Is being a negative fan

[Bufftp]

Is being a negative fan
Unique to Bills fans,
Unique to fans over 40
or unique to fans who drink too much wing sauce?

Is being a negative fan actually an extension of ones personality?

Or the Bills haven't shown us anything positive in two pre-season games so their is nothing else to talk about?

[WG]

If you think I'm a negative fan, then you haven't sat next to me at games!

I'll tell you what's amazing. It's completely ignoring a downward plummet by the O last season dragging us from the 1st ranked O, indisputably, to the 11th ranked O. Do you have any clue as to how poorly you have to play in order to fall that far after a third of the season?

This isn't simply about two PS games. It's about a continuation of last season. These games are merely "more of the same." OK D, piss poor O.

Instead of saying 2 PS games, why not just say 12 straight games!

[WG]

As well, I wouldn't say that the "Bills haven't shown us anything", what I'd say is that they completely shown that we're no different from last year barring whatever changes when Spikes steps onto the field!

[Bufftp]

actually I was refering to all the negative post, I agree with you what is troubling is we havn't shown any improvment maybee decline.

By nature I tend to stress the positive, but these last two pre-seasons have made that quit difficult.

When we lost all those pre-season games during the SB years, the first teamers were always efficitent and effective-not the case here. And the penalities- no excuses.

My point is the negativity is a result of what we have seen.

[WG]

Ahh!

Indeed!

Well, we have the Rams on our home turf on Saturday. Let's see what they produce.

I just hope I can get the game.

[Bufftp]

don't think its being televised.

[bernielivsey_1]

4 SB's, 3-13 and 8-8 twice, and Rob Johnson will do that to a fan. :jawdrop:
But I am confident we will have a better season than last year so that means 9-7, 10-6, or even 11-5 so that means playoffs hopefully. But T. Brown does suck.:woot:

[Bufftp]

Originally posted by bernielivsey_1
. But T. Brown does suck.:woot:
troublemaker:punchu:

[northernbillfan]

What I find funny about this thread is that Wys came in and tried to be realistic, and yet he was still full of negativity. The exact thing Bufftp used to compare personalities.

I too look for any hint of light, regardless of the situation. And I believe it is an extension of ones personality.

We're all calm and sane while Wys is :nerd:


Originally posted by bernielivsey_1
4 SB's, 3-13 and 8-8 twice, and Rob Johnson will do that to a fan.

Yup, it sure has a dragging effect on us.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Bufftp
don't think its being televised.

It is in the Buffalo area....tape delay. :D Sunday at 9pm on WKBW

[don137]

I agree with you Bufftp. Now I realize the Bills are not perfect but I have been disappointed in the posts lately. Everything is so negative. It seems people rarely talk about the positive but every negative thing is talked about to death. I agree in being a realist and not seeing the team through rose colored glasses like many sports fans but I think too many Bills fans have gone to the extreme and are starting t sound as negative as when talking about the Bills as Fin fans. I have posted a lot less lately because while I like to remain a realist I do not want to be sucked into posters that say five negative posts to one positive.:shakeno:

[doug45]

Originally posted by Bufftp


Or the Bills haven't shown us anything positive in two pre-season games so their is nothing else to talk about?

I think what has people a little upset is not the last two games but the last 3 years of games. I know I have been to every home game over these years and can count very few good ones. I as many have great hopes for this season and to see it start this way is a shame. I KNOW it is not the season yet but this team is really not showing any heart on the field. I don't care about the loss but the lack of winning drive.

They know this year is the end of the 5 year contracts for many sesason tickets and they have to win. They have been pushing for early renewal but many people want to see what they will do this year first. I got a letter fromTD witch said if they don't make the play-offs he would concider it a wasted season.

[WG]

Originally posted by bernielivsey_1
4 SB's, 3-13 and 8-8 twice, and Rob Johnson will do that to a fan. :jawdrop:
But I am confident we will have a better season than last year so that means 9-7, 10-6, or even 11-5 so that means playoffs hopefully. But T. Brown does suck.:woot:

Going from 3-13 to 8-8, especially at the hands of mostly other ~ 3-13 teams isn't any real feat 1. Reaching 8-8 can be done almost by accident in the NFL. When we were 3-13, we were not good. But most blame it on RJ when the real reason was that our OL BLEW. Our DL BLEW. It all starts w/ the lines.

As I said, moving from 8-8 to much better is going to take something. IMO we weren't an 8-8 team. We were less than that. Everyone praised, and continues to praise, Drew for that difference of 5 games even though we should have won even more games last year and failed to due to him.

Rob Johnson has his issues which are serious. But let's not, which we do, blame the entirety of '01s woes on him. Most facets of last year's team were better than that year's. OL was incredibly better, Henry finally provided us w/ a non-rookie capable RB, largely b/c the OL was better, our D's play improved w/ a healthy MLB. Yet everyone rants as if the only change from '01 to '02 was Drew in for Rob.

When you look at who we beat, are you impressed?

6-10 Minn
2-14 Bungals
3-13 Chicago
4-12 Detroit
Houston, what, 2-14
S.D., barely w/ 20 pts., 8-8
Miami half beaten up and in a snowstorm.

Big deal. Meanwhile, when the season was over, everyone appeared to be astonished that we won those games!

Go figure. Meanwhile, we got our asses handed to us by teams ranging from only marginally better, or not even as good, to playoff teams. We couldn't score against those teams for the most part, even w/ the "All Pro" cast of talent on the offensive side of the ball.

13 pts. v. the Jets from the O
16 v. piss poor K.C. D
7 & 17 v. the Pats
0 v. G.B.

Even in wins our O underachieved:

16 pts. v. Miami
20 v. S.D.
24 v. Detroit at home?

On any day, a "top" offense, which we were supposed to have, should be able to put away the league's worst Ds easily by the end of the 3rd Q. Yet, and largely due to our offensive inabilities, we managed to allow bad teams to hang in there right up until the last minutes because our O couldn't put any points on the board.

As well, a "top" O should also easily be able to score what the average points against a team are vs. poor Ds, yet, we didn't even do that in several games v. poor Ds. Detroit, Cincy, K.C., G.B., S.D.

Brown may suck, but if you think Drew's gonna play w/o all the red zone issues he's had for 10 seasons now, then I got news for ya. My original hopes were that we, as a team, would be playing so well that Drew's errors wouldn't haunt us like they did last year w/ 18 TOs resulting in 28 lost points and 52 opponent points scored for a swing of 80 points in those 7 lost games or over 11 PPG. Instead, we're not playing anywhere close to that level.

My expectations were much higher. MUCH! After 3 weeks of camp, there's no way on earth that any team w/ as much talent that we have and returning as many starters as we are, should have the kinds of issues that we are experiencing.

What's funny is that there are the same exact concerns in the regional media. I read thru the reports yesterday off the home page, and you know what, I didn't see a whole lot more optimistic than what I've been saying.

I'm not just gonna stick my head in the sand and say, ehhh, it'll all work out come opening day. Many people may be that naive, but I'm not. Not when we face the Pats, a team that is fully prepared now and how prepared they'll be on opening day I can't imagine w/ them realizing that we're planning on fighting them.

And what if Spikes isn't 100% then?

There are lots of positives about this team. But dreaming about what Denney can do isn't among them. Until he actually plays way above where he now is, he'll never amount to anything better than average, if even that.

Hoping that Drew is all-of-a-sudden gonna find his short passing game after 10 seasons of not having a clue, and in light of the fact that he's played amongst the worst QBs in the league for the last 12 games isn't going to do it.

Hoping that Jones will A. be fully healthy, and B. match his single only above avg. season of 4 years ago isn't going to do it.

Talking about Adams' pro bowl years and his accolades while he was with Seattle and Baltimore amidst playing like a washed up plug also isn't going to do it.

Hoping that one of our other DEs who've given no particular hopes of being anything other than what they've been, or average, will step up isn't going to cut it.

Hoping that a second-year 7th rounder will be able to step in for a QB like Drew who needs the Atlantic Wall as protection isn't going to do it.

Meanwhile, you want positives, not you per se, but people in general; well here they are:

Henry's a pro-bowl RB who IMO can challenge for the NFL rushing title this season. BUT, how will Gilbride's play-calling and Bledsoe's audibling and TOs impact that?

Moulds is a Pro-Bowl WR and Reed is way more than adequate opposite him. But how will our overreliance, if it happens, and Gilbride's complete ineptitude nullify much of what they can contribute if used properly and not overused?

Our OL is, or at least could be, stellar! But what happens if we sustain an injury there? Can Tucker, who IMO won't even make the team, Pucillo, last year's 7th rounder who's played like crap, or Sobieski, a rookie 5th rounder, be able to adequately fill-in for a QB who gave up 54 sacks last year w/ a very good and up-and-coming OL?

Our secondary is way above average! Yet, how will DL play, now appearing that it won't be much better than last season w/ all of our fixes seemingly falling short, impact the play of the secondary again?

We have a killer set of LBs, but how effective will they be if RBs are constantly getting through our DL again while they have to continually makeup for the same holes in the DL that we had last year?

Adams was huge! The problem is that he was huge in the '90s. He's only huge insofar as girth goes now and seemingly can't move. As our primary fix for DT, will he be an improvement over last year?

There're lots of positives. But many of those were here last year too as we watched Drew personally toss 7 games into losses on the merits of poorly thrown balls!

Think about it! Our schedule doesn't feature the cupcakes that Drew amassed 7 TDs against in 2 games, and if we do the same thing this season, the best we can be will be 9-7.

As of now, we've shown nothing indicating that this season won't be a repeat of last year save for some STs play.

Am I hopeful? Sure! But my hopes are becoming increasingly more tempered.

I was much more hopeful last year at this time. Mike Williams was huge and played well even though he showed rookie struggles. Reed showed well. It was nice having some rookies who made you say "WOW!" This year we don't have any. Kelsay hasn't impressed even nearly as much as Reed did, or even Wire for that matter. Our first rounder isn't a factor and may never be. Aiken, McGee, Crowell, won't be either. If they are, then something's wrong.

Spikes is the primary reason for most of the hope and he's sitting so we simply don't know what's goin' on there or what kind of an impact he'll make. One thing's for certain however, that he can't make up for the lack of DT and DE play.

So yes, I think there are a LOT of positives, but the same positives that were here last year and were in large part negated by the negatives.

Henry was negated by Bledsoe and even moreso by Gilbride. Our secondary was negated by a poor DL, which still exists.
Red Zone opportunities were negated by INTs and missed 3rd-down-conversions.

We should be seeing glimpses that those aren't the case anymore, yet we can't seem to even generate a single situation containing some hope for that.

Is it better to say "We're gonna kick the Pats asses!" blindly, or is it better to look at things the way they really are?

Preference I suppose.

But I'll tell you what hurts the team! It's when people/fans overlook the real problems, Drew, an overweight and slow DT who stinks, etal., and continue to rant and rave about them.

I'm a huge believer that fan perceptions drive media mentality. It drove Drew's success last year and during his career. It's driving the perceptions that Adams is playing well now when he clearly isn't. It's driven the notion that Gilbride is anything other than a fool and/or idiot! It's driven the notion that everything that TD does is gold.

When that turns around, then we can begin to address reality and the real things that are gonna make this team better. Not just hopes that players will match their best seasons ever simply b/c they now don the Blue and Red! When that happens, perhaps TD will start drafting players for our actual needs instead of taking enormous gambles that we are not needing to take! Perhaps instead of getting a new slew of injured players every year we'll make a move for a solid youthful player w/o injury issues who's just entering his prime instead of grabbing up aging injured vets who maybe, if the stars all allign just right, will play well!

Am I hopeful of being more than 8-8?

I'll let you know on Monday. I will say this however, if we can't move the ball v. the Rams, if we can't generate a pass rush, if Adams still stands up, engages a single player, and barely moves, and can't even tackle a RB running by, if Drew doesn't complete any of his 3rd down throws again and continues to play poorly, then given the schedule that we face, I will write this preseason off as a failure and assume that we will be no better than last season and 8-8 again +/- 1 game. And I mean all that w/ the first team!

Because if we can't do that in all of preseason, then the chances of us doing that in RS while opening up v. the Pats is slim-to-none. When you factor in that our schedule isn't as easy as it was last year, particularly not up front, and that we play many teams w/ great Ds, solid OLs, and great secondaries, the above issues don't figure to go away after 14 games of proving that we can't beat those things.

If the option is to stick my head in the sand and repetitively shout
"Go Bills" while not having a solid foundation for that hope, then it's not something that I'm gonna do.

[bernielivsey_1]

:coffee: I read every word Wys and now I'm going to kill myself. Why couldnt we be Cardinals fans at least we'd have a chance. Oh woe is me. Our glass isnt half full its empty. Ive got my gun and I'm climbing the water tower on transit near salvitores and Im gonna put people out of there misery. Of course now that Ive read your whole post its the year 2256 and we've outlawed guns and the Bills have won 6 SB since then and I missed every one 'cause I was reading your DAMN novel. :dolfelon:

[John Doe]

Wys is not satisfied with feeling bad. He wants everyone to feel that way.

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by bernielivsey_1
:coffee: I read every word

:hail: bernielivsey_1
More strength than most have. :eek: :dizzy:
C'mon Wys.....make it more concise and to the point and you'd get a lot less flack.