, Russ Brandon will want to put him in. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[WagonCircler]

Well sure, but it's going to be a step up for him to the pro game wherever he goes, a new level. He's going to need a mentor or decent position coach to guide him.

He'd have one. His name is on the wall at the stadium.

People don't understand how hard JK worked or who he worked with. Sid Gilman, Earl Morral, Ted Marchibroda. He may not come across that way, but he's a true student of the position, and he has more friends than any single person I know. Included among them are dozens of hall of famers and coaches.

Chad would have built-in advantages and resources here like no other QB ever. He has also become close with the Mannings.

Idiots on this board love to play him off as a joke. He's no joke. He'll eventually be playing on Sundays, somewhere.

[SpikedLemonade]

He'd have one. His name is on the wall at the stadium.

People don't understand how hard JK worked or who he worked with. Sid Gilman, Earl Morral, Ted Marchibroda. He may not come across that way, but he's a true student of the position, and he has more friends than any single person I know. Included among them are dozens of hall of famers and coaches.

Chad would have built-in advantages and resources here like no other QB ever. He has also become close with the Mannings.

Idiots on this board love to play him off as a joke. He's no joke. He'll eventually be playing on Sundays, somewhere.

AND like his uncle, he'll eventually be getting drunk on Friday and Saturday nights, somewhere.

[DraftBoy]

Funny, I see it a little differently. He isn't perfect, but IMO his field vision is pretty good, especially when he's on the move. I also think pre-snap reads is his strength. Agree, however, that sometimes he is risky with ball security and occasionally makes poor choices trying to force something to happen and suffers a dry spell at times (not for long, however). Personally, I don't have a problem with that. I'd rather have a guy that throws a couple of picks due to over-confidence, but still has the ability to rally and put points on the board quickly, with big strikes.

The reason I say his field vision is inconsistent is because he only runs a two-read offense. He has his primary read, his secondary and if both are gone he's supposed to go to the safety valve or run. It's better than some offenses for sure but it takes a lot of defensive reading and decision making out of the QB's hand and even then he makes too many questionable throws into coverage for me to be comfortable with his ability.

I'm a little confused about why you think pre-snap reads are his strength since he doesn't make any checks at the line or audibles. In his spread system (like most of them) the check system is to look at the sideline for a play/route adjustment based on defensive alignment called by the coaching staff not the QB. What are you seeing that is telling you his pre-snap reads are a strength?

Fair enough about risk v. reward but you also just described Pat Mahomes, Joshua Dobbs, Deshaun Watson, Brad Kaaya, and Mitch Turbisky.

Again I'm not seeing on film where Kelly stands apart from this QB class.

[YardRat]

I'm seeing a consistent ability to get rid of the ball quickly, to an open receiver, delivered accurately. To me that displays an understanding where the ball should go based on what the defense is going to do after the ball is snapped.

[DraftBoy]

I'm seeing a consistent ability to get rid of the ball quickly, to an open receiver, delivered accurately. To me that displays an understanding where the ball should go based on what the defense is going to do after the ball is snapped.

Agreed, but that's also the primary design of the system. I'm not calling Kelly a system QB either, but those offensive systems that run that "check with me" system are more often than not the offensive coaches making adjustments based on defensive alignment not the players themselves seeing or doing it.

I will say this, his release is very quick and his motion is ideal. He loses some of his mechanics on the run but I can't think of a single QB who doesn't. The thing he has to fix about throwing the ball on the run is not throwing it over the middle or across the field. He got better at that in 2016 then he did in 2015.

[mead107]

It would be fun to have a Kelly on the team. Not sure it will work.

[SpikedLemonade]

It would be fun to have a Kelly on the team. Not sure it will work.

It would work for the City of Buffalo and surrounding area bars.

[Historian]

Idiots on this board love to play him off as a joke. He's no joke. He'll eventually be playing on Sundays, somewhere.

I don't think he's a joke, he can play, but in the end all he is.... is basically another project.

I would be happy with him in the 3rd, but not higher than that.

Maybe what he needs is a disciplinarian as a coach.

And yes, Brandon is already pricing out Kelly jerseys.

[WagonCircler]

I don't think he's a joke, he can play, but in the end all he is.... is basically another project.

Yes, but he is a project with actual potential. Chad's problem has been immaturity. People outgrow that most of the time. But you can't fix stupid, and Whaley's current pet project from Ohio State has a terminal case of stupid.

Whaley would never draft or sign Chad Kelly, so this is all for naught.

[swiper]

Yes, but he is a project with actual potential. Chad's problem has been immaturity. People outgrow that most of the time. But you can't fix stupid, and Whaley's current pet project from Ohio State has a terminal case of stupid.

Whaley would never draft or sign Chad Kelly, so this is all for naught.

If Whaley drafts Kelly will you change your mind about him (Whaley)?

[The Beef]

Would be very happy with Cardale, a backup vet and Kelly.

You throw Cardale to the fire. Let Chad sit and learn. You're likely in a spot to draft a QB high next year. If they're middle of the pack or Cardale is 100x better than everyone thinks, you do it again or roll with Kelly in year 2.

Gotta find one and its typically done at the top of the draft.

[YardRat]

Agreed, but that's also the primary design of the system. I'm not calling Kelly a system QB either, but those offensive systems that run that "check with me" system are more often than not the offensive coaches making adjustments based on defensive alignment not the players themselves seeing or doing it.

I will say this, his release is very quick and his motion is ideal. He loses some of his mechanics on the run but I can't think of a single QB who doesn't. The thing he has to fix about throwing the ball on the run is not throwing it over the middle or across the field. He got better at that in 2016 then he did in 2015.
The fact that it's a two read system already puts him ahead of most of the college QB's behind center in the college ranks right now, and in a two read system even if he is getting checks from the sideline he is still faced with multiple options that he has to choose from by looking at the defensive set after the check has come in. More often than not he makes the right read and gets rid of the ball.

It's almost like most people have gotten to a point where a college QB has to look like a finished product when he comes out even though we all know they aren't especially considering the conditions and expectations they are being coached for at that level.

[DraftBoy]

The fact that it's a two read system already puts him ahead of most of the college QB's behind center in the college ranks right now

Based on what? Turbisky, Kizer, Watson, and just about every one of other of the top QB prospect (except Mahomes) are coming out of a multiple read system.


It's almost like most people have gotten to a point where a college QB has to look like a finished product when he comes out even though we all know they aren't especially considering the conditions and expectations they are being coached for at that level.

I would say it's the opposite.

[BertSquirtgum]

AND like his uncle, he'll eventually be getting drunk on Friday and Saturday nights, somewhere.
As long as he plays like his Uncle I don't give a **** what he does on Friday and Saturday nights. As long as he doesn't rape or murder anyone.

[SpikedLemonade]

As long as he plays like his Uncle I don't give a **** what he does on Friday and Saturday nights. As long as he doesn't rape or murder anyone.

Did you give a **** when his uncle showed up hungover for 4 consecutive Super Bowls?

[WagonCircler]

If Whaley drafts Kelly will you change your mind about him (Whaley)?

No. It will tell me that he has had what little of his remaining power to make decisions stripped of him. I don't believe for a second that this HC was his hire. If the Bills draft Chad, it will be the clearest sign ever that Whaley is just a seat warmer.

[Thurmal]

I'm so desperate to see a QB actually throw tight spirals longer than eight-yard down the field, that I'm totally willing to roll the dice with Jay Cutler next year. It's sad.

Hell, give Kelly a shot. Tired of the rinky-dink, watered-down West Coast passing game this team has. Did you know our leading WR last year had 600 yards total? If the Falcons didn't have a first-round bye, Julio Jones would've gotten that in the playoffs alone. It's insane to put up WR numbers like the Bills do, given how virtually all rules are put in place to benefit the QB.

[BertSquirtgum]

Did you give a **** when his uncle showed up hungover for 4 consecutive Super Bowls?

No I was ten years old

[DraftBoy]

No. It will tell me that he has had what little of his remaining power to make decisions stripped of him. I don't believe for a second that this HC was his hire. If the Bills draft Chad, it will be the clearest sign ever that Whaley is just a seat warmer.

Let's be for real.

You could be given a seat in the draft room, watch Whaley physically bang on the table for Kelly, make the call himself and still wouldn't believe he had anything to do with it or be able to give him any credit for it.

[YardRat]

lol...Buffalo is going to take him in the second, at worst third, round and the board is going to flip their ****.

[jimmifli]

QB is such a crap shoot, I don't care what QB they pick - I'll flip my **** with any QB in the first 3 rounds.

[sudzy]

Did you give a **** when his uncle showed up hungover for 4 consecutive Super Bowls?

Man, what I would give to have another QB just show up to another Super Bowl? I don't even care if he shows up blasted. At least it means iI get to enjoy football, again. I even get to enjoy football in January, again. I know you don't like Jim Kelly, but, with him at QB, I got to enjoy football from September till the end of January. Now, I'm lucky if I care about the team past week 4.

[sudzy]

QB is such a crap shoot, I don't care what QB they pick - I'll flip my **** with any QB in the first 3 rounds.

I'd flip out if they drafted another 3rd round project in the 1st again. You can't just draft a guy a try and force him to become something, for the sake of drafting a guy. If you can get a chance to get a QB in a spot of value, you need to jump at it. Like I believed Carr and Bridgewater would have been in 2014. I know Bridgewater has issues, now. But, I liked him then and he wasn't a huge reach. But, NO.... We could draft another QB to compete with the piece of crap we forced a 1st rounder on. We had to try and will a QB out of him and as of week 17 2016 still hadn't completely given up on saving face.

[swiper]

I believe they also had a chance to jump at Russell Wilson also IIRC.

[YardRat]

Probably one of the reasons they keep missing out on QB's is they prescribe to the knuckleheads' logic of not over-drafting a guy.

I would much rather they whiffed on a QB that they took a round or two early (Manuel), than trade away future assets to move up and whiff (Losman), trade away future assets for another team's whiff (Johnson) or miss out on guy because they waited for his 'round value' to come around.

[Haile SpikedLemonade]

Man, what I would give to have another QB just show up to another Super Bowl? I don't even care if he shows up blasted. At least it means iI get to enjoy football, again. I even get to enjoy football in January, again. I know you don't like Jim Kelly, but, with him at QB, I got to enjoy football from September till the end of January. Now, I'm lucky if I care about the team past week 4.

Just because the Bills fans show up on majority drunk to the games does NOT mean the players should as well.

[jimmifli]

Probably one of the reasons they keep missing out on QB's is they prescribe to the knuckleheads' logic of not over-drafting a guy.

I would much rather they whiffed on a QB that they took a round or two early (Manuel), than trade away future assets to move up and whiff (Losman), trade away future assets for another team's whiff (Johnson) or miss out on guy because they waited for his 'round value' to come around.

And those mistakes are compounded by not continuing to draft QBs in the following years. We need a QB this year, and next year, and...