Sean McDungy

[Chet]

His teams are too stupid and lack killer instinct, much like those uber-talented Bucs teams that always underachieved till Gruden had to show them how it’s done.

I love the culture he built, ending the drought, and bringing respect back to the franchise…but his teams are always outschemed and out-physicalled. Time to get a closer, and it has to be an offensive guy

[Novacane]

I agree he's nothing special. He owes his success to #17. He's not going anywhere though.

[sahlensguy]

No argument from me.

[TacklingDummy]

I agree he's nothing special. He owes his success to #17. He's not going anywhere though.

Levy did Kelly, Belicheck did Brady, Dungy did Manning, Etc…

[Novacane]

Levy did Kelly, Belicheck did Brady, Dungy did Manning, Etc…

Yep. Great players make coaches. Not the other way around. All those guys have in common is they failed until they got a HOF QB. McD was lucky to get one his first go around.

[kgun12]

Let’s give McBeane a little credit, they did select Allen. Remember half the board didn’t even want him.

[Novacane]

Let’s give McBeane a little credit, they did select Allen. Remember half the board didn’t even want him.

Fair. I'm not saying he sucks. I just think he's nothing special. At this level most know how to coach. It's having great players that set them apart.

[kgun12]

Fair. I'm not saying he sucks. I just think he's nothing special. At this level most know how to coach. It's having great players that set them apart.

I’m still on the fence. I do question some of the decisions. I didn’t understand the offensive game plan at all today. They should have run the ball more and pass only when necessary. 25 attempts and probably half were 20+ yards. The conditions weren’t right for them. This isn’t the first questionable game plan. We threw way too much during the three skid. With Josh’s injury they should have pounded the ball. And why the feel they need to run Josh so much especially after the last couple game is maddening. Why didn’t they give the BBCack the ball on that 3rd and short Josh ran today?
Yeah Dorsey is responsible for the game plan, but I’m sure McD has final approval?

I’d really like to dislike Frazier’s defense, but they usually adjust and win. Plus with all the injuries especially on the defense it’s amazing we are so good. We are like 5th or 6th overall. Kinda amazing.

[BillsOwnAll]

I’m still on the fence. I do question some of the decisions. I didn’t understand the offensive game plan at all today. They should have run the ball more and pass only when necessary. 25 attempts and probably half were 20+ yards. The conditions weren’t right for them. This isn’t the first questionable game plan. We threw way too much during the three skid. With Josh’s injury they should have pounded the ball. And why the feel they need to run Josh so much especially after the last couple game is maddening. Why didn’t they give the BBCack the ball on that 3rd and short Josh ran today?
Yeah Dorsey is responsible for the game plan, but I’m sure McD has final approval?

I’d really like to dislike Frazier’s defense, but they usually adjust and win. Plus with all the injuries especially on the defense it’s amazing we are so good. We are like 5th or 6th overall. Kinda amazing.
Did throwing deep open up the run game?

It never felt like bills were going to lose the game. It just felt like a matter of time before they ran away with it.

Great adjustments after the first quarter.

People expectations are TOO high. People expect a touchdown every drive. That’s not realistic. Sure the bears are “bad” but they are also an nfl football team. With 53 pros on the other side. They won 35-13.

[Woodman]

We did rush for more than 250 yards didn't we?

[kgun12]

Did throwing deep open up the run game?

It never felt like bills were going to lose the game. It just felt like a matter of time before they ran away with it.

Great adjustments after the first quarter.

People expectations are TOO high. People expect a touchdown every drive. That’s not realistic. Sure the bears are “bad” but they are also an nfl football team. With 53 pros on the other side. They won 35-13.

As far as the pass setting up the run, maybe but I think we could have run the ball at will. Like I said earlier, we one and that’s the goal. I just thought with conditioning being what they were and forecasted there was no need throw ad much as we did. 11-3 is 11-3 and I’m not complaining.

[Chet]

I remember the exact moment McDermott lost me and it’s only been a downward spiral (imo) since then:

Down 21-9 right before halftime of the AFCCG at KC with a 4th and goal from inside the 5, I believe. His balls shriveled up and he kicked the FG, knowing damn well that 3 points does ****-all in that situation as it’s still a 2 score game (with KC getting the 2nd half kickoff iirc).

He coached not to lose in the biggest game of his career and it crippled the team’s confidence.

[Goobylal]

You guys realize he took the Bills to the playoffs his first season, with Tyrod Taylor as his QB, right?

[cookie G]

I remember the exact moment McDermott lost me and it’s only been a downward spiral (imo) since then:

Down 21-9 right before halftime of the AFCCG at KC with a 4th and goal from inside the 5, I believe. His balls shriveled up and he kicked the FG, knowing damn well that 3 points does ****-all in that situation as it’s still a 2 score game (with KC getting the 2nd half kickoff iirc).

He coached not to lose in the biggest game of his career and it crippled the team’s confidence.

Oh Mother of Perpetual Misery, help us.

Yeah, the team's confidence is so low they just won their 3rd straight AFC East title.

They play not to lose often enough to sport a 12-3 record this year.

They aren't physical enough that they held the No. 1 rushing team in the NFL to less than 100 yards and less than 3 yards per carry.

They aren't physical enough despite rushing for more than 200 yards in frigid temps and more than 250 yards and 8 yards per carry.

I know, I know, Like OP/Sully/Whomever, you think you're being some type of "realist"..but...you're not...you're just being wrong the vast majority of the time.

I swear, I think some of these realists would like Rex Ryan back.

Win or lose, they finally found a coach/GM combo that puts them in a position to succeed. This after such a long line of misses...

Williams
Miularkey
Jauron
Fewell
Marrone
Rexy

Donahoe
Marv/Jauron
Brandon!!
Buddy
Whaley

Damn...just try and enjoy the recent success, if only for a moment.

[Novacane]

You guys realize he took the Bills to the playoffs his first season, with Tyrod Taylor as his QB, right?

And? I don't want to get rid of him. I think he's another Marv. Good leader and motivator. Not a good schemer or game day coach. Good enough if he has great talent. Not going to out scheme someone in a big game

[Chet]

Oh Mother of Perpetual Misery, help us.

Yeah, the team's confidence is so low they just won their 3rd straight AFC East title.

They play not to lose often enough to sport a 12-3 record this year.

They aren't physical enough that they held the No. 1 rushing team in the NFL to less than 100 yards and less than 3 yards per carry.

They aren't physical enough despite rushing for more than 200 yards in frigid temps and more than 250 yards and 8 yards per carry.

I know, I know, Like OP/Sully/Whomever, you think you're being some type of "realist"..but...you're not...you're just being wrong the vast majority of the time.

I swear, I think some of these realists would like Rex Ryan back.

Win or lose, they finally found a coach/GM combo that puts them in a position to succeed. This after such a long line of misses...

Williams
Miularkey
Jauron
Fewell
Marrone
Rexy

Donahoe
Marv/Jauron
Brandon!!
Buddy
Whaley

Damn...just try and enjoy the recent success, if only for a moment.
I said I was grateful for the culture and return to prominence and I was being genuine, but Novacane said it right: we are at a distinct schematic/coaching disadvantage against most coaches in the league. Thanks to Beane we have extraordinary talent, but due to current CS we are running painfully ordinary concepts on both sides of the ball.

as for my Chiefs AFCCG reference, the confidence killer was in regards to the second half of that game. Yes, the Chiefs were clearly better that year, but it was an atrocious, frightened decision that sabotaged a team on an 8 game winning streak.

Make him Coach Emeritus or something (Peter principle) and go after an offensive guru with creative concepts. On defense, I want a coach who isn’t afraid to go hunting. We are vanilla.

[Chet]

As for the AFC East champion banners you’re so keen to wave, our QB competition from 2020-2022 has been:

Cam Newton
Mac Jones
Tua Tagovailoa
Zach Wilson
Sam Darnold

The other 3 division QBs have also just imploded the last 2-4 weeks in truly historic fashion…and I’m talking performances that will go down with butt-fumble lore.

[Goobylal]

As for the AFC East champion banners you’re so keen to wave, our QB competition from 2020-2022 has been:

Cam Newton
Mac Jones
Tua Tagovailoa
Zach Wilson
Sam Darnold

The other 3 division QBs have also just imploded the last 2-4 weeks in truly historic fashion…and I’m talking performances that will go down with butt-fumble lore.

So? Who was the QB competition for the Cheats during their reign?

[Chet]

So? Who was the QB competition for the Cheats during their reign?
Nobody cares because they won SBs early and often, not to mention they were brilliantly coached for 20 years.

We haven’t won **** and the coaching is meh at its peak. “Hey Josh, go run head first into the pile or do some other miraculous stuff,” is not a sustainable game plan against elite teams and coaches

[Goobylal]

Nobody cares because they won SBs early and often, not to mention they were brilliantly coached for 20 years.

We haven’t won **** and the coaching is meh at its peak. “Hey Josh, go run head first into the pile or do some other miraculous stuff,” is not a sustainable game plan against elite teams and coaches

Yeah they won thanks to a lousy division and cheating. I guess McD should get on the cheating part...

[jamze132]

I just want someone to talk to Josh about not playing stupid. He listens to Diggs too much.

[Historian]

I completely disagree.

Think about some of the coaches we have had here:

Harvey Johnson TWICE (a scout!) 1-12-1, 1-13

Jim Ringo (an o line coach) 3-11.

Stevenson (I saw a lot of character out there) 8-8, 2-14.

Bullough (They took the sails out of our winds) 2-14

Williams (Sam Coward will play where I tell him to play) 4-12, 8-8, 7-9

Mularkey (I quit.) 9-7, 6-10

Jauron (7-9 trifecta)

Chan (4-12, 6-10, 6-10)

Ryan (Leads league in penalties during his tenur, never over .500

Sorry, this guy has brought a studious, self-accountability approach. They play them one game at a time, no matter how they lay.

He has brought respectability back to a program that was a laughing stock for almost two decades.

As far as I'm concerned, he can have the job for life.

With all the success, people forget that this is HIS FIRST HEAD COACHING GIG! He's going to make mistakes.

He is learning on the job too. One year, he will put it all together, minus the injuries.

Listen, I get frustrated with this team weekly....but don't imagine that I want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Some guys have it.....some guys don't.

How would you like to have Todd Bowels as your coach?

Or the dweeb in Miami?

How many Championship games did his mentor, Andy Reid lose....at HOME before he won one? FIVE, then lost another last year. Lost two Super Bowls too, as well as Seven divisional games, and two wild cards.

Pass. I'll stick with a proven commodity, because I know that if he hit the open market, he would get hired within 24 hours.

This is just the opening act for this team.

Enjoy it.

[Forward_Lateral]

First, Dungy won a ring. Second, McDermott is the WINNINGEST coach in Bills history.

Fans are quick to forget the past Dick, Rexes, Greggs, Dougs, etc.

Does he have faults? Sure. Every head coach does. Wanting him fired is the absolute dumbest thing I’ve ever read on this forum

[kgun12]

Excellent post Historian!!! :10:

[Goobylal]

McD changed the culture and that was before Josh arrived. I'd only consider moving on from him if a proven better coach were available. Failing that, I'd force him to get better coordinators.

[kingJofNYC]

I just want someone to talk to Josh about not playing stupid. He listens to Diggs too much.
If Diggs has his ear why hasn't he been getting the ball....lol

Josh has played high risk high reward ball for most of his career, no one is talking that out of him at this point.

McD got us to the playoff with Tyrod, do you think if he's head coach during the Moron years he doesn't squeeze us through with that D? Bills are one of the best teams in the league in 4th down decision making, the scheme is fine on both sides of the ball when you look at EPA or DVOA. Yeah, you need good players in this league to really put you over the top, but how much talent did this franchise lose due to bad coaching? We shipped off Lynch for peanuts and he became a monster. Countless players thrown to the bin, guys like Jason Peters, only to become top tier players elsewhere because they had no desire to play here. McD has his issues, but I'd ride or die with that dude for a good while, and so will his players.

[Historian]

, but how much talent did this franchise lose due to bad coaching? We shipped off Lynch for peanuts and he became a monster. Countless players thrown to the bin, guys like Jason Peters, only to become top tier players elsewhere because they had no desire to play here.

Good question.

You should start a separate thread about it, because I can think of three right off the top of my head.

[Forward_Lateral]

Good question.

You should start a separate thread about it, because I can think of three right off the top of my head.

I can think of a few as well

[Goobylal]

If Diggs has his ear why hasn't he been getting the ball....lol

Josh has played high risk high reward ball for most of his career, no one is talking that out of him at this point.

McD got us to the playoff with Tyrod, do you think if he's head coach during the Moron years he doesn't squeeze us through with that D? Bills are one of the best teams in the league in 4th down decision making, the scheme is fine on both sides of the ball when you look at EPA or DVOA. Yeah, you need good players in this league to really put you over the top, but how much talent did this franchise lose due to bad coaching? We shipped off Lynch for peanuts and he became a monster. Countless players thrown to the bin, guys like Jason Peters, only to become top tier players elsewhere because they had no desire to play here. McD has his issues, but I'd ride or die with that dude for a good while, and so will his players.

I agree with most everything, but Lynch was a head case who never wanted to be in Buffalo to begin with (he wanted to be on the left coast) and had several run-ins with the law. He also didn't take his job seriously. He needed a change of scenery. And Peters decided to leave once the Bills fired Mouse McNally and didn't give him $10M/year as soon as he made the Pro Bowl at a LT. They got a 1st rounder in trade for him but while he's probably a HOF'er, the Eagles won their only SB while he was injured.

[Bill Cody]

Some folks are never happy. If we win the SB they'll shut up if only briefly.

[Cntrygal]

For future hijack attempts by whining CLICK HERE (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/262111-Hijacking-Threads-with-BS).

[Mace]

I can't see Pegula replacing McDermott at this point, so I don't even consider that.

McDermott is a stable hand on the wheel. I love what he's done with the culture. I like that he's a manager HC with an open door. He's a motivational coach.

McDermott is simply not a great football mind. He isn't a wizard with tactics, or schemes, I don't see players worried about upsetting him by playing poorly. He's reluctant to play young talent unless he has to. He has no bag of tricks. He's not flexible, dynamic or an innovator.

I don't feel he's grown or evolved in the 6th year of the program, I suspect he'll choke again in the playoffs. I don't think he can squeeze any more fire out of himself to win a Super Bowl.

I feel Beane has loaded this roster with talent. I feel that talent is what is carrying this team. I don't think Beane can load it with much more.

McDermott's finest coaching effort was his first season, he inspired them, united them, and got great results out of sub par talent. I don't see the motivational factor being as relevant now that they've built a regular contender.

I think McDermott needs to step it up and go petal to the metal if a championship is to come here. I cannot at this point, see McDermott being capable of it.

We'll see what happens. There can only be one goal with this team. Good chance, imho, McDermott is a Schottenheimer.

[kingJofNYC]

You know who gets too much credit, Beane.

Go look at his 2020 draft....and the 21 draft is not looking so hot either right now. Rousseau and maybe Hamlin, because Brown is doodoo. Hamlin can't cover but at least he comes down in the box and hammers the run.

For a team LOADED WITH TALENT, we sure didn't get many starters from 2 out of the last 3 drafts. Probably 1 long term starter on this roster from both drafts. But we're LOADED.

He got Allen though so that's about all you need in this league to get others to come on over and join the squad via FA. I don't like the drafting, 2018/19 holding up ok though, especially at QB1.

[Chet]

Chiefs now guaranteed 14-3 because Raisers are starting Stidham the rest of the way. No margin of error for the Bills. We should win the last game of the year against NE on talent alone, but time to see what Coach Clap is made of this week.