View Full Version : Sam Adams...???
These are just points that I made in another thread by Pride.
I watched Adams closely, and I'm gonna say it straight up!
If last nights game was the indication, Adams ain't much better than what we had last year and quite frankly, he's whatever comes just before washed up.
He played very upright and seemingly off balance. He got pushed around by guys much smaller than him. He was extremely slow to the gaps if he ever got there at all!!!
If there was one player that I was highly unimpressed with it was Adams and quite frankly, if that's all we're gonna get outta him, first of all, perhaps we should have drafted William Joseph, but second of all, other than name or lack of another DT, :rolleyes:, just like last year, he wouldn't even necessarily win the starting job. I thought Edwards played better w/ the second line by a LOOONG shot!
I'll assume that weight and/or conditioning were factors and see what he does in the next couple of preseason games, but he didn't look anything other than very average if even that. He looks like a slob who can't play football! He had no power whatsoever!
If watching himself on film doesn't motivate him to do whatever he has to do to be better at DT, then he's finished as a gimme starter in this league on any decent team.
But again, if yesterday night's game was any indicator, then I'd rather see Edwards in there!!!
Oh, BTW, Adams didn't have one tackle, one assist, NADA!!!
And it ain't "because they weren't running at him b/c they were so scared...!"
justasportsfan
08-10-2003, 10:25 AM
Notice how Pat was all over the place though? I'd give Adams the benefit of a doubt that he will get better.
TypicalBill
08-10-2003, 10:27 AM
he doesn't perform, he doesn't get "the" money.... incentive laden contract..
:hail: TD
cordog
08-10-2003, 10:29 AM
Yeah he freed Pat up, so you have to give him some credit, also, was he getting double teamed? I didnt see the game.
HenryRules
08-10-2003, 10:31 AM
I watched the game and I don't remember them once running at Adams. He's a DT, not an LB, so he's not expected to make tackles when they don't run at him. I wasn't disappointed at all in his play.
Tatonka
08-10-2003, 10:33 AM
wys is just going to take this opportunity to bash a guy he never liked and find a way to talk about...
1- thorton
2- william joseph
3- ej henderson
4- travis brown.
what a joke. :rolleyes:
big sam will be fine.. 4 carries for 6 yards against pat and sam.. wys can not phathom the fact that you do not measure a DT by the numbers.. which is all he is good at twisting.. :snicker:
Tatonka
08-10-2003, 10:34 AM
ps.. saw this post coming a mile away..
i am sure we will get a book on why TB is still the best qb for this team too, even though he was slinging ducks against the 2nd and 3rd.. and even 4th string defense last night.
justasportsfan
08-10-2003, 10:40 AM
Originally posted by Tatonka
wys is just going to take this opportunity to bash a guy he never liked and find a way to talk about...
1- thorton
2- william joseph
3- ej henderson
4- travis brown.
what a joke. :rolleyes:
big sam will be fine.. 4 carries for 6 yards against pat and sam.. wys can not phathom the fact that you do not measure a DT by the numbers.. which is all he is good at twisting.. :snicker:
Actually tat, wys was big on Sam Adams a year before prior to Admas signing w/ the raiders.
cordog
08-10-2003, 10:50 AM
Hes gotta cut someone up since his boy TB looked like dog $h!t
BillsOwnAll
08-10-2003, 10:55 AM
Wys are you sure your a bills fan?
Michael82
08-10-2003, 11:01 AM
You gotta see him on TV then, Wys! Because he was getting double teamed and held the OL to let Big Pat roam all over the place. We knew he is not the kind of DT to rush the passer or run after the RBs...hell, Marv commented about his hussle in the game and I was pretty impressed too. He manhandled one guy and then was holding off two guys when Pat got his sack. You just like to complain! :snicker: :D
Kelly The Dog
08-10-2003, 11:02 AM
Wys, you simply cannot make your normal statistical analysis concerning Adams at all. I know you are saying what you saw, but Adam TOTAL value is plugging and taking up blockers so Phat Pat and the linebackers behind him can make tackles. He only played one quarter of one pre-season game.
In the Super Bowl winning year on the Ravens he made 27 tackles the entire year. The next season he made 23. Last year he made 22. He can be an extremely valuable player if he makes zero tackles, we need him to take up space and not be bnlown off the ball and not allow interior linemen and fullbacks to have full speed unhindered blocks on Fletcher and Spikes and Posey. That's it. Anything else is gravy. The Ravens didnt light up the defense up the middle at all.
If you were pr Adams, you would be ALL over the small YPC and no long runs and shutting down Jamal, etc.
Originally posted by justasportsfan
Notice how Pat was all over the place though? I'd give Adams the benefit of a doubt that he will get better.
PW was all over the place. It was very noticeable on several plays when Adams got pushed back or didn't do much while Pat surged.
Originally posted by TypicalBill
he doesn't perform, he doesn't get "the" money.... incentive laden contract..
:hail: TD
Yeah, and we still may end up w/ DT issues.
I could give a crap about anyone's contract at this point! We need execution on the DL. Not savings due to a "good deal" contract, eh.
cordog
08-10-2003, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Mike32282
You gotta see him on TV then, Wys! Because he was getting double teamed and held the OL to let Big Pat roam all over the place. We knew he is not the kind of DT to rush the passer or run after the RBs...hell, Marv commented about his hussle in the game and I was pretty impressed too. He manhandled one guy and then was holding off two guys when Pat got his sack. You just like to complain! :snicker: :D
This is exactly why you have to take anything a fin fan and wys says with a grain of salt.
Michael82
08-10-2003, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by cordog
This is exactly why you have to take anything a fin fan and wys says with a grain of salt.
:snicker: :lol:
Originally posted by cordog
Yeah he freed Pat up, so you have to give him some credit, also, was he getting double teamed? I didnt see the game.
No, I didn't notice him get double teamed at all. Maybe up front on the first few plays. I didn't watch him every play, but many. From the plays that I saw, I didn't see one play from him that made me say, "Man, I'm glad we picked up Adams!" I saw him get royally dumped once, quasi twice, I saw him get pushed backwards on at least two plays by one man. And I saw an awful lot of him just taking his man and holding him but often being contained by that same man as he tried to get to one side or the other to make a tackle. I never saw him in the backfield. I also never saw him once surge and push his blocker backwards.
It was almost as if he had no strength. He also plays a lot higher than he used to. He looked off-balance and again, not possessing of much power at all.
TypicalBill
08-10-2003, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
Yeah, and we still may end up w/ DT issues.
I could give a crap about anyone's contract at this point! We need execution on the DL. Not savings due to a "good deal" contract, eh.
But the thing is, we didn't lol, even though you thought he looked awful, the middle of the D was very solid ... 2.5 yards per carry doesn't = DT issues :snicker2:
TypicalBill
08-10-2003, 11:15 AM
oh and BTW, .. :D
Originally posted by Tatonka
wys is just going to take this opportunity to bash a guy he never liked and find a way to talk about...
1- thorton
2- william joseph
3- ej henderson
4- travis brown.
what a joke. :rolleyes:
big sam will be fine.. 4 carries for 6 yards against pat and sam.. wys can not phathom the fact that you do not measure a DT by the numbers.. which is all he is good at twisting.. :snicker:
T,
W/ all due respect; WTH are you talking about?
I was expecting our DL to rage this year. I'm as disappointed over what I saw from Adams as I am w/ anything else that wasn't good. Joseph I wanted for the future and "in case" Adams played the way he did.
If you go back and read my piece when we signed Adams, you'll realize how foolish your statements on my views on Adams are. But I'm not gonna sit here and "pull a media Bledsoe" for Adams either. I will say this, if he plays during the season as he did yesterday, then you're not gonna see that much of an improvement in the play of our DL. Plain and simple.
As to Thornton, Adams play yesterday couldn't hold Thornton's jock for him as he was trying to get into it. Adams was a slob out there! Slow, upright, looked unbalanced. Not good.
As to my "never liking him", again, you're amiss. He's all I wanted last year and I was ecstatic to get him this year. I just wasn't happy w/ his level of play.
Come on folks!
If you're gonna bring it on, at least get it right!!!!
Don't mind the criticism, but for Pete Sakes, deal in truth here and not some sort of "anti-Wys fantasy realm!"
cordog
08-10-2003, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by TypicalBill
But the thing is, we didn't lol, even though you thought he looked awful, the middle of the D was very solid ... 2.5 yards per carry doesn't = DT issues :snicker2:
I guess if a guy doesnt make a tackle everytime, hes cant play. Wys is saying this about sam so he doesnt have to defend his boy TB who couldnt hit the broad side of a barn
Again T, and anyone else for that matter,
If you saw something different outta Adams, then simply point out the time, Q, etc. I'll relook as I didn't see 100% of his plays. I did watch him a good 60-70% tho. And BTW, if it isn't more than a play or two, don't bother.
Originally posted by Mike32282
You gotta see him on TV then, Wys! Because he was getting double teamed and held the OL to let Big Pat roam all over the place. We knew he is not the kind of DT to rush the passer or run after the RBs...hell, Marv commented about his hussle in the game and I was pretty impressed too. He manhandled one guy and then was holding off two guys when Pat got his sack. You just like to complain! :snicker: :D
What, first series?
I'll rewatch the game. But I didn't see a lot of double teams after the first series. There were several of us together, and we all saw the same thing as we sat there and specifically watched him.
Call it a difference of opinion. Again however, someone's gotta have a tape. Point out some moments where he was double teamed. I know there were a bunch when he wasn't and couldn't even beat one man.
BTW, are you sure you're not thinking of PW??
That would make sense. He was the usual animal that he is.
And again, here we go again w/ the intangibles, just as w/ Drew. All of a sudden Adam's biggest contributions aren't reflectded in the stats he's sooo good. That stuff only goes so far.
I ain't buyin'!
justasportsfan
08-10-2003, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
PW was all over the place. It was very noticeable on several plays when Adams got pushed back or didn't do much while Pat surged.
If we signed Adams based on nos. than we're screwed. I thought his job was to get blockers and free up Pat and lb'ers w/c is what happened. I remember replays on t.v. where he was double teamed. ;)
Michael82
08-10-2003, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by justasportsfan
If we signed Adams based on nos. than we're screwed. I thought his job was to get blockers and free up Pat and lb'ers w/c is what happened. I remember replays on t.v. where he was double teamed. ;)
Exactly, and Marv was even saying how he did a good job manhandling one guy and then you saw the PW sack....Sam Adams held the middle and was blocking TWO guys!!! Wys...you were watching in a stadium. I was watching on TV with replays and all...so you did not see the whole thing. The reason why Pat was all over the field was because Sam Adams held off the OLs to let Pat roam and stop the RB and rush the passer. Or did you not see that sack? :rolleyes:
As I said, I'm rewinding my tape now as I type this.
I agree. But if he only ties up a single blocker, w/ no other contributions, you've gotta question that.
I will say that we had great containment by the DEs on the running plays! Did anyone factor that] into the reasons for our success on run D?
Again, I was very surprised at Denney's play. Very. I was left scratching my head as to how a player could be like he was last year and then like he was yesterday. It was puzzling I tell ya.
I'm not suggesting that he's gonna keep it up, but he may. If he does, he has a very good shot to be the starter. He still doesn't have killer DE speed on the corners, but he seemed to play well overall. Better than average, but not so good that we shouldn't shop for a faster DE.
Tatonka
08-10-2003, 11:30 AM
i will tell you WTH i am talking about..
i am talking about how you like to harp on the same repetative subject.. like the one billion times since the draft that you have mentioned :
1. one obscure line you found in some draft report about kelsay - "doesnt perform well against superior competition"
2. how we could have drafted william joseph - who was not distinguished himself at ALL for the giants.
3. EJ henderson - who has not made any noise since being drafted either.
4. hmmmm.. i think you have brought up every stat that drew bledsoe has every had 09450684065460 times.... on this board... or maybe that is seperate threads you have started about him.. cant remember.
point is.. it seems like the grass is ALWAYS greener w/ you.. and i just dont get it..
ok.. sam didnt have any tackles.. but all those around him played well.. and we allowed 2.5 yards a carry.. WTH do you want???
cordog
08-10-2003, 11:32 AM
I think ill believe Marv over wys
clumping platelets
08-10-2003, 11:32 AM
:movie:
justasportsfan
08-10-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by clumping platelets
:movie:
Is that buttered? Can I have some of that? I've got my own pop.
Who said anything about Henderson T?
I was talking about Adams. I made a passing reference to Joseph. Yeah, could have been any DT that we had a chance to get for our future! Sorry for thinking past the preseason! BTW, I just reviewed the tape, and I didn't see much conflicting w/ my observations. I didn't see anything indicative that Adams was anything but average if that.
My wife didn't start taping until well into the first Q, so I'll have to try and get a copy of it. Perhaps they'll replay it here on Comcast. Yeah right. LOL
I also observed Denney's play. Check out Denney's play on the Raven's first series in the second Q! Solid. Not fantastic, but I never said it was. I said he played very well. Pay particular attention to that first play on that drive. He almost logged a sack from the opposite side!
Did Marv have anything to say about Denney???
I did notice that Adams came out of the lineup before any other starter if I'm not mistaken. Why?
Too tired? What?
BillsOwnAll
08-10-2003, 11:46 AM
its hard to tell whos good and whos not in preseason...well beside travis browns now HES BAD! so we shouldnt judge adams on preseason...i mean he plays 1 quarter...maybe he had a bad quarter who knows!
He was very clearly not in top shape. Either that or he's carrying too much weight still. He was enormous looking at him on the sideline right in front of us. For a man his size, he sure got pushed around awful lot. Williams didn't get pushed around! He was doing the pushing!
My expectations for a player who is heralded as highly as he is and as large as he is, is that he push his assignment straight back and at least "gain some ground." I just didn't see that consistently.
I agree, he may have had a bad Q, but a lot of people were saying how marvelously he played. I agree, may have been a bad Q, but he/we definitely need to look at "why" b/c it's going to be an issue if it doesn't improve.
I did think that Edwards played pretty well however. He at least made a couple of tackles.
justasportsfan
08-10-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
He was very clearly not in top shape. Either that or he's carrying too much weight still. He was enormous looking at him on the sideline right in front of us. For a man his size, he sure got pushed around awful lot. Williams didn't get pushed around! He was doing the pushing!
My expectations for a player who is heralded as highly as he is and as large as he is, is that he push his assignment straight back and at least "gain some ground." I just didn't see that consistently.
I agree, he may have had a bad Q, but a lot of people were saying how marvelously he played. I agree, may have been a bad Q, but he/we definitely need to look at "why" b/c it's going to be an issue if it doesn't improve.
I did think that Edwards played pretty well however. He at least made a couple of tackles.
Give Sam more time wys. A few more games and he'll gain more weight. :snicker:
mikemac2001
08-10-2003, 01:39 PM
Adams isnt there to make tackles he is there to allow our Dline to Do more things and have less doubles on players and allow our Lb's to be free. Dont expect him to rack up the tackles.....also first game Wys First preseason game.
LOL just..
Indeed mac!! I just think Sam's outta simply outta shape. I mean it's only been two weeks since camp started. Heck, it takes to weeks just to get organized.
mikemac2001
08-10-2003, 02:17 PM
but im not planning on seeing adams make all these tackles i see him more to Take blockers away from our lb's and Dline mates....i want to see penetration from him though and not to get thrown off the ball. games 3 and 4 should tell.
BillsOwnAll
08-10-2003, 02:21 PM
Wys you should try out for the team.....you say everyones so bad you could do it!
Originally posted by mikemac2001
but im not planning on seeing adams make all these tackles i see him more to Take blockers away from our lb's and Dline mates....i want to see penetration from him though and not to get thrown off the ball. games 3 and 4 should tell.
That's fine, but let's not assume that he's automatically doing that in spite of not registering any tackles. It's a bit of a reach to suggest that he's even doing that when a good half of our tackles on Between the Ts runs were made by DBs and most were made by non-DL players.
I.e., we can find DTs who will do both.
Originally posted by BillsOwnAll
Wys you should try out for the team.....you say everyones so bad you could do it!
Do I say "everyone's so bad?"
Is that what I said BOA?
B/c I don't remember saying that!
Besides, what position are you gonna play?
You've offered up some criticisms of your own there I've noticed!
;)
bernielivsey_1
08-10-2003, 02:41 PM
:pant: TD thought enough to sign him.
:mad: Pat Will. said he jumped for joy when we signed him.
:confused: Two SB's in 3 years.
:box: Two pro bowls
:cool: He's only 32 (over the hill?)
:mex: Every article I've read says this guy is a major pickup
Wys with all due respect I hope your fingers hurt as much as my eyes hurt. I could have read War and Peace in less time than it took to read this thread. Ever try a one word answer? Not that I'm complaining. Dont ever change. Carpol Tunnel HEXHEXHEX
But outside of this hate for anyone named DREW your have some valid points.
:pow: please dont kill me :badboy:
Schobel94
08-10-2003, 05:39 PM
He's not 32 hes 30, thats a big difference.
He's a slob!
That's another key difference.
MDFINFAN
08-10-2003, 05:51 PM
Are you guys serious or just given Wys a hard time. I watch Adams a lot, took plenty of notes. Adams got knocked on his can on a one on one block Period. He came straight up a coupld of plays and didn't need a double team. He left himself open for easy blocks by the Ravens OL..Why do you guys think the Ravens were able to get 4 yards straight up the gut. P. Williams didn't get moved around like that. Justa, Totanka, and couple of others, don't come back to the Fins board and call anyone a Homer. Wys points out the truth on this one and you guys gives him hell. I have nothing to gain by pointing out a players mistake on this board, hell I even point out dolphins mistake on this board, but as Wys, Rich and Jaded and a lot more saw, the Ravens ran the ball effective up the gut. Didn't any of you tape the game? Rewatch it, I bet you see Adams get knock down by one player on a straight up blocking assignment. Justa he shouldn't have to get better, he's been doing the same thing for a while..as you would tell a finfan, don't make excuses for him. This not smack, but simply the truth.
I will say this, when I sit w/ folks and point things out, they don't have any issues w/ what I'm seeing. My guess is that it's stuff that they normally aren't looking for.
Ask anyone I've watched games with.
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
Rewatch it, I bet you see Adams get knock down by one player on a straight up blocking assignment.
It's funny MD, b/c as soon as I ask for times/plays/Qs, no one ante's up any info.
Yeah, you and I were watching that play and we saw it on the big screen in replay as well. Yes, it was very clearly a single OL-man that knocked Adams totally backwards and on his duff! It was early in the game and that's when we both said "dang", what's up w/ Adams and began watching him on every single play. He was halfway to another after that at some point.
I never said we need to cut him, and I'm not foolish enough to think that's gonna happen. But it's not like we were playing Denver, Miami, K.C., or any other of a variety of Os that are actually good and have decent QBs to at least give them some dimensionality. If we had been playing a decent offensive team, I'm not quite sure that Adams playing that way would have been much better than what we had last year other than having a better LBing corps, and therefore front 7.
We'll see. I'll make sure to bring it up before next Saturday's game @ Tenn. If I get the game at home, I'll post them as I see them...
MDFINFAN
08-10-2003, 06:13 PM
I hear ya Wys, there are times I don't agree with your assessments, but this one you and I saw straight up..I know without a doubt you're telling the truth on this one. I have my notes and I'm sticking by them. LOL.
ublinkwescore
08-10-2003, 06:30 PM
Miami has a good O?
they've got a good running game, but no passing game - ok, maybe they're good, but very far from great.
ublinkwescore
08-10-2003, 06:36 PM
Isn't taking plays off part of Sam Adams' MO?
I'm pretty damn confident that he wasn't going at it in that game with 100% - tell you the truth, I seriously doubt he was even trying. Remember last year, when we didn't win a single preseason game (if I remember correctly) - I was worried as hell going into the season - especially since the Jets forced us to 3 and out on our first drive in week one - then we went up 10-0 on the Jets (we would have won that game if we put a couple more starters on STs) turns out we had one of the better Os in the league last year (at least during the first half of the season, and when we played the fish).
Point is - relax - if he looks like that in week one, I'll jump on your little mini-bandwagon and b!+c# about Sam Adams all day long with you on here.
MDFINFAN
08-10-2003, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by ublinkwescore
Miami has a good O?
they've got a good running game, but no passing game - ok, maybe they're good, but very far from great.
So far this year Miami haven't proven they have anything except depth that played pretty good. Hopefully we see the starting O show something the next couple of PS games. TC has seen the WR's start to make a little noise and some of them carried it to PS. Greise was a unspectacular 6 for 8. But it was all short routes. We will need much more than that, before anyone takes what they've done in TC and against the Titians seriouly.
MDFINFAN
08-10-2003, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by ublinkwescore
Isn't taking plays off part of Sam Adams' MO?
I'm pretty damn confident that he wasn't going at it in that game with 100% - tell you the truth, I seriously doubt he was even trying. Remember last year, when we didn't win a single preseason game (if I remember correctly) - I was worried as hell going into the season - especially since the Jets forced us to 3 and out on our first drive in week one - then we went up 10-0 on the Jets (we would have won that game if we put a couple more starters on STs) turns out we had one of the better Os in the league last year (at least during the first half of the season, and when we played the fish).
Point is - relax - if he looks like that in week one, I'll jump on your little mini-bandwagon and b!+c# about Sam Adams all day long with you on here.
But Ublink, that's makes it even more unexcusable, he knew he was only going to play a couple of series, there was no need to take plays off. As I've stated before, he's lazy to me, not as motivated as he used to be. He was a beast with the Ravens, after the SB ring, he seems like he's just collecting pay checks. I think TD recognized that and that's why he's on a pay as you play contract. The first half of the season I have no doubt he will play better, but as the 2nd half rolls round and training is cut back a little to get though the rest of the year and it's cold up in Buffalo, I think he lets his conditioning go and you really see him take plays off. Hopefully for you, the contract keeps his attention focused.
I can't read all 4 pages of this thread.
All I can say is, in the first preseason game, no regulars are going to go 100% and get hurt. I wouldn't be concerned.
Originally posted by ublinkwescore
Isn't taking plays off part of Sam Adams' MO?
I'm pretty damn confident that he wasn't going at it in that game with 100% - tell you the truth, I seriously doubt he was even trying. Remember last year, when we didn't win a single preseason game (if I remember correctly) - I was worried as hell going into the season - especially since the Jets forced us to 3 and out on our first drive in week one - then we went up 10-0 on the Jets (we would have won that game if we put a couple more starters on STs) turns out we had one of the better Os in the league last year (at least during the first half of the season, and when we played the fish).
Point is - relax - if he looks like that in week one, I'll jump on your little mini-bandwagon and b!+c# about Sam Adams all day long with you on here.
Yeah, you could be right that he wasn't trying. I don't blame proven vets for not giving 100% in PS games. Interesting however, I've been watching last year's Raider's game yesterday and today morning, one noticeable thing is that Adams was clearly not the same player towards the end of the game that he was early on. Fewer double teams at the end and he was slow and more sluggish seemingly.
Like I said, we'll see. But there's no question he didn't look good on Saturday, albeit probably for the reasons cited by you.
BTW, I'm watching the Raiders game from last year, and already, Adams is effectively being blocked by both Teague and Sullivan one-on-one early in the 2nd Q.
timfromjersey
08-11-2003, 08:59 AM
:squish:
Well, it is a sad day indeed when a Bills fan starts telling his tale of woe about a Bill's player and a lowlife dopefish fan joins him in defense of his opinion, all the while getting his knocks on the Bills in at the same time. These are sad times indeed!
Wys, it's early preseason. Adams is a huge man! He'll be fine! Fat men take time to get into playing shape. Stop providing propaganda points to those egomaniacal fishfaces.
Voltron
08-11-2003, 09:10 AM
Wys you are being a Negative Nancy. :D
No, I'm being a "realistic Ralph!" :D
Throne Logic
08-11-2003, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by Travis Hunter
All I can say is, in the first preseason game, no regulars are going to go 100% and get hurt. I wouldn't be concerned.
Ironically, not going 100% is often a good way to get hurt. :KO:
I'm just concerned about the status of our starting DL.
I remember last year making the comment that after seeing Adams play at Oakland numerous times, that I was glad we didn't pay him huge bucks to come here. I was BIG on bringing him here. I got several "Amens" on that as well from folks here in agreement.
In reviewing the Bills game, what I'm seeing is him almost entirely being only single teamed, usually by Teague or Sullivan, once by MW and RB, thru 3 Qs, and not really doing much. Not making ground, not losing it, not really being much of a factor in the pass rush. In fact, on third downs, they bring in another DT when it's a passing situation b/c Adams can't pass rush.
So we'll see! But I'm thinkin' Edwards may win the starting spot. He played well on Saturday and is deft at both aspects of DL play.
IMO we're all overrating Adams. I liked the signing, but as well, I don't even see that he's as good as he was last year if the game Saturday is any indication. If getting dumped on his arse wasn't inducement enough to play tough for at least several downs, then I have to question his heart.
We'll see though. But IMO, given Adams, if he isn't drawing double teams often, then why start him! If he is, great. But if all he's gonna do is draw one-on-one, not be effective as a pass-rusher, not have much lateral capability, then he's only an average, at best, DT. If that ends up being the case, then we need to start seeing things as they are, not as we would wish them to be, or as they were several years ago.
Time and the Tenn./STL games will tell...
Originally posted by Throne Logic
Ironically, not going 100% is often a good way to get hurt. :KO:
That's a very good overlooked point TL!!
R. Rich
08-11-2003, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by MDFINFAN
Are you guys serious or just given Wys a hard time. I watch Adams a lot, took plenty of notes. Adams got knocked on his can on a one on one block Period. He came straight up a coupld of plays and didn't need a double team. He left himself open for easy blocks by the Ravens OL..Why do you guys think the Ravens were able to get 4 yards straight up the gut. P. Williams didn't get moved around like that. Justa, Totanka, and couple of others, don't come back to the Fins board and call anyone a Homer. Wys points out the truth on this one and you guys gives him hell. I have nothing to gain by pointing out a players mistake on this board, hell I even point out dolphins mistake on this board, but as Wys, Rich and Jaded and a lot more saw, the Ravens ran the ball effective up the gut. Didn't any of you tape the game? Rewatch it, I bet you see Adams get knock down by one player on a straight up blocking assignment. Justa he shouldn't have to get better, he's been doing the same thing for a while..as you would tell a finfan, don't make excuses for him. This not smack, but simply the truth.
Actually MD, I saw a lot more success by the Ravens running at the DEs. They had some cutback runs that put them back inside, but that also came back to hurt them (forced fumble). I think unless the Bills' DEs address that, teams are going to run at the DEs often. It's early, so I feel confident that something will be done and it won't be as easy to run on the defensive front once the season is underway.
Rich, just about all of the runs that Baltimore had were between the Ts. I think only one outside of it.
In either case, even it it is an off tackle run, the DT still should be in on making the tackle/stop. Adams didn't even register an assist.
I know we're getting into this mode such as existed last year w/ Drew, namely that "intangibles" and "non-statisitical" "contributions" begin to mean more than the tangibles and statistical performance measures do. But unless teams are simply "running away" from him, which they didn't do BTW, then that argument can't hold water.
We should all be equally concerned here. This shouldn't be a "pro Adams/anti-Adams" argument. Support the man if he plays well, don't support him as the starter if he doesn't. But we have to be able to come to a conclusion, and turning something like this into an "intangibles" argument given the clear absence of much support for solid play isn't going to cut it.
Time will tell. We'll simply have to wait. But I will say this, that Adams had better be looking over his shoulder at the former Texas A&M standout!
R. Rich
08-11-2003, 10:55 AM
Yeah, time will tell, that's for sure. If Adams can't cut it, we'll find out. As for making the tackles/being in on them, if that were true, you'd see more DTs among the league leaders in tackles instead of LBs. I do see your point though; he should be into the backfield more than he was in that game, whether he's pushing the pocket back in pass defense or clogging up the lanes to stuff the run.
Throne Logic
08-11-2003, 12:13 PM
We need some more of these:
timfromjersey
08-11-2003, 12:24 PM
Look, was Ted Washington a pass rusher? NO. All he did was clog the middle. That is all S. Adams has to do, approach that same level, to help this defense. You have to think of it as realizing certain defensive improvement goals by the greater priority of need. RUN DEFENSE FIRST! Then pass rush. The pass rush and statistically, the pass defense, will improve in proportion to the increase in long passing situations forced on the opposing teams offense.
This will make the opponents one dimensional and not likely to beat the Bills in a aerial shootout.
As far as the pass rush, Adams just needs to collapse the pass protection now and then.
You can't simply afford to have a DT who's only move is to sidestep an OL-man and try to clog a single gap off of man-to-man blocking! A good RB/OL would figure that out in two seconds, especially if they can push the DT around the way that Sam was getting pushed around on Saturday. All you do is push him to one side and have your RB pick the other!
That's silly! This "blocking the lane" thing is a cliched underanalysis.
As well, he didn't even do that very well on Saturday as he got pushed around by guys giving up 40 lbs. on him! For a player to consistently draw a double-team that's fine, but Sam didn't do that last year or on Saturday. I doubt he's all-of-a-sudden gonna start commanding that w/o increasing his speed, strength, etc. Is that gonna happen? Didn't look like he was real close to doing that on Sat.
pmoon6
08-11-2003, 05:47 PM
I remember a game during the '90 season against Denver.The Bill's were down 21 in the 4th and all the so-called Bill's fans were saying how we sucked and Kelly sucked.They came back with something like 24 in 1:40 and won.This is just a preseason game so all the doom and gloom is at least a little premature.After all what can you really do about it?Believe in your team,keep positive,and after all else fails,enjoy the games for what they are......entertainment.
pmoon6
08-11-2003, 05:48 PM
or you could spend alot of time *****in about what is wrong with you team and then apply for GM.
cordog
08-11-2003, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by pmoon6
I remember a game during the '90 season against Denver.The Bill's were down 21 in the 4th and all the so-called Bill's fans were saying how we sucked and Kelly sucked.They came back with something like 24 in 1:40 and won.This is just a preseason game so all the doom and gloom is at least a little premature.After all what can you really do about it?Believe in your team,keep positive,and after all else fails,enjoy the games for what they are......entertainment.
My thoughts exactly, couldnt have said it better myself.
I tried that w/ several other players and it didn't go over really well!
;)
I guess they have to have "superstar" status for that to work or they don't seem to "count as much!"
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