View Full Version : Wys, heres my bet..
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 09:54 AM
i bet you 5000zbs that DB doesn't throw more than 15 int's in the 16 games (regular season) ... are we on?
I'll make it if it's "more than 14", so on his 15th you lose?
5,000 ZBs it is if you want it.
P.S., must start all 16 games for you to win.
We can come up w/ a prorated # for 12-15 games if you want. If he doesn't start more than 10 or 11, wager will be void unless I've already won.
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:00 AM
lol, give me a break .. you were laughing, so i thought you'd take even 17ints ... i think 15 is fair for me... what do you say? 15 i win.... :D
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:02 AM
besides, Drew sucks right? he cant possibly throw less than 15ints...
15 a push then!
:madcurse:
I'll give ya odds, say 3-1 on 12?
I'll give ya 5-1 on 10?
Both being a push.
What do ya say there funnyman? Mr. Comedian!
:D
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:06 AM
lol, sorry ... i love Drew but he's not the top in the league 5-1 at 10??? that just like saying " 5 - 1 Armstrong will win the race " ... C'mon.. Drew sucks, put your money where your mouth is ... simple, he throws 15 or less, i win 5000 ... he throws 16 or more, you win 5000... if he gets injured (knocking every single part of my body against my wooden table) .. the deal is void and is over..
what do you say Mr "Drew Bledsoe sucks but im not betting on it"
:D
justasportsfan
08-07-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
15 a push then!
Ya'll have been had. Wys starts threads just to earn more zb's. He really thinks Drew is the next coming of Jim Kelly. :laughter:
Honestly, if KG really does limit Drew's attempts to say around 450, I can see Drew only tossing 13 or 14 INTs.
So again, I'll give odds on below 14, if you want 15, then we'll have to compromise and make 15 a push. You don't lose anything on that, just if it is 15, then you don't win. I don't either. So the risk for the wager isn't any higher for you.
And BTW, I win as soon as Drew does hit the 16th, regardless of whether he plays anymore or not.
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
And BTW, I win as soon as Drew does hit the 16th, regardless of whether he plays anymore or not.
obviously lol .. what, he's gonna take them off afterwards? offcorse you win he reaches 16.
the thing we're not agreeing about is the 15...i want that 15 :club:
:D
lordofgun
08-07-2003, 10:15 AM
:popcorn:
Well, you ain't gettin' it!
He had 15 last year, and by any standard of logic, if his attempts go down, there's no reason why he should even match that.
I should actually ask for 14 as a push on this since presumably he's gonna get 20% fewer attempts. A straight-line reduction would translate to only 12 INTs this season.
:lolcry:
12 INTs....
Drew....
:lolcry:
Oh, pardon me!
He did get less than 12 once. It was in '01 when he only played 2 games!
:lolcry:
Ebenezer
08-07-2003, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
P.S., must start all 16 games for you to win.
what if the Bills win the division and DB sits the last game like Kelly used to...that's not fair to TB.
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:22 AM
changed your mind already?
Heck, what kind of odds to you want on 12, 15?
ROFLMAO
:chuckle: i can see you changing your mind about Drew too if thats how quick you change your mind.
:D
:huh:
It's not fair to me! Especially if he's racked up only 13 or 14 INTs by then. Especially since we're playin' the Pats!
I'd say that if Drew's healthy, the chances of him not playin' are extremely slim. Either we'll be PO bound, or not. If so, then playin' the Pats is just what he'll need headin' into the POs. Also, if we've won the division by then and have a first round bye, a 3 week layoff would be too much.
If we don't make the POs, then he'll likely be playin' anyway just to play well v. the Pats. Especially if he doesn't play well in the first game.
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:28 AM
changed your mind already?
Heck, what kind of odds to you want on 12, 15?
ROFLMAO
:chuckle: i can see you changing your mind about Drew too if thats how quick you change your mind.
:D
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:28 AM
do we have a deal or not? :D
Throne Logic
08-07-2003, 10:37 AM
Make it a per game average. If he averages 1 INT per game (16 INTs/16 games), Wys wins. If it's .94 (15 INTs/16 games), it's a push. Anything less, then TB wins.
I'll do that for .90!
.94 is an edge to TB since if Drew tosses 15 in 16 games, or .9375, then as it drops by 1/game, i.e., 14 in 15, 13 in 14, etc. the %age gets smaller. So the fewer the games, the better for TB on that avg.
However, 14 in 16 is .875.
So I'll break it at .900 as an O/U.
Either that, or 15's a push!
Also TB, gotta remember that Drew put all 15 up last year in only 7 games. So if he improves as you say, then he shouldn't have any difficulty controlling those. Not to mention, that if we really do become a running team, the pressure should be much less on him allowing him plenty of time not to make those bad throws.
I think I'm bein' more than generous here.
So again, 15 a push on the season or .90 w/ a say and 8 game minimum.
TB?
Come on TB! Isn't this the best team Drew's ever played on offensively speaking?
Heck, maybe defensively speaking too?
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'll do that for .90!
.94 is an edge to TB since if Drew tosses 15 in 16 games, or .9375, then as it drops by 1/game, i.e., 14 in 15, 13 in 14, etc. the %age gets smaller. So the fewer the games, the better for TB on that avg.
However, 14 in 16 is .875.
So I'll break it at .900!
Either that, or 15's a push!
Also TB, gotta remember that Drew put all 15 up last year in only 7 games. So if he improves as you say, then he shouldn't have any difficulty controlling those. Not to mention, that if we really do become a running team, the pressure should be much less on him allowing him plenty of time not to make those bad throws.
I think I'm bein' more than generous here.
So again, 15 a push on the season or .90 w/ a say and 8 game minimum.
TB?
:dizzy: i dont get any of that...
i want my 15 to win 16 to lose.. DREW SUCKS!!! remember? :huh:
No deal. He pitched 15 last year and he's supposedly gonna have 20% fewer attempts.
What's the matter, don't think he'll beat his 15 from last year?
I'll tell ya that if he doesn't under the circumstances, he's gonna have a growing list of displeased supporters!
No deal then!
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Come on TB! Isn't this the best team Drew's ever played on offensively speaking?
Heck, maybe defensively speaking too?
Yeah, but he'll screw it up wont he? he wont take us to where we want and to do that, he's gonna have to throw a LOT of interceptions....
:D
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:55 AM
correct me if im wrong, but arent those your exact words?
LMAO...
What kind of odds do you want on that one!!
Heck, what kind of odds to you want on 12, 15?
ROFLMAO
thats why i want my 15, you said it in the other thread :D
BTW, on the .900, here's the explanation:
15/16 is .9375 or ~ .94
But, 14/15 is .933
13/14 is .928
...
10/11 is ..909
5/6 is ..833
See the trend. If we ran w/ .90 as a "per game" standard w/o any contingency for games fewer than 16, then if we expect Drew to toss 1 INT fewer than the # of games played, then that percentage drops dramitically.
This is especially advantageous to you b/c the last game of the season is the one that he's most likely to miss and it's v. the Pats who recorded 5 of Drew's 15 INTs last season.
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
BTW, on the .900, here's the explanation:
15/16 is .9375 or ~ .94
But, 14/15 is .933
13/14 is .928
...
10/11 is ..909
5/6 is ..833
See the trend. If we ran w/ .90 as a "per game" standard w/o any contingency for games fewer than 16, then if we expect Drew to toss 1 INT fewer than the # of games played, then that percentage drops dramitically.
This is especially advantageous to you b/c the last game of the season is the one that he's most likely to miss and it's v. the Pats who recorded 5 of Drew's 15 INTs last season.
:ontome:
Originally posted by TypicalBill
correct me if im wrong, but arent those your exact words?
thats why i want my 15, you said it in the other thread :D
The other thread mentioned 10 INTs!
What kind of odds do you want for 10 INTs?
I'll go real money for 5-1!!!
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 11:02 AM
didn't you read the 2nd quote? :D
Originally posted by TypicalBill
Yeah, but he'll screw it up wont he? he wont take us to where we want and to do that, he's gonna have to throw a LOT of interceptions....
:D
Yes! Yes he will!
My predictions:
Drew will be the "weak link" of the O this season.
He will be the predominant factor in most of our losses this season.
If we make it to the playoffs, he won't have a good game in them, perhaps average, and if we don't win the AFC Championship, it'll be due to his poor play as a QB in the game that ousts us that will be the reason. I expect all other aspects of the team to perform adequately or much better.
In fact, I'll "preassign" team grades right now:
Before snap one of the preseason, my prediction for season grades are as follows:
OL: A
WR: A
RB: A
QB: C
TE: B
DL: B
LB: A
DB: A+
STs: B
My only caveat is if the 5 starters on the OL get hurt, any of them. I would expect OL to drop to a B or B-, perhaps even a C. That would impact the others too. And clearly other injuries matter as well.
That doesn't leave a lot of grey area, does it! :)
BTW, nothing new here. But as long as you're asking...
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Yes! Yes he will!
My predictions:
Drew will be the "weak link" of the O this season.
He will be the predominant factor in most of our losses this season.
If we make it to the playoffs, he won't have a good game in them, perhaps average, and if we don't win the AFC Championship, it'll be due to his poor play as a QB in the game that ousts us that will be the reason. I expect all other aspects of the team to perform adequately or much better.
In fact, I'll "preassign" team grades right now:
Before snap one of the preseason, my prediction for season grades are as follows:
OL: A
WR: A
RB: A
QB: C
TE: B
DL: B
LB: A
DB: A+
STs: B
My only caveat is if the 5 starters on the OL get hurt, any of them. I would expect OL to drop to a B or B-, perhaps even a C. That would impact the others too. And clearly other injuries matter as well.
That doesn't leave a lot of grey area, does it! :)
BTW, nothing new here. But as long as you're asking...
does that mean we're on? :clap:
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 11:09 AM
was that your kind of "yes" ?
BillsOwnAll
08-07-2003, 11:13 AM
can i put money on that 5-1 10 int bet?
Ebenezer
08-07-2003, 11:16 AM
:movie:
Originally posted by TypicalBill
was that your kind of "yes" ?
No!!!!!
Your options are:
15 being a push
OR
.90 INT % on a "per game" basis regardless of # of games played given some minimum agreed upon # of games. 4, 6, 8, doesn't matter. 4 minimum tho.
Since you won't take that, and since I'm gonna stop checking this thread, PM me if interested...!
Originally posted by BillsOwnAll
can i put money on that 5-1 10 int bet?
Sure can!
The deal is as stated in the original post of whomever posted it. Drew needs to toss "less than 10" INTs and you win!
YUP!!!
Shoot me a PM!!! We'll hammer out the details...
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
No!!!!!
Your options are:
15 being a push
OR
.90 INT % on a "per game" basis regardless of # of games played given some minimum agreed upon # of games. 4, 6, 8, doesn't matter. 4 minimum tho.
Since you won't take that, and since I'm gonna stop checking this thread, PM me if interested...!
:gag: guess its not gonna work out.. i really thought you didn't like Drew's QB skills that much but i was wrong... who woulda known that he's above average in your book :bravo:
Its great to know that :up:
i bet i made a lot of people happy
JK :D
Oh, he's well above average...
...versus teams that suck!
The problem is that he's well below average against teams that are good.
Last year:
Good teams (teams .500 or better at year's end):
13 TDs/15 INTs, 58.6%, 6.54 YPA, 258 YPG (well below avg.)
Bad teams (teams less than .500 at year's end):
11 TDs/0 INTs, 68.1%, 8.53 YPA, 316 YPG (well above avg.)
HenryRules
08-07-2003, 11:52 AM
For playing against teams above .500, his #'s look pretty good to me.
I can't believe that the league average would be better than that against teams above .500.
Throne Logic
08-07-2003, 11:59 AM
oh s#!t
here we go . . .
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Oh, he's well above average...
...versus teams that suck!
The problem is that he's well below average against teams that are good.
Last year:
Good teams (teams .500 or better at year's end):
13 TDs/15 INTs, 58.6%, 6.54 YPA, 258 YPG (well below avg.)
Bad teams (teams less than .500 at year's end):
11 TDs/0 INTs, 68.1%, 8.53 YPA, 316 YPG (well above avg.)
:gag:
TypicalBill
08-07-2003, 12:01 PM
back those numbers up by a bet.... a bad starter wouldn't throw 15 or less int's in 16 games... lets go! :D
Throne Logic
08-07-2003, 12:08 PM
What if you guys based it upon attempts made.
Last year was 610 attempts / 15 INTs = 1 pick every 40.67 attempts.
I'm sure Wys could expand upon this.
Novacane
08-07-2003, 12:17 PM
I'd grab the 14 TB. Before Wys sees the preseason games and becomes a drew lover again.
Originally posted by HenryRules
For playing against teams above .500, his #'s look pretty good to me.
I can't believe that the league average would be better than that against teams above .500.
Really! With all the talent he had?
Oh well,...perhaps thus the difference in our opinions.
For reference purposes:
K. Collins, w/ half the talent offensively, had 8/5.
Favre, also w/ a fraction of the talent, had 12/9
Brooks was 14/9
I see a big difference there, particularly since Drew did less w/ more!
You can do your own work and go look at the rest.
Heck, even Plummer managed 10/9!
justasportsfan
08-07-2003, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Really! With all the talent he had?
Oh well,...perhaps thus the difference in our opinions.
For reference purposes:
K. Collins, w/ half the talent offensively, had 8/5.
Favre, also w/ a fraction of the talent, had 12/9
Brooks was 14/9
I see a big difference there, particularly since Drew did less w/ more!
You can do your own work and go look at the rest.
How many years have these qb's played w/ their team under the same coach ,system and players?
Farve? Collins? Brooks? Drew?
Besides, that didn't seem to affect him when he played his best!!!
So what are ya saying? Was it "beginner's luck" up front then?
Your argument would be a little more credible if as I said, his play was inverted w/ the better play coming late in the season. In fact, the opposite happened. It got exponentially worse practically.
justasportsfan
08-07-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
WAH!
:cry:
:rolleyes: No comeback huh?
Familiarity with a system and players are important factors to consider especially since you are comparing Drew to qb's of such caliber who's teams are playoff contenders even the year before. Do you disagree with this?
justasportsfan
08-07-2003, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Besides, that didn't seem to affect him when he played his best!!!
So what are ya saying? Was it "beginner's luck" up front then?
Your argument would be a little more credible if as I said, his play was inverted w/ the better play coming late in the season. In fact, the opposite happened. It got exponentially worse practically.
That's due to teams figuring out our being a pass happy team. You yourself stated that the Gilbride system sucked. You also agree that we should change our mentallity to running first and throwing second. Drew has his faults but do no throw away factors that make Farve, Collins and Brooks look better than Drew. That's picking factors just to win your argument.
Sorry no can do.
Originally posted by justasportsfan
:rolleyes: No comeback huh?
No, I have a two year old at home, I have my hands full w/ that level of exchange enough already. :D
As to the rest, when the truth be known, it's always just another excuse!
I can tell ya this, why don't you list them all now, so that when we debate this during the season you don't "spring" any new ones on us.
This applies to everyone who's gonna back Drew regardless of how he plays!
lordofgun
08-07-2003, 04:00 PM
There's a reason Wys has a chicken on the label of his wing sauce. ;)
R. Rich
08-07-2003, 04:01 PM
I know I'll probably get flamed by everyone here, but I really think that Drew bashing is overrated. Drew bashing really sucks and probably contributed to quite a few lost threads. I mean really, look at the stats; when has Drew bashing ever been anything better than average? I'm sure there's a second or third rated thread out there that can do just as well as Drew bashing.
justasportsfan
08-07-2003, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
No, I have a two year old at home, I have my hands full w/ that level of exchange enough already. :D
It's a legit question that you obviously seem to ignore because you know I'm right :bigwave:
Right about what? All the excuses?
OK then, how 'bout Pennington!
Answer that one tough guy and we'll talk!
Pennington: 16/4
Blake: 8/10
Brees: 11/11
Vick: 6/3
B.Johnson: 11/4
Maddux: 14/8
So what you're saying is that Bledsoe isn't as good as ALL those QBs then, right?
I agree! We're finally on the same sheet.
Pennington a 2nd year first time starter.
Blake, rumored to not be nearly as good as Drew.
Brees, a 2nd year first time starter.
Vick a rookie!
Maddux a first time starter!
ALLLL together, all 6 of those first time starters last year don't have twice the starting seasons as Drew does!
So far about half the starting QBs in the league that I listed played better against teams .500 or better!
I haven't even looked at the rest. What about Manning, McNair, Gannon, Culpepper, Green, Bulger, Garcia, McNabb, etc.
Guess that puts Drew WAYYYYY down the list, eh!
Michael82
08-07-2003, 04:51 PM
Wys...I could use some more Zonebucks next year. I will bet you 5,000 ZBs that Drew Bledsoe will throw less than 15 Interceptions this year. That is anywhere from 14, 13, 12....0. :D
What do you say? :snicker:
So if he tosses 15 I win, otherwise you win?
Is so, shoot me an e-mail or PM confirming...
U sure you wanna do that? 5K ZBs is a LOT of ZBs. I thought you said you needed them, not wanted to give them to me! ;)
BTW, I'll hold those 5K ZBs as collateral! Last time we wagered, it took me like 6 months and repeated threats to collect. If you win, :lolcry:, then I'll send you 10K ZBs.
Michael82
08-07-2003, 04:57 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
So if he tosses 15 I win, otherwise you win?
Is so, shoot me an e-mail or PM confirming...
U sure you wanna do that? 5K ZBs is a LOT of ZBs. I thought you said you needed them, not wanted to give them to me! ;)
Yeah I want to do it! It's an EASY bet for me! With the better D and Travis Henry pounding thru...Drew will throw a lot less. :D
Originally posted by Wys Guy
BTW, I'll hold those 5K ZBs as collateral! Last time we wagered, it took me like 6 months and repeated threats to collect. If you win, :lolcry:, then I'll send you 10K ZBs.
I don't think so! If you have problems getting the ZBs from me. Ask log and he can "steal" them from me. :lol:
:D
Fine. Shoot me a PM.
Rather, I'll shoot you one...
BTW, check your inbox...
colin
08-07-2003, 07:42 PM
1 pick every 40.67 attempts.
that is a good ratio.
wys is the worst analyst ever.
justasportsfan
08-08-2003, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Right about what? All the excuses?
OK then, how 'bout Pennington!
Answer that one tough guy and we'll talk!
Pennington: 16/4
Blake: 8/10
Brees: 11/11
Vick: 6/3
B.Johnson: 11/4
Maddux: 14/8
So what you're saying is that Bledsoe isn't as good as ALL those QBs then, right?
I agree! We're finally on the same sheet.
Pennington a 2nd year first time starter.
Blake, rumored to not be nearly as good as Drew.
Brees, a 2nd year first time starter.
Vick a rookie!
Maddux a first time starter!
ALLLL together, all 6 of those first time starters last year don't have twice the starting seasons as Drew does!
Haha! You are giving the wins to the qb's? You never did that w/ Flutie 21-9. Not trying to be funny about it. You are trying to spin things. Kinda contradicting form what you used to say about qb's winning games.
Let's see ,didn't Bucs beat the Packers w/ Rob at qb? Feely beat good teams too? Yeah and they are so much better than Drew. The qb's "alone" beat good teams. Drew lost against good teams by himself. :rolleyes:
You crack me up!
So let's see if I now finally have this right finally!
Originally posted by justasportsfan
Haha! You are giving the wins to the qb's? You never did that w/ Flutie 21-9. Not trying to be funny about it. You are trying to spin things. Kinda contradicting form what you used to say about qb's winning games.
Let's see ,didn't Bucs beat the Packers w/ Rob at qb? Feely beat good teams too? Yeah and they are so much better than Drew. The qb's "alone" beat good teams. Drew lost against good teams by himself. :rolleyes:
However, ...
"the only reason we won 8 games last year vice only 3 the year prior was b/c of Drew!"
and...
"We only won those extra games due to the play of Drew, w/o whom we wouldn't have won them?"
Or would we have?
I'm a little confused...
I'm curious what the Ostrich Club members have burried in the holes underground. Seems like drugs of some sort. You stick your head down there, and when you come up, you continually waffle on your arguments to suit the "argument/angle du jour!"
I kind of view it this way:
It's like coming out onto the field, and playing against the opponent. But when it's your ball, all of a sudden the rules change against your favor. Then, when the opponent gets the ball back, all of suddent the rules revert back to normal rules more favorable to the offense.
:rolleyes:
I say this, you say that.
I say fine, I'll engage you w/ that as the basis, then you go back to this and negate and nullify that!
:rolleyes:
It's so lame, the reasoning, that I can only assume that it's all intentional to exactly that.
justasportsfan
08-08-2003, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
You crack me up!
So let's see if I now finally have this right finally!
However, ...
"the only reason we won 8 games last year vice only 3 the year prior was b/c of Drew!"
and...
"We only won those extra games due to the play of Drew, w/o whom we wouldn't have won them?"
Or would we have?
I'm a little confused...
I'm curious what the Ostrich Club members have burried in the holes underground. Seems like drugs of some sort. You stick your head down there, and when you come up, you continually waffle on your arguments to suit the "argument/angle du jour!"
I kind of view it this way:
It's like coming out onto the field, and playing against the opponent. But when it's your ball, all of a sudden the rules change against your favor. Then, when the opponent gets the ball back, all of suddent the rules revert back to normal rules more favorable to the offense.
:rolleyes:
I say this, you say that.
I say fine, I'll engage you w/ that as the basis, then you go back to this and negate and nullify that!
:rolleyes:
It's so lame, the reasoning, that I can only assume that it's all intentional to exactly that.
We didn't win those games just because of him and I won't say we lost them only because of him either.
To compare individual stats it fine but when you compare wins/loss against good teams you ignore the fact that it is a team sport. Not fair to the qb especially since you can and should factor special teams and D into the picture whith those stats.
Like I said Rob started against the GB but they won w/o a TD. This doesn't mean he is better than Drew.
You stick your head down there, and when you come up, you continually waffle on your arguments to suit the "argument/angle du jour!"
It's like coming out onto the field, and playing against the opponent. But when it's your ball, all of a sudden the rules change against your favor. Then, when the opponent gets the ball back, all of suddent the rules revert back to normal rules more favorable to the offense.
You used to argue that the D was the reasoning for the teams success when Flutie was the QB (no pun intended). Fair enough. Why all of a sudden you don't factor in the D, special teams, OL when comparing the qb's mentioned above to Drew? Looks to me that you're the one spinning your argument to suit your argument. Talk about changing rules. :rolleyes:
You can't say I'm a Drew fan because I don't agree with your views as a matter of fact I am one who agreed w/ you he was one of the most overrated players "in the league" when he played for the Pats. I still think he is. I do not however share your views on how much he stinks because "HE" doesn't have a better record than the other qb's against good teams. He "lost those games by himself" ? Don't thnk so.
YAWWWWNNNN!!!!!
STREEETCHH!!!
:z:
TypicalBill
08-08-2003, 10:19 AM
:D
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