Is OJ Howard worth picking at 10?

[Oaf]

I could go either way on it. Thoughts?

[YardRat]

I hope so, and I hope Tampa Bay wants him bad enough to move up into our spot at ten and float us a couple of picks to do so.

[kgun12]

I think I'd be happier with Howard then Williams. I don't know why, I just don't want Williams.

[BillsImpossible]

Excellent blocker, would give the Bills a powerful 2 TE set. Underutilized by Alabama in the passing game.

6'6 251 lbs. It's like drafting a lineman and a TE too. Howard would instantly give the Bills offense an identity.

Double Tight Ends, Fullback, RB, 2 WR set....but.

That's the other thing I like about OJ Howard, he could be a #2 WR.

This Draft Analysis at NFL.com makes Howard sound more like a potential WR to me...

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/o.j.-howard?id=2557856

Kind of an arcane analysis, but interesting read.

Some scouts are questioning his "competitive nature." Don't know if has the "desire" to play football.

Maybe he knew that his talents were being used the wrong way at Alabama...maybe he is a #2 WR?

STRENGTHS Exceptionally gifted athlete. Has long arms and massive hands for his position. Tremendous acceleration into his routes. Has tools to torment defenses on second and third level. Play speed resembles a wide receiver's when the ball is in the air. Linebackers have no shot against him in space. Can turn a short throw into a long gain. Light on his feet and smooth out of his breaks. Easy separator who creates instant throwing windows when he hits the gas. Natural pass catcher who plucks it away from his body. Can adjust to poorly thrown balls and secure contested catches. Shows no lack of toughness over the middle.

[EDS]

Given the dearth of depth and starting caliber talent at linebacker and in the defensive backfield I don't see how you can pass on available talent at those positions versus an offensive player sure to be underutilized.

[cookie G]

Mike Lombardi sums it up pretty well:

I believe that tight ends act like knights on a chessboard. They don’t have as much value as queens or rooks, and they become less effective near the edges of the board. But in the middle? They can do serious damage. Howard is one of the purest tight ends in recent drafts: He can line up on the line, block the edge, and catch passes. In chess, he’s a knight. In football, he’s known as a “Y.” When teams have a pure Y on the line and flank him with a second inside receiver — a bigger guy like Washington’s Jordan Reed — that allows them to launch “12” personnel (one back, two tight ends) and create mismatches everywhere.

You might remember the Patriots wanting to do this with Gronk and Martellus Bennett last year, but they couldn’t keep Gronk on the field. In 12 with a pure Y like Gronk or Howard, the defense has to respect the run; that forces the team to play its base defense, opening everything up for the second big receiver (Bennett, Reed, whomever). Howard is better than every 2017 offensive prospect because of how much better he makes his teammates. I hate hearing crap like “You can’t draft a tight end in the top 10.” That’s nonsense. True Y’s like Howard are almost impossible to find. If they did the 2010 draft over again, would Gronk go in the top 10? I rest my case.

https://theringer.com/2017-nfl-draft-top-prospects-leonard-fournette-deshaun-watson-302c5ae6434c

[Mace]

Mike Lombardi sums it up pretty well:

I believe that tight ends act like knights on a chessboard. They don’t have as much value as queens or rooks, and they become less effective near the edges of the board. But in the middle? They can do serious damage. Howard is one of the purest tight ends in recent drafts: He can line up on the line, block the edge, and catch passes. In chess, he’s a knight. In football, he’s known as a “Y.” When teams have a pure Y on the line and flank him with a second inside receiver — a bigger guy like Washington’s Jordan Reed — that allows them to launch “12” personnel (one back, two tight ends) and create mismatches everywhere.

You might remember the Patriots wanting to do this with Gronk and Martellus Bennett last year, but they couldn’t keep Gronk on the field. In 12 with a pure Y like Gronk or Howard, the defense has to respect the run; that forces the team to play its base defense, opening everything up for the second big receiver (Bennett, Reed, whomever). Howard is better than every 2017 offensive prospect because of how much better he makes his teammates. I hate hearing crap like “You can’t draft a tight end in the top 10.” That’s nonsense. True Y’s like Howard are almost impossible to find. If they did the 2010 draft over again, would Gronk go in the top 10? I rest my case.

https://theringer.com/2017-nfl-draft-top-prospects-leonard-fournette-deshaun-watson-302c5ae6434c

If you have a QB to utilize it, in an offense meant for it. Just saying.

[BillsImpossible]

If you have a QB to utilize it, in an offense meant for it. Just saying.

Can Tyrod Taylor play in high heel stiletto cleats?

[Mace]

Can Tyrod Taylor play in high heel stiletto cleats?

Absolutely. I read it somewhere but can't find the link.

[cookie G]

If you have a QB to utilize it, in an offense meant for it. Just saying.

Well, you're not getting a QB either when you keep drafting cornerbacks. Just saying.

[BillsImpossible]

To be fair to Tyrod Taylor, I did find a link that is quite interesting.

Something beyond hope.

Give Tyrod a new shiny toy in OJ Howard, Doug. You went all out on Sammy to prop up EJ Manuel, so why not go all in on Tyrod too?

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/2016/12/21/14038058/tyrod-taylor-bills-2016-in-the-pocket-passing-statistics-will-probably-surprise-you

As you can probably imagine, the majority of the guesses pegged Tyrod as a much worse quarterback when passing from inside the pocket.
However, the statistics say he’s actually been productive and efficient in the most “traditional” element of playing quarterback during the 2016 season.

[Turf]

No way I take a TE this early.

[Scumbag College]

I think that Howard would give the Bills the most immediate chance to "win now" than any other player in the draft. LBs and CBs will be there in the second and third rounds, but Howard seems to be a special player and can make the Bills offense a tough team to matchup against.

[Oaf]

I think I'd be happier with Howard then Williams. I don't know why, I just don't want Williams.
Same, I don't know why…

[Luisito23]

I wish, but he won't make it to 10.

Guy's a monster though, so let's hope he slides.

[Night Train]

He's worth it but the Bills don't utilize Clay at all. So why have two guys a scrambling QB ignores ?

[SpikedLemonade]

Drafting a TE at #10 overall after having all that money tied up in Clay when you have a QB who can't see over his OL and the DL in the middle to find one TE let along another?

Are you guys puckin' nuts?

[cookie G]

Drafting a TE at #10 overall after having all that money tied up in Clay when you have a QB who can't see over his OL and the DL in the middle to find one TE let along another?

Are you guys puckin' nuts?

Admit it..if it were a 2010 redo, you'd STILL take Torrell Troup over Gronk.

[SpikedLemonade]

Admit it..if it were a 2010 redo, you'd STILL take Torrell Troup over Gronk.

Come on....we needed Troup because he fit the new scheme.

[swiper]

I really wish people would just stop linking OJ Howard to the Bills. It makes absolutely no sense at all on any level.

[swiper]

Come on....we needed Troup because he fit the new scheme.

:rofl: This gets my vote for post of the day.

[Historian]

Ty 2 Howard?

Some of Jim Kelly's best passing years were when he had Metzelaars and Rolle to throw to.

A TE can be a quarterback's best friend.

Unfortunately, we have way too many other holes to worry about a position that we addressed in FA just two years ago.

[EDS]

Ty 2 Howard?

Some of Jim Kelly's best passing years were when he had Metzelaars and Rolle to throw to.

A TE can be a quarterback's best friend.

Unfortunately, we have way too many other holes to worry about a position that we addressed in FA just two years ago.

Butch Rolle had 38 career receptions. So yeah.

In his career with the Bills (actually in his entire career) only once did Metzelaars exceed 500 yards receiving in a season. Keith McKellers never had 500 yards receiving in his career. He exceeded 400 only twice, and in those two years Metzelaars had fewer than 100 receiving yards combined.

[Historian]

How many went for TDs?

My point was that the TE is the safety valve when the QB gets in trouble.

[djjimkelly]

i dont think he will make it to 10. and this guy is a matchup nightmare waiting to happen.

i would love if we took him. tyrod sucks so this would be a nice pick for the future QB

[swiper]

i dont think he will make it to 10. and this guy is a matchup nightmare waiting to happen.

i would love if we took him. tyrod sucks so this would be a nice pick for the future QB

Outside of the kickers, a TE is the least important guy to be taking that high unless your team is otherwise "built" and only missing that position. I would be surprised to see him go in the top 15 picks.

[The last buffalo fan]

Outside of the kickers, a TE is the least important guy to be taking that high unless your team is otherwise "built" and only missing that position. I would be surprised to see him go in the top 15 picks.

You are wide right, amigo. :up:

[swiper]

You are wide right, amigo. :up:

Lo siento, mi amigo, pero que es usted. Elección de este jugador sería un crimen.

[Mahdi]

In a draft with very limited top end talent, Howard's value is much higher than any other draft.

His measurables are elite and for this type of offense that Dennison runs he can be a star.

I would say he's going to be drafted before we pick at 10.

[k-oneputt]

If we had Brady qbing I would be all for it.
We have a qb who doesn't use the one te we have.

[Ed]

He's worth it but the Bills don't utilize Clay at all. So why have two guys a scrambling QB ignores ?
That's not really true considering Clay led the team in receptions last year. Plus we have a new OC and system so we really don't know how players are going to be utilized, but the expectation seems to be that TEs will be an important part of the O.

[Ed]

Outside of the kickers, a TE is the least important guy to be taking that high unless your team is otherwise "built" and only missing that position. I would be surprised to see him go in the top 15 picks.
Well get ready to be surprised. Howard will probably be gone before #10. Value and importance depends on the player and OJ Howard is a pretty rare prospect. If OJ Howard is there at #10 and the Bills don't trade down, I would prepare yourself for being pretty upset.

[The last buffalo fan]

Well get ready to be surprised. Howard will probably be gone before #10. Value and importance depends on the player and OJ Howard is a pretty rare prospect. If OJ Howard is there at #10 and the Bills don't trade down, I would prepare yourself for being pretty upset.

Mahomes QB, Williams WR, or Howard TE ....... :pray: :gobills:

[k-oneputt]

Mahomes QB, Williams WR, or Howard TE ....... :pray: :gobills:

They don't have the balls or smarts to draft a qb like Mahomes at #10.

[k-oneputt]

We currently have a qb who doesn't use the middle of the field, I really don't know how he would use both Clay and Howard.

[YardRat]

That would be Buffalo's m.o., draft a TE at #10 and he performs like Butch Rolle v2.0.

[SpikedLemonade]

Is it possible we have the most ******ed fanbase in the NFL?

What fan would be stupid enough to ask their team to heavily invest in another under-utilized TE?

[Oaf]

Guy makes the pass game AND run game better. Having 2-TE package sets that don't predicate a run or a pass. What's to complain about?

[JoeMama]

Guy makes the pass game AND run game better. Having 2-TE package sets that don't predicate a run or a pass. What's to complain about?

It's not OJ Howard we'd be complaining about.

It's the fact we don't have anyone behind center who can get the ball in his hands.

[The last buffalo fan]

Is it possible we have the most ******ed fanbase in the NFL?

What fan would be stupid enough to ask their team to heavily invest in another under-utilized TE?

Lo siento, no comprende.

[TigerJ]

There is not much question that Howard has elite athleticism and skill set. The only hesitations with valuing him that high are his modest production in Alabama's offense and the tradition of assigning lower values to tight ends (along with guards, centers, fullbacks, and safeties.) Safeties are starting to valued higher as we can see this year with two likely in the top ten overall. Tight ends have become a much more important part of the offense of a number of teams in the NFL, and as long as the Bills have the intention of making use of him, that should not be an impediment to taking him at #10. As far as his production at Alabama is concerned, the modest numbers seem to be limited by his offensive coordinator, Lance Kiffin. I'm sure there will be doubts until/unless he goes on to have a career like Gronkowski or Jimmy Graham. For myself, I don't think there is much question that he's a top ten player.

[Buddo]

There was a 'Fan Friday' piece Chris Brown did recently, where he said something along the lines of, if Howard is available at #10, don't be surprised to see the Bills running to the podium. Now bearing in mind Brown's situation, I wouldn't necessarily see then taking Howard, it might be that someone else is also available that they like, but I do think the insight about Howard being viewed that well, is genuine. In Mayock's top 100, Mahdi just posted a link to, he comes in at #9 overall. Fwiw, Reddick comes in at #10.

I think Howard has far too much ability, and athleticism, to label him as just another TE. 4.51 speed is quicker than HOF WRs. I don't think you have to use him just over the middle, I think you can use him all over the place.

[Oaf]

Is this guy Gronk-level or no?

[swiper]

Is this guy Gronk-level or no?

In a Tony Hunter kind of way.

[swiper]

Bills have been severely burned by taking a no-miss TE this high before (1983).

[Ed]

Bills have been severely burned by taking a no-miss TE this high before (1983).
You could say that about any position for any team if you're going to go back 30+ years.

[swiper]

You could say that about any position for any team if you're going to go back 30+ years.

The thing that have always let people forgive the Bills for the Tony Hunter misstep was the rest of that draft.

[cookie G]

The thing that have always let people forgive the Bills for the Tony Hunter misstep was the rest of that draft.

He wasn't quite the bust people made him out to be.

His rookie year he had over 400 yards in receiving in an offense where no one except Joe Cribbs had more than 500 yards. They spread the ball around..a lot that year.

He had some injuries his second year and missed some games.

In 1985, they were desperate for a QB. Fergy was toward the end of his career and Kelly was slinging it in the USFL.

So they used him as trade bait for Ferragamo, who was still a name at that time. They were hoping to get the Ferragamo who threw for 3200 yards in 1983, or the Ferragamo who led the Rams to the Super Bowl. He bolted to the CFL in 1981 and ended up coming back..and didn't get along with John Robinson.

But..they didn't get either.

Hunter was the 2nd leading receiver on a Rams team that didn't pass much, but went 11-5.

He blew out his knee the next year and that was the end of his career.

The trade was like the Shady for Kiko trade...where the thought was you have to give up qualtiy to get quality...they just didn't get quality in return. The trade was actually considered a big deal at the time.

I will say...in his rookie year, he far out produced the one armed bandit we drafted in the 1st round last year.

In fact, if you're looking at a position to avoid drafting...maybe its DE.

Our last 2 1st round picks at that position?

2 sacks and 21 tackles over 3 seasons.

That's .666666667 sacks and 7 tackles per year.

[Mace]

Well, you're not getting a QB either when you keep drafting cornerbacks. Just saying.

Well you can be sure you aren't spending a pick on a bad one though. Don't lump me in with wanting only a CB. CB, S, or LB is what I want. You DO, on the other hand, improve your defense to make best use of your rushing attack and current QB skillset. Just sayin.

:beer:

[swiper]

The Bills really needed Ferragamo at the time of that trade IIRC.

[Mouldsie]

I'd be okay with it in this draft. We're in an awkward spot.

[cookie G]

Well you can be sure you aren't spending a pick on a bad one though.

Um...

2012

Mo Claiborne no. 6 overall - bust
Mark Barron No. 7 overall - on his 2nd team, moved to LB

2013

Dee Millner No. 9 overall no longer in the league
DJ Hayden 12th overall- on his 2nd team with a one year "prove it" contract. A bust with the Raiders
Kenny Vaccaro 15th overall- teamed with Jairus Byrd to form the safety tandem on one of the worst D's in the NFL. Ranked 31st, 32nd and 27th in the past 3 years.

2014

Justin Gilbert 8th overall - Started 3 games in a 3 season career. cut by Pittsburgh after a year.
Kyle Fuller 14th overall - didn't play at all last year, was put on injured reserve, some think it was a healthy injured reserve. He might not make the final roster this year.
Calvin Pryor - 18th overall. He was getting pulled last year because his coverage skills were so bad.


that's 8 in just the past 5 years. All except Pryor were top 15 picks. That's about as far from a sure thing as you can get.

You're making a great case to take a chance on a QB..because you're taking a greater risk with a DB..




Don't lump me in with wanting only a CB. CB, S, or LB is what I want. You DO, on the other hand, improve your defense to make best use of your rushing attack and current QB skillset. Just sayin.

:beer:

mmhmm. We used our 5 highest picks over the past 2 years on D and....its worse. Substantially worse than in 2014.

And people still want to keep throwing prime assets at it because "it needs it."

Tell me again how the D got stronger?

[The Jokeman]

He's worth it but the Bills don't utilize Clay at all. So why have two guys a scrambling QB ignores ?

Because said QB only under contract for two more seasons whereas the TE could be around for maybe four/five seasons or more.

[BillsImpossible]

An Uber driver told me that OJ Howard is the pick for the Bills.

Caller on WGR made a great point this morning saying how Howard gives the Bills more versatility on offense over any other player.

With double TE's, 2 WR, a FB, and RB for the Bills, defenses are going to play nickel...and get run over.