Knox is a great guy and friend to JA, but does anyone wish we had more at TE1?

[Oaf]

Just curious if I'm in the minority wanting to see more from the TE position. He's improved his hands and consistency, yes, but I don't see contested or game-breaking plays from him.

Kittle, Kelce, Waller, Njoku, Andrews, Giesecki, Goedert, Ertz, and Friermuth are all guys I'd take over Knox today. Ertz a bit frustrating as we could've had him for peanuts last year.

We also just resigned him to a big contract - will it cost us resigning another starter?

[TacklingDummy]

He has been disappointing catching the ball this year. They all have besides Diggs.

Could be the injuries have played a part in Knox and Davis production.

[ParanoidAndroid]

You forgot Pitts and Dalton Schultz, but yeah.


He's paid appropriately for his contribution, which is top 15 territory, and he fits well on this offense. He's becoming a better blocker, though.

If we were lacking a possession game, I would be more concerned.

[Goobylal]

The guy lost his brother. And he's been dealing with injuries.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

He's recovering from an emotional loss of his baby brother. He had a big year last year. I'm sure it's impacted him mentally

[sukie]

Beastly catches in KC… no issue

[Forward_Lateral]

He’s become one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

What a dumb thread

[TacklingDummy]

He’s become one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

What a dumb thread

Pass blocking or run blocking? Wouldn't the Bills run game be better?

[notacon]

He’s become one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

What a dumb thread

I posted this in another “dumb thread” (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/261533-The-good-and-bad-Allen-Sunday-night?p=4973268&viewfull=1#post4973268) and it’s appropriate to repeat here....


This thread is soooooo Buffalo Bills hand wringing.

In The Guardian, a British news source, Jonathan Lieu pondered the pessimism of those who root (https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2022/oct/30/gabriel-jesus-is-not-the-perfect-striker-but-he-may-be-just-perfect-for-arsenal?te=1&nl=frank-bruni&emc=edit_fb_20221103) for the Arsenal soccer team....and it is a perfect illustration of what goes in Bills Country....even after a win that was never in doubt. I have quoted the author, but changed the references to Bills fans....


''It is the eternal gift of Bills fans to be able to identify the potential anxiety in virtually any situation, however favorable or triumphant. Pleasure is simply misery deferred. Most people look for crumbs of comfort; Bills fans look for crumbs of concern, scan the fixture list for oncoming hazards, scan every horizon for grey clouds. And so, even a routine and rampant 27-17 victory comes with its own quantum of unease."

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Pass blocking or run blocking? Wouldn't the Bills run game be better?

Below is the list of teams that have rushed for 100 yards or more in every game this season


Buffalo Bills

end of list

[TacklingDummy]

Below is the list of teams that have rushed for 100 yards or more in every game this season


Buffalo Bills

end of list

Yeah I seen that. Was kind of shocked.

How many 100 yard games does Singletary have?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Yet we struggle on 3rd and short. I think that's likely a scheme thing.

[Goobylal]

Yeah I seen that. Was kind of shocked.

How many 100 yard games does Singletary have?

Zero. And that's easy to find. How did you find the only team with 100 yards rushing thing?

[YardRat]

I'm good with Knox, his more productive receiving games are coming and he's turned into a good blocker. He has more receptions (17 vs 16) on far fewer targets (23 vs 33) than Gabe Davis and I don't see anybody wanting more out of WR#2. Diggs really is the only one getting consistent contribution and that's because Dorsey is focusing more on moving Stefon around to get the ball in his hands. I also saw a stat somewhere where Allen's attempts to RBs was like 13% in '20, 15% in '21, and over 20% this year so that's taking targets away from the TE too.

[TacklingDummy]

Zero. And that's easy to find. How did you find the only team with 100 yards rushing thing?

I knew that Singletary had 0. Motor has 323 yards and Allen has 306, team total 860.

I seen that Stat. either on a Facebook post, Twitter post, or someone said it during a game. Don't remember which one. Would have never guessed.

[TacklingDummy]

WYS thinking...without Allen the Bills are 30th in rushing yards per game.

[cookie G]

There is only one ball to go around, and only so many plays in a game.

So if Knox gets more targets, Diggs gets less. Then people are wondering what happened to Diggs. Singletary is getting more targets out of the backfield, they drafted a back with experience catching the ball, and just traded for another....they have built a large arsenal of weapons. On any given play, they have 3 or 4 guys on the field who can take it to the house if given a slight window. That includes Knox.

One or more of these weapons will, sheer numbers, have lesser stats.

The team leads the league in passing yards and is 2nd in passing TDs. They are 2nd in the league in scoring.

Tell me, if you lived through the drought years...would anyone, anyone at all, have expected the Bills to lead the league in passing, or be second in the league in scoring?

In the past, including the not too distant past, this team would rank in the 20's for both yards and points.

I'll take what we have now, even if it means Knox gets less targets.

[Novacane]

Diggs is alway open and there's only 1 ball. I'm not worried about Knox.

[TacklingDummy]

Diggs is alway open and there's only 1 ball. I'm not worried about Knox.
If I'm the Jets this week I put Sauce on Davis and double Diggs. Make Singletary, Hines, Cook, Mck, Knox, Shakir beat them.

The Jets D is actually decent.

[DraftBoy]

The thing with Knox is that he’s still improving in the little things. His blocking, as somebody mentioned, has gotten so much better and he does the dirty work that is needed to win big games.

Do I wish at time we had a game breaking TE who could offer more of a cover mismatch? Sure. But Knox works for our scheme.

[Mace]

There is only one ball to go around, and only so many plays in a game.

So if Knox gets more targets, Diggs gets less. Then people are wondering what happened to Diggs. Singletary is getting more targets out of the backfield, they drafted a back with experience catching the ball, and just traded for another....they have built a large arsenal of weapons. On any given play, they have 3 or 4 guys on the field who can take it to the house if given a slight window. That includes Knox.

One or more of these weapons will, sheer numbers, have lesser stats.

The team leads the league in passing yards and is 2nd in passing TDs. They are 2nd in the league in scoring.

Tell me, if you lived through the drought years...would anyone, anyone at all, have expected the Bills to lead the league in passing, or be second in the league in scoring?

In the past, including the not too distant past, this team would rank in the 20's for both yards and points.

I'll take what we have now, even if it means Knox gets less targets.

That's it in a nutshell. Knox has 23 targets, Kittle 39 in less games, Kelce 60, Ertz 60, Goedert 50.......

It's how we use a TE in this offense, and how the other teams do in theirs.

[YardRat]

The team is obviously built with a foundation of Allen and Diggs. If you really think about it, Beane has focused on the rest of the skill positions to be able to create a mismatch for a couple of games per year and take advantage of that to get a couple of wins. Davis, Knox, McKenzie, Singletary, Cook...now Hines...they aren't meant to be the focus all day every day like Josh and Stefon, but they are expected to come through when it's time to call their number. Like McKenzie against New England. Davis against KC in the playoffs. Singletary late.

[John Doe]

There is only one ball to go around, and only so many plays in a game.

So if Knox gets more targets, Diggs gets less. Then people are wondering what happened to Diggs. Singletary is getting more targets out of the backfield, they drafted a back with experience catching the ball, and just traded for another....they have built a large arsenal of weapons. On any given play, they have 3 or 4 guys on the field who can take it to the house if given a slight window. That includes Knox.

One or more of these weapons will, sheer numbers, have lesser stats.

The team leads the league in passing yards and is 2nd in passing TDs. They are 2nd in the league in scoring.

Tell me, if you lived through the drought years...would anyone, anyone at all, have expected the Bills to lead the league in passing, or be second in the league in scoring?

In the past, including the not too distant past, this team would rank in the 20's for both yards and points.

I'll take what we have now, even if it means Knox gets less targets.

Its amazing that they are able to spread the receptions around all of their players.

So far this season, 14 different players have caught passes.

They average 9 different players per game that have caught passes.

There were 2 games where 11 different players caught passes.

[Joe Fo Sho]

How many teams wish they had a TE like Knox? We're getting spoiled, guys.

[Woodman]

How many teams wish they had a TE like Knox? We're getting spoiled, guys.
Fort Knox .. I'll just say this, I'm a fan of the guy.

[Forward_Lateral]

Yeah I seen that. Was kind of shocked.

How many 100 yard games does Singletary have?

Who cares??

[Woodman]

Excited to see what Hines brings to our RB room!

100 yard games are nice but I'd rather just win the game and spread the wealth, keep everybody fresh.

[Oaf]

He’s become one of the best blocking TEs in the game.

What a dumb thread
Care to back that up any way?


Beastly catches in KC… no issue

Which do you mean? GW TD was one of the best throws of JA's career.

[Oaf]

How many teams wish they had a TE like Knox? We're getting spoiled, guys.

I dunno, how many? Maybe 15 could take him over their current guy?

People on here touting our 100 yard streak like it's a big credit to him. It's a big credit to Josh Allen.

[TacklingDummy]

People on here touting our 100 yard streak like it's a big credit to him. It's a big credit to Josh Allen. Considering the Bills would be 30th in rushing yards per game without Allen, I agree.

[Night Train]

Fantasy stats are a letdown to some, I guess.

I just root for the laundry and could care less who scores.

Knox is a good player.

[Turf]

I think its the game to game scheming resulting in his less targets, not him.

[Woodman]

I dunno, how many? Maybe 15 could take him over their current guy?

People on here touting our 100 yard streak like it's a big credit to him. It's a big credit to Josh Allen.

Josh has got to be the most difficult player in the NFL to defense ..... do what works I guess huh.

[Oaf]

I think its the game to game scheming resulting in his less targets, not him.

Has the guy ever earned 10 targets in a game?

Did he make more than 1 play in a key game against the Jets Sunday?

[Oaf]

Knox hasn't had a game where he's scored a TD with over 40 yards receiving in a year, apparently.

Yeah I get he's a good blocker. Does that mean should we pay Lee Smith $52M as well and let another defensive FA walk?

[Mace]

Knox hasn't had a game where he's scored a TD with over 40 yards receiving in a year, apparently.

Yeah I get he's a good blocker. Does that mean should we pay Lee Smith $52M as well and let another defensive FA walk?

This is probably where I get cranky with Dorsey.

The Bills have Diggs, Davis, Knox, Shakir, McKenzie, Hines, Cook, to line up with Josh Allen throwing it to them, in any number of conceivable formations and combinations which should be theoretically impossible to defend if you have guys flying every which way and Allen knows where they're going.

I can't get cranky with the players though for running their routes, though it would be good if they remembered how to catch catchable balls that were where they were supposed to be. It just looks disoriented since the bye.

[kgun12]

WYS thinking...without Allen the Bills are 30th in rushing yards per game.

And without wings, birds don’t fly. There is no asterisk as to why the Bills are the only team. Singletary doesn’t have any 100 yard games because they don’t give him the ball enough.

[mightysimi]

I think more of this is on Allen for going elsewhere. I heard on a podcast this morning that Knox only blocks on 8% of passing plays so he is running routes. Unless a guy that fast and big isn't getting open, there is a bunch on Allen for prioritizing other receivers.

[kingJofNYC]

Fans want All Stars everywhere. Lets take Friermuth, you like him over Knox, why? The guy has well over double the targets, does not have double the yards over Knox, and has 1 TD He's constantly targeted, Knox is not. Knox is probably overpaid, but Cookie has the right of it, just not enough to go around for everyone. I do think we do a poor job getting the TE involved sometimes.

[OpIv37]

Fans want All Stars everywhere. Lets take Friermuth, you like him over Knox, why? The guy has well over double the targets, does not have double the yards over Knox, and has 1 TD He's constantly targeted, Knox is not. Knox is probably overpaid, but Cookie has the right of it, just not enough to go around for everyone. I do think we do a poor job getting the TE involved sometimes.

I'm all over the place on this one.

A top TE just makes an offense so much more potent. Just look at what Gronk and all the other NE TE's did to us during the Brady years. Look what Kelce does now. Imagine if Allen had a target like that.

But, at any given time, there are only 3-4 guys like that in the league, and Knox is closer to being that dominant guy than anyone we've had since the 90's. It would be nice to have a truly dominant TE, but I think it would be really hard to find someone better than Knox and really easy to end up with someone who isn't as good.

[Cali512]

Biggest issue with knox imo, is hes not a TE

Yes he blocks, runs routes, and can make difficult catches. But in his career, hes only been able to get yds on the outside or in the slot. When in line, he never gets open. He doesnt find soft spots, or has a good instinct of how to get open quickly

He is technically a TE, but hes not capable of running routes in the typical TE way and hes not a target in the redzone. This has been his whole career, so i cant blame Dorsey. But once again, it's amplified by not having a Beasely type who can control the middle zone of the defense and get Lbs to keep shallow and allowing knox to get behind them

[Oaf]

Fans want All Stars everywhere. Lets take Friermuth, you like him over Knox, why? The guy has well over double the targets, does not have double the yards over Knox, and has 1 TD He's constantly targeted, Knox is not. Knox is probably overpaid, but Cookie has the right of it, just not enough to go around for everyone. I do think we do a poor job getting the TE involved sometimes.



When you say "well over double the targets" did you mean "well under double"? :ill:


<thead class="Table__header-group Table__THEAD">
REC
TGTS
YDS
AVG
TD
LNG

</thead>

33 43 327 9.9 2 23 (Knox)

50 76 597 11.9 1 57 (Frier)


I don't need an all-star TE (though I'd love one). Knox is JAG. Pay JAGs like JAGs so we can retain other players, like Poyer, who's not JAG.