I Hate Our OL

[TheConsigliere]

...The Dolphins bamboozled Buffalo's offensive line, bringing blitz after blitz and swarming Josh Allen (https://www.nfl.com/players/josh-allen-4/). The Fins compiled 20 QB pressures, 10 QB hits, and four sacks of Allen, generating a 29.9 pressure percent (16.4% in Weeks 1-2), per Next Gen Stats. Emmanuel Ogbah (https://www.nfl.com/players/emmanuel-ogbah/) (seven QB pressures) and Melvin Ingram (https://www.nfl.com/players/melvin-ingram/) (five QB pressures, two sacks) lived in the Bills' backfield....

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-season-week-3-what-we-learned-from-sunday-s-games

I love what Beane has done with our DL.

The whole family does.

Cousin Luigi cannot get enough Groot.

However, this OL does not have enough talent and Bates should be working on the docks rather than pretending he is a NFL OL. Bad contract.

Morse's absence was the difference in this game however the smart move would have been to draft a Centre in the first two rounds of this past draft.

Instead, we have two many Fredos on this OL.

Beane needs to taken to task for his allergy to evaluating and accumulating OL.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHH9EYZHoVU&ab_channel=Movieclips

[TheConsigliere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XqGV0IuodWE&ab_channel=justWOWTV

[TheConsigliere]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lqnbzhzgKI&ab_channel=Movieed

[Prov401]

I've always contended that our o line is easily our biggest weakness. We have terrible depth in the middle. It seems as though we can't pick up those one yard runs up the gut for the 4th consecutive season. I can see this unit being Beane's next over haul ala the d line of this off season.

[TheConsigliere]

I've always contended that our o line is easily our biggest weakness. We have terrible depth in the middle. It seems as though we can't pick up those one yard runs up the gut for the 4th consecutive season. I can see this unit being Beane's next over haul ala the d line of this off season.
I have told year after year that Beane would finally fix the OL.

Nope.

Do you know if Beane owns a horse?

[Prov401]

He finally fixed the d line after finding out Hughes, Addison, and Star just aren't good enough. Only took him 2 extra years to see it, so here's to hoping it's the o line's turn next year.

[swiper]

:rofl:

It was 100 degrees and high humidity down on the field. The Bills were in the direct sun all day, on the field & on the bench. Players were going down with heat exhaustion in the middle of the game. Muscle spasm. Dehydration. When the line is down to playing Quessenberry, then you know you've got issues. The line will be ok. Brown, Morse, Bates will be 100% next week.

[Prov401]

:rofl:

It was 100 degrees and high humidity down on the field. The Bills were in the direct sun all day, on the field & on the bench. Players were going down with heat exhaustion in the middle of the game. Muscle spasm. Dehydration. When the line is down to playing Quessenberry, then you know you've got issues. The line will be ok. Brown, Morse, Bates will be 100% next week.

If our starters are healthy? Yes. We will be ok. Still not dominant though. For me it's the lack of quality depth. It seems we have the depth everywhere else but the o line. Bobby Hart is still on our roster. Bobby Hart.

[swiper]

If our starters are healthy? Yes. We will be ok. Still not dominant though. For me it's the lack of quality depth. It seems we have the depth everywhere else but the o line. Bobby Hart is still on our roster. Bobby Hart.

Yes, Bobby Hart. And yesterday people were yearning to have him active.

[Prov401]

I'm not one of those people.

[swiper]

I'm not one of those people.

I'm not either, necessarily. But Quessenberry wasn't very good.

[Night Train]

Our OL is OK at pass blocking but gets little push in the run game. It's how they decided to construct it.

[TheConsigliere]

If our starters are healthy? Yes. We will be ok. Still not dominant though. For me it's the lack of quality depth. It seems we have the depth everywhere else but the o line. Bobby Hart is still on our roster. Bobby Hart.

Do you remember when Bobby...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XgI9-4NrZk&ab_channel=seancollins102

[notacon]

Uhhhhh....which “O-line” do you “hate”????

The real one, or the ragtag bunch of second and third stringers the Bills were forced to play??? Only two starters actually played the whole game....Dawkins and Saffold.

Van Roten is NO Jon Feliciano. The Bills have an issue with C depth. And Quessenberry (who I incorrectly thought would never make the team, for good reason) had a terrible game.


When you have to dip down into the practice squad for C Greg Mancz...a practice squad vet , an undrafted FA who is on his fourth team, to play 25% of the offensive snaps....that is NOT the Bills true O-Line.

Considering the conditions and circumstances of yesterday’s game, the O-line did better than they should have.

[Forward_Lateral]

Uhhhhh....which “O-line” do you “hate”????

The real one, or the ragtag bunch of second and third stringers the Bills were forced to play??? Only two starters actually played the whole game....Dawkins and Saffold.

Van Roten is NO Jon Feliciano. The Bills have an issue with C depth. And Quessenberry (who I incorrectly thought would never make the team, for good reason) had a terrible game.


When you have to dip down into the practice squad for C Greg Mancz...a practice squad vet , an undrafted FA who is on his fourth team, to play 25% of the offensive snaps....that is NOT the Bills true O-Line.

Considering the conditions and circumstances of yesterday’s game, the O-line did better than they should have.
Bates should be the one playing Center, if Morse is hurt, IMO. Van Roten stinks. Mancz did ok, I think, but I'm not sure. Hard to tell when the RG and RT are getting beat instantly

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

The bills got their running game going at the end of last year

what did they do then that they aren’t doing now?

i was hoping the kromer addition would booster that seeing the success they had running the ball (albeit with different personnel) the last time he was here. Thoughts?

[TheConsigliere]

The bills got their running game going at the end of last year

what did they do then that they aren’t doing now?

i was hoping the kromer addition would booster that seeing the success they had running the ball (albeit with different personnel) the last time he was here. Thoughts?
You can't make Chicken Pie out of Chicken Poop.

Plus, the Nevada heat can make someone stupid within 6 months.

[YardRat]

I certainly didn't think of it prior to yesterday so I can't be too harsh on somebody else that didn't, but considering the conditions maybe they should have rotated the olinemen like they do the defense. Better to have to deal with a little bit of discontinuity than risking somebody's life in those conditions.

On second thought, maybe I can be harsh on the professionals that get paid to be forward-thinking and creative, but apparently aren't.

[Mace]

The bills got their running game going at the end of last year

what did they do then that they aren’t doing now?

i was hoping the kromer addition would booster that seeing the success they had running the ball (albeit with different personnel) the last time he was here. Thoughts?

They had starters playing a whole game.

- - - Updated - - -


I certainly didn't think of it prior to yesterday so I can't be too harsh on somebody else that didn't, but considering the conditions maybe they should have rotated the olinemen like they do the defense. Better to have to deal with a little bit of discontinuity than risking somebody's life in those conditions.

On second thought, maybe I can be harsh on the professionals that get paid to be forward-thinking and creative, but apparently aren't.

Seriously not sure they had enough OL left to rotate them well.

[Forward_Lateral]

I certainly didn't think of it prior to yesterday so I can't be too harsh on somebody else that didn't, but considering the conditions maybe they should have rotated the olinemen like they do the defense. Better to have to deal with a little bit of discontinuity than risking somebody's life in those conditions.

On second thought, maybe I can be harsh on the professionals that get paid to be forward-thinking and creative, but apparently aren't.

Who did you want them to rotate in? Guys in the concession stand?

[YardRat]

Who did you want them to rotate in? Guys in the concession stand?

They could have pulled up another offensive lineman from the practice squad and started the rotation from the beginning. Even with the eight they dressed they could have done a rotation out of the gate.

[DraftBoy]

They could have pulled up another offensive lineman from the practice squad and started the rotation from the beginning. Even with the eight they dressed they could have done a rotation out of the gate.

Was there anybody that we could of deactivated yesterday to make room for another OL? Pretty much everybody had to play due to the heat injuries.

[YardRat]

Was there anybody that we could of deactivated yesterday to make room for another OL? Pretty much everybody had to play due to the heat injuries.

I haven't seen the snap counts yet but considering priorities Moss, Cook, TJones or Matakevitch come to mind without thinking too hard.

[Forward_Lateral]

I haven't seen the snap counts yet but considering priorities Moss, Cook, TJones or Matakevitch come to mind without thinking too hard.

Who would play special teams???

[DraftBoy]

I haven't seen the snap counts yet but considering priorities Moss, Cook, TJones or Matakevitch come to mind without thinking too hard.

Moss had our best run and Cook had his best game yet. I’m not opposed to Jones or Matakevitch, but McDermott will never do that.

[Typ0]

How the hell can we be favorites to win the SB when we can't even get a yard on the ground behind our OLine? People are hoping Beane notices this season???????

[TheConsigliere]

How the hell can we be favorites to win the SB when we can't even get a yard on the ground behind our OLine? People are hoping Beane notices this season???????

Beane hasn't noticed before.

He won't this year either.

Beane has always fundamentally undervalued the importance of the 5 player OL.

Unfortunately, that will not change going forward.

[jamze132]

It’s early in the season.

It was friggin hot.

Any given Sunday…

I’m not at all worried.

[YardRat]

Who would play special teams???

They wouldn't all be inactive, just one to make room for another lineman. Could be Moss or Cook. Who played special teams when Kumerow was ruled out?


Moss had our best run and Cook had his best game yet. I’m not opposed to Jones or Matakevitch, but McDermott will never do that.

They've always gone light at RB. I don't think one single run in three games makes Moss a 'gotta have' on game day.

[swiper]

Moss is awful.

[notacon]

Bates should be the one playing Center, if Morse is hurt, IMO. Van Roten stinks. Mancz did ok, I think, but I'm not sure. Hard to tell when the RG and RT are getting beat instantly

What I read somewhere (I can’t remember where) was that the Bills thinking was to keep moving players out of their usual position to a minimum.

Who knows if that (putting Bates at C and who knows at RG) would have been better, or worse.

Many of us here were talking about the need for interior O-line help in the draft. Beane did not agree, or there was just nothing worthwhile, and instead spent a late pick (30th pick in round 6) on T Luke Tenuta, which they released at final cuts. He was picked up on waivers by Indy and is listed as third string T.

Interesting that in the same 6th round, the Bills grabbed who may be the unfinished gem of the 2022 draft, Christian Benford at #6.

For some reason, Beane has screwed up drafting interior O-linemen. He has this shaky record.....

2017 - drafted Dion Dawkins, 2nd pick, round 2, who entered the draft at G, but was quickly moved to T. The Bills never envisioned him at G.
2018 - drafted Wyatt Teller, 29th pick, round 5....and traded him to become a star in Cleveland - probably Beane’s worst purging of talent.
2019 - drafted Cody Ford, 6th pick, round 2....probably Beane’s worse draft whiff....Ford is a bust.
2020 - Ignored the G position in draft.
2021 - drafted Jack Anderson, 8th pick, round 7, the Bills last selection and has kicked around the league and is now 3rd stringer G on NYG.
2022 - Ignored the G position in draft.

I suspect that interior O-line will be a bigger priority in 2023. And if it isn’t it should be.

[notacon]

The bills got their running game going at the end of last year

what did they do then that they aren’t doing now?

i was hoping the kromer addition would booster that seeing the success they had running the ball (albeit with different personnel) the last time he was here. Thoughts?

It’s only three weeks into the season.

In those three games, the Bills have out gained their opposition in rushing yards. Even when you take out Josh Allen’s runs. The Miami game was the worst in that they only out-gained Miami because of one long run by Moss.

Just like the Titans out ran the Bills last year, mainly because of one long run by Henry. And Tennessee is a run first team. But, Miami’s total rushing yards were only 41. Bills gained 115.

The fact is that rushing the ball is not the priority nor a winning strategy for today’s offenses. The Buffalo Bills are a pass first offense.....and their strategy is to use the short pass just like a run.

And last last year, the “Bills got their running game going” because of two factors....Josh Allen running he ball, and inferior opponents.

Josh was the leading rusher for the Bills in three of the final six regular season games. The three that Singetary was the #1 rusher, where against Carolina, Atlanta and NYJ.

With that said, the Bills need to improve their rushing game. It’s a long season.

[TheConsigliere]

So Nottie are you saying you agree our OL sucks?

[Typ0]

Beane hasn't noticed before.

He won't this year either.

Beane has always fundamentally undervalued the importance of the 5 player OL.

Unfortunately, that will not change going forward.

Is that Beane or McDermott?

[Mace]

So Nottie are you saying you agree our OL sucks?

They only had two starters play the whole game.

Imagine if you will, that Michael was overcome by a poorly prepared sauce, and it was necessary to send Fredo to address Sollozzo. Surely this would not have ended well.

[TheConsigliere]

They only had two starters play the whole game.

Imagine if you will, that Michael was overcome by a poorly prepared sauce, and it was necessary to send Fredo to address Sollozzo. Surely this would not have ended well.

The sauce would have have had horse meat in it.

Very gamey.

However, if all you had to make sauce was horse rather than beef, veal and pork (oh that last one is where the flavour is) than the sauce isn't going to be that good.

Beane only gave the Bills horse for the OL sauce.

No beef, veal and the all important pork.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQV6CijIzrc&t=80s&ab_channel=ShakemodeProductions

[TheConsigliere]

Is that Beane or McDermott?

Beane chooses the players no?

He gets input however he is the GM and chooses the ingredients for the team.

McD is the chef.

[Typ0]

Beane chooses the players no?

He gets input however he is the GM and chooses the ingredients for the team.

McD is the chef.

Don't think it works that way. McDermott is feeding Beane with what he needs to make his system plan work best. Beane is more McDermott's mechanism to connect with everything that is out there to be acquired. They both have a lot of input and are working together....but the makeup of the team is in McDermott's wheelhouse not Beane's. What can and can't be gotten and is and isn't acquired is what Beane owns.

[TheConsigliere]

I still hate our OL.

[Forward_Lateral]

Beane needs to seriously consider hiring an O-line consultant/scout. He's been terrible at drafting and signing O-line. Admit you stink at it, and hire someone who's good at it.

[notacon]

So Nottie are you saying you agree our OL sucks?
No.

[TheConsigliere]

Beane needs to seriously consider hiring an O-line consultant/scout. He's been terrible at drafting and signing O-line. Admit you stink at it, and hire someone who's good at it.

AGREED

Beane also needs to stay out of the hot Nevada heat without wearing headwear.

[notacon]

AGREED

Beane also needs to stay out of the hot Nevada heat without wearing headwear.
You screwed up your attempted diss. I should read "Beane also needs to stay out of the hot Nevada SUN without wearing headwear”

Being hot here, with less than 10% humidity is a totally different thing than steamy, sauna-like FLA. It was reported ot be around 90 degrees in Miami for the last game.

****....90 degrees here (with that low, low humidity) is like a fine spring day in the east when it’s in the 70’s. Almost balmy.

In any event, the idea that out “O-line sucks” is more determined by which O-line you are talking about.

The O-line vs Miami, did, in fact, suck. But, is that more because they only had two starters and backups getting replaced by backups lower on the depth chart....or does the O-line starting 5 “suck”???

Yes, Saffold has been a huge disappointment (so far). For such an experienced lineman, he has been a liability. Yes, the Bills do not have a suitable backup for Morse (but that does not mean the starting 5 “suck). Yes, Bates has been just so-so. And yes, Spencer Brown had a really bad game, even before he was overcome by heat sickness. He has to improve his inconsistency.

I suspect that he is just not built for the heat and humid that the Bills will not see again until next year.

We also need Ike Boettger back to see if he can do better than Saffold and/or Bates. We need Brown to be more consistent. We need Morse to not be injured.

I’m not ready to give up on the unit just yet. It’s early in the year and players and units do get better.

[Goobylal]

Apparently Van Roten was telegraphing when the snap would happen.

[Forward_Lateral]

Apparently Van Roten was telegraphing when the snap would happen.

I can't remember if it was him or Nancz that was head bobbing every time they snapped it.

[Goobylal]

I can't remember if it was him or Nancz that was head bobbing every time they snapped it.

It was Van Roten. :rolleyes:

[Typ0]

You screwed up your attempted diss. I should read "Beane also needs to stay out of the hot Nevada SUN without wearing headwear”

Being hot here, with less than 10% humidity is a totally different thing than steamy, sauna-like FLA. It was reported ot be around 90 degrees in Miami for the last game.

****....90 degrees here (with that low, low humidity) is like a fine spring day in the east when it’s in the 70’s. Almost balmy.

In any event, the idea that out “O-line sucks” is more determined by which O-line you are talking about.

The O-line vs Miami, did, in fact, suck. But, is that more because they only had two starters and backups getting replaced by backups lower on the depth chart....or does the O-line starting 5 “suck”???

Yes, Saffold has been a huge disappointment (so far). For such an experienced lineman, he has been a liability. Yes, the Bills do not have a suitable backup for Morse (but that does not mean the starting 5 “suck). Yes, Bates has been just so-so. And yes, Spencer Brown had a really bad game, even before he was overcome by heat sickness. He has to improve his inconsistency.

I suspect that he is just not built for the heat and humid that the Bills will not see again until next year.

We also need Ike Boettger back to see if he can do better than Saffold and/or Bates. We need Brown to be more consistent. We need Morse to not be injured.

I’m not ready to give up on the unit just yet. It’s early in the year and players and units do get better.


That's the hardest unit on the whole field to mix up too.

[Goobylal]

Personally, I'd put Saffold at RG and Bates back at LG.

[TheConsigliere]

Personally, I'd put Saffold at RG and Bates back at LG.

Sure but that still does not make Bates a player who should be starting on a NFL OL.

[Prov401]

Out of all our starters, Bates and Brown have definitely gotten off to slow starts. These two guys ended up getting better as last season went along, and that's what I'm hoping for now. I don't see us flipping our guards as Saffold has been used primarily on the left side throughout most of his long career.

[YardRat]

I'm not sold on Brown, big man back injuries are a thing. There's a reason there aren't too many successful 6'8" tackles.

[Forward_Lateral]

Personally, I'd put Saffold at RG and Bates back at LG.

Saffold has played LG for almost his entire career.

[Woodman]

The key is Mitch Morse when he plays our line is fine ..... when he can't go we are ****ed it's that simple.

We needed to draft Creed Humphrey and we better address it (the center position) in the next draft period.

There is no substitute for excellent center play ..... blocking assignments etc.etc.

[Woodman]

Saffold has played LG for almost his entire career.
It might be important that he would be able to play either at a high level. :scratch:

[Forward_Lateral]

Saffold has been a major disappointment so far, I agree. But, it's still early. I would give him a couple more games, at min, to see if he can get back on track. Same with Bates, at RG.

RT is a huge problem, yet again. Brown looks hurt and, quite frankly, useless, Quisenberry sucked, all that leaves is Hart.

[Goobylal]

Bates played well at LG last year. I’m not sure why they signed Saffold when that’s where he’s mostly played but I’d think he can make the switch to RG easier than Bates has. And maybe a vet presence next to him might settle Brown more.

[notacon]

Personally, I'd put Saffold at RG and Bates back at LG.

Like Typ0 just wrote, O-line is the hardest unit to mix up.

With this being Bates’ first year starting, it could be a mistake to move him around. Who knows? I suspect that both Saffold and Bates will play better with Morse in between them.

[Woodman]

I suspect that both Saffold and Bates will play better with Morse in between them.

Bingo, ......... we need Morse back in action more than anybody. JMO

[Goobylal]

Like Typ0 just wrote, O-line is the hardest unit to mix up.

With this being Bates’ first year starting, it could be a mistake to move him around. Who knows? I suspect that both Saffold and Bates will play better with Morse in between them.

True but Bates was playing LG at the end of last season and doing well. Saffold I think could make the switch to the other side easier than Bates has.

[Mace]

Bates played well at LG last year. I’m not sure why they signed Saffold when that’s where he’s mostly played but I’d think he can make the switch to RG easier than Bates has. And maybe a vet presence next to him might settle Brown more.

I honestly thought they were going to finally leave Bates alone once he emerged. Figured they'd get a right guard. Hah.

One problem with moving Saffold might be the nerve issue in his shoulder. Not sure which shoulder it is (he's had problems with both), might be worse depending on where he lines up.

[TheConsigliere]

I honestly thought they were going to finally leave Bates alone once he emerged. Figured they'd get a right guard. Hah.

One problem with moving Saffold might be the nerve issue in his shoulder. Not sure which shoulder it is (he's had problems with both), might be worse depending on where he lines up.

I just don't see a real starting NFL OL Starter in Bates.

We gambled with Safford and his injury history.

I still maintain that Beane has woefully under invested in our OL over the past 5 years.

[Woodman]

I just don't see a real starting NFL OL Starter in Bates.

We gambled with Safford and his injury history.

I still maintain that Beane has woefully under invested in our OL over the past 5 years.

:cheers:
Right now it would certainly seem so.

I wanted to draft a center for the last couple years.

We must invest in the OL, Josh Allen deserves the best protection possible and he'll take care of the rest of it.

[Goobylal]

I just don't see a real starting NFL OL Starter in Bates.

We gambled with Safford and his injury history.

I still maintain that Beane has woefully under invested in our OL over the past 5 years.

He looked like one but, again, at LG. It's kind of like how Teller looked bad with the Bills, but they were playing him at LG. The Browns trade for him and play him at RG and voila, he's an All-Pro. Saffold will only be with the Bills for a year. Bates signed a 4-year deal.

[TheConsigliere]

Nothing happened yesterday to make me love this OL.