Why I Have Issues with Ruben Brown?

[Creemoredrinker]

:2guns:

Ruben needs a big kick in his big fat a**. The "Coach" (a.k.a. Dickhead from WGR) says on the 1st and 5 where Drew was sacked that it was slide protection and thus it was Trey's fault. I don't know. It looked like to me it was Ruben's man who got to Drew.

My problem with Ruben is that he simply has a bad attitude and is NOT Pro Bowl material. If the powers that be simply want to put one Bill on the Pro Bowl team every year for tokenism, then let's make it someone deserving with a better attitude (Pat Williams for example).

Last pre-season (2001), Ruben was the most out-spoken about Greg's rah rah methods (bullhorn, etc.). Ruben made comments to the effect that training camp and the pre-season are really for the young players and rookies, but the veterans (like him) don't really need it.

This pre-season (2002), he "hurt" his foot and missed the first two pre-season games and some crucial training camp time. I am very suspicious of this injury. He plays the 3rd and 4th pre-season games and looks terrible -- not in shape, not mentally prepared and not giving much of an effort.

OK, Ruben, but that is all just the pre-season and since you are a veteran, you will show us all how it is done when the bullets are flying for real during the regular season.

Well, what happens during the Home Opener:

(a) Ruben gets called for two penalties ( I think one was Holding and one was Illegal Procedure);

(b) Ruben is personally beat for two sacks; and

(c) Ruben is quoted after the game of saying "it was his worst game ever".

OK, Ruben, I have had enough. Your a professional. Act like it. If I was Greg, and I fully appreciate we are NOT deep on the OL, Ruben would have sat for our second game.

I was going to call WGR last night after 7:00 PM to lay into Ruben who was on, but I could NOT be bothered.

Sorry, posters, but I had to get this off my chest. I feel much better now. Thanks for listening.

[Rude American]

Since your thread title is a statement and not a question it shouldn't have a question mark?

Oops. I'll try again.

Since your thread title is a statement and not a question it shouldn't have a question mark.

There, that's better.

[lordofgun]

He does tend to frustrate me. IT's his inconsistency that ticks me off the most. One play he does look like an all-pro. The next, he looks like a rent-a-guard. I just wish he'd give 100% on every play instead of on half the plays.

The thing that bugs me the most is his penalties, although he avoided a holding call last week.

[ArcticWildMan]

Who are you? The punctuation police? :eek:

[LtBillsFan66]

It could be a question posed by those who wish to know why creedmoredrinker has issues with Ruben.

[Creemoredrinker]

:rocket:

I see you and will get along wonderfully.

[Creemoredrinker]

:hail:

To be fair though you're IQ is NOT below 25.

[John from Hemet]

While I agree that Rueben has been inconsistant.....I still think that he (and the rest of the line for that matter) are playing 2 levels above what the were last year.....

I dont know....maybe its just me....maybe watching the fire drill that was our offensive line last year....watching John Fina struggling badly....watching defenses line up frothing at the mouth with the look of a pack of sharks looking at a pack of sea otters still fresh in my mind...

But when a see a line go into a dome and come away with exactly ONE penalty.....yeah I am pretty pumped about that....when I see a line that hadn't played much produce such a running game in game one...and such a passing game in game 2.....that gets me pumped......I think that each and every one of these linemen deserve credit

Jonas Jennings....Mike Williams might be the high number one pick...and he deserves every bit of it....but the best linemen on this team is Jonas Jennings.....it sure is nice to have a legit left tackle who is not only agile enough to keep speed rushers from creaming our QB but strong enough to turn away every bull rush....he made John Abraham into his boy toy....flat out embarressed him.....the thing I love about Jonas isn't just that he has the great measurables of the great left tackles but he is a battler.....it is interesting that the example I give is on a sack he gives up.....but on that sack he fricken fought that guy until the end....the guy had him beat and he just kept fighting...trying to give Drew time to get rid of it......he fought him all the way to the QB....but more often then not he is just dominating people...especially on running plays....

Rueben Brown.....when you can say the most inconsistant player on your team is your pro bowler...that is when you know things are going to be ok....because you know he is going to get it together.......and he hasn't even played THAT badly

Tre Teague....people can say what they want about Trey not wanting to play center....but he is giving you everything you want at that position.....he doesn't get blown back......he is reliable......he is a battler........

Marquez Sullivan....really is the gem that this staff uncovered...this guy looked like he couldn't block a doorway last year...but the jump in production for linemen is very sharp from 1st to 2nd year if they work on their craft....and obviously Marquez has...he is playing very well

Oh yeah...and then there is this guy Mike Williams...who I beleive could end up going to the pro bowl as a right tackle...THIS YEAR

When you think about it...I dont think it would be out of the question if Jonas, Rueben, and Mike all made it to the Pro Bowl.....

[TigerJ]

I would be surprised if we had 3 O-linemen in the pro bowl next February. It's not that I don't think they are going to be very good, but there are a lot of good linemen in the AFC. In addition there is certainly a "reputation factor" in pro bowl voting. A rookie skill position player has to have an outstanding season to compensate for the reputation factor. A young lineman has to have an incredible year to get noticed. Oddly enough, Mike Williams may have an easier time getting to the probowl than Jennings because, after all, he was a #4 draft choice, while Jennings was a third? rounder. I'll just be happy with the line if the Bills have a productive ground game and Drew Bledsoe gets through the season with only a modest number of sacks. If that happens, Buffalo will have an excellent offence.

[Creemoredrinker]

Originally posted by John from Hemet
While I agree that Rueben has been inconsistant.....I still think that he (and the rest of the line for that matter) are playing 2 levels above what the were last year.....

I dont know....maybe its just me....maybe watching the fire drill that was our offensive line last year....watching John Fina struggling badly....watching defenses line up frothing at the mouth with the look of a pack of sharks looking at a pack of sea otters still fresh in my mind...

But when a see a line go into a dome and come away with exactly ONE penalty.....yeah I am pretty pumped about that....when I see a line that hadn't played much produce such a running game in game one...and such a passing game in game 2.....that gets me pumped......I think that each and every one of these linemen deserve credit

Jonas Jennings....Mike Williams might be the high number one pick...and he deserves every bit of it....but the best linemen on this team is Jonas Jennings.....it sure is nice to have a legit left tackle who is not only agile enough to keep speed rushers from creaming our QB but strong enough to turn away every bull rush....he made John Abraham into his boy toy....flat out embarressed him.....the thing I love about Jonas isn't just that he has the great measurables of the great left tackles but he is a battler.....it is interesting that the example I give is on a sack he gives up.....but on that sack he fricken fought that guy until the end....the guy had him beat and he just kept fighting...trying to give Drew time to get rid of it......he fought him all the way to the QB....but more often then not he is just dominating people...especially on running plays....

Rueben Brown.....when you can say the most inconsistant player on your team is your pro bowler...that is when you know things are going to be ok....because you know he is going to get it together.......and he hasn't even played THAT badly

Tre Teague....people can say what they want about Trey not wanting to play center....but he is giving you everything you want at that position.....he doesn't get blown back......he is reliable......he is a battler........

Marquez Sullivan....really is the gem that this staff uncovered...this guy looked like he couldn't block a doorway last year...but the jump in production for linemen is very sharp from 1st to 2nd year if they work on their craft....and obviously Marquez has...he is playing very well

Oh yeah...and then there is this guy Mike Williams...who I beleive could end up going to the pro bowl as a right tackle...THIS YEAR

When you think about it...I dont think it would be out of the question if Jonas, Rueben, and Mike all made it to the Pro Bowl..... :

cool:

Yes, the OL is a zillion times better than last year and I am just as high on them as a unit as you are John.

Having said that and knowing you have a little one who plays football as well, you can't tell me you are impressed with Ruben's attitude. Let's face it -- it sucks!

Yes, Ruben has the talent and could be a leader. All I am asking for his for him to improve his attitude and in fact, be a leader.

[lordofgun]

I'm a little worried about Teague at center. The guy has GOT to learn to snap the ball.

[THATHURMANATOR]

"My problem with Ruben is that he simply has a bad attitude and is NOT Pro Bowl material"

I don't think he has a bad attitude at all. After the Jets game he came out and told the media that it was his worst game of his career and it was basically his fault they lost. I thought that was great because he was trying to deflect criticism from the rest of his teamates which to me is a true sign of a leader.

[Creemoredrinker]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
"My problem with Ruben is that he simply has a bad attitude and is NOT Pro Bowl material"

I don't think he has a bad attitude at all. After the Jets game he came out and told the media that it was his worst game of his career and it was basically his fault they lost. I thought that was great because he was trying to deflect criticism from the rest of his teamates which to me is a true sign of a leader.


:shelby:

It was Ruben's way of deflating the critism of himself before the media did (A good defense is a good offense). Think about why he had the bad game -- it is because of his poor attitude towards practice and the pre-season. If he was in shape and ready to play, he would NOT have had the "worse game in his career".

[THATHURMANATOR]

I guess, but I don't see guys coming out and saying things like that too often no matter how bad they play.

[WCoastFin]

Ruben Brown sucks!...

[casdhf]

He's definately no Jamie Nails

[Creemoredrinker]

Originally posted by WCoastFin
Ruben Brown sucks!...

:rocket:

I promise it will be NOT pretty, but within the confines of the rules.

"Just say the word my Lord and it will be done."

[Creemoredrinker]

Originally posted by casdhf
He's definately no Jamie Nails

:lol:


He was playing -- NOT sure if he started with the Fish -- and actually did NOT look too bad.

Jamie is still a tub of goo, but the Fish found some way to make the benefits of keeping that oversized human alive versus the cost of all resources he consumes on this planet.

[WG]

TD made a mistake getting Teague for $2.5M/yr. as a C. We could have done much better if that was all they were gonna do w/ him. I know the plans were for OT, but the guy's too undersized, as he proved, for that. Anyway, it's a ton of bucks that we're paying for Teague at C. Conaty would have been a much better solution who would have freed up more than enough for a DT.

This lack of addressing the DL problem is really dampening this season. It's only gonna get worse beginning w/ this Sunday.

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
TD made a mistake getting Teague for $2.5M/yr. as a C. We could have done much better if that was all they were gonna do w/ him. I know the plans were for OT, but the guy's too undersized, as he proved, for that. Anyway, it's a ton of bucks that we're paying for Teague at C. Conaty would have been a much better solution who would have freed up more than enough for a DT.

This lack of addressing the DL problem is really dampening this season. It's only gonna get worse beginning w/ this Sunday.

I dunno...I'm kind of enjoying the season so far.

[casdhf]

I agree, why be a bitter old man when we're just coming off a win where the OL played great? Teague may not have the snaps down yet, but he has blocked perfectly

[timfromjersey]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
TD made a mistake getting Teague for $2.5M/yr. as a C. We could have done much better if that was all they were gonna do w/ him. I know the plans were for OT, but the guy's too undersized, as he proved, for that. Anyway, it's a ton of bucks that we're paying for Teague at C. Conaty would have been a much better solution who would have freed up more than enough for a DT.

This lack of addressing the DL problem is really dampening this season. It's only gonna get worse beginning w/ this Sunday.

I don't think signing Teague for $2.5M/yr is a bad move. He gives the Bills versatility if either starting tackle goes down. He may be undersized, but he's quick enough to pass block and has shown he can, which is slightly more important for a left offensive tackle, especially a back up left tackle, especially with this offense and qb. What was Fina's salary anyways.

I think it is unrealistic to think you can adress all your needs for lineman on both sides of the ball with the present salary cap in place, in one offseason. And while someone in this thread said that there are a lot of good offensive lineman in the AFC, there aren't a lot of free agent ones. Besides, Conaty can't play tackle. I like the insurance Trey teague give the Bills that Bledsoe won't be blind-sided too much this year.

I still think it is too early in the season to give up on the defense so completely, predicting defensive woes all season. Gives no latitude for learning, experience and improvement with the younger players.

[Creemoredrinker]

Originally posted by timfromjersey



I still think it is too early in the season to give up on the defense so completely, predicting defensive woes all season. Gives no latitude for learning, experience and improvement with the younger players.

:drunks:

Absolutely right it is too early!

NOT only is the DL new -- 2 new starters & new DLs rotating in -- but 2 of 3 starting LBs are new and 2 of 4 starting DBs are new. That makes a grand total of 6 brand new players of the starting 11 defensive players.

Let's be patient with Jerry Gray. If he does NOT do the job this year when the offensive does, he will NOT be around next year.

[eyedog]

i've been on rubens case for the last 5 yrs. this guy is so overrated it's sickening. his play has gone down every year since his first couple. how he makes the pro bowl every year i don't know. i really believe, at least to this point , he is our worst o-lineman. in two games he has been beaten for more sacks and had more penalties than any of the other ol. why? he's supposed to be all-pro. well he isn't. it's been a facade for years and fans are starting to catch on to him. he should be the first guy next year that td restructures a contract for cap room or just let his overpaid ass walk.

[colin]

TT got a two teired bonus, he can be cut if we find someone better next year. He has to perform. So far he has WAY better than Conaty.

[Jeff1220]

Regardless of how Reuben plays, or his attitude, you shouldn't blame HIM for making the Pro Bowl every year, even when it's not deserved. It's the people who vote him in that get him their. What's he supposed to do, turn it down?

If you won a Hawai vacation and a bonus for being voted departmental employee of the year (knowing that you waste 5 hours a day on this MB), would you turn it down?

[Kelly The Dog]

Actually, Ruben had what was perhaps his best year last year, amidst all the chaos and incompetence surrounding him. His penalties are blown way out of proportion, even though he gets far too many for sure, and I just read a summer evaluation by the Sporting News War Room guys, who are pretty astute observers of talent (if you don't believe it look for the mag and actually read it, they evaluate almost every single player in the league in SPECIFIC detail and not just common generalizations), rated Ruben THE BEST guard in the entire NFL, bar none. I don't think he is nearly the best but he doesn't suck. At all. In fact, he blows his man off the ball all the time.

[Creemoredrinker]

Originally posted by Kelly The Dog
Actually, Ruben had what was perhaps his best year last year, amidst all the chaos and incompetence surrounding him. His penalties are blown way out of proportion, even though he gets far too many for sure, and I just read a summer evaluation by the Sporting News War Room guys, who are pretty astute observers of talent (if you don't believe it look for the mag and actually read it, they evaluate almost every single player in the league in SPECIFIC detail and not just common generalizations), rated Ruben THE BEST guard in the entire NFL, bar none. I don't think he is nearly the best but he doesn't suck. At all. In fact, he blows his man off the ball all the time.


....is NOT whether he should go to the Pro Bowl if invited or his talent, BUT RATHER HIS ATTITUDE TOWARDS TRAINING CAMP & PRE-SEASON. To borrow a motto, Ruben is NOT "the best that he can be..." Ruben could be much, much better if he would apply himself much earlier in the year -- the pre-season and training camp. Given how high he was drafted and his size, etc., Ruben clearly has the ability.

I just think we deserve a 100% effort from Ruben from the very beginning of the year.

[Rebecky]

Different methods work for different players -- Ricky Williams and Edgerrin James aren't real gung-ho on training camp and such -- they seem to do better with a looser reign. May Reuben does, too.

[venis2k1]

I would like to add Tony Gonzolez to that list.

[WG]

All I was saying is that for $2.5M we could have done much better for a C. If Teague has to play T, he's already shown that he's not that good at it. Why do you think Denver let him go after only one year of starting? If he were that great, then I assume they would have offfered him 1.5 - 2 M to stay. Even as a backup.

"I dunno...I'm kind of enjoying the season so far."

I'm enjoying this season immensely! FAR more than last year.

If there is one thing that I'm a little ticked over in hindsight it is that the Bills brass was SO shortsighted to think that our DL was fine! Sure, I and others who feel that way could be wrong, but there was nothing other than "pie-in-the-sky" hopes that it'd be better this year. No on-the-field proof or reason to hope!

Now it's gonna cost us and this upcoming offseason will not be nearly as rich in the opportunity to fix it.

GO BILLS!!!

[casdhf]

I definately thing calling out Teague is premature. He's had a few low snaps, but Teague, Sullivan and Williams were dominate against the Jets. Plus, he hasn't given up a sack all season and has called perfect blocking schemes.