The Preseason....

[Historian]

While the preseason is barely two weeks old, I must admit, the football I'm seeing has been really high quality. Cleveland and Green Bay looked to be in mid-season form last night, just as the Bills and the Ravens did last week. Even when the second and third string get in there, the execution has been sharp, and I have not seen a lot of yellow flags.

This is going to be a really competitive year all around.

Thoughts?

[TypicalBill]

deffinately, i agree!! .. Kelly Holcombe last night was a monster :eek: ... he should win the starting job , i dont care how much $ Couch gets... Holcombe did it against the 1st team D too.


Im looking for consistency today... i wanna see if our D can carry on from where they left off.. i wanna see T.Brown more comfortable and throwing better passes out there.. i wanna see some more of AVP .. i wanna see Pucillo looking good and making the call difficult for the coaches as to whom wins the RG spot.. I wanna see a couple of Scoring drives led by DB... lets see, what else??

[WG]

Exactly! On both!

I'd like to see Brown play w/ the first unit.

G.B./Cleveland did look sharp yesterday. I think we'll look much better tonight too. Gotta remember that last week's game was only after two weeks of camp.

As to Holcomb, he should have been starting last year too. This nonsense NFL GM mentality that says you play the higher paid player is idiocy!

Here's an analogy:

You buy a really nice cut of Filet Mignon and put it in your fridge. Then the next day you buy some really nice sirloin burgers for much less. Well, you get hungry and go to the fridge only to find that you didn't cook the FMs quickly enough an they're bad.

Not wanting to "waste the money" you cook up the FMs anyway even tho you realize that eating them won't be healthy. Could get sick, get the runs, a bad health decision one way or another and for sure won't be tasty. Nevertheless, the money you paid is on the forefront of your mind so you cook them up and eat them. You don't enjoy the meal b/c the meat was bad. They weren't tasty, the meal left you unfulfilled and unsatisfied although 'you're full.'

Meanwhile, some perfectly good, healthy, and much more than tasty, certainly more tasty then the FMs, sirloin burgers are still sitting in your fridge unused!

That's the lame, lame methodology that NFL GMs, most of them apply to players, particularly QBs. It's one thing to "not give up" on a player who's only in their 2nd or 3rd year, but when you have a QB who's doing what you want the highly paid QB to do, then WHO CARES who's doing it?

It's unbelieveable to me! I just don't get it! It tells me that many GMs are idiots. Every fan and the media fully understand that just b/c a player is a high-round top-dollar pick that that doesn't mean they'll do anything. So why not just run w/ the best player at the position. If the "star" feels slighted, then let him compete when the opportunities arise!

IMO Cleveland may have been 11-5 or 12-4 w/ Holcomb at QB. The lost games to PIT scoring only 13 on the game, to BALT scoring only 21, PIT 20, and CAR 6. Couch was pretty bad throwing 18 INTs to as many TDs.

Funny thing is, that his career totals thru his first 4 seasons are not much different from Drew's over his first three seasons. Drew: 53 TDs/58 INTs first 3 seasons. Couch: 57 TDs/61 INTs over his first 4 seasons. At least Couch had one season of more TDs than INTs. Both did that in about 10K yards, but Couch on ~ 1,500 attempts, Drew on ~ 1,750 attempts. Both are separated by only 2.3 in career QB rating!

Interesting, eh!

[casdhf]

Not really

[WG]

And BTW, (:D just)

It was for those years that Drew received much of his praise!

How come Couch hasn't received the same?

[casdhf]

Why does everyting turn into a Bledsoe discussion?

[WG]

I just noticed how closely 57/61 resembled 53/58.

57/61 is a better ratio slightly, w/ lesser talent to work with.

Don't you agree?

I never intended to post that, but it begged asking the question, at least to me.

I think it's a very valid question. And consider that Drew had at least what Couch has had talent-wise. So less should have in fact been expected outta Couch.

Drew had very good to excellent RBs, a world-class/all-pro TE, and solid WRs.

Couch has had no rushing game to speak of, only one mediocre WR in Kevin Johnson, Campbell as his TE. Yet, his best two seasons were right in there w/ Drew's best and overall in his first years.

So why isn't Couch regarded as some sort of monster QB??

There are other similarities too. Neither, until this season w/ Couch, has had their starter status threatened other than due to injury.

Couch also missed half a season early on, so his numbers in terms of overall yardage would have approached Drew's much sooner w/ another 9 games under his belt.

I just find it interesting. You can't argue that their contributions were similar over the first few years of their careers, albeit for different teams. You also can't argue that Couch hasn't had anywhere near the talent Drew had.

So again, why is Couch regarded as not being very good while at the same time in Drew's career, he was heralded as being "among the greats?"

I know what the answer is, do you?

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I know what the answer is, do you?

Not really....but I'm sure you'll tell us. :ontome:

[ArcticWildMan]

Hey, how about that Takeo Spikes!!! Isn't he a monster!! :D

[casdhf]

I think we should trade for Tim Couch. That way, we'll have another underacheiver on the roster that Wys can fall in love with. :rolleyes:

[WG]

He's a madman,...

...if/when healthy! :D

[WG]

I'm convinced that Spikes is gonna do for the Bills what Ray Lewis has done for the Ravens!

IMO Spikes will be known as the best OLB in football after this season. A higher profile team coupled with talent around him will highlight his season nicely!

Again, if healthy. At this point we have no idea what's actually wrong.

[ArcticWildMan]

He's fine. They are just letting him rest up so he doesn't agravate his hammy or whatever is sore.

[WG]

Yeah, I agree.

I do still think it's funny that no one dares address my original question however...

Especially cas!

;)

[Alluro]

Wys, Bledsoe was winning with the tuna at the time, couch has yet to win anything in cleveland. And Drew didn't have the best qb in football (McNabb) get taken right after him to always be compared against.

[Alluro]

I remember Drew having some memorable games too like that shootout against Marino, or his comeback game against minnesota. Drew would have games were he'd show flashes of being maybe another great qb...Couch seems to consistently be a 2 TD, 2INT guy game in and game out, where as drew seemed to be more BOOM or BUST!.

[WG]

Originally posted by Alluro
Wys, Bledsoe was winning with the tuna at the time, couch has yet to win anything in cleveland. And Drew didn't have the best qb in football (McNabb) get taken right after him to always be compared against.

Totally untrue Alluro.

Drew was 5-11 and 6-10 two of those seasons.

10-6 the other, but that's not much different than 9-7 for Cleveland last year. Both teams made the playoffs!

Cleveland was like 2-14 or 3-13 those first couple of seasons, but WTH, how can any QB have expected to do better w/ no talent on O. They had what we had in '01 or worse.

But that simply isn't true. Besides, if they were winning, how do you attribute that to a QB who can't even put up more TDs than INTs?


Originally posted by Alluro
I remember Drew having some memorable games too like that shootout against Marino, or his comeback game against minnesota. Drew would have games were he'd show flashes of being maybe another great qb...Couch seems to consistently be a 2 TD, 2INT guy game in and game out, where as drew seemed to be more BOOM or BUST!.

Well, you're right about part of that; the part of Drew having some big games. But see, and here's the kicker, while Drew has several big games each year he has as many if not more extremely uneventful ones and ones where he really doesn't contribute, just like last year.

If he were to be much more consistent instead of putting up 7 TDs v. teams like Minn. and Chi. and then only 1 TD/game for the rest on average, and 3 of those on big plays, then perhaps a team like ours would have been 11-5 or 12-4. But tossing 2 or 3 INTs in many other games doesn't really help.

Again, everyone likes to dismiss 75% of Drew's games played in favor of a handful of games v. poor teams in order to establish his worth. Unwise. IMO Drew and Couch are about equal. The BIG difference is the treatment that Drew's gotten in the media vice that that Couch has gotten. Drew was a golden boy coming into the league and nothing he did was scrutinized nearly as much as it would have been for other QBs. Why? IDK. Nevertheless, true. It's made a WORLD of difference as perceptions often rule the roost, as in his case. I know of no other QB who's consistently been touted as among the league's best after having only put up 3 seasons of more than 20 TDs w/ as many passing yards as he puts up and fewer INTs than TDs.

Any other QB would have been criticized MUCH more highly w/ play like that. That's why I think this is gonna be Drew's final year as a "premier QB" in this league. He'll still have a worth, but IMO he's gonna be known as a QB who isn't consistent and who's short passing game is so detrimental to the team that he's only considered very, very average after this season.

I just hope it doesn't ruin what else we've got going on!

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Yeah, I agree.

I do still think it's funny that no one dares address my original question however...

Especially cas!

;)

Everybody is trying to stay on topic, Wys
:deadhorse

We know where to find your threads registering your disgust of Drew Bledsoe.

[Alluro]

The Drew Henson era begins next year

[Alluro]

Bledsoes 2nd season where had over 4500 yds passing and 25 TD passes is better than any season couch has to date(even with drews 27 picks)...that was the season when everyon started saying he is going to be one of the greats. Couch hasn't had that breakout season yet.

Bledsoe threw for 4500 yds with vincent brisby and michael timpson at WR. Ben Coates the TE was actually the #1 WR on the team..and the featured running back on the team was the vaunted marion butts.

[Alluro]

If Josh Reed can step in to fill the Peerless vacuum, Bledsoe should still finish near the top in yds and passing TDs....I'm not sold on Reed being able to do that, but we'll see.

[casdhf]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Yeah, I agree.

I do still think it's funny that no one dares address my original question however...

Especially cas!

;)

What was the question? I just skipped to the end of the dribble and replied with a witty remark. :D

[cordog]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Totally untrue Alluro.

Drew was 5-11 and 6-10 two of those seasons.

10-6 the other, but that's not much different than 9-7 for Cleveland last year. Both teams made the playoffs!

Cleveland was like 2-14 or 3-13 those first couple of seasons, but WTH, how can any QB have expected to do better w/ no talent on O. They had what we had in '01 or worse.

But that simply isn't true. Besides, if they were winning, how do you attribute that to a QB who can't even put up more TDs than INTs?



Well, you're right about part of that; the part of Drew having some big games. But see, and here's the kicker, while Drew has several big games each year he has as many if not more extremely uneventful ones and ones where he really doesn't contribute, just like last year.

If he were to be much more consistent instead of putting up 7 TDs v. teams like Minn. and Chi. and then only 1 TD/game for the rest on average, and 3 of those on big plays, then perhaps a team like ours would have been 11-5 or 12-4. But tossing 2 or 3 INTs in many other games doesn't really help.

Again, everyone likes to dismiss 75% of Drew's games played in favor of a handful of games v. poor teams in order to establish his worth. Unwise. IMO Drew and Couch are about equal. The BIG difference is the treatment that Drew's gotten in the media vice that that Couch has gotten. Drew was a golden boy coming into the league and nothing he did was scrutinized nearly as much as it would have been for other QBs. Why? IDK. Nevertheless, true. It's made a WORLD of difference as perceptions often rule the roost, as in his case. I know of no other QB who's consistently been touted as among the league's best after having only put up 3 seasons of more than 20 TDs w/ as many passing yards as he puts up and fewer INTs than TDs.

Any other QB would have been criticized MUCH more highly w/ play like that. That's why I think this is gonna be Drew's final year as a "premier QB" in this league. He'll still have a worth, but IMO he's gonna be known as a QB who isn't consistent and who's short passing game is so detrimental to the team that he's only considered very, very average after this season.

I just hope it doesn't ruin what else we've got going on!

Bledsoe and the Pats did make the playoffs in his 2nd season, 1994. They knocked off the Bills in december in Rich Stadium to make the playoffs. Which happened to be a big game that drew won

[cordog]

and BTW, your misusing the stats once again. Your comparing bledsoe's 3 years to couch's 4. Bledsoe's numbers are better thru 3 years then couch's 4. If you take 4 years from both players Bledsoe has 80 TDs and 73 ints. and couch has like you said 57-61. Also bledsoe has 10,556 yds and couch has 9812. So thru 4 years bledsoe is a better QB, with 2 playoff appearances, one of them being a super bowl

[cordog]

wys, no rebut??

[WG]

Originally posted by Alluro
Bledsoes 2nd season where had over 4500 yds passing and 25 TD passes is better than any season couch has to date(even with drews 27 picks)...that was the season when everyon started saying he is going to be one of the greats. Couch hasn't had that breakout season yet.

Bledsoe threw for 4500 yds with vincent brisby and michael timpson at WR. Ben Coates the TE was actually the #1 WR on the team..and the featured running back on the team was the vaunted marion butts.

IDK there Alluro. To me, anytime you toss 27 INTs your value and utility to the team are gonna be somewhat limited.

Besides, when a QB is given the opportunity to toss over 700 passes easily, and achieving nearly 4,600 yards, I'd sure hope that 25 TDs were in the mix. Actually, for opps like that, IMO a good QB would easily put up at least 30 TDs, which, OH BTW, Drew's never done!

You can't simply dismiss 27 INTs as inconsequential. Everyone ranted about RJ's sacks, INTs are clearly worse than sacks! 27 is enough to ruin a good season. Heck, last year he ruined 7 games w/ only 15.

[WG]

I'm not even gonna respond to the rest of this nonsense. These "counter analyses" are so incredibly shallow.

[cordog]

whatever wys, you get on here and talk all this crap and try to sound smart when your so called "analysis" is shallow to begin with.