Thoughts on the trade with KC?

[Klaista2k]

I don't think it was that great to be honest.

We traded away the 10th overall pick or the 27th (HUGE drop-off in talent) and picked up a late 3rd, and what will most likely be a late 1st in 2018.

I guess it's OKAY but I'm really not crazy that we had to move so far down.

What do you guys think about the trade overall?

[MJones83]

I think we could have/should have squeezed one more pick out of them. At least a 4th this year or a 3rd next.

[stuckincincy]

I don't think it was that great to be honest.

We traded away the 10th overall pick or the 27th (HUGE drop-off in talent) and picked up a late 3rd, and what will most likely be a late 1st in 2018.

I guess it's OKAY but I'm really not crazy that we had to move so far down.

What do you guys think about the trade overall?

My guess is they bought ammunition for next year - to possibly sell off to move up - which I hear is supposed to be a better year for the QB crop.

The CB they got late in the 1st rnd seems to be ok. They needed to draft one with the Gilmore departure.

Kyle Williams's days are numbered, and Dareus, who knows?

I'd like to see them get a DT tomorrow. And a WR...pretty thin there.

[Klaista2k]

My guess is they bought ammunition for next year - to possibly sell off to move up - which I hear is supposed to be a better year for the QB crop.

The CB they got late in the 1st rnd seems to be ok. They needed to draft one with the Gilmore departure.

Kyle Williams's days are numbered, and Dareus, who knows?

I'd like to see them get a DT tomorrow. And a WR...pretty thin there.

Yeah that makes sense.

I just hope we'll have enough ammo to get into the top 5 to land of these quarterbacks.

[zone]

We are not smarter than Andy Reid.

[Scumbag College]

It's a sound investment in the future. The Bills have four of the top 100 picks in this draft and two of the top 32 picks next year. New coach, (probably) new GM, and out of cap hell after 2018 it looks like thanks to the Clay and Dareus contracts. The White pick wasn't flashy at all but he will probably be solid in this defensive scheme, not to mention is about as high character of a guy that there is in this draft.

[Novacane]

I like it. They were probably taking a DB at 10 anyway which would of still had people *****ing. White has as good a chance as making it as whoever that would of been. If we had to draft a DB I'll take the two extra picks. Good move!

[swiper]

The player they got would have been there for their 2nd round pick. Stupid are all the people calling that a solid pick. Yes. It would be a solid round #2 pick. Not a solid 1st round pick.

The 2018 KC first will be at the tail end of the draft and therefore be more like a 2nd round pick. All the posters "hoping for a KC tank" are making me laugh.

Bills fans spend more time hoping for the draft than they do hoping to win football games. If McDermott can change that ridiculousness, then he should be crowned king of WNY.

[swiper]

Meanwhile we had to watch the Jets walk away with Jamal Adams.

[Oaf]

The player they got would have been there for their 2nd round pick. Stupid are all the people calling that a solid pick. Yes. It would be a solid round #2 pick. Not a solid 1st round pick.

The 2018 KC first will be at the tail end of the draft and therefore be more like a 2nd round pick. All the posters "hoping for a KC tank" are making me laugh.

Bills fans spend more time hoping for the draft than they do hoping to win football games. If McDermott can change that ridiculousness, then he should be crowned king of WNY.

White was projected mid 1st to early 2nd. Neither a steal nor a reach. He very well could've gone 40. We'll pick another good player around then.

[YardRat]

I would have liked to get another pick in this year's draft, and yes, White most likely would have been there at 44 so I'll be watching who comes off the board early tonight.

[Night Train]

I like it. They were probably taking a DB at 10 anyway which would of still had people *****ing. White has as good a chance as making it as whoever that would of been. If we had to draft a DB I'll take the two extra picks. Good move!

That's my thinking. They were going CB and that pool of talent was very deep. So once the phone rang, they took the deal.

I also believe the sheer amount of guys at the top with medical concerns played big in this.

[Cali512]

I have to say if we got Rueben Foster or one of the OL, everyone here would be ecstatic that we got a 1st and 3rd along with an elite LB. But since we didn't, I think a lot of people are going to question the move. But we now have 2 picks in what everyone is saying will be one of the best QB drafts in a long time

[Skooby]

I can't wait for next year and the year after that, maybe the following year will be even better. Our scouting staff mailed it in here and knew well before the draft they're gone, it shows. Good riddance to them
and enjoy the money you didn't deserve, please take Whaley with you.

[Kenny]

First thought was I hated it... Hooker and Lattimore still on the board!
But time will tell.

If Hooker turns into the next Ed Reed or Eric Berry, or Lattimore becomes a shut down corner, or Mahommes works out then this is an obvious fail.

Sure we have 2 picks next year which is great. But dont think for a second that this is enough ammo to move the #1 spot for that QB from USC. If you held that pick, and had a kid that you thought was the next Luck, Manning, Newton, etc... a true ELITE and franchise QB, you wouldnt trade it for all the picks in the draft.

[SpikedLemonade]

Not a move made by a team that expects to contend soon.

[X-Era]

Love it.

[Cali512]

I really think this year was very overrated. In the top 10, I only think Jamal Adams is the only sire fire star. Garrett, Trubisky, Fournette, Ross, Davis, and Williams never intrigued me at all

[HHURRICANE]

"My guess" is that if your getting a new GM he most likely wants to go to a team that has draft picks and cap room to start his new job with.

White is a smart, coaches dream, kind of player. You don't get to wear 18 at LSU by chance.

[Joe Fo Sho]

I love the trade. Stockpile ammo for next year so you can take the player (QB) you want, not the one that falls to you, if need be.


Sure we have 2 picks next year which is great. But dont think for a second that this is enough ammo to move the #1 spot for that QB from USC. If you held that pick, and had a kid that you thought was the next Luck, Manning, Newton, etc... a true ELITE and franchise QB, you wouldnt trade it for all the picks in the draft.

It's hard to say that when you don't know what either pick we'll have is. Our pick could be top 5 for all we know. Not to mention we can trade 2 rounders, next years picks, etc. If there's a player we want, it's not out of the realm of possibilities that we would be able to go up and get him next year.

[Kenny]

"My guess" is that if your getting a new GM he most likely wants to go to a team that has draft picks and cap room to start his new job with.

White is a smart, coaches dream, kind of player. You don't get to wear 18 at LSU by chance.

Had to look it up, but cool story
http://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2015/08/08/became-lsu-tradition/31352635/

[cookie G]

Yeah that makes sense.

I just hope we'll have enough ammo to get into the top 5 to land of these quarterbacks.

I have no idea why people think they'll use a no. 1 pick on a QB next year.

That's not the way this team swings.

By December next year, KW will announce his retirement, or the FS McD brought in won't work out, or Ragland won't be fast enough to fit the scheme, or another of a few dozen variations on the same theme...

And then the usual ..."we have to fix the defense first", "defense wins championships", "we have greater needs" and "the QB class will be better next year" cliches being floated around. Hell, this is a team that used its past 5 draft picks to "fix" a defense that was a top 5 D in the league (that now seems eons ago).

The same scene in the same play has been going on wayyyy too long to think different.

[TacklingDummy]

The past 3 times the Bills had 2 first round picks they selected...

2009
Aaron Maybin
Eric Wood

2006
Donte Hitner
John McCargo

2004
Lee Evans
JP Losman

Now doesn't that just make you warm and fuzzy about having 2 first rounders?

Come to think of it has anyone ever hit on 2 first rounders in the same draft?

[Mahdi]

It is a solid pick at 27 to get White.

On top of that, in this draft the talent drop off from 10 to 27 is not that much. If the rumor was true that they were going to take Humphrey at 10 then I would much rather get the extra pick and take White at 27.

White seems to be the better athlete anyway with better ball skills.

[BertSquirtgum]

Great trade. If the Bills are somehow good next year and don't get a high pick. They can use this 1st round pick to move up and draft their quarterback of the future.

[jamze132]

Wish we had gotten Mahomes... or Watson... or Jamal Adams... or Ruben Foster. But whatevs... White is a solid player.

[streetkings01]

This draft is pretty deep at some key positions............I don't know how anyone can say it's a huge drop off in talent from the 10th pick to the 27th pick. Mel Kiper was just on Mike & Mike stating that there are guys that will be selected in the 2nd round that are better then the guys selected in the 1st round at their position.

[The Jokeman]

We missed out on Hooker and Howard in my I want with pick 10 scenario. Yet at the end of the day we weren't one player away from turning it around this year so think it was a solid move. I mean people think the Chiefs pick is going to be low this year, but look at last year if you were to tell me at this time last year the Panthers would be drafting in the top 10 of the this year's draft I would have never believed you.

[feldspar]

I think we could have/should have squeezed one more pick out of them. At least a 4th this year or a 3rd next.

Actually, the Bills got good value in this trade. Check out the NFL Draft Value Chart. Each pick is assigned a certain amount of points.

http://walterfootball.com/draftchart.php

Bills #10 pick = 1,300 points

Chiefs #27 pick = 680 points
Chiefs #91 pick = 136 points
Chiefs 2018 1st round pick = 590 points (at the very minimum)

So, do the math: 680 + 136 + 590 = 1,406

Instead of picking at #10 (with a value of 1,300), the Bills traded down and got 1,406 points of value at the very minimum.

So even if the Chiefs go on to win the Super Bowl and the Bills get the last pick in the 1st round next year, they still got more value than the Chiefs in this trade. Why? Because 1,406 > 1,300. Something tells me the Chiefs won't win the Super Bowl this year, so I'd bet our value will be greater than that.

Which players get picked is a separate mater entirely...but now we have three picks instead of one.

[Jry44]

We were essentially able to drop down 17 spots and...

* Get a rock solid player that replaces our #1 corner
* Add another player in the 3rd that will contribute this year
* Add an additional 1st rounder next year to move for a franchise QB if needed, or fill in more holes.

This was a no brainer. Word is that they were set to pick Lattimore if they stayed at 10, so getting a player that some ranked just behind him at that position while adding another potential starter this season in the process is huge for as many holes as this team has. You have to make that deal.

[phil3782]

I really like the trade a lot. This team needs so much that getting two more picks can be huge. I feel mixed about the pick of White. He sounds like a solid prospect in a position of need but feel that this draft if deep in solid DBs. I was kind of hoping that they would drafted one of the OTs or even Dalvin Cook. For some reason the thought of Shady and Cook would have been really cool to have.

[daryls61]

Compensation was fine. The 3rd is nice as that could be a starter. We could come out with 4 starters this year 1, 2 and 2-3's.

We might have got a 4th and 7th instead of a 3rd but Bills are probably thinking starter.

[Historian]

We were essentially able to drop down 17 spots and...

* Get a rock solid player that replaces our #1 corner
* Add another player in the 3rd that will contribute this year
* Add an additional 1st rounder next year to move for a franchise QB if needed, or fill in more holes.

This was a no brainer. Word is that they were set to pick Lattimore if they stayed at 10, so getting a player that some ranked just behind him at that position while adding another potential starter this season in the process is huge for as many holes as this team has. You have to make that deal.

And according to the talking heads he's a great punt returner too.

[kgun12]

I think we could have/should have squeezed one more pick out of them. At least a 4th this year or a 3rd next.

Bills 10th = 1300
KC's 27th = 680
= 620
KC's 3rd = 310

At worst in the Chiefs win the SB they 32nd pick is worth 590 so we won the trade!

As far as White's pick, I think they really thought Peppers would be there but they are REALLY happy with White!

[Jry44]

And according to the talking heads he's a great punt returner too.

Another need.

[Buffalogic]

Great move by whoever was in charge of it. We are going to trade up next year for USC Sam.

[TacklingDummy]

Bills 10th = 1300
KC's 27th = 680
= 620
KC's 3rd = 310

At worst in the Chiefs win the SB they 32nd pick is worth 590 so we won the trade!

As far as White's pick, I think they really thought Peppers would be there but they are REALLY happy with White!

I don't care about point value. Only way you win the trade is if the players you select with those picks work out. If you are drafting someone like John McCargo I wouldn't consider that a win.

If Mahoomes becomes a franchise QB you lost, big time.

[kgun12]

Meanwhile we had to watch the Jets walk away with Jamal Adams.

There were only 14-15 players that had 1st round grades in this draft and as far as having to watch the Jets comment, really dumb even if we stayed at 10 we couldn't have stopped that.

Besides it wouldn't matter who they picked you and several others wouldn't have been happy.

[sukie]

I loved the trade. Extra picks and a player that won't have top 10 pick pressure on him.

BTW where did our 4th round pick go?

[The Jokeman]

I loved the trade. Extra picks and a player that won't have top 10 pick pressure on him.

BTW where did our 4th round pick go?

It went to the Bears last year when we moved up to get Ragland.

[feldspar]

BTW where did our 4th round pick go?

We spent that to trade up for Reggie Ragland last year.

[sukie]

It went to the Bears last year when we moved up to get Ragland.

Thanks... I forgot.

[The Jokeman]

I don't care about point value. Only way you win the trade is if the players you select with those picks work out. If you are drafting someone like John McCargo I wouldn't consider that a win.

If Mahoomes becomes a franchise QB you lost, big time.

Unless we get a better franchise QB with KC's 2018 first rounder.

[feldspar]

I don't care about point value. Only way you win the trade is if the players you select with those picks work out. If you are drafting someone like John McCargo I wouldn't consider that a win.

If Mahoomes becomes a franchise QB you lost, big time.

Lol, maybe you could put a point value system on your level of regret or elation you need to experience later

[Historian]

Yea, come on TD.

I'm the first one to **** on these guys when they screw up, but let's give credit where credit is due.

Even if it is the blind squirrel or broken clock scenario.

[kgun12]

I don't care about point value. Only way you win the trade is if the players you select with those picks work out. If you are drafting someone like John McCargo I wouldn't consider that a win.

If Mahoomes becomes a franchise QB you lost, big time.

That's a big if, by ALL accounts from the "experts" there wasn't a starting QB in this draft. Mahoomes has a big arm, so what.

[Bill Cody]

Conceptually I like the move. The history of the draft says more picks = better results in the long run, particularly for a team like the Bills that needs to add talent. But obviously it comes down to what we do with the picks. I had my eye on Marshon Lattimore and he was available so that's the obvious comparison right out of the blocks. If Lattimore turns out to be an all pro and White is JAG then we had better absolutely nail the other two picks. If those guys turn out to be similar players we'll probably win the deal from that standpoint. The other guy that we'll need to keep an eye on is the guy KC traded up to get, Mahomes. I liked him but I though he was more of a 2nd round guy but obviously his performance post season has shot his stock way up. If he turns out to be a franchise signal caller KC won't regret what they paid for a minute and we'll wish we had taken him ourselves.

But I said before the draft my first choice was a trade down so tough for me to dump on the move, especially since we appear to have not taken a bust which is nice and refreshing. If we grab a steal with that 3rd rounder I think everyone will fell a little better about this no matter what your thoughts are now. So let's wait and see.

[TacklingDummy]

That's a big if, by ALL accounts from the "experts" there wasn't a starting QB in this draft. Mahoomes has a big arm, so what.

I don't want any QB in this draft.

All I'm saying is the point value thing is stupid. Trading down is stupid. Losers trade down.

[Historian]

Trading down is stupid. Losers trade down.

New England does it every year.

[feldspar]

Losers trade down.

New England has traded down and stockpiled picks WAY more than any other team I can think of offhand. Belichick is famous for that, among other things. What he's not famous for is losing...

[LarryBoy]

I get tired of hearing "Andy Reid" is smarter then we are...yea maybe however many "smarter" people wanted Ryan Leaf...

In the end its all a crapshoot...

[Joe Fo Sho]

I don't want any QB in this draft.

All I'm saying is the point value thing is stupid. Trading down is stupid. Losers trade down.

Trading down is not necessarily stupid. If losers trade down, then do winners trade up? Did we win the Watkins trade? Or the Losman Trade?

Looking at each trade objectively without making blanket statements is probably the right thing to do.

[psubills62]

It doesn't quite sit right with me. I get that the point values work out, but still feels like - based on other trades and the value that was sitting there - we could have gotten more for it. I also didn't want to trade that far down, so we could still get a good prospect like Malik Hooker (he's been my guy, but using as an example for now).

[Joe Fo Sho]

New England has traded down and stockpiled picks WAY more than any other team I can think of offhand. Belichick is famous for that, among other things. What he's not famous for is losing...

Recently, Cleveland has done the best job of acquiring draft picks. They've yet to see any improvement from it, though. I'm rooting for them, it's the biggest and most drastic rebuild I've ever seen. Time will tell.

[Bill Cody]

Trading down is stupid. Losers trade down.

well then San Francisco must be a bunch of idiots. They moved down 1 slot, took the player they were targeting anyway and picked up a 3rd and a 4th this year and a 3rd next year. How dumb is that?

[kgun12]

I don't want any QB in this draft.

All I'm saying is the point value thing is stupid. Trading down is stupid. Losers trade down.

I agree on the QB but not the trade down comment. Everyone on this site who hates everything about what the Bills do ALWAYS talk about the greatness of the Pats and they have built the greatest franchise ever moving down and accumulating picks.

[kgun12]

Cleveland did a great job of moving down and stock piling pick and on paper with their stock pile have had a fantastic draft! Even if the don't have another pick so far they are winning!

[TacklingDummy]

New England does it every year.

Actually NE trades up in the 1st round more than it trades down.

2001: Stayed and drafted Richard Seymour
2002: Traded up with Washington and drafted Daniel Graham
2003: Some how got Balt. pick, ahead of their own, drafted Vince Wolfork
2004: Traded up with Washington and drafted Ty Warren
2005: Stayd put, Logn Mankins
2006: stayed put, Lawrence Maroney
2007: Traded up with Seattle, drafted Brandon Merriweather, other pick Traded to SF who took Joe Staley
2008: Traded up with NO and drafted Jerod Mayo, other pick Forfieted for Spygate
2009: Traded back twice, Baltimore selected Michael Oher, GB selected Clay Matthews
2010: Not sure what went on here, all I know the trades turned into Denver D. Thomas, Dallas Dez Bryant, NE Devon McCourty and Rob Gronkowski
2011: Traded Richard Seymour for Oaklands 1st, traded their own first for NO 2nd and 1st
2012: Traded up twice, once with Cincy (Chandler Jones) and with Denver (Donte Hightower)
2013: Traded back
2014: stayed
2015: stayed
2016: Forfited
2017: Traded for Cooks

Whatever NE does turns to gold for all involved. I hate (jealous) them.

[Jry44]

New England does it every year.

So does Seattle.

If winning Super Bowls makes us a loser, than I'm all in!

[TacklingDummy]

well then San Francisco must be a bunch of idiots. They moved down 1 slot, took the player they were targeting anyway and picked up a 3rd and a 4th this year and a 3rd next year. How dumb is that?

Well that's because the Bears are just as dysfunctional as the Bills.

[TacklingDummy]

New England does it every year.

Wrong


Actually NE trades up in the 1st round more than it trades down.

2001: Stayed and drafted Richard Seymour
2002: Traded up with Washington and drafted Daniel Graham
2003: Some how got Balt. pick, ahead of their own, drafted Vince Wolfork
2004: Traded up with Washington and drafted Ty Warren
2005: Stayd put, Logn Mankins
2006: stayed put, Lawrence Maroney
2007: Traded up with Seattle, drafted Brandon Merriweather, other pick Traded to SF who took Joe Staley
2008: Traded up with NO and drafted Jerod Mayo, other pick Forfieted for Spygate
2009: Traded back twice, Baltimore selected Michael Oher, GB selected Clay Matthews
2010: Not sure what went on here, all I know the trades turned into Denver D. Thomas, Dallas Dez Bryant, NE Devon McCourty and Rob Gronkowski
2011: Traded Richard Seymour for Oaklands 1st, traded their own first for NO 2nd and 1st
2012: Traded up twice, once with Cincy (Chandler Jones) and with Denver (Donte Hightower)
2013: Traded back
2014: stayed
2015: stayed
2016: Forfited
2017: Traded for Cooks

Whatever NE does turns to gold for all involved. I hate (jealous) them.

[sukie]

Under Bill Bellicheat...





15 first round picks
23 second round picks
20 third round picks
24 fourth round picks
14 fifth round picks
27 sixth round picks
30 seventh round picks

Under Bill B... There was obviously some trading going on to stockpile that number of picks. The Ppatriots may not deal alot in the first but boy they sure have alot of picks in later rounds.

[Ed]

I like the trade. Getting an extra first next year is big. Drafting White isn't that exciting, but it's a solid pick. And if it's true that the Bills would have drafted CB Marlon Humphrey had the stayed at #10, then I love the trade even more. I would have been pretty annoyed with Humphrey at #10.

[psubills62]

NE has much more trading history than just the first round. Believe they have traded a second rounder straight up for a first the next year (want to say it was with Dallas?).

[psubills62]

I find it odd how people condemn in generalities. Trading up has been used by both losing teams and winning teams. Trading down has been used by both losing teams and winning teams. Both losing teams and winning teams have made "cute" picks that are considered reaches (GB and NYG come to mind). Both losing teams and winning teams have made picks that are the general consensus best players on the board.

[k-oneputt]

You can't compare to New Eng. They have a lot of leeway with trading due to the fact they have the franchise qb in place. Same thing with Seattle now.

I would of stayed at #10 and took Mahomes myself and started grooming him for the Bills, but if your dead set on taking a cb at 10 then it was a good trade since I don't see much difference between White or Lattimore.

[djjimkelly]

i love the trade this is setting us up to have insane ammunition for the 2018 draft where we get our next franchise qb

now tyrod go and win 3 games this year please

[Buddo]

My first impressions were that we didn't get enough from the Chiefs. I still think that.

The trade value thing is very dubious, as in the past, a future pick, was deemed to be equal to one round lower, hence the 1st round pick next year, has 'value' equal to a low 2nd rounder this year. That means that the total values are KC 1300, Bills 1126. Using that rationale, we got burned.

It does appear, however, that the 'weighting' on future picks, has changed somewhat, although for the life of me I don't know why, and I've seen alternative charts that give a future pick, roughly the value of half way through the round it is in. That just seems like a random guess to me, especially as a team like KC, simply isn't going to be picking in the top half of next years draft. When did the Patsies last have a pick in the first round below 20, that wasn't traded for?

Ultimately, the relative 'values' of the trade, are defined by how much you rate the future 1st pick,and imho, it shouldn't be by as much as some believe.

To move up so far, KC should have been paying more of a 'premium' imho, and an extra 4th or 5th this year, seems much more like what I would have expected, if I was doing the deal.

The cynic in me questions if our new HC was prepared to take the deal as offered, rather than stick it out for more, due to the fact that he was dealing with his mentor.

Having said all that, at the end of the day, I think we needed to get an extra pick in this draft, as it is reasonably rich in a couple of areas I feel we are lacking, notably DB, WR, and now not forgetting RB. I'm not especially saying it was a bad deal, per se, just that we should have got a bit more out of it.

In respect of the actual pick, I'm glad we didn't take a CB at 10, but got a guy who will likely suit us just as well, at 27. Schematically, it makes sense, as you aren't going to be using the talent that the #10 has, to its best advantage in a base zone D secondary.

I would also say that I don't consider taking a CB, as simply 'spinning wheels'. We aren't going to be prepared to pay top $ for CBs who are 'only' going to be playing zone coverages, which is, in part, why Gilmore was let go (tackling being another aspect of that, imho), so taking a quality CB every few years, is probably the best way forward, to keep a good secondary going, without being stung by big cap hits.

[YardRat]

Good post ^

[Canadian'eh!]

i thought trading down to gain 2 extra picks including another 1st next year was smart. however, with Lattimore on the board i might have just drafted him.

But my only gripe was that they moved back too far. Had they gotten the same deal and only gone back 5-10 spots it's an A+. For 17 spots, it feels like a A-.

I also preferred gambling on Foster at 27. They need Home Runs.

[Figster]

Filled a top team need with an imediate impact player replacing GIlmore which in turn freed up a nice chunk of change. Kids durable, good tackler, shown good leadership abilities, exactly the kind of man you want to build a young team around. So we get the player, a 3rd round draft choice this year, and a 1st round draft choice in next years draft giving the Bills big bargaining capabilities.

if it turns out to be a better draft class next year per team needs, icing on the cake.

Well done Buffalo... :horror: