The NFL is fixed

[Goobylal]

There is no other conclusion after watching that Cheaters-Jets game. A real black eye for the NFL.

[Night Train]

The NFL prefers the term " Choreographed "

[Goobylal]

The NFL prefers the term " Choreographed "

I guess. It's "entertainment" after all and allowed to be scripted.

[YardRat]

It's been that way this entire century.

No combination of owner/coach/player has dominated any sports league, ever, for as long as Kraft/Belicheck/Brady have the NFL in the 2000's.

[Wally The Barber]

The entire league is owned by Jimmy Hoffa who lives in Cuba

[sudzy]

I guess. It's "entertainment" after all and allowed to be scripted.
Belichick distracted the ref so Hightower could hit McCown with the steel chair.

[Scumbag College]

That was so egregious that even Fouts, the other commentator, and every other network shill "Yes Man" had to call bull**** on that ruling.

[Skooby]

I finally got to see that play & I’m not sure how they found a way to take it away or reverse it.

[Mouldsie]

Atrocious.

[BertSquirtgum]

Until his dying day my grandpa swore up and down that the NFL was fixed and always has been since the 70s. By collusion between the NFL and Vegas. It's really ****ing obvious and embarrassing at times such as this.

[Mace]

Meh.

If the NFL was fixed you'd obviously see success spread out across the markets and no eternal failures, or you'd be alienating consumers. Titles would revolve around the biggest markets.and biggest revenue. I'm not seeing Dallas raking titles in, the Jets, Rams, new LA Chargers should be rolling in wins, more Florida success, etc etc. Cleveland wouldn't keep losing, the old franchise Bears would get their turn, no reason whatever to cater to wee lil Green Bay, and why would the Pats get all that love instead of NYC or LA ?

Because it's not.

[BertSquirtgum]

I would bet my life that certain games are fixed every week.

[Mr. Miyagi]

It's been fixed in the Cheatriots' favor since the Tuck Rule.

[yordad]

Da fux? The dude fumbled. No fix.

[Ingtar33]

Da fux? The dude fumbled. No fix.

yes he did. the problem is the play on the field was called a touchdown.

The ref needed full and undeniable proof that the dude not only fumbled, but that he failed to get control of the ball before landing out of bounds. The real problem with this isn't the fumble. he clearly fumbled. the problem is you can't see where he regained control. By taking the ball away from the jets to rule it a touchback the ref gifted the pats. you can't convince me that there was visual proof that the runner failed to recover the ball before going out of bounds.

[kishoph]

I can't say the NFL is "fixed", I will say the officiating is the worst I remember ever seeing. With the technology of today, final calls should have a lot more consistency.

[YardRat]

Just for the sake of discussion....


Meh.
If the NFL was fixed you'd obviously see success spread out across the markets and no eternal failures, or you'd be alienating consumers.

Not necessarily...people in general love to have a common enemy...someone to universally root against and hoping 'your guy' can beat the bad guy. See...Tom Brady and Pro Wrestling 101.


Titles would revolve around the biggest markets.and biggest revenue.

Biggest market does not automatically = biggest revenue. Shared profit from an almost saturated market = more overall revenue than profit from 6 large markets.


I'm not seeing Dallas raking titles in, the Jets, Rams, new LA Chargers should be rolling in wins, more Florida success, etc etc. Cleveland wouldn't keep losing, the old franchise Bears would get their turn, no reason whatever to cater to wee lil Green Bay, and why would the Pats get all that love instead of NYC or LA ?


Most teams are lucky to have one or two 'franchise' QB's in their history...Dallas has ALWAYS had one going back to the 70's (early/late draft pick...street FA...doesn't matter how acquired) not to mention other marquee players at the offensive skill positions. The Giants are in NY too, and I will bet my avatar that one of the LA teams wins a Super Bowl in the next three seasons.

Because it's not.

Maybe not rigged to the point of being completely choreographed and every result pre-determined, but there is no doubt whatsoever that certain teams and players are favored...I don't think there is even a question about that. There are WAY too many WTF? moments to dismiss the possibility.

[Forward_Lateral]

That will go down in the top 5 worst calls in NFL history.

[jamze132]

The ref said he fumbled the ball a second time and wasn’t recovered until the ball was out of bounds..which would make it a touchback and change of position. Only problem... there is video that clearly shows him not fumbling a second time. He has possession before hitting the pylon and going out of bounds. PLUS they initially called it a ****ing TD!!! How can you say there is indisputable evidence to the contrary? The Bills got away with a couple of **** calls against Atlanta too.

The referees are the ones to blame and they’re the only ones who can consciously affect the outcome of a game.

[Pennywise]

If I thought the NFL was fixed I'd stop watching it immediately.

[psubills62]

I didn't see this play. Based on the comments, I'm assuming it's another case of the runner fumbling out the back of the end zone?

Just my opinion, but the fact that fumbling out the back of the end zone gives the ball to the other team is possibly the absolute worst rule in football. EVERY other time a player fumbles forward on the field, if it goes out of bounds, it comes back to the spot where the player fumbled and that team keeps the ball. There is no reason they can't make it the same way for fumbling out the back of the end zone. Makes zero sense to me that they other team gets the ball without having to recover it or get any possession.

[swiper]

I didn't see this play. Based on the comments, I'm assuming it's another case of the runner fumbling out the back of the end zone?

Just my opinion, but the fact that fumbling out the back of the end zone gives the ball to the other team is possibly the absolute worst rule in football. EVERY other time a player fumbles forward on the field, if it goes out of bounds, it comes back to the spot where the player fumbled and that team keeps the ball. There is no reason they can't make it the same way for fumbling out the back of the end zone. Makes zero sense to me that they other team gets the ball without having to recover it or get any possession.

It wasn't really a fumble. He jostled the ball for a second while he still had both arms around it. He never lost possession of the ball. It never hit the ground. The initial call of touchdown was correct. Overturning it was criminal.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It wasn't really a fumble. He jostled the ball for a second while he still had both arms around it. He never lost possession of the ball. It never hit the ground. The initial call of touchdown was correct. Overturning it was criminal.

Are you sure?

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/austin_seferian-jenkins.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&strip=all

[Mr. Pink]

That call could have gone either way, imo.

I don't see the conclusive evidence to overturn the call on the field though.

There's no way to see if Sefarian Jenkins had or didn't have control of the football as he hit the pylon. You can tell he did not have control as he was about to fall forward but not if he regained control before hitting the ground and pylon and came out the other side with control.

Call on the field should have stood.

[Bill Cody]

Are you sure?

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/austin_seferian-jenkins.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&strip=all

wow cool pic

- - - Updated - - -

wait so is the NFL fixed or not? Need to let my bookie know if I'm in or out this week?

[Night Train]

wow cool pic
- - - Updated - - -wait so is the NFL fixed or not? Need to let my bookie know if I'm in or out this week?

It's fixed. Bet WWE wrestling matches instead. They're more legit than Patriots games.

[swiper]

Are you sure?

https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2017/10/austin_seferian-jenkins.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&strip=all

ROFL. That picture is SOOOOOOO photoshopped. I watched the game. It was nothing like that. Watch the video replay.

[swiper]

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21036046/new-york-jets-upset-baffled-apparent-touchdown-turned-fumble-replay-review

[DynaPaul]

There is no other conclusion after watching that Cheaters-Jets game. A real black eye for the NFL.

Wow, you're just now seeing it? The refs were fixing it all up before halftime.

[ckg927]

I would bet my life that certain games are fixed every week.

And you'd likely lose that bet.

[ckg927]

If you want to see this entire thread get the equivalent of the Ice Bucket Challenge, may I suggest you read Richard Roeper's book Debunked; he devotes a chapter(titled The NFL: National Fixed-Ball League)to blowing apart any number of conspiracy theories about the NFL.

[Mr. Pink]

ROFL. That picture is SOOOOOOO photoshopped. I watched the game. It was nothing like that. Watch the video replay.

That picture is not photoshopped, it's what actually happened.

However there's no clear way to tell if he regained or didn't have control when he got to the pylon. And because the call on the field was TD, that's the way it should have stayed. Likewise, if this was ruled a touchback on the field, that's the call that should have stood.

There was no conclusive evidence that he did or did not have control of the ball when he hit the pylon.

[OpIv37]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I don't think the league is rigged. You'd need too many people to go along with it and someone would refuse to cooperate and/or blow the whistle.

But it's naive to think that the league doesn't have preferred outcomes. They want marketable players, and wins in larger and/o more fickle markets. So, if there's an opportunity to make a big call go toward the league's preferred outcome without making it blatantly obvious, I think the refs go for it.

Patriots "fans"'are as fickle as they come. The Jets were supposed to be the worst team in the history of ever, but they've actually been decent and have a shot at winning a weak div if things hold up. They've already won their fans back. Meanwhile, fans are scattering out of Gillete while the 4th quarter is still being played like roaches when you turn on the lights in a South Boston soup kitchen.

The refs gave the Pats the assist by not calling all the pushing off by their WR's in the final drive against Houston and they did it again against the Jets. Can't let that big market go sour on the team....

[starrymessenger]

The ref said he fumbled the ball a second time and wasn’t recovered until the ball was out of bounds..which would make it a touchback and change of position. Only problem... there is video that clearly shows him not fumbling a second time. He has possession before hitting the pylon and going out of bounds. PLUS they initially called it a ****ing TD!!! How can you say there is indisputable evidence to the contrary? The Bills got away with a couple of **** calls against Atlanta too.

The referees are the ones to blame and they’re the only ones who can consciously affect the outcome of a game.

Exactly. The refs and reviewer see exactly the same tape as everyone else. The ref/reviewer is the only one who saw a second loss of possession. Thats millions of viewers (less Pats fans) and the network crews vs the ref/reviewer. It just never happened. What made it worse was the refs post game comment that the fumble through the endzone was "obvious". Ignorance and dishonesty stoked with arrogance. And that wasnt the only Pats friendly call. Jets receiver takes a helmet to the face, head just about spins 360, flag thrown and, of course, picked up. Gronk absolutely mugs Adams, PI (of course). Then we have to look at Brady participating in every ref caucus as if he was a zebra. Any other player gets pushed away. Dont those idiots in the League office realize what that looks like?

[starrymessenger]

That picture is not photoshopped, it's what actually happened.

However there's no clear way to tell if he regained or didn't have control when he got to the pylon. And because the call on the field was TD, that's the way it should have stayed. Likewise, if this was ruled a touchback on the field, that's the call that should have stood.

There was no conclusive evidence that he did or did not have control of the ball when he hit the pylon.

There were two AP still frames shots from the back of the endzone showing that he clearly reestablished possession before crossing the plane inbounds. There was no second loss of possession as claimed by Corrente.

[Arm of Harm]

There were two AP still frames shots from the back of the endzone showing that he clearly reestablished possession before crossing the plane inbounds. There was no second loss of possession as claimed by Corrente.

Correct. The play should have been ruled a TD.

That said, the picture posted earlier in this thread is accurate, and is not Photoshopped. At about 56 seconds into the video (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21036046/new-york-jets-upset-baffled-apparent-touchdown-turned-fumble-replay-review), you can see that the ball has left his control. It's exactly the same story told by the picture.

[starrymessenger]

Correct. The play should have been ruled a TD.

That said, the picture posted earlier in this thread is accurate, and is not Photoshopped. At about 56 seconds into the video (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21036046/new-york-jets-upset-baffled-apparent-touchdown-turned-fumble-replay-review), you can see that the ball has left his control. It's exactly the same story told by the picture.

Absolutely he lost possession for a moment. The ref/reviewer was basing his decision on a second loss of possession for which there was no visual evidence (because it simply never happened).

[Joe Fo Sho]

ROFL. That picture is SOOOOOOO photoshopped. I watched the game. It was nothing like that. Watch the video replay.

Ha, of course it photoshopped...jesus.


http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21036046/new-york-jets-upset-baffled-apparent-touchdown-turned-fumble-replay-review

Pause that video at 0:47 and at 0:56 and you can see that the ball is loose. Or is that video shopped too?

Here's a screenshot that I just took. There's no denying that he lost possession of the ball.

https://i.imgur.com/d0JdKV5.png

[Mouldsie]

Horrible call. Why would anyone defend it?


Even ignoring the fact that he had regained "control" while crossing the goal-line (which makes the debate about whether or not the ball was loose obsolete): How can one lose possession of the football that never leaves their body, touches the ground, or touches an opponent? Not only that but how was there any evidence to overturn the call on the field?

[kishoph]

Horrible call. Why would anyone defend it?


Even ignoring the fact that he had regained "control" while crossing the goal-line (which makes the debate about whether or not the ball was loose obsolete): How can one lose possession of the football that never leaves their body, touches the ground, or touches an opponent? Not only that but how was there any evidence to overturn the call on the field?

This bothers me, for weeks we've been told that unless there is irrefutable evidence on the replay, they were sticking with the call on the field. Again the lack of any consistency in the officiating.

[YardRat]

C'mon, some of you need to shed the denial once and for all. The simple answer to any question, ANY question, is "Because it's the Patriots".

[Historian]

I don't think it's fixed, but I do believe they know who the playoff teams/contenders will be at the spring league meetings.

It's about advertising bucks, and the Buffalos and the Cincinnatis simply don't rate.

[Bill Cody]

ROFL. That picture is SOOOOOOO photoshopped. I watched the game. It was nothing like that. Watch the video replay.

http://nypost.com/2017/10/16/nfl-has-no-doubt-about-fumble-call-that-ruined-jets/

So the NY Post is in on the conspiracy too? The ball was LOOSE. And the NFL isn't just doubling down on the call they're tripling down. Seriously you guys with your NE envy make me laugh. Pre 2001 NE was as star crossed a franchise as Buffalo, maybe more so. I'm not a fan of whiners or excuse makers or conspiracy theory people, they bore me. Draft a Tom Brady and magically we'll start getting lucky.

[Bill Cody]

I don't think it's fixed, but I do believe they know who the playoff teams/contenders will be at the spring league meetings.

It's about advertising bucks, and the Buffalos and the Cincinnatis simply don't rate.

So they LET Cincinnati make the playoffs the last 5 years in a row but then make them lose once the playoffs start? Trying to follow the conspiracy. And what about that hot bed market Green Bay Wisconsin? Did they engineer that hit on Rodgers to keep them out?

[swiper]

http://nypost.com/2017/10/16/nfl-has-no-doubt-about-fumble-call-that-ruined-jets/

So the NY Post is in on the conspiracy too? The ball was LOOSE.

He had possession before he bobbled it. A bobble is NOT a fumble. The ball did not hit the ground.

He possessed it, then he bobbled it momentarily, then he possessed it again when he hit the ground. Touchdown.

[Joe Fo Sho]

He had possession before he bobbled it. A bobble is NOT a fumble. The ball did not hit the ground.

He possessed it, then he bobbled it momentarily, then he possessed it again when he hit the ground. Touchdown.

He lost possession momentarily? Do you have an unaltered image/video of this happening?

[swiper]

He lost possession momentarily? Do you have an unaltered image/video of this happening?

Yes. Do you?

Ball did NOT hit the ground.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Yes. Do you?

Ball did NOT hit the ground.

That doesn't mean he didn't fumble.

[swiper]

That doesn't mean he didn't fumble.

It does.

And even if it did, he had possession in the end zone.

[Joe Fo Sho]

It does.

Do you really not know what a fumble is?

[Mr. Pink]

Do you really not know what a fumble is?

To be fair that NFL has made it so fans have no idea what a fumble or catch is anymore.

[Joe Fo Sho]

To be fair that NFL has made it so fans have no idea what a fumble or catch is anymore.

You've heard people say that they don't know what a fumble is? It's pretty clear, unlike what a catch is.

[Mr. Pink]

You've heard people say that they don't know what a fumble is? It's pretty clear, unlike what a catch is.

Yeah the difference between a completion and fumble and an incompletion and what constitutes a football move.

This situation with Sefarain Jenkins is different than that obviously, but the NFL itself has blurred the lines on what constitutes possession.

[Joe Fo Sho]

Yeah the difference between a completion and fumble and an incompletion and what constitutes a football move.

This is only confusing because no one knows what a catch is anymore, though. I've never seen any controversy when it comes strictly to a fumble, because it's incredibly straight forward.


This situation with Sefarain Jenkins is different than that obviously, but the NFL itself has blurred the lines on what constitutes possession.

Gaining possession is where the problem lies. No one knows when possession is actually obtained anymore. Losing possession, aka a fumble, is pretty understood.

[Bill Cody]

He had possession before he bobbled it. A bobble is NOT a fumble. The ball did not hit the ground.

He possessed it, then he bobbled it momentarily, then he possessed it again when he hit the ground. Touchdown.

The ref explained the call. He understands the rules. You don't. A bobble as you call is a loss of possession by rule. He has to regain possession which includes surviving landing on the ground which he did not do. You can dislike the rule but that's a separate issue.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2017/10/15/heres-why-refs-overturned-the-jets-touchdown-and-called-it-a-fumble

[senseofdoom]

The ref explained the call. He understands the rules. You don't. A bobble as you call is a loss of possession by rule. He has to regain possession which includes surviving landing on the ground which he did not do. You can dislike the rule but that's a separate issue.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2017/10/15/heres-why-refs-overturned-the-jets-touchdown-and-called-it-a-fumble

The ball is clearly still in his hands after the play is over. Therefore, bull****.

[Bill Cody]

The ball is clearly still in his hands after the play is over. Therefore, bull****.

If he had possession when he crossed the goal line it would have been a TD. He didn't. By the time he regained possession he was OB in the end zone. Watch the sequence below.

https://www.boston.com/sports/new-england-patriots/2017/10/16/an-illustrated-explanation-of-the-overturned-jets-touchdown

[Arm of Harm]

http://nypost.com/2017/10/16/nfl-has-no-doubt-about-fumble-call-that-ruined-jets/

So the NY Post is in on the conspiracy too? The ball was LOOSE. And the NFL isn't just doubling down on the call they're tripling down. Seriously you guys with your NE envy make me laugh. Pre 2001 NE was as star crossed a franchise as Buffalo, maybe more so. I'm not a fan of whiners or excuse makers or conspiracy theory people, they bore me. Draft a Tom Brady and magically we'll start getting lucky.

Let's say that there's a group of runners who regularly race against each other. There's one guy in particular who always wins. How should the other runners feel about that guy? Should they blame him for training too hard, being born with too much talent, trying too hard? Should their attitude be, this guy is a real jerk for doing as well as he's doing?

Clearly, it would be foolish and misguided to hate the guy who comes in first because he's too good. And yet, I sometimes see exactly that same attitude from Bills fans. We're told that we're supposed to blame Miami for 0-for-the-'70s, instead of blaming One Bills Drive for their failure to take even one win from the Dolphins during that decade. More recently, we're supposed to blame the Patriots for being very good for a very long time, instead of blaming the Bills for being mediocre/underwhelming for an equally long time.

If one guy is winning a lot of races, it's not his responsibility to slow down or become worse so that other runners can beat him from time to time. If a football team is winning a lot of games, it's not their responsibility to play less than their best, in order to improve the records of their weaker division opponents.

That said, I can't condone the Patriots' cheating. (Which I blame mostly on Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick.)

[Joe Fo Sho]

Let's say that there's a group of runners who regularly race against each other. There's one guy in particular who always wins. How should the other runners feel about that guy? Should they blame him for training too hard, being born with too much talent, trying too hard? Should their attitude be, this guy is a real jerk for doing as well as he's doing?

Clearly, it would be foolish and misguided to hate the guy who comes in first because he's too good. And yet, I sometimes see exactly that same attitude from Bills fans. We're told that we're supposed to blame Miami for 0-for-the-'70s, instead of blaming One Bills Drive for their failure to take even one win from the Dolphins during that decade. More recently, we're supposed to blame the Patriots for being very good for a very long time, instead of blaming the Bills for being mediocre/underwhelming for an equally long time.

If one guy is winning a lot of races, it's not his responsibility to slow down or become worse so that other runners can beat him from time to time. If a football team is winning a lot of games, it's not their responsibility to play less than their best, in order to improve the records of their weaker division opponents.

That said, I can't condone the Patriots' cheating. (Which I blame mostly on Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick.)

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a single Bills fan that doesn't blame the Bills for their inadequacy.

[OpIv37]

Let's say that there's a group of runners who regularly race against each other. There's one guy in particular who always wins. How should the other runners feel about that guy? Should they blame him for training too hard, being born with too much talent, trying too hard? Should their attitude be, this guy is a real jerk for doing as well as he's doing?

Clearly, it would be foolish and misguided to hate the guy who comes in first because he's too good. And yet, I sometimes see exactly that same attitude from Bills fans. We're told that we're supposed to blame Miami for 0-for-the-'70s, instead of blaming One Bills Drive for their failure to take even one win from the Dolphins during that decade. More recently, we're supposed to blame the Patriots for being very good for a very long time, instead of blaming the Bills for being mediocre/underwhelming for an equally long time.

If one guy is winning a lot of races, it's not his responsibility to slow down or become worse so that other runners can beat him from time to time. If a football team is winning a lot of games, it's not their responsibility to play less than their best, in order to improve the records of their weaker division opponents.

That said, I can't condone the Patriots' cheating. (Which I blame mostly on Robert Kraft and Bill Belichick.)

A few things:
1. As Joe pointed out, most Bills fans are critical of the team and the FO at least to some degree
2. To go back to the running example, no, you can't really blame the winner for winning. But you also can't blame the other runners for getting frustrated and resnrful over the fact that they can't beat the winner
3. Whenever it looks like someone may be fast enough to catch the winner, the officials allow him a half step head start or look away when he pulls another runner back by the jersey, calls another runner for pulling the back of the winner's jersey when it never happened, etc. That leads to more frustration and resentment.

And, as you mentioned, the cheating.....