The Bills Have a QB Problem

[notacon]

Josh Allen is THE reason the Bills are considered a legitimate Super Bowl contender, and Josh Allen will be THE reason they don’t even get there, much less win it.

Yes, we all love Josh. He is an unicorn of QB’s and has all the traits we Bills fans have been begging for for decades.

Yes, his amazing performances have titillated the whole football ball world (even in defeat) and has won so many games by his awesomeness.

But, he is THE cause for the Bills three loses this year. You can try and blame other players….the coaches….the play calling….even the massive amount of injuries.

But none of those come close to the damage Josh Allen has done, almost single handedly to prevent what should be a 9-0 record.

Miami game, he inexplicably threw a one hop pass on 4th down and goal at the Fins’ 2 yard line. A sure go ahead TD.

Against Green Bay, he tried his best to hand the game to the Packers with two boneheaded INT’s. The second one was inexcusable, 3rd and goal at GB 3 yard line that would have given the Bills a 34-10 lead. Instead, it breathed some life into the dormant Packers. Thankfully, the inept Packers just were too stinky to take advantage of Josh massive mistakes.

The Jets game, he correctly said that he “..played like ****”.

First INT in the red zone, and prevented the Bills from jumping to an early lead. The next drive, instead of being up 7-0 could have been 14-0.

His second INT handed the ball to the Jets at the Bills 19 yard line that even one of the worst QB’s in the league, Zach Wilson, took advantage of to take the lead for good.


The Minny game, the loss was almost ALL on Josh. THREE ****ING TURNOVERS in the second half.

TWO TERRIBLE INT’s, not only in the Red zone, but IN the Vikings END ZONE. Both of them inexcusable for a QB who is supposed to be one of the best in the NFL.

Earlier this year, a thread was started….

Mahomes has the easiest job in NFL history, and Allen’s still better (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/259598-Mahomes-has-the-easiest-job-in-NFL-history-and-Allen-s-still-better)……which was filled of hubris and nonsense (unfortunately all the posts were lost) with the thread starter flatly stating that (paraphrasing)….

‘Josh Allen is better than Mahomes and it’s not even close’

After too many idiots saying that Mahomes would regress after losing Tyreek Hill, what has REALLY happened is that Mahomes has shown WHY he is considered the best QB in the NFL, and with Allen’s recent regression to his rookie year mistakes, the reverse is true.

Mahomes is the best QB in the league over Allen, and it’s not even close.

Yes, the amazing GOOD of Allen and his playing style inevitably produces some of the worst boneheaded dumb plays.

Can he overcome his penchant for INT’s at the WORST possible time??? Can he come back from the QB with the MOST INTS’s in the NFL….and worse yet, the MOST Red Zone INTS’s???

No one has any idea. I certainly hope so.

This Bills team is one of the best in the NFL. The defense, despite the massive amount of injuries STILL is #2 in points allowed, only two tenths of a point behind the leader….16.8 PTS/G vs 16.6.

That is a championship level defense, and when Josh is not making HUGE mistakes, a championship offence.

Right now, the biggest obstacle to the Bills being the outright best team in the NFL in both performance and record, is JOSH ALLEN.

I have always been an extreme optimist for the Bills….and I still am when I predict they will go on a six-game winning streak and go into Cincy in week #17 with a 12-3 record.

But, so sad to say, the reality is that THE reason that may not happen is Josh Allen and that needs to be said.

[sukie]

But no, in your own words, critique of the other number 1 pick that year?

[notacon]

But no, in your own words, critique of the other number 1 pick that year?
I have no idea what lame point you are trying to make. This is about Josh Allen’s play right now. You want to troll, go somewhere else to lay down your poop.

[Forward_Lateral]

He's the reason they are 6-3.

He's the reason for 6 wins

He's the reason for 3 losses (I could argue he wasn't the reason for the Miami loss, but I digresss)

This team, like all superbowl "contenders" live and die with their QB. Let's hope that he and Dorsey can figure it out.

[Woodman]

No it's the fans fault :lol:

[Woodman]

I have no idea what lame point you are trying to make. This is about Josh Allen’s play right now. You want to troll, go somewhere else to lay down your poop.
I thought you were gonna say pipe. :lol:

[Bill Cody]

Josh is still maturing as a QB. This is a bad patch for him. I expect him to learn from this. Same with Dorsey.

[OpIv37]

So what are you suggesting? That we bench Allen?

[sukie]

(Awaiting Joe B’s paywalled remedy suggestion)

[notacon]

I did not see this post before I started this thread, but it meshes pretty well the subject at hand.....



Yeah, I cringe about myself, but I can't help it.

I was as high on Allen after the KC game last playoffs as I have ever been on anybody. I've said several times I think Josh walked off the field that day knowing he was one of, if not the, best players in the league. I thought that epiphany would elevate his game even more and he would become the complete juggernaut that he is capable of being. And he started out the season that way, which was satisfying.

But, yet again, that Bad Josh hero-ball and bad decision making that I thought would become a real rarity has reared it's head again, for multiple games in a row again. And that's troubling. It's a lesson he hasn't seemed to learn yet, despite numerous opportunities.

He will probably still have a HOF career and rack up stats, like a Dan Marino. And end up being maybe the best QB the Bills have ever had, like a Jim Kelly. But I don't want another Dan Marino and I don't want another Jim Kelly. I want a winner...a champion...and Josh is certainly capable of it, but only if can get past losing his **** every year for stretches and he hasn't overcome that yet.

Yardie is showing his age with the Dan Marino comparison. And I’m not sure if it’s appropriate. Yes, Marino was a prolific passer, a dinosaur from the age of pure pocket passers like statues in the pocket....and had great stats....but overall, regular season W-L records that were very disappointing.

Marono did play on one SB, and lost. But his record is pretty pathetic, making the conference playoffs the year after the SB loss (and losing), and then missing the playoffs altogether the following four years. He really never sniffed the SB after 1985.

A more fearful comparison (certainly in the modern 21st century game) is Aaron Rodgers. Yes, he did win one Super Bowl, in his third year after taking over from Farve.

But after that, despite expecting to at least get back to the big game, he failed repeatedly in the layoffs. Time and time and time again. LOTS of regular season wins...all for naught when the payoffs came along.


NINE times after the SB win to be exact. And the last few were really painful to watch. He has not made the SB in twelve years.

Like all Bills fans we ALL "I want a winner...a champion...and Josh is certainly capable of it, but only if can get past losing his **** every year for stretches and he hasn't overcome that yet.”

The next few games are going to be key. The next two we really don’t need Josh taking over a game with amazing plays.

We need him to take what the defense gives them, methodically dismantle poor oppositions, and don’t make any boneheaded plays.

I believe he can and will. It remains to be seen if HE thinks so and performs to the level that shows he can.

[Woodman]

Josh is still maturing as a QB. This is a bad patch for him. I expect him to learn from this. Same with Dorsey.

Learn or forever lose.

[Woodman]

So what are you suggesting? That we bench Allen?

I say bench the mothers it's always their fault anyway.

Birdcage reference but he said kill them.

~ Nathan Lane

[notacon]

So what are you suggesting? That we bench Allen?

Of course not. I am not suggesting any solution.

It’s not like every teammate, every coach and Josh himself do not see and recognize what is going on.

JOSH is the only one who can pull himself out of this funk. Maybe he needs a sports shrink like Dr. Sharon Fieldstone from Ted Lasso.

[notacon]

(Awaiting Joe B’s paywalled remedy suggestion)

If all you are going to do is troll with stupid posts instead of even a shred of substance, take it somewhere else.

[Woodman]

Of course not. I am not suggesting any solution.

It’s not like every teammate, every coach and Josh himself do not see and recognize what is going on.

JOSH is the only one who can pull himself out of this funk. Maybe he needs a sports shrink like Dr. Sharon Fieldstone from Ted Lasso.
Maybe he just needs to get _ _ _ _.

[Woodman]

take it somewhere else.

This is so convenient though.

:gobills:


This thread is going to be a monster of intelligent exchange.

[sukie]

I don’t believe we have a QB problem. LB is a bigger concern going forward. Safety is a concern going forward. WR is a bigger problem. if Allen is a problem Orta a problem 26 or do teams would love to have.

[Bill Cody]

Josh may actually miss Daboll. Daboll is a very experienced guy who has seen a lot and he's kind of a relaxed guy. Dorsey always seems like he's on his 3rd red bull. Josh is not a guy that needs to be amped up. He's already amped.

[sahlensguy]

Josh is still maturing as a QB. This is a bad patch for him. I expect him to learn from this. Same with Dorsey.

So we're wasting a loaded team on a 1st year coordinator. This move made little sense to begin with.

[notacon]

Josh is still maturing as a QB. This is a bad patch for him. I expect him to learn from this. Same with Dorsey.

I do too. NFL stand for Not For Long.

The silly mistaken assumption some make is that players and coaches do not learn from their mistakes and will not grow and get better.

The problem is that THIS year, the SB window is wide open. Changes are coming next year (and beyond) because of Josh's cap hit. I have trust in Beane to handle these issues and stay very competitive. Certainly not the **** that LA Rams put themselves in, sacrificing their future for one title. They appear to be on the cusp pf several years of crappiness.

The fear is that his maturing may come too late for THIS year. The Bills need to at the very least, get to the SB, and win it to put those nasty decades of failure behind the franchise.

ASAP!!!

We will see this week how he bounces back. NO INT’S will be the goal. Win the ****ing game!!!

[Woodman]

Josh may actually miss Daboll. Daboll is a very experienced guy who has seen a lot and he's kind of a relaxed guy. Dorsey always seems like he's on his 3rd red bull. Josh is not a guy that needs to be amped up. He's already amped.

He should be relaxed he grew up in West Seneca ..... go ahead.

Guess who else grew up in West Seneca? :D

[sahlensguy]

Josh may actually miss Daboll. Daboll is a very experienced guy who has seen a lot and he's kind of a relaxed guy. Dorsey always seems like he's on his 3rd red bull. Josh is not a guy that needs to be amped up. He's already amped.

It's obvious that Dorsey is in over his head. He has no business maturing with an all time talented qb.

[Woodman]

I do too. NFL stand for Not For Long.


Or the NFL = tHE nO fUN lEAGUE.

[Bill Cody]

I don’t believe we have a QB problem. LB is a bigger concern going forward. Safety is a concern going forward. WR is a bigger problem. if Allen is a problem Orta a problem 26 or do teams would love to have.

This is a super bowl team right now. But not if Josh doesn't clean up the picks. If you can't recognize this I guarantee you Josh can.

[notacon]

I think it’s lazy to blame Dorsey.

He did not make Josh throw terrible passes that we expect form a raw rookie.

The Bills have been in the position to win every one of the games they lost....the situation that you want.....ball in the offense stands, with the chance to win the game.

Josh is the one who failed. Not Dorsey. Although he does have some work to do. Remember, some posters liked to *** of Daboll too...pretty unfairly too.

[Bill Cody]

It's obvious that Dorsey is in over his head. He has no business maturing with an all time talented qb.

Coaches leave and you can't always replace them with Bill Walsh

[Woodman]

It's obvious that Dorsey is in over his head. He has no business maturing with an all time talented qb.
So far this appears to be true.
What can we do?
Right now not a damn thing comes to mind.





Continuity is far far away!

He should have been able to work Hines into something by now.

[notacon]

I don’t believe we have a QB problem. LB is a bigger concern going forward. Safety is a concern going forward. WR is a bigger problem. if Allen is a problem Orta a problem 26 or do teams would love to have.

So, you ave decided to keep on trolling. Jesus.

No sukie, the LEAST of the Bills problems are at LB. The tandem of Milano and Edmunds is one of the best if not THE best in the NFL. Wake the **** up.

WR is NOT a “concern" either. Safety is a potential concern. But it’s not what caused the three loses.

[sukie]

I think it’s lazy to blame Dorsey.

He did not make Josh throw terrible passes that we expect form a raw rookie.

The Bills have been in the position to win every one of the games they lost....the situation that you want.....ball in the offense stands, with the chance to win the game.

Josh is the one who failed. Not Dorsey. Although he does have some work to do. Remember, some posters liked to *** of Daboll too...pretty unfairly too.
If my QB is struggling to hit the endzone I definitely don’t call 2 consecutive shots of 20 yards with plenty of time and 2 timeouts. I call underneath stuff. they weren’t giving up deep stuff all game. Why the hurry? 1st and 10 from the 20… why the need for the dagger?

[Woodman]

Coaches leave and you can't always replace them with Bill Walsh

But sometimes you can replace somebody causing even bigger problems .....

and Walsh may he RIP died 15 years ago.

[sahlensguy]

Coaches leave and you can't always replace them with Bill Walsh

No one is at fault for Daboll leaving for a better position.

There is blame to go around for Mc13seconds finding an inexperienced OC because of familiarity and comfort.

[Woodman]

If my QB is struggling to hit the endzone I definitely don’t call 2 consecutive shots of 20 yards with plenty of time and 2 timeouts. I call underneath stuff. they weren’t giving up deep stuff all game. Why the hurry? 1st and 10 from the 20… why the need for the dagger?

:10: exactly there was no ***** rush dammit.

Run a damn jet sweep with Hines or McKenzie a nice change of pace and who know's they might have broke it wide open. We will only know if we try something different .... these defenses are locked into what we do right now.

Frustrating when this **** is so easy.

[notacon]

It's obvious that Dorsey is in over his head. He has no business maturing with an all time talented qb.
To say that “Dorsey is in over his head” is silly.


The Bills are the #1 offensive team measured by avg. yards gained. They are #2 in the NFL in points scored. The Bills are #1 in point differential.

That is NOT a sign of the OC being “over his head”.

Josh Allen leads the NFL in INT’s. Allen leads the NFL with INT’s in the red zone. Those have nothing to do with the OC being “over his head”.

It’s clear evidence of the QB (sometimes) “being over his head” and making stupid decisions and being reckless with the ball.

[Woodman]

No one is at fault for Daboll leaving for a better position.

There is blame to go around for Mc13seconds finding an inexperienced OC because of familiarity and comfort.

Dorsey was already right there so it made things too easy for McDermott.

Who know's maybe in 3 weeks we'll all be singing his praises :idunno:

Right now he causes angst.

[Woodman]

To say that “Dorsey is in over his head” is silly.


The Bills are the #1 offensive team measured by avg. yards gained. They are #2 in the NFL in points scored. The Bills are #1 in point differential.

That is NOT a sign of the OC being “over his head”.

Josh Allen leads the NFL in INT’s. Allen leads the NFL with INT’s in the red zone. Those have nothing to do with the OC being “over his head”.

It’s clear evidence of the QB (sometimes) “being over his head” and making stupid decisions and being reckless with the ball.
He's guilty of trying to get cute more than anything else.

His education better get up to speed quick.

Punch an opponent in the mouth when it's called for .... no cute ****.

[Bill Cody]

No one is at fault for Daboll leaving for a better position.

There is blame to go around for Mc13seconds finding an inexperienced OC because of familiarity and comfort.

Doubtful that's why he went with Dorsey. Dorsey is a smart guy. Don't be so grumpy. Better days ahead.

[Forward_Lateral]

The premise of the thread is true, but in a different way.

Bills FANS have a QB problem. We've been shellshocked by QBs who have shown promise for the past 30 years. Bledsoe looked like the second coming for the first 10 games he was here. Then he ended up stinking (for many reasons, not just him) .

Trent Edwards looked like a future all pro until Adrian Wilson scrambled his brains.

Fitzy looked like a world beater, got a nice contract, then, well, went back to being Fitzy.

Throw in a bunch of turds at QB besides those guys, and it's no wonder we panic when Josh has a couple of bad games in a row. We have been conditioned to think the absolute worst. It's instilled into ALL of us. Some fans are/were able to stifle it away, and become optimistic again, myself included, but any time there's adversity, we cannot help but think the worst. It's not our faults, it's just how we've trained ourselves to think.

[sahlensguy]

So far this appears to be true.
What can we do?
Right now not a damn thing comes to mind.





Continuity is far far away!

He should have been able to work Hines into something by now.

The bed is made for this year. We just have to hope that Josh can pull his head out of ass by himself because outside of Diggs, I don't see anyone else there to give him the help he needs.

Unless they go deep into the post season. A coaching change is absolutely needed to take Josh to the next level.

[notacon]

If my QB is struggling to hit the endzone I definitely don’t call 2 consecutive shots of 20 yards with plenty of time and 2 timeouts. I call underneath stuff. they weren’t giving up deep stuff all game. Why the hurry? 1st and 10 from the 20… why the need for the dagger?
Except you have no idea what plays were called. A QB functioning on a high level sees trouble and makes the decision to throw the “underneath stuff” when the other openings are not there or too risky.

This is a skill that Josh has not seemed to master in too any situations. It’s what cost us the Tenn game last year, and his hero ball brain farts are HIS decisions.


With a stud QB like Allen, who has shown a tremendous ability to make those passes many, many times....I don’t blame the OC for calling those plays (if he did).

I suspect that if the situations you are criticizing the play calling and not calling “underneath stuff” and that fails to produce scores, you would be whining that the OC does not go for the dagger, is too conservative and is chicken.

It smacks of hindsight garbage.

[sahlensguy]

Doubtful that's why he went with Dorsey. Dorsey is a smart guy. Don't be so grumpy. Better days ahead.

I'm not saying Dorsey is stupid. Probably far from it. But he is still learning the job. Far from the guy who who is needed right now to bring out Josh's full potential. And Josh doesn't have much more to before he is molded into who he is going to be for the rest of his career.

Dorsey got the keys to the Ferrari before he knew how to drive it. If the last few games are the indication, it is headed for a crash.

[Woodman]

The bed is made for this year. We just have to hope that Josh can pull his head out of ass by himself because outside of Diggs, I don't see anyone else there to give him the help he needs.

Unless they go deep into the post season. A coaching change is absolutely needed to take Josh to the next level.

Josh needs to trust himself and that other players deserve his confidence.

He needs to relax and we need to keep him clean.

He has to be given plays that spread the ball around.

Some great coaches from the past would script plays.

They would script them based on the opponents weaknesses we gotta do that as well.

[notacon]

The premise of the thread is true, but in a different way.

Bills FANS have a QB problem. We've been shellshocked by QBs who have shown promise for the past 30 years. Bledsoe looked like the second coming for the first 10 games he was here. Then he ended up stinking (for many reasons, not just him) .

Trent Edwards looked like a future all pro until Adrian Wilson scrambled his brains.

Fitzy looked like a world beater, got a nice contract, then, well, went back to being Fitzy.

Throw in a bunch of turds at QB besides those guys, and it's no wonder we panic when Josh has a couple of bad games in a row. We have been conditioned to think the absolute worst. It's instilled into ALL of us. Some fans are/were able to stifle it away, and become optimistic again, myself included, but any time there's adversity, we cannot help but think the worst. It's not our faults, it's just how we've trained ourselves to think.
Extremely insightful and interesting take. Well done!!!


I’ve always been the “optimist” for the Bills. Always. And I STILL am today. I predict that Josh gets his head out of his ass and starts playing up to his potential and the Bills embark on a six game win streak, and will be sitting at 12-3 before the Monday night Cincy game.

This thread was started, in some way, to refute some of the blame many of us here have brought up at the “reason” the Bills have been somewhat disappointing. I detail some of it in the thread “Now, can we PLEASE stop all the LOSER talk? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/261655-Now-can-we-PLEASE-stop-all-the-LOSER-talk-!)!” The vitriol directed at McDermott and Dorsey are particularly disturbing and I think mostly off base.

PTSD is prevalent in many Bills fans, and rightfully so.

Unfortunately, right now, Josh Allen’s reckless play is a problem. He knows it and has owned up to it. I’m sure he’ll find his way out of it.

[Bill Cody]

I'm not saying Dorsey is stupid. Probably far from it. But he is still learning the job. Far from the guy who who is needed right now to bring out Josh's full potential. And Josh doesn't have much more to before he is molded into who he is going to be for the rest of his career.

Dorsey got the keys to the Ferrari before he knew how to drive it. If the last few games are the indication, it is headed for a crash.

I think he bounces off the Jersey barrier and back on the road

[Woodman]

I think he bounces off the Jersey barrier and back on the road

:rofl: :scooter:

[Mace]

Josh Allen is still Josh Allen, he works hard, he's not complacent. I'm sure Jordan Palmer is in touch with everyone too. Allen and Dorsey were rolling early in the season, Allen the best QB in the league. He has some issues. Still think he's not 100%. There's 8 games left. Ridiculous to bail on him.

Dunno what happened at the bye, McDermott's plan for the season, or individual games. They had some head scratching games last year, Daboll was still here. Certainly think some of the playcalls have been woeful. Can be corrected with the proper focus.

Certainly think "Championship defense" is absurd at this point. No. Cousins had his first 300 yard game of the year, and we've been trampled by the 20th and 24th ranked rushing offenses the last two weeks, and we just couldn't stop them. The 32nd ranked defense in the league, the Detroit Lions, held Cousins and their rushing game to less yards and points.

Bills will be fine, it's the McDermott seasonal ripple of overthinking and choking.

[sahlensguy]

Josh needs to trust himself and that other players deserve his confidence.

He needs to relax and we need to keep him clean.

He has to be given plays that spread the ball around.

Some great coaches from the past would script plays.

They would script them based on the opponents weaknesses we gotta do that as well.

All good stuff. He needs a rock in his ear who beats that drum. Unfortunately I doubt that's McD and Dorsey is still finding himself. The good thing about Josh is how grounded his family seems to be. And that just isn't enough in this situation. I'm sure Diggs can be someone to lean on, but even a wr can only do so much.

[sahlensguy]

I think he bounces off the Jersey barrier and back on the road

Yeah, until there is a competent pilot, Josh is a bumper car.

[Woodman]

Yeah, until there is a competent pilot, Josh is a bumper car.
:plane: Always need a good co-pilot.

[Woodman]

All good stuff. He needs a rock in his ear who beats that drum. Unfortunately I doubt that's McD and Dorsey is still finding himself. The good thing about Josh is how grounded his family seems to be. And that just isn't enough in this situation. I'm sure Diggs can be someone to lean on, but even a wr can only do so much.

:cheers: Here's hoping we find the way of bringing Josh all the way up.

[notacon]

No one “bailing” On Josh.

But to blame the coaches is silly.

JOSH is throwing the ball in places he should know better NOT to.

Blaming Dorsey for not treating him like a raw rookie is just plain dumb.

Josh has shown himself capable to be the BEST player and QB in the NFL.


He's just is not doing so right now. Hence the undeniable fact that the Bills have a QB problem. Not forever. Probably not even again this season. But to deny that he is the problem is fooling oneself.....trying to make excuses for him by blaming the HC or OC or the LB’s or WR or Safeties is just plain silly.


The analogy that "Dorsey got the keys to the Ferrari before he knew how to drive it” is really dumb.

The direct driver of the Ferrari, Josh Allen, and is doing so directly into walls (or more realistically, directly into other cars, throwing terrible INTS DIRECTLY TO THEM) and should be cited for reckless driving.

[sahlensguy]

No one “bailing” On Josh.

But to blame the coaches is silly.

JOSH is throwing the ball in places he should know better NOT to.

Blaming Dorsey for not treating him like a raw rookie is just plain dumb.

Josh has shown himself capable to be the BEST player and QB in the NFL.


He's just is not doing so right now. Hence the undeniable fact that the Bills have a QB problem. Not forever. Probably not even again this season. But to deny that he is the problem is fooling oneself.....trying to make excuses for him by blaming the HC or OC or the LB’s or WR or Safeties is just plain silly.


The analogy that "Dorsey got the keys to the Ferrari before he knew how to drive it” is really dumb.

The direct driver of the Ferrari, Josh Allen, and is doing so directly into walls (or more realistically, directly into other cars, throwing terrible INTS DIRECTLY TO THEM) and should be cited for reckless driving.

No one has the cred to cite him though. That is the issue.

[Mace]

To blame the coaches isn't silly, this is the 6th year of a program getting progressively more talented because of the GM, but the results remain similar. That's not singularly on a player, no matter which one. Coaches are supposed to lead, guide and direct what players two, compensate, adapt and find solutions via scheming and matchups.

It's utterly stupid to completely ignore the impact of coaching 6 years into a program, even if someone only has a knowledge level that is elementary.

Which coaches, that's debatable, but the impact of decisions has been very clear to date.

[Mace]

No one has the cred to cite him though. That is the issue.

I've never seen that mentality in Allen. You see that in Rodgers when he says anything, but I've never seen Allen full of himself. He was even humble about the Jets QB and referred to his own problems. He's going to sit there and watch film with Brady, Keenum and Barkley and be his own worst critic. He's going to look Diggs in the eye, talk to Morse, listen to his receivers, and answer for it all when anyone asks him. Allen will be fine if he's really healthy.

[sahlensguy]

I've never seen that mentality in Allen. You see that in Rodgers when he says anything, but I've never seen Allen full of himself. He was even humble about the Jets QB and referred to his own problems. He's going to sit there and watch film with Brady, Keenum and Barkley and be his own worst critic. He's going to look Diggs in the eye, talk to Morse, listen to his receivers, and answer for it all when anyone asks him. Allen will be fine if he's really healthy.

It's not a dig on Allen. It's just that his path to where he is now is so unique. He went from the corn fields to NFL mvp talks with little notice or collegiate success in between. Perhaps the most talented but raw prospect ever. Kudos to him to put in the work to be truly worthy of mvp consideration.

But he hasn't been in the league that long and has never won top honors. It was his lack of a college career of note that both fuels him in the NFL but can't add to his self confidence as a pro.

When things begin to go south for someone who doesn't have a rock solid foundation of success, things can really go south. Not just NFL qbs, either.

These coaches just aren't accomplished or competent enough to be part of a solid foundation for Josh, if and when he needs it.

[gochiefs]

Have you folks considered the UCL is affecting his throws? Not trolling, genuinely interested in this development and you all's take on this

Listen to Carson Palmer describe it's effects.

https://i.imgur.com/bJAAL1Ul.png

That sounds a LOT like what is happening here. If that ball has more velocity it gets there way before the DB can make a play on it. Instead, it just died.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Looking back at the last Allen int,. it wasnt a poor decision by Josh at all. <br><br>It was just a bad throw. <br><br>Davis was open if Josh leads him. In fact, Josh makes this throw 29 out of 30 times.<br><br>The throw was just behind him and short. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/missedthrow?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#missedthrow</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/notbaddecision?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#notbaddecision</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BillsMafia?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BillsMafia</a> <a href="https://t.co/qs87798P68">pic.twitter.com/qs87798P68</a></p>&mdash; Joe Miller III (@joemillerwired) <a href="https://twitter.com/joemillerwired/status/1592316946460004352?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 15, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Typ0]

It's not a dig on Allen. It's just that his path to where he is now is so unique. He went from the corn fields to NFL mvp talks with little notice or collegiate success in between. Perhaps the most talented but raw prospect ever. Kudos to him to put in the work to be truly worthy of mvp consideration.

But he hasn't been in the league that long and has never won top honors. It was his lack of a college career of note that both fuels him in the NFL but can't add to his self confidence as a pro.

When things begin to go south for someone who doesn't have a rock solid foundation of success, things can really go south. Not just NFL qbs, either.

These coaches just aren't accomplished or competent enough to be part of a solid foundation for Josh, if and when he needs it.

McDermott's saint Josh mentality has been driving that bus since Allen was drafted. Josh Allen is running the show not Sean McDermott. You can call that all Allen's fault if you want.

[Typ0]

Wasn't there a game earlier in the year it looked like the coaches did something brilliant and it turned out to be Josh Allen's work? \\

I can live with a string of bad INTs without getting too much in an uproar to be honest. He's got to grow through some of the intricacies of trying to be consistent throwing the ball around the way he does. The fumble I have no words for...like all you need to do is not fumble you literally can GIVE UP POINTS on the play and win the game and you fumble? The focus isn't there. Maybe a bad batch of ginko biloba.

[sahlensguy]

McDermott's saint Josh mentality has been driving that bus since Allen was drafted. Josh Allen is running the show not Sean McDermott. You can call that all Allen's fault if you want.

When did I ever say that McD is even capable of running the show to the SB and when did I ever blame Allen for the inability of the coaches?

[Goobylal]

Josh is A reason for the 3 losses, but he had help. Lots of it. How many 3rd and 4th and longs did the defense allow in the Vikings' last drive in regulation? How many dropped passes were there in the games overall? What about protection? Fumbles by other players? To pin it all on him when he IS the offense is unfair at best.

[Typ0]

When did I ever say that McD is even capable of running the show to the SB and when did I ever blame Allen for the inability of the coaches?

Sorry. I was talking to notty actually just through you. :peacepipe:

[sahlensguy]

Josh is A reason for the 3 losses, but he had help. Lots of it. How many 3rd and 4th and longs did the defense allow in the Vikings' last drive in regulation? How many dropped passes were there in the games overall? What about protection? Fumbles by other players? To pin it all on him when he IS the offense is unfair at best.

It takes a village...

[YardRat]

Dorsey is a first time OC, there are going to be expected bumps in the road. Having an experienced and successful QB is a huge plus, but every year even the most experienced and talented coordinators get caught by an opponents gameplan...they watch film and are pretty good at it too.

Receivers have been dropping balls that we have gotten used to them coming down with...that isn't helping. Maybe the last int is a result of Allen's injury, but 1---then he shouldn't have played to begin with and 2---he was turning the ball over similarly before the injury.

Josh (and the rest of the team...including the coaches) just need to pull their head out their asses mid-season yet again and all we can do is hope they finally learn something from these slumps so it doesn't bite them in the ass in the playoffs yet again or mid-season in future years yet again.

[Goobylal]

It takes a village...

...try not to be the idiot.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills had a QB problem for 30 years before Josh Allen. Josh Allen is the greatest QB in Bills history. Sorry Jimbo, Josh is better.

[Goobylal]

The Bills had a QB problem for 30 years before Josh Allen. Josh Allen is the greatest QB in Bills history. Sorry Jimbo, Josh is better.

I wish Josh had Jimbo's OL and Thurman.

[Woodman]

The Bills had a QB problem for 30 years before Josh Allen. Josh Allen is the greatest QB in Bills history. Sorry Jimbo, Josh is better.

Even better than Warren Rabb.

[sahlensguy]

...try not to be the idiot.

No worries. Goober.

[Goobylal]

No worries. Goober.

That wasn't meant for you necessarily. Just something I say when someone says "it takes a village."

[Woodman]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/11/16/josh-allen-on-losses-we-dont-have-to-make-this-a-bigger-deal-than-it-is/

“Let’s go about our business. We don’t have to make this a bigger deal (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAQ-7txBhco) than what it is,” Allen said. “We want to win every single game. When we step out on the field, I think it’s our goal, I think it’s everybody’s goal, to win that game. Find a way to do it. Obviously, we haven’t done that in the last couple of weeks. . . . It’s not like we’re not a bad team. We’ve been hurting ourselves a lot. If we can make smarter decisions, if we can play situational football and complementary football, that’s all we gotta do.”

[Historian]

I think the injuries have a lot to do with it, especially in the secondary, but he has made some odd decisions with the ball in the last three games.

And Opie is still a first time HC. He's going to botch some decisions.

Look at the eggs Andy Reid laid in Philly.

I think they'll right the ship, but the margin for error this year is very small.

This is a tough conference.

[Goobylal]

Who was responsible for the fumbled snap?

[TacklingDummy]

Who was responsible for the fumbled snap?

Dorsey.

Put Josh in shotgun. Scramble around, if no one is open, throw the ball 70 yards down field. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

[sahlensguy]

Dorsey.

Put Josh in shotgun. Scramble around, if no one is open, throw the ball 70 yards down field. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Even with a clean snap there is a fair risk of losing the half yard with a sneak. Just a horrible call.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Who was responsible for the fumbled snap?

Don't get me started on this one.

The big picture: the play is lined up that everyone knows it's a QB sneak. Tight formation and Davis in the back field. What do you think is the play? We are going man-o-man to push you back. Again, the flow of the game, have we been able to do that this game, or in recent games?

The execution: Brady was so successful in QB sneak, not because he is bigger and stronger than Josh, nor does he always have the better O-Line in front, but his varying cadence. I don't know what Josh used there. Apparently the Vikings got a good jump and blew Morse up right off the bat. I was expecting Josh to use more cadence there. What if we jumped early? another half inch back and who cares.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Don't get me started on this one.

The big picture: the play is lined up that everyone knows it's a QB sneak. Tight formation and Davis in the back field. What do you think is the play? We are going man-o-man to push you back. Again, the flow of the game, have we been able to do that this game, or in recent games?

The execution: Brady was so successful in QB sneak, not because he is bigger and stronger than Josh, nor does he always have the better O-Line in front, but his varying cadence. I don't know what Josh used there. Apparently the Vikings got a good jump and blew Morse up right off the bat. I was expecting Josh to use more cadence there. What if we jumped early? another half inch back and who cares.
good point.
why not try to make them jump offsides. they do that. it's ballgame.

[notacon]

To blame the coaches isn't silly, this is the 6th year of a program getting progressively more talented because of the GM, but the results remain similar. That's not singularly on a player, no matter which one. Coaches are supposed to lead, guide and direct what players two, compensate, adapt and find solutions via scheming and matchups.

It's utterly stupid to completely ignore the impact of coaching 6 years into a program, even if someone only has a knowledge level that is elementary.

Which coaches, that's debatable, but the impact of decisions has been very clear to date.
Yes, it absolute is “silly” to blame the coaches for Josh’s head-up-his-ass throws in the three losses the Bills have suffered this year.

The TEAM is fine. The TEAM has played more than well enough to win every game this year....despite having an insane number of starters missing games left and right.


The ONLY thing that has stopped them from winning, is Josh Allen’s brain farts.

As was mentioned Monday night, Philadelphia has SEVENTEEN starters that have played every game this year. According to my quick research, the Bills have only EIGHT starters that have played every game. Only THREE defensive starters.

The fact that they still are 6-3, and the three games they lost were VERY winnable, EXCEPT for Josh’s ****-ups, shows GOOD coaching, not the opposite.

To ignore this is to ignore plain reality.

[notacon]

I’ve said what I wanted to say in this thread. After listening to Isaiah McKenzie’s pod cast (https://www.golongtd.com/p/isaiah-mckenzie-show-s2-ep5-its-gut#details), especially about the mental part of th NFL game I am convinced more than ever that the issues with Josh Allen is all n his head.


It’s a long season. The pressure is astounding with the hopes and dreams of the whole WNY area on Josh’s shoulders. It is natural that he thinks HE has to find a way to win each game. He wants it SO badly.

It reminds me of the famous quote from the father of golf, Bobby Jones....


"Competitive golf is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch course... the space between your ears”.


It is accurate to apply the same mindset to professional football....


"Competitive NFL football is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch field... the space between your ears."

[sahlensguy]

I’ve said what I wanted to say in this thread. After listening to Isaiah McKenzie’s pod cast (https://www.golongtd.com/p/isaiah-mckenzie-show-s2-ep5-its-gut#details), especially about the mental part of th NFL game I am convinced more than ever that the issues with Josh Allen is all n his head.


It’s a long season. The pressure is astounding with the hopes and dreams of the whole WNY area on Josh’s shoulders. It is natural that he thinks HE has to find a way to win each game. He wants it SO badly.

It reminds me of the famous quote from the father of golf, Bobby Jones....


"Competitive golf is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch course... the space between your ears”.


It is accurate to apply the same mindset to professional football....


"Competitive NFL football is played mainly on a five-and-a-half-inch field... the space between your ears."

Only one who is too objective can equate the trials and tribulations of a golfer to those of an athlete on a team sport such as football.

[Goobylal]

Dorsey.

Put Josh in shotgun. Scramble around, if no one is open, throw the ball 70 yards down field. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.


Even with a clean snap there is a fair risk of losing the half yard with a sneak. Just a horrible call.


Don't get me started on this one.

The big picture: the play is lined up that everyone knows it's a QB sneak. Tight formation and Davis in the back field. What do you think is the play? We are going man-o-man to push you back. Again, the flow of the game, have we been able to do that this game, or in recent games?

The execution: Brady was so successful in QB sneak, not because he is bigger and stronger than Josh, nor does he always have the better O-Line in front, but his varying cadence. I don't know what Josh used there. Apparently the Vikings got a good jump and blew Morse up right off the bat. I was expecting Josh to use more cadence there. What if we jumped early? another half inch back and who cares.

So Morse screwed up? Because DT's are always trying to get the jump and I don't think Morse and Josh have fumbled the snap once this year, and in the most critical moment...they do.

Yeah I'm not sure why Josh didn't try to draw them off-sides. In addition, there should have been a RB behind him to at least give the appearance of a handoff and possibly to push him forward (if not recover the fumble). I thought QB sneak was the right call and that if it led to a safety, it wasn't the worst thing in the world.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

So Morse screwed up? Because DT's are always trying to get the jump and I don't think Morse and Josh have fumbled the snap once this year, and in the most critical moment...they do.

Yeah I'm not sure why Josh didn't try to draw them off-sides. In addition, there should have been a RB behind him to at least give the appearance of a handoff and possibly to push him forward (if not recover the fumble). I thought QB sneak was the right call and that if it led to a safety, it wasn't the worst thing in the world.

In bunch formation is to prevent defenders shooting the gap. But it also makes the QB sneak difficult because it pretty much means the O-Line needs to push the defenders back to gain anything. In that case, the cadence is really important because Offense people know where the defenders have to watch the ball. It is not the right call with our staple of RBs ; probably why they have Davis back there. Davis can push but can also slip out to catch the ball. I'd say slipping out to catch the ball is the right play there.

Safety is the 2nd worst outcome. Up by 4 with 30 some seconds left. Now you are up by 2 and have to punt back to them. One jump ball to Jefferson and you are staring at losing by 1 to a field goal with no time left.

[swiper]

If all you are going to do is troll with stupid posts instead of even a shred of substance, take it somewhere else.

It is the original post that was stupid. Go away. Forever. No one cares what you have to say and none if it is ever right.

[swiper]

Who was responsible for the fumbled snap?

Both the center and the QB. It's amazing they had what, 50-60 snaps before that with no issues. Then on that particular play they can't complete the snap? The NFL is fixed. Like the WWE. No other explanation for that.

[sahlensguy]

Both the center and the QB. It's amazing they had what, 50-60 snaps before that with no issues. Then on that particular play they can't complete the snap? The NFL is fixed. Like the WWE. No other explanation for that.

99% probability to win, before the snap.

Not new for McClappy.

Same chance to win with 13 seconds left against the Chiefs too.

[TacklingDummy]

Probably could have ran around the endzone on 1,2,3 downs burning time off the clock before taking a saftey on 4th down.

[sahlensguy]

Probably could have ran around the endzone on 1,2,3 downs burning time off the clock before taking a saftey on 4th down.

That would have worked too. The worst that would have happened would be a holding penalty for the safety. Instead they lined up, showed no patience or ingenuity and tried to sneak it against a stacked line, like entitled blockheads. Just like the qb sneak in last year's loss to Tennessee.

[sahlensguy]

Ugh.

"Dorsey deserves the brunt of the blame"

https://youtu.be/HkFZbV9kPi4

[gochiefs]

what happened to the deep throws?

https://i.imgur.com/Pp9MYe7.jpg

[notacon]

Probably could have ran around the endzone on 1,2,3 downs burning time off the clock before taking a saftey on 4th down.

I though I already said all I wanted to in they thread. But, this is just too absurd to ignore.

It is SO not credible.

There was 49 seconds on the clock when the Bills snapped the ball. The clock ran down to 41 seconds (when the Vikings kicked off) after the fumble and recovery.


The Vikes did exactly what the Bills should have done in the 13 second KC game...the kicked it short and forced the Bills to field the ball on their own 4 yard line. The returner went out of bunds at the 20.

Play #1. The kickoff ate 5 seconds off the clock.

Play #2. Bills ball on the 20, 36 seconds left. Next play took 9 seconds off. 27 seconds left at the Bills 32.

Play #3. Next play took 3 seconds off the clock. Bills on their 40. 24 second left.

Play #4. Next play took 6 seconds off the clock (the disputed sideline catch by Davis). 18 seconds left, ball on Minny’s 40.

Play #5. Next play took 7 seconds off the cloak. 11 seconds left. Ball on Minny’s 25.

Play #6. Next play took 6 seconds off the clock (incomplete throw way). 5 second left, ball on Minny’s 25.

Play #7. Next play took 3 seconds off the cloak. FG. 2 seconds left when the Bills kick off.

That’s SEVEN plays that took 39 seconds.

NO, taking a shotgun snap and “running around” in the end zone and then throwing the ball away THREE DOWNS, STOPPING THE CLOCK EACH TIME, would have been stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Would have maybe taken 20 seconds off the clock total. More likely is getting tackled in the end zone, with a relatively long time left on the clock. Taking a safety puts the outright win within a FG.

Free kick the ball to Minny, and they probably get it on their own 25 to 30 yard line, with at least 21 seconds on the clock. Probably a LOT more.

NO, the correct and ONLY strategy is to snap the ****ing ball with QB under center and have a player pushing the back of the QB to just not lose any inches. DO that twice and game over.

NO ONE expects a QB to fumble the ****ing snap, and the opposing team to get it for TD.

There was NO OTHER strategy other than what the Bills did do.

It was a total cluster **** of epic proportions between center and QB. BAD LUCK. NOT bad strategy.

[sahlensguy]

Who in their right mind thought that the top offensive coach on this team should be a rookie?

[sahlensguy]

I though I already said all I wanted to in they thread. But, this is just too absurd to ignore.

It is SO not credible.

There was 49 seconds on the clock when the Bills snapped the ball. The clock ran down to 41 seconds (when the Vikings kicked off) after the fumble and recovery.


The Vikes did exactly what the Bills should have done in the 13 second KC game...the kicked it short and forced the Bills to field the ball on their own 4 yard line. The returner went out of bunds at the 20.

Play #1. The kickoff ate 5 seconds off the clock.

Play #2. Bills ball on the 20, 36 seconds left. Next play took 9 seconds off. 27 seconds left at the Bills 32.

Play #3. Next play took 3 seconds off the clock. Bills on their 40. 24 second left.

Play #4. Next play took 6 seconds off the clock (the disputed sideline catch by Davis). 18 seconds left, ball on Minny’s 40.

Play #5. Next play took 7 seconds off the cloak. 11 seconds left. Ball on Minny’s 25.

Play #6. Next play took 6 seconds off the clock (incomplete throw way). 5 second left, ball on Minny’s 25.

Play #7. Next play took 3 seconds off the cloak. FG. 2 seconds left when the Bills kick off.

That’s SEVEN plays that took 39 seconds.

NO, taking a shotgun snap and “running around” in the end zone and then throwing the ball away THREE DOWNS, STOPPING THE CLOCK EACH TIME, would have been stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Would have maybe taken 20 seconds off the clock total. More likely is getting tackled in the end zone, with a relatively long time left on the clock. Taking a safety puts the outright win within a FG.

Free kick the ball to Minny, and they probably get it on their own 25 to 30 yard line, with at least 21 seconds on the clock. Probably a LOT more.

NO, the correct and ONLY strategy is to snap the ****ing ball with QB under center and have a player pushing the back of the QB to just not lose any inches. DO that twice and game over.

NO ONE expects a QB to fumble the ****ing snap, and the opposing team to get it for TD.

There was NO OTHER strategy other than what the Bills did do.

It was a total cluster **** of epic proportions between center and QB. BAD LUCK. NOT bad strategy.

Shotgun it and you have 3 plays to complete a dump off or run it. Three.

I like those chances.

Instead they lined up and tried to sneak it against a stacked line like a wounded bull. No hard count. No motion. No nothing.

The whole thing is a pattern with this team under McD.

[notacon]

Shotgun it and you have 3 plays to complete a dump off or run it. Three.

I like those chances.

Instead they lined up and tried to sneak it against a stacked line like a wounded bull. No hard count. No motion. No nothing.

The whole thing is a pattern with this team under McD.
THANK GOD you are not a NFL coach. And you are illustrating exactly why.

[swiper]

THANK GOD you are not a NFL coach. And you are illustrating exactly why.

LOL. Look in the mirror Sally.

[sahlensguy]

THANK GOD you are not a NFL coach. And you are illustrating exactly why.

You have an argument against it?

[notacon]

You have an argument against it, in your own words?

I already did.

[sahlensguy]

I already did.

I didn't say to throw the ball away 3 times though.

I said that Josh would have had 3 chances to make a play. I like those odds.

[notacon]

I didn't say to throw the ball away 3 times though.

I said that Josh would have had 3 chances to make a play. I like those odds.
TacklingDummy did. And I was responding to his idea.

Anyway, you are still wrong. Josh had a chance to “make a play”...the one that he has done literally thousands of times without incident. TAKE THE ****ING SANP AND DON’T FUMBLE IT!!!

THAT provides the very best odds. Period. No NFL coach (at least one that wants to keep his job) would do anything different in that situation, because trying anything else is stupid, stupid, stupid.


But, hey, you could approach the Bills (or any other NFL team) with your ideas and ask for a coaching job. Good luck with that.

[sahlensguy]

TacklingDummy did. And I was responding to his idea.

Anyway, you are still wrong. Josh had a chance to “make a play”...the one that he has done literally thousands of times without incident. TAKE THE ****ING SANP AND DON’T FUMBLE IT!!!

THAT provides the very best odds. Period. No NFL coach (at least one that wants to keep his job) would do anything different in that situation, because trying anything else is stupid, stupid, stupid.


But, hey, you could approach the Bills (or any other NFL team) with your ideas and ask for a coaching job. Good luck with that.

Without incident? What?

Literally the last time Josh did this in as big of a situation, there was an incident.

Last year's sneak against the Titans at the goal line, against a stacked line, for no gain. Josh slipped on that one. Game over.

Stupid, stupid.

[notacon]

Without incident? What?

Literally the last time Josh did this in as big of a situation, there was an incident.

Last year's sneak against the Titans at the goal line, against a stacked line, for no gain. Josh slipped on that one. Game over.

Stupid, stupid.

He did not fumble the ball. What game did YOU watch???

Stupid, stupid.

[sahlensguy]

He did not fumble the ball. What game did YOU watch???

Stupid, stupid.

Who are you talking too? Where did I say he fumbled?

[notacon]

Who are you talking too? Where did I say he fumbled?

You are comparing the two plays.


I was CLEARLY taking about NOT FUMBLING the ball on a simple snap..which is abundantly and plainly apparent to any honest person when I wrote...... "the one that he has done literally thousands of times without incident. TAKE THE ****ING SANP AND DON’T FUMBLE IT!!!”


Jesus.

Your bullcrap is insufferable.

[sahlensguy]

You are comparing the two plays.


I was CLEARLY taking about NOT FUMBLING the ball on a simple snap..which is abundantly and plainly apparent to any honest person when I wrote...... "the one that he has done literally thousands of times without incident. TAKE THE ****ING SANP AND DON’T FUMBLE IT!!!”


Jesus.

Your bullcrap is insufferable.

Jesus. Right back at you.

A fumble isn't the only incident to worry about on that sneak. So why focus on one thing that can go wrong. You are so objective...

Just Google, 'qb sneak fumble' and many examples come up, so your thousands of snaps without incident is just absurd. Add in other "incidents" in, such as Josh's botched sneak in Tennessee and you should be able to see that there is plenty of risk with that call. Do you have date"that provides the very best odds", though?

And of course McD and the others want to keep his job. That's why they called that chicken **** play.

[notacon]

Jesus. Right back at you.

A fumble isn't the only incident to worry about on that sneak. So why focus on one thing that can go wrong. You are so objective...

Just Google, 'qb sneak fumble' and many examples come up, so your thousands of snaps without incident is just absurd. Add in other "incidents" in, such as Josh's botched sneak in Tennessee and you should be able to see that there is plenty of risk with that call. Do you have date"that provides the very best odds", though?

And of course McD and the others want to keep his job. That's why they called that chicken **** play.

They called that play because it’s the SMART play.


I suspect that 100% of NFL coaches agree with me, and not you.....it’s called smart situational football.


BTW....if we got the same result as the sneak against the Titans (no gain...no fumble), the Bills would have won the Minny game.

[TacklingDummy]

Shotgun it and you have 3 plays to complete a dump off or run it. Three.

I like those chances.

Instead they lined up and tried to sneak it against a stacked line like a wounded bull. No hard count. No motion. No nothing.

The whole thing is a pattern with this team under McD.
No one open, launch it 75 yards down the field.

[gochiefs]

where are the deep throws?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiCZi8XXgAA9Rar?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Woodman]

where are the deep throws?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiCZi8XXgAA9Rar?format=jpg&name=900x900
No need for them really.

We ran right threw their defense.

[Cntrygal]

where are the deep throws?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FiCZi8XXgAA9Rar?format=jpg&name=900x900

If you are here to troll, you WILL be banned. No further warning than this one.

[Mace]

That honestly looks like a Tyrod Taylor chart.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

That honestly looks like a Tyrod Taylor chart.
So?

Tyrod Taylor chart & stat is when there is a deep shot available he chooses safer checkdowns.

Josh Allen stats here is when defenses willingly give him the checkdowns by taking away the deep shots.

[Forward_Lateral]

So?

Tyrod Taylor chart & stat is when there is a deep shot available he chooses safer checkdowns.

Josh Allen stats here is when defenses willingly give him the checkdowns by taking away the deep shots.

I don’t understand what fans want. Josh was playing reckless the last 3ish games. He played very patiently today, and took a few nice shots when they were there. Was the play calling a bit to conservative in the first quarter? Sure, but that’s not about Josh.

[notacon]

I don’t understand what fans want. Josh was playing reckless the last 3ish games. He played very patiently today, and took a few nice shots when they were there. Was the play calling a bit to conservative in the first quarter? Sure, but that’s not about Josh.

Spot on.

Amazing isn’t it???

All the complaints that the Bills don’t commit to the run, especially when they are ahead late in the game. This game, they do exactly that, and then there are complaints that Josh is not throwing deep enough. All I wanted to see is a clean game from Josh, no mistakes, no NTS. Smart situational football. And the whole team accomplished that pretty damn well.

Last four drives the Bills had...

2 - Runs
2 - Passes
Score TD on run

6 - runs
1 - pass
Score FG

6 - runs
2 - passes
Score FG

4 runs
1 Pass
Score FG


Al the time while they had the lead. The outcome was never really in doubt in the second half.

All the complaints that the Bills “can’t stop the run”. And sourpuss predictions that Chubb was going to run all over us.

The Browns running game....

Hunt - 5 carries for 32 yards - 6.4 avg
Brissett - 7 carries for 29 yards - 4.1 avg
BIG BAD NICK CHUBB - 14 carries - NINETEEN YARDS - 1.4 avg.

Total rushing stats for Brown - 26 carries - only EIGHTY yards - 3.1 avg.


The Bills won a game after immeasurable difficulties....took away the Browns strength.....STUCK WITH the run and had an astounding 33 carries for 171 yards - 5.2 avg.

They stuck to business and did what they had to do to get the win. There are no style bonuses in the W-L record.

[sahlensguy]

I don’t understand what fans want. Josh was playing reckless the last 3ish games. He played very patiently today, and took a few nice shots when they were there. Was the play calling a bit to conservative in the first quarter? Sure, but that’s not about Josh.

Probably more consistency, better decision making and accuracy.

[Forward_Lateral]

Probably more consistency, better decision making and accuracy.

I didn’t see any bad decisions or accuracy issues today. I must be blind

[Turf]

The Bills have the D close out the game problem.

[sahlensguy]

I didn’t see any bad decisions or accuracy issues today. I must be blind

Did you see the 1st half? Just horrible before the scoring drive. I forget how many 3 and outs. Did not look like Josh at all. The accuracy was not there.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

I didn’t see any bad decisions or accuracy issues today. I must be blind

Yup
you must have missed the entire first quarter

overthrowing everyone in the flat

[YardRat]

I didn’t see any bad decisions or accuracy issues today. I must be blind

He was struggling a little early, balls were sailing high on him.

[swiper]

I don’t understand what fans want. Josh was playing reckless the last 3ish games. He played very patiently today, and took a few nice shots when they were there. Was the play calling a bit to conservative in the first quarter? Sure, but that’s not about Josh.

I believe the person that posted that stat may have been trying to make the point that, perhaps, Josh does have some sort of publicly unstated injury to his throwing arm. Don't claim to know the answer to that, but the stat is different than such prior to the Jet game.

[swiper]

He was struggling a little early, balls were sailing high on him.

I had to tune in almost half hour late. The first 6 to 8 passes I watched were the worst pass attempts I ever saw Allen throw. Thankfully he snapped out of it before halftime. I wrote it off to a short, disrupted practice week.

[Forward_Lateral]

I should've clarified, I didn't see any issues after the first quarter.

The first quarter was a horribly played quarter, I agree. It looked like a team that hadn't practiced all week.

[swiper]

I should've clarified, I didn't see any issues after the first quarter.

The first quarter was a horribly played quarter, I agree. It looked like a team that hadn't practiced all week.

He was awful for most of the 2nd quarter too. Then it was like a light switch was flipped.


Josh Allen after two-minute warning of first half

For all of Allen’s struggles in the first half (see later), he quickly turned around after the two-minute warning, making several key throws, including a 28-yard strike down the field to Gabe Davis and a touchdown in the back of the end zone to Stefon Diggs.

From the first half two-minute warning on, Allen was 14-of-17 for 170 yards and a touchdown.

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/capaccio-arrow-up-arrow-down-browns-at-bills-in-detroit-2022


Josh Allen’s first half struggles

The Bills quarterback was off through most of the first half, struggling to hit receivers with several passes and sailing balls over their heads.

Prior to the two-minute warning of the first half, Allen was just 4-of-10 for 27 yards.

First three drives

The Bills did not gain a first down until their fourth drive of the game, ending their first three drives after three plays each and with two punts and a field goal.

Glad I missed the first quarter.

[Discotrish]

I'm on the fence about what's going on with Josh. One of two things.

1) Hidden injury that is bothering him.

2) Mental block that's causing him to regress. Barring the unstated injury, I'm favoring the latter explanation. He looks to me like he's shell-shocked from how things have gone sideways in the two prior losses, and the resulting criticism due to his high profile. Obviously I'm not the only former athlete here, but we all know when a player loses confidence that is TERRIBLE for your performance. That's what it looks like out there. A very tentative performance.

So, hopefully there's someone on the team who can talk him through this. Or, why not get a sports psychologist in there. That's what they're for! We've got a quarter billion invested in our QB. We should be every bit as concerned with his mental state as we are with his physical state.

Anyway that's how I'm seeing it. Hopefully he shakes this off and regains his mental dominance.

Because what we saw against the Browns was NOT adequate for a playoff run. And certainly not for a Super Bowl aspiration!

We won, but we had a lot of help from the Browns to get there.

We need Josh in the right headspace.

[sahlensguy]

I'm on the fence about what's going on with Josh. One of two things.

1) Hidden injury that is bothering him.

2) Mental block that's causing him to regress. Barring the unstated injury, I'm favoring the latter explanation. He looks to me like he's shell-shocked from how things have gone sideways in the two prior losses, and the resulting criticism due to his high profile. Obviously I'm not the only former athlete here, but we all know when a player loses confidence that is TERRIBLE for your performance. That's what it looks like out there. A very tentative performance.

So, hopefully there's someone on the team who can talk him through this. Or, why not get a sports psychologist in there. That's what they're for! We've got a quarter billion invested in our QB. We should be every bit as concerned with his mental state as we are with his physical state.

Anyway that's how I'm seeing it. Hopefully he shakes this off and regains his mental dominance.

Because what we saw against the Browns was NOT adequate for a playoff run. And certainly not for a Super Bowl aspiration!

We won, but we had a lot of help from the Browns to get there.

We need Josh in the right headspace.

That's kinda of my thought. Trouble is there isn't really anyone to talk him through it. Daboll is gone and Dorsey hasn't found himself yet. Players can only say so much. And to make matters worse, his lack of any sort of celebrated and acknowledged success at the high school/college level gives him no foundation to fall back onto when times get tough. That early success can help give a guy like Alex Smith a long and productive NFL career. It helps Josh, not in the least.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

He was awful for most of the 2nd quarter too. Then it was like a light switch was flipped.



https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/capaccio-arrow-up-arrow-down-browns-at-bills-in-detroit-2022



Glad I missed the first quarter.


For you sake I’m glad you did too

they got their first first down in the middle of the second quarter

[notacon]

I should've clarified, I didn't see any issues after the first quarter.

The first quarter was a horribly played quarter, I agree. It looked like a team that hadn't practiced all week.

Yeah, the offense, and Josh, were pretty crappy for about the first third of of the game.


Then, they weren’t.


Josh was inaccurate and tentative until his sideline pass to Davis for 29 yards in the last drive of the half culminating with the rocket he threw to Diggs for the TD.

During and after that TD drive, he went 14 of 17 for 170 yards for the rest of the game.

Like all great QB’s that run into a rough patch, he worked his way out of it.

Now, he needs to continue to do so next game.


Appropriately, on Thanksgiving Day, when all Bills fans should be thankful that we have been blessed with Josh Allen.

[Woodman]

Yeah, the offense, and Josh, were pretty crappy for about the first third of of the game.


Then, they weren’t.


Josh was inaccurate and tentative until his sideline pass to Davis for 29 yards in the last drive of the half culminating with the rocket he threw to Diggs for the TD.

During and after that TD drive, he went 14 of 17 for 170 yards for the rest of the game.

Like all great QB’s that run into a rough patch, he worked his way out of it.

Now, he needs to continue to do so next game.


Appropriately, on Thanksgiving Day, when all Bills fans should be thankful that we have been blessed with Josh Allen.

That run game really helped Josh we just gotta stick to it.

[sahlensguy]

That run game really helped Josh we just gotta stick to it.

If the Browns weren't the Browns we would have been in trouble. Who knows how we were leading at the half...

[Woodman]

If the Browns weren't the Browns we would have been in trouble. Who knows how we were leading at the half...
Is it there coaching that keeps them "THE BROWNS"

[sahlensguy]

Is it there coaching that keeps them "THE BROWNS"

Considering the irresponsible handling of Watson, I'd look first at ownership.

[Woodman]

Considering the irresponsible handling of Watson, I'd look first at ownership.

Good point.

[Mace]

So?

Tyrod Taylor chart & stat is when there is a deep shot available he chooses safer checkdowns.

Josh Allen stats here is when defenses willingly give him the checkdowns by taking away the deep shots.

So, I remember Tyrod Taylor struggling to have a 200 yard passing game, and amid the glory of Taylor's passing career, I also remember our QB is Josh Allen now. I kind of can't believe you asked me "So ?". We seriously went Tyrod Taylor with Josh Allen ? For whatever reason it's inadequate, they need to own up to the reason.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Take what the defense gives you; good things tend to happen, especially if you are ahead and raking up points. In the 2nd half of the Browns game, there is no need for Josh to force the issue by taking chances. Ever heard of the phrase when in redzone, throw to open guy or check down? Every coach will tell you that.

There are cases you need to take chances, like when you are behind. We knew Josh has the capability to do that. Just no need to do that all the time.

Right now the Bills do have issue in the red zone. I believe the opponents have caught up with Dorsey and the Bills offense there. Time to do counter adjustments, not to take a chances that are not good chances, which is what Josh has been doing. In his Sunday presser, Josh said we are not doing that great but still scored 31 points. That just shows you that we can still win games if we are not doing things hurting ourselves like the kind of turnovers we had been doing prior to the Browns game.

I don't care they are scoring 40 every time, looking great, blowing teams at this point of the season. Winning ugly, winning by a point is enough for me. They do need to work to figure things out, to peak at the right time. Every year the superbowl winning team is coming together at the right time.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Further to my point.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bills offense leads NFL in both:<br>Drives ending in scores (48.1%)<br>Drives ending in turnovers (17%)<br><br>That&#39;s wild and has to be pretty unique. When teams say the only thing holding them back is themselves (and mainly turnovers), it&#39;s usually just speak, but in this case it&#39;s true.</p>&mdash; Sal Capaccio �� (@SalSports) <a href="https://twitter.com/SalSports/status/1595078104418029568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 22, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

On average, an NFL team has 12 possessions in a game. If the Bills are able to reduce the 17% turnovers and get some of them into ending in scoring category, let's say just 50% of the drives end up scoring, we have 6 scoring drives. Say we only score TD on 1/3 of the scoring drives, you are talking about 28 points a game on average. I think almost all teams are signing for 28 points a game.

[Typ0]

Further to my point.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Bills offense leads NFL in both:<br>Drives ending in scores (48.1%)<br>Drives ending in turnovers (17%)<br><br>That's wild and has to be pretty unique. When teams say the only thing holding them back is themselves (and mainly turnovers), it's usually just speak, but in this case it's true.</p>— Sal Capaccio �� (@SalSports) <a href="https://twitter.com/SalSports/status/1595078104418029568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">November 22, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

On average, an NFL team has 12 possessions in a game. If the Bills are able to reduce the 17% turnovers and get some of them into ending in scoring category, let's say just 50% of the drives end up scoring, we have 6 scoring drives. Say we only score TD on 1/3 of the scoring drives, you are talking about 28 points a game on average. I think almost all teams are signing for 28 points a game.

How much punting are we doing?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

How much punting are we doing?
Exactly 2 punts a game

[Bill Cody]

Exactly 2 punts a game

we punt so little Martin isn't even on the NFL.com list which tracks guys averaging at least 2.5 punts a game. Matin would fall like 12th in gross average, like 5th in net if he was eligible. Punt God wouldn't have mattered much even if he was as good as advertised.

[Typ0]

Exactly 2 punts a game

Just saying in extending your statistical analysis that number can't change and your analysis is sound ... but if we start punting more often that changes the whole model and you don't even have it factored in.

[gochiefs]

looks like josh's arm/elbow is improving...he wasn't even attempting throws over 30 yards the previous two games

i expect josh to absolutely lay waste to the rest of the afc east starting in 10 days

https://charts-cdn-b.nextgenstats.nfl.com/static-charts/900/pass-chart_ALL529264_2022-REG-12_1669350889273.jpeg

[Woodman]

looks like josh's arm/elbow is improving...he wasn't even attempting throws over 30 yards the previous two games

i expect josh to absolutely lay waste to the rest of the afc east starting in 10 days

https://charts-cdn-b.nextgenstats.nfl.com/static-charts/900/pass-chart_ALL529264_2022-REG-12_1669350889273.jpeg

7 days but who's counting. :D

[Woodman]

we punt so little Martin isn't even on the NFL.com list which tracks guys averaging at least 2.5 punts a game. Matin would fall like 12th in gross average, like 5th in net if he was eligible. Punt God wouldn't have mattered much even if he was as good as advertised.

Martin has done a great job of punting for us .... much better than Haack IMO.

[notacon]

Unfortunately this thread is eerily prescient.

The penchant for Josh’s stupid, head-up-your ass, sloppy, loss causing turnovers and bad, BAD mental errors was supposed to be addressed and improved. A fresh start to the new season. Josh was supposed to learn from his mistakes.

He obviously has NOT!!!

Let’s face it. The observations that started this thread are still THE same issue that is holding this team back from its full potential....



Josh Allen is THE reason the Bills are considered a legitimate Super Bowl contender, and Josh Allen will be THE reason they don’t even get there, much less win it.

Yes, we all love Josh. He is an unicorn of QB’s and has all the traits we Bills fans have been begging for for decades.

Yes, his amazing performances have titillated the whole football ball world (even in defeat) and has won so many games by his awesomeness.

But, he is THE cause for the Bills three loses this year. You can try and blame other players….the coaches….the play calling….even the massive amount of injuries.

But none of those come close to the damage Josh Allen has done, almost single handedly to prevent what should be a 9-0 record.

Miami game, he inexplicably threw a one hop pass on 4th down and goal at the Fins’ 2 yard line. A sure go ahead TD.

Against Green Bay, he tried his best to hand the game to the Packers with two boneheaded INT’s. The second one was inexcusable, 3rd and goal at GB 3 yard line that would have given the Bills a 34-10 lead. Instead, it breathed some life into the dormant Packers. Thankfully, the inept Packers just were too stinky to take advantage of Josh massive mistakes.

The Jets game, he correctly said that he “..played like ****”.

First INT in the red zone, and prevented the Bills from jumping to an early lead. The next drive, instead of being up 7-0 could have been 14-0.

His second INT handed the ball to the Jets at the Bills 19 yard line that even one of the worst QB’s in the league, Zach Wilson, took advantage of to take the lead for good.


The Minny game, the loss was almost ALL on Josh. THREE ****ING TURNOVERS in the second half.

TWO TERRIBLE INT’s, not only in the Red zone, but IN the Vikings END ZONE. Both of them inexcusable for a QB who is supposed to be one of the best in the NFL.

Earlier this year, a thread was started….

Mahomes has the easiest job in NFL history, and Allen’s still better (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/259598-Mahomes-has-the-easiest-job-in-NFL-history-and-Allen-s-still-better)……which was filled of hubris and nonsense (unfortunately all the posts were lost) with the thread starter flatly stating that (paraphrasing)….

‘Josh Allen is better than Mahomes and it’s not even close’

After too many idiots saying that Mahomes would regress after losing Tyreek Hill, what has REALLY happened is that Mahomes has shown WHY he is considered the best QB in the NFL, and with Allen’s recent regression to his rookie year mistakes, the reverse is true.

Mahomes is the best QB in the league over Allen, and it’s not even close.

Yes, the amazing GOOD of Allen and his playing style inevitably produces some of the worst boneheaded dumb plays.

Can he overcome his penchant for INT’s at the WORST possible time??? Can he come back from the QB with the MOST INTS’s in the NFL….and worse yet, the MOST Red Zone INTS’s???

No one has any idea. I certainly hope so.

This Bills team is one of the best in the NFL. The defense, despite the massive amount of injuries STILL is #2 in points allowed, only two tenths of a point behind the leader….16.8 PTS/G vs 16.6.

That is a championship level defense, and when Josh is not making HUGE mistakes, a championship offence.

Right now, the biggest obstacle to the Bills being the outright best team in the NFL in both performance and record, is JOSH ALLEN.

I have always been an extreme optimist for the Bills….and I still am when I predict they will go on a six-game winning streak and go into Cincy in week #17 with a 12-3 record. (update note: the Bills did EXACTLY that)

But, so sad to say, the reality is that THE reason that may not happen is Josh Allen and that needs to be said.


Last night, despite the three awful, terrible, rookie-like INT’s, the Bills STILL had the WIN within their grasp. Four minutes in the game....score tied (because of Josh's THIRD stupid INT).....just hold the ball, dink and dunk down the field, the best outcome would be a TD to crush the Jets hope. Almost as good is to eat up clock and score a winning FG with hardly any time on the clock.

The absolute, worst outcome anyone could ever imagine is what Josh did. Fumble a good snap....pick the ball up and then fumble it AWAY again....handing the ball to the Jets on the 25 yard line.

Live by Josh, die by Josh.


No, I’m not throwing in the towel like too many sour puss, loser talk “fans”. The three best teams in the AFC ALL lost in week one. Joe Burrow, if possible, looked much worse than Josh. Mahomes does not seem to have a good pass catcher outside Kelce. LA Chargers screwed the pooch once again, their defense looks much worse than it should.

Week #1 in the NFL is more like the fourth preseason game and almost always provides little basis for overreactions (for both a win or loss...good or bad)....but Josh’s brain farts cannot be ignored.

Yep...Live by Josh, die by Josh.

[Buffalogic]

Stop bumping your own threads.

[sahlensguy]

Not sure I understand the premise of the OP


.Right now, the biggest obstacle to the Bills being the outright best team in the NFL in both performance and record, is JOSH ALLEN.

So without JA, the Bills would have had the best team in the NFL?

That's just a bad spin.

[sukie]

That pass chart says it. He cannot consistently throw in the center. Still. If I was a DC I wouldn’t bother covering the center.

[sahlensguy]

That pass chart says it. He cannot consistently throw in the center. Still. If I was a DC I wouldn’t bother covering the center.

Like on the int to Gabe Davis. You know he's not cutting inside.

[notacon]

Stop bumping your own threads.

Why???

This thread was spot on last Nov and is still spot on today.

[notacon]

Not sure I understand the premise of the OP



So without JA, the Bills would have had the best team in the NFL?

That's just a bad spin.

No, it’s not. It’s undeniable reality.

The context is that IF Josh did not screw the pooch in those three losses last year, the Bills would have had he best record in the NFL at that time.

The facts are undeniable.

[sahlensguy]

No, it’s not. It’s undeniable reality.

The context is that IF Josh did not screw the pooch in those three losses last year, the Bills would have, by far, the best record in the NFL at that time.

The facts are undeniable.

You spun this, terribly, when you highlighted:


.Right now, the biggest obstacle to the Bills being the outright best team in the NFL in both performance and record, is JOSH ALLEN.

There is no "if" in your premise.

JA was the biggest obstacle to being the best team, is what you bolded.

That's just false.

[notacon]

You spun this, terribly, when you highlighted:



There is no "if" in your premise.

JA was the biggest obstacle to being the best team, is what you bolded.

That's just false.

The “right now” was in November 2022. The implication and context from the rest of the post was that “But, he is THE cause for the Bills three loses this year. You can try and blame other players….the coaches….the play calling….even the massive amount of injuries.”.

Sure seems like you refuse to even try to understand easily understood concepts and the plain meaning of what was written.

That’s your problem and your bad “spin”.

[sukie]

Like on the int to Gabe Davis. You know he's not cutting inside.

I agree. Said that very thing in another thread.

[ticatfan]

The premise of the thread is true, but in a different way.

Bills FANS have a QB problem. We've been shellshocked by QBs who have shown promise for the past 30 years. Bledsoe looked like the second coming for the first 10 games he was here. Then he ended up stinking (for many reasons, not just him) .

Trent Edwards looked like a future all pro until Adrian Wilson scrambled his brains.

Fitzy looked like a world beater, got a nice contract, then, well, went back to being Fitzy.

Throw in a bunch of turds at QB besides those guys, and it's no wonder we panic when Josh has a couple of bad games in a row. We have been conditioned to think the absolute worst. It's instilled into ALL of us. Some fans are/were able to stifle it away, and become optimistic again, myself included, but any time there's adversity, we cannot help but think the worst. It's not our faults, it's just how we've trained ourselves to think.And only one had a chance to win the super bowl since kelly and he was run out of town. I was never sold on allen , I may be right after all.

[sahlensguy]

The “right now” was in November 2022. The implication and context from the rest of the post was that “But, he is THE cause for the Bills three loses this year. You can try and blame other players….the coaches….the play calling….even the massive amount of injuries.”.

Sure seems like you refuse to even try to understand easily understood concepts and the plain meaning of what was written.

That’s your problem and your bad “spin”.

You did make the claim that JA is responsible for the three loses. I disagree, especially the Miami game where the blistering sun had more to do with it than Josh and throwing an unfathomable amount of passes design by the OC.

Anyway, the premise is certainly the part that I quoted, which is to say that we would be the best team in the league (at the time of the OP) if Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen. Which is false.

[Woodman]

He's the reason they are 6-3.

He's the reason for 6 wins

He's the reason for 3 losses (I could argue he wasn't the reason for the Miami loss, but I digresss)

This team, like all superbowl "contenders" live and die with their QB. Let's hope that he and Dorsey can figure it out.

[notacon]

You did make the claim that JA is responsible for the three loses. I disagree, especially the Miami game where the blistering sun had more to do with it than Josh and throwing an unfathomable amount of passes design by the OC.

Anyway, the premise is certainly the part that I quoted, which is to say that we would be the best team in the league (at the time of the OP) if Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen. Which is false.

Disagree all you want. Keeping your eye tightly shut is nothing new. JA was mostly responsible for the three loses last season. Just like he WAS almost single handily responsible for the Jets loss this year.

YOU are the one who has **** on Josh Allen more than any other poster here....EVER in this thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263804-Allen-Post-Game-Comments). And especially in this lame post (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263804-Allen-Post-Game-Comments?p=5041721&viewfull=1#post5041721).

Your credibility is for ****.

[sahlensguy]

Disagree all you want. Keeping your eye tightly shut is nothing new. JA was mostly responsible for the three loses last season. Just like he WAS almost single handily responsible for the Jets loss this year.

YOU are the one who has **** on Josh Allen more than any other poster here....EVER in this thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263804-Allen-Post-Game-Comments). And especially in this lame post (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263804-Allen-Post-Game-Comments?p=5041721&viewfull=1#post5041721).

Your credibility is for ****.


Not sure why you got to go personal, but...

You are a real spinmeister.

Check this thread out: "Bills have a QB problem" where your premise is:


.Right now, the biggest obstacle to the Bills being the outright best team in the NFL in both performance and record, is JOSH ALLEN.

Look in the mirror for **** credibility and one who ****s on Josh Allen, bud.

The fact that you bumped this **** thread (your own) shows a total lack of self awareness.

[notacon]

Not sure why you got to go personal, but...

You are a real spinmeister.

Check this thread out: "Bills have a QB problem" where your premise is:



Look in the mirror for **** credibility and one who ****s on Josh Allen, bud.

The fact that you bumped this **** thread (your own) shows a total lack of self awareness.

There’s nothing “personal” about saying your "Your credibility is for ****.”. That’s about your posts and the (sometimes) very lame arguments you put forward.

This thread does not **** on Josh Allen. It’s a reasonable and accurate observation of the few mistakes he has made costing the team wins.

This thread was bumped because the premise that was readily apparent last season was even MORE glaringly apparent in the loss to the Jets. Just listen to what Josh said about his own performance.

That is simply reality and complete, accurate awareness of the same.

[sahlensguy]

There’s nothing “personal” about saying your "Your credibility is for ****.”. That’s about your posts and the (sometimes) very lame arguments you put forward.

This thread does not **** on Josh Allen. It’s a reasonable and accurate observation of the few mistakes he has made costing the team wins.

This thread was bumped because the premise that was readily apparent last season was even MORE glaringly apparent in the loss to the Jets. Just listen to what Josh said about his own performance.

That is simply reality and complete, accurate awareness of the same.

You can spin it any way you want but bolding in the OP of " the Bills have a QB problem"...


. Right now, the biggest obstacle to the Bills being the outright best team in the NFL in both performance and record, is JOSH ALLEN.

Is saying we would be better off if Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen

And debating this point by claiming past credibility is making it personal.

So buzz off with the personal attack if you don't want to debate that yours was a dumb premise.

[cas22]

Disagree all you want. Keeping your eye tightly shut is nothing new. JA was mostly responsible for the three loses last season. Just like he WAS almost single handily responsible for the Jets loss this year.

YOU are the one who has **** on Josh Allen more than any other poster here....EVER in this thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263804-Allen-Post-Game-Comments). And especially in this lame post (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263804-Allen-Post-Game-Comments?p=5041721&viewfull=1#post5041721).

Your credibility is for ****.


your kidding on the Miami game last year right???? Josh threw for 400 yards passing and 2 TD's and ran for 47 yards on the ground,,,, coaching is responsible for that loss, #1 was not being prepared for the heat... LV is staying in Virgina the entire week so the team stayed on the east coast, just like the Bills should have went to Florida 1st of that week and practiced all week in it... thats the kind of stuff that gets over looked and its called being prepared...

[sahlensguy]

your kidding on the Miami game last year right???? Josh threw for 400 yards passing and 2 TD's and ran for 47 yards on the ground,,,, coaching is responsible for that loss, #1 was not being prepared for the heat... LV is staying in Virgina the entire week so the team stayed on the east coast, just like the Bills should have went to Florida 1st of that week and practiced all week in it... thats the kind of stuff that gets over looked and its called being prepared...

It was a terrible pass but to put the loss mostly on JA because of one throw, is comical.

[Chet]

Without Josh Allen this team gets no stadium and is already up for contraction. He cost us Week 1 no doubt about it, but we don’t have the coaching in place to reel him in. There’s nothing to respect about the clapper or his pre-pubescent OC. Would you respect what they said? What coaching adjustments or game plan have either of those guys authored that demands your utmost attention and respect?

Daboll’s gone, he’s on his own now

[notacon]

your kidding on the Miami game last year right???? Josh threw for 400 yards passing and 2 TD's and ran for 47 yards on the ground,,,, coaching is responsible for that loss, #1 was not being prepared for the heat... LV is staying in Virgina the entire week so the team stayed on the east coast, just like the Bills should have went to Florida 1st of that week and practiced all week in it... thats the kind of stuff that gets over looked and its called being prepared...

No, I’m not kidding.

Watch this 4th down short hop pass again....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/enoUCDJyH3A?si=mDdCTDEBZ9duM2cu" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

[notacon]

Watch this fumble at the goal line vs Minny....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bLNfpfkSxnI?si=MzPRg3AwCQZAJXpK" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

How about this INT in the first Jets game last year....Bills up 14-10 5:38 left in Q3....handed Jets the ball for easy go ahead TD.

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[acehole]

Hey hey look at me I can post ...I can be the center of attention and say a lot of words to sound smart but I am not...

Look at me I matter. I want likes...

Jesus its one game.

Move along nothing to see here.

Jets have a qb problem last I saw.

[Mr. Pink]

Nota isn't completely wrong with this thread, to be fair. Unsure why it needed to be dug up from the graveyard but the points are solid.

For those who haven't, we have to just accept the fact that we're going to see a few games per season out of Josh that looked like last week. And we'll get a few weeks of the season where he's completely playing lights out and cannot be stopped.

Because of those lights out type of games, something a lot of QBs in this league have no ability to do, we'll have Allen in a Bills jersey for the next 10 years.

Get used to that Jets game, we're gonna see 20-30 more of them before Allen's career is over here.

[notacon]

Nota isn't completely wrong with this thread, to be fair. Unsure why it needed to be dug up from the graveyard but the points are solid.

For those who haven't, we have to just accept the fact that we're going to see a few games per season out of Josh that looked like last week. And we'll get a few weeks of the season where he's completely playing lights out and cannot be stopped.

Because of those lights out type of games, something a lot of QBs in this league have no ability to do, we'll have Allen in a Bills jersey for the next 10 years.

Get used to that Jets game, we're gonna see 20-30 more of them before Allen's career is over here.

It was valid and "needed to be dug up from the graveyard” because Josh Allen had probably his worst game (or at the very least one of his worst two or three) of his career on Monday night. It was painful to watch, and he literally single handedly cause that loss (as he admitted)

I in no way am questioning the elite level of Josh Allen. I do not want ANY other QB for the Bills now, or for as long as he plays the game.

But these observations are glaringly obvious and certainly much more accurate and constructive criticism (what this site is about as it’s is NOT a “homer” site) as compared to the bevy of sour puss Negative Nancy’s that plague this site.

[notacon]

In the six games since the Miami blowout (Allen's perfect QB rating game) it's time to recant on my observation that "I in no way am questioning the elite level of Josh Allen".

I am NOW.

He is playing like ****! Absolute ****!

Yeah...the Bills absolutely have a "QB problem". (among a whole bunch)

He has seven games to show that his recent massive regression is an anomaly. I'm not sure if he has it in himself. He may be irreversible broken....his peak well behind him.

I hope not, but am not encouraged either.

[Chet]

This dude is still content to die on the “it’s not the coach’s fault!” hill. You’ll see what’s up with Josh Allen once we get a real offensive coach back in the building. Till then, we can take solace in the fact that both our recently fired coordinators are/will be working at Carl’s Jr, since everybody sees they are garbage

[Chet]

Go find another Josh Allen. You won’t find another QB like that in your lifetime—at least one willing to play in Buffalo.

It is a sin to waste his abilities with amateur coaching. Does he make mistakes, sometimes crippling ones? Yes, but nobody made more mistakes than Favre and he was a SB champ and a 3 time MVP. Get the right guy in here, not this ginger plank of wood that nobody respects anymore

[sahlensguy]

The coaches f'd it all up.

Never coached with urgency and the clock struck 12 on JA.

[Historian]

This dude is still content to die on the “it’s not the coach’s fault!” hill. You’ll see what’s up with Josh Allen once we get a real offensive coach back in the building. Till then, we can take solace in the fact that both our recently fired coordinators are/will be working at Carl’s Jr, since everybody sees they are garbage

You know, it does make me wonder though.

Dorsey was in over his head a bit to be sure.

However, it's possible that Josh missed his as his quarterback's coach.

Perhaps why he has regressed....even if the Bills were still essentially running the Dabol offense.

[notacon]

This dude is still content to die on the “it’s not the coach’s fault!” hill. You’ll see what’s up with Josh Allen once we get a real offensive coach back in the building. Till then, we can take solace in the fact that both our recently fired coordinators are/will be working at Carl’s Jr, since everybody sees they are garbage

:rofl: You have this repulsive habit of misrepresenting (read: lie) what DO I write. I did not say, that “it’s not the coach’s fault!”.

What I DID say is that Josh Allen is in the throes of a massive regression. HE is making the awful, inexcusable turnovers. HE is the one who can't even accomplish one of THE basic jobs of a QB....handing the ball off to a RB. HE is responsible for either missing his reads or just not caring and throwing the ball when and where it has no business being thrown.

In the same vein, the coaches do not have WR's dropping the ball on easy catches. The coaches are NOT FUMBLING the ball.

Are the coaches without ANY blame??? Of course not. But you have this absurd belief that it's ALL on the coaches.

I suspect that you are not a parent. As I have wrote earlier today....

"Trying to shift the accountability onto coaches is lame.

Reminds me of when when a child gets crappy grades and tires to blame the teacher. I never bought that baloney when my kids tried it (rarely because of the reaction my wife and I had when they tried it ONCE) and certainly am not going to buy it for a quarter of a BILLION dollar QB."

[Mr. Pink]

It's a combination of JA Turnover Machine and the scheme/playcalling.

We ain't firing Turnover Machine, so we need to find a coordinator who will employ a philosophy and scheme that tailors to JAs strengths and weaknesses.

Is that Joe Brady? Not likely because he was the QB coach. But the move had to be made from Dorsey to try something new. And we'll likely see someone new next season.

[Historian]

Dan Orolovski just said it on the air.

Dorsey was doing the same thing week after week out of the same formations.

In other words, this offense had become predictable, and defenders were sitting on routes.

That's coaching.

[Mr. Pink]

Dan Orolovski just said it on the air.

Dorsey was doing the same thing week after week out of the same formations.

In other words, this offense had become predictable, and defenders were sitting on routes.

That's coaching.

Yeah it was obvious Dorsey was calling the same game every game regardless of opponent.

There no adjustments week to week based on opponent, let alone in game adjustments.

After a few weeks we became very predictable in what we were going to do out there and even the lesser teams, like the Broncos, were able to stifle the offense.

Combine the no adjustments or changes with the fact there were just some very stupid play calls in the gameplan on top of it. Like the 4th and 1 shogtun garbage.

[notacon]

It's a combination of JA Turnover Machine and the scheme/playcalling.

We ain't firing Turnover Machine, so we need to find a coordinator who will employ a philosophy and scheme that tailors to JAs strengths and weaknesses.

Is that Joe Brady? Not likely because he was the QB coach. But the move had to be made from Dorsey to try something new. And we'll likely see someone new next season.

That is a relatively fair assessment.

Of course, any "scheme/playcalling" is flushed down the toilet whenever Josh makes boneheaded decisions (with inexcusable TERRIBLE INT's and fumbles) that are more like what a raw rookie makes than a sixth year vet getting paid a quarter of a BILLION dollars.

[Typ0]

We ain't firing Turnover Machine.


But we aren't benching him the same way we will other players either. The system is unfairly BIAS by it's own administrators who continue to be crushing blows to the goals of the system.

[Mr. Pink]

But we aren't benching him the same way we will other players either. The system is unfairly BIAS by it's own administrators who continue to be crushing blows to the goals of the system.

Turnover Machine ain't getting benched because he makes an astronomical amount of money and the difference from Josh to Kyle Allen is a massive chasm as wide as the Grand Canyon.

[sukie]

Where is the record tying 3 drops in a half thread? 3 drops in first half . At least 2 on 3rd down. Possibly all 3.

the D knew what was coming with 45 left 1st half. Sideline. That I throw us on Josh. It being so well defended on Dorsey.

Gabe’s pass over the middle was perfect. But through his hands is not on Josh

yhr Fumble… Josh sloppy but also wouldn’t happen if under center.

[Bill Cody]

Dan Orolovski just said it on the air.

Dorsey was doing the same thing week after week out of the same formations.

In other words, this offense had become predictable, and defenders were sitting on routes.

That's coaching.

I agree. Jabrill Peppers said after the NE game that they had practiced the play that he picked off to open the game. Sounded like he knew what was coming.

[Woodman]

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Josh needs to loosen up on Saturday night.

[notacon]

This dude is still content to die on the “it’s not the coach’s fault!” hill. You’ll see what’s up with Josh Allen once we get a real offensive coach back in the building. Till then, we can take solace in the fact that both our recently fired coordinators are/will be working at Carl’s Jr, since everybody sees they are garbage


Go find another Josh Allen. You won’t find another QB like that in your lifetime—at least one willing to play in Buffalo.

It is a sin to waste his abilities with amateur coaching. Does he make mistakes, sometimes crippling ones? Yes, but nobody made more mistakes than Favre and he was a SB champ and a 3 time MVP. Get the right guy in here, not this ginger plank of wood that nobody respects anymore

I have been accused (grossly falsely) of being a "homer" (by people that apparently have no idea what "homer" or "homerism" actually means.

Your apparent refusal to pin much if ANY blame on Josh Allen is, in fact, much more "homerism" than I have every displayed.

The reactions of both Josh's terrible game and the firing of Dorsey are starting to flood in. Although the situation is very complex with no single answer the attempt to pin ALL or most of the blame on Ken Dorsey (while literally blaming the same for JOSH playing lkike ****) is way, WAY off base.

Here are some reactions....in a SI article titled "NFL World Roasts Josh Allen After His Awful Performance in Bills' Loss to Broncos (https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/11/14/bills-josh-allen-ripped-by-nfl-world-after-loss-to-broncos)"

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[notacon]

Here is Payton Manning geeting right to the ROOT of Josh's issues....he has not learned what he SHOULD have leaned when he was a freshman in college....

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“In my freshman year in college at Tennessee I threw an out route from the right hash to the far left side of the sideline and I would never make that throw in the NFL because you just don’t know how hard it is,” Manning said on ESPN2’s Manningcast. “You stop making these throws because, like I said, these defenders can cover a lot of ground. They can close gaps. I like boundary throws, short-side throws, especially on these deep out routes. Josh has got to learn from that one and has to come out and protect the ball better in the second half.”

Ouch!!!


Robert Saleh, who is presiding over an offense that is especially inept, with the Jets OC, Nathaniel Hackett, being criticized because of an offense in disarray. Irrespective of Zach Wilson’s poor play, Hackett’s play calling seems a LOT more terrible than Dorsey’s.

Here is what Saleh had to say about firing his OC…

“When the reasoning is just to give a spark, I don’t adhere to that,” Saleh said Monday. “I’ve never felt like making one guy the fall guy is going to make everyone around them better.”

Will Firing Dorsey, provide a spark??? No one has ANY idea.

Sure looks like (to some degree) scapegoating to me....despite the fact that Dorsey has not been a stellar OC. He was Josh's pick. Josh's man. Now Josh's too often terrible performance has cost him his job.

Maybe that will shake up Allen to look even more in the mirror. I have no idea.

I will repeat this....What I DID say is that Josh Allen is in the throes of a massive regression. HE is making the awful, inexcusable turnovers. HE is the one who can't even accomplish one of THE basic jobs of a QB....handing the ball off to a RB. HE is responsible for either missing his reads or just not caring and throwing the ball when and where it has no business being thrown.

In the same vein, the coaches do not have WR's dropping the ball on easy catches. The coaches are NOT FUMBLING the ball.

Are the coaches without ANY blame??? Of course not. But this absurd belief that it's ALL on the coaches is shortsighted.

Firing Dorsey was the nuclear option. Like if daddy is rich and is a huge donor to the private school his kid attends, and after the kid has **** the bed on test after test after test, forcing the school to CHANGE THE TEACHER!!!!

Maybe, the reaction would be...."holy ****....they fired my teacher because I ****ed up so may tests...I'm in trouble and I HAVE to perform better"

We'll see.

I believe that the issues with this team are multi-faceted. Varying degrees of responsibility and accountability. The apparent effort to ELEVATE the shortcomings with Dorsey are shortsighted and cover up what are readily apparent....Josh Allen's sometimes painfully terrible decisions being the leader in turnovers the past two years (again coaches do NOT cause turnovers...players do)....and the lacking effort and reliability of too many players.

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[acehole]

Thread is like a broken clock. It is right 2 x a season.

Cut it for a loss and move on.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d37472b4a6622d0b1fff46ad904f6896.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;"></iframe>

[notacon]

Thread is like a broken clock. It is right 2 x a season.

Cut it for a loss and move on.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.d37472b4a6622d0b1fff46ad904f6896.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: none;"></iframe>

WRONG!!!! It was right from the day it was started. Only a homer does not recognize that reality.

[Mr. Pink]

If there was ever a time to actually bench Josh, this would be the week to do it.

Go run heavy. Don't make mistakes.

And you can beat the Jests 14-10.

Send a message to Josh about his recent play while not throwing in the towel.

[notacon]

There is ZERO chance they bench Allen.

They sent him the message loud and clear by firing HIS handpicked guy.

Josh has too look in the mirror and play better. It's ALL on HIM. Not the coaches. He's in his sixth season. WAY past time to grow the **** up and embrace accountability with actions instead of words.

[sukie]

If there was ever a time to actually bench Josh, this would be the week to do it.

Go run heavy. Don't make mistakes.

And you can beat the Jests 14-10.

Send a message to Josh about his recent play while not throwing in the towel.
Not with Joe Brady debuting

[notacon]

Not with Joe Brady debuting

Of course. The idea of benching Allen in the first game of his new OC is absurdly ridiculous.

It would be like Trump telling the truth for a whole week. :rolleyes:

[Typ0]

They sent him the message loud and clear by firing HIS handpicked guy.


How can you see this but not understand they were holding Allen accountable?

[Woodman]

Josh has too look in the mirror and play better.

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[Mr. Pink]

All you've taught Allen is everyone but him is accountable for their actions.

But I get why you don't bench him, because again, his massive contract and disparity between him and Kyle Allen.

[YardRat]

You don't bench the most dangerous offensive weapon in the league, you work through it until it's obvious he's completely washed.

If McDermott ever does that prematurely he should be fired immediately.

[DetoxTent]

Josh certainly playing like a rookie NFL QB this season. All this thread does is prove that A) Ken Dorsey sucked as a QB coach, and Joe Brady too, because he hasn't corrected anything in Josh either. B) Jordan Palmer also did nothing to improve Josh. Why don't the Bills hire Peyton Manning if he's so great? He'd love to work with a Josh Allen, a tall, mobile kid with all the tools. Otherwise a poster here just keeps kicking a dead horse.

[Woodman]

Josh certainly playing like a rookie NFL QB this season. All this thread does is prove that A) Ken Dorsey sucked as a QB coach, and Joe Brady too, because he hasn't corrected anything in Josh either. B) Jordan Palmer also did nothing to improve Josh. Why don't the Bills hire Peyton Manning if he's so great? He'd love to work with a Josh Allen, a tall, mobile kid with all the tools. Otherwise a poster here just keeps kicking a dead horse.

No better student of the game than Peyton Manning. :scratch: $$$$$$$$$

[notacon]

How can you see this but not understand they were holding Allen accountable?


Uhhhhhh......what don't you understand when I wrote "They sent him the message loud and clear by firing HIS handpicked guy."

[notacon]

Josh certainly playing like a rookie NFL QB this season. All this thread does is prove that A) Ken Dorsey sucked as a QB coach, and Joe Brady too, because he hasn't corrected anything in Josh either. B) Jordan Palmer also did nothing to improve Josh. Why don't the Bills hire Peyton Manning if he's so great? He'd love to work with a Josh Allen, a tall, mobile kid with all the tools. Otherwise a poster here just keeps kicking a dead horse.

:rofl: All this post does is prove that you have little idea what you are talking about.

Saying that "...(Brady and Dorsey) hasn't corrected anything in Josh" is an infantile mindset. This is EXACTLY the mindset of what I have pointed out several times, with the analogy of one's child ****ting the bed on tests (after acing them most of the time) and the kid blaming the teacher for HIS shortcomings and HIS bad decisions.

[Typ0]

Uhhhhhh......what don't you understand when I wrote "They sent him the message loud and clear by firing HIS handpicked guy."

Yeah but somewhere else you are bantering about how Dorsey is a scapegoat for Allen which isn't the case. The fact is this is how they are holding Allen accountable and trying to get through his thick head. Dorsey is just collateral damage.

[notacon]

Yeah but somewhere else you are bantering about how Dorsey is a scapegoat for Allen which isn't the case. The fact is this is how they are holding Allen accountable and trying to get through his thick head. Dorsey is just collateral damage.
But, Dorsey IS a scapegoat. McD virtually admitted that in his presser when he said (https://theathletic.com/5064917/2023/11/15/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-ken-dorsey/) “We’re going in five days back into that locker room,” McDermott said. “I think it’s important those guys feel, ‘Hey something’s changed, and there’s something new that we can be excited about’ in terms of an opportunity to improve <style>@font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073732485 9 0 511 0;}@font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#222222;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.5pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Verdana; color:#222222; mso-font-kerning:0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style>"

Making sure the players "feel" "something has changed".....THAT is "scapegoating".

I never said the Bills are not holding Josh accountable.

[Typ0]

But, Dorsey IS a scapegoat. McD virtually admitted that in his presser when he said (https://theathletic.com/5064917/2023/11/15/buffalo-bills-sean-mcdermott-ken-dorsey/) “We’re going in five days back into that locker room,” McDermott said. “I think it’s important those guys feel, ‘Hey something’s changed, and there’s something new that we can be excited about’ in terms of an opportunity to improve <style>@font-face {font-family:"Cambria Math"; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:roman; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}@font-face {font-family:Calibri; panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-536859905 -1073732485 9 0 511 0;}@font-face {font-family:Verdana; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:swiss; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:-1593833729 1073750107 16 0 415 0;}p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-unhide:no; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; color:#222222;}.MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; font-size:10.5pt; mso-ansi-font-size:10.5pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.5pt; font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Verdana; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Verdana; color:#222222; mso-font-kerning:0pt; mso-ligatures:none;}div.WordSection1 {page:WordSection1;}</style>"

Making sure the players "feel" "something has changed".....THAT is "scapegoating".

I never said the Bills are not holding Josh accountable.

It's different than blame. It's devoid of blame. Considering it a method to hold Allen accountable furthers it from blame -- and if blame exists it falls on Allen. That is not scapegoating Dorsey. It's like saying dude the ball really bounced in a funky way around you this time and it really didn't go your way. That's the message it sends. McDermott is unsettling to me at times but he's a crafty guy and a good people manager. It's his people management skills that get him in trouble as a football coach though he can't seem to put his great management skills into action on a bone-crushing football team.

[notacon]

It's different than blame. It's devoid of blame. Considering it a method to hold Allen accountable furthers it from blame -- and if blame exists it falls on Allen. That is not scapegoating Dorsey. It's like saying dude the ball really bounced in a funky way around you this time and it really didn't go your way. That's the message it sends. McDermott is unsettling to me at times but he's a crafty guy and a good people manager. It's his people management skills that get him in trouble as a football coach though he can't seem to put his great management skills into action on a bone-crushing football team.


Parse all you want. I stand by what I wrote and you obviously can't refute it.

Dorsey was absolutely McD's scapegoat.

Anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty knows that if McD did not **** up the 3rd down passing play defensive call with an unnecessary (and rather stupid) zero blitz which (predictably) resulted in a DPI penalty that put Denver in winning FG range and then exponentially ****ed up having 12 men on the field that resulted an unforgivable loss....Dorsey would NOT have been fired.

THAT, my friend, is scapegoating.

[acehole]

Of course. The idea of benching Allen in the first game of his new OC is absurdly ridiculous.

It would be like Trump telling the truth for a whole week. :rolleyes:


John Allen is one of the best statical QB in the league.

TDS is real. Your should watch more football and less MSNBC.

I can only pray this thread dies.

[notacon]

John Allen is one of the best statical QB in the league.

TDS is real. Your should watch more football and less MSNBC.

I can only pray this thread dies.

First of all, the name of the Bills QB is JOSH Allen, NOT “John Allen”.

Secondly, the word you are trying to use is “statistical”, NOT “statical” which is a form of the word “static (https://www.thefreedictionary.com/statical)” which is defined as “having no motion; being at rest; quiescent. Fixed: stationary. Or in physics: relating to bodies at rest or forces that balance each other.

In British English the word “statical (https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/statical)” means “relating to statics, a branch of physical science examining how forces being about equilibrium or rest”…..or…”exhibiting little or no change, pertaining to a stable condition’.

Thirdly, your second ignorant sentence should read “YOU (not “your”) should watch more football and less MSNBC”.

Of course, your lame, ignorant attempt at trolling with an even more moronic attempt to bring politics into this (where it has literally zero appropriateness and makes even less sense) is a total fail as I do not gather my information from cable news and probably watch Fox “News” more than MSNBC because I AM interested to see the propaganda outfit and purveyors of Trump’s vicious lies (who has been found by a court of law to be a lying sacks of **** propaganda outfit and media arm of the GOP that nothing they say can believed...and they think their most dedicated and loyal viewers are stupid morons, not capable of recognizing lying propaganda) are feeding the gullible, amoral, MAGA cultists.

Yes, there is a “TDS” disease…which the MAGA morons worship a known (and deemed so in a court of law) rapist, fraudster and insurrectionist, credibly accused of 91 felonies as some kind of cult hero.

In any event, being one of the “best statistical QB(‘s) in the league” and $5 will get you a cup of Starbucks coffee and this season, five loses against (before the Jets game) only five wins.

The one statistical accomplishment that you choose to ignore that is the “best” in the league is TURNOVERS!!!! Which Josh Allen commits way, WAY too often.

The other fact that you choose to ignore (like the cultists ignore what a scummy racist, lying sack of ****, bigoted, traitorous, low-life con man their hero is) are the several times I have proclaimed and reveled in the fact that Josh Allen is an elite QB, and one of the best QB’s in the NFL.

The disappointment comes from his sometimes not playing up to his enormous potential and considerable ability. With additional predictions that if he DOES play up to his enormous potential and considerable ability the Bills can and will be carried on his back as they take their rightful place as legitimate contenders.

We saw that in the Miami and now Jets game that when he plays mistake-free football, the Bills look almost unstoppable. Even vs an elite defense like the Jets.

If you watched enough football (or had even a rudimentary understanding and appreciation of NFL football), and had even a scintilla or common sense or the intellectual capacity to comprehend this simple concept your contribution in this forum would have some merit.

This thread will “die” when Josh Allen plays more games like he did against Miami and this last Jets game (and most certainly NOT like the first Jets debacle) that he is capable of and of all the posters here, I am certainly one of the most optimistic that he will.


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[Chet]

^Cry for help, tbh.

I had you pegged from the beginning. Lonely and aging, so desperately looking for an audience to impart wisdom on, but nobody is buying what you’re selling. The fact you feel the need to keep doing it on here means those around you in the real world have already tuned you out.

Your latest crusade involves blaming everything on the one player who keeps this franchise relevant and competitive. Has he made mistakes and regressed this year? Yes, but whose fault is that? Daboll handed Dorsey a Ferrari and Dorsey has turned him into a Pinto.

Without him, this team drafts Top 10 for the foreseeable future. Without Dorsey we are 1-0 and scored 30 for the first time since October 1. Doesn’t mean we’re going to do **** the rest of the year, but definitely shows that losing Dorsey is a step in the right direction.

Want more proof, irregardless of how this season ends? Then go see if Dorsey’s next gig is either a HC or OC in the NFL. Same with Leslie Frazier as HC/DC. Realists can sniff out the losers and pretenders (Edmunds, Panther retreads, failed coordinators), while people like yourself back losers and losing arguments until you die on those hills.

[acehole]

Help help I am being attacked by an English major...

He brings politics into a thread and then laments being called out :):):):)

He is good statically but that is a problem? Holy cow.

The longer you go the more you reveal yourself not me.

I have never heard/seen a more overt narcissist in my life. Your response proves it. You are currently exposed. Biggest fear of a narsisist.

This thread is stupid. Sundays Game should have shut you up. You sound like Dr Smith from lost in Space. You are actually not that bright.

Josh Allen may have had some problems as does any QB. It does not prove we have a QB problem.

My advice to you is post quality over quantity.

Less "hey look at me I am smart I am smart and relevant."

Sad.

[notacon]

Help help I am being attacked by an English major...

He brings politics into a thread and then laments being called out :):):):)

He is good statically but that is a problem? Holy cow.

The longer you go the more you reveal yourself not me.

I have never heard/seen a more overt narcissist in my life. Your response proves it. You are currently exposed. Biggest fear of a narsisist.

This thread is stupid. Sundays Game should have shut you up. You sound like Dr Smith from lost in Space. You are actually not that bright.

Josh Allen may have had some problems as does any QB. It does not prove we have a QB problem.

My advice to you is post quality over quantity.

Less "hey look at me I am smart I am smart and relevant."

Sad.

Uhhhhh.....it does not take an "English major" to point out the sloppiness of your writing....any 6th grader (****....maybe even a 4th grader) could sniff out your mangling of the language.

[notacon]

^Cry for help, tbh.

I had you pegged from the beginning. Lonely and aging, so desperately looking for an audience to impart wisdom on, but nobody is buying what you’re selling. The fact you feel the need to keep doing it on here means those around you in the real world have already tuned you out.

Your latest crusade involves blaming everything on the one player who keeps this franchise relevant and competitive. Has he made mistakes and regressed this year? Yes, but whose fault is that? Daboll handed Dorsey a Ferrari and Dorsey has turned him into a Pinto.

Without him, this team drafts Top 10 for the foreseeable future. Without Dorsey we are 1-0 and scored 30 for the first time since October 1. Doesn’t mean we’re going to do **** the rest of the year, but definitely shows that losing Dorsey is a step in the right direction.

Want more proof, irregardless of how this season ends? Then go see if Dorsey’s next gig is either a HC or OC in the NFL. Same with Leslie Frazier as HC/DC. Realists can sniff out the losers and pretenders (Edmunds, Panther retreads, failed coordinators), while people like yourself back losers and losing arguments until you die on those hills.

:rofl: So....you have to resort to ad hominem personal attacks. How typical.

The fact is that I am NOT "blaming everything on the one player who keeps this franchise relevant and competitive". (Why do you feel the need to misrepresent (read: lie) about what I write???? Something you do way to often and shows signs of one with a weak argument because you can't refute what I actually write...so you MAKE **** UP and refute that). If you actually read my posts it is rather obvious.

What YOU are in fact ding is "blaming everything" on two coaches....the HC being the one who brought the franchise BACK from being non-competitive and irreverent. Oh, BTW, it must never be forgotten he ended "the drought" WITHOUT Josh Allen.

Of course as I said in my very fist post that started this thread, I not only comprehend that the Bills badly need Josh Allen (although the idea that "Without him, this team drafts Top 10 for the foreseeable future." is silly hyperbole and belied by the fact (once again I catch you not checking facts before you post absurd, false baloney) that during the drought years from 2000 to 2017, the Bills drafted in the top 10 only SIX times out of 16 years.)


This is what I wrote to start this thread after the awful Minny loss last season....

"Josh Allen is THE reason the Bills are considered a legitimate Super Bowl contender, and Josh Allen will be THE reason they don’t even get there, much less win it.

Yes, we all love Josh. He is an unicorn of QB’s and has all the traits we Bills fans have been begging for for decades.

Yes, his amazing performances have titillated the whole football ball world (even in defeat) and has won so many games by his awesomeness.

But, he is THE cause for the Bills three loses this year. You can try and blame other players….the coaches….the play calling….even the massive amount of injuries." (Gee....sound familiar???)


I then back up my premise with facts and evidence.

Anyone who refuses to recognize that Josh Allen has, in fact, regressed and has not come close to playing up to his potential (and ability) in every one of the five losses, and also in a at least one win vs NYG) is displaying what has been falsely thrown my way....PURE HOMERISM!!!!!


I have never said that Dorsey is some kind of savant OC. He's not. But, he is absolutely only a part of the issues the Bills had on offense this year. I opine a minority of the blame.

Even the sloppy misuse of the word "statical" instead of “statistical” contained a reality that the Bills offense overall, under Dorsey, did extremely well.


What ****ed it up was Josh being a turnover machines. Again, to ignore this GLARING reality and make Dorsey the scapegoat is homerism on steroids.

[Mr. Pink]

Here's why I will agree that Josh Allen won't get this team to a Super Bowl...

Allen has stretches where he plays really well. We saw one of those stretches in 2021. It still wasn't enough to get us passed KC.

More often than not though we don't get those stretches from Josh. He's forced to do more or thinks he has to do more. So he fails to protect the football along that process and we see Turnover Machine Allen.

Turnover Machine Allen won't win playoff games. You can't have your QB play like Allen has over the past month and beat good to great teams in this league.

And then everyone knows my feeling on Marty McDermott and his coaching abilities on top of that.

[Woodman]

And then everyone knows my feeling on Marty McDermott and his coaching abilities on top of that.

19988

McFly has been a problem.

[FanBack]

:rofl: So....you have to resort to ad hominem personal attacks. How typical.

The fact is that I am NOT "blaming everything on the one player who keeps this franchise relevant and competitive". (Why do you feel the need to misrepresent (read: lie) about what I write???? Something you do way to often and shows signs of one with a weak argument because you can't refute what I actually write...so you MAKE **** UP and refute that). If you actually read my posts it is rather obvious.

What YOU are in fact ding is "blaming everything" on two coaches....the HC being the one who brought the franchise BACK from being non-competitive and irreverent. Oh, BTW, it must never be forgotten he ended "the drought" WITHOUT Josh Allen.

Of course as I said in my very fist post that started this thread, I not only comprehend that the Bills badly need Josh Allen (although the idea that "Without him, this team drafts Top 10 for the foreseeable future." is silly hyperbole and belied by the fact (once again I catch you not checking facts before you post absurd, false baloney) that during the drought years from 2000 to 2017, the Bills drafted in the top 10 only SIX times out of 16 years.)


This is what I wrote to start this thread after the awful Minny loss last season....

"Josh Allen is THE reason the Bills are considered a legitimate Super Bowl contender, and Josh Allen will be THE reason they don’t even get there, much less win it.

Yes, we all love Josh. He is an unicorn of QB’s and has all the traits we Bills fans have been begging for for decades.

Yes, his amazing performances have titillated the whole football ball world (even in defeat) and has won so many games by his awesomeness.

But, he is THE cause for the Bills three loses this year. You can try and blame other players….the coaches….the play calling….even the massive amount of injuries." (Gee....sound familiar???)


I then back up my premise with facts and evidence.

Anyone who refuses to recognize that Josh Allen has, in fact, regressed and has not come close to playing up to his potential (and ability) in every one of the five losses, and also in a at least one win vs NYG) is displaying what has been falsely thrown my way....PURE HOMERISM!!!!!


I have never said that Dorsey is some kind of savant OC. He's not. But, he is absolutely only a part of the issues the Bills had on offense this year. I opine a minority of the blame.

Even the sloppy misuse of the word "statical" instead of “statistical” contained a reality that the Bills offense overall, under Dorsey, did extremely well.


What ****ed it up was Josh being a turnover machines. Again, to ignore this GLARING reality and make Dorsey the scapegoat is homerism on steroids.




1) MSNBC is Leftist State-controlled Propaganda; that is not a political statement, it is fact.

2) To point out obvious autocorrect-induced mistakes by Acehole's smartphone is condescending, at best. I never need to use such craven techniques to win my arguments; use me as an example to which to aspire.

3) I am going to diagram every sentence in this quoted post to highlight your grammatical inadequacies.


You may need counseling after I am finished.

[FanBack]

1) MSNBC is Leftist State-controlled Propaganda; that is not a political statement, it is fact.

2) To point out obvious autocorrect-induced mistakes by Acehole's smartphone is condescending, at best. I never need to use such craven techniques to win my arguments; use me as an example to which to aspire.

3) I am going to diagram every sentence in this quoted post to highlight your grammatical inadequacies.


You may need counseling after I am finished.

Please, someone get Notacon medical attention. I did not intend to deliver such a brutal beatdown.

[notacon]

Please, someone get Notacon medical attention. I did not intend to deliver such a brutal beatdown.

:rofl: Look in the mirror. Not only did you NOT "deliver such a brutal beatdown.", you just showed what happens to the MAGA brain....all mush all the time.

[notacon]

Here's why I will agree that Josh Allen won't get this team to a Super Bowl...

Allen has stretches where he plays really well. We saw one of those stretches in 2021. It still wasn't enough to get us passed KC.

More often than not though we don't get those stretches from Josh. He's forced to do more or thinks he has to do more. So he fails to protect the football along that process and we see Turnover Machine Allen.

Turnover Machine Allen won't win playoff games. You can't have your QB play like Allen has over the past month and beat good to great teams in this league.

And then everyone knows my feeling on Marty McDermott and his coaching abilities on top of that.

Quitter talk.


Just like when you said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264042-Is-Buffalo-properly-utilizing-TE-Dalton-Kincaid?p=5050590&viewfull=1#post5050590) that drafting Kincaid was a "wasted pick" and was "Just another drafting blunder by this front office who gets a pass because they took Allen."

Please. Go into a room with Chet and Opi (and a few others) and geek out on your quitter talk as you all sign up to the forum of the Bills' rivals. The Patriots forum would LOVE to have you as a member. :rofl:

[Mr. Pink]

Quitter talk.


Just like when you said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/264042-Is-Buffalo-properly-utilizing-TE-Dalton-Kincaid?p=5050590&viewfull=1#post5050590) that drafting Kincaid was a "wasted pick" and was "Just another drafting blunder by this front office who gets a pass because they took Allen."

Please. Go into a room with Chet and Opi (and a few others) and geek out on your quitter talk as you all sign up to the forum of the Bills' rivals. The Patriots forum would LOVE to have you as a member. :rofl:

Kincaid was a wasted pick with what we used to get him.

Sam LaPorta, the guy I pointed out at the time of the Kincaid pick, who went later in the draft without using as much draft capital to get him...is still outperforming Kincaid.

And we still have overpaid Dawson Knox who will be coming back shortly who will take away targets from Kincaid yet again. Which will continue for at least one more full season.

Call it quitter talk all you want, but our front office doesn't draft well...and we have a turnover machine at QB who even when he play at his absolute best, it still wasn't good enough to get out of the Divisional Round of the playoffs. When he doesn't play his best, we get lambasted in the Divisional Round instead.

Finally, Marty McDermott will never lead any team to a Super Bowl because he coaches the exact same way Marty Schottenheimer did. Scared. Conservative.

[FanBack]

:rofl: Look in the mirror. Not only did you NOT "deliver such a brutal beatdown.", you just showed what happens to the MAGA brain....all mush all the time.

Yes, 'Maga'. Thank you for the slur, Mr. Goebbels. Your dehumanizing of those with whom you may disagree informs me of who you are.

Now, you are free to post examples of MSNBC providing factual news without skewed commentary. This will prove your point. Sadly, you cannot. This post will rattle in your head as you try to enjoy the Thanksgiving holiday. Ownership of your mind makes me feel like a slum lord.

[DetoxTent]

^Cry for help, tbh.
I had you pegged from the beginning. Lonely and aging, so desperately looking for an audience to impart wisdom on, but nobody is buying what you’re selling. The fact you feel the need to keep doing it on here means those around you in the real world have already tuned you out.

Your latest crusade involves blaming everything on the one player who keeps this franchise relevant and competitive. Has he made mistakes and regressed this year? Yes, but whose fault is that? Daboll handed Dorsey a Ferrari and Dorsey has turned him into a Pinto.

Without him, this team drafts Top 10 for the foreseeable future. Without Dorsey we are 1-0 and scored 30 for the first time since October 1. Doesn’t mean we’re going to do **** the rest of the year, but definitely shows that losing Dorsey is a step in the right direction.

Want more proof, irregardless of how this season ends? Then go see if Dorsey’s next gig is either a HC or OC in the NFL. Same with Leslie Frazier as HC/DC. Realists can sniff out the losers and pretenders (Edmunds, Panther retreads, failed coordinators), while people like yourself back losers and losing arguments until you die on those hills.

Desperately seeking an audience and wrong about all he spews.

[acehole]

IF you starve a narcissists supply it will move on.

[Cntrygal]

ATTENTION NEWBIES (and old-timers)

DO NOT BRING POLITICS (or political slurs/insults) INTO THIS FORUM.

THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING.

[notacon]

Kincaid was a wasted pick with what we used to get him.

Sam LaPorta, the guy I pointed out at the time of the Kincaid pick, who went later in the draft without using as much draft capital to get him...is still outperforming Kincaid.

And we still have overpaid Dawson Knox who will be coming back shortly who will take away targets from Kincaid yet again. Which will continue for at least one more full season.

Call it quitter talk all you want, but our front office doesn't draft well...and we have a turnover machine at QB who even when he play at his absolute best, it still wasn't good enough to get out of the Divisional Round of the playoffs. When he doesn't play his best, we get lambasted in the Divisional Round instead.

Finally, Marty McDermott will never lead any team to a Super Bowl because he coaches the exact same way Marty Schottenheimer did. Scared. Conservative.
You are 100% wrong on this. Sorry, but you just are.

[notacon]

Yes, 'Maga'. Thank you for the slur, Mr. Goebbels. Your dehumanizing of those with whom you may disagree informs me of who you are.

Now, you are free to post examples of MSNBC providing factual news without skewed commentary. This will prove your point. Sadly, you cannot. This post will rattle in your head as you try to enjoy the Thanksgiving holiday. Ownership of your mind makes me feel like a slum lord.

Well, I will respect the warning from Cntrygal, but I will say this which is not about politics nor an insult.....just a factual correcting of a silly false attack.

I did not say anything about MSNBC except I don't get my information from cable news. So, you are putting up a lame strawman fail.

[Woodman]

Josh needs to trust himself and that other players deserve his confidence.
He needs to relax and we need to keep him clean.
He has to be given plays that spread the ball around.
Some great coaches from the past would script plays.
They would script them based on the opponents weaknesses we gotta do that as well.

The Buffalo Bills’ quarterback had three TD passes vs. the New York Jets, which gave him a league-leading total of 29 combined passing and rushing TDs for the season. Now that's more like it !!

[Mr. Pink]

You are 100% wrong on this. Sorry, but you just are.

We could have stayed where we were, not used extra draft capital, and got just as good of a player.

Not to mention TE wasn't a spot of need on this team to begin with when we drafted Kincaid.

[Dr. Lecter]

If you want to call Kincaid a luxury pick you can make that argument

calling him wasted?

Nothing but hyperbole, at best.
Aaron Maybin was a wasted pick.

Kincaid is far from wasted.

[Woodman]

Not to mention TE wasn't a spot of need on this team to begin with when we drafted Kincaid.
As things turned out it was a spot of need ........ this kid is a zone killer.

[notacon]

If you want to call Kincaid a luxury pick you can make that argument

calling him wasted?

Nothing but hyperbole, at best.
Aaron Maybin was a wasted pick.

Kincaid is far from wasted.

One has to have a very warped definition of "wasted".

Pink's comparison of LaPorta is strained at best too. Same with his assertion that LaPorta is "outperforming Kincaid".

LaPorta was selected only nine picks past Kincaid. Dalton fits the Bills perfectly with his elite hands. That has been realized with Kincaid's astounding 88% catch rate. LaPorta is well behind at 72.4%.

The other stats (so far) are almost identical.



<tbody>

Games
Targets
Catches
%
Yards
AVG/G


LaPorta
10
69
50
72.40%
492
49.2


Kincaid
10
58
51
88%
436
43.6

</tbody>
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The Bills desperately needed a viable pass catching threat. Once all the top WR's were drafted (all in a row from #20 to #23) the Bills made a brilliant pick trading up to keep him away from Dallas.

Kincaid is already an impact player and will only get better as time goes on. Same with #2 pick O'Cyrus Torrence.

Excellent drafting by Brandon Beane. :bf1: