McDermott : Bills need to be less one dimensional.

[Mace]

"It can't be a one-man show. I don't think it's a one-man show. but there definitely needs to be more consistency from the other positions and putting them in position, as well," said McDermott following Sunday's loss. "That starts with me. We need to put them in a position to be successful."



https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/mcdermott-bills-needs-to-be-less-one-dimensional


Ok.

[Bill Cody]

It can't be but....it is

[Bill Cody]

What would the game plan look like if Case Keenum was QB? Would Motor be getting 8 carries like he did yesterday? Would they have some lower stress throws? Of course. So use that game plan and take some heat off Josh, the OL, the receivers, the coaches....

[Forward_Lateral]

Why did you abandon the run then?

[TacklingDummy]

Davis has been put in position many times. He's failed miserably at crucial times.

[kingJofNYC]

We’re getting nothing out of the slot position. Davis has been a dog the last two weeks, but slot is almost non existent, same with TE. Some of that is due to moving Diggs around and making him the slot guy, motioning him open against lbers, but outside of Shakir against the Steelers we haven’t had any production from slot. That’s a big change from previous seasons and I’m not sure if it’s by design. We always complain about them abandoning the run, so I’m not going to touch that, we all know they hate running.

[notacon]

That means he is not pleased with Dorsey’s play calling and the Bills will stick with the run this week more than in the past.

It will help if Spencer Brown is back on the field. Quessenberry has shown why he is not starting caliber.

[sukie]

What would the game plan look like if Case Keenum was QB? Would Motor be getting 8 carries like he did yesterday? Would they have some lower stress throws? Of course. So use that game plan and take some heat off Josh, the OL, the receivers, the coaches....
Wouldn’t be launching 30 yard bombs on 3rd and 9.

[Turf]

Maybe Dorsey will actually have to make a game plan.

[YardRat]

What would the game plan look like if Case Keenum was QB? Would Motor be getting 8 carries like he did yesterday? Would they have some lower stress throws? Of course. So use that game plan and take some heat off Josh, the OL, the receivers, the coaches....

Let's hope we never find out.

[sahlensguy]

Well McD didn't completely throw them all under the bus this time...so there's that.

[DraftBoy]

Maybe Dorsey will actually have to make a game plan.

I don’t think the issue is on Dorsey for this one. He’s calling a wide variety of passing concepts, though I wish he would stick with the run a little more. Josh appears to be locking on to guys right now, and he both knows better and is better than that.

[swiper]

It can't be but....it is

It was for the Jet game. I wonder how much of this is Ken Dorsey.

They need to dump Quessenbery and get Spencer Brown back. Quessenbery isn't good.

- - - Updated - - -


I don’t think the issue is on Dorsey for this one. He’s calling a wide variety of passing concepts, though I wish he would stick with the run a little more. Josh appears to be locking on to guys right now, and he both knows better and is better than that.

He abandons the run every time the RBs prove to suck. Which is almost every game.

[Mace]

That means he is not pleased with Dorsey’s play calling and the Bills will stick with the run this week more than in the past.

It will help if Spencer Brown is back on the field. Quessenberry has shown why he is not starting caliber.

McDermott is a manager HC, it's not like he doesn't tell Dorsey what to do, oblivious to what's going on. Brown is clearly fragile and not an answer, and the staff can see better than I do. Bates should have stayed at LG where they were successful at the end of last year, they should have picked up an RG or stuck Saffold there, and they should have figured they might have injury issues with Brown if they were focused on championship past "Yay, go !!!"

The HC directs the game plan.

[Mad Max]

McDermott is a manager HC, it's not like he doesn't tell Dorsey what to do, oblivious to what's going on. Brown is clearly fragile and not an answer, and the staff can see better than I do. Bates should have stayed at LG where they were successful at the end of last year, they should have picked up an RG or stuck Saffold there, and they should have figured they might have injury issues with Brown if they were focused on championship past "Yay, go !!!"

The HC directs the game plan.
This OL always feels like square pegs in round holes to me.
Bates cruising at left guard, let’s switch him to the right??? Let’s get another Panthers reject for LG, Spencer is fragile and not sure how good he is when not broken (he’s got the prototype body…I REALLY wanted him to be the answer). I like Dion but have always felt he would dominate at guard. Morse is ok but one dimensional. Plenty of room for improvement on this unit.

[Woodman]

This OL always feels like square pegs in round holes to me.
Bates cruising at left guard, let’s switch him to the right???


The OL has never run like a well oiled machine as promised with this new coach.

I've been saying the same thing put Bates back where he excelled.

McDermott has to take the bull by the horns and strongly suggest it to his OL coach guru.

I use the term guru very lightly.

I believed he's failed on the evaluation process this time.

[Mad Max]

The OL has never run like a well oiled machine as promised with this new coach.

I've been saying the same thing put Bates back where he excelled.

McDermott has to take the bull by the horns and strongly suggest it to his OL coach guru.

I use the term guru very lightly.

I believed he's failed on the evaluation process this time.

Hopefully McBeane now understand the assignment…protect the franchise (JA) at all costs. An OL that can get some decent push in the run game would take so much pressure and at least a little bit of the pass rush heat off of Josh.

[Woodman]

Hopefully McBeane now understand the assignment…protect the franchise (JA) at all costs. An OL that can get some decent push in the run game would take so much pressure and at least a little bit of the pass rush heat off of Josh.

:10: :10:


1,000% correct!

[notacon]

McDermott is a manager HC, it's not like he doesn't tell Dorsey what to do, oblivious to what's going on. Brown is clearly fragile and not an answer, and the staff can see better than I do. Bates should have stayed at LG where they were successful at the end of last year, they should have picked up an RG or stuck Saffold there, and they should have figured they might have injury issues with Brown if they were focused on championship past "Yay, go !!!"

The HC directs the game plan.
Maybe, maybe not.

When one is a "manager HC", that means he gives responsibility and authority to his underlings. Then, reflection and accountability

I was a manager for the majority of my career. This is management 101.

The truth is that we have no idea what goes on between the HC and the OC and DC. It’s all speculation.

[Mace]

Maybe, maybe not.

When one is a "manager HC", that means he gives responsibility and authority to his underlings. Then, reflection and accountability

I was a manager for the majority of my career. This is management 101.

The truth is that we have no idea what goes on between the HC and the OC and DC. It’s all speculation.

I was a manager too, and consistently evaluated as a very good one, so I have a pretty good grasp of it, but thanks for your cliff notes summary.

The HC directs the game plans, leads meetings, makes the final decisions. Kind of bizarre to think any HC would just leave his coordinators on their own to do what they feel like doing, even more so with a 1st year OC in charge of the franchise jewel. So imho, it's exclusively your speculation and nebulous.

[Mace]

This OL always feels like square pegs in round holes to me.
Bates cruising at left guard, let’s switch him to the right??? Let’s get another Panthers reject for LG, Spencer is fragile and not sure how good he is when not broken (he’s got the prototype body…I REALLY wanted him to be the answer). I like Dion but have always felt he would dominate at guard. Morse is ok but one dimensional. Plenty of room for improvement on this unit.

Absolutely agree. I mean it looked to me that the OL hit it's stride at the end of last season with Bates next to Dawkins. They kept running that way because those guys were opening holes.

[Typ0]

I was a manager too, and consistently evaluated as a very good one, so I have a pretty good grasp of it, but thanks for your cliff notes summary.

The HC directs the game plans, leads meetings, makes the final decisions. Kind of bizarre to think any HC would just leave his coordinators on their own to do what they feel like doing, even more so with a 1st year OC in charge of the franchise jewel. So imho, it's exclusively your speculation and nebulous.

You start to get into discussing different management styles all of which are proven successful. I think we see evidence McDermott's management style is more hands off. He wants to motivate from the ground up and then see's what comes out. We have seen a lot of different outcomes from that. There have been some over-achieving teams and some under-achieving teams. Perhaps this has played a role in gameday things as well hmmmm. I would think McDermott is reflecting and listening and learning along the way as well -- that is the mentality he is trying to drive forward.

I would imagine he is at a more involved stage now ... but how more involved plays out kinda depends on how he see's it. At some point in his growth he's going to have to take a long hard look at the marriage between his management style and his responsibility to have his hands on in the right places. Democracy can work great and it can be a cluster-**** too. We need the great part not the cluster-****. That's the mixture McDermott needs to put together to move the next level of head coach. Not just talking about he wins the big game who hoo talking about McDermott having the McDermott model that works successfully in different environments with different squads. I just think the coaches management style has led to some outcomes where the coach has really blown it. Even in the big picture our team is very talented but doesn't look very capable without super human production coming out of the QB position. This is not sustainable. You aren't going to require Josh Allen to be a super human every week to win and continue winning. But then they have a challenge with this huge asset you risk limiting your return from so they have to build the whole thing around him!

Adversity sucks.

[BillsFanInMass]

I feel like the offense was alot better when we had Beasley I know he isn't as fast at mckenzie but he knew the value of securing the catch. He always knew the soft spots in the zone. Mckenzie seems like he is trying for big runs after catch plays and not sitting down in the soft spot. Working about where the defenders are before securing the catch.

[Woodman]

I feel like the offense was a lot better when we had Beasley I know he isn't as fast at McKenzie but he knew the value of securing the catch. He always knew the soft spots in the zone. McKenzie seems like he is trying for big runs after catch plays and not sitting down in the soft spot. Working about where the defenders are before securing the catch.

:10: Thinking the same thing last night.

WE MISS BEASLEY and I thought I'd never say that.

He was absolutely clutch!

[Typ0]

We got rid of Beasley to go after the YAC. Allen is working on the YAC. You can't have it both ways we don't want the guy sitting down in the zone we want the guy who can open up the offense by expanding the scope of how he threatens the defense. Plus, Beasley is an ass.

[Woodman]

We got rid of Beasley to go after the YAC. Allen is working on the YAC. You can't have it both ways we don't want the guy sitting down in the zone we want the guy who can open up the offense by expanding the scope of how he threatens the defense. Plus, Beasley is an ass.
I want somebody that keeps the chains moving.

[Mace]

You start to get into discussing different management styles all of which are proven successful. I think we see evidence McDermott's management style is more hands off. He wants to motivate from the ground up and then see's what comes out. We have seen a lot of different outcomes from that. There have been some over-achieving teams and some under-achieving teams. Perhaps this has played a role in gameday things as well hmmmm. I would think McDermott is reflecting and listening and learning along the way as well -- that is the mentality he is trying to drive forward.

I would imagine he is at a more involved stage now ... but how more involved plays out kinda depends on how he see's it. At some point in his growth he's going to have to take a long hard look at the marriage between his management style and his responsibility to have his hands on in the right places. Democracy can work great and it can be a cluster-**** too. We need the great part not the cluster-****. That's the mixture McDermott needs to put together to move the next level of head coach. Not just talking about he wins the big game who hoo talking about McDermott having the McDermott model that works successfully in different environments with different squads. I just think the coaches management style has led to some outcomes where the coach has really blown it. Even in the big picture our team is very talented but doesn't look very capable without super human production coming out of the QB position. This is not sustainable. You aren't going to require Josh Allen to be a super human every week to win and continue winning. But then they have a challenge with this huge asset you risk limiting your return from so they have to build the whole thing around him!

Adversity sucks.

It's the 6th year of the program and Beane has stacked his roster with talent despite injuries. The nuts and bolts and strategy, dynamic adjustment and flexible thinking just isn't happening.

I don't know how this works out, but McDermott needs to step up. Coaching philosophies get stale, a great long term coach will evolve. It's the 6th year of the program.

I'm not saying fire him, but he needs a nudge to get past his clenched comfort zone. The Bills came out roaring, then tightened up week by week, that's not any different from the previous patches of mellow. I just think that's McDermott being a basic motivational coach with a loaded roster he can't figure out how to use in his role as HC.

[notacon]

I was a manager too, and consistently evaluated as a very good one, so I have a pretty good grasp of it, but thanks for your cliff notes summary.

The HC directs the game plans, leads meetings, makes the final decisions. Kind of bizarre to think any HC would just leave his coordinators on their own to do what they feel like doing, even more so with a 1st year OC in charge of the franchise jewel. So imho, it's exclusively your speculation and nebulous.
Like Typ0 said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/261604-McDermott-Bills-need-to-be-less-one-dimensional?p=4974412&viewfull=1#post4974412), there are different management styles, and it appears that McDermott's is more “hands off” than micromanager.

I suspect that McDermott provides much less direct interference in what a OC or DC game plans than you think. You might be correct, but you can just as easily be wrong. It is probably somewhere between the two extremes.

What my experience tells me, and with the common sense reality that OC and DC have very strong personalities, and ideas on how to run their systems....and management styles of their own, meddling too much (or too little) is a delicate balance.

What also leads me to believe that McDermott is more “hands off” than “hands on" is organizations take the lead and reflect ownership and ownership style.

We cannot be sure of exactly what goes on between HC, OC, DC and all the positions coaches, but, we do have an insight, form someone that was in the room, about Pegula’s ownership style.

This subject came up today in an article by Tyler Dunne about Jim Irsay’s really strange decisions regarding his new HC....the totally unqualified and unprepared Jeff Saturday.

He wrote that (https://www.golongtd.com/p/when-going-rogue-goes-wrong-very?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=222258&post_id=83387461&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email) “The owners genuinely interested in winning are masterful at accomplishing three objects:

1. They are willing to spend.

2. They hire good people.

3. They stay the hell out of the way.

He then mentions (as a comparison of “masterful” ownership, to Jim Irsay’s debacle), by bringing up Pegula’s decision to let McDermott (and later Beane in future drafts) do their jobs, without interference, when the 2017 trade was done that allowed KC to draft Mahomes.



As we’ve brought up numerous times, yes, Terry Pegula loved Patrick Mahomes (https://www.golongtd.com/p/part-i-the-pressure-is-on-josh-allen) before anyone in the sport yet chose not to inject himself into what Sean McDermott was trying to build. Surely, it was difficult for the Buffalo Bills owner to watch Mahomes take a lighter to the NFL record books but his discipline paid off. The franchise simply selected Josh Allen the following spring and a tone was set.

<o:p></o:p>
He let the people he hired do their thing. Now, Brandon Beane is one of the best GMs in football.<o:p></o:p>



The link with the quote above (loved Patrick Mahomes (https://www.golongtd.com/p/part-i-the-pressure-is-on-josh-allen)) tells the inside story from Jim Monos, who worked as GM Doug Whaley right hand man as the Bills director of player personnel (until after the 2017 draft and Beene was hired) about the decision process to trade the pick used to get Mahomes.

Basically, Terry Pegula LOVED Patrick Mahomes. He’s all he could talk about. Constantly. Again, and again, and again. Mr. Pegula wanted Mahomes so bad he could taste it.

YET, he left McDermott do his job and fulfill HIS vision of the team and how McDERMOTT wanted to set the tone.

That style permeates through an organization.

That is why I believe that McDermott has a “hand off” management style.

[Typ0]

I want somebody that keeps the chains moving.

The team needs a receiving threat out of the backfield and a running attack other than Josh Allen. Their inability to make this happen keeps catching up to them.

[Typ0]

The motivator is going to do pretty well with squads that need motivation.

Our team has some very competent highly focused leadership in the locker room. These guys don't need motivation.

[Mace]

Like Typ0 said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/261604-McDermott-Bills-need-to-be-less-one-dimensional?p=4974412&viewfull=1#post4974412), there are different management styles, and it appears that McDermott's is more “hands off” than micromanager.

I suspect that McDermott provides much less direct interference in what a OC or DC game plans than you think. You might be correct, but you can just as easily be wrong. It is probably somewhere between the two extremes.

What my experience tells me, and with the common sense reality that OC and DC have very strong personalities, and ideas on how to run their systems....and management styles of their own, meddling too much (or too little) is a delicate balance.

What also leads me to believe that McDermott is more “hands off” than “hands on" is organizations take the lead and reflect ownership and ownership style.

We cannot be sure of exactly what goes on between HC, OC, DC and all the positions coaches, but, we do have an insight, form someone that was in the room, about Pegula’s ownership style.

This subject came up today in an article by Tyler Dunne about Jim Irsay’s really strange decisions regarding his new HC....the totally unqualified and unprepared Jeff Saturday.

He wrote that (https://www.golongtd.com/p/when-going-rogue-goes-wrong-very?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=222258&post_id=83387461&isFreemail=false&utm_medium=email) “The owners genuinely interested in winning are masterful at accomplishing three objects:

1. They are willing to spend.

2. They hire good people.

3. They stay the hell out of the way.

He then mentions (as a comparison of “masterful” ownership, to Jim Irsay’s debacle), by bringing up Pegula’s decision to let McDermott (and later Beane in future drafts) do their jobs, without interference, when the 2017 trade was done that allowed KC to draft Mahomes.




The link with the quote above (loved Patrick Mahomes (https://www.golongtd.com/p/part-i-the-pressure-is-on-josh-allen)) tells the inside story from Jim Monos, who worked as GM Doug Whaley right hand man as the Bills director of player personnel (until after the 2017 draft and Beene was hired) about the decision process to trade the pick used to get Mahomes.

Basically, Terry Pegula LOVED Patrick Mahomes. He’s all he could talk about. Constantly. Again, and again, and again. Mr. Pegula wanted Mahomes so bad he could taste it.

YET, he left McDermott do his job and fulfill HIS vision of the team and how McDERMOTT wanted to set the tone.

That style permeates through an organization.

That is why I believe that McDermott has a “hand off” management style.

I don't see how I might be wrong, because you're essentially saying McDermott might be oblivious to what happens on game day, because other people are doing their stuff, and "ok !". This is clearly not McDermott who runs the meetings, and establishes the path unless he has no spine whatever as an HC, and I've seen no reason to think McDermott is not the guiding hand of the team they put on the field.

I find the idea that first year OC has a stronger personality than his boss, who adheres to it to be ridiculous. If you do in fact, have any successful management experience, you'll know the manager does not just sit in his chair and say ok, and he can react with dynamic thinking to others with contrary thoughts about direction instead of maintaining a narrow focus on what relative experts tell him.

[Woodman]

The team needs a receiving threat out of the backfield and a running attack other than Josh Allen. Their inability to make this happen keeps catching up to them.


Could not agree more.

[notacon]

I don't see how I might be wrong, because you're essentially saying McDermott might be oblivious to what happens on game day, because other people are doing their stuff, and "ok !". This is clearly not McDermott who runs the meetings, and establishes the path unless he has no spine whatever as an HC, and I've seen no reason to think McDermott is not the guiding hand of the team they put on the field.

I find the idea that first year OC has a stronger personality than his boss, who adheres to it to be ridiculous. If you do in fact, have any successful management experience, you'll know the manager does not just sit in his chair and say ok, and he can react with dynamic thinking to others with contrary thoughts about direction instead of maintaining a narrow focus on what relative experts tell him.

Well, I don’t see how you can’t be wrong.


And you are misrepresenting what I actually wrote.

I did NOT say that "McDermott might be oblivious to what happens on game day, because other people are doing their stuff, and "ok !”"

My premise is that the OC runs the offense, with some input from the HC but not nearly as much as you think.

It’s irrelevant that Dorsey is a “first year OC” because he has been with the Bills since 2019, and he worked more closely with Daboll than McDermott probably would.

I did not say that "that first year OC has a stronger personality than his boss, who adheres to it” and it is not “ridiculous” to say that an OC has a “strong personality”. Your (second) misrepresentation of what I wrote shows how weak you argument is.



I did NOT say (the third misrepresentation of what I wrote) that "does not just sit in his chair and say ok,....etc....”. What I DID say was that good managers "gives responsibility and authority to his underlings. Then, reflection and accountability’


Seems like you are throwing up several straw man misrepresentations of what I did NOT write, instead of what I actually wrote.

[Night Train]

Why did you abandon the run then?

Because the OL can pass block and gets little to no push in the running game. It's how they built the OL, pro or con.


Complete opposite of the Rex, McCoy days where the Bill led the league in rushing... while going 8-8 both years.

[Mace]

Because the OL can pass block and gets little to no push in the running game. It's how they built the OL, pro or con.


Complete opposite of the Rex, McCoy days where the Bill led the league in rushing... while going 8-8 both years.

That's kind of the default consensus. At the end of last year though they were opening holes and supporting the run game just fine with Bates at LG and Daryl Williams at RG. There's no way to tell if that would have carried over, but it was a better more flexible, versatile line not just meant for pass protection.

[Mace]

Well, I don’t see how you can’t be wrong.


And you are misrepresenting what I actually wrote.

I did NOT say that "McDermott might be oblivious to what happens on game day, because other people are doing their stuff, and "ok !”"

My premise is that the OC runs the offense, with some input from the HC but not nearly as much as you think.

It’s irrelevant that Dorsey is a “first year OC” because he has been with the Bills since 2019, and he worked more closely with Daboll than McDermott probably would.

I did not say that "that first year OC has a stronger personality than his boss, who adheres to it” and it is not “ridiculous” to say that an OC has a “strong personality”. Your (second) misrepresentation of what I wrote shows how weak you argument is.



I did NOT say (the third misrepresentation of what I wrote) that "does not just sit in his chair and say ok,....etc....”. What I DID say was that good managers "gives responsibility and authority to his underlings. Then, reflection and accountability’


Seems like you are throwing up several straw man misrepresentations of what I did NOT write, instead of what I actually wrote.



Like I said, I entirely disagree with you.

A basic thing is that you mention Dorsey has been with the Bills since 2019, and it's irrelevant that he's a first year OC, actually calling plays and devising a game plan. It's anything but irrelevant and actually quite significant if you pay attention to the sport.

My premise is that the HC actually guides the team, directing the meetings and gameplan, and the OC actually reports to his boss to make it so.

There's absolutely nothing illogical in it, besides your theory it all must be a magical process we cannot understand or know about because we don't have a chair in the room or Joe B. hasn't said anything about it.

I still find it ridiculous to think McDermott doesn't tell Dorsey what he wants from a game. It's absurd.

[notacon]

Like I said, I entirely disagree with you.

A basic thing is that you mention Dorsey has been with the Bills since 2019, and it's irrelevant that he's a first year OC, actually calling plays and devising a game plan. It's anything but irrelevant and actually quite significant if you pay attention to the sport.

My premise is that the HC actually guides the team, directing the meetings and gameplan, and the OC actually reports to his boss to make it so.

There's absolutely nothing illogical in it, besides your theory it all must be a magical process we cannot understand or know about because we don't have a chair in the room or Joe B. hasn't said anything about it.

I still find it ridiculous to think McDermott doesn't tell Dorsey what he wants from a game. It's absurd.
And like I said, I mostly disagrees with you. We can agree to disagree.

BTW....I did not say that "McDermott doesn't tell Dorsey what he wants from a game.”.....your constant misrepresentation of what I actually write makes discussing anything with you impossible.

And it shows how weak your argument is because you are debating stuff that you have conjured up, and NOT what I wrote.

[The last buffalo fan]

I want somebody that keeps the chains moving.

Same here, big time plays, big time scoring plays, those are fabulous and great, I love them! But damn, lately we have been always looking for that big play instead of just moving the chains, wearing down their D and keeping ours fresh. One too dimensional.

[Woodman]

Same here, big time plays, big time scoring plays, those are fabulous and great, I love them! But damn, lately we have been always looking for that big play instead of just moving the chains, wearing down their D and keeping ours fresh. One too dimensional.

:10: :cheers:

[notacon]

This is an amazing rant by Joe Thomas, ex-NFL star, about what NFL coaches have to go through, and how much they sacrifice their lives to do the job.

More than one poster should keep this in mind when they go thoughtlessly crapping on any NFL coach.



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