Recycling in the draft...

[WG]

I've heard some folks mention that if McGahee doesn't sign, he can "recycle" himself in next year's draft.

I know I've asked before, and if someone answered, I apologize for not finding the response, but is that what will happen if he doesn't sign?

I always thought that if terms couldn't be reached, that a player is the under the rights of the team that signed him.

No?

[EricStratton]

A player can enter the next years draft, up until then his rights are owned by the team who drafted him.

[TedMock]

beat me to it.

[Pride]

Of course, McGahee needs to consider... who wants a RB who:

1. Hasn't played in 2 years
2. Never played a down in the NFL
3. Has an agent like Drew R.

[HenryRules]

I'm not faulting wys on this ... just a general statement about the board. I think that we're getting way ahead of ourselves on this. With an injured player like McGahee, there isn't the usual necessity/emphasis on both parts to have the player signed by camp - McGahee can't participate anyway (regardless of what Drew says).

I wouldn't be suprised (nor concerned) if McGahee doesn't sign until after camp. At this time, Donahoe will have more time on his hands to devote to the negotiations and I think things will get done.

[TypicalBill]

We have to sign him before a specific date in November .. if we dont, he can enter the 2004 draft and we wont be allowed to draft him.

[Pride]

I am just afraid that if it takes too long, we may find ourselves in trouble. If Henry has fumbilitus (sp?) early on in the season, McGahee will have more bargining power.

[HenryRules]

I believe the date in November is only so that he is eligible to play this season. We can still sign him after that, but won't be able to play him.

I don't think it will go that long at all ... I think he'll sign (at the latest) 2 or 3 weeks after the season starts.

[TypicalBill]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I believe the date in November is only so that he is eligible to play this season. We can still sign him after that, but won't be able to play him.

Not really, from what ive read... if we dont sign him by that date in November, he can enter the draft period..its not about playing him this year or not.

ill have to find a link to that article though

[The Spaz]

No he has to sign in November or else he can go back in the draft next year. If you remember the Chargers almost lost Quentin Jammer last year because of this.

[TedMock]

He'll be signed before year end and I'm not that concerned. The longer he goes unsigned the longer he re-habs and stays away from pounding on it. That's fine with me.

[HenryRules]

I don't know how accurate this calendar is ... but it only states that the rookie will not be eligible to play for the season ... no comment about losing the rights.

http://www.footballinjuries.com/calendar.htm (November 11)

[TypicalBill]

Yup, i guess we're both right..

Teams normally have until mid-November to sign draft picks or those players become ineligible to play for the remainder of the season.

An unsigned player can re-apply for next April’s draft.

A healthy McGahee, a Heisman finalist as a sophomore, could certainly boost his draft standing.


D&C article (http://www.rochesterdandc.com/sports/bills/0801V11CGUK_willis01_bills.shtml)

[Bulldog]

I really don't think that TD will let a first round pick go unsigned allowing him to re-enter the draft. Espically after he worked so hard to get that pick from Atlanta for Price. As much as TD values draft picks, I would be really suprised if this happens.

[WG]

Thanks! BTW, I'm not overly concerned. I figure we'll sign him. But, you never know, if Henry plays well up front, McGahee and DR may start eyeing reality and seeing the dubious "starting RB situation" that's bound to exist next season and he may take his chances on getting drafted quite a bit higher next year therefore commanding bigger bucks. I don't think any of us would argue that if he "reenters" the draft next season, that he'd easiliy be i the top 10, and quite possibly among the top 5 as many predicted for this year had he not gotten injured. Teams like Cincy, Houston, N.E., Detroit, T.B., Jax, Skins, etal. may jump at the opp to get him.

So, while I wasn't thinking about all this when I asked the question as it was more a question of what McG's options were, I still see that perhaps it would in fact pay McGahee to wait, not sign unless he gets "top 5" bucks, and then reenter so that he does. If you think about it, I'm not really sure who has the leverage here. I'm leaning towards McGahee and if I were him, I'd think good and long about signing here if I could triple my contract and get twice or three times the bonus by waiting.


Originally posted by Pride
Of course, McGahee needs to consider... who wants a RB who:

1. Hasn't played in 2 years
2. Never played a down in the NFL
3. Has an agent like Drew R.

And one who's been significantly hurt in each of the last three season's he's played in!!!

[WG]

Originally posted by Bulldog
I really don't think that TD will let a first round pick go unsigned allowing him to re-enter the draft. Espically after he worked so hard to get that pick from Atlanta for Price. As much as TD values draft picks, I would be really suprised if this happens.

How much are you/we willing to pay Bulldog?

I'm not sure McGahee's worth "top 5" money right now, but I guarantee you that that's what DR and he are thinking. Way too risky IMO.

Again, if your choices are:


Originally posted by clumping platelets
I wouldn't give that much up front.

His cap number for 2003 cannot exceed $1.018 million because that's all that's remaining in the rookie pool allocation.

I foresee only a 6 yr deal. Voidable to 5 yrs... Why? McGahee is only 21 y/o and will want the chance at UFA sooner.

I would give him $4 million signing bonus in total split over 2 seasons. $2 million in 2003 and $2 million option payment in 2004. Because he's likely NOT to play in 2003, he will be placed on PUP and then IR come week 10. His salary for 2003 is basically guaranteed. Throw in a "In Buffalo workout bonus(es)" and you have my "final proposal"

salaries: $550,000(2003), $550,000(2004), $600,000(2005), $675,000(2006), $800,000(2007), and $1 million(2008-voidable)

"In Buffalo" workout bonus in 2003 $125,000
2004-2008: $50,000

6 yrs-$8.55 million or 5 yrs-$7.5 million

2003 cap number: $1.008 million

OR

Waiting until next year and possibly getting drafted among the top 10 or 15 picks.

Which would you choose coupled w/ the notion that playing time in Buffalo in all probability is going to be a significant issue?

[HenryRules]

I doubt they're asking for top-5 money. They know our rookie cap situation and know that we can't offer that sort of money.

Length of the contract is probably the sticking point. Although, I don't even know if there actually is a sticking point - there is simply no motivation on either side to get the deal done right now as no one is missing out on anything until the season starts (when McGahee will miss out on paychecks).

I really don't think he'd be a top-5 or top-10 pick next year. Frank Gore would have beat him out for the starting RB job at Miami this year and Gore will be a top-5 pick. With the baggage McGahee would be bringing in, I doubt anyone would take him higher than this year (when you think about it, what would really have changed for the better for McGahee? Teams will still be questioning whether or not he is healthy/will ever play again, yet this time there will actually be other RB's worth drafting). If McGahee can demonstrate on the football field that he's healthy, teams may be willing to trade a top-5 or top-10 pick for him, but if they haven't seen him play (which they won't if he doesn't have a contract) why would they act differently than this year?

[mypoorfriendme]

first off, he entered the draft in the first place before anyone had any idea about how fast hewas going to rehab. most mock drafts had him going in round3 that i saw. and his agent promised who ever did take him, wouldnt have a problem signing him. so in conclusion, i really do not see him never signing with the bills because he were really that greedy, he would have had the confidence to be taken high next draft and get all the money he wants. i believe we will sign him once, drew the agent realizes that from any angle, mcgahee was taken at pick number 23, not 2 or 3.

[TypicalBill]

the dispute from what ive read is that they both agree that McGahee should be paid the signing bonus according to the position he was drafted in (23rd) which is around 4 mil but TD doesn't wanna give him the full SB this year.. he wants to make it part performance and part upfront incase he doesn't return 100% but DR wants the full upfront SB..... thats what ive been reading.

[DraftBoy]

He'll sign near the end of camp and I do think the sticking point is # of years and upfront money. I would love to get him in here at 6 years and an incentive loaded backend deal but Drew aint gonna let that happen. He'll want lots upfront and a 3-4 year deal

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by mypoorfriendme
and his agent promised who ever did take him, wouldnt have a problem signing him. so in conclusion,

Consider the source. Who in their right mind will lie and say their client is ready to go at camp and risk blowing the knee again and permanently ending his clients career? A lying ***** who's out to fill his own pocket.

[WG]

I'm hearin' two different things here over the last several months HR.

I'm hearin' on one hand how great McGahee is and then on the other what you just said.

For me, I wouldn't have made that pick w/ the first selection, nor am I convinced that McGahee's consistent history w/ serious injuries is not the rule vice the exception.

As to his being a top 5 or 10 pick next year, I wouldn't be so sure. If he does some things to prove to interested teams that he's 100%, I'd wager you in a heartbeat that he'd be gone by #10. Gotta remember, it won't be teams like T.B., Philly, us, Fins, K.C., etc. drafting that high. It'll be teams like those I mentioned, the Pats perhaps, who will be looking for a RB. Likely any contract would contain incentives to protect the team that drafts him, but I'd wager you he'd get two or three times the bonus and contract if he were drafted that high.

In any case, I'm a little confused as to what the "official opinion" of him is. If there are all these caveats as you suggest, then grabbing him that early was stupid. Frankly, I think it was, but that notwithstanding.

mypoor,

You're missing the point entirely. It's not a question of where he was drafted this year or where he would have been drafted this year, it's a question of what he'd get at #23 this year vice what he could get if he were drafted say amongst the top 10 picks, or 12, or whatever, next year!

If he can command 2 1/2 times the bonus simply by waiting, even if on an incentive/contingency basis, which he'll likely have to accept no matter where he signs, then it simply doesn't make sense for him to sign here now, this year.

No matter how you slice it, he isn't going to make less by waiting and redrafting IMO. It could only help him, especially in light of the notion that he may not even play here next year. That could very well be in the back of his mind too. I'm sure he's eager to get out on the field and prove to everyone that he's fine. Well, is he guaranteed to get that chance here? I don't think so. He/DR, may be waiting to see how Henry plays over the first 4 or 5 games. If Henry plays well, he may very well say "screw it! I'll wait until next year b/c I want more money and, more importantly, I want to be assured of being given every opportunity to play!"

[WG]

Originally posted by Winfield_26
He'll sign near the end of camp and I do think the sticking point is # of years and upfront money. I would love to get him in here at 6 years and an incentive loaded backend deal but Drew aint gonna let that happen. He'll want lots upfront and a 3-4 year deal

Is he worth "lots up front?"

[DraftBoy]

I dont think so based on the injury, You gotta do a back end loaded deal and make him earn his money. It will probably have a nice signing bonus poor salaries years 1-3, and then begin a rise in years 4 and 5. That way he gets his up front cash so to speak and he has 3 years to prove hes worth the big money in 4th and 5th years

[Jan Reimers]

Originally posted by Winfield_26
I dont think so based on the injury, You gotta do a back end loaded deal and make him earn his money. It will probably have a nice signing bonus poor salaries years 1-3, and then begin a rise in years 4 and 5. That way he gets his up front cash so to speak and he has 3 years to prove hes worth the big money in 4th and 5th years

I can't say it enough. We drafted him 23rd overall, fully cognizant of his injury and his agent. How can TD expect to sign him for less than 23rd overall signing bonus, salary structure and contract duration? Does he expect Willis and Rosenhaus to take less, out of gratitude?

If we are offering him anything less than is befitting a 23rd pick - and we lose him - I'll be livid.

[DraftBoy]

I dont think he deserves 23rd money, he would only deserve it if he could play right away now late 1st liek 30th or top 5 in the 2nd round money Id do that in a heartbeat, but knowing Drew hes probably asking for alot more than 23rd, and want like a 3 year deal of course im just guessing but it would not surprise me one bit.

[HenryRules]

Wys, I still don't understand why you think he'd be drafted higher next year than he was this year?

The reason he dropped is because no team knew that his knee would hold up long-term. How will that issue have been addressed at all if he doesn't sign and play for the Bills?

[HenryRules]

He definitely deserves #23 money ... but the question is when? There is no set contract structure for where a player is drafted ... some get longer contracts with voidable years, some don't. That is where the negotiation lies.

Also, to say that his injury shouldn't be considered when negotiating is foolish IMO. Factors other than draft slot (for example QB's often get a lot more at #1 than other positions) are taken into consideration with draft picks, so why not a player's health?

[Jan Reimers]

If we are unwilling to pay him 23rd money, we shouldn't have drafted him 23rd.