nate peterman

[djjimkelly]

is my new favorite bills QB

officially

[Luisito23]

Could surprise and should easily jump ahead of Cardale.

[Historian]

Don't know much about him, but his clips from Pitt looked impressive.

[djjimkelly]

Could surprise and should easily jump ahead of Cardale.


i think this a message that cardele probably wont make it out of camp

[Albany,n.y.]

Clearly an indication that the new coaches don't think much of Cardale.

I found this interesting article on Peterman-sounds a lot like Tim Tebow off the field unless he un-found religion in college: http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/2012-01-14/story/states-top-quarterback-prospect-had-inspiration-tim-tebow

[trapezeus]

I like this pick. Develop a solid number 2 with chance for more. And if we have to draft a qb high next year, at least we start this guy and let's the first round pick get a year to develop.

And it thankfully keeps us away from chad kelly

[The Jokeman]

He's the QB I've wanted all along. Good value in Round 5 as thought he be a 3rd Rounder.

[Historian]

Really Joker?

Do you watch a lot of Pitt?

[swiper]

Not a fan. He got the most playing time of any QB in the Senior Bowl and couldn't win the game for his team. His ceiling is Josh McNown. Maybe Fitzpatrick.

Would have taken Chad Kelly over this guy.

[swiper]

I think Whaley did this just so people would get off his back.

[Albany,n.y.]

I think Whaley did this just so people would get off his back.

Whaley's been bound & gagged in the closet of McDermott's office all day.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Not a fan. He got the most playing time of any QB in the Senior Bowl and couldn't win the game for his team. His ceiling is Josh McNown. Maybe Fitzpatrick.

Would have taken Chad Kelly over this guy.

He did win the game for his team vs Clemson the national champs. Clutch game

[feldspar]

Here's the whole whole video of Peterman at Gruden's QB Camp...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=PU0nkoPb2Fk

[djjimkelly]

the kid has an MBA that impresses me

so he definitely has leadership skills

[HAMMER]

Excellent pick. If nothing else it secures our backup spot for 4 years.

[justasportsfan]

Would rather have had Kelly

[Historian]

He may be available after the draft, but the more I think about it, the more I realize he just isn't a McD type of player.

My guess is that McD took Jimbo to dinner to tell him as much.

[The Jokeman]

Really Joker?

Do you watch a lot of Pitt?
I read a lot on him and watched his stuff after Senior Bowl week. He just seems to have good intangibles which seeing the Bills fail so many times with great athletic types make me question how to evaluate things.

[justasportsfan]

He may be available after the draft, but the more I think about it, the more I realize he just isn't a McD type of player.

My guess is that McD took Jimbo to dinner to tell him as much.
If he goes undrafted I hope the bills try to get him but I doubt hed want to come here anymore after the bills drafted Peterman. Im looking for a homerun qb than just a back up qb.

I read about his baggage but I wouldve taken my chances

[alohabillsfan]

The Pac-12 Conference's leading passer threw for 165 yards on 11-of-16 passing, including a 39-yard touchdown strike on a well-thrown fade to Texas A&M's Josh Reynolds.

Nate Peterman of Pittsburgh had a similarly strong performance for the North in the showcase game for senior NFL prospects that actually featured late drama. Peterman fired a 6-yard scoring pass to East Carolina's Zay Jones with 1:51 left but the North went for two points and a potential lead., Well... sure , it's his s fault... CLOWN

[Night Train]

He was the ONLY QB in this draft I had any interest in. Smart and pro ready.

Of course he needs work but for the 2nd pick in Round 5, this is a smart throw of the dice. 5 TD's and zero INT's in the upset of Clemson. His team had a bad D and he won games all by himself.

Very happy. Screw Chad Kelly.

[kgun12]

In the thread about QB's he was my #1 out of that group!

[JoeMama]

Clearly an indication that the new coaches don't think much of Cardale.

I found this interesting article on Peterman-sounds a lot like Tim Tebow off the field unless he un-found religion in college: http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/2012-01-14/story/states-top-quarterback-prospect-had-inspiration-tim-tebow

Yeah he's from the same county as Tebow. St Johns, FL.

Peterman went to my sister's high school (Bartram Trail), same one Tebow was supposed to attend but didn't (because they wouldn't promise him the starting QB position as a freshman).

Peterman's a good kid.

[Night Train]

“Having some tough skin as a quarterback is necessary. Nothing is going to faze your confidence. Nothing has for me. That's one of the ultimate attributes and traits a quarterback needs." - Nathan Peterman, Combine

[Night Train]

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/sean-gentille/2017/01/26/nate-peterman-nfl-draft-senior-bowl-top-qb-prospects/stories/201701260169

[Night Train]

<ins data-ad-format="auto" class="adsbygoogle" data-ad-client="ca-pub-6207129773812374" data-adsbygoogle-status="done" style="margin: 10px auto 15px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; background-color: transparent; height: 60px;">Who Has The Potential To Be The Best QB In The Draft</ins>
Surprisingly Kiper was very optimistic about Nate Peterman from Pittsburgh. According to Kiper, Petterman has the makeup to be the best quarterback in the draft. That might be surprising to people who thought Deshaun Watson or Mitch Trubiski was the best quarterback prospects in the draft. Peterman has elite arm strength and great pocket awareness that will allow him to be a teams starting quarterback. “I like him. He made me a believer when I watched him against Clemson. I do want to see him throw live and get a feel for how the ball comes out. I never saw him in person and you can’t get a feel for that stuff on tape.” – Mel Kiper
Will be very interesting to see which teams decides to select Nate Peterman!

[TacklingDummy]

Hopefully he turns into the next Tom Brady. No big deal if he doesn't. It was a garbage 5th round pick. Maybe it will turn to gold.

[swiper]

Pitt's Nathan Peterman came into this contest after being considered the best quarterback prospect during the practice week. Peterman completed 16 of 23 passes for 153 yards and a touchdown. He nearly led a comeback victory but fell short when his two-point-attempt pass was intercepted in the end zone.

The Tennessee transfer didn't display the command or willingness to threaten all the areas of the field during his performance.

The quarterback who beat Peterman to start at Tennessee, Josh Dobbs, looked comfortable in the Browns' offensive scheme, but multiple mistakes and turnovers ended his drives.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2689789-senior-bowl-2017-top-takeaways-from-saturdays-game

John Fox and staff who coached Peterman in that game took Trubiski.

[Ingtar33]

meh

nothing really wow'ed me when I looked him up. He tucks and runs too fast, and he's not particularly good at it. He doesn't throw well with a guy in his face either, and he gets uncomfortable without a big pocket around him. He feels pressure ok. He's accurate as all heck. But his arm strength isn't there, and it shows. he probably hit his ceiling at pitt. doesn't feel like there is a lot of room to get better to me.

Though to be honest, I probably said the same thing about Brady.

[djjimkelly]

peterman will backup darnold,allen or rosen come next year for the next 10

[TigerJ]

I have a hard time seeing the Bills with both C. Jones and Peterman on the 53 man roster, backing up Tyrod. I think the Bills will keep Yates as a veteran presence. I would love to see what a developed Cardale Jones can do, but the way things look, Peterman seems to have a skill set that lines up better with what Rick Dennison will want to do. His arm is average, but technically he does a lot of things right. I wouldn't be surprised if Buffalo tries to feel out the trade market for Cardale. I would be surprised if they get anything for him. In this situation, other teams tend to circle like vultures waiting for the player to get cut, rather than trying to swing a deal that means losing even a late round draft pick.

[psubills62]

I seem to have accidentally deleted my post in mobile. I agree he doesn't have much upside. But I am fine with the pick. He is going to be a backup and I think he could do well as a game manager. Honestly don't care much if he didn't do well in the Senior Bowl.

[Herd bull]

Here's the whole whole video of Peterman at Gruden's QB Camp...
Good stuff, man!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=PU0nkoPb2Fk

- - - Updated - - -

Good stuff man!

[BillsImpossible]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/gamelog/_/id/2972236/type/college/nathan-peterman

76-61 win against Syracuse.

Sounds like a basketball game score.

[Klaista2k]

meh

nothing really wow'ed me when I looked him up. He tucks and runs too fast, and he's not particularly good at it. He doesn't throw well with a guy in his face either, and he gets uncomfortable without a big pocket around him. He feels pressure ok. He's accurate as all heck. But his arm strength isn't there, and it shows. he probably hit his ceiling at pitt. doesn't feel like there is a lot of room to get better to me.

Though to be honest, I probably said the same thing about Brady.

I agree with your assessment.

Wasn't really wowed by him.

[Turf]

Reminds me of Reich.

[sahlensguy]

meh

nothing really wow'ed me when I looked him up. He tucks and runs too fast, and he's not particularly good at it. He doesn't throw well with a guy in his face either, and he gets uncomfortable without a big pocket around him. He feels pressure ok. He's accurate as all heck. But his arm strength isn't there, and it shows. he probably hit his ceiling at pitt. doesn't feel like there is a lot of room to get better to me.

Though to be honest, I probably said the same thing about Brady.

Peterman was was in his third offense at Pitt. There wasn't a ton of snaps to get comfortable. It might be a bit short sighted to say that he hit his ceiling there.

[sahlensguy]

Dude has his MBA.

Something tells me he won't have a lot in common with Cardale.

[Manwiththeplan]

<ins data-ad-format="auto" class="adsbygoogle" data-ad-client="ca-pub-6207129773812374" data-adsbygoogle-status="done" style="margin: 10px auto 15px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; display: block; background-color: transparent; height: 60px;">Who Has The Potential To Be The Best QB In The Draft</ins>
Surprisingly Kiper was very optimistic about Nate Peterman from Pittsburgh. According to Kiper, Petterman has the makeup to be the best quarterback in the draft. That might be surprising to people who thought Deshaun Watson or Mitch Trubiski was the best quarterback prospects in the draft. Peterman has elite arm strength and great pocket awareness that will allow him to be a teams starting quarterback. “I like him. He made me a believer when I watched him against Clemson. I do want to see him throw live and get a feel for how the ball comes out. I never saw him in person and you can’t get a feel for that stuff on tape.” – Mel Kiper
Will be very interesting to see which teams decides to select Nate Peterman!




huh.... Not having elite arm strength is the one knock on him.

[alohabillsfan]

But what is the size of his hands. 😂

[sahlensguy]

But what is the size of his hands. 😂

10".

[X-Era]

The more I watch of him the more I like.

He's got a chance to be a solid starter

[sahlensguy]

The more I watch of him the more I like.

He's got a chance to be a solid starter

Yep. A solid backup, at least. Great value for a 5th round pic.

[K-Gun]

His football IQ, accuracy and ability to see the whole field make him a great option for the a spread it around west coast offense. If he reaches his full potential, he's the kind of QB you build a #1 D around and think you can win... If he doesn't come through on the field, you have an MBA QB as your #2 with the clipboard on the sidelines.

[sudzy]

When Peterman was picked, it was clear that Whaley wasn't in charge of the draft. He doesn't fit the Whaley QB mold. He doesn't have a rocket for an arm and he can count above ten.

[YardRat]

Cardale finished his degree this spring. Just sayin'...

[DraftBoy]

Petermen is right pick for the system. He's a quick decision guy who is extremely accurate and gets the ball out in a hurry. His arm strength isn't going to wow you but he can put the ball out there. The biggest question for him is can he adjust to the speed at the NFL and can he put enough zip on the ball to fit it into the tight windows over the middle. If he proves those two things then he could become a starter.

[class_of_2012]

Could surprise and should easily jump ahead of Cardale.

No doubt! He is McDermott's "guy", for now. Cardale is Whaley's guy.

The way I see it:

TT starts
TJ Yates is the veteran backup, similar to Matt Cassel
Peterman is the third-stringer, sitting on the bench for a year, developing.

Cardale is out, unless he shows a lot during TC. Otherwise we trade him, cut him, or risk putting him on the PS.

[Night Train]

I'll just like going to Fisher camp and not looking up to see Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassel or E.J. Manuel taking snaps.

[BertSquirtgum]

I think he's going to beat out Tyrod by next year.

[YardRat]

I'll just like going to Fisher camp and not looking up to see Kevin Kolb, Matt Cassel or E.J. Manuel taking snaps.

TJ Yates and Cardale Jones are still going to be there.

[DraftBoy]

TJ Yates and Cardale Jones are still going to be there.

What's the problem with Cardale?

[poplarbluffman]

What's the problem with Cardale?


zero big time talent...from St Louis and the 1st time I watched Peterman I thought of Kurt Warner....best passer in the draft at throwing into tight windows and with the willingness/guts to try..having 2 good young qb's doesn't suck

[BillsImpossible]

Here's the whole whole video of Peterman at Gruden's QB Camp...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=PU0nkoPb2Fk

On a cold rainy Sunday, this video is well worth watching. Gets really good about the halfway point.

Peterman is jacked, he's not a doughboy. The ending of Gruden's interview with Peterman was interesting.

Shows a play that Peterman audibles out of 3 times.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/nathan-peterman-1/gamelog/

Nathan Peterman Vs. Clemson complete game *without audio*

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6thWRVxAUSc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peterman will definitely challenge Cardale Jones.

Will Peterman challenge Tyrod Taylor in 2017?

That depends upon how quickly each player is able to understand and execute RD's offense.

I think Peterman was the quarterback McDermott wanted most.

He doesn't have the arm strength of EJ Manuel. I can deal with that.

[Cali512]

I think he is an exact replica if Simien

[djjimkelly]

Cardale finished his degree this spring. Just sayin'...

good for him he will need it as his nfl career is near its end

- - - Updated - - -


I think he's going to beat out Tyrod by next year.

you sure tyrod is gonna be here in 2018

[Topas]

... He doesn't have the arm strength of EJ Manuel. I can deal with that.

Yeah, that means his passes won't make it to the hospitality tent. That's ok.

And finally the Bills drafted a QB with accuracy as strength and arm strength as weakness. Finally they did not mix that the false way around.

[TigerJ]

I've seen prognostications of Peterman's ceiling ranging from serviceable backup to solid starter - eventually. I think he fits what Dennison is going to try and do, and he should be productive. That's about the best you could ever hope for from a fifth round pick.

[swiper]

What's the problem with Cardale?

This....

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_PSh3ZXoAEa4Vq.jpg:small

He makes Leodis McElvin sound like a Nobel Laureate.

[BertSquirtgum]

good for him he will need it as his nfl career is near its end

- - - Updated - - -



you sure tyrod is gonna be here in 2018
I hope not.

[WagonCircler]

Cardale finished his degree this spring. Just sayin'...

From Ohio State? That's like high school for a regular person. Graduating from Ohio State as an athlete? Easier than ordering from Amazon.

[WagonCircler]

GREAT video. This kid is the polar opposite of Doug Whaley's QBs.

Tremendous grasp of the Offense, great ability to read and react with precision, and capable of running any play you can draw up.

I'll take that all day long and twice on Sunday.

[JoeMama]

GREAT video. This kid is the polar opposite of Doug Whaley's QBs.

Tremendous grasp of the Offense, great ability to read and react with precision, and capable of running any play you can draw up.

I'll take that all day long and twice on Sunday.

A smart QB that can read defenses and make tight throws?

I'm still in shock we drafted a guy like that. It's so anti-Buffalo to draft a cerebral precision passer.

I love the pick. May he rise quickly and usurp Tyrod Taylor.

[Bill Cody]

meh

nothing really wow'ed me when I looked him up. He tucks and runs too fast, and he's not particularly good at it. He doesn't throw well with a guy in his face either, and he gets uncomfortable without a big pocket around him. He feels pressure ok. He's accurate as all heck. But his arm strength isn't there, and it shows. he probably hit his ceiling at pitt. doesn't feel like there is a lot of room to get better to me.

Though to be honest, I probably said the same thing about Brady.

It's interesting you mention Brady. When he came into the league he pretty much had no deep ball to speak of. Very accurate on short throws and made quick decisions but he'd really wind up to throw deep and he just didn't hit the throws. If you look back at that 2001 season most of his throws were 5 yards or less but he got the ball out in 2 seconds. Gradually he developed a deep throw, his accuracy improved and he developed more arm strength by getting physically stronger. I'm not suggesting Peterman is likely to go down that path but it's possible. As has been pointed out it's better to have the accurate guy that processes defenses quickly than have the big arm without accuracy and that can't read a D. We've kind of covered that route.

When I saw the trade down in the 1st I was like "whoa Doug Whaley ain't running this draft" but the Peterman pick really cemented that thought. If Whaley was in charge we'd be talking about Deshaun Watson in the first and I'd be scanning the web about gardening tips.

[Night Train]

From Ohio State? That's like high school for a regular person.

I picked Ohio St. over Cornell. Must admit I had a lot more fun in Columbus than Ithaca. Go figure.

34 years ago. Seems like yesterday, although my liver may differ..

[cookie G]

Peterman = Fitz, for better or worse.

Gets the ball out quickly,
Ball is always above the shoulders when he's in the pocket
scans the field
every pass thrown with the same velocity, as hard as he can and puts his whole body into each pass. No flicking the ball to a RB or on a short pass
has the same ability to make that ill advised red zone throw where you say, "What made you think you could get the ball past the DB who was standing in front of your reciever?"

[JoeMama]

Peterman = Fitz, for better or worse.

Gets the ball out quickly,
Ball is always above the shoulders when he's in the pocket
scans the field
every pass thrown with the same velocity, as hard as he can and puts his whole body into each pass. No flicking the ball to a RB or on a short pass
has the same ability to make that ill advised red zone throw where you say, "What made you think you could get the ball past the DB who was standing in front of your reciever?"

Give the kid a break.

If Peterman starts losing games in the final minutes with an ill-timed fumble or interception, that's when we'll know if he's Fitz 2.0.

Until then, I say the kid WILL be better than Fitz. I do not accept that his ceiling is that low.

[Bill Cody]

Give the kid a break.

If Peterman starts losing games in the final minutes with an ill-timed fumble or interception, that's when we'll know if he's Fitz 2.0.

Until then, I say the kid WILL be better than Fitz. I do not accept that his ceiling is that low.

You know what? Nobody knows what he's going to be. Fitz was a pretty damn good player for a street free agent. If you got a solid backup QB out of the 5th round you'd have to be pretty happy with that. Hitting the lottery that Peterman ends up as a competent starter or gasp an elite QB is just stuff we do as Bills fans because...why the hell not stranger things have happened and dammit we deserve a big break we really do. But anything more than competent backup is gravy based on his profile and where he was selected.

[cookie G]

Give the kid a break.

If Peterman starts losing games in the final minutes with an ill-timed fumble or interception, that's when we'll know if he's Fitz 2.0.

Until then, I say the kid WILL be better than Fitz. I do not accept that his ceiling is that low.

I could never truly hate Fitz, because I knew he was giving it his all and he was trying to win. After 3 years of Trent Edwards...who only cared about his completion percentage.

That's why I said, "for better or worse".

Put in Peterman's V-Tech and Miami games. They're on Youtube in the "Nathan Peterman vs. " section.

V-tech, a minute to go in the first half, close game, he scrambles..and fumbles at the Hokie's 10 yard line. Luckily, his offensive lineman recovered it 10 yards behind him. A little later in the game, still close...scrambles again in V-tech territory, another fumble. He had at least 2 ints dropped in the game. Depending on how the ball was rolling, it could have easily been a 4 turnover game for him.

Against Miami, 3rd Q. still less than 2 tds down. Marches Pitt to inside the 10. Then throws an INT with the db right in front of the receiver.

He's got some Fitz traits in him...a lot of them..both good and bad.

As a 5th rounder, he's not perfect. I don't think people should expect him to be.

[JoeMama]

I could never truly hate Fitz, because I knew he was giving it his all and he was trying to win. After 3 years of Trent Edwards...who only cared about his completion percentage.

Neither do I. He made the most of his somewhat limited skillset and scored a few paydays out of it. I'm happy for the guy.

I still wear my Fitzmagic shirt from time to time. He was a fun guy to root for, being an undrafted Ivy League egghead.


That's why I said, "for better or worse".

Put in Peterman's V-Tech and Miami games. They're on Youtube in the "Nathan Peterman vs. " section.

V-tech, a minute to go in the first half, close game, he scrambles..and fumbles at the Hokie's 10 yard line. Luckily, his offensive lineman recovered it 10 yards behind him. A little later in the game, still close...scrambles again in V-tech territory, another fumble. He had at least 2 ints dropped in the game. Depending on how the ball was rolling, it could have easily been a 4 turnover game for him.

Against Miami, 3rd Q. still less than 2 tds down. Marches Pitt to inside the 10. Then throws an INT with the db right in front of the receiver.

He's got some Fitz traits in him...a lot of them..both good and bad.

As a 5th rounder, he's not perfect. I don't think people should expect him to be.

I don't expect him to be perfect or a savior.

I just like what I see in him. His TD/INT ratio undermines the Miami and V-Tech games as evidence he's bad at protecting the ball.

Like I said, the only difference in thought here is I believe Peterman's ceiling is higher than Fitz's and I stand by that.

[YardRat]

I think his name should be Pete Natermen...it just sounds better.

[feldspar]

I think his name should be Pete Natermen...it just sounds better.

Name him Dick Peterman, and he could just as easily have gone into a different line of work...

You're grown enough to understand that, right?

[YardRat]

Name him Dick Peterman, and he could just as easily have gone into a different line of work...
You're grown enough to understand that, right?

Tell your mom I said 'hi'.

[BillsImpossible]

Peterman, Peterson or Peter Pan?

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/v3qzzjr5nrQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[psubills62]

From Ohio State? That's like high school for a regular person. Graduating from Ohio State as an athlete? Easier than ordering from Amazon.
I believe it was Adolphus Washington who said (when he committed OSU) that it was "impossible to fail" there with the support in place.

[WagonCircler]

I picked Ohio St. over Cornell. Must admit I had a lot more fun in Columbus than Ithaca. Go figure.

34 years ago. Seems like yesterday, although my liver may differ..

As a non-scholarship athlete (I'm guessing here), you likely had to actually go to class.

I'm thinking that's not the case for most of the Buckeye football players. (Another educated guess).

[Night Train]

As a non-scholarship athlete (I'm guessing here), you likely had to actually go to class.

I'm thinking that's not the case for most of the Buckeye football players. (Another educated guess).

True but they all had tutors and assigned times to spend with them. Earl Bruce was the coach back then and was no nonsense when it came to that.

Who knows what it's like in any program these days with the insane $ in these athletic programs. At least Jones got a degree. Could you see someone like McKelvin getting a degree ? I remember RB Gary Anderson of Arkansas and San Diego stated he never attended a class and couldn't read. Ronnie Harmon of Iowa, who we selected in Round 1 many years back by the Bills said he never went to class and failed everything.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I like the pick, as many here pointed out earlier, that he does not have the #1 criteria of a strong arm for every GM since Donahoe, maybe even earlier. I would prefer intelligence and accuracy on top of my list.

To say that he's a young Brady is also a far reach. Brady was driven, and had it figured out himself, and his arm strength worked out as well. There are many never figured out, and many never get their arm strength to the right level.

I'd this about him. Before he figures out in NFL, he will look really bad. So mental development is #1. If he truly figures out what's going on on Sundays, he can be a starter. But if he wants to take a step further. he'll need to develop his arm strength.

So far in Bills QB draft this century, none of them fully figured it out yet.

[JoeMama]

It's the rarest skill set on earth.

That's why there are only like 10-12 franchise QBs in the NFL at any given time.

[k-oneputt]

If I had to win a game tomorrow I would take Petermen over EJ and Cardale right now, with never playing in an NFL game.

[Night Train]

Perspective - he was pick 171 in this draft.

There is zero downside with this selection. QB's picked this low don't come with large expectations, no matter what we think.

[YardRat]

"Pete Naterman, Super Bowl MVP". It's a natural, I'm tellin' you.

[WagonCircler]

Ronnie Harmon of Iowa, who we selected in Round 1 many years back by the Bills said he never went to class and failed everything.

I knew Ronnie. He was an odd dude. I liked him though. I used hang out with him and Butch Rolle. They liked to go to the Ballet. :)

[k-oneputt]

I knew Ronnie. He was an odd dude. I liked him though. I used hang out with him and Butch Rolle. They liked to go to the Ballet. :)

Did he ever tell you why he fixed the 1986 Rose Bowl ?