The beginning of the end of Goodell.

[Turf]

Empty seats in NFL stadiums are beginning to be an embarrassment.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-nfl-is-seriously-concerned-with-empty-stadiums/ar-AArTqkb?li=BBnb7Kz

Many of us predicted it, and it's just started. I'm going to take it a step further and say if they don't fix the Television coverage, and if they ever lose fantasy football, the players will be back to scab contracts. The cord cutter generation is just starting to have its effect.

[OpIv37]

While I do think the empty stadiums out west are an issue, it's disingenuous to show a picture of the SF stadium at the start of a half. A lot of people are still stuck in food and pisser lines. And if that much of the stadium is baking in the sun while CA is suffering from record heat, it wouldn't surprise me if people stayed underneath in the shade for a bit. I've done it for baseball games in DC and Balt.

[Turf]

How many people in here legally watch the games. I'm guessing it's 60% or lower.

[Goobylal]

Reinstate the blackout rule. That will help fill stadiums.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

keep politics out of football. that will help too.
a lot of people (myself included) watch football to get away from the endless political inundations. instead, we are bombarded with it watching espn and the games now in my opinion

[Cali512]

Actually I think the number one thing they need to do is allow players to talk **** and celebrate more. I honestly would only watch a NFL game love to watch the players getting in each others faces and celebrating during the games. Now that most of that is takin away, there is very little that you are missing when watching a game now

[imbondz]

How many people in here legally watch the games. I'm guessing it's 60% or lower.

I had the Titans game on tv cuz I live in Nashville but was watching the Bills game illegally on my phone. I thought it was a push since the NFL was still getting my tv viewing ratings.

[ICRockets]

I had the Titans game on tv cuz I live in Nashville but was watching the Bills game illegally on my phone. I thought it was a push since the NFL was still getting my tv viewing ratings.

Don't worry everybody, he didn't actually just admit to criminal activity. imbondz doesn't post his own material.

Welcome back, pathetic plagiarist!

[ublinkwescore]

I bought the game pass this season, and I stream live... though sometimes the links are garbage... so it can take a while to find a good link... but my football ritual for the next 3 weeks will be 3 tall cans, wake and bake through out the day, start a take n bake pizza at halftime and just finish decompressing from the week before going back on mondays...

- - - Updated - - -

And if the game is really ****ty, I cross my fingers for Peterman to get some reps.

[kishoph]

Actually I think the number one thing they need to do is allow players to talk **** and celebrate more. I honestly would only watch a NFL game love to watch the players getting in each others faces and celebrating during the games. Now that most of that is takin away, there is very little that you are missing when watching a game now


IMO allowing those things would just bring more of the 'look at me' attitude that today's players are full of. I can't stand to see a player run around and celebrate after some routine play. A little bit of "woofing" and celebrating could be good, but these players today would take it too far.

[Thurmal]

Moving two teams to LA was such a stupid decision, and everyone knew it but Goodell. They couldn't support two teams 20 years ago. Oakland's move to Las Vegas is not only revolting in regards to league history, but will also be a gigantic failure, mark my words.

And don't even get me started on the London games; which Goodell is clearly pushing in an effort to eventually move a team there. Hey, when you have an opportunity to tap a tepid (at best) market and create a league-wide logistical nightmare, you gotta take it!

[DraftBoy]

keep politics out of football. that will help too.
a lot of people (myself included) watch football to get away from the endless political inundations. instead, we are bombarded with it watching espn and the games now in my opinion

Honestly, I wish there was more athletes who were willing to put their thoughts and opinions out there on multiple topics. Many of these athletes are bright men and women who can be extremely articulate and thoughtful. Some may have opinions I agree with, some may have opinions I disagree with, but I think being able to see them as more than just a distraction would be better.

[MidnightVoice]

Empty seats in NFL stadiums are beginning to be an embarrassment.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/the-nfl-is-seriously-concerned-with-empty-stadiums/ar-AArTqkb?li=BBnb7Kz

Many of us predicted it, and it's just started. I'm going to take it a step further and say if they don't fix the Television coverage, and if they ever lose fantasy football, the players will be back to scab contracts. The cord cutter generation is just starting to have its effect.

I love this quote from the article:

That could lead to some teams being buried at the bottom of the league year after year and creating a cycle that leaves fans even less incentive to show up.

A team can have a sellout every week and still struggle with mediocrity - see The Bills :(

[kishoph]

Honestly, I wish there was more athletes who were willing to put their thoughts and opinions out there on multiple topics. Many of these athletes are bright men and women who can be extremely articulate and thoughtful. Some may have opinions I agree with, some may have opinions I disagree with, but I think being able to see them as more than just a distraction would be better.

That's all fine, but there are different avenues to take these things, other than disrespecting something so many people hold dearly (the anthem). These players have the funds and media outlets to voice their opinions in. I can't help but think that the majority of them just want the attention, not for any cause other than their selfish egos.

[Historian]

I saw a tweet yesterday, stating that the Chargers management is sending a free authentic Rivers jersey to every season ticket holder for every seat they own.

I do believe Ralph Wilson just rolled over in his grave.

[Forward_Lateral]

I don't have one bit of guilt for watching NFL games streamed for free. It's a crock of **** how much they charge to watch a product that makes billions of dollars already.

[Goobylal]

Moving two teams to LA was such a stupid decision, and everyone knew it but Goodell. They couldn't support two teams 20 years ago. Oakland's move to Las Vegas is not only revolting in regards to league history, but will also be a gigantic failure, mark my words.

And don't even get me started on the London games; which Goodell is clearly pushing in an effort to eventually move a team there. Hey, when you have an opportunity to tap a tepid (at best) market and create a league-wide logistical nightmare, you gotta take it!

Goodell does the owners' bidding. It's the owners who want teams in LA.

And I use a slingbox connected in my mom's house in Rochester to see Bills game where I am. Works well.

[Thurmal]

Honestly, I wish there was more athletes who were willing to put their thoughts and opinions out there on multiple topics. Many of these athletes are bright men and women who can be extremely articulate and thoughtful.
You need to replace "many" with "a handful." Most of them parrot nonsense they read on Twitter. The most opinionated athlete now, Colin Kaepernick, is so bright that he decried American oppression while obliviously wearing a Fidel Castro shirt and then subsequently failed to vote in the Presidential election.

[OpIv37]

keep politics out of football. that will help too.
a lot of people (myself included) watch football to get away from the endless political inundations. instead, we are bombarded with it watching espn and the games now in my opinion

ESPN maybe, but please explain to me how you are "bombarded" with politics during the game. The anthem is over before the game even starts.

[kingJofNYC]

How many people in here legally watch the games. I'm guessing it's 60% or lower.
I've paid the last three years, but watch them through a VPN because the NFL is committed to ****ing over fans through exclusive deals.

For the last 3 years I've purchased international NFL Gamepass, it was originally $115 or $120 (forget exactly), you can use a US credit card, you just need to mask yourself as being outside the country when purchasing. I buy the Gamepass, flick on the mask on Sundays and watch the games live. It's the best way to watch, you get Redzone & NFL Network included, plus I have 2 Monitors and get quad boxes on both. NFL has caught on, international is now closer to $200/year, I think I paid $175 this season. But look at all the hoops you have to jump through. Stuck in the past.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

ESPN maybe, but please explain to me how you are "bombarded" with politics during the game. The anthem is over before the game even starts.

fine, let me rephrase. I do not care nor want to care about what some football player thinks about political issues. This is a huge turnoff for me and it is for many people. And yes, I am partly biased because I live in the heartland, am conservative and own a gun, etc.

I'm a surgeon. I've never walked into a patients recovery room after I took out their sigmoid colon or gallbladder and been like 'hey. I think Barack Obama is an ******* and Hillary Clinton is a crooked witch. Let's make America great again. Your surgery went fine by the way.'
Because no one is paying me to care what I think about **** like this, just like no one is paying these football players because of their incredible insight. In other words, shut the **** up and do your ****ing job!

[Skooby]

fine, let me rephrase. I do not care nor want to care about what some football player thinks about political issues. This is a huge turnoff for me and it is for many people. And yes, I am partly biased because I live in the heartland, am conservative and own a gun, etc.

I'm a surgeon. I've never walked into a patients recovery room after I took out their sigmoid colon or gallbladder and been like 'hey. I think Barack Obama is an ******* and Hillary Clinton is a crooked witch. Let's make America great again. Your surgery went fine by the way.'
Because no one is paying me to care what I think about **** like this, just like no one is paying these football players because of their incredible insight. In other words, shut the **** up and do your ****ing job!

Now this I can follow and agree with. I don't care about the player's clothes, what they drive or political views. Do your F-n job & get it done well, help the team win.

[ICRockets]

fine, let me rephrase. I do not care nor want to care about what some football player thinks about political issues. This is a huge turnoff for me and it is for many people. And yes, I am partly biased because I live in the heartland, am conservative and own a gun, etc.

I'm a surgeon. I've never walked into a patients recovery room after I took out their sigmoid colon or gallbladder and been like 'hey. I think Barack Obama is an ******* and Hillary Clinton is a crooked witch. Let's make America great again. Your surgery went fine by the way.'
Because no one is paying me to care what I think about **** like this, just like no one is paying these football players because of their incredible insight. In other words, shut the **** up and do your ****ing job!

This is not "not caring about" their political views. It is, in fact, caring DEEPLY about them. If you didn't care, then it wouldn't bother you if they expressed ones you don't agree with.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

This is not "not caring about" their political views. It is, in fact, caring DEEPLY about them. If you didn't care, then it wouldn't bother you if they expressed ones you don't agree with.


Wrong. Even if they agreed with me, I don't care. I don't watch them to listen to their opinions.

[ICRockets]

Wrong. Even if they agreed with me, I don't care. I don't watch them to listen to their opinions.

Be honest, when was the last time you heard somebody say something you agreed with and thought, "I wish they'd just shut the **** up" ?

[Homegrown]

I saw a tweet yesterday, stating that the Chargers management is sending a free authentic Rivers jersey to every season ticket holder for every seat they own.

I do believe Ralph Wilson just rolled over in his grave.

Bills 2017 seasons - $330 to $1,060

Chargers 2017 seasons - $700 to $3,750

"giving away" a $50 Rivers jersey is like Wegmans selling a case of Pepsi for $1.99 - lost leader baby ....

the cost of seasons & parking & beer & food at Chargers game makes the "give away" of a Made in China Rivers jersey the equivalent of 'hi-way robbery'

[swiper]

How many people in here legally watch the games. I'm guessing it's 60% or lower.

It's a 40 year plot by the NFL. They decided long ago that they would take free NFL off the networks and make people pay, one way or another, to see or listen to football. The union supports the scheme. Keep away.

- - - Updated - - -


Bills 2017 seasons - $330 to $1,060

Chargers 2017 seasons - $700 to $3,750

"giving away" a $50 Rivers jersey is like Wegmans selling a case of Pepsi for $1.99 - lost leader baby ....

the cost of seasons & parking & beer & food at Chargers game makes the "give away" of a Made in China Rivers jersey the equivalent of 'hi-way robbery'

It would help if Rivers ever found his true ceiling.

[kgun12]

You need to replace "many" with "a handful." Most of them parrot nonsense they read on Twitter. The most opinionated athlete now, Colin Kaepernick, is so bright that he decried American oppression while obliviously wearing a Fidel Castro shirt and then subsequently failed to vote in the Presidential election.

I agree 100% MOST of these guys are plain dumba$$es. I say shut up and play football, because if they weren't playing football for millions, most of these guys would be in jail or dead.

[YardRat]

How many season ticket holders do the Chargers actually have for their current 600 seat stadium? Twelve?

[DynaPaul]

I don't have one bit of guilt for watching NFL games streamed for free. It's a crock of **** how much they charge to watch a product that makes billions of dollars already.

And don't forget, they are a non-profit organization therefore watching all the games should be free.

[YardRat]

And don't forget, they are a non-profit organization therefore watching all the games should be free.

Didn't they give that up along with the tax exempt status last year?

[DraftBoy]

That's all fine, but there are different avenues to take these things, other than disrespecting something so many people hold dearly (the anthem). These players have the funds and media outlets to voice their opinions in. I can't help but think that the majority of them just want the attention, not for any cause other than their selfish egos.

Sure but to what effect? Kaepernick has made this issue a national talking point for over a year now and has inspired a handful of other players to also sit down or kneel. It's become such a strong statement that now sports broadcasts actively seek out those players who choose to express themselves in that way. Whether you like what Kaep did or not, it was extremely effective.

[DraftBoy]

Didn't they give that up along with the tax exempt status last year?

Yes.

[Lone Stranger]

Honestly, I wish there was more athletes who were willing to put their thoughts and opinions out there on multiple topics. Many of these athletes are bright men and women who can be extremely articulate and thoughtful. Some may have opinions I agree with, some may have opinions I disagree with, but I think being able to see them as more than just a distraction would be better.

I could care less what the present day athlete has to say. While a few are intelligent I find the vast majority to be limited in their conversational abilities. Beside do we really care what they have to say on pertinent issues?

[ICRockets]

I could care less what the present day athlete has to say. While a few are intelligent I find the vast majority to be limited in their conversational abilities. Beside do we really care what they have to say on pertinent issues?

If the issues are pertinent, why shouldn't we care what somebody who can express their thoughts eloquently (like, for example, Michael Bennett) has to say about it?

[Night Train]

Bills 2017 seasons - $330 to $1,060


Chargers are in a 27,000 seat soccer stadium. Still can't sell it out. 107 college teams have bigger stadiums, including UB here in Amherst.

[Generalissimus Gibby]

keep politics out of football. that will help too.
a lot of people (myself included) watch football to get away from the endless political inundations. instead, we are bombarded with it watching espn and the games now in my opinion

I think that the Kap thing's influence is vastly overstated. People don't care for football because at the games the food and beer and parking are overpriced, the games can be seen on your tv at home, and people are far more interested in player stats on their fantasy football rosters than they are in a single team. Also, the quality of the game has declined and really who wants to sit through a three hour commercial fest?

[OpIv37]

fine, let me rephrase. I do not care nor want to care about what some football player thinks about political issues. This is a huge turnoff for me and it is for many people. And yes, I am partly biased because I live in the heartland, am conservative and own a gun, etc.

I'm a surgeon. I've never walked into a patients recovery room after I took out their sigmoid colon or gallbladder and been like 'hey. I think Barack Obama is an ******* and Hillary Clinton is a crooked witch. Let's make America great again. Your surgery went fine by the way.'
Because no one is paying me to care what I think about **** like this, just like no one is paying these football players because of their incredible insight. In other words, shut the **** up and do your ****ing job!

Well you touched on a lot of things there.

In terms of celebrities and their political views, it annoys me to varying degrees based mainly on a combination of how much I like that particular celebrity and how much I agree with what they're saying (yes, I just admitted tons of bias on this issue). But at the same time, if I had an audience, I don't think I'd be able to hold my tongue on issues I feel strongly about even if the reason I had an audience had nothing to do with political/social issues. Think about it: as a surgeon, between consultations, operations, and follow-up care, how many patients do you see in a week? 20 maybe? A few hundred a year? I work for a large school system but most of what I do is internal and I mainly work with the same 20 or 30 people over and over again. If you our I espoused our political opinions at work, you'd reach maybe a few hundred people a year and I'd be lucky to hit a few dozen. Celebrities reach millions.

I mean, Kap doesn't have a job and hasn't said anything publicly in months and people are still talking about him and his views. Whether or not you like his message or his manner of delivering it, you have to admit he got a LOT of attention to his cause. If I could do that, I don't think I'd be able to resist the temptation. In fact, if I felt strongly enough about certain issues, I'd feel like I had a moral imperative to do everything I can to get the message out there.

As far as "shut the **** up and do your ****ing job," well, the two aren't mutually exclusive. Actions before the game or when a player isn't playing don't affect their job performance. I mean, if Kap was supposed to run a QB sneak on 4th and inches at the goal line, but instead took a knee so he could run to the team logo at midfield and stand there doing the black power fist, I'd agree with you. But I have yet to see any evidence that he or any other athlete is not doing their job because of their political views.

And just out of curiosity, how did you feel about Tebow and all his religious stuff?

But I think the bigger issue is that we give too much credit to celebrities in this country. We like people who can play a game well or perform music that we like or act in a movie or whatever... so for some reason we care who they are as people or what they think about political/social/religious issues. It's nonsensical. We like these people because they have a talent that we appreciate- we shouldn't judge their personal actions or listen to them more than we do actual experts. There was a Halloween episode of the Simpsons where all the advertising mascots came back to life, and the only way to get them to become inanimate again was to ignore them. It's the same thing with celebrities and their opinions. If we ignore them, they go away. But people who agree with Kap won't stop talking about it because they like what he did, and people who disagree with him won't stop talking about it because they're pissed off. They're both giving him a floor that he didn't really earn or deserve.

[kgun12]

Sure but to what effect? Kaepernick has made this issue a national talking point for over a year now and has inspired a handful of other players to also sit down or kneel. It's become such a strong statement that now sports broadcasts actively seek out those players who choose to express themselves in that way. Whether you like what Kaep did or not, it was extremely effective.

You mean ESPN is seeking out these players, the Network that wouldn't let Robert Lee announce a football game? Give me a break, the NFL and ESPN are a joke.

[OpIv37]

You mean ESPN is seeking out these players, the Network that wouldn't let Robert Lee announce a football game? Give me a break, the NFL and ESPN are a joke.

You think ESPN is the only media outlet seeking out the players following Kap's lead? Come on.

[Skooby]

You mean ESPN is seeking out these players, the Network that wouldn't let Robert Lee announce a football game?
He's a gook for Christ sake, anyone knows we only go to their countries to start wars.


J/K.

[ICRockets]

You mean ESPN is seeking out these players, the Network that wouldn't let Robert Lee announce a football game? Give me a break, the NFL and ESPN are a joke.

You know you're an idiot, right? They asked if he wanted to switch games, and he said yes in part because it was closer to his family and he'd be able to go home and be with them that same night.

[BillsImpossible]

https://hw.infowars.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/NFL.jpg

http://thebiglead.com/2017/09/13/the-nfl-is-seriously-concerned-with-empty-stadiums/

https://usatthebiglead.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/grab-2017-09-10-15h49m59s167.png?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

[Scumbag College]

I've been in San Diego now for about three years. This is a big time transient city, most everyone you meet is from somewhere else.

Of the native Californians that I've met here, 2 out of 3 are Raiders fans. Raiders fans are probably 4 out of 5 two hours north in LA, a much bigger metropolitan area. If the Raiders moved to LA, they would have sold out the old, crappy Coliseum from Day 1. It'll take time and probably a winning team for a few years for either the Chargers or Rams to gain any traction when the new stadium there is ready. Until then, LA is an NFL purgatory.

The 49ers built that stadium in Silicon Valley, about 50 miles south of the city of SF banking on the average high income in the area translating to a filled stadium and luxury boxes. But, Silicon Valley is another high transient area with not too many natives to the area living there. They don't care about the Niners, and the diehards are all fifty miles north. Couple that with the lousy product SF has put onto the field the past few years with no end in sight...it's no wonder that stadium is empty.

The Raiders have a really good and exciting team. They play right now in an old, out of date stadium in a bad neighborhood until they move to Vegas. I'm guessing that the Raiders will sell out once they get to Vegas, but they will also be moving to another city with no real "natives" to the city, thus creating home games that probably half the stadium are traveling fans coming to stay at a casino for a vacation. Financially this will make a ton of sense for the NFL and it's owners and the city of Las Vegas, but it won't translate to a bigger Raiders following.

California is either the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world and a great place to live. But, I think for right now the NFL is teetering on being on the outside looking in here vs. the NBA and MLB for fan dollars and loyalties. The Chargers and Rams stadium situations have been botched beyond belief, and the stadium is now rumored to be delayed until a 2020 opening instead of 2019 due to an unexpectedly heavy rainy winter here.

[YardRat]

Sure but to what effect? Kaepernick has made this issue a national talking point for over a year now and has inspired a handful of other players to also sit down or kneel. It's become such a strong statement that now sports broadcasts actively seek out those players who choose to express themselves in that way. Whether you like what Kaep did or not, it was extremely effective.

Eh, what conversation has Kap really inspired? Him protesting, or what he is protesting about? There's a difference.

[CommissarSpartacus]

fine, let me rephrase. I do not care nor want to care about what some football player thinks about political issues. This is a huge turnoff for me and it is for many people. And yes, I am partly biased because I live in the heartland, am conservative and own a gun, etc.

I'm a surgeon. I've never walked into a patients recovery room after I took out their sigmoid colon or gallbladder and been like 'hey. I think Barack Obama is an ******* and Hillary Clinton is a crooked witch. Let's make America great again. Your surgery went fine by the way.'
Because no one is paying me to care what I think about **** like this, just like no one is paying these football players because of their incredible insight. In other words, shut the **** up and do your ****ing job!

Have you ever objected to the obscene warmongering the NFL happily promotes with endless tributes to "the troops" and ridiculously expensive and unnecessary flyovers?

Did you object to the NFL colluding with the military to "honor" Pat Tillman while hiding the fact he was murdered by his own guys?

I doubt it.

Rich white owners can pimp their horrible politics til the cows come home, but let one uppity negro open his mouth and the rednecks start wailing about the peons not knowing their place.

Disgusting.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I could care less what the present day NFL fan has to say. While a few are intelligent I find the vast majority to be limited in their conversational abilities. Beside do we really care what they have to say on pertinent issues?

Fixed it...

[DraftBoy]

I could care less what the present day athlete has to say. While a few are intelligent I find the vast majority to be limited in their conversational abilities. Beside do we really care what they have to say on pertinent issues?

They are the role models that many children look up to and want to emulate, so yes we really should care about what they have to say.

[DraftBoy]

You mean ESPN is seeking out these players, the Network that wouldn't let Robert Lee announce a football game? Give me a break, the NFL and ESPN are a joke.

No, I mean, CBS, NFLN, NBAN, FOX, NBC, FS1, and FS2. The only network I haven't seen look for it or tweet about it is the NHL Network.

[DraftBoy]

Eh, what conversation has Kap really inspired? Him protesting, or what he is protesting about? There's a difference.
Would the, or any, conversation exist without his position?

[Thurmal]

You know you're an idiot, right? They asked if he wanted to switch games, and he said yes in part because it was closer to his family and he'd be able to go home and be with them that same night.
That is complete CYA corporate-speak nonsense that ESPN came up with after the story went national and they looked like total fools. Anyone who believes he wasn't pulled from that game solely due to PC culture running amok is a pretty gullible person who definitely shouldn't be calling others idiots.

[ICRockets]

That is complete CYA corporate-speak nonsense that ESPN came up with after the story went national and they looked like total fools. Anyone who believes he wasn't pulled from that game solely due to PC culture running amok is a pretty gullible person who definitely shouldn't be calling others idiots.

Great, I look forward to you proving this.

I look less forward to "HURR HURR I'M A ****ING MORON SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND WHY I THINK THE THINGS I DON'T THINK ABOUT BEFORE I'VE DECIDED I THINK THEM" but I do find it a much more likely response.

[BertSquirtgum]

Great, I look forward to you proving this.

I look less forward to "HURR HURR I'M A ****ING MORON SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND WHY I THINK THE THINGS I DON'T THINK ABOUT BEFORE I'VE DECIDED I THINK THEM" but I do find it a much more likely response.

Stop eating food

[Joe Fo Sho]

Be honest, when was the last time you heard somebody say something you agreed with and thought, "I wish they'd just shut the **** up" ?

I agreed with you once.

[Thurmal]

Great, I look forward to you proving this.

I look less forward to "HURR HURR I'M A ****ING MORON SO I DON'T HAVE TO DEFEND WHY I THINK THE THINGS I DON'T THINK ABOUT BEFORE I'VE DECIDED I THINK THEM" but I do find it a much more likely response.
https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/08/22/robert-lee-espn-announcer-university-virginia-charlottesville

From the article:

ESPN provided the following statement:

“We collectively made the decision with Robert to switch games as the tragic events in Charlottesville were unfolding, simply because of the coincidence of his name. In that moment it felt right to all parties. It’s a shame that this is even a topic of conversation and we regret that who calls play by play for a football game has become an issue.”

Now who's the moron?

[ICRockets]

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/08/22/robert-lee-espn-announcer-university-virginia-charlottesville

From the article:

ESPN provided the following statement:

“We collectively made the decision with Robert to switch games as the tragic events in Charlottesville were unfolding, simply because of the coincidence of his name. In that moment it felt right to all parties. It’s a shame that this is even a topic of conversation and we regret that who calls play by play for a football game has become an issue.”

Now who's the moron?
You, if you think that proves that it was a politically calculated decision.

[Historian]

And just out of curiosity, how did you feel about Tebow and all his religious stuff?


This question needs answered.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

i already put my cards on the table. I'm not ashamed of what I believe in and I'll apologize to nobody for it.

I didn't have a problem with Tebow because he wasn't disrespecting anybody or disparaging anybody or anything. and he certainly didn't wear a shirt dedicated to a dictatorial maniac.

To answer your question IC Rockets. I voted for Trump and I yell at the TV all the time at him to shut the **** up.

The original question (or statement rather) was why is there a decline in attendance, interest etc.
My answer remains the same. Whether you agree with the politics or not, the politicization that a large portion of the population doesn't care for is part of the decline.

[ICRockets]

To answer your question IC Rockets. I voted for Trump and I yell at the TV all the time at him to shut the **** up.


That doesn't answer my question at all. I asked for an example of somebody saying something you agree with and that being your response. If you're trying to tell me that you agree with Trump about everything, well, I guess that would explain why you didn't understand my question. But unless you can provide specifics, I don't believe you agree with Trump when you want him to shut up.

[Thurmal]

You, if you think that proves that it was a politically calculated decision.
Give it up, dude. You made a disingenuous statement to protect your narrative, while calling other people with whom you disagreed an "idiot" and a "moron," and then were proven to be 100% wrong. Deal with it and come to the realization that facts>feelings.

[CommissarSpartacus]

https://www.si.com/extra-mustard/2017/08/22/robert-lee-espn-announcer-university-virginia-charlottesville

From the article:

ESPN provided the following statement:

“We collectively made the decision with Robert to switch games as the tragic events in Charlottesville were unfolding, simply because of the coincidence of his name. In that moment it felt right to all parties. It’s a shame that this is even a topic of conversation and we regret that who calls play by play for a football game has become an issue.”

Now who's the moron?

What are you insinuating?

Yes, this Lee guy had his game switched because of the coincidence with his last name. He agreed with the decision.

So, could you please state clearly what your point is?

[ICRockets]

Give it up, dude. You made a disingenuous statement to protect your narrative, while calling other people with whom you disagreed an "idiot" and a "moron," and then were proven to be 100% wrong. Deal with it and come to the realization that facts>feelings.

What's disingenuous about my statement? It's an absolute fact that when asked about the switch they cited the fact that the Pitt/Youngstown St game was closer to Lee's family.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/08/23/after-backlash-espns-president-explains-why-broadcaster-robert-lee-was-taken-off-u-va-game-in-charlottesville/?utm_term=.25cebf88c981

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

That doesn't answer my question at all. I asked for an example of somebody saying something you agree with and that being your response. If you're trying to tell me that you agree with Trump about everything, well, I guess that would explain why you didn't understand my question. But unless you can provide specifics, I don't believe you agree with Trump when you want him to shut up.
ok, I did misunderstand. you just wanna play 'Gotcha!' Instead of acknowledging that one of the reasons that the NFL is losing support partially because of stuff like Kaepernick, the national anthem protests etc.

well you got me. Congrats. still doesn't change the fact that one of the reasons people are turned off is because of perceived politicization of what was supposed to be an enjoyable mind numbing experience.

[Thurmal]

What are you insinuating?

Yes, this Lee guy had his game switched because of the coincidence with his last name. He agreed with the decision.

So, could you please state clearly what your point is?
That ESPN, in a moved driven by out-of-control political correctness, moved an Asian man named Robert Lee from a Charlottesville game solely b/c his name was close to Robert E. Lee, the confederate general. I backed this up with an SI article that quoted ESPN as saying this was the reason. I am not arguing a point as much as just stating a fact.

ICRockets was trying to push the narrative that he was moved to be "closer to his family," which is clearly not the main reason or really even a reason that existed until ESPN realized that they were a laughingstock.

[ICRockets]

ok, I did misunderstand. you just wanna play 'Gotcha!' Instead of acknowledging that one of the reasons that the NFL is losing support partially because of stuff like Kaepernick, the national anthem protests etc.

well you got me. Congrats. still doesn't change the fact that one of the reasons people are turned off is because of perceived politicization of what was supposed to be an enjoyable mind numbing experience.

Of course they're losing support for that reason. Because people, including you, DO "care about what some football player thinks about political issues." And when they disagree with idiot right-wingers, those idiot right-wingers have total meltdowns.

I was hoping that you were only one of those things, the right-winger part. But for some reason you're not interested in having an honest and candid discussion about this, which suggests to me that you're not intellectually capable of having it. I was not judging you when I said you care. I didn't call you stupid in either of my first two posts, and in my third I only suggested that you would be stupid if you agreed with Donald Trump about everything. Even now, I'm happy to be proven wrong about your intelligence. But you can't convince me you aren't stupid if you refuse to even try to say something smart. Does that seem like an unfair standard?

Again, I will ask and I'd appreciate an honest response: when is the last time somebody said something you agreed with and you thought, "I wish they'd just shut the **** up"?

I'm not asking you when the last time somebody you GENERALLY agree with about MOST things said something you DIDN'T agree with and it frustrated you. Because I don't deny that such things happen, and happen regularly. That's a universally relatable experience.

I really hope you can have this conversation, because I'm perfectly willing to do so respectfully as long as you can keep up. I believe it would be educational for both of us. Please reconsider your objection and actually take a moment to think about this. My instinct, coming from experience, is that you care more than you actually realize and are reacting irrationally to the protests as a result.

[ICRockets]

That ESPN, in a moved driven by out-of-control political correctness, moved an Asian man named Robert Lee from a Charlottesville game solely b/c his name was close to Robert E. Lee, the confederate general. I backed this up with an SI article that quoted ESPN as saying this was the reason. I am not arguing a point as much as just stating a fact.

ICRockets was trying to push the narrative that he was moved to be "closer to his family," which is clearly not the main reason or really even a reason that existed until ESPN realized that they were a laughingstock.
No ****, the main reason was because his name is similar to a Confederate General's. That doesn't mean they forced Lee to change assignments. They offered him an alternative and he accepted it, in part for the reason I cited. It had nothing to do with being politically correct; they were hesitant to put him in a situation where he'd become a meme through no fault of his own. They gave him a choice. He chose to switch.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Of course they're losing support for that reason. Because people, including you, DO "care about what some football player thinks about political issues." And when they disagree with idiot right-wingers, those idiot right-wingers have total meltdowns.

I was hoping that you were only one of those things, the right-winger part. But for some reason you're not interested in having an honest and candid discussion about this, which suggests to me that you're not intellectually capable of having it. I was not judging you when I said you care. I didn't call you stupid in either of my first two posts, and in my third I only suggested that you would be stupid if you agreed with Donald Trump about everything. Even now, I'm happy to be proven wrong about your intelligence. But you can't convince me you aren't stupid if you refuse to even try to say something smart. Does that seem like an unfair standard?

Again, I will ask and I'd appreciate an honest response: when is the last time somebody said something you agreed with and you thought, "I wish they'd just shut the **** up"?

I'm not asking you when the last time somebody you GENERALLY agree with about MOST things said something you DIDN'T agree with and it frustrated you. Because I don't deny that such things happen, and happen regularly. That's a universally relatable experience.

I really hope you can have this conversation, because I'm perfectly willing to do so respectfully as long as you can keep up. I believe it would be educational for both of us. Please reconsider your objection and actually take a moment to think about this. My instinct, coming from experience, is that you care more than you actually realize and are reacting irrationally to the protests as a result.
I really don't care what you think about my intelligence. My track record and my life speak for themselves. That said, I did not attack you either. I don't think an internet forum is a proper way to gauge someones value/intelligence, etc as you seem to insinuate pretty much everytime somebody disagrees with you on this website.

I am glad you are willing to accept my premise (this is the first time you've actually admitted it by the way) that people like me are tired of these protests.

i already answered your question... you got me. Nobody loves seeing what they believe in disrespected in such a public way. I'm not acting irrationally. I have not stopped watching the games. I'm simply explaining to you why many others have lost interest and are angry.

As a black man and the son of legal immigrants who came to this country poor as hell and more importantly as an American, I do not agree with nor respect the stance that the people who are engaging in these protests have to say about these matters. This incredible country gave my amazing parents an opportunity for social mobility and freedom which was not able to be experienced before. (at least in my mom's native country of Haiti) And they took advantage of it, sending their children to the best schools and providing for them in ways that they couldn't in any other country.

The fact of the matter is, police do not hate black people. Police are not racist. They are most often called to an area of high crime, low income which happens to be more minority. And because of these facts, things happen. They have a high stress, low reward job where they often have to act on instinct and react quickly. I guarantee you that not one of these people woke up one day and said 'i can't wait to shoot me an unarmed n**** today. '

and I know there are some a hole police officers out there that do abuse their power. i've seen it. But to disrespect my flag and to insinuate that the whole country just hates minorities and wants them dead is heinous and insulting to me.


Is that better?

[sukie]

I find it hard to comprehend the Kaepernick anthem thing is a deciding factor to stay home in even 1 football fans head. Ridiculous.

Now, mind you the cost of a 2-4 tickets, financing required beer, hot dogs, etc. Parking at 20 or more, Dumbass drunk *******s that took assholiness to 10 higher levels than back in the 80s.(yes I'm 53 and was drunk at many a game but always respectful.)

Long lines for bathrooms... weather. WHY BOTHER going when most have HD large tv's in air conditioned or heated comfort with plenty of food and beer at a fraction AND the ability to switch to ANY game... You can even watch NAKED.

It's not about a guy kneeling for 3.5 minutes. It's economics and comfort.

[OpIv37]

i already put my cards on the table. I'm not ashamed of what I believe in and I'll apologize to nobody for it.

I didn't have a problem with Tebow because he wasn't disrespecting anybody or disparaging anybody or anything. and he certainly didn't wear a shirt dedicated to a dictatorial maniac.

To answer your question IC Rockets. I voted for Trump and I yell at the TV all the time at him to shut the **** up.

The original question (or statement rather) was why is there a decline in attendance, interest etc.
My answer remains the same. Whether you agree with the politics or not, the politicization that a large portion of the population doesn't care for is part of the decline.

and somehwere, there is a non-Christian (Jew,Muslim, Hindu, atheist, whatever) going "dammit, I watch football to try to escape- i get Christianity shoved down my throat everywhere else and now it's in my football too."

Oh and Tebow did it DURING the game, unlike Kap.

Seems to me like you disagree with Kap- and maybe he's making you think about unpleasant issues- so you are grasping at straws to find some reason why it's not OK for him to be outspoken.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

and somehwere, there is a non-Christian (Jew,Muslim, Hindu, atheist, whatever) going "dammit, I watch football to try to escape- i get Christianity shoved down my throat everywhere else and now it's in my football too."

Oh and Tebow did it DURING the game, unlike Kap.

Seems to me like you disagree with Kap- and maybe he's making you think about unpleasant issues- so you are grasping at straws to find some reason why it's not OK for him to be outspoken.
somewhere..... somehow.. please find me a significant number of people who's said this. now you're just grasping at straws.

i'm giving you a reason why some people are tuning out (which i'm not tuning out by the way) and your response is 'somewhere there is someone..'

gimme a break. who's truly grasping at straws


and for the record, if that was a reason why this non existent person would stop watching football. i would completely disagree with but respect his or her right to do so.

[ICRockets]

I really don't care what you think about my intelligence. My track record and my life speak for themselves. That said, I did not attack you either. I don't think an internet forum is a proper way to gauge someones value/intelligence, etc as you seem to insinuate pretty much everytime somebody disagrees with you on this website.

I am glad you are willing to accept my premise (this is the first time you've actually admitted it by the way) that people like me are tired of these protests.

i already answered your question... you got me. Nobody loves seeing what they believe in disrespected in such a public way. I'm not acting irrationally. I have not stopped watching the games. I'm simply explaining to you why many others have lost interest and are angry.

As a black man and the son of legal immigrants who came to this country poor as hell and more importantly as an American, I do not agree with nor respect the stance that the people who are engaging in these protests have to say about these matters. This incredible country gave my amazing parents an opportunity for social mobility and freedom which was not able to be experienced before. (at least in my mom's native country of Haiti) And they took advantage of it, sending their children to the best schools and providing for them in ways that they couldn't in any other country.

The fact of the matter is, police do not hate black people. Police are not racist. They are most often called to an area of high crime, low income which happens to be more minority. And because of these facts, things happen. They have a high stress, low reward job where they often have to act on instinct and react quickly. I guarantee you that not one of these people woke up one day and said 'i can't wait to shoot me an unarmed n**** today. '

and I know there are some a hole police officers out there that do abuse their power. i've seen it. But to disrespect my flag and to insinuate that the whole country just hates minorities and wants them dead is heinous and insulting to me.


Is that better?
That's much better, yes. Thank you for admitting what you couldn't admit from the start- that when you said you "don't care about" their political views, you were not being honest (either consciously or unconsciously, I can't possibly say definitively one way or the other). My only interest in getting involved in the conversation was to point that out and make you aware of it if you weren't already.

As for the rest of your post, you have an abysmal understanding of Institutional Racism. It has nothing to do with any single officer's personal bias. I'd recommend you try educating yourself on other people's experiences rather than just relying on your own. If I were to do so, I'd be able to say "I've never met a cop I didn't personally think was a decent guy, and I don't know anybody who has been discriminated against by law enforcement" and fallaciously extrapolate that into a universal conclusion about our justice system. But doing so would be a mistake because in a country of 320 million, it's absurd to believe you can speak for them all.

Also, your contention that cops don't go into these situations anticipating murder could not have been more unfortunately timed. Just this morning, Jason Stockley was acquitted in the pre-meditated killing of Anthony Lamar Smith. He can be heard on the dashcam recording saying "I'm going to kill this mother****er, don't you know it!" as he pulls over. He then kills Smith and plants a gun in his car to cover his own ass.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

That's much better, yes. Thank you for admitting what you couldn't admit from the start- that when you said you "don't care about" their political views, you were not being honest (either consciously or unconsciously, I can't possibly say definitively one way or the other). My only interest in getting involved in the conversation was to point that out and make you aware of it if you weren't already.

As for the rest of your post, you have an abysmal understanding of Institutional Racism. It has nothing to do with any single officer's personal bias. I'd recommend you try educating yourself on other people's experiences rather than just relying on your own. If I were to do so, I'd be able to say "I've never met a cop I didn't personally think was a decent guy, and I don't know anybody who has been discriminated against by law enforcement" and fallaciously extrapolate that into a universal conclusion about our justice system. But doing so would be a mistake because in a country of 320 million, it's absurd to believe you can speak for them all.

Also, your contention that cops don't go into these situations anticipating murder could not have been more unfortunately timed. Just this morning, Jason Stockley was acquitted in the pre-meditated killing of Anthony Lamar Smith. He can be heard on the dashcam recording saying "I'm going to kill this mother****er, don't you know it!" as he pulls over. He then kills Smith and plants a gun in his car to cover his own ass.

I have an abysmal understanding of institutional racism? A white guy telling me that? Hilarious. I've experienced plenty of racism in my life and I've never let it hold me down and said 'woe is me.' Granted, I've experienced much less of it than my darker skinned friends but I've had some experiences.

I told you I've seen ******* cops abuse their power before, but this doesn't mean they are all racist and hate black people.

[ICRockets]

I told you I've seen ******* cops abuse their power before, but this doesn't mean they are all racist and hate black people.
No ****, dude. I just said that. What do you think I meant by "It has nothing to do with any single officer's personal bias."

The fact that you can't seem to separate an individual's prejudice from systemic oppression is proof that you don't understand institutional racism.

[OpIv37]

somewhere..... somehow.. please find me a significant number of people who's said this. now you're just grasping at straws.

i'm giving you a reason why some people are tuning out (which i'm not tuning out by the way) and your response is 'somewhere there is someone..'

gimme a break. who's truly grasping at straws


and for the record, if that was a reason why this non existent person would stop watching football. i would completely disagree with but respect his or her right to do so.

You've given absolutely zero evidence of your assertion that the politics is turning people off. In fact, the most outspoken guy isn't even on a team right now.

And seriously, it's a bit of an absurd reaction: "I'm going to stop watching a game I like cuz one of the 1800 players did something disrespectful!" Meanwhile, there are drug users, wife beaters, rapists, dog killers and occasionally even murderers on the field.

What you are saying makes no sense and there is no evidence to support it.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

You've given absolutely zero evidence of your assertion that the politics is turning people off. In fact, the most outspoken guy isn't even on a team right now.

And seriously, it's a bit of an absurd reaction: "I'm going to stop watching a game I like cuz one of the 1800 players did something disrespectful!" Meanwhile, there are drug users, wife beaters, rapists, dog killers and occasionally even murderers on the field.

What you are saying makes no sense and there is no evidence to support it.

for your first paragraph. NO, i did not do a poll of the united states of america and come to that conclusion. If you believe that the protests haven't pissed people off, you're not being honest with youself


as for the second paragraph. I don't disagree with it. I didn't say it was rational. I said 'this is why some people are turned off.'

third paragraph. What i'm saying doesn't agree with your narrative and your don't want to believe it.

[ICRockets]

You've given absolutely zero evidence of your assertion that the politics is turning people off. In fact, the most outspoken guy isn't even on a team right now.

And seriously, it's a bit of an absurd reaction: "I'm going to stop watching a game I like cuz one of the 1800 players did something disrespectful!" Meanwhile, there are drug users, wife beaters, rapists, dog killers and occasionally even murderers on the field.

What you are saying makes no sense and there is no evidence to support it.
I'm not sure evidence is needed here unless he's making the assertion that it's THE BIGGEST reason. The NFL's audience is gargantuan. Just based on the concept that everybody is an individual, I have no problem accepting the premise that some of those individuals have made the decision to tune out because they got triggered by political protests. Yes, it's an absurd reaction. But it's also an innately human one.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I'm not sure evidence is needed here unless he's making the assertion that it's THE BIGGEST reason. The NFL's audience is gargantuan. Just based on the concept that everybody is an individual, I have no problem accepting the premise that some of those individuals have made the decision to tune out because they got triggered by political protests. Yes, it's an absurd reaction. But it's also an innately human one.

Even though I think like these people, I do agree with you it's an absurd reaction. I HATE the protests and I'm flying to Charlotte tomorrow to watch my beloved Bills lose.

[YardRat]

Would the, or any, conversation exist without his position?

Do you think there hasn't been conversation until he started protesting? Of course there has. Kap has, by far IMO, created more conversation about him than he has about oppression.

[ICRockets]

Do you think there hasn't been conversation until he started protesting? Of course there has. Kap has, by far IMO, created more conversation about him than he has about oppression.

How is it his fault that the conversation went there?

[YardRat]

How is it his fault that the conversation went there?

I'm not judging Kap, I'm addressing the part of the conversation relative to the after-effect of his protests. The reality is he really hasn't elevated the discussion about oppression that much, if at all...most of the conversation that has ensued has been about Kap himself, whether he has the right to do what he did (does), whether somebody supports him or not, whether his actions are the reason for him being unemployed, etc etc.

Of course Kap isn't to blame for how others react to his actions, but let's not get carried away and pretend he's instigating some great conversation or movement when he isn't.

[Night Train]

it's all about the media circus surrounding a QB who has looked bad for a couple years.

No one wants him as a starter and he's probably not even worthy of most teams #2 right now. The teams that may want him as a backup don't want the media headache.

Circumstances add up. Whatever.

[BLUTO]

I find it hard to comprehend the Kaepernick anthem thing is a deciding factor to stay home in even 1 football fans head. Ridiculous.

Now, mind you the cost of a 2-4 tickets, financing required beer, hot dogs, etc. Parking at 20 or more, Dumbass drunk *******s that took assholiness to 10 higher levels than back in the 80s.(yes I'm 53 and was drunk at many a game but always respectful.)

Long lines for bathrooms... weather. WHY BOTHER going when most have HD large tv's in air conditioned or heated comfort with plenty of food and beer at a fraction AND the ability to switch to ANY game... You can even watch NAKED.



It's not about a guy kneeling for 3.5 minutes. It's economics and comfort.

EXCELLENT!

[CommissarSpartacus]

That ESPN, in a moved driven by out-of-control political correctness, moved an Asian man named Robert Lee from a Charlottesville game solely b/c his name was close to Robert E. Lee, the confederate general. I backed this up with an SI article that quoted ESPN as saying this was the reason. I am not arguing a point as much as just stating a fact.

And I keep having to tell right-wingers that facts are not arguments. Facts SUPPORT arguments but are not arguments in and of themselves.

Your ARGUMENT is that the game Lee was to do was changed (fact) because of out of control political correctness.

Now, do your facts support your argument?

Not really. It's seems much more likely it was changed to avoid any confusion, whether unintentional or intentional.

No big deal.

You're the only one trying to make an issue out of it and your doing it for blatantly political reasons.

Big fail.

Sad...

[Turf]

That ESPN, in a moved driven by out-of-control political correctness, moved an Asian man named Robert Lee from a Charlottesville game solely b/c his name was close to Robert E. Lee, the confederate general. I backed this up with an SI article that quoted ESPN as saying this was the reason. I am not arguing a point as much as just stating a fact.

ICRockets was trying to push the narrative that he was moved to be "closer to his family," which is clearly not the main reason or really even a reason that existed until ESPN realized that they were a laughingstock.

If Robert Lee was Asian, they missed a golden opportunity to make a comical spin on racism and play it down by saying, we're going to let our Asian announcer, Robert Lee, call this game. So either someone is really stupid, OK, wait, this is ESPN who dropped Berman for Rex.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

No ****, dude. I just said that. What do you think I meant by "It has nothing to do with any single officer's personal bias."

The fact that you can't seem to separate an individual's prejudice from systemic oppression is proof that you don't understand institutional racism.
You are clearly incapable of honest, meaningful discussion based on this response and haven't read a thing I've said . I'm done arguing with you. Have a nice day.

[Thurmal]

You are clearly incapable of honest, meaningful discussion based on this response and haven't read a thing I've said . I'm done arguing with you. Have a nice day.
Yeah, I bowed out of this discussion early too. It's like hitting your head against a brick wall over and over again, arguing with these people. I mean, look at this quote by Spartacus:

facts are not arguments. Facts SUPPORT arguments but are not arguments in and of themselves.

Translation: "I will ignore your factual evidence because it goes against my political narrative. It doesn't matter if you are right. I FEEL like you're wrong, so you should be wrong."

Sorry, that may be the rule of the law in Unicorn Fairy Land, but not in real life.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Yeah, I bowed out of this discussion early too. It's like hitting your head against a brick wall over and over again, arguing with these people. I mean, look at this quote by Spartacus:

facts are not arguments. Facts SUPPORT arguments but are not arguments in and of themselves.

Translation: "I will ignore your factual evidence because it goes against my political narrative. It doesn't matter if you are right. I FEEL like you're wrong, so you should be wrong."

Sorry, that may be the rule of the law in Unicorn Fairy Land, but not in real life.

Sorry, but your "translation" is utterly incorrect.

For example, "You're a moron" is a fact (a thing that is known or proved to be true.), but it's not an argument (a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.)

An argument would be "You're wrong BECAUSE you're a moron".

Now, YOU'RE argument is that ESPN's actions in this instance were driven by out of control political correctness.

The problem is, you haven't included any FACTS to support your argument, only your opinion, which I'm sure even you will admit is not objective.

Understand now?

[sukie]

And I keep having to tell right-wingers that facts are not arguments. Facts SUPPORT arguments but are not arguments in and of themselves.

Your ARGUMENT is that the game Lee was to do was changed (fact) because of out of control political correctness.

Now, do your facts support your argument?

Not really. It's seems much more likely it was changed to avoid any confusion, whether unintentional or intentional.

No big deal.

You're the only one trying to make an issue out of it and your doing it for blatantly political reasons.

Big fail.

Sad...
I understand your point except the move being done to avoid confusion. What confusion exactly? The possibility some angry dumbass might think it was Robert E Lee calling the game? Really?

[alohabillsfan]

Let's see, the constant conversation of oppression that' has been talked and talked about before , during and after the game when I would rather hear about the dam game !! Then there is the NFL power move of if Texas passes the bathroom law they may not get the draft in Dallas, PC ****, so yes I stream my games !

[alohabillsfan]

Oh, and I love the fact that his protest to start a conversation about oppression has resulted in a conversation about his protests. ������

[swiper]

Let's see, the constant conversation of oppression that' has been talked and talked about before , during and after the game when I would rather hear about the dam game !! Then there is the NFL power move of if Texas passes the bathroom law they may not get the draft in Dallas, PC ****, so yes I stream my games !

The draft should only be in it's home in NYC, IMO.

[DraftBoy]

Do you think there hasn't been conversation until he started protesting? Of course there has. Kap has, by far IMO, created more conversation about him than he has about oppression.

Not within the context of sports and the NFL.

[YardRat]

Not within the context of sports and the NFL.

Horse****.

The Rooney Rule just said "Ummm...excuse me...over here? (waving hand)".

[Mr. Pink]

Gate sales don't matter to the NFL. I don't even know when they last did.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I understand your point except the move being done to avoid confusion. What confusion exactly? The possibility some angry dumbass might think it was Robert E Lee calling the game? Really?

No, the possibility that an angry dumbass might use it for whatever.

Which is what happened.