LB Roquan Smith - 5 Years / $100 Million from Ravens

[Lexwhat]

Smith was just traded from Chicago to Baltimore before the trade deadline.

"In Baltimore, Smith upgraded the Ravens' defense immensely. His ability as a sideline-to-sideline tackling maven with coverage skills added dynamic play in the middle of the defense"

The reason for my post is that this is now the benchmark for the Tremaine Edmunds deal. I don't see how Beane can fit that contract into this team with the Von Miller deal, but it depends on what the future salary cap limits are.

With the Hamlin situation (potentially career ending injury), this makes it even tougher to lose Poyer next year. Hamlin was the only capable Safety this team has outside of Hyde/Poyer.

I wonder if Benford can be moved to Safety next year?


https://www.nfl.com/news/ravens-lb-roquan-smith-agree-to-terms-on-five-year-100-million-contract-extensio

[kgun12]

I don’t see them paying Edmunds that kind of money even if they could. I also think they go to FA to kind there next safety tandem

[Mace]

I wouldn't pay Edmunds that kind of money for how they feebly use him, by the same token I don't know they find a guy who can be that feebly used at the same production, such as it is, in this scheme, but this defensive scheme has made it's own problems with a lack of evolution.

Don't know how this ends up but you can't pay him that money in this scheme, he'll never measure up to it for how they use him in his role, in this scheme, imho.

[Lexwhat]

It has been Beane's policy to only give big long-term contracts to young, home-grown players (Edmunds fits that description). Von Miller is the only exception.

I think Beane finally saw what they wanted to see from Edmunds this year. Unfortunately, we have no replacement for Edmunds on this roster, and sometimes it only takes 1 team (like the Ravens here) to totally reset the market for a given position.

Franchise tag for Edmunds is a possibility; I don't recall if Beane has ever used the Franchise Tag though.

[YardRat]

Edmunds isn't worth half that.

And Beane made Morse the highest paid center in the league, and re-upped Diggs almost immediately, so he's opened the pocket book for more than just Miller.

[Night Train]

Smith is a far better player than #49. Don't see the parallel at all.

[Mace]

Smith is a far better player than #49. Don't see the parallel at all.

I just honestly wonder what happens if you insert him into this junk scheme. He could elevate it or disappear into it. I'm not a big Edmunds booster, but I'll never be entirely sure he wasn't misused.

[kgun12]

I just honestly wonder what happens if you insert him into this junk scheme. He could elevate it or disappear into it. I'm not a big Edmunds booster, but I'll never be entirely sure he wasn't misused.

The problem is he lack instincts for the ball in the run game. His speed make up his lack of instincts in the passing game and they are mostly in zone. For as much as he brings to the passing game he’s just as bad in the run game.

[notacon]

I’m not going to get into a pissing match with the Edmunds (I’ll be kind here) doubters. Just a waste of time. Beane is going to do what he thinks is the best for the team....and that would be to extend Edmunds if they can come to a fair agreement.

The market will determine what Edmunds is worth. And I suspect that most NFL teams value him much higher than a few fans here.

What is most interesting with this signing is they still do not have Lamar Jackson under contract for next year.

That idiot STILL does not have an agent, and he has shown himself to be unreliable since he can't stay on the field. Especially late in the year when a QB is needed the most.

I wonder if they franchise tag him and then try to trade him.

[notacon]

Funny, the one single grading source that the Edmunds doubters desperately tried to use as proof (‘proof, I tell you’ :rolleyes:) that he sucks was PFF.


At the end of this 2022 season, PFF has Edmunds ranked #12 in grading....Milano is #18 and Roquan Smith is #28. :rofl:

[notacon]

PFF has Josh Allen #1, Stefon Diggs #4, Von Miller #10. Greg Rousseau #12.

[Canadian'eh!]

I’m not going to get into a pissing match with the Edmunds (I’ll be kind here) doubters. Just a waste of time. Beane is going to do what he thinks is the best for the team....and that would be to extend Edmunds if they can come to a fair agreement.

The market will determine what Edmunds is worth. And I suspect that most NFL teams value him much higher than a few fans here.

What is most interesting with this signing is they still do not have Lamar Jackson under contract for next year.

That idiot STILL does not have an agent, and he has shown himself to be unreliable since he can't stay on the field. Especially late in the year when a QB is needed the most.

I wonder if they franchise tag him and then try to trade him.
So what do you think he will get?

- - - Updated - - -


Funny, the one single grading source that the Edmunds doubters desperately tried to use as proof (‘proof, I tell you’ :rolleyes:) that he sucks was PFF.


At the end of this 2022 season, PFF has Edmunds ranked #12 in grading....Milano is #18 and Roquan Smith is #28. :rofl:

so, you agree that Edmunds is better than Milano?

[notacon]

So what do you think he will get?

I have no idea. Probably in the $13M to $15M APY if I were to guess....maybe as high as $16M. Just a guess. And with the cap increases year after year, no one knows.


Additionally, the APY is a misleading number. Does not really mean that much (depending on how the contract is structured....the APY is the marketing number....the sizzle). What’s important is the cap hit each year, and the guaranteed money and what kind of “guarantee” it is.....”fully” guaranteed or not.


With Edmunds being so young, long contracts that have lower cap hits in the early years is easier to structure. We’ll find out in a few months what the NFL thinks he’s worth.



so, you agree that Edmunds is better than Milano?


Nope. PFF grading is not a measure if one player is “better” than another as in ranking the overall quality of a player.


It was the Edmunds doubters that tried to use the flawed PFF grading to argue that he sucked. Now that they have him graded much higher, I suspect they will change their tune and ignore it.


I have said many times, that the PARTNERSHIP of BOTH Edmunds AND Milano gives the Bills the BEST LB DUO in the NFL. And the Bills are blessed to be in that situation.

Just like they were blessed with the safety duo of Hyde and Poyer.


The classic ’the whole is greater than the sum of the parts’.


If I were to rank the two, I would put Milano ever so slightly above Edmunds.

[jamze132]

R. Smith has much better stats than Edmunds throughout their careers. He’s a playmaker while Edmunds still plugs the wrong hole.

[YardRat]

I just honestly wonder what happens if you insert him into this junk scheme. He could elevate it or disappear into it. I'm not a big Edmunds booster, but I'll never be entirely sure he wasn't misused.

Not a fan of the bendy scheme obviously, but IMO the only misuse of Edmunds is playing him out of position. He just doesn't have the read and react skills a linebacker...especially an inside linebacker...needs to truly be successful. Edmunds needs to be on the edge. If a linebacker of Smith's quality were inserted into this scheme I would guess we see less out of position by one hole or more mis-reads and less bites on play fakes just for starters.

[Forward_Lateral]

Someone is going to offer Edmunds a huge contract, you know it.

[DraftBoy]

Someone is going to offer Edmunds a huge contract, you know it.

I agree, I think somebody is going to think his blend of size and speed can be even better in a downhill attacking scheme as opposed to be a read and react scheme. I don’t expect him to be resigned at this point, but not due to lack of interest from the Bills who I do think would like to retain him at some cost.

[OpIv37]

Franchise Edmunds to buy a year then draft someone who can hopefully be his replacement.

[Saratoga Slim]

Franchise Edmunds to buy a year then draft someone who can hopefully be his replacement.
I think that's what we were doing with Bernard. But on the evidence so far that seems like it's not going to work. In theory it's how Beane/McDermott want to work though--they don't want to have to rely on rookies.

Another option would be to let Edmunds go, sign a mid-tier free agent MLB that doesn't kill our cap, and draft one high. Then the free agent becomes our transition plan. But it would probably have to be someone who is familiar with our scheme.

[Novacane]

We can't afford him at that price. If the want's he same contract thanks for your service.

[Woodman]

Be ready to turn the page .... I doubt we will be the high bidder is all.

I'll also bet he will be used much differently where ever it is that he goes.

Rushing the passer he could be sensational TJ Watt move over *****.

Should I have said hold my beer :idunno:

[Bill Cody]

We can't afford him at that price. If the want's he same contract thanks for your service.

He won't command that price. But even at 15m which may be his market it will be hard for the Bills to afford him. But it also will be hard for the Bills to lose him. No easy answer. To me he is still improving as a player. Athletically he's an immense talent. And he's just starting to translate that talent into instincts. Not all the time but to argue the guy doesn't make big plays is ridiculous. He made a couple plays in the NE game that are snap of the ball reactions for important plays like the ball he tipped that he wouldn't have made even last year.

I hope we keep him because I don't think we've seen his best yet. But it won't surprise me if he moves on. There may be better offers than we can afford.

[mightysimi]

Not too often contract prices go down and a several time pro-bowler why would he take less than the contracts going around? 18 and change for Warner, 19 and change for Leonard and 20 for Smith. I bet the franchise is up there too with Chandler Jones and Von Miller being called LBs. I don't think any agent worth his salt would let him sign a contract in the 13-15M range. Unless he wants to take less to stay here, I don't know it is possible at the going rate.

[Bill Cody]

I think that's what we were doing with Bernard. But on the evidence so far that seems like it's not going to work. In theory it's how Beane/McDermott want to work though--they don't want to have to rely on rookies.

Another option would be to let Edmunds go, sign a mid-tier free agent MLB that doesn't kill our cap, and draft one high. Then the free agent becomes our transition plan. But it would probably have to be someone who is familiar with our scheme.

I don't really think so. Bernard was a depth choice. He's the size of a big safety. Imagine playing the Titans with that guy in the middle? Katy bar the door.

[notacon]

Franchise Edmunds to buy a year then draft someone who can hopefully be his replacement.
That would be a very expensive route. Franchise tag for LB is expected to be in the $20M+ range.

It would be smarter to sign him to an extension, with an impressive APY, and backload the cap hit to buy time. Managing th cap is serious business and Brandon Beane has shown himself very capable to do so, while maintaining a contending team.

The Bills have more critical needs than to draft than a LB. Safety and interior O-Line are the most pressing needs. Although, with the draft, you never know who is going to be available. The Bills are in BPA mode more than filling needs.

I have no idea what Beane is going to do. There is no doubt that he, Frazier and McDermott LOVE Edmunds, believe he performs at an exceptional level, is critical to their defensive scheme and value his solid leadership.

He IS one the core building blocks for this Bills team. With his very young age, he is an ideal player to keep if possible. Either way, he is going to be a high value LB for years to come.

He could easily become a cap casualty. But, the expectation a few years ago was than Milano would be a cap casualty as well.

The Bills team and defense is much better WITH Tremaine Edmunds than without. Milano struggles some with he is not on the field.

[notacon]

I think that's what we were doing with Bernard. But on the evidence so far that seems like it's not going to work. In theory it's how Beane/McDermott want to work though--they don't want to have to rely on rookies.

Another option would be to let Edmunds go, sign a mid-tier free agent MLB that doesn't kill our cap, and draft one high. Then the free agent becomes our transition plan. But it would probably have to be someone who is familiar with our scheme.

Bernard was never drafted to replace Edmunds. He was more likely to replace Milano (eventually). Unfortunately, he has not shown the ability to do so. The tell is Dodson was brought off the bench when needed, and the BIG tell was bringing back AJ Klein.

I hope he develops more this off season. He needs a LOT of work.

[sukie]

Nottie I agree with your draft needs but WR2 is a glaring issue too.

[Bill Cody]

Nottie I agree with your draft needs but WR2 is a glaring issue too.

you have another season with Davis. Not sure they end up paying Davis so you're right it could be considered a priority in the draft. I like Shakir in the slot going forward. He could be a dynamo.

[Mace]

Not a fan of the bendy scheme obviously, but IMO the only misuse of Edmunds is playing him out of position. He just doesn't have the read and react skills a linebacker...especially an inside linebacker...needs to truly be successful. Edmunds needs to be on the edge. If a linebacker of Smith's quality were inserted into this scheme I would guess we see less out of position by one hole or more mis-reads and less bites on play fakes just for starters.

I just can't see Edmunds on the edge though. He "looks" like edge, but he's not a contact guy. He gets tangled up and out muscled, sometimes by running backs, he wouldn't have any moves.

Best use.....hm.....creativity. Move him around, use him as a wild card offenses need to worry about instead of plunking him in the same place with the same multiple responsibilities, which I feel makes him tentative. Or as DraftBoy said, downhill attacking scheme, simplified responsibilities. Use his athleticism aggressively.

I just see their mlb role in this defensive scheme as a roadblock. You want a superior athlete with range, and then have him doing too much so he can't maximize it.

[sukie]

you have another season with Davis. Not sure they end up paying Davis so you're right it could be considered a priority in the draft. I like Shakir in the slot going forward. He could be a dynamo.

Do T have to keep Davis. Rookie contracts are cheap.

[notacon]

Nottie I agree with your draft needs but WR2 is a glaring issue too.

I’m not sure if it’s “glaring”. Davis has made some incredible catches. And is an extremely good blocker. He is ranked #33 in yards in the NFL for WR, (in only 15 games) Diggs is #5.

There are nine teams in the NFL that do not have ONE WR in the top 33. KC’s yard leader is not even a WR, but TE Kelce. JuJu Smith-Schuster is #24. So, Davis outperforms nine #1 WR’s in the NFL.


Minnesota has the #1 WR in yard, but their #2 is ranked #50.


There is probably more than 2/3 of the NFL teams that would love to have a #2 as productive as Gabe Davis. Although his drops this season are an issue.

[Mace]

I’m not sure if it’s “glaring”. Davis has made some incredible catches. And is an extremely good blocker. He is ranked #33 in yards in the NFL for WR, (in only 15 games) Diggs is #5.

There are nine teams in the NFL that do not have ONE WR in the top 33. KC’s yard leader is not even a WR, but TE Kelce. JuJu Smith-Schuster is #24. So, Davis outperforms nine #1 WR’s in the NFL.


Minnesota has the #1 WR in yard, but their #2 is ranked #50.


There is probably more than 2/3 of the NFL teams that would love to have a #2 as productive as Gabe Davis. Although his drops this season are an issue.

You should be sure it's glaring. A 51.6% catch percentage is entirely inadequate for a number 2 WR. Dropsy McKenzie catches 64% of his targets and dropsy Knox catches 73% of his.

[notacon]

You should be sure it's glaring. A 51.6% catch percentage is entirely inadequate for a number 2 WR. Dropsy McKenzie catches 64% of his targets and dropsy Knox catches 73% of his.

No, it’s not “glaring”. I wrote why.

[notacon]

Funny (not really, it’s expected) many of the same people that said a MLB was a “glaring need” (several said the Bills should waste a top pick on such....they were wrong, of course) last year (it was not even close to a ANY kind of need) are, in part, the same people that are saying that #2 WR is a “glaring need”.

[swiper]

Nottie I agree with your draft needs but WR2 is a glaring issue too.

Beane let go of Wyatt Teller, a pro-bowl guard that they could certainly use.

Beane let Hodgins get away.

Both Bills draft choices thriving elsewhere.

Beane gets it mostly right. Not all of it.

[swiper]

Not surprising that the same clueless deniers are still clueless and denying.

[notacon]

How can maintaining Hodgins on the practice squad as a depth WR because he was not good enough or valuable enough on special teams to crack the top six WR’s on the active roster, being placed on the practice squad, calling him up when injuries warranted, and because of other injuries that required roster spots, tried to get hm back on the practice squad (with the rules required him to go through waivers, which he has several times and went unclaimed) and the NYG, because of their WR room being decimated by injuries, and general crappiness, claim him.....constitute the Bills “giving up on him” and “letting him get away”??!?!?!

Of course, it doesn’t. How silly. That’s NFL football. And there are many players on a Super Bowl containing team with one of the best rosters in the NFL, that are on the 2nd, 3rd and practice squad that are good enough to start (or be on the active roster) of lesser teams with lesser rosters.

The "same clueless deniers” are the ones that are “clueless” and “denying” THAT reality.

[swiper]

How can maintaining Hodgins on the practice squad as a depth WR because he was not good enough or valuable enough on special teams to crack the top six WR’s on the active roster, being placed on the practice squad, calling him up when injuries warranted, and because of other injuries that required roster spots, tried to get hm back on the practice squad (with the rules required him to go through waivers, which he has several times and went unclaimed) and the NYG, because of their WR room being decimated by injuries, and general crappiness, claim him.....constitute the Bills “giving up on him” and “letting him get away”??!?!?!

Of course, it doesn’t. How silly. That’s NFL football. And there are many players on a Super Bowl containing team with one of the best rosters in the NFL, that are on the 2nd, 3rd and practice squad that are good enough to start (or be on the active roster) of lesser teams with lesser rosters.

The "same clueless deniers” are the ones that are “clueless” and “denying” THAT reality.

The same clueless deniers are also liars and not really intelligent and now trying to twist words to make themselves not really appear to lack the intelligence that they so sadly do.