View Full Version : NFL.com AFC East rookie Grades...
Bills - D
However, this was a painfully inefficient draft for a team that could have been a few players away from disrupting the division.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784557/article/afc-east-rookie-grades-fins-laremy-tunsil-kenyan-drake-excel
Interesting thing to me, if you go through it, Bills got 15 starts from their rookies (including UDFA), Miami 25, Jets 34, Pats 41.
Coming off a 12-4 season, without a pick until round 2 (#60 overall), the Pats got 41 starts out of rookies and finished 14-2 with a championship.
We went from 8-8 to 7-9 with 15.
I still say Whaley is terrible (besides pro personnel), doesn't give me good feelings about the upcoming draft.
jamze132
02-09-2017, 12:42 PM
Couldn't predict Ragland's injury, same can't be said for Lawson. Add Ragland getting 16 and we're middle of the pack. Still ****ty though!
swiper
02-09-2017, 01:18 PM
It wasn't a "D."
It was a solid "F."
Thurmal
02-09-2017, 01:34 PM
Couldn't predict Ragland's injury, same can't be said for Lawson. Add Ragland getting 16 and we're middle of the pack. Still ****ty though!
Ragland was drafted specifically to play in Ryan's defense, right? Whoops.
coastal
02-09-2017, 03:20 PM
Ragland was drafted specifically to play in Ryan's defense, right? Whoops.
It's what we do... bring in "talent" to fit a system.
SpikedLemonade
02-09-2017, 04:15 PM
Whaley is good looking man and until the 9 iron releases him from the clutches of her Asian clam, he ain't going any where despite how incompetent he is as a NFL GM.
DesertFox24
02-09-2017, 04:38 PM
To be far previous teo
drafts we had a rookie of the year candidate. I will not judge if this class was good or bad at this point.
Darby was good for a second rounder. John miller looking real good so far and I like nick O'Leary will be interesting to see him but when he played this year he got good marks
2014 Sammy when healthy is very good. Preston had started so that is good and Cyrus played well at LT this year. That said due to knee issue not sure if he can replicate on right side but if he can that was not bad
no it is not earth shattering draft but better than 60 percent or more teams
i am very high in Kevon seymore by the way. Has all the athletic ability and if the eye surgery helps him out and he can take a step this year he could be very good on the outside. Or he is another Justin Gilbert with all world athletic ability but cannot play
SpikedLemonade
02-09-2017, 05:26 PM
To be far previous teo
drafts we had a rookie of the year candidate. I will not judge if this class was good or bad at this point.
Darby was good for a second rounder. John miller looking real good so far and I like nick O'Leary will be interesting to see him but when he played this year he got good marks
2014 Sammy when healthy is very good. Preston had started so that is good and Cyrus played well at LT this year. That said due to knee issue not sure if he can replicate on right side but if he can that was not bad
no it is not earth shattering draft but better than 60 percent or more teams
i am very high in Kevon seymore by the way. Has all the athletic ability and if the eye surgery helps him out and he can take a step this year he could be very good on the outside. Or he is another Justin Gilbert with all world athletic ability but cannot play
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnaeIAEp2pU
To be far previous teo
drafts we had a rookie of the year candidate. I will not judge if this class was good or bad at this point.
Darby was good for a second rounder. John miller looking real good so far and I like nick O'Leary will be interesting to see him but when he played this year he got good marks
2014 Sammy when healthy is very good. Preston had started so that is good and Cyrus played well at LT this year. That said due to knee issue not sure if he can replicate on right side but if he can that was not bad
no it is not earth shattering draft but better than 60 percent or more teams
i am very high in Kevon seymore by the way. Has all the athletic ability and if the eye surgery helps him out and he can take a step this year he could be very good on the outside. Or he is another Justin Gilbert with all world athletic ability but cannot play
The only way you can say we had a rookie of the year candidate is in that we had rookies.
Preston Brown has been the only dependable starter in Whaley drafts, with Darby & Miller more maybe than then the other maybes we always seem loaded with.
OpIv37
02-09-2017, 06:42 PM
I'm still not feeling the Whaley love. Sure, he's had a few good moves, but he has largely been ineffective. The talent level isn't what it needs to be after he's had 3 full off-seasons.
sudzy
02-09-2017, 07:08 PM
It's what we do... bring in "talent" to fit a system.
Then change the system every other year. Or every year. Last year was the first year they haven't switched for a 3-4 to a 4-3 or back since 2011.
Then change the system every other year. Or every year. Last year was the first year they haven't switched for a 3-4 to a 4-3 or back since 2011.
Ryan's hybrid system was a unique example of terrible though, because it was both while being neither. Mostly they lined up as a 5-2, then had 15 adjustments at offense setup and personnel to define what it was really supposed to be at the snap. We weren't really a 3-4 though. If you look at it hard we were really a 5-2, 4-3, 3-4 maybe or not.
Was a really stupid system we changed into though, yes. Kind of still stuns me what he did with Schwartz's successful defense. Schwartz only had a year and you got no sense at all that there was any painful transition from Pettine's 3-4, 5-2, 4-3 maybe or not.
DesertFox24
02-10-2017, 01:11 PM
The only way you can say we had a rookie of the year candidate is in that we had rookies.
Preston Brown has been the only dependable starter in Whaley drafts, with Darby & Miller more maybe than then the other maybes we always seem loaded with.
Darby was in rookie of the year conversation and finished second may I remind you.
DesertFox24
02-10-2017, 01:12 PM
I'm still not feeling the Whaley love. Sure, he's had a few good moves, but he has largely been ineffective. The talent level isn't what it needs to be after he's had 3 full off-seasons.
I do agree with you to a point. Where he has failed is QB, if he gets a good QB then his bad moves will get hidden like the pats if he does not get a QB then he has to be perfect in everything else and no GM can do that.
DesertFox24
02-10-2017, 01:14 PM
Ryan's hybrid system was a unique example of terrible though, because it was both while being neither. Mostly they lined up as a 5-2, then had 15 adjustments at offense setup and personnel to define what it was really supposed to be at the snap. We weren't really a 3-4 though. If you look at it hard we were really a 5-2, 4-3, 3-4 maybe or not.
Was a really stupid system we changed into though, yes. Kind of still stuns me what he did with Schwartz's successful defense. Schwartz only had a year and you got no sense at all that there was any painful transition from Pettine's 3-4, 5-2, 4-3 maybe or not.
The only position I am worried about on def is the linebacker group. I think we have some decent corners who can play zone. Safety was a hole even with ryan so yeah that was going to get addressed. The DLine I think we need another edge rusher as we have a bunch of DTs and only two DEs, three if you count Lorenzo, so we need more bodies for a good rotation.
Darby was in rookie of the year conversation and finished second may I remind you.
You probably have to remind me. Jameis Winston, Amari Cooper, Todd Gurley, Tyler Lockett and Marcus Peters were the finalists.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000633207/article/jameis-winston-wins-pepsi-rookie-of-the-year-award
swiper
02-11-2017, 08:36 AM
To be far previous teo
drafts we had a rookie of the year candidate. I will not judge if this class was good or bad at this point.
Darby was good for a second rounder. John miller looking real good so far and I like nick O'Leary will be interesting to see him but when he played this year he got good marks
2014 Sammy when healthy is very good. Preston had started so that is good and Cyrus played well at LT this year. That said due to knee issue not sure if he can replicate on right side but if he can that was not bad
no it is not earth shattering draft but better than 60 percent or more teams
i am very high in Kevon seymore by the way. Has all the athletic ability and if the eye surgery helps him out and he can take a step this year he could be very good on the outside. Or he is another Justin Gilbert with all world athletic ability but cannot play
Please stop. John Miller is NOT good. He took a big step backwards last year. He got schooled often and easily at times. It would help if you actually watched.
Nick O'leary is NOT good. He's a blocker and that is it. He's slow and lumbering. He's likely gone soon.
Darby, who I happen to like, was exposed badly at times this past season. Also a come down to earth season.
YardRat
02-11-2017, 12:00 PM
You probably have to remind me. Jameis Winston, Amari Cooper, Todd Gurley, Tyler Lockett and Marcus Peters were the finalists.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000633207/article/jameis-winston-wins-pepsi-rookie-of-the-year-award
I think he might be referring to DROY, in which Darby finished second to Peters.
I think he might be referring to DROY, in which Darby finished second to Peters.
Well yeah, if you note that Peters had 45 votes to 4 for Darby and 1 for Leonard Williams. Not too sure that's real impressive. Notable as well that Peters and Williams got better in 2016 while Darby sure didn't.
Woo ? No.
DesertFox24
02-11-2017, 06:17 PM
You probably have to remind me. Jameis Winston, Amari Cooper, Todd Gurley, Tyler Lockett and Marcus Peters were the finalists.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000633207/article/jameis-winston-wins-pepsi-rookie-of-the-year-award
Def rookie my friend. Good try
DesertFox24
02-11-2017, 06:22 PM
Well yeah, if you note that Peters had 45 votes to 4 for Darby and 1 for Leonard Williams. Not too sure that's real impressive. Notable as well that Peters and Williams got better in 2016 while Darby sure didn't.
Woo ? No.
It was a fact he finished second. You can try and throw alternative facts all you want but you cannot deny the facts.
Miller is not an all pro nor will he ever be but he played much better in 2016 and showed he is a solid starter. I would comfortably put him in top 30 guards so he is better than half of the guards out there. Top 30 has also age factor in that he is younger and is stroll trending up potentially while other older guards are starting to wear down see jaguar Evans
DesertFox24
02-11-2017, 06:24 PM
All that said whaleys refusal to draft a qb lends me to believe he is afraid and does not want to stake his job to a qb so he can claw on as long as he can. If he drafts a top 12 qb then we will all approve of him if he fails AGAIN at this position he needs to be fired
YardRat
02-11-2017, 07:02 PM
Well yeah, if you note that Peters had 45 votes to 4 for Darby and 1 for Leonard Williams. Not too sure that's real impressive.
Sure, Peters won the votes going away, but Darby was the only other defensive rookie to get more than one...or any at all. Every other defensive rookie in the league can't say the same (except for Peters, obviously).
Notable as well that Peters and Williams got better in 2016 while Darby sure didn't.
Woo ? No.
I blame Wrecks, but we all know that anyway.
It was a fact he finished second. You can try and throw alternative facts all you want but you cannot deny the facts.
Miller is not an all pro nor will he ever be but he played much better in 2016 and showed he is a solid starter. I would comfortably put him in top 30 guards so he is better than half of the guards out there. Top 30 has also age factor in that he is younger and is stroll trending up potentially while other older guards are starting to wear down see jaguar Evans
Heh, alternative facts. Well try alternative misleading statements. There's no helping you if you think Darby matches up with Peters, Williams, Amari Cooper, Jameis Winston, Todd Gurley or Tyler Lockett from that rookie class with his 4 votes out of 50 in half the category. Kolby Listenbee who played no games is technically a rookie of the year candidate because he was a rookie that year. Don't give me that propaganda garbage, look at the obvious facts.
Darby wasn't even a finalist in the rookie of the year was he ? No.
The finalists no matter how you try to spin it, did not include Darby so just admit you're wrong. They included Winston, Gurley, Lockett, Cooper and Peters. No matter how hard I look at it, I don't see the name Darby there.
That doesn't "make him second" for rookie of the year. It changes your whole assertion. Man up.
Sure, Peters won the votes going away, but Darby was the only other defensive rookie to get more than one...or any at all. Every other defensive rookie in the league can't say the same (except for Peters, obviously).
I blame Wrecks, but we all know that anyway.
Darby wasn't even a finalist for rookie of the year which was asserted. And no he wasn't the only other defensive rookie to get any at all, Leonard Williams got one which oddly, is pointed out in the post you quoted.
YardRat
02-12-2017, 12:31 AM
Darby wasn't even a finalist for rookie of the year which was asserted. And no he wasn't the only other defensive rookie to get any at all, Leonard Williams got one which oddly, is pointed out in the post you quoted.
Yeah, I'm aware of that, I was thinking I should have clarified better as I was hitting 'post'.
Darby certainly isn't 'all that', and wasn't for his entire rookie year. He tailed off after hitting the first-year wall and hasn't recovered yet. I'm hoping a majority of that is the system. I don't put a lot of stock where defensive players are ranked for the NFL's 'overall' ROTY...it's usually dominated by offensive candidates anyway. #2 for DROTY behind only Peters, regardless of the votes, still isn't a bad thing IMO.
sudzy
02-12-2017, 05:34 AM
Yeah, I'm aware of that, I was thinking I should have clarified better as I was hitting 'post'.
Darby certainly isn't 'all that', and wasn't for his entire rookie year. He tailed off after hitting the first-year wall and hasn't recovered yet. I'm hoping a majority of that is the system. I don't put a lot of stock where defensive players are ranked for the NFL's 'overall' ROTY...it's usually dominated by offensive candidates anyway. #2 for DROTY behind only Peters, regardless of the votes, still isn't a bad thing IMO.
I thought Darby was hosed for Defensive ROY, but, after last year it was clear Peters is a much better player.
DesertFox24
02-12-2017, 12:29 PM
Heh, alternative facts. Well try alternative misleading statements. There's no helping you if you think Darby matches up with Peters, Williams, Amari Cooper, Jameis Winston, Todd Gurley or Tyler Lockett from that rookie class with his 4 votes out of 50 in half the category. Kolby Listenbee who played no games is technically a rookie of the year candidate because he was a rookie that year. Don't give me that propaganda garbage, look at the obvious facts.
Darby wasn't even a finalist in the rookie of the year was he ? No.
The finalists no matter how you try to spin it, did not include Darby so just admit you're wrong. They included Winston, Gurley, Lockett, Cooper and Peters. No matter how hard I look at it, I don't see the name Darby there.
That doesn't "make him second" for rookie of the year. It changes your whole assertion. Man up.
Never said Darby was better than peters but he finished second in droy that is a fact. You can throw whatever else you want at it but it is a fact. Trump unfortunately is our president. Even though the dem party put up a terrible candidate that was supposed to win in 2008 and did not win her own party. So this time they put up a bunch of nobodies whom one almost and should have won and that guy would have beat trump. That a hole is still the president of the us and will always be throughout history be our 45th president.
Darby finished second for droy and he was drafted by Whaley. Darby had a bad soph year. These are facts.
Disclaimer i did not even know they had an overall rookie of the year I though it was just def and off. Hence my mistake in saying he finished second in rookie of the year voting. I was specifically talking about droy so my apologies to the board for my mistake.
They've done 4 divisions now, the other team SB team Atlanta, got 62 starts, including 12 from UDFA, including 11 from a UDFA CB. Last years SB loser Carolina even got 25 starts and UDFA's that played in 22 games.
Powerful Cowboys got 56 starts from their rookies, and 27 games including 9 starts from UDFA's.
Whaley is terrible at drafting.
Jeff1220
02-14-2017, 09:32 AM
Whaley is good looking man and until the 9 iron releases him from the clutches of her Asian clam, he ain't going any where despite how incompetent he is as a NFL GM.
This post is a racist, sexist pile of garbage.
Frenchman
02-14-2017, 11:33 AM
Need too beef up the defense indeed!
DesertFox24
02-15-2017, 12:21 AM
They've done 4 divisions now, the other team SB team Atlanta, got 62 starts, including 12 from UDFA, including 11 from a UDFA CB. Last years SB loser Carolina even got 25 starts and UDFA's that played in 22 games.
Powerful Cowboys got 56 starts from their rookies, and 27 games including 9 starts from UDFA's.
Whaley is terrible at drafting.
Whaley has not been drafting for rookies to start. If you look at his drafts he has taken players at positions of strength in later rounds instead of filling holes so those guys are not going to play.
Now Seymore for better or worse may be the starter next year, Ragland, Shaq, if Kyle leaves Washington will have to play.
Looking at his draft success based on rookie starts is rather idiotic if you ask me because I could in theory turn it around and say if the team was better over all not that many rookies would be playing.
That said of his 3 drafts we can hang our hat on Sammy (when healthy not saying I would have done the trade but he is good), Darby, Preston Brown, John Miller are the only consistent starters.
Karlos Williams had a great rookie season but ate himself out of the league. John williams is an intriguing pick was looked at as a second third round guy until he got hurt.
Has Whaley done well or bad I would say he is average. Where Whaley has failed is at drafting QBs and is lack of conviction to draft them until he gets one, that is my main issue with him.
That said I am not going to change your opinion because just like anything you or I can skew stats to be in our favor.
Skooby
02-15-2017, 01:44 AM
Bills - D
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000784557/article/afc-east-rookie-grades-fins-laremy-tunsil-kenyan-drake-excel
Interesting thing to me, if you go through it, Bills got 15 starts from their rookies (including UDFA), Miami 25, Jets 34, Pats 41.
Coming off a 12-4 season, without a pick until round 2 (#60 overall), the Pats got 41 starts out of rookies and finished 14-2 with a championship.
We went from 8-8 to 7-9 with 15.
I still say Whaley is terrible (besides pro personnel), doesn't give me good feelings about the upcoming draft.
Unless we go all in and draft the next Brady or Luck, then he's brilliant.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.