Winfield, a lockdown corner??

[WG]

I'm just watching the game now off tape. While yes, this is preseason and the games don't matter, individual performances certainly do.

IMO that game clearly demonstrates that Winfield is not the lockdown corner that some have said he is. He's excellent all-around, but his coverage skills are average or slightly better.

His play has indicated that all evening, not just on his WR's catches.

[LtBillsFan66]

Why because he had 2 bad plays. In 3 years we are judging Winfield on 2 bad plays??? We all know he's better than that. Deion got burned every blue moon. Aaron Glen gets burned once every few years.

[ArcticWildMan]

I've always said he was not a cover corner, and a lot of folks here have always said I'm crazy (I'm enjoying this moment of vindication :D ). He's a great run stopper and tackler, but the guy is NOT a cover CB.

[WG]

Originally posted by billsfanone
Why because he had 2 bad plays. In 3 years we are judging Winfield on 2 bad plays??? We all know he's better than that. Deion got burned every blue moon. Aaron Glen gets burned once every few years.

No. B/c he wasn't a "lockdown" corner last year or any other year either.

Two "bad" plays??

No! Two absolutely reprehensible "I got my jock handed to me" plays! You know, the kind that Drew makes in key games to give the other team 14. ;)

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
No! Two absolutely reprehensible "I got my jock handed to me" plays! You know, the kind that Drew makes in key games to give the other team 14. ;)


How many times has that happened in the last 3 years?

[ArcticWildMan]

A few times, BF1. More times than a supposed Pro-Bowl caliber CB should have happen to him.

[ArcticWildMan]

The number one stat that proves he isn't a cover CB are the number of INT's he has. ;)

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
The number one stat that proves he isn't a cover CB are the number of INT's he has. ;)


Ah. You kid me I hope.

[ArcticWildMan]

No.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by billsfanone
Ah. You kid me I hope.

No kidding...the number of interceptions being high means he has good hands. T. Smith was a very good cover CB, but couldn't catch a cold.

[WG]

Originally posted by billsfanone
How many times has that happened in the last 3 years?

Don't misunderstand BFO. I like Winfield. But let's get real, his primary skills have never been as a cover CB. That's all.

In any case, "lockdown" CBs don't make those mistakes! Not in regular season, not in preseason, and certainly not twice in any single game.

Winfield is a great all-purpose CB and he has an extraordinary ability when it comes to hitting and covering the run. But his cover skills are in the average-to-above-average category. He never was nor ever will be a "lockdown" CB.

To answer your question, he's been beat before. Plenty of times. Perhaps not for two huge plays like that in one game, but he does get beat.

[LtBillsFan66]

Originally posted by The_Philster
No kidding...the number of interceptions being high means he has good hands. T. Smith was a very good cover CB, but couldn't catch a cold.

He was not thrown at a lot last year or the last few years. If he was dropping ints left and right I would agree. If he was burnt (yes like he got smoked last night) often I would agree. AW is a solid corner. Cover wise too.

[WG]

Originally posted by billsfanone



Ah. You kid me I hope.

No BFO, he "doesn't kid you!"

Opposing QBs, contrary to the views of some, throw plenty his way and do it relatively effectively at times. He has some great games, but he gets beat often too.

Again, there are few better CBs v. the run however.

BTW, these announcers are idiots!!!

[Kelly The Dog]

Which two plays?

[WG]

IDK Kelly. Some have said two plays.

There was that McCareins TD on which AW clearly got toasted.

The other was that EZ play where Tenn. scored as AW flew by to the right side of the screen. If coverage had been a tad bit tighter than he would have been able to defend that pass. The reason he was flyin' by was b/c he was out of position.

[Kelly The Dog]

That wasnt AW, it was Kevin Thomas.

[Kelly The Dog]

In fact, I just watched it again. You can see Antoine Winfield completely on the other side of the field, covering the slot receiver. He is nowhere near the play. It was Kevin Thomas. AW made one bonehead play in a pre-season game.

[WG]

YOu may be right Kelly!

I didn't think that the slot guy was Winfield b/c he seemed too big. It's very tough to tell, but you may be correct.

If so however, then Clements and Winfield were both on the R. Haven't seen that before w/ twins to either side. That would leave Thomas and Wire alone on the other. Odd.

Just another example of Theisman, Mcqwire, and the third pinhead being next to useless!

[WG]

Since you have a tape, are you one of those sayin' that Adams played well?

[Kelly The Dog]

Actually, you can see clearly 26 when the play is going on. And you can clearly see Kevin Thomas's towel on his pads. And while I totally agree with Maguire and Theisman being idiots, on the replay Theisman says he thinks it's Kevin Thomas, and then Maguire pipes in and says Winfield. Those two analysts are so bad and so wrong so often it's sickening.

[Tatonka]

makes me feel better knowing that wasnt wini.. but i thought KT was gonna be a great cover corner.. how the hell did he miss that pick?? :D

[Kelly The Dog]

If that Adams question was toward me, I am one of those ones that thinks Adams doesn't have to make one tackle and still be enormously effective. The fact is, regardless of what play you were watching, the Ravens nor the Browns nor the Titans ran up the middle on us, which is Adams main reason to live. Eddie George had one run of six yards, away from Adams that I think Spikes stops where Stevenson got blown up. I saw Adams a couple plays push his guy back. I saw him make a tackle from behind. I saw him take up space. I saw him not even try and do his job. I think it's going to be extremely difficult to run on us in the regular season, especially up the middle. Teams will be able to get 3-4 yards off the tackles because Denney and Schobel stink, but here'sto hoping Spikes and Posey or Fletcher or Wire or Clements or Winfield or Prioleau come screaming up to cut them down.

[MDFINFAN]

Originally posted by Kelly The Dog
If that Adams question was toward me, I am one of those ones that thinks Adams doesn't have to make one tackle and still be enormously effective. The fact is, regardless of what play you were watching, the Ravens nor the Browns nor the Titans ran up the middle on us, which is Adams main reason to live. Eddie George had one run of six yards, away from Adams that I think Spikes stops where Stevenson got blown up. I saw Adams a couple plays push his guy back. I saw him make a tackle from behind. I saw him take up space. I saw him not even try and do his job. I think it's going to be extremely difficult to run on us in the regular season, especially up the middle. Teams will be able to get 3-4 yards off the tackles because Denney and Schobel stink, but here'sto hoping Spikes and Posey or Fletcher or Wire or Clements or Winfield or Prioleau come screaming up to cut them down.

I agree with this statement, but it doesn't do anything for your pass rush. Adams will be a lot more active in regular season, but he will fade and not take up as many double teams. But you guys seem to be playing miami style up the middle, let the takles take up the OL and let the LB's make the tackles.

[Tatonka]

screw the pass rush.. who needs one!

:chuk:

[Kelly The Dog]

MDFINFAN: "I agree with this statement, but it doesn't do anything for your pass rush. Adams will be a lot more active in regular season, but he will fade and not take up as many double teams. But you guys seem to be playing miami style up the middle, let the takles take up the OL and let the LB's make the tackles."


Although I think Adams will only play half the snaps, if that, in passing downs, I actually do think it helps the pass rush. He won't make any sacks, but Schobel has a little speed and moves. Last year, there was ZERO push up the middle. The OL had our DTs at the LOS. When the ends did get some pressure, the QBs, almost every single time, simple stepped up a foot or two, and had a HUGE pocket. Then the ends would be behind him and be ridden out by the tackle. With Adams there, pushing the OG back a yard or two, the QB can't step up and those ends get the sacks they werent getting last year.