I may be all alone -but- I could care less about - - -

[BLUTO]

An individual NFL player's personal views about race, politics, sex, abortion or his ideas about our country and the National Anthem.

I pay money to watch a game played by the best football athletes in the world. That's all I want. It's a product not a moral pursuit.

GO BILLS!

[Thurmal]

An individual NFL player's personal views about race, politics, sex, abortion or his ideas about our country and the National Anthem.

I pay money to watch a game played by the best football athletes in the world. That's all I want. It's a product not a moral pursuit.

GO BILLS!
This is what athletes and movie stars and musicians and other celebrities don't get. They have had their asses kissed for so long, that they think that they are actually smarter than the average Joe, which they're clearly not. This last election was a hilarious repudiation of their lecturing and a true portrayal of how little influence they have outside of their little niche. Getting a reality check that brutal obviously crushed them, which is why you are seeing the meltdown and histrionics.

[Night Train]

They...made it a moral pursuit.

Trump said something insanely stupid and the NFL tried to one up him in the stupidity race.

So now the game is secondary in the eyes of the media and talking heads doing the game.

I'll just record next weeks game so I can fast forward through it in 40 minutes and do something else worth my time Sunday. I don't wish to hear what a bag of hammers has to say.

[ICRockets]

I love how so many white people think they get to tell black people that they're OBVIOUSLY stupid to think racism is a problem.

[jimmifli]

I love how so many white people think they get to tell black people that they're OBVIOUSLY stupid to think racism is a problem.

It's like they're watching horse racing.

[djjimkelly]

An individual NFL player's personal views about race, politics, sex, abortion or his ideas about our country and the National Anthem.

I pay money to watch a game played by the best football athletes in the world. That's all I want. It's a product not a moral pursuit.

GO BILLS!

how about i truly DONT want to know their views on politics or religion or race they are in their early 20's and are pampered athletes i in fact truly could care less what they think

[sahlensguy]

how about i truly DONT want to know their views on politics or religion or race they are in their early 20's and are pampered athletes i in fact truly could care less what they think

So are you (and the OP) bothered at all by the protest. I'm not sure what you guys are getting at.

Since you don't care, are you ignoring it and just paying attention to the game?

[ICRockets]

how about i truly DONT want to know their views on politics or religion or race they are in their early 20's and are pampered athletes i in fact truly could care less what they think
And as we all know, they were raised in laboratories and hyberbaric chambers and incubation tanks, so they never knew a life without thousands of money.

[sudzy]

I love how so many white people think they get to tell black people that they're OBVIOUSLY stupid to think racism is a problem.

Is that what he's saying? Because, I thought he was saying, that it would be nice to watch sports entertainment, without politics being involved. But, those days are gone.

[ICRockets]

Is that what he's saying? Because, I thought he was saying, that it would be nice to watch sports entertainment, without politics being involved. But, those days are gone.

Yes, that's what he's saying. Did you miss the "bag of hammers" part of his comment?

[sudzy]

Yes, that's what he's saying. Did you miss the "bag of hammers" part of his comment?

I'm glad your here to translate everything said into Millennial "I'm going to twist everything into PC crap, so I can overreact and get offended."

[Mace]

This is what athletes and movie stars and musicians and other celebrities don't get. They have had their asses kissed for so long, that they think that they are actually smarter than the average Joe, which they're clearly not. This last election was a hilarious repudiation of their lecturing and a true portrayal of how little influence they have outside of their little niche. Getting a reality check that brutal obviously crushed them, which is why you are seeing the meltdown and histrionics.

Lmao, you just described Trump, and didn't even realize it.

I learned long ago that life is too complex and accepted it won't cater to me, for better or worse. I don't believe seeking a lazy, tunnel vision existence catering to one's personal preferences develops an individual with thoughtful perspectives.

All that said, it's fine to just want to pay attention to the football, so just do it and ignore the rest.

I don't have any problem distinguishing the players as people from the players as players, and separating the social statement from the sport, I mean it is what it is.

Celebrities don't make themselves. We create them and give them a platform to lip off from, good or bad, and a football player is no different from the host of "The Apprentice".

In the end, it doesn't change my enjoyment of a football game.

[El Guapo]

I am just curious -- how many of you go to your jobs and protest a political ideology every morning?

In my line of work, I have never seen anyone protest anything political before/during/after they started working.

At my work, we are from all different walks of life. I know we all have differing political and social views, but we are there to work and get a job done (and get paid for that effort). I could care less how Joe feels about climate change or a border wall. I need Joe to do his job so I can do mine. Chelsea needs me to do my job so she can do her job. She could care less how I feel about the electoral college.

This is what people are upset about. This is the players' job (playing football). It's not a platform for political gain.

I want to watch football. That's it. If I want to listen to politics, there are plenty of other channels I can turn to in order to get my fill of politics. If players want to make a statement, do it on your time, not the organization's time. There will be an audience. ESPN will cover it, trust me.

Final thoughts. Trump was wrong to get involved in this. The NFL was wrong to take the bait.

Go Bills!

[OpIv37]

This is what athletes and movie stars and musicians and other celebrities don't get. They have had their asses kissed for so long, that they think that they are actually smarter than the average Joe, which they're clearly not. This last election was a hilarious repudiation of their lecturing and a true portrayal of how little influence they have outside of their little niche. Getting a reality check that brutal obviously crushed them, which is why you are seeing the meltdown and histrionics.

Here's the problem though- celebrities have something that most of us do not: people who listen to them.

Yeah, preachy celebrities can get annoying. Some are smart- most are not. And TBH, often when I agree with a celebrity on a certain issue, it still bothers me because they do such a terrible job of communicating the point and explaining the logic behind it that it does more harm than good.

But we all have issues about which we feel strongly. If I was famous, I think I'd have a hard time staying silent on certain issues even if my opinions on those issues had nothing to do with why I was famous.

The other part of the problem isn't with the celebrities- it's the way the general public reacts to them. They pay attention to the people who are famous rather than the people who are actually knowledgeable.

[kishoph]

I love how so many white people think they get to tell black people that they're OBVIOUSLY stupid to think racism is a problem.

I love it when idiots ^ think only white people are racist or that black people are the only people that have endured suffering in this country.

Don't you have an old veteran somewhere you need to go and harass ?

[El Guapo]

One more thought don't tell me to just ignore it. It has been discussed before, during and after the games. It is all the sports media cares to talk about.

[Ingtar33]

I love how so many white people think they get to tell black people that they're OBVIOUSLY stupid to think racism is a problem.

now this.... this right here is why we have a problem in the first place. I'm not really talking about ICROCKETS personally. I don't know him at all. I'm sure he's a good guy to have a beer with. Or not, who knows, he might be a dick. The point is I don't know him. And yet here were are, in a forum where personal attacks are supposed to be banned (or they were way back when this place was created, who knows what goes anymore), and ICRockets is snarkily calling some guy(s) racist for complaining about people talking about the anthem kneeling. Sure "Shut up and play football" might not go over well to some people. I'm sure some people saying it might even be racist and it might even be racial code words for "shut up N**** and entertain me", but it's also far more likely to mean exactly what is said. "Shut up and play football".

How do I know? Because I find even listening to the news about the blowhard in the whitehouse causes me to change the channel. Same with listening to people talk about him who oppose him. I didn't vote for our president. I REALLY don't like hearing him talk. I also REALLY don't like hearing about him. It raises my blood pressure. Especially when it spills onto the football field. I deal with black, white, whatever color football players every day at the college level. These protests ARE a source of conversation in our locker room. It sucks too, because the locker room needs to be a refuge from "the real world". So when I settle down to watch NFL football (something I'm doing less and less of these past two years), the last thing I want is for my blood pressure to raise and be forced to deal with this, yet again, after hours.

Now I'm sure ICRockets might just say I'm a racist or a neanderthal for this, I can't argue with someone who sees everything in racial terms, nor will I start. I am just a dumb assed ex-football player and coach. And used to be a huge fan of NFL football. This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Both sides. On one side you have a bunch of millionaires pretending outrage or are so sensitive they're actually outraged over what an idiot said about a basketball player on twitter, or protesting that he was elected, or that cops shoot too many blacks, or... well I'm not even sure why anyone is kneeling anymore, and I'm not entirely sure they do either. Meanwhile on the other hand you have a bunch of people who just want to watch football, pretend to wrap themselves in the flag to express outrage over this issue likely due to the same irritation I'm feeling about it, or they actually love their country but not the first amendment, or they just feel it's disrespectful, who all just want to forget about all the crap that goes on in their lives for a few hours. It just gives me a migraine.

I'm not going to wrap my complaints in the flag. I think this phrase expresses my unfiltered opinion about the issue just fine, "Now shut up and let me watch my football in peace."



BTW: after reading through this I realize I didn't mention the people who really irritate me in all this. The network coverage teams. Show the protest, don't' talk about it. I don't think it would irritate me at all. People kneeling has never bugged me.

[tomz]

I am just curious -- how many of you go to your jobs and protest a political ideology every morning?

In my line of work, I have never seen anyone protest anything political before/during/after they started working.

At my work, we are from all different walks of life. I know we all have differing political and social views, but we are there to work and get a job done (and get paid for that effort). I could care less how Joe feels about climate change or a border wall. I need Joe to do his job so I can do mine. Chelsea needs me to do my job so she can do her job. She could care less how I feel about the electoral college.

This is what people are upset about. This is the players' job (playing football). It's not a platform for political gain.

I want to watch football. That's it. If I want to listen to politics, there are plenty of other channels I can turn to in order to get my fill of politics. If players want to make a statement, do it on your time, not the organization's time. There will be an audience. ESPN will cover it, trust me.

Final thoughts. Trump was wrong to get involved in this. The NFL was wrong to take the bait.

Go Bills!

??? How are they not doing it on their own time? The games still go on.

Don't give me the part about 'it's during the broadcast.' So is the jingoistic super-militaristic stuff at the beginning of every game. There were times when it has been laid on so thick that I thought I was at a modern day Nuremberg rally instead of a Bills game. I am not so excited about knee jerk patriotism but I certainly don't feel obliged to complain about it.

And stupid end zone celebrations are being widely denigrated as over the top.

The bottom line is that anyone with any platform is allowed to use it as they see fit. At least these guys honestly worked for what they got as opposed to the reality show morons like the duck dynasty folks or the ones with 8 million kids or the honey boo boos or the real wives of whatever. All of who are free to hawk their garbage and their idiotic pseudo philosophies in any way. At least the athletes are promoting a worthy ideal. And many of the athletes are intelligent and cogent as opposed to most of the entertainment celebrities who are foisted on the public.

Watch the game and ignore the rest.

[ParanoidAndroid]

This is what athletes and movie stars and musicians and other celebrities don't get. They have had their asses kissed for so long, that they think that they are actually smarter than the average Joe, which they're clearly not. This last election was a hilarious repudiation of their lecturing and a true portrayal of how little influence they have outside of their little niche. Getting a reality check that brutal obviously crushed them, which is why you are seeing the meltdown and histrionics.
Histrionics? Precious. That's Trump's shtick.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I may be all alone -but- I could care less about - -
So you COULDN'T care less about it?

[ParanoidAndroid]

An individual NFL player's personal views about race, politics, sex, abortion or his ideas about our country and the National Anthem.

I pay money to watch a game played by the best football athletes in the world. That's all I want. It's a product not a moral pursuit.

GO BILLS!
Yeah. I wish they weren't actual people. I just want to be entertained!

[DraftBoy]

I'm not really talking about ICROCKETS personally. I don't know him at all. I'm sure he's a good guy to have a beer with. Or not, who knows, he might be a dick. The point is I don't know him.

He's a dick, just ask him...

But he's also a good guy to have a beer with.

[endzone]

I am just curious -- how many of you go to your jobs and protest a political ideology every morning?

In my line of work, I have never seen anyone protest anything political before/during/after they started working.

At my work, we are from all different walks of life. I know we all have differing political and social views, but we are there to work and get a job done (and get paid for that effort). I could care less how Joe feels about climate change or a border wall. I need Joe to do his job so I can do mine. Chelsea needs me to do my job so she can do her job. She could care less how I feel about the electoral college.

This is what people are upset about. This is the players' job (playing football). It's not a platform for political gain.

I want to watch football. That's it. If I want to listen to politics, there are plenty of other channels I can turn to in order to get my fill of politics. If players want to make a statement, do it on your time, not the organization's time. There will be an audience. ESPN will cover it, trust me.

Final thoughts. Trump was wrong to get involved in this. The NFL was wrong to take the bait.

Go Bills!

The NFL was wrong to take the bait. Excellent comment! President Trump throws out ideas & challenges just like fishing lures. It's great!

[El Guapo]

??? How are they not doing it on their own time? The games still go on.

Don't give me the part about 'it's during the broadcast.' So is the jingoistic super-militaristic stuff at the beginning of every game. There were times when it has been laid on so thick that I thought I was at a modern day Nuremberg rally instead of a Bills game.
Watch the game and ignore the rest.
First, they are at work. Therefore, they are on their employer's time. Get it?

second, it's clear that you have taken a political side in this. I did not. I don't care about the politics. You do. Therefore your judgement is clouded. Your mind has been made up by your political ideology, not based on anything else. Are you really comparing the USA to Nazi Germany?

You are as much a CNN lover as the other side is a FOX lover.

[jimmifli]

He's a dick, just ask him...

But he's also a good guy to have a beer with.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aJX4ytfqw6k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[stuckincincy]

An individual NFL player's personal views about race, politics, sex, abortion or his ideas about our country and the National Anthem.

I pay money to watch a game played by the best football athletes in the world. That's all I want. It's a product not a moral pursuit.

GO BILLS!

That's all that need be said.

NFL roster players are millionaire. They can use their wealth and "idol" status to influence others about things they are recently passionate about, in venues other that the playing field.

Let's see if they do.

[tat2dmike77]

I stopped caring a long time agi

[stuckincincy]

I stopped caring a long time agi

I hear ya.

College FB is better than the NFL product these days. ESPN is broadcasting CFL games. I get like 5 soccer feeds from my current provider - and I am greatly learning to appreciate the game of soccer. NASCAR. NHRA. Cricket. Rugby...etc.

I am weaning away from the NFL .

[sahlensguy]

I am just curious -- how many of you go to your jobs and protest a political ideology every morning?

In my line of work, I have never seen anyone protest anything political before/during/after they started working.

At my work, we are from all different walks of life. I know we all have differing political and social views, but we are there to work and get a job done (and get paid for that effort). I could care less how Joe feels about climate change or a border wall. I need Joe to do his job so I can do mine. Chelsea needs me to do my job so she can do her job. She could care less how I feel about the electoral college.

This is what people are upset about. This is the players' job (playing football). It's not a platform for political gain.

I want to watch football. That's it. If I want to listen to politics, there are plenty of other channels I can turn to in order to get my fill of politics. If players want to make a statement, do it on your time, not the organization's time. There will be an audience. ESPN will cover it, trust me.

Final thoughts. Trump was wrong to get involved in this. The NFL was wrong to take the bait.

Go Bills!

You sound like you are one of privilege. After paying with your time and money, you think you then deserve to be entertained.

And that sounds like the bottom line.

[endzone]

You sound like you are one of privilege. After paying with your time and money, you think you then deserve to be entertained.

And that sounds like the bottom line.

I go to a movie and pay for a ticket. I want entertainment. I go to Shea's to see a play and I want entertainment. I go to a Sabres game and want entertainment.

I pay for entertainment - that's the bottom line. I don't want the entertainer's who I pay for telling me their opinion's on anything!

[sahlensguy]

I go to a movie and pay for a ticket. I want entertainment. I go to Shea's to see a play and I want entertainment. I go to a Sabres game and want entertainment.

I pay for entertainment - that's the bottom line. I don't want the entertainer's who I pay for telling me their opinion's on anything!

You'll need to pony up much more than few thousands annual dollars to begin to even think you deserve the silencing of the athletes that you enjoy watching. May I suggest Madden?

[ICRockets]

I love it when idiots ^ think only white people are racist or that black people are the only people that have endured suffering in this country.

Don't you have an old veteran somewhere you need to go and harass ?

Based on the definition of racism preferred by a small-yet-growing section of the Progressive population, yes only white people can be racist. However, before you Hulk out over that concept, I'd like you to allow me to explain it further.

Essentially, the general idea behind defining racism the way these people (including myself, though I don't use this definition around here because most of the posters on this board are too conservative to entertain radical concepts) define it is that the word 'racism' applies exclusively to systems of racial oppression or discrimination. Since white Americans do not experience racial oppression/discrimination, they are not victims of racism. Since people of color do not historically possess the power to oppress or discriminate white Americans on the basis of their race, they cannot be racist.

HOWEVER- and this is why I like this definition of the word more than the traditional definition- what this means is that VERY FEW WHITE PEOPLE CAN BE DESCRIBED AS RACISTS. In order to fit my preferred definition of being a 'racist' you must be a conscious participant in the systemic oppression or discrimination of people of color. Are you a landlord who routinely refuses to rent or sublet to POC? You're a racist. Are you an electrician who marched at Charlottesville? You are not a racist.

Now, that doesn't mean you're entirely absolved if you are that hypothetical Charlottesville tradesman. You are still prejudiced. You still have a racial bias. But I find those words to be less charged with contempt toward the biased party, and more with frustration and disappointment. And if you're white, you can still be the victim of a POC's prejudice or racial bias. So I'm not suggesting that people of color are the only ones who've had to endure such a thing.

Nor am I suggesting that racism is the only system of oppression that exists in the U.S. Far, far, far from it. There's sexism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than misogyny), classism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than snobbery), ageism, etc.

I know from experience that a lot of you are going to bristle at the notion that you can't call a black person racist. You're not going to be able to fathom the full weight of what I'm saying, so you're going to feel attacked. That is the exact WRONG reaction. The point of re-defining what these '-isms' represent is to unite us against our mutual oppressors. Because make no mistake, we're all being oppressed by a lot of the same systems. The difference is that oppression and discrimination based on race, specifically, is an epidemic within police departments and judicial systems across America. THAT is what the kneeling originally represented to guys like Colin Kaepernick and Michael Bennett. They were protesting a system where cops are more likely to see jail time for killing a dog than they were for killing an unarmed black man.

But the insidious thing about systems of oppression is that they are violently resistant to being overturned. You're seeing IMMENSE militarization of police forces across the country. Body armor, SWAT gear, tactical rifles, ****ing TANKS for Christ's sake! If you dismiss their wrongdoing against one powerless group, why would you think they'd stop there? If the problem gets bad enough that white people start to rise up against it, they will put us down without any more hesitation than they have for putting down POC now unless. we stop them. before. they can. Unless. we speak out. and change the tide. All of us. White. Black. Latino. Native American. Man. Woman. Poor. Middle-class.

Please, think about this. Engage in this conversation with me. Ask me questions. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying because it's coming from a so-called 'L i b t a r d'.

[Skooby]

Based on the definition of racism preferred by a small-yet-growing section of the Progressive population, yes only white people can be racist. However, before you Hulk out over that concept, I'd like you to allow me to explain it further.

Essentially, the general idea behind defining racism the way these people (including myself, though I don't use this definition around here because most of the posters on this board are too conservative to entertain radical concepts) define it is that the word 'racism' applies exclusively to systems of racial oppression or discrimination. Since white Americans do not experience racial oppression/discrimination, they are not victims of racism. Since people of color do not historically possess the power to oppress or discriminate white Americans on the basis of their race, they cannot be racist.

HOWEVER- and this is why I like this definition of the word more than the traditional definition- what this means is that VERY FEW WHITE PEOPLE CAN BE DESCRIBED AS RACISTS. In order to fit my preferred definition of being a 'racist' you must be a conscious participant in the systemic oppression or discrimination of people of color. Are you a landlord who routinely refuses to rent or sublet to POC? You're a racist. Are you an electrician who marched at Charlottesville? You are not a racist.

Now, that doesn't mean you're entirely absolved if you are that hypothetical Charlottesville tradesman. You are still prejudiced. You still have a racial bias. But I find those words to be less charged with contempt toward the biased party, and more with frustration and disappointment. And if you're white, you can still be the victim of a POC's prejudice or racial bias. So I'm not suggesting that people of color are the only ones who've had to endure such a thing.

Nor am I suggesting that racism is the only system of oppression that exists in the U.S. Far, far, far from it. There's sexism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than misogyny), classism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than snobbery), ageism, etc.

I know from experience that a lot of you are going to bristle at the notion that you can't call a black person racist. You're not going to be able to fathom the full weight of what I'm saying, so you're going to feel attacked. That is the exact WRONG reaction. The point of re-defining what these '-isms' represent is to unite us against our mutual oppressors. Because make no mistake, we're all being oppressed by a lot of the same systems. The difference is that oppression and discrimination based on race, specifically, is an epidemic within police departments and judicial systems across America. THAT is what the kneeling originally represented to guys like Colin Kaepernick and Michael Bennett. They were protesting a system where cops are more likely to see jail time for killing a dog than they were for killing an unarmed black man.

But the insidious thing about systems of oppression is that they are violently resistant to being overturned. You're seeing IMMENSE militarization of police forces across the country. Body armor, SWAT gear, tactical rifles, ****ing TANKS for Christ's sake! If you dismiss their wrongdoing against one powerless group, why would you think they'd stop there? If the problem gets bad enough that white people start to rise up against it, they will put us down without any more hesitation than they have for putting down POC now unless. we stop them. before. they can. Unless. we speak out. and change the tide. All of us. White. Black. Latino. Native American. Man. Woman. Poor. Middle-class.

Please, think about this. Engage in this conversation with me. Ask me questions. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying because it's coming from a so-called 'L i b t a r d'.

Did your mom have any other kids that lived ??

[ICRockets]

Did your mom have any other kids that lived ??

Thank you for your thoughtful response!

[Mace]

BTW: after reading through this I realize I didn't mention the people who really irritate me in all this. The network coverage teams. Show the protest, don't' talk about it. I don't think it would irritate me at all.

You can't ignore scope for convenience. You can't see something and not pay attention to what it means or you're trying to avoid something and duck responsibility for it because you don't want to think about it.

You can't say players should just play because it's their job while ignoring the President should just be a President of a nation because it's his job.

Trump sent out over 50 tweets with one at the beginning on the 20th offering our best to Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico is savaged, the US Virgin Islands damaged, all US citizens looking for help and comfort. There is all kinds of tragedy and the imbecile wants to pick an irrelevant fight with a sports league. What's he paying attention to ?

He was at work too, he's always supposed to be. That's his job.

You can't get out of living in a bigger world past your comfort zone, it's always there and always bigger than your world.

I'll say it again, if you want to be numb and just enjoy your wee part of it, it's just fine, but don't step on my consideration of scope. That's not even fair if I'm willing to tolerate yours.

People want placebos against reality on purpose. It makes no sense to me. I'd rather see reality and hear it stated, then filter it appropriately to decide what it means to me.

It's ridiculous to think things should be ignored for anyone's convenience. That's just not reality. And it's ridiculous to think the President occupied his attention with a football league fight while Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are begging for help. It's also ridiculous to say reporters shouldn't report because people can't be bothered to think and intellectually filter because they just waaaaaaant their 1pm placebo.

It's disgusting and morally repugnant and I don't give a crap if anyone doesn't like my saying it. I guess I was raised different.

[El Guapo]

Based on the definition of racism preferred by a small-yet-growing section of the Progressive population, yes only white people can be racist. However, before you Hulk out over that concept, I'd like you to allow me to explain it further.

Essentially, the general idea behind defining racism the way these people (including myself, though I don't use this definition around here because most of the posters on this board are too conservative to entertain radical concepts) define it is that the word 'racism' applies exclusively to systems of racial oppression or discrimination. Since white Americans do not experience racial oppression/discrimination, they are not victims of racism. Since people of color do not historically possess the power to oppress or discriminate white Americans on the basis of their race, they cannot be racist.

HOWEVER- and this is why I like this definition of the word more than the traditional definition- what this means is that VERY FEW WHITE PEOPLE CAN BE DESCRIBED AS RACISTS. In order to fit my preferred definition of being a 'racist' you must be a conscious participant in the systemic oppression or discrimination of people of color. Are you a landlord who routinely refuses to rent or sublet to POC? You're a racist. Are you an electrician who marched at Charlottesville? You are not a racist.

Now, that doesn't mean you're entirely absolved if you are that hypothetical Charlottesville tradesman. You are still prejudiced. You still have a racial bias. But I find those words to be less charged with contempt toward the biased party, and more with frustration and disappointment. And if you're white, you can still be the victim of a POC's prejudice or racial bias. So I'm not suggesting that people of color are the only ones who've had to endure such a thing.

Nor am I suggesting that racism is the only system of oppression that exists in the U.S. Far, far, far from it. There's sexism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than misogyny), classism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than snobbery), ageism, etc.

I know from experience that a lot of you are going to bristle at the notion that you can't call a black person racist. You're not going to be able to fathom the full weight of what I'm saying, so you're going to feel attacked. That is the exact WRONG reaction. The point of re-defining what these '-isms' represent is to unite us against our mutual oppressors. Because make no mistake, we're all being oppressed by a lot of the same systems. The difference is that oppression and discrimination based on race, specifically, is an epidemic within police departments and judicial systems across America. THAT is what the kneeling originally represented to guys like Colin Kaepernick and Michael Bennett. They were protesting a system where cops are more likely to see jail time for killing a dog than they were for killing an unarmed black man.

But the insidious thing about systems of oppression is that they are violently resistant to being overturned. You're seeing IMMENSE militarization of police forces across the country. Body armor, SWAT gear, tactical rifles, ****ing TANKS for Christ's sake! If you dismiss their wrongdoing against one powerless group, why would you think they'd stop there? If the problem gets bad enough that white people start to rise up against it, they will put us down without any more hesitation than they have for putting down POC now unless. we stop them. before. they can. Unless. we speak out. and change the tide. All of us. White. Black. Latino. Native American. Man. Woman. Poor. Middle-class.

Please, think about this. Engage in this conversation with me. Ask me questions. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying because it's coming from a so-called 'L i b t a r d'.

You are so intellectually superior to everyone. Thank goodness we have people like you to tell us the error of our ways.

[Mouldsie]

Am I the only person that doesn't have to stand for the anthem at work? I keep hearing about if other people didn't stand for the anthem at their jobs they'd be fired?? I hope they call the ACLU if it happens...

[Mouldsie]

This is what athletes and movie stars and musicians and other celebrities don't get. They have had their asses kissed for so long, that they think that they are actually smarter than the average Joe, which they're clearly not. This last election was a hilarious repudiation of their lecturing and a true portrayal of how little influence they have outside of their little niche. Getting a reality check that brutal obviously crushed them, which is why you are seeing the meltdown and histrionics.

I agree. Trump is a prima donna

[ICRockets]

You are so intellectually superior to everyone. Thank goodness we have people like you to tell us the error of our ways.

Go F* yourself, you self righteous, wannabe intellectual. Live in the real world for a while.

Since my post elicited in you a negative emotional response, I believe it is safe to presume that you don't consider yourself The Smartest Man In The World, correct? I'm not saying you don't think you're smart, nor am I suggesting that I would refuse to believe you if you said so. I'm strictly operating under the presumption that you accept the premise that there are people on this planet that are smarter than you. That's a fair thing to say about either one of us, irrespective of which one of us is higher on the ladder, isn't it?

So, based on that premise, I have 2 general questions that have nothing to do with our conversation up to this point:

1) Do you believe that listening to people who are smarter than you is a worthy endeavour? Why, or why not?

2) How do you ascribe to any given person an intellect that is superior to your own? (For those of you who aren't smarties like Guap and myself, I'm asking him how he knows somebody's smarter than he is.)

[Skooby]

Since my post elicited in you a negative emotional response, I believe it is safe to presume that you don't consider yourself The Smartest Man In The World, correct? I'm not saying you don't think you're smart, nor am I suggesting that I would refuse to believe you if you said so. I'm strictly operating under the presumption that you accept the premise that there are people on this planet that are smarter than you. That's a fair thing to say about either one of us, irrespective of which one of us is higher on the ladder, isn't it?

So, based on that premise, I have 2 general questions that have nothing to do with our conversation up to this point:

1) Do you believe that listening to people who are smarter than you is a worthy endeavour? Why, or why not?

2) How do you ascribe to any given person an intellect that is superior to your own? (For those of you who aren't smarties like Guap and myself, I'm asking him how he knows somebody's smarter than he is.)

Why does he need to answer to your liberal self, you're not God or his judge (but you seem to think you might be). Get over yourself, for real.

[Ingtar33]

You can't ignore scope for convenience. You can't see something and not pay attention to what it means or you're trying to avoid something and duck responsibility for it because you don't want to think about it.

It's ridiculous to think things should be ignored for anyone's convenience.

It's disgusting and morally repugnant and I don't give a crap if anyone doesn't like my saying it. I guess I was raised different.

Sure I can and will ignore it. Why? Because half of it is just the whining crying of people who lost, and the other half is legit outrage. Either way I don't need someone to preach at me and tell me what I should think about it. I already know what I think about it.

1) Everyone has a RIGHT to free speech.
2) No one has a right to EXEMPTION of CONSEQUENCES for their free speech.
3) Its sports
4) If they really want to make their voices heard they just wouldn't show up on sunday. THAT will work a heck of a lot better then some half assed protest involving kneeling during the anthem

I think half my irritation about this is I know Kaepernick through 2 other people, and both of them have STRONGLY colored my opinion about this whole thing

-both of them don't think Kaepernick even knows what he's protesting, or at least they didn't believe he did when he started it. He's a ****** pot head with a stoner girlfriend, living in SanFran and has about as much intellegence as you'd expect to find in a guy who learned all his philosophy from the fortunes in fortune cookies, and the latest new age hippy movement.

-When he first started kneeling one of the guys said he was doing it for "sympathy" in order to FORCE the 49'ers to keep him on the team and maybe even give him the starting job back by creating "social pressure" on the organisation and the appearance of suppression due to political views if he was benched in favor of Gabbert. A point of view when presented to my other friend who knew him said it was pretty likely his girlfriends plans considering that type of plan would definately be the way she thinks about stuff (I don't know if this is the same girl who tweeted about the ravens ownership being slave masters and ray lewis the slave)

-furthermore I've talked to reporters who KNOW or at least believe Kaepernick didn't even know what black lives matter was about till about christmas of last year, and said they generally thought he was a joke. True or not it matches everything else i've heard about him.

-Finally, something about this protest always seemed so artificial I just can't embrace it. I have no issue with BLM, nor do I have any issue with other NFL stars and backups who've knelt over injustice, but Kaepernick being involved just leaves me feeling empty. Especially since it seems like it was mostly a cynical ploy for sympathy and to force the 9ers to keep his job.



The other half of my irritation is my complete inability to listen to the radio or watch sport center without getting bombarded by this issue 24/7. If I wanted to listen to politics I'd listen to NPR, If I wanted to watch something about politics I'd watch FoxNews or CNN, I don't want to tune into a sports station and get bombarded with moralizing by a bunch of reporters about why I should hate my fellow americans, and feel shame for wanting to like the country. I already am irritated with a number of my fellow americans, even those who technically might be on the same (or similar) side of the political spectrum with me, I don't feel like being told I'm not hating them enough right now. As for hating politicians, I don't think it's possible for me to dislike them more than I already do. As for disliking the president, that was a given as I've disliked him long before he was a public figure, I couldn't even watch Trump's tv show (the "you're fired" one), so having Scott Van Pelt tell me what a slime the man is doesn't break new ground, it just irritates me more.

You might call it burying my head in the sand; and that's precisely what it is. I think I buried it in the sand in 2008 when McCain and Obama quit the campaign to vote for that criminally stupidly and corrupt stimulus package, and never bothered to pull it back out again. At that time washington stopped pretending it was talking for rational human beings; as their irrational and irresponsible behavior was praised by the sycophantic press as "statesmanship" when in reality it was nothing more then the government bailing out their biggest campaign contributors.

But since both parties basically are the same thing, the moral outrage professed by one side about the other rings hollow, childish and cynical to me. Since that's the case, what can an anthem protest possibly tell me I don't already know? Not to vote for trump? I didn't vote for him in the first place. That there are racists in the PD? sure, just as there are in washington, your kid's school, the hospital, the fire department on the street corner and panhandling. That they're mad? I can tell that from the fact they're not standing during the anthem. That they're passive aggressive? That goes without saying. If they were really upset they wouldn't have shown up on sunday. NOW THAT would have been a real and believable protest.

so I think you can dial back the moral outrage. If THIS is what you consider a tipping point then your priorities have been skewed or your so hopelessly naive it's doubtful you're a particularly erudite source of wisdom on any issue involving government.

[jamze132]

What do you call a white guy who teaches his kids that blacks are inferior and that are the scum of the earth?

[feldspar]

I didn't stand for the Pledge of Allegience in high school the last couple of few years. Why? Just because I didn't want to. Wasn't making a statement. Nobody really said much about it. Who cares?

But this whole NFL protest IS trying to make a statement. Do I think it will affect positive change? No, I don't think that at all. I don't think it really "raises awareness" either.

Personally I find it annoying. I won't flip my lid over it, though.

[feldspar]

What do you call a white guy who teaches his kids that blacks are inferior and that are the scum of the earth?

Bubba?

[alohabillsfan]

Apparently you become book smart while spending hours at the all you can eat buffet..may want to read up on diabetes!

[tomz]

First, they are at work. Therefore, they are on their employer's time. Get it?

second, it's clear that you have taken a political side in this. I did not. I don't care about the politics. You do. Therefore your judgement is clouded. Your mind has been made up by your political ideology, not based on anything else. Are you really comparing the USA to Nazi Germany?

You are as much a CNN lover as the other side is a FOX lover.

My apologies. I think I was unclear. First when I said they are doing it on their own time I was referring to the talking.

Re: the other case, you are right. I got a little carried away. My only point boils down to this: both sides of this have feelings about what they see and the feelings of one side may not be obvious to the other. I used an over the top scenario to bring that home.

Re: CNN v Fox, I don't have a tv most of the time so I don't watch either but I do indeed find Fox laughable as a straight 'news' organization. CNN is more centrist than the Fox crowd seem to admit. MSNBC is a better analogy.

Thanks for for your thoughtful comment.

[jamze132]

What do you call a lack guy who teaches his kids that white people are all racists?

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

What do you call a lack guy who teaches his kids that white people are all racists?

a large portion of my extended family, unfortunately.

[ICRockets]

What do you call a white guy who teaches his kids that blacks are inferior and that are the scum of the earth?

A white supremacist.

- - - Updated - - -


What do you call a lack guy who teaches his kids that white people are all racists?

Deeply, aggressively prejudiced.

[ICRockets]

I should note, the above are MY answers to the questions, not necessarily the "right" answers. I don't know that those exist, per se.

[ICRockets]

Why does he need to answer to your liberal self, you're not God or his judge (but you seem to think you might be). Get over yourself, for real.
An unfortunate side effect of posting on message boards is that, on occasion, you're going to run into people who think you enjoy participating in conversations.

[Albany,n.y.]

I am just curious -- how many of you go to your jobs and protest a political ideology every morning?

In my line of work, I have never seen anyone protest anything political before/during/after they started working.

At my work, we are from all different walks of life. I know we all have differing political and social views, but we are there to work and get a job done (and get paid for that effort). I could care less how Joe feels about climate change or a border wall. I need Joe to do his job so I can do mine. Chelsea needs me to do my job so she can do her job. She could care less how I feel about the electoral college.

This is what people are upset about. This is the players' job (playing football). It's not a platform for political gain.

I want to watch football. That's it. If I want to listen to politics, there are plenty of other channels I can turn to in order to get my fill of politics. If players want to make a statement, do it on your time, not the organization's time. There will be an audience. ESPN will cover it, trust me.

Final thoughts. Trump was wrong to get involved in this. The NFL was wrong to take the bait.

Go Bills!
I'm retired, but when I was working they never started the work day by playing the national anthem at any job I held. That in itself makes sporting events different than a typical job. I don't see the players continuing their protest while the game is being played.

[Albany,n.y.]

What do you call a white guy who teaches his kids that blacks are inferior and that are the scum of the earth?

Fred Trump.

Donald idolized his father, a man who was once arrested at a KKK rally.

[sukie]

I find it interesting that the anthem portion of the game was actually televised. This is usually the final "keys to the game segment" in the booth. The first shot of the field is always the kicker pushing in the football's pointed tips and placement on the tee.

[djjimkelly]

So are you (and the OP) bothered at all by the protest. I'm not sure what you guys are getting at.

Since you don't care, are you ignoring it and just paying attention to the game?

i dont mind what they do before the game do whatever they like. but i truly know this is a pointless uneducated view by the players.

my problem is the newspapers espn and the media talking about this 24 hours a day afterwards.

feels to me like an opportunity by the liberal media to keep a truly ridiculius story alive to be anti trump. and i am positive most of these players did this (this weekend) to be anti trump. when i know they have no concept of REAL politics are.

they know CNN politics 10% of the story.

and on a side note i despise lebron again. him going back to cleveland made me like him for the first time. the fact he thinks he knows anything about politics or that his view is the same as his fans makes me want to throw up.

[sahlensguy]

(djjimkelly) i dont mind what they do before the game do whatever they like. but i truly know this is a pointless uneducated view by the players.

Sure many players partied away their education, but their are plenty of athletes who protested who knew what they were protesting about. You are stereotyping.


my problem is the newspapers espn and the media talking about this 24 hours a day afterwards.

That is your problem. I haven't watched ESPN in years.


feels to me like an opportunity by the liberal media to keep a truly ridiculius story alive to be anti trump. and i am positive most of these players did this (this weekend) to be anti trump. when i know they have no concept of REAL politics are.

Well when the president calls players SOBs, what do you expect? Would you not be in solidarity with your teamates after that?


and on a side note i despise lebron again. him going back to cleveland made me like him for the first time. the fact he thinks he knows anything about politics or that his view is the same as his fans makes me want to throw up.

When did Lebron say his view was the same as the fans? I heard him stick up Steph Curry, his fellow competitor.

[ICRockets]

Sure I can and will ignore it. Why? Because half of it is just the whining crying of people who lost, and the other half is legit outrage. Either way I don't need someone to preach at me and tell me what I should think about it. I already know what I think about it.

1) Everyone has a RIGHT to free speech.
2) No one has a right to EXEMPTION of CONSEQUENCES for their free speech.
3) Its sports
4) If they really want to make their voices heard they just wouldn't show up on sunday. THAT will work a heck of a lot better then some half assed protest involving kneeling during the anthem

I think half my irritation about this is I know Kaepernick through 2 other people, and both of them have STRONGLY colored my opinion about this whole thing

-both of them don't think Kaepernick even knows what he's protesting, or at least they didn't believe he did when he started it. He's a ****** pot head with a stoner girlfriend, living in SanFran and has about as much intellegence as you'd expect to find in a guy who learned all his philosophy from the fortunes in fortune cookies, and the latest new age hippy movement.

-When he first started kneeling one of the guys said he was doing it for "sympathy" in order to FORCE the 49'ers to keep him on the team and maybe even give him the starting job back by creating "social pressure" on the organisation and the appearance of suppression due to political views if he was benched in favor of Gabbert. A point of view when presented to my other friend who knew him said it was pretty likely his girlfriends plans considering that type of plan would definately be the way she thinks about stuff (I don't know if this is the same girl who tweeted about the ravens ownership being slave masters and ray lewis the slave)

-furthermore I've talked to reporters who KNOW or at least believe Kaepernick didn't even know what black lives matter was about till about christmas of last year, and said they generally thought he was a joke. True or not it matches everything else i've heard about him.

-Finally, something about this protest always seemed so artificial I just can't embrace it. I have no issue with BLM, nor do I have any issue with other NFL stars and backups who've knelt over injustice, but Kaepernick being involved just leaves me feeling empty. Especially since it seems like it was mostly a cynical ploy for sympathy and to force the 9ers to keep his job.



The other half of my irritation is my complete inability to listen to the radio or watch sport center without getting bombarded by this issue 24/7. If I wanted to listen to politics I'd listen to NPR, If I wanted to watch something about politics I'd watch FoxNews or CNN, I don't want to tune into a sports station and get bombarded with moralizing by a bunch of reporters about why I should hate my fellow americans, and feel shame for wanting to like the country. I already am irritated with a number of my fellow americans, even those who technically might be on the same (or similar) side of the political spectrum with me, I don't feel like being told I'm not hating them enough right now. As for hating politicians, I don't think it's possible for me to dislike them more than I already do. As for disliking the president, that was a given as I've disliked him long before he was a public figure, I couldn't even watch Trump's tv show (the "you're fired" one), so having Scott Van Pelt tell me what a slime the man is doesn't break new ground, it just irritates me more.

You might call it burying my head in the sand; and that's precisely what it is. I think I buried it in the sand in 2008 when McCain and Obama quit the campaign to vote for that criminally stupidly and corrupt stimulus package, and never bothered to pull it back out again. At that time washington stopped pretending it was talking for rational human beings; as their irrational and irresponsible behavior was praised by the sycophantic press as "statesmanship" when in reality it was nothing more then the government bailing out their biggest campaign contributors.

But since both parties basically are the same thing, the moral outrage professed by one side about the other rings hollow, childish and cynical to me. Since that's the case, what can an anthem protest possibly tell me I don't already know? Not to vote for trump? I didn't vote for him in the first place. That there are racists in the PD? sure, just as there are in washington, your kid's school, the hospital, the fire department on the street corner and panhandling. That they're mad? I can tell that from the fact they're not standing during the anthem. That they're passive aggressive? That goes without saying. If they were really upset they wouldn't have shown up on sunday. NOW THAT would have been a real and believable protest.

so I think you can dial back the moral outrage. If THIS is what you consider a tipping point then your priorities have been skewed or your so hopelessly naive it's doubtful you're a particularly erudite source of wisdom on any issue involving government.
This is a ****ing STELLAR political post, btw. You're bang on exactly right about both parties. I should note, in case you aren't aware, that the Democratic Party does not in any way represent a left-wing political ideology. They are firmly center/center-right. So I hope your contempt for them doesn't cloud your perception of what actual liberals advocate for.

[sukie]

I cannot read that much text without bolded sentences and :rofl: strewn about.

[ICRockets]

Sure I can and will ignore it. Why? Because half of it is just the whining crying of people who lost, and the other half is legit outrage. Either way I don't need someone to preach at me and tell me what I should think about it. I already know what I think about it.

1) Everyone has a RIGHT to free speech.
2) No one has a right to EXEMPTION of CONSEQUENCES for their free speech.
3) Its sports
4) If they really want to make their voices heard they just wouldn't show up on sunday. THAT will work a heck of a lot better then some half assed protest involving kneeling during the anthem

I think half my irritation about this is I know Kaepernick through 2 other people, and both of them have STRONGLY colored my opinion about this whole thing

-both of them don't think Kaepernick even knows what he's protesting, or at least they didn't believe he did when he started it. He's a ****** pot head with a stoner girlfriend, living in SanFran and has about as much intellegence as you'd expect to find in a guy who learned all his philosophy from the fortunes in fortune cookies, and the latest new age hippy movement.

-When he first started kneeling one of the guys said he was doing it for "sympathy" in order to FORCE the 49'ers to keep him on the team and maybe even give him the starting job back by creating "social pressure" on the organisation and the appearance of suppression due to political views if he was benched in favor of Gabbert. A point of view when presented to my other friend who knew him said it was pretty likely his girlfriends plans considering that type of plan would definately be the way she thinks about stuff (I don't know if this is the same girl who tweeted about the ravens ownership being slave masters and ray lewis the slave)

-furthermore I've talked to reporters who KNOW or at least believe Kaepernick didn't even know what black lives matter was about till about christmas of last year, and said they generally thought he was a joke. True or not it matches everything else i've heard about him.

-Finally, something about this protest always seemed so artificial I just can't embrace it. I have no issue with BLM, nor do I have any issue with other NFL stars and backups who've knelt over injustice, but Kaepernick being involved just leaves me feeling empty. Especially since it seems like it was mostly a cynical ploy for sympathy and to force the 9ers to keep his job.



I failed to delete this portion of the post when I complimented the good half, so I wanted to take a moment to address it specifically. In reading an editorial by Eric Reid, it sounds like you might be correct about Kaep's intentions when he started his protest, but he very quickly appears to have been properly educated by his teammate and a former Green Beret they consulted with when deciding to kneel for the anthem. Please read this, and understand that there are highly intelligent, socially conscientious players involved in this protest. Are ALL of them the best men among men? Of course not. But that doesn't mean that the top of the movement isn't doing what they genuinely believe is the right thing to do in the most respectful manner possible. Vilifying the movement because of the chattel is deeply misguided.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/25/opinion/colin-kaepernick-football-protests.html?smid=fb-share

[ICRockets]

I cannot read that much text without bolded sentences and :rofl: strewn about.

Don't forget shameless pimping of Hillary Clinton. That's a hallmark of all the best unhinged rants.

[sukie]

Don't forget shameless pimping of Hillary Clinton. That's a hallmark of all the best unhinged rants.
Naturally we will be called out for this (by the yet unnamed)............ then called liars.

[Mouldsie]

I find it interesting that the anthem portion of the game was actually televised. This is usually the final "keys to the game segment" in the booth. The first shot of the field is always the kicker pushing in the football's pointed tips and placement on the tee.

And they didn't start doing it until 2009 when the DOD paid the NFL do to patriot stuff to increase recruitment efforts

[Mouldsie]

The other half of my irritation is my complete inability to listen to the radio or watch sport center without getting bombarded by this issue 24/7. If I wanted to listen to politics I'd listen to NPR, If I wanted to watch something about politics I'd watch FoxNews or CNN, I don't want to tune into a sports station and get bombarded with moralizing by a bunch of reporters about why I should hate my fellow americans, and feel shame for wanting to like the country. I already am irritated with a number of my fellow americans, even those who technically might be on the same (or similar) side of the political spectrum with me, I don't feel like being told I'm not hating them enough right now. As for hating politicians, I don't think it's possible for me to dislike them more than I already do. As for disliking the president, that was a given as I've disliked him long before he was a public figure, I couldn't even watch Trump's tv show (the "you're fired" one), so having Scott Van Pelt tell me what a slime the man is doesn't break new ground, it just irritates me more.

You might call it burying my head in the sand; and that's precisely what it is. I think I buried it in the sand in 2008 when McCain and Obama quit the campaign to vote for that criminally stupidly and corrupt stimulus package, and never bothered to pull it back out again. At that time washington stopped pretending it was talking for rational human beings; as their irrational and irresponsible behavior was praised by the sycophantic press as "statesmanship" when in reality it was nothing more then the government bailing out their biggest campaign contributors.

But since both parties basically are the same thing, the moral outrage professed by one side about the other rings hollow, childish and cynical to me. Since that's the case, what can an anthem protest possibly tell me I don't already know? Not to vote for trump? I didn't vote for him in the first place. That there are racists in the PD? sure, just as there are in washington, your kid's school, the hospital, the fire department on the street corner and panhandling. That they're mad? I can tell that from the fact they're not standing during the anthem. That they're passive aggressive? That goes without saying. If they were really upset they wouldn't have shown up on sunday. NOW THAT would have been a real and believable protest.

so I think you can dial back the moral outrage. If THIS is what you consider a tipping point then your priorities have been skewed or your so hopelessly naive it's doubtful you're a particularly erudite source of wisdom on any issue involving government.
Nailed it. Vote 3rd party.

[Albany,n.y.]

And they didn't start doing it until 2009 when the DOD paid the NFL do to patriot stuff to increase recruitment efforts

Thanks for clearing it up. I had read a post on some message board that appeared to say they didn't do the national anthem until 2009 & I knew that wasn't true. I now know they were talking about the telecast. since I've been going to Bills games since the 1970s and the anthem has always been played.

Speaking of televised anthems, I wonder how many of those on the right who are claiming their (false) patriotism stop everything they're doing and stand silently at attention with their hand over their hearts when the anthem comes on TV at their home. More likely they're popping open another beer, talking to someone when the anthem is played or relieving themselves of the last beer they just drank.

[Bill Cody]

The take a knee thing was not much of a thing before Trump spoke out and called the people doing it SOB's. Only a handful of players were involved and it wasn't getting much attention, partly because it was a vague, poorly thought out protest started by a marginal player with some radical views like cops are pigs and Castro is great. This only became a thing because of Trump. Trump doesn't actually care about anybody taking a knee during the anthem. It was a calculated move to appeal to his base and change the conversation away from his Russia problems, he does this kind of thing all the time in case you haven't noticed. It's basically a troll by Trump and naturally the media and the country is taking the bait. Now taking a knee is about blacks protesting police brutality really aren't SOB's. Can we all just agree on that and skip the drama going forward?

[ckg927]

I love how so many white people think they get to tell black people that they're OBVIOUSLY stupid to think racism is a problem.

That's "white-splaining" at its finest.

[ckg927]

That's all that need be said.

NFL roster players are millionaire. They can use their wealth and "idol" status to influence others about things they are recently passionate about, in venues other that the playing field.

Let's see if they do.
They have done so.

They just don't get the ink and airtime that this matter is.

[sukie]

They have done so.

They just don't get the ink and airtime that this matter is.

So Trump did something good bringing all this to light.

[Mr. Pink]

I don't understand why the kneeling bothers anyone or the dumbass comments some of the players make.

They're not your friends, they're not your family and they are not role models. They are just people who are celebrities because they can play a kids game very well.

If you don't want to see the kneeling, tune in at 1:15 or walk through the gate at 1:15. If you don't want to hear their inane drivel, don't watch or listen to the postgame press conferences.

I watch football to be entertained not get social commentary or worldview from people who are so separated from reality their viewpoint is the one that's told to them.

Jackie Robinson fought real racial inequalities and dealt with real problems, not Colin Kaepernick nor Jerry Hughes nor LeSean McCoy.

And let's not pretend sports have any type of moral high ground to stand on. Donte Stallworth kills someone while driving drunk and is still allowed to play, Michael Vick runs a dog fighting ring and is still allowed to play, Ray Lewis at the very least obstructed justice during a murder case and is still allowed to play, Jamal Lewis was a drug dealer and is still allowed to play, Kevin Mack was trafficking drugs and still allowed to play etc etc etc, and that's just football.

If you're gonna boycott the game because players are kneeling during the anthem, where the hell were you when players were committing murder and still given a contract? It's an odd thing to make a stand about.

[Albany,n.y.]

Jackie Robinson fought real racial inequalities and dealt with real problems, not Colin Kaepernick nor Jerry Hughes nor LeSean McCoy.

.

Maybe not Kaepernick or Hughes, but you can't say the same thing about Shady. He had a bunch of cops trying to get him arrested & convicted in Philly on charges that were subsequently dropped. The state attorney general had to step in because the police were pressing so hard.

[ticatfan]

Thank you for your thoughtful response!Better then your ''every white is racist crap''.

[ICRockets]

Better then your ''every white is racist crap''.
You should try reading the actual thread, where I explicitly express a viewpoint that is completely not this.

[Night Train]

Yes, that's what he's saying. Did you miss the "bag of hammers" part of his comment?

Oh the irony.

[ICRockets]

Oh the irony.

What irony would that be? You are aware- I assume- that "bag of hammers" is a pejorative meant to impugn one's intelligence, are you not?

If so, then by referring to a group of predominantly African-American players whose protest is explicitly against the institutional racism of our criminal justice system by that derogatory term you are calling black people stupid for asserting that racism is a problem.

[Night Train]

What irony would that be? You are aware- I assume- that "bag of hammers" is a pejorative meant to impugn one's intelligence, are you not?

If so, then by referring to a group of predominantly African-American players whose protest is explicitly against the institutional racism of our criminal justice system by that derogatory term you are calling black people stupid for asserting that racism is a problem.


No...I'm referring to THE ANNOUNCERS, you babbling soap box preaching twit..

[ICRockets]

No...I'm referring to THE ANNOUNCERS, you babbling soap box preaching twit..

Ah, gotcha. Thanks for clarifying that right away instead of being a snarky *******.

[ICRockets]

Based on the definition of racism preferred by a small-yet-growing section of the Progressive population, yes only white people can be racist. However, before you Hulk out over that concept, I'd like you to allow me to explain it further.

Essentially, the general idea behind defining racism the way these people (including myself, though I don't use this definition around here because most of the posters on this board are too conservative to entertain radical concepts) define it is that the word 'racism' applies exclusively to systems of racial oppression or discrimination. Since white Americans do not experience racial oppression/discrimination, they are not victims of racism. Since people of color do not historically possess the power to oppress or discriminate white Americans on the basis of their race, they cannot be racist.

HOWEVER- and this is why I like this definition of the word more than the traditional definition- what this means is that VERY FEW WHITE PEOPLE CAN BE DESCRIBED AS RACISTS. In order to fit my preferred definition of being a 'racist' you must be a conscious participant in the systemic oppression or discrimination of people of color. Are you a landlord who routinely refuses to rent or sublet to POC? You're a racist. Are you an electrician who marched at Charlottesville? You are not a racist.

Now, that doesn't mean you're entirely absolved if you are that hypothetical Charlottesville tradesman. You are still prejudiced. You still have a racial bias. But I find those words to be less charged with contempt toward the biased party, and more with frustration and disappointment. And if you're white, you can still be the victim of a POC's prejudice or racial bias. So I'm not suggesting that people of color are the only ones who've had to endure such a thing.

Nor am I suggesting that racism is the only system of oppression that exists in the U.S. Far, far, far from it. There's sexism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than misogyny), classism (which is different, if we're using the corresponding definition, than snobbery), ageism, etc.

I know from experience that a lot of you are going to bristle at the notion that you can't call a black person racist. You're not going to be able to fathom the full weight of what I'm saying, so you're going to feel attacked. That is the exact WRONG reaction. The point of re-defining what these '-isms' represent is to unite us against our mutual oppressors. Because make no mistake, we're all being oppressed by a lot of the same systems. The difference is that oppression and discrimination based on race, specifically, is an epidemic within police departments and judicial systems across America. THAT is what the kneeling originally represented to guys like Colin Kaepernick and Michael Bennett. They were protesting a system where cops are more likely to see jail time for killing a dog than they were for killing an unarmed black man.

But the insidious thing about systems of oppression is that they are violently resistant to being overturned. You're seeing IMMENSE militarization of police forces across the country. Body armor, SWAT gear, tactical rifles, ****ing TANKS for Christ's sake! If you dismiss their wrongdoing against one powerless group, why would you think they'd stop there? If the problem gets bad enough that white people start to rise up against it, they will put us down without any more hesitation than they have for putting down POC now unless. we stop them. before. they can. Unless. we speak out. and change the tide. All of us. White. Black. Latino. Native American. Man. Woman. Poor. Middle-class.

Please, think about this. Engage in this conversation with me. Ask me questions. Don't just dismiss what I'm saying because it's coming from a so-called 'L i b t a r d'.

I find it interesting that a post where I suggested we could talk about race relations in a way that doesn't end with accusations of "YOU'RE A RACIST!" thrown around willy-nilly was met by the people who would be most likely to be otherwise called racists under circumstances they would surely argue were unfair with either contempt or apathy.

I offered a way to move past such personal attacks, and the reaction was a big ol' "Meh"

Why is that? Why would that not be an attractive prospect, to re-define who and what belongs in the "Basket of Deplorables" in a way that exempts most (if not all) of us?

[kishoph]

I don't understand why the kneeling bothers anyone or the dumbass comments some of the players make.

They're not your friends, they're not your family and they are not role models. They are just people who are celebrities because they can play a kids game very well.

If you don't want to see the kneeling, tune in at 1:15 or walk through the gate at 1:15. If you don't want to hear their inane drivel, don't watch or listen to the postgame press conferences.

I watch football to be entertained not get social commentary or worldview from people who are so separated from reality their viewpoint is the one that's told to them.

Jackie Robinson fought real racial inequalities and dealt with real problems, not Colin Kaepernick nor Jerry Hughes nor LeSean McCoy.

And let's not pretend sports have any type of moral high ground to stand on. Donte Stallworth kills someone while driving drunk and is still allowed to play, Michael Vick runs a dog fighting ring and is still allowed to play, Ray Lewis at the very least obstructed justice during a murder case and is still allowed to play, Jamal Lewis was a drug dealer and is still allowed to play, Kevin Mack was trafficking drugs and still allowed to play etc etc etc, and that's just football.

If you're gonna boycott the game because players are kneeling during the anthem, where the hell were you when players were committing murder and still given a contract? It's an odd thing to make a stand about.

Today I agree with you. I don't know if it was disappointment, bandwagon jumping or the ongoing suck of the NFL that got me emotionally involved in all this. Today, I could care less if every player knelt or whatever. Although I am also done investing any time, money or emotions into the game. I'll still watch, because I loved the game for so long, but I will no longer plan any Sunday around football. The NFL corporation has wrecked the game I loved playing as a kid, a teenager and young adult. This is not the game of football I fell in love with.

[Historian]

First, they are at work. Therefore, they are on their employer's time. Get it?


https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22007705_2071880433032869_5564761672465464726_n.jpg?oh=b0af242d3d0d2251c499f57a929ae204&oe=5A562D6F

[THATHURMANATOR]

And let's not pretend sports have any type of moral high ground to stand on. Donte Stallworth kills someone while driving drunk and is still allowed to play, Michael Vick runs a dog fighting ring and is still allowed to play, Ray Lewis at the very least obstructed justice during a murder case and is still allowed to play, Jamal Lewis was a drug dealer and is still allowed to play, Kevin Mack was trafficking drugs and still allowed to play etc etc etc, and that's just football.

If you're gonna boycott the game because players are kneeling during the anthem, where the hell were you when players were committing murder and still given a contract? It's an odd thing to make a stand about.

Yes this 100%.....

I have no issue at all if someone kneels. I have no issue at all if someone doesn't like that someone is kneeling.

However in listening to the radio, reading Facebook, Reading Twitter etc there are so many people out there that take things to the next level (ON BOTH SIDES)

People need to stop BLINDLY spouting off without giving the other side any thought.

I will admit to being on the side of the players on this issue. I think Trump has completely split our country. Anytime I hear him speak or his insane rants pop up on my Twitter I think what is wrong with this guy? He seems like he is mentally ill but I won't completely dismiss most anyone's feelings on the issue without trying to first understand where they are coming from.

What bugs me most is Trump inflamed this whole NFL issue for no reason. We have 3 natural disasters within the last month that are ongoing issues and the threat of war. WTF is he doing???? FOCUS ON THAT

It is sad really. I have read and heard some really nasty stuff from colleagues and acquaintances as well. My opinions on those people has completely changed. Some to the point of no longer wanting to be associated with them. I wonder if they realize how they sound or if they care at all?

[BertSquirtgum]

Thank you for your thoughtful response!

How do you fit in the 100 level seats at the game?

[Wally The Barber]

This reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses,they knock on my door every 3 weeks EVEN THOUGH I TELL THEM I AM NOT INTERESTED, nothing will stop them as they continue to come back, over and over and over.
Its not that I hate them but I grow tired of listening

[Bill Cody]

This reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses,they knock on my door every 3 weeks EVEN THOUGH I TELL THEM I AM NOT INTERESTED, nothing will stop them as they continue to come back, over and over and over.
Its not that I hate them but I grow tired of listening

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G80qimFAgQA

[Albany,n.y.]

This reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses,they knock on my door every 3 weeks EVEN THOUGH I TELL THEM I AM NOT INTERESTED, nothing will stop them as they continue to come back, over and over and over.
Its not that I hate them but I grow tired of listening

If every time they knock on your door you kill one of them, they'll eventually stop coming back.
The only possible flaw is if you get a cellmate who is a Jehovah Witness, you won't be able to get away from him.

[Mouldsie]

That's "white-splaining" at its finest.

and that's a stupid phrase

[Mr. Pink]

Easy solution to the Jehovahs.

Stop answering the door when they show up, after a while they'll stop showing up.

[ICRockets]

Easy solution to the Jehovahs.

Stop answering the door when they show up, after a while they'll stop showing up.

Or, conversely, answer the door with cupcakes every time they show up and tell them it's your birthday and nobody showed up to your party and ask if they'll help you celebrate.

[feldspar]

The Bible thumpers came to my door like tens days ago...old Dell and his wife Jackie decided to come by and talk to me about angels for a bit. I humored them and took their pamphlet, which I'll never read. I was nice. Read to me verse 20 from whatever the **** and so on. As soon as I opened the door, I just knew what was what.

One time, the Jehovah's Witnesses came to my house, and I let them in, sat down and discussed what they think. Then then came back and gave me a book that must have cost $20. Then then came back again, again, and once more. I had to duck them. They insist they aren't trying to "convert" you, but that's just exactly what they are up to.

[BLUTO]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G80qimFAgQA

I love the original post and the youtube clip - - so true!

[DraftBoy]

Easy solution is go to your Neighborhood Association, pass a quick No Solicitation rule and then enforce it.

[ICRockets]

go to your Neighborhood Association

You are the whitest person ever. :D

[Historian]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008097_1513020532068971_7415257504320729533_n.jpg?oh=e5c116ce02b019f719d6d9f4380ac506&oe=5A55B16F

[DraftBoy]

You are the whitest person ever. :D

Close.

The whitest person ever was my neighbor who called the cops for a church group who was soliciting and had them all issued citations and fined.

I felt bad for them because it was extremely embarrassing and the whole neighborhood watched it happen.

[sahlensguy]

https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22008097_1513020532068971_7415257504320729533_n.jpg?oh=e5c116ce02b019f719d6d9f4380ac506&oe=5A55B16F

18037

that one made me laugh.

[endzone]

18037

that one made me laugh.

great clip!!!!!!!!!!

[Chet]

ugh...I feel like I just walked into a Starbucks

[ICRockets]

How do you fit in the 100 level seats at the game?
It's not easy, bro. We had to remove the cupholders because I kept knocking my chin on them during the anthem.

[swiper]

One more thought don't tell me to just ignore it. It has been discussed before, during and after the games. It is all the sports media cares to talk about.

The media is after one thing... viewers. This sort of junk fires people up. The viewership is going to increase.