The only way Tyrod could come back from down 25 in any game

[Albany,n.y.]

Would be if the game was hearts & he shot the moon.

The goal is to win the Super Bowl. Tyrod isn't good enough. You don't lock yourself into a guy for the next 2-3 years who isn't good enough. The Bills must strive for greatness at QB and keep trying until they hit on a franchise QB. I can think of a few QBs who can come back from a 25 point deficit. Tyrod is not one of them.

[Bill Cody]

I think Tyrod would have come back, just not all the way. We kick a 55 yard FG for a final score of 28-6.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

I think Tyrod would have come back, just not all the way. We kick a 55 yard FG for a final score of 28-6.
Ok that was hilarious

[Discotrish]

Would be if the game was hearts & he shot the moon.

The goal is to win the Super Bowl. Tyrod isn't good enough. You don't lock yourself into a guy for the next 2-3 years who isn't good enough. The Bills must strive for greatness at QB and keep trying until they hit on a franchise QB. I can think of a few QBs who can come back from a 25 point deficit. Tyrod is not one of them.

Well we got beat by backup Jeff Hofstetter and journeyman Doug Williams.

Still, it would be NICE to have a franchise QB!

Patti

[Albany,n.y.]

Well we got beat by backup Jeff Hofstetter and journeyman Doug Williams.

Still, it would be NICE to have a franchise QB!

Patti
It was Mark Rypien, not Doug Williams. Williams beat Denver in Super Bowl XXII.

[ICRockets]

Whoa, Tyrod Taylor isn't as good as the best QB of all time? What a scoop!

[Ingtar33]

Whoa, Tyrod Taylor isn't as good as the best QB of all time? What a scoop!

stop speaking logic to this crew.

Bills fans have gone clinically insane. If anyone is holding a position in the lineup who isn't an all-pro and making more then league min, there will be 10 threads demanding his release, with zero discussion about how to replace him. If we have a player coming off a contract above league min, or asking for more then league min, we'll have half the board demanding we not resign him because he's not the greatest who ever played at his position. Tyrod runs the risk of getting paid his market value, CUT HIM NOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Then we'll get people posting things like "Tom Brady was a 6th rounder" or "Cardell Jones deserves a chance" or "there is <mediocre bench warmer> prospect X in the draft, he'll be availible in round 4 we must draft him!" Of course no one ever discusses why some guy will be laying around in round 4 if he's an NFL quality starter. I mean no one else wants an NFL quality starter on their roster right?

But this crew has spent the past 15 months drinking durring bills games and getting mad that we're losing and throwing bottles at posters of Tyrod, so their rage must be appeased!

[Albany,n.y.]

I don't want to be the team paying "market value" for a guy whose ceiling is 10 wins & maybe one playoff win. Let some other team waste their money on a wheel spinner. The goal is a championship not one and done or if you're lucky 2 and done in the playoffs without ever having a home playoff game.

[Thurmal]

Taylor has actual trouble coming back from being down 5 points, let alone 25. Seriously, look at his record in games where the opposing team takes the lead at any time (not just second half) of the game. He's something like 2-14.

[jamze132]

Would be if the game was hearts & he shot the moon.

The goal is to win the Super Bowl. Tyrod isn't good enough. You don't lock yourself into a guy for the next 2-3 years who isn't good enough. The Bills must strive for greatness at QB and keep trying until they hit on a franchise QB. I can think of a few QBs who can come back from a 25 point deficit. Tyrod is not one of them.

Lets be honest. No other QB is bringing their team back from 25 down in the Super Bowl...so your argument has a hole.

[Ingtar33]

Yet I don't think this squad is all that far away from competing as a superbowl team (or atleast get to the playoffs). The offense was functional for most of the past 2 years. Flashy? nope. Exciting? Nope. Functional though.

the defense has been a joke the past two years. Well not quite a complete joke. They're competent enough against the Blaine Gabberts of the NFL, but then again, so is everyone else. Had we got top 5 production from that crew we'd of been serious contenders. So while I get it. Tyrod is not Brady. What he is, is basically Alex Smith. And Andy Reid seems to be doing ok with Alex Smith. Listen, Before we got Tyrod I would have killed for Alex Smith. So would have half the forum. Now we got our alex smith bills fans can't wait to return to QB purgatory as fast as possible.

I'm not against chaising a better QB, frankly a better QB probably puts us in the playoffs just as fast as a better defense does. But I am against getting worse with no plan to get better.

Why make this thread? This thread serves no other purpose but to insult Tyrod Taylor personally. I don't like tyrod as a QB but that doesn't mean I want to insult the guy. If anything I want to thank him for giving us some exciting football for a change. (does NO ONE remember Trent Edwards or JP Losman? or EJ?) Sure show him the door, but whats the point of kicking him on the way. And if you're going to show him to the door you better be damned sure you know what you're going to do will be a step up.

[Albany,n.y.]

The worst thing you can be in the NFL is mediocre. If you're real good you have it made. If you're real bad, you have a chance to get a lot better with the #1 pick. 29% of all Super Bowls have been won by a QB drafted with the 1st overall pick in the draft. Considering the odds, being there is only 1 number 1 pick each year & it's not always a QB, that's a pretty lofty percentage. I don't want Tyrod at the current price, or any price. He's a wheel spinner-any franchise with him at QB will be paying millions to spin their wheels with little hope of rising above mediocre. I'd rather take a step back than keep spinning my wheels in a snow drift. If that means sink or swim with Cardale in 2017, so be it.

[John Doe]

The worst thing you can be in the NFL is mediocre. If you're real good you have it made. If you're real bad, you have a chance to get a lot better with the #1 pick. 29% of all Super Bowls have been won by a QB drafted with the 1st overall pick in the draft. Considering the odds, being there is only 1 number 1 pick each year & it's not always a QB, that's a pretty lofty percentage. I don't want Tyrod at the current price, or any price. He's a wheel spinner-any franchise with him at QB will be paying millions to spin their wheels with little hope of rising above mediocre. I'd rather take a step back than keep spinning my wheels in a snow drift. If that means sink or swim with Cardale in 2017, so be it.

And you won't complain about the losses one bit - right?

In fact, you will cheer them - right?

[swiper]

I don't want to be the team paying "market value" for a guy whose ceiling is 10 wins & maybe one playoff win. Let some other team waste their money on a wheel spinner. The goal is a championship not one and done or if you're lucky 2 and done in the playoffs without ever having a home playoff game.

The issue at hand is that there is not a better QB readily available. So shooting for the moon may not be a reasonable goal for right now, but 9-7 might be.

[Mr. Pink]

I still laugh at people who say that Tyrod is the pinnacle of what the Bills can acquire. Or revere him as some good/great player that without him this team would be terrible. While people who think Tyrod is good or the Bills can't do any better, they go and put down Colin Kaepernick as like the worst thing in the NFL at the QB position.

Here are Kaep's stats this past year...

59.2% 2241 yards 16 TD 4 INT 468 yards rushing in 11 games.

That's Tyrod Taylor type stats right there, difference is Kaep has been in a Super Bowl, yet these same people who think Tyrod is the best we can possibly do completely rip apart Kaep as being complete and total crap.

[ICRockets]

I still laugh at people who say that Tyrod is the pinnacle of what the Bills can acquire. Or revere him as some good/great player that without him this team would be terrible. While people who think Tyrod is good or the Bills can't do any better, they go and put down Colin Kaepernick as like the worst thing in the NFL at the QB position.

Here are Kaep's stats this past year...

59.2% 2241 yards 16 TD 4 INT 468 yards rushing in 11 games.

That's Tyrod Taylor type stats right there, difference is Kaep has been in a Super Bowl, yet these same people who think Tyrod is the best we can possibly do completely rip apart Kaep as being complete and total crap.

You realize you just made the argument that Tyrod can get us to the Super Bowl, right?

[Joe Fo Sho]

You realize you just made the argument that Tyrod can get us to the Super Bowl, right?

You realize kaepernick didn't start the 1st 9 games the year the Niners went to the Superbowl, right?

If we get the same defense as the 2012 Niners, their run game, can convince Harbaugh to leave Michigan to come to Buffalo, and Alex Smith to start our first 9 games, I'd be all for keeping Tyrod. Until then, Tyrod can have fun playing scared for the Browns.

[Albany,n.y.]

And you won't complain about the losses one bit - right?

In fact, you will cheer them - right?

Absolutely. I've always looked beyond week to week. I'd rather be really bad than mediocre. 1-15 or 2-14 is better than 7-9 100% of the time. The last time the Bills had the #1 pick, Bruce Smith was drafted. Think of the Bills without Bruce Smith. Would a few more wins in 1984 have been worth missing out on him?

The Bills have had between 7 & 9 wins 9 of the seasons during the playoff drought. I bet you were celebrating every one of those wins, which resulted in stuck in the mud wheel spinning. It's time to push the vehicle out of the mud. It will either get back on the road and thrive or spin out & crash into a ditch. If it crashes into the ditch, at least we can then call a tow truck for help instead of wasting time wheel-spinning.

[Albany,n.y.]

The issue at hand is that there is not a better QB readily available. So shooting for the moon may not be a reasonable goal for right now, but 9-7 might be.

What does a non-playoff 9-7 year get you when the QB is a guy you're always looking to replace & by keeping him, it ties your hands for 3 years in trying to replace him due to the drain on the salary cap?

[Joe Fo Sho]

1-15 or 2-14 is better than 7-9 100% of the time.

Tell that to the Rams...or the Browns...or the Jaguars.

Don't tell that to last years Falcons... or 2014's Panthers...or the 2008 Saints.

[ICRockets]

What does a non-playoff 9-7 year get you when the QB is a guy you're always looking to replace & by keeping him, it ties your hands for 3 years in trying to replace him due to the drain on the salary cap?

Fast-forward to 2020 after several 3-13 seasons without finding a QB: "Damn it, our GM sucks! He can't get top free agents to come play in Buffalo and I'm too stupid to figure out why!"

[Mr. Pink]

Fast-forward to 2020 after several 3-13 seasons without finding a QB: "Damn it, our GM sucks! He can't get top free agents to come play in Buffalo and I'm too stupid to figure out why!"

This team went 9-7 with journeyman Kyle Orton at QB.

Replacing Tyrod isn't as hard as some people want to think.

[ICRockets]

This team went 9-7 with journeyman Kyle Orton at QB.


Yeah, I'm sure the best defense we've had in over a decade had nothing to do with that.

[swiper]

What does a non-playoff 9-7 year get you when the QB is a guy you're always looking to replace & by keeping him, it ties your hands for 3 years in trying to replace him due to the drain on the salary cap?

I'm telling you that there isn't an upgrade out there to be had. What's so hard to understand? I hate the guy more than anyone.

But my goodness, I would rather not "upgrade" to McGown, Manziel, Cardale Jones or some of the other putrid names I'm seeing bandied about.

[Albany,n.y.]

I'm telling you that there isn't an upgrade out there to be had. What's so hard to understand? I hate the guy more than anyone.

But my goodness, I would rather not "upgrade" to McGown, Manziel, Cardale Jones or some of the other putrid names I'm seeing bandied about.
There is, but many people are too paranoid to want to trade for that upgrade-Jimmy Garoppolo.
If I can't upgrade I'd rather de facto tank next season because I have no QB for 1 year & be in position to get a real QB than to be tied to Taylor for the next 3 seasons.
Why is it so hard for people to understand the salary cap ramifications if we bring back Tyrod? He's not renegotiating.

[Albany,n.y.]

Tell that to the Rams...or the Browns...or the Jaguars.

Don't tell that to last years Falcons... or 2014's Panthers...or the 2008 Saints.

Those last 3 teams had 1 thing in common-a franchise QB on the roster. When you go 7-9 with a stopgap at QB, it's a worthless season. If you go 7-9 in ANY season, it's a worthless season.
The 1st 3 teams are in much better position for the future with higher draft picks than if they went 7-9. I'd rather be higher up in the draft than be 7-9. Indy went from worst to 1st their 1st season with Luck. If they had gone 7-9 instead the year before what good would it have done other than not getting everyone fired?

[Mr. Pink]

Yeah, I'm sure the best defense we've had in over a decade had nothing to do with that.

The passing offense looking more competent under Kyle Orton had nothing to do with it right?

That 2014 team was 25th in rushing with Fred Jackson and Anthony Williams leading the way.

[ICRockets]

The passing offense looking more competent under Kyle Orton had nothing to do with it right?


You really don't remember how infuriating it was to watch Kyle Orton?

[Joe Fo Sho]

Those last 3 teams had 1 thing in common-a franchise QB on the roster. When you go 7-9 with a stopgap at QB, it's a worthless season. If you go 7-9 in ANY season, it's a worthless season.
The 1st 3 teams are in much better position for the future with higher draft picks than if they went 7-9. I'd rather be higher up in the draft than be 7-9. Indy went from worst to 1st their 1st season with Luck. If they had gone 7-9 instead the year before what good would it have done other than not getting everyone fired?

So it worked once when the best prospect since Peyton Manning came out of college. Even though the Colts just had a 'worthless' season. It's failed more times than it's worked.

I'd rather be in the Broncos shoes right now than the Browns. Both had worthless seasons.

[Joe Fo Sho]

You really don't remember how infuriating it was to watch Kyle Orton?

In 2014, Orton had 5 less yards and 1 more touchdown than Tyrod had this year. He did it in 12 games, though. If watching Orton was infuriating, then no wonder some people despise Tyrod.

[YardRat]

Absolutely. I've always looked beyond week to week. I'd rather be really bad than mediocre. 1-15 or 2-14 is better than 7-9 100% of the time. The last time the Bills had the #1 pick, Bruce Smith was drafted. Think of the Bills without Bruce Smith. Would a few more wins in 1984 have been worth missing out on him?

The Bills have had between 7 & 9 wins 9 of the seasons during the playoff drought. I bet you were celebrating every one of those wins, which resulted in stuck in the mud wheel spinning. It's time to push the vehicle out of the mud. It will either get back on the road and thrive or spin out & crash into a ditch. If it crashes into the ditch, at least we can then call a tow truck for help instead of wasting time wheel-spinning.
It isn't where you pick, it's who you pick. We'd be having much different conversations right now, and reminiscing about a different past most likely, if we had drafted guys like Revis, Mangold, Orakpo...maybe even Rodgers...instead of Maybin, Whitner, McCargo, JP Losman, etc.

You don't need to tank to get Aaron Rodgers at #24, Wilson in the third instead of Graham, Derek Carr in the second, or Prescott in the fourth.

[djjimkelly]

its good this thread came back up :) because i now i have theory


he would need to pulled or hurt its very simple

[Albany,n.y.]

It isn't where you pick, it's who you pick. We'd be having much different conversations right now, and reminiscing about a different past most likely, if we had drafted guys like Revis, Mangold, Orakpo...maybe even Rodgers...instead of Maybin, Whitner, McCargo, JP Losman, etc.

You don't need to tank to get Aaron Rodgers at #24, Wilson in the third instead of Graham, Derek Carr in the second, or Prescott in the fourth.

While that's very true, when the organization's scouts are as bad as ours, the higher you pick, the better chance a no-brainer falls into your lap. The bottom line is we don't have the scouting or just the dumb luck, that we can afford trying to guess at the right player. The draft day decisions over the years have doomed us.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

In 2014, Orton had 5 less yards and 1 more touchdown than Tyrod had this year. He did it in 12 games, though. If watching Orton was infuriating, then no wonder some people despise Tyrod.
Orton was also a 10 year veteran with 70 starts under his belt, and he had Woods and Watkins for nearly the entire season. Tyrod has less than 30. Tyrod also over the course of the season had 6 wideouts go on IR, was often starting with guys signed from practice squads, waivers, or literally off their couch, had his OC fired in September (blame him for that if you like, I don't), lost his left tackle for multiple games and the right tackle all year to a suspension, and so on.

His starting wideouts for the Cincinnatti game:
Robert Woods (Questionable)
Percy Harvin (2nd game with team, signed off the couch)
Justin Hunter (Questionable, 6th game with the team)
Marquise Goodwin
Walt Powell (Questionable)
Brandon Tate

For a road game against a 2015 playoff team

Some are convinced he cannot improve and I don't see how that's true. Healthy wideouts and some consistency on his coaching staff would help. And there can be a lot worse than average play at the QB position. I say keep Tyrod and draft a QB, tanking is stupid and counter productive.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

While that's very true, when the organization's scouts are as bad as ours, the higher you pick, the better chance a no-brainer falls into your lap. The bottom line is we don't have the scouting or just the dumb luck, that we can afford trying to guess at the right player. The draft day decisions over the years have doomed us.
We had the #3 pick in the most talent-rich draft in NFL history and got a dumbass DT who's already been suspended twice.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Orton was also a 10 year veteran with 70 starts under his belt, and he had Woods and Watkins for nearly the entire season. Tyrod has less than 30. Tyrod also over the course of the season had 6 wideouts go on IR, was often starting with guys signed from practice squads, waivers, or literally off their couch, had his OC fired in September (blame him for that if you like, I don't), lost his left tackle for multiple games and the right tackle all year to a suspension, and so on.

True, but don't pretend like everything was all sunshine and rainbows for Orton in 2014. He had the 25th ranked running game (not the 1st) and he had Doug Marrone and Nate Hackett calling his plays.


Some are convinced he cannot improve and I don't see how that's true.

You could compare his stats from this year to his stats from last and see quite clearly why some people think that.

He had 56 more attempts, 12 less yards, 3 less touchdowns, and his rating dropped by 10 points. He might be able to improve in the future, but he sure as hell did not get better this year.


tanking is stupid

Agreed.

[swiper]

We had the #3 pick in the most talent-rich draft in NFL history and got a dumbass DT who's already been suspended twice.

Buddy Nix is gone.

[YardRat]

Moreso than the stats, IMO the 'eye test' shows his accuracy took a huge dip.