Draft OL OL OL and what else?

[Woodman]

Seriously protect this guy and we can beat anybody in front of us !!

[kgun12]

Seriously protect this guy and we can beat anybody in front of us !!

OL, LB and Beane needs to go into free agency looking for the next safety tandem and a stud OL.

[Woodman]

OL, LB and Beane needs to go into free agency looking for the next safety tandem and a stud OL.

That's fair !!

Safety damn str8!!

[Saratoga Slim]

Don't forget the OL

[Saratoga Slim]

If Morse is fine, OL needs some tinkering. If this turns out to be the last concussion he's willing to get, then we have a complete rebuild on our hands.

[Bill Cody]

If Morse is fine, OL needs some tinkering. If this turns out to be the last concussion he's willing to get, then we have a complete rebuild on our hands.

willing or unwilling I don't think you can really count on him going forward

[cookie G]

willing or unwilling I don't think you can really count on him going forward

No, its time for someone to have a heart to heart with him, for his own good.

Is he important to the OL, and the offense as a whole? Oh yeah.

To close out the 1st half, the Bills had 3 consecutive drives of 75 yards or more.

He got injured early in the 3rd.

Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Strip sack fumble

Saffold is toward the end of his career, not the pass blocker he was. But still a great run blocker
Bates is no more than OK.

They are going to need 2 or 3 new quality starters on the inside.

I wouldn't mind a LT, and moving Dawkins to guard. But there is a good chance he sees it as a demotion.

[Oaf]

OL
Safety prospect
CB prospect

Then plug holes if we let people walk (Edmunds)

[sukie]

Strip sack was holding too long
Almost happened a short bit later.

plans taking way to long to develop down field. Watch Strip sack and the receivers are so far down the field (middle of field 10-15 yrds out was vacant)

wanna protect Josh? Shorten the damn game. Crosses, quick screens, RB dump offs. White crafty slot receiver…

speaking WR. I would go WR 1 Safety 2 then OL

assuming free agency for OL is there. Why WR? I wouldn’t pay a ton for Davis with his rookie contract expiring

[sukie]

Need DBs with speed to cover Waddle and Tyreek better.

[Forward_Lateral]

They've neglected the O-line long enough. Time to spend DAY 1 pick on O-line.

[sukie]

Free agency? Pick 32 OLine can be a project. Save draft picks for speed

[Mad Max]

Free agency? Pick 32 OLine can be a project. Save draft picks for speed

I would do both. There are some very good lineman coming out in free agency I’d scoop two FA if possible then draft a Center and Guard to groom by the 5th round.

Elgton Jenkins G Eagles GB (playing tonight)
Mike McGlinchey RT 49ers
Josh Jacobs RB Raiders

Those are my three offensive FA targets. All three and our offense gets bulletproofed.
If we don’t get Josh Jacobs I’d draft a big back. Zack Charbonnet UCLA is my top choice should be available in the 2nd (UCLA playing 12/30)or Chris Rodriguez UK.

The rest of the picks on D.

[Woodman]

They've neglected the O-line long enough. Time to spend DAY 1 pick on O-line.

I believe it is.

[Woodman]

I would do both. There are some very good lineman coming out in free agency I’d scoop two FA if possible then draft a Center and Guard to groom by the 5th round.

Elgton Jenkins G Eagles GB (playing tonight)
Mike McGlinchey RT 49ers
Josh Jacobs RB Raiders

Those are my three offensive FA targets. All three and our offense gets bulletproofed.
If we don’t get Josh Jacobs I’d draft a big back. Zack Charbonnet UCLA is my top choice should be available in the 2nd (UCLA playing 12/30)or Chris Rodriguez UK.

The rest of the picks on D.


If we can get those 3 it would be awesome !!

[Oaf]

If we can get those 3 it would be awesome !!

It would be awesome if we had $100M more cap spend bc that's what it'd take to sign those 3 !!

[Woodman]

Free agency? Pick 32 OLine can be a project. Save draft picks for speed


Free agency for sure !!!

I move up for the right player (prefer the best Center in the draft class) !!!

We win continuously if we protect 17.

Make the OL a primary strength it's "GAME OVER"

[Woodman]

It would be awesome if we had $100M more cap spend bc that's what it'd take to sign those 3 !!

I wonder if Josh would extend and restructure ..... you know to protect himself.

I sure the hell would.

Huge bonus for signing!

Anything is doable so let's quit ****ing around and get this stuff done!

[Mad Max]

It would be awesome if we had $100M more cap spend bc that's what it'd take to sign those 3 !!
We got money coming off the books from starters as well. Saffold, Singles and Edmunds (if they decide to let him go). The salary cap is going up around $12m, restructure a couple of guys…

[Woodman]

We got money coming off the books from starters as well. Saffold, Singles and Edmunds (if they decide to let him go). The salary cap is going up around $12m, restructure a couple of guys…

We will never punt again !!

:band: :band: :band:

45 pts. per !!!

[kgun12]

I would do both. There are some very good lineman coming out in free agency I’d scoop two FA if possible then draft a Center and Guard to groom by the 5th round.

Elgton Jenkins G Eagles GB (playing tonight)
Mike McGlinchey RT 49ers
Josh Jacobs RB Raiders

Those are my three offensive FA targets. All three and our offense gets bulletproofed.
If we don’t get Josh Jacobs I’d draft a big back. Zack Charbonnet UCLA is my top choice should be available in the 2nd (UCLA playing 12/30)or Chris Rodriguez UK.

The rest of the picks on D.

You get quality o-linemen you instantly make whoever is running the ball better.

[Woodman]

You get quality o-linemen you instantly make whoever is running the ball better.
Bingo Bango Bongo !!
A great OL makes things so much easier.
You just don't need the elite RB.
You'd have guys knocking down your door just to be a part of it.

[YardRat]

I'm pretty sure they are already over the cap for '23, with only 36 players signed.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2023/

[Mad Max]

I'm pretty sure they are already over the cap for '23, with only 36 players signed.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2023/

Who was our resident capologist? He used to do a great job

[Mad Max]

You get quality o-linemen you instantly make whoever is running the ball better.
you get a very strong OL AND a top quality RB and you start winning super bowls (plural)

cowpies with Emmett
Denver with TD

[sukie]

you get a very strong OL AND a top quality RB and you start winning super bowls (plural)

cowpies with Emmett
Denver with TD
WR needs to be addressed. Diggs needs relief.

[Mad Max]

WR needs to be addressed. Diggs needs relief.

Sure, but I would argue any upgrade at WR would be a luxury pickup as the Bills are already ranked 5th in passing…they’d most certainly be 1st with a good OL (much less great). Our OL ranks in the bottom 1/3.

I also still think Gabe and Khalil have room and will improve.

[acehole]

OL, LB and Beane needs to go into free agency looking for the next safety tandem and a stud OL.

Safety IOL T LB

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/mockdraft/

Have fun with simulater

[kgun12]

There will be some restructuring happening this off season for sure, and for a 11-3 team there is going to be a lot a holes to fill with only 36 players signed and being over the cap to start the off season. Beane will definitely earn his salary!

[DraftBoy]

They're likely going to look Safety or WR in Round 1 given how late the pick will be. Look for OL to be filled via mid-round picks and mid-level free agents. Beane's philosophy on this has been as clear as any position group.

[YardRat]

Who was our resident capologist? He used to do a great job

clumping platelets, now Clumpy.

[YardRat]

They're likely going to look Safety or WR in Round 1 given how late the pick will be. Look for OL to be filled via mid-round picks and mid-level free agents. Beane's philosophy on this has been as clear as any position group.

Which is unfortunate because it's somewhat probable the best center/guard prospect will likely be available.

[DraftBoy]

Which is unfortunate because it's somewhat probable the best center/guard prospect will likely be available.

Doesn't matter, Beane will go with his board valuation over all else.

I haven't looked too deep at prospects, but from what I've read it doesn't appear to be a really strong top end draft for interior OL options. Hell after Jones at UGA the entire OL class is kinda meh.

[Woodman]

Which is unfortunate because it's somewhat probable the best center/guard prospect will likely be available.

:shout:
Please get the best C/G and hopefully solidify the position for years to come !!

[YardRat]

Doesn't matter, Beane will go with his board valuation over all else.

I dunno, generally I agree with you but he went off-board last year and drafted need with a corner.


I haven't looked too deep at prospects, but from what I've read it doesn't appear to be a really strong top end draft for interior OL options. Hell after Jones at UGA the entire OL class is kinda meh.

I haven't started to look either.

[DraftBoy]

I dunno, generally I agree with you but he went off-board last year and drafted need with a corner.



I haven't started to look either.

I guess that depends on how much influence we think Beane had on the 2017 draft even though he wasn’t formally hired until a few days later.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm pretty sure they are already over the cap for '23, with only 36 players signed.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2023/
Means nothing

I restructured like 5 guys and got them to 20 million under

Don't put much stock into their current cap situation for next year.

[Saratoga Slim]

Strip sack was holding too long
Almost happened a short bit later.

plans taking way to long to develop down field. Watch Strip sack and the receivers are so far down the field (middle of field 10-15 yrds out was vacant)

wanna protect Josh? Shorten the damn game. Crosses, quick screens, RB dump offs. White crafty slot receiver…

speaking WR. I would go WR 1 Safety 2 then OL

assuming free agency for OL is there. Why WR? I wouldn’t pay a ton for Davis with his rookie contract expiring

Yeah I really don't know why our short game is so limited. Almost no slants or crossing routes ever. Three step drop and get the ball out. That's as effective as running in limiting defenses' ability to play two-high safety formations. You want more WRs in 1:1 situations on long routes, throw more shorter ones.

[Saratoga Slim]

WR needs to be addressed. Diggs needs relief.

Agree.

Interior OL (Spencer Brown probably gets another year, but RT is also a possibility)
WR
S
LB (Edmunds or new)

[Mace]

Need DBs with speed to cover Waddle and Tyreek better.

Not really. Scheme can be used to address Waddle and Hill, it's been proven. Can add all the speed in the world and if you leave them the middle of the field, it's pointless.

[kgun12]

Not really. Scheme can be used to address Waddle and Hill, it's been proven. Can add all the speed in the world and if you leave them the middle of the field, it's pointless.

Agreed

[Bill Cody]

No, its time for someone to have a heart to heart with him, for his own good.

Is he important to the OL, and the offense as a whole? Oh yeah.

To close out the 1st half, the Bills had 3 consecutive drives of 75 yards or more.

He got injured early in the 3rd.

Punt
Punt
Punt
Punt
Strip sack fumble

Saffold is toward the end of his career, not the pass blocker he was. But still a great run blocker
Bates is no more than OK.

They are going to need 2 or 3 new quality starters on the inside.

I wouldn't mind a LT, and moving Dawkins to guard. But there is a good chance he sees it as a demotion.

Dawkins would definitely see it as a demotion. Mostly because it would be. Not that this should stop the Bills from doing it under the right circumstances.
OL has to be a huge priority but it's a priority for a lot of other teams. Not that easy to find a starting LT drafting 32nd

[Mace]

I don't know what to make of the OL. End of last season, finally grudgingly playing Bates at LG was the solution. The OL played well. Ok, they didn't want to pay Williams tackle money. They should have historically learned this lesson already by shorting Incognito...but ok, you need a RG, and look for a legitimate C/G for the Morse eventuality. Nah, too simple, and the stated goal was protecting Allen. So reinvent the wheel and get Saffold, move Bates, collect another couple FA bodies, and now we need a guard, a center, and maybe a tackle because Brown is not looking robust.

I'm not keen on FA. They've been trying to patch with FA's for what, 5 years now ? Most people forget the parade of FA's trucked in to "protect" the franchise gem. That's fine, they were forgettable, and they solved nothing (besides Morse). They throw money at them and hope. They're not good at it. In fact the current batch proves they're really not good at it. I don't really see Kromer the OL coach having upgraded anything. Why is there no backup center to critically step in in front to the franchise precious ?

Ok, it is what it is. You have to go with Brown another year at RT. Dawkins at LT isn't debatable imho anyway. Needs an LG next to him for best results. That is still Bates, who did very well end of last season there, and it should have been a no brainer.

Saffold is not helping anything. Morse, if he thinks to come back, isn't reliable. They have no other guard unless Boettger steps up. Brown is looking iffy to me, like his body can't hold up at that weight.

So we're back to needing a C/G and tackle depth. I'd probably try to get a vet center, too late to start training one now, draft a guard who mauls for the right side, and take a hard look at Brown.

It's all pretty much the same result every year. Allen will not get younger. Needs a hard look.

[DraftBoy]

Dawkins would definitely see it as a demotion. Mostly because it would be. Not that this should stop the Bills from doing it under the right circumstances.
OL has to be a huge priority but it's a priority for a lot of other teams. Not that easy to find a starting LT drafting 32nd

Either play better or get to stepping. The days of over hyping average to moderately good players as something more needs to stop anyways.

[DraftBoy]

I don't know what to make of the OL. End of last season, finally grudgingly playing Bates at LG was the solution. The OL played well. Ok, they didn't want to pay Williams tackle money. They should have historically learned this lesson already by shorting Incognito...but ok, you need a RG, and look for a legitimate C/G for the Morse eventuality. Nah, too simple, and the stated goal was protecting Allen. So reinvent the wheel and get Saffold, move Bates, collect another couple FA bodies, and now we need a guard, a center, and maybe a tackle because Brown is not looking robust.

I'm not keen on FA. They've been trying to patch with FA's for what, 5 years now ? Most people forget the parade of FA's trucked in to "protect" the franchise gem. That's fine, they were forgettable, and they solved nothing (besides Morse). They throw money at them and hope. They're not good at it. In fact the current batch proves they're really not good at it. I don't really see Kromer the OL coach having upgraded anything. Why is there no backup center to critically step in in front to the franchise precious ?

Ok, it is what it is. You have to go with Brown another year at RT. Dawkins at LT isn't debatable imho anyway. Needs an LG next to him for best results. That is still Bates, who did very well end of last season there, and it should have been a no brainer.

Saffold is not helping anything. Morse, if he thinks to come back, isn't reliable. They have no other guard unless Boettger steps up. Brown is looking iffy to me, like his body can't hold up at that weight.

So we're back to needing a C/G and tackle depth. I'd probably try to get a vet center, too late to start training one now, draft a guard who mauls for the right side, and take a hard look at Brown.

It's all pretty much the same result every year. Allen will not get younger. Needs a hard look.

If we’re going into next year just handing the jobs to Dawkins and Brown then we have learned nothing.

[Mace]

If we’re going into next year just handing the jobs to Dawkins and Brown then we have learned nothing.

After 5 years I don't think we have, but I can't see how turning over more positions with available cap and draft picks is remotely feasible in front of a franchise precious QB with a shrinking contender window always on the burner. The time to do anything more about this was yesterday, and we have gone 5 years managing it.

[DraftBoy]

After 5 years I don't think we have, but I can't see how turning over more positions with available cap and draft picks is remotely feasible in front of a franchise precious QB with a shrinking contender window always on the burner. The time to do anything more about this was yesterday, and we have gone 5 years managing it.

Short of winning the title, that’s the job.

[Forward_Lateral]

Hire an Oline consultant. It’s Beanes biggest weakness.

[Mad Max]

Hire an Oline consultant. It’s Beanes biggest weakness.

OL/run game huge weaknesses that have gone unaddressed

(we’re top 10 in rushing only because of our QB constantly risking his well being and overall team success)

[Woodman]

You get quality o-linemen you instantly make whoever is running the ball better.

Does our GM know about this ?? :snicker:

[Mace]

Short of winning the title, that’s the job.


Not saying it isn't. I just don't see it as feasible or practical with any whiff on a player being potentially catastrophic to Allen's health. They have to start with what's workable at this stage imho. I feel that's Dawkins and Bates with Brown being serviceable.

While "just do it, because it's your job" might be simple, I don't see it being realistic in this scenario.

[Mad Max]

Does our GM know about this ?? :snicker:
You would think so…he was a first hand witness to Cam Newton’s slow decline into mediocrity from NFL MVP due to all the punishment he took from running the ball.

Josh and Cam are about the same size physically…and Cam broke permanently eventually. Josh will break as well sooner rather than later at which point his game will become a shell.

Does Josh like to run? Sure. But he does so because he has to in order for the team to win (they’d probably be a 6-7 win team this year without his runs) If we had a legitimate OL/running game he wouldn’t have to/be compelled to boogie down the field anywhere near as often.

[YardRat]

Means nothing

I restructured like 5 guys and got them to 20 million under

Don't put much stock into their current cap situation for next year.

Oh, it's do-able, and if anything Beane has shown he can manipulate the cap when he really wants to. But multiple high dollar free agents probably won't be in the cards again.

[Lexwhat]

Either play better or get to stepping. The days of over hyping average to moderately good players as something more needs to stop anyways.


They're likely going to look Safety or WR in Round 1 given how late the pick will be. Look for OL to be filled via mid-round picks and mid-level free agents. Beane's philosophy on this has been as clear as any position group.


Not sure these 2 approaches go hand-in-hand, and almost contradict each other?

With a team like ours and a QB like Josh Allen, OLine players like Dion Dawkins and the "moderately good" Ryan Bates are perfect (Translation: We don't need high priced FA superstars). If we had another Ryan Bates (young, steady, reliable, affordable), we would be in great shape. I'm all in favor if we can find them early in the Draft.

Saffold is a role player at this point, and should be re-signed to a Vet minimum contract next season.

Spencer Brown is on a Rookie deal so he won't get cut, but I don't believe he is the long-term starter at RT. We need to bring in competition there and a legitimate swing tackle.

I have a feeling Mitch Morse will retire no later than the end of next year.

Look at the way the Chiefs have built their OLine. Huge money spent from left to right to protect Mahomes at the expense of their Defense and skill players (Tyreek Hill). Mahomes is the type of player that needs a wall, but Josh Allen has shown to be successful with less. Beane can focus his spending on the Defense because of it, and really the only Offensive player outside of Josh Allen that's irreplaceable is Stefon Diggs.

[DraftBoy]

Not saying it isn't. I just don't see it as feasible or practical with any whiff on a player being potentially catastrophic to Allen's health. They have to start with what's workable at this stage imho. I feel that's Dawkins and Bates with Brown being serviceable.

While "just do it, because it's your job" might be simple, I don't see it being realistic in this scenario.

It may not be practical, but it is the reality. Any player can whiff no matter how good or bad. That's just the inherent risk.

Serviceable doesn't work if you're trying to win titles. You have one serviceable lineman while the others are all good and help cover then that's one thing, but to have the majority of your OL only serviceable? That's not likely to win you a title and that shouldn't be acceptable.

The Bills for too long settled on serviceable as acceptable if we either knew or liked the player. We have to get out of that mindset if we hope to truly win a title. We have a generational QB in Allen who demands the defenses attention at all times and we can't be bothered to put together a good OL that can pass block and road grade for the running game? That's ridiculous and it falls on Beane squarely.

If the Bills don't win the Super Bowl this year then they need to take a very long look at the offense and begin to replace several starters and depth components. We should already be looking at a RB1, LT, RT, LG, WR2, and TE2 without even getting into the depth challenges we seemingly have across the entire OL.

[DraftBoy]

Not sure these 2 approaches go hand-in-hand, and almost contradict each other?

With a team like ours and a QB like Josh Allen, OLine players like Dion Dawkins and the "moderately good" Ryan Bates are perfect (Translation: We don't need high priced FA superstars). If we had another Ryan Bates (young, steady, reliable, affordable), we would be in great shape. I'm all in favor if we can find them early in the Draft.

Saffold is a role player at this point, and should be re-signed to a Vet minimum contract next season.

Spencer Brown is on a Rookie deal so he won't get cut, but I don't believe he is the long-term starter at RT. We need to bring in competition there and a legitimate swing tackle.

I have a feeling Mitch Morse will retire no later than the end of next year.

Look at the way the Chiefs have built their OLine. Huge money spent from left to right to protect Mahomes at the expense of their Defense and skill players (Tyreek Hill). Mahomes is the type of player that needs a wall, but Josh Allen has shown to be successful with less. Beane can focus his spending on the Defense because of it, and really the only Offensive player outside of Josh Allen that's irreplaceable is Stefon Diggs.

Nothing about this OL is perfect, it's not even close.

Dawkins isn't playing anything like the franchise LT many fans here hoped he was, his entire season has been a pretty significant disappointment.

Saffold is a starter for this team, I wish he was just a role player. That's an issue.

I agree, I think Morse is done due to concussion issues.

Bates is probably best as the top reserve option at all three positions. He's getting beaten inside on leverage and the road grading ability he showed last year doesn't seem to be there this year. He was excellent at clearing out holes last year and getting to the 2nd level, but that's not happening now.

Brown is a mess right now at RT. His footwork is all messed up and I think he's probably in his own head a bit. He's seemingly good for two penalties a game right now and at least a couple of missed blocks. Sadly he's the best option we have at RT though.

Right now you have Saffold ($6.25), Quessenberry ($1.75), Van Roten ($1.27), Boettger ($1.19), Hart ($1.19), and Murray ($1.12) all projected as free agents. If you let them all walk that's approximately $12.77M based on 2022 AAV from Spotrac. If Morse retires then that's an additional $11.25M coming off the cap based on his current contract. You also have Dawkins who is scheduled to have a cap hit of $14.87 next year that would certainly be a likely target for restructuring to free up more money.

And nobody is calling for superstars to be used to replace these guys, but there are better options available in the coming free agent class that aren't considered to be the top guy. Some of the players I'd target and their projected per year market value per Spotrac are:
LG Risner - DEN - $9.5 Million
LG Powers - BAL - No Projected Market Value
OC Bradbury - MIN - $11.9 Million
OC Bozeman - CAR - $12 Million
OC Pocic - CLE - $7.2 Million
OC/OG Brown - DET - $10.8 Million
RG Jenkins - GB - $7.1 Million
RT Taylor - JAX - $5.8 Million

So would $20+ million be enough to retool the OL with some of the guys I referenced above? I think you could target Pocic, Taylor, and Jenkins as options that wouldn't cost you superstar money and would also represent upgrades at all three positions.

You'd go from Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown to Dawkins-Bates-Pocic-Jenkins-Taylor which I think would represent a significant upgrade.

[DraftBoy]

Nothing about this OL is perfect, it's not even close.

Dawkins isn't playing anything like the franchise LT many fans here hoped he was, his entire season has been a pretty significant disappointment.

Saffold is a starter for this team, I wish he was just a role player. That's an issue.

I agree, I think Morse is done due to concussion issues.

Bates is probably best as the top reserve option at all three positions. He's getting beaten inside on leverage and the road grading ability he showed last year doesn't seem to be there this year. He was excellent at clearing out holes last year and getting to the 2nd level, but that's not happening now.

Brown is a mess right now at RT. His footwork is all messed up and I think he's probably in his own head a bit. He's seemingly good for two penalties a game right now and at least a couple of missed blocks. Sadly he's the best option we have at RT though.

Right now you have Saffold ($6.25), Quessenberry ($1.75), Van Roten ($1.27), Boettger ($1.19), Hart ($1.19), and Murray ($1.12) all projected as free agents. If you let them all walk that's approximately $12.77M based on 2022 AAV from Spotrac. If Morse retires then that's an additional $11.25M coming off the cap based on his current contract. You also have Dawkins who is scheduled to have a cap hit of $14.87 next year that would certainly be a likely target for restructuring to free up more money.

And nobody is calling for superstars to be used to replace these guys, but there are better options available in the coming free agent class that aren't considered to be the top guy. Some of the players I'd target and their projected per year market value per Spotrac are:
LG Risner - DEN - $9.5 Million
LG Powers - BAL - No Projected Market Value
OC Bradbury - MIN - $11.9 Million
OC Bozeman - CAR - $12 Million
OC Pocic - CLE - $7.2 Million
OC/OG Brown - DET - $10.8 Million
RG Jenkins - GB - $7.1 Million
RT Taylor - JAX - $5.8 Million

So would $20+ million be enough to retool the OL with some of the guys I referenced above? I think you could target Pocic, Taylor, and Jenkins as options that wouldn't cost you superstar money and would also represent upgrades at all three positions.

You'd go from Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown to Dawkins-Bates-Pocic-Jenkins-Taylor which I think would represent a significant upgrade.

And I fully acknowledge that those market value projections aren't worth much right now, I was just using them to illustrate the thought process about how you could go about changing the OL up significantly.

[YardRat]

Just an observation...the three best teams in the AFC are Buffalo, Kansas City and Cincinnati.

We think our oline is sub-par and needs significant upgrades.

KC, after losing the Super Bowl and a second straight appearance thought the same and re-tooled their line with two draft picks and three free agents. They went from Fischer-Osemele-Reiter-Wylie-Schwartz to Brown-Thuney-Humphrey-Smith-Niang. In one season. And still went to the AFC championship game.

Cincinnati, after losing the Super Bowl, thought the same and re-tooled their oline. They went from Williams-Spain-Hopkins-Sua-Filo-Reiff to Williams-Volson-Karras-Cappa-Collins (mostly the free agent route, already had young Williams for a season) and are still in contention for the #1 seed.

1--it can be done, and without sacrificing results.
2--not sure either of the above examples = significant upgrades for KC or Cinci yet, I don't watch either that closely.
3--maybe I need to re-think what an offensive line is supposed to be in the contemporary NFL and even though there will always be exceptions (like the Eagles) and maybe our current state is actually closer to the norm than I would like to accept.

[Forward_Lateral]

Nothing about this OL is perfect, it's not even close.

Dawkins isn't playing anything like the franchise LT many fans here hoped he was, his entire season has been a pretty significant disappointment.

Saffold is a starter for this team, I wish he was just a role player. That's an issue.

I agree, I think Morse is done due to concussion issues.

Bates is probably best as the top reserve option at all three positions. He's getting beaten inside on leverage and the road grading ability he showed last year doesn't seem to be there this year. He was excellent at clearing out holes last year and getting to the 2nd level, but that's not happening now.

Brown is a mess right now at RT. His footwork is all messed up and I think he's probably in his own head a bit. He's seemingly good for two penalties a game right now and at least a couple of missed blocks. Sadly he's the best option we have at RT though.

Right now you have Saffold ($6.25), Quessenberry ($1.75), Van Roten ($1.27), Boettger ($1.19), Hart ($1.19), and Murray ($1.12) all projected as free agents. If you let them all walk that's approximately $12.77M based on 2022 AAV from Spotrac. If Morse retires then that's an additional $11.25M coming off the cap based on his current contract. You also have Dawkins who is scheduled to have a cap hit of $14.87 next year that would certainly be a likely target for restructuring to free up more money.

And nobody is calling for superstars to be used to replace these guys, but there are better options available in the coming free agent class that aren't considered to be the top guy. Some of the players I'd target and their projected per year market value per Spotrac are:
LG Risner - DEN - $9.5 Million
LG Powers - BAL - No Projected Market Value
OC Bradbury - MIN - $11.9 Million
OC Bozeman - CAR - $12 Million
OC Pocic - CLE - $7.2 Million
OC/OG Brown - DET - $10.8 Million
RG Jenkins - GB - $7.1 Million
RT Taylor - JAX - $5.8 Million

So would $20+ million be enough to retool the OL with some of the guys I referenced above? I think you could target Pocic, Taylor, and Jenkins as options that wouldn't cost you superstar money and would also represent upgrades at all three positions.

You'd go from Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown to Dawkins-Bates-Pocic-Jenkins-Taylor which I think would represent a significant upgrade.

Precisely why they need to start building through the draft. With Allen's contract, Diggs' and a few other big ones, they won't be able to afford to just go out and buy an O-line.

There's some really good talent at Center this draft, I really hope they don't skip out. I'd love to see them trade out of the 1st with someone like Seattle, who has multiple 2nds.

[Lexwhat]

Just an observation...the three best teams in the AFC are Buffalo, Kansas City and Cincinnati.

We think our oline is sub-par and needs significant upgrades.

KC, after losing the Super Bowl and a second straight appearance thought the same and re-tooled their line with two draft picks and three free agents. They went from Fischer-Osemele-Reiter-Wylie-Schwartz to Brown-Thuney-Humphrey-Smith-Niang. In one season. And still went to the AFC championship game.

Cincinnati, after losing the Super Bowl, thought the same and re-tooled their oline. They went from Williams-Spain-Hopkins-Sua-Filo-Reiff to Williams-Volson-Karras-Cappa-Collins (mostly the free agent route, already had young Williams for a season) and are still in contention for the #1 seed.

1--it can be done, and without sacrificing results.
2--not sure either of the above examples = significant upgrades for KC or Cinci yet, I don't watch either that closely.
3--maybe I need to re-think what an offensive line is supposed to be in the contemporary NFL and even though there will always be exceptions (like the Eagles) and maybe our current state is actually closer to the norm than I would like to accept.

The Chiefs don't have a true WR1, and that was a business decision they made to invest heavily in their OLine instead of paying Tyreek Hill. Obviously they have Kelce, who is a generational TE, and lucky for them he is a lot cheaper than the current WR1 market. They also have Andy Reid - who has designed an Offense which is creative and spreads the ball around, and Mahomes executes that perfectly. However, IMO, their approach to the OLine is not sustainable unless they continue to get stopgaps on Defense and WR.

Creed Humphrey (Center) and Trey Smith (Guard) will soon command a lot of money once their rookie deals expire, and they will surely lose one of them. They are paying their Guard Thuney $16 million a year. They also traded for Orlando Brown Jr, who basically wants to be the highest paid LT in the game (over $20 million a year), and he's not even a top 5 LT. We will see what happens to the Brown situation this off-season.

As for the Bengals, they are extremely lucky to have Jamaar Chase, Tee Higgins, and Joe Burrow all on their Rookie contracts. I imagine they will pay Chase and Burrow top dollar, which will significantly impact the rest of their team.

My biggest gripe with Beane is his inability to draft Interior OLine in the middle of the draft.

[Forward_Lateral]

Restructuring Josh's contract in 2023 gives the Bills roughly 20 million in space alone. Just an FYI

[Lexwhat]

Nothing about this OL is perfect, it's not even close.

Dawkins isn't playing anything like the franchise LT many fans here hoped he was, his entire season has been a pretty significant disappointment.

Saffold is a starter for this team, I wish he was just a role player. That's an issue.

I agree, I think Morse is done due to concussion issues.

Bates is probably best as the top reserve option at all three positions. He's getting beaten inside on leverage and the road grading ability he showed last year doesn't seem to be there this year. He was excellent at clearing out holes last year and getting to the 2nd level, but that's not happening now.

Brown is a mess right now at RT. His footwork is all messed up and I think he's probably in his own head a bit. He's seemingly good for two penalties a game right now and at least a couple of missed blocks. Sadly he's the best option we have at RT though.

Right now you have Saffold ($6.25), Quessenberry ($1.75), Van Roten ($1.27), Boettger ($1.19), Hart ($1.19), and Murray ($1.12) all projected as free agents. If you let them all walk that's approximately $12.77M based on 2022 AAV from Spotrac. If Morse retires then that's an additional $11.25M coming off the cap based on his current contract. You also have Dawkins who is scheduled to have a cap hit of $14.87 next year that would certainly be a likely target for restructuring to free up more money.

And nobody is calling for superstars to be used to replace these guys, but there are better options available in the coming free agent class that aren't considered to be the top guy. Some of the players I'd target and their projected per year market value per Spotrac are:
LG Risner - DEN - $9.5 Million
LG Powers - BAL - No Projected Market Value
OC Bradbury - MIN - $11.9 Million
OC Bozeman - CAR - $12 Million
OC Pocic - CLE - $7.2 Million
OC/OG Brown - DET - $10.8 Million
RG Jenkins - GB - $7.1 Million
RT Taylor - JAX - $5.8 Million

So would $20+ million be enough to retool the OL with some of the guys I referenced above? I think you could target Pocic, Taylor, and Jenkins as options that wouldn't cost you superstar money and would also represent upgrades at all three positions.

You'd go from Dawkins-Saffold-Morse-Bates-Brown to Dawkins-Bates-Pocic-Jenkins-Taylor which I think would represent a significant upgrade.


I am not against this approach, per se, but any good OLine should have at least 2-3 productive starters on their Rookie deals. We have MAYBE ONE with Spencer Brown. That is why I love the Bates deal, because he is a capable starter that doesn't cost much. Perhaps Bates just needs to move back to the Left side next to Dawkins (where he was most productive), since Saffold hasn't worked out as hoped. Ideally, Saffold is backup next season, while Spencer Brown can get 1 more year to prove himself (unless we draft his replacement).

Of course, much of this depends on what's actually available once we draft, and I don't want Beane "reaching" with his 1st/2nd round picks just to fill a hole. Those picks should be best player available at any position except QB... If you ask me, if a good OLine prospect is available, I would rather draft OLine early than WR or Safety (unless a special player is sitting there).

Mahomes has made a living with a bunch of WR2s this season (with the unique weapon of Kelce of course), and Allen should be able to do the same as long as we have Diggs.

Our Safety position is in flux, but if Hyde is healthy again, I would extend him 1 year and extend Poyer 2 years. I think paying Poyer is better than paying $10 to $12 million a year for a Guard in free agency. They way they are locked up together. I also wonder if Benford has any possibility of moving to Safety if Elam / White are the CB starters, but that's just wild speculation on my part.

The other reason I don't think we have ~$10 million to spend at the Guard position is because of Tremaine Edmunds and Ed Oliver. You won't as easily find players like that late in the draft, and, when healthy, Edmunds and Oliver are instrumental to our Defense that we have spent years developing. With the Diggs, Josh Allen, Tre White, and Von Miller contracts, I think Beane has to maintain the Defense and scout heavily for all OLine positions in the Draft.

[Forward_Lateral]

I am not against this approach, per se, but any good OLine should have at least 2-3 productive starters on their Rookie deals. That is why I love the Bates deal, because he is a capable starter that doesn't cost much. Perhaps Bates just needs to move back to the Left side next to Dawkins (where he was most productive), since Saffold hasn't worked out as hoped. Ideally, Saffold is backup next season, while Spencer Brown can get 1 more year to prove himself (unless we draft his replacement).

Of course, much of this depends on what's actually available once we draft, and I don't want Beane "reaching" with his 1st/2nd round picks just to fill a hole. Those picks should be best player available at any position except QB... If you ask me, if a good OLine prospect is available, I would rather draft OLine early than WR or Safety (unless a special player is sitting there).

Mahomes has made a living with a bunch of WR2s this season (with the unique weapon of Kelce of course), and Allen should be able to do the same as long as we have Diggs.

Our Safety position is in flux, but if Hyde is healthy again, I would extend him 1 year and extend Poyer 2 years. I think paying Poyer is better than paying $10 to $12 million a year for a Guard in free agency. They way they are locked up together. I also wonder if Benford has any possibility of moving to Safety if Elam / White are the CB starters, but that's just wild speculation on my part.

The other reason I don't think we have ~$10 million to spend at the Guard position is because of Tremaine Edmunds and Ed Oliver. You won't as easily find players like that late in the draft, and, when healthy, Edmunds and Oliver are instrumental to our Defense that we have spent years developing. With the Diggs, Josh Allen, Tre White, and Von Miller contracts, I think Beane has to maintain the Defense and scout heavily for all OLine positions in the Draft.
Hyde is under contract next season. No need to extend him beyond that.

[Lexwhat]

Hyde is under contract next season. No need to extend him beyond that.

Yes, which is why I suggested 1 year extra for him and 2 for Poyer - to keep them both together the next 2 seasons. They are the rocks of our defense.

[Forward_Lateral]

Yes, which is why I suggested 1 year extra for him and 2 for Poyer - to keep them both together the next 2 seasons. They are the rocks of our defense.

I guess it would depend on the cost, I'm not completely against it, but I'd also be very worried about giving them more than 1 year deals, based on their injuries this year. Hyde, especially.

[DraftBoy]

With Hyde coming back and White getting back to full strength I’d let Poyer walk, draft a safety high, and invest the savings elsewhere.

[Mace]

It may not be practical, but it is the reality. Any player can whiff no matter how good or bad. That's just the inherent risk.

Serviceable doesn't work if you're trying to win titles. You have one serviceable lineman while the others are all good and help cover then that's one thing, but to have the majority of your OL only serviceable? That's not likely to win you a title and that shouldn't be acceptable.

The Bills for too long settled on serviceable as acceptable if we either knew or liked the player. We have to get out of that mindset if we hope to truly win a title. We have a generational QB in Allen who demands the defenses attention at all times and we can't be bothered to put together a good OL that can pass block and road grade for the running game? That's ridiculous and it falls on Beane squarely.

If the Bills don't win the Super Bowl this year then they need to take a very long look at the offense and begin to replace several starters and depth components. We should already be looking at a RB1, LT, RT, LG, WR2, and TE2 without even getting into the depth challenges we seemingly have across the entire OL.

I respect your opinion but still just don't think it's reasonable or practical this coming year. I see LT and LG solvable with Dawkins and Bates, RT usable with Brown, and RG as critical along with center, and I believe that's the best they can be expected to do with other needs apparent.

[DraftBoy]

I respect your opinion but still just don't think it's reasonable or practical this coming year. I see LT and LG solvable with Dawkins and Bates, RT usable with Brown, and RG as critical along with center, and I believe that's the best they can be expected to do with other needs apparent.

Then I fear the best we can expect is to continue to fall short.

[Mace]

Then I fear the best we can expect is to continue to fall short.

Fair enough. No argument.

[Woodman]

With Hyde coming back and White getting back to full strength I’d let Poyer walk, draft a safety high, and invest the savings elsewhere.

Are we sure about Hyde?

That would be great!!

[Mad Max]

Are we sure about Hyde?

That would be great!!

He meant next year. Still in contract.
I got a feeling though if the Bills get the the AFCCG Hyde will be back this year

[Woodman]

He meant next year. Still in contract.
I got a feeling though if the Bills get the the AFCCG Hyde will be back this year

That's my hope as well!

Anything is possible :gobills:

[YardRat]

My biggest gripe with Beane is his inability to draft Interior OLine in the middle of the draft.

It's kind of funny every season there are a plethora of mock drafts from amateurs on message boards that are able to identify guys that can come in and play and the team doesn't. But obviously that's more indicative of where Beane's priorities lie, he like to load up on skill positions instead.

[Woodman]

We are a bunch of smart mother****ers that's for sure. :snicker:

[notacon]

It's kind of funny every season there are a plethora of mock drafts from amateurs on message boards that are able to identify guys that can come in and play and the team doesn't. But obviously that's more indicative of where Beane's priorities lie, he like to load up on skill positions instead.

Except that’s a lame and mostly false exaggeration. The draft is 7 rounds long, and some of these “amateurs on message boards” may have a good pick or two, but, they whiff a LOT more than NFL Gm’s do.

In fact, last year, a lot of these “amateurs on message boards”, including YOU, were pimping LB Devin Lloyd. YOU were opining (because of your lunatic hatred of one Bills player) that the Bills should waste their first round pick on this guy.

It’s very funny that his name showed up on a article named....

NFL Teams Already Regretting Their 2022 NFL Draft Picks (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10059289-nfl-teams-already-regretting-their-2022-nfl-draft-picks)




Jacksonville Jaguars: LB Devin Lloyd


The Jacksonville Jaguars made what seemed to be a safe pick by taking steady linebacker Devin Lloyd at No. 27 in this year's draft.
While Lloyd was relatively old for a first-round prospect and is now 24, he showed plenty of versatility at Utah by defending the run and rushing the passer.

Those skills have not translated to the NFL level. Lloyd has been exposed by many of the Jaguars' opponents this year, and it's going to be tough for him to develop into the three-down linebacker he was projected to become if he doesn't show some significant improvement.

Lloyd's most glaring weaknesses are his inability to consistently tackle—he's missed a concerning 10.9 percent (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LloyDe00.htm#detailed_defense) of his tackles this year—and poor coverage abilities. He's allowed (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LloyDe00.htm) 52 of the 66 passes thrown his way to be completed for 553 yards and four touchdowns.

Jacksonville attempted to hide Lloyd's inadequacies by reducing his playing time. He logged nearly every defensive snap during the first half of the season but saw less than a 40 percent snap share in Weeks 12 and 13.

While the team began relying on Lloyd again as an every-down defender starting in Week 14, he hasn't exactly warranted the workload increase. In the last two games (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LloyDe00/gamelog/2022/advanced/), Lloyd missed three tackles while allowing 10 completions on 12 targets to go for 111 yards. He also gave up a passing touchdown in each of those contests.

Lloyd's pass-rushing attempts haven't borne any fruit either, as his 35 blitzes (https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LloyDe00.htm#detailed_defense) have only resulted in three pressures, two knockdowns and one hurry. He's yet to record a sack in the NFL.

With a PFF (https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/devin-lloyd/58238) grade of only 47.4, Lloyd looks like he is on his way to becoming one of the bigger busts in this year's class.

[Mace]

It's kind of funny every season there are a plethora of mock drafts from amateurs on message boards that are able to identify guys that can come in and play and the team doesn't. But obviously that's more indicative of where Beane's priorities lie, he like to load up on skill positions instead.

I've kind of wondered if it's not more than that. They even struggle to identify vet FA OL. They never even wanted to use Bates as a starter because he backed up too many positions. I'm great with the flexibility thing.....for a few backups, not everyone where it becomes a firedrill of people moving everywhere to cover one spot. When that happens, imho, you go from 4 strong positions left to a diluted 5.

Can't tell if they can adequately scout OL, or use them properly if they did. Beane could be using his best info, which is deficient, but it's up to him anyway to resolve it, like it's up to McDermott to chaperone what his OL coaches are doing with who and where.

Just strongly feel this many years into a program, they shouldn't be needing to scrape for vet fa's every year. Strikes me as a glaring weakpoint.

[Woodman]

Hyde is under contract next season. No need to extend him beyond that.

I would play it by ear with him.

Gotta draft a safety IMO as well as a center.

[Mace]

I would play it by ear with him.

Gotta draft a safety IMO as well as a center.

They should have had a safety prepped by now too, given the criticality of it in their particular scheme, imho.

[Woodman]

They should have had a safety prepped by now too, given the criticality of it in their particular scheme, imho.

100% correct ......... I do like Hamlin.

We do need more though.

[DraftBoy]

Jenkins just signed a four year extension with Green Bay, so he’s off the list.