RT Spencer Brown is a Problem

[kingJofNYC]

I rewatched some of yesterday's game and he was brutal. Looked up some numbers, they had him down as giving up half a dozen pressures, he's actually been tagged with that many pressures against multiple times this season....

This is why Josh sometimes panics too early, his internal clock is quick because his RT is a turnstile in pass pro. It's no shock that Josh had his best pass percentage when D.Williams was here and playing quality RT. This needs to be addressed in the offseason, we haven't given Josh enough resources on the OL to protect him. Biggest failure is not being able to develop our OL.

[Novacane]

kicker tryouts in Dallas tomorrow.

[Woodman]

kicker tryouts in Dallas tomorrow.

I'm busy ..... back in the day though no problem.

[Woodman]

I rewatched some of yesterday's game and he was brutal. Looked up some numbers, they had him down as giving up half a dozen pressures, he's actually been tagged with that many pressures against multiple times this season....

This is why Josh sometimes panics too early, his internal clock is quick because his RT is a turnstile in pass pro. It's no shock that Josh had his best pass percentage when D.Williams was here and playing quality RT. This needs to be addressed in the offseason, we haven't given Josh enough resources on the OL to protect him. Biggest failure is not being able to develop our OL.


As bad as he's played he saved the game yesterday with the fumble recovery.

[TacklingDummy]

It’s never good when your QB gets sacked 7 times.

Brown did save the Bills on fumble recover.

[Prov401]

Had high hopes for Brown. The line needs a complete overhaul. Dawkins and Morse are the only ones starting that can be considered actual starters. And even then, with his concussion history, Morse's replacement is also needed. I still drool over what it would be like if Josh had an elite line in front of him.

[YardRat]

Quit drafting projects because of chart-topping measurables and draft football players instead.

[swiper]

O-line could use some improvement for sure. I wonder if Beane, et al, feel that way though. It's beyond time to draft the next center, IMO. Morse is nearing his 9-live limit. Like with Eric Wood, new guy could start at guard and swing over to center when the time is right.

[Forward_Lateral]

Brown has been meh. He's a much better run blocker than pass protector.

I'll say it once again.

Beane needs to hire an O-line consultant. Someone who has a reputation for drafting/signing Offensive lineman that turn out to be good. His track record has stunk. Not a knock on him, as nobody is perfect, but he needs to see this and acknowledge that he needs help evaluating the talent of the big boys

[notacon]

kicker tryouts in Dallas tomorrow.

This is off topic, but, yeah. I almost covered my eyes. I feel bad for the guy....but....****, missing FOUR extra points in a row????


I almost expected Dallas to just give up trying kicks and just go to 2 pt attempt after the third miss.

[Saratoga Slim]

Quit drafting projects because of chart-topping measurables and draft football players instead.

Bingo. 6'8" sounds cool but may actually be too tall for a OT.

[Mace]

Bingo. 6'8" sounds cool but may actually be too tall for a OT.

Might also be that his frame can't carry the weight. He gained 80lbs as a college freshman in switching from te to ol, and he's had injuries to his knees, ankles, and back.

He also only really played two full seasons at the position in college, but oh those measurables.

[Mace]

Brown has been meh. He's a much better run blocker than pass protector.

I'll say it once again.

Beane needs to hire an O-line consultant. Someone who has a reputation for drafting/signing Offensive lineman that turn out to be good. His track record has stunk. Not a knock on him, as nobody is perfect, but he needs to see this and acknowledge that he needs help evaluating the talent of the big boys

Also might be an issue with their scouting feeding him the wrong information.

[jamze132]

Edmunds is also a physical specimen. Doesn’t mean they’re going to be superstars.

[Mace]

Edmunds is also a physical specimen. Doesn’t mean they’re going to be superstars.

Like Yardie said, they go for measurables not football players. They could probably beat anyone at beach volleyball.

[Bill Cody]

Brown has been meh. He's a much better run blocker than pass protector.

I'll say it once again.

Beane needs to hire an O-line consultant. Someone who has a reputation for drafting/signing Offensive lineman that turn out to be good. His track record has stunk. Not a knock on him, as nobody is perfect, but he needs to see this and acknowledge that he needs help evaluating the talent of the big boys

He does seem to like these giant tackles. It's not like Brown is the only one. Is he googling "6'8" college tackles"? Tommy Doyle. Luke Tenuta. Dion Dawkins is a runt compared to what Beane seems to prefer. 6' 5" to 6'6" would seem perfect for a tackle. I don't think anything taller is helpful. So he could start by not drafting giants.

As far as judging talent Dawkins was a nice pick. Jack Anderson has played a couple games this season for the Giants. Wyatt Teller is a good player we let go. But yeah. He does seem to need some help in this area. He LOVED Cody Ford so much he had to trade up to get that bust. You would think Tommy Doyle is either an option for competition for Brown next camp or he's released. He's been through 2 camps. Time for the light to come on. Or not.

[Bill Cody]

O-line could use some improvement for sure. I wonder if Beane, et al, feel that way though. It's beyond time to draft the next center, IMO. Morse is nearing his 9-live limit. Like with Eric Wood, new guy could start at guard and swing over to center when the time is right.

Agree. I'd be drafting 2 OL next draft. One tackle, one guard that can swing to center.

[Woodman]

Bingo. 6'8" sounds cool but may actually be too tall for a OT.
He's built to block passes as in (Too Tall Jones)!!

[Lexwhat]

Bingo. 6'8" sounds cool but may actually be too tall for a OT.

Not sure if it’s specifically the height. Jonathan Ogden and Orlando Pace were both about that height, and are hall of famers.

Ultimately, I think the issue is that Spencer brown just isn’t an elite Tackle.

[kgun12]

Bingo. 6'8" sounds cool but may actually be too tall for a OT.

You might be on to something here, he is mean, nasty and love this game, but his size just might be his downfall. It’s hard to get lower than the D-End and as quickly as they can.

[kgun12]

Maybe not first round but this kid is a mauler!!!

Cody Mauch North Dakota State! He’s as aggressive and nasty.

19674

[Bill Cody]

Maybe not first round but this kid is a mauler!!!

Cody Mauch North Dakota State! He’s as aggressive and nasty.

19674

And his favorite board game is "You might be a Redneck If"

[Chet]

Name me a starting OL who isn’t a problem. Just a joke of a group, not one keeper among them

[kgun12]

And his favorite board game is "You might be a Redneck If"

I don’t care what color his neck or any other body part is as long as he can block, lol!

[John Doe]

Way too early to give up on Brown.

And, you don't get a 14-3 record with a terrible offensive line. I am not saying that they are a great line. I am saying that they are probably average to above average.

[Chet]

Way too early to give up on Brown.

And, you don't get a 14-3 record with a terrible offensive line. I am not saying that they are a great line. I am saying that they are probably average to above average.
But how much does Allen mask their deficiencies with his escapability and rushing yards? What if Keenum was starting this year, what would be the OL rankings then?

It's a bad unit, not even average

[John Doe]

But how much does Allen mask their deficiencies with his escapability and rushing yards? What if Keenum was starting this year, what would be the OL rankings then?

It's a bad unit, not even average
Then by your logic, there is no point in improving the O-Line because Josh can put up 30-40 points with anyone blocking for him.

Just concentrate on the defense and leave the offense to Allen.

Of course, we have fire our incompetent GM, Coach, and Defensive Coordinator first.

[Bill Cody]

Way too early to give up on Brown.

And, you don't get a 14-3 record with a terrible offensive line. I am not saying that they are a great line. I am saying that they are probably average to above average.

hmmm...how long is not too early?

[John Doe]

hmmm...how long is not too early?

Brown came from a small school and was thrust into frontline NFL action his first year. Then he had to undergo off-season surgery on his back which kept him from developing his strength and conditioning.

Next year will tell us what we need to know.

[Mad Max]

I am guilty of over posting my frustrations on his mediocre play. He and the whole group needs significant upgrading.

FYI for all those praising him for recovering the fumble, may have missed the fact that both he and Dawkins got beaten immediately to cause the fumble in the first place.

look at 14:06

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[kgun12]

But how much does Allen mask their deficiencies with his escapability and rushing yards? What if Keenum was starting this year, what would be the OL rankings then?

It's a bad unit, not even average

The same amount Mahomes and Jones masks their lines.

And yes, I’m all for making the line better.

[Mace]

Maybe not first round but this kid is a mauler!!!

Cody Mauch North Dakota State! He’s as aggressive and nasty.

19674

We don't want nasty and aggressive young men on this team !!! We want a band of nice, fresh young athletes with measurables. Geez. That man looks like a ruffian !

[swiper]

Edmunds is also a physical specimen. Doesn’t mean they’re going to be superstars.

Doug Whaley ghosts in the building at OBD.

[Chet]

The same amount Mahomes and Jones masks their lines.

And yes, I’m all for making the line better.
Both the Giants and Chiefs have Probowlers and/or All-Pros on their lines. Giants have great young talent at the OT position while the Chiefs interior OL is the antithesis of the **** we trot out there

[Chet]

Then by your logic, there is no point in improving the O-Line because Josh can put up 30-40 points with anyone blocking for him.

Just concentrate on the defense and leave the offense to Allen.

Of course, we have fire our incompetent GM, Coach, and Defensive Coordinator first.
Actually that’s the exact opposite of what I said.

I am, however, on board for moving on from Marty Schottenheimer and Leslie Frazier

[swiper]

Actually that’s the exact opposite of what I said.

I am, however, on board for moving on from Marty Schottenheimer and Leslie Frazier

What does Marty Schottenheimer have to do with anything? Not cool poking at dead people. Did I miss something?

[Forward_Lateral]

What does Marty Schottenheimer have to do with anything? Not cool poking at dead people. Did I miss something?
He's calling McDermott that. He's trying to be funny and witty, but he's really just a slack jawed yokel

[Bill Cody]

Brown came from a small school and was thrust into frontline NFL action his first year. Then he had to undergo off-season surgery on his back which kept him from developing his strength and conditioning.

Next year will tell us what we need to know.

I hope you're right. But he really has been the same guy so far. Mauler in the run game and a turnstile in pass pro. IMO he isn't getting overpowered he just has poor technique in pass pro. Either way I agree it's fish or cut bait next season.

[Chet]

He's calling McDermott that. He's trying to be funny and witty, but he's really just a slack jawed yokel

^campy, aww shucks just happy to be here fans are so cringey. Every fan base has them.

Do you have a better comp for McDermott? Because the parallels are eerie

[Woodman]

hmmm...how long is not too early?

4 years.

[Oaf]

Then by your logic, there is no point in improving the O-Line because Josh can put up 30-40 points with anyone blocking for him.
Just concentrate on the defense and leave the offense to Allen.
That's an interesting take. Allow Allen's escapability to let you underinvest in the line and spend elsewhere.

I think quality OL is the best way to improve the run and pass game together, and extend JA's lifespan.

[kgun12]

Both the Giants and Chiefs have Probowlers and/or All-Pros on their lines. Giants have great young talent at the OT position while the Chiefs interior OL is the antithesis of the **** we trot out there

it not working especially in KC. Mahomes make the highlight film almost every week for some crazy escape play. And let’s not forget Burrows is one of the most sack Quarterbacks in the league and they revamped their entire line this year.

[kingJofNYC]

it not working especially in KC. Mahomes make the highlight film almost every week for some crazy escape play. And let’s not forget Burrows is one of the most sack Quarterbacks in the league and they revamped their entire line this year.

Burrow is interesting because the last several weeks of the season he was not getting sacked, but that probably is related to throwing shorter routes.

[John Doe]

That's an interesting take. Allow Allen's escapability to let you underinvest in the line and spend elsewhere.

I think quality OL is the best way to improve the run and pass game together, and extend JA's lifespan.

I think that we should upgrade the O-line too. Getting rid of all five starters is not the answer. I think that we should upgrade every position, including the backup QBs.

But, if we do not spend a first round draft pick on O-line and we were to keep the 5 starters together, then a lower round pick at the position will have a hard time cracking the starting line-up.

[Typ0]

Our OLine has been better this season ... but the depth isn't there.

[Mace]

That's an interesting take. Allow Allen's escapability to let you underinvest in the line and spend elsewhere.

I think quality OL is the best way to improve the run and pass game together, and extend JA's lifespan.

Improving the OL was supposedly their goal this season though. I agree with you, but it seems to be an issue when you go out of your way to sign Saffold at this stage of his career, move Bates from where he was good, don't cover center in case of Morse getting harmed again, and keep hoping Spencer Brown suddenly measures up to his measurables and hire an OL coach largely known for throwing beach chairs at kids here, because he's experienced.

Dunno this is how I'd have gone about protecting Allen. I'd have probably brought Williams back and tried to find a couple promising recruits, specifically at center, and right tackle in case Brown had more issues, and neither of them are Bobby Hart or the other generic fa's because they're vets.

Looks more like they shot themselves in the foot instead of gaining anything, imho.

[Woodman]

Our OLine has been better this season ... but the depth isn't there.

Agreed and IMO ..... Ike B. was an important part of that depth.

We will probably move on from Saffold JMO.

[Oaf]

Improving the OL was supposedly their goal this season though. I agree with you, but it seems to be an issue when you go out of your way to sign Saffold at this stage of his career, move Bates from where he was good, don't cover center in case of Morse getting harmed again, and keep hoping Spencer Brown suddenly measures up to his measurables and hire an OL coach largely known for throwing beach chairs at kids here, because he's experienced.

Dunno this is how I'd have gone about protecting Allen. I'd have probably brought Williams back and tried to find a couple promising recruits, specifically at center, and right tackle in case Brown had more issues, and neither of them are Bobby Hart or the other generic fa's because they're vets.

Looks more like they shot themselves in the foot instead of gaining anything, imho.

Can Beane get you on as consultant? I don't think it was rocket science either.

[Mad Max]

Can Beane get you on as consultant? I don't think it was rocket science either.
I hope Beane’s not backburnering developing a top tier OL (doesn’t have to be the best, but top 10 at least as opposed to the bottom 10 they are currently) because of Josh’ escapability

we are not going to get another Josh Allen. Protect him at all costs. Bring home Lombardi.

[YardRat]

I hope Beane’s not backburnering developing a top tier OL (doesn’t have to be the best, but top 10 at least as opposed to the bottom 10 they are currently) because of Josh’ escapability

we are not going to get another Josh Allen. Protect him at all costs. Bring home Lombardi.

It certainly doesn't appear to be a priority. Signing Morse and extending Dawkins aside, the other three positions and the depth have been "let's just make do" and call it good. It kind of mirrors the" "be just good enough to bend and hope you don't break" philosophy on defense.

[DraftBoy]

If there is one thing I can't figure out with Beane it's what the roster building philosophy is supposed to be with the OL. It doesn't seem to make any sense or have any consistency to it.

[senseofdoom]

Per PFF

With their recent injuries, the Bengals OL is actually worse that the Bills.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmthMThXoAYCSBj?format=jpg&name=largehttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmtgAuEX0AAfmti?format=jpg&name=large

[senseofdoom]

KC for reference. Looks like their OL revamp turned out pretty well

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmuUrzQXkAMjdO7?format=jpg&name=large

[Mad Max]

KC for reference. Looks like their OL revamp turned out pretty well

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmuUrzQXkAMjdO7?format=jpg&name=large
KC did it pretty quickly as well…drafted Creed Humphrey and Smith and got Brown Jr. and Thuney via FA


We can too in the same way. Let Saffold walk plug Bates back into LG, between draft and FA get a Center, Guard and Tackle. Not easy but doable and definitely should improve this mediocre line even if you have to plug two rookies in there.

For example get Kaleb Mcgary (break the bank for this Mcgary) or Mike Mcglinchey for RT in FA (Brown goes to the Bench, maybe he improves at worst he becomes a serviceable backup) then draft C and G.

[senseofdoom]

KC did it pretty quickly as well…drafted Creed Humphrey and Smith and got Brown Jr. and Thuney via FA


We can too in the same way. Let Saffold walk plug Bates back into LG, between draft and FA get a Center, Guard and Tackle. Not easy but doable and definitely should improve this mediocre line even if you have to plug two rookies in there.

For example get Kaleb Mcgary (break the bank for this Mcgary) or Mike Mcglinchey for RT in FA (Brown goes to the Bench, maybe he improves at worst he becomes a serviceable backup) then draft C and G.

I think the draft is the more likely option. The only way I can see having enough resources to spend big on OL is if Poyer and Edmunds walk and that just leaves more holes to fill.

I'm kinda curious to see how Brown would do if they pushed him inside. It seems like most of his problems at tackle are dealing with speed rushes around the end and a kick inside would take that right off the table. Hard to imagine he'd be any worse

[Mad Max]

I think the draft is the more likely option. The only way I can see having enough resources to spend big on OL is if Poyer and Edmunds walk and that just leaves more holes to fill.

I'm kinda curious to see how Brown would do if they pushed him inside. It seems like most of his problems at tackle are dealing with speed rushes around the end and a kick inside would take that right off the table. Hard to imagine he'd be any worse
Money can be manipulated. I trust Beane on that. As an aside Poyer sending cryptic dls about his Bills future.

unfortunately I don’t think Brown can work as G. He’s too big. Only one guard in history has been that big…Robert Gallery after he failed as a RT…then he failed as a G.

[senseofdoom]

Money can be manipulated. I trust Beane on that. As an aside Poyer sending cryptic dls about his Bills future.

unfortunately I don’t think Brown can work as G. He’s too big. Only one guard in history has been that big…Robert Gallery after he failed as a RT…then he failed as a G.

Money can be manipulated no doubt but at a certain point you're mortgaging the future to get the deals done. Draft picks contributing on rookie contracts are the best way to keep costs down long-term.

I don't think you can disqualify him solely on height but I know it's not ideal. I wouldn't put him in front of Kyler Murray but Josh is a big enough where it might be doable.

[Mad Max]

Money can be manipulated no doubt but at a certain point you're mortgaging the future to get the deals done. Draft picks contributing on rookie contracts are the best way to keep costs down long-term.

I don't think you can disqualify him solely on height but I know it's not ideal. I wouldn't put him in front of Kyler Murray but Josh is a big enough where it might be doable.
The reason you don’t have 6-8 guards isn’t only because of QB sight lines (which would be horrendous even for Josh) it’s because their leverage would be highly disadvantageous so I highly doubt we ever see him moved to OG.

Gotta get lucky with a pick or two sure BUT it will take luck and time for rookies to get NFL ready. I personally don’t care about mortgaging the future 4-5 years hence. Win Lombardi Now, while Josh is in his prime. The window will most likely close sooner than any of us like.

[Mace]

If there is one thing I can't figure out with Beane it's what the roster building philosophy is supposed to be with the OL. It doesn't seem to make any sense or have any consistency to it.
Patch, poach and pray.

Patch with a couple name guys. Poach young guys and discards other teams can't keep, but had the savvy to draft, and Pray some of them step up.

We sift through discards. Only two OL we actually drafted that are active on game day, are Dawkins and Brown.

Put Bates back at LG, for a start. Dunno if Doyle is any good to cover Brown. Dunno if Boettger holds up at RG, but it's worth a shot.

Got a feeling they keep the declining Saffold, leave Bates at RG, Morse comes back despite his better judgement, and they figure next year will be the year Brown stays healthy and emerges. They'll sift through more fa's and udfa's, maybe draft a center in the 6th who would probably be a better guard but doesn't make it in the pro game anyway, though they'll try for a couple years.

[Mad Max]

Patch, poach and pray.

Patch with a couple name guys. Poach young guys and discards other teams can't keep, but had the savvy to draft, and Pray some of them step up.

We sift through discards. Only two OL we actually drafted that are active on game day, are Dawkins and Brown.

Put Bates back at LG, for a start. Dunno if Doyle is any good to cover Brown. Dunno if Boettger holds up at RG, but it's worth a shot.

Got a feeling they keep the declining Saffold, leave Bates at RG, Morse comes back despite his better judgement, and they figure next year will be the year Brown stays healthy and emerges. They'll sift through more fa's and udfa's, maybe draft a center in the 6th who would probably be a better guard but doesn't make it in the pro game anyway, though they'll try for a couple years.

Is that you OPi? How’d you hack Mace’s account ? :laughing:

but seriously, I’m very optimistic about real change. Beane’s no dummy he has to recognize the mediocrity of this group and will do something about it.

[Mace]

Is that you OPi? How’d you hack Mace’s account ? :laughing:

but seriously, I’m very optimistic about real change. Beane’s no dummy he has to recognize the mediocrity of this group and will do something about it.

I kind of keep thinking they have a scouting issue they think inadequate coaching can resolve.

Remember, they turned over 4 of 5 OL positions in front of Allen with vet fa's early in his career because they didn't seem to know how to do it otherwise. This was supposed to be the protect Allen year and they kind of didn't do that.

Back to the well.

[Mad Max]

I kind of keep thinking they have a scouting issue they think inadequate coaching can resolve.

Remember, they turned over 4 of 5 OL positions in front of Allen with vet fa's early in his career because they didn't seem to know how to do it otherwise. This was supposed to be the protect Allen year and they kind of didn't do that.

Back to the well.
Quite possible. The Cody Ford whiff and lack of recognition of Wyatt Teller’s talent completely stalled the unit’s growth. Imagine we kept Teller and hit with the Ford pick?

they have to get younger more expensive FA and draft earlier than they have been (Ford was 2nd round. Every other non factor OL drafted after him was a 5th rounder or later)

[Mace]

Quite possible. The Cody Ford whiff and lack of recognition of Wyatt Teller’s talent completely stalled the unit’s growth. Imagine we kept Teller and hit with the Ford pick?

they have to get younger more expensive FA and draft earlier than they have been (Ford was 2nd round. Every other non factor OL drafted after him was a 5th rounder or later)


I think they have to recognize talent and plug them into a system where they specialize at a role. Everyone doing everything everywhere, whenever, and musical chairs if they don't is just not a way to take care of your franchise qb imho, and expect best results from people everywhere, whenever is just not viable. It's great to have flexible talent at some positions like g/c and swing tackle, but you're just not maximizing if you dilute everyone from the start by not giving them the chance to get real good at anything they happen to have proven to do well.

This has been going on too long in front of a franchise qb gem, imho.

[Oaf]

KC did it pretty quickly as well…drafted Creed Humphrey and Smith and got Brown Jr. and Thuney via FA


We can too in the same way. Let Saffold walk plug Bates back into LG, between draft and FA get a Center, Guard and Tackle. Not easy but doable and definitely should improve this mediocre line even if you have to plug two rookies in there.

For example get Kaleb Mcgary (break the bank for this Mcgary) or Mike Mcglinchey for RT in FA (Brown goes to the Bench, maybe he improves at worst he becomes a serviceable backup) then draft C and G.

Thanks for sharing the graphics, senseofdoom. We took a second DE over Humphery and it's looking pretty terrible unless Boogie or Groot makes a pro bowl.

I'm down w/ the plan MM proposed but am pessimistically feeling they'll follow Mace's negative scenario as well.



Put Bates back at LG, for a start. Dunno if Doyle is any good to cover Brown. Dunno if Boettger holds up at RG, but it's worth a shot.

Got a feeling they keep the declining Saffold, leave Bates at RG, Morse comes back despite his better judgement, and they figure next year will be the year Brown stays healthy and emerges. They'll sift through more fa's and udfa's, maybe draft a center in the 6th who would probably be a better guard but doesn't make it in the pro game anyway, though they'll try for a couple years.

[Woodman]

We need another Billy Shaw.

Find another Jason Peters.

[YardRat]

I think they have to recognize talent and plug them into a system where they specialize at a role. Everyone doing everything everywhere, whenever, and musical chairs if they don't is just not a way to take care of your franchise qb imho, and expect best results from people everywhere, whenever is just not viable. It's great to have flexible talent at some positions like g/c and swing tackle, but you're just not maximizing if you dilute everyone from the start by not giving them the chance to get real good at anything they happen to have proven to do well.

This has been going on too long in front of a franchise qb gem, imho.

The two guys that are generally considered the best are Morse and Dawkins. The two guys that haven't been shuffled around and have been able to stick with a single position.

Huh. Go figure.

[John Doe]

The two guys that are generally considered the best are Morse and Dawkins. The two guys that haven't been shuffled around and have been able to stick with a single position.

Huh. Go figure.

????

Saffold has played at left guard for most of his career.

The only position that Brown has played in right tackle.

The only guy to have been moved around is Bates.

[Mad Max]

????

Saffold has played at left guard for most of his career.

The only position that Brown has played in right tackle.

The only guy to have been moved around is Bates.
Probably referring to the backups. Quessy, Van Roten, Boettger, Doyle all bounce around the line never getting an opportunity at the position they may be best at and developing there into a potential starter.

[John Doe]

Probably referring to the backups. Quessy, Van Roten, Boettger, Doyle all bounce around the line never getting an opportunity at the position they may be best at and developing there into a potential starter.

Van Roten and Boettger are interior players - they may have cross-trained at tackle in training camp, but to my knowledge they have not been moved to tackle.

Quessenberry has been a tackle for most of his career. He also cross-trained at other positions in camp but has been the swing tackle since the start of the season.

Is cross training the problem? They usually only carry 8 offensive linemen on the gameday roster. IMO It would be foolish not to cross train them.

This whole argument that the coaches are pretty much incompetent does not hold water for a team with a 14-3 record.

[Mad Max]

Van Roten and Boettger are interior players - they may have cross-trained at tackle in training camp, but to my knowledge they have not been moved to tackle.

Quessenberry has been a tackle for most of his career. He also cross-trained at other positions in camp but has been the swing tackle since the start of the season.

Is cross training the problem? They usually only carry 8 offensive linemen on the gameday roster. IMO It would be foolish not to cross train them.

This whole argument that the coaches are pretty much incompetent does not hold water for a team with a 14-3 record.
Cross training is great/essential. But so is developing a pipeline of starters. This we have not done well enough as evidenced by our bottom third OL (that is probably buoyed by our Cyborg QB)

I think a lot of folks (myself included) are critical of the coaching not because we truly feel that they’re incompetent (even through we may verbalize our belief that they are) rather that they could be and should be better.

the team and it’s fans have Lombardi aspirations not just good record and playoff/Super Bowl failure aspirations.

we’ve been there already too many times. to finally bring home Lombardi the coaching has to be better than good enough to win a bunch of games. Marc Levy did that (a very good coach)…he/his coaches were always out coached by better coaches when it mattered most.

[John Doe]

Cross training is great/essential. But so is developing a pipeline of starters. This we have not done well enough as evidenced by our bottom third OL (that is probably buoyed by our Cyborg QB)

I think a lot of folks (myself included) are critical of the coaching not because we truly feel that they’re incompetent (even through we may verbalize our belief that they are) rather that they could be and should be better.

the team and it’s fans have Lombardi aspirations not just good record and playoff/Super Bowl failure aspirations.

we’ve been there already too many times. to finally bring home Lombardi the coaching has to be better than good enough to win a bunch of games. Marc Levy did that (a very good coach)…he/his coaches were always out coached by better coaches when it mattered most.
IMO offensive lines throughout the league have the least quality depth in comparison to other positions. The teams that have created a pipeline of o-line starters are few and far between. If they want an upgrade, then a high round pick in the upcoming draft is the way to go. But, there may be an even bigger hole somewhere else, like if we need to go after a new middle linebacker, or safety, or running back. I think that Beane will address o-line in some fashion, and I also think that Brown is capable of improving.

[Mad Max]

IMO offensive lines throughout the league have the least quality depth in comparison to other positions. The teams that have created a pipeline of o-line starters are few and far between. If they want an upgrade, then a high round pick in the upcoming draft is the way to go. But, there may be an even bigger hole somewhere else, like if we need to go after a new middle linebacker, or safety, or running back. I think that Beane will address o-line in some fashion, and I also think that Brown is capable of improving.

This will come down to team building priorities. I for one hope they sell out in the direction of the OL if need be to protect Josh.

If they build a reasonably solid wall around Josh (and get a true running game built) I don’t think it matters if the D backslides a little. The O will drop 40 on all comers. So what if the D allows 30.

[YardRat]

????

Saffold has played at left guard for most of his career.

The only position that Brown has played in right tackle.

The only guy to have been moved around is Bates.

1. I'm talking about more than this season.

2. Bates fit in between Dawkins and Morse, Saffold didn't play with them until this season, maybe Beane should have gotten a RG instead of a LG and moving Bates.

3. I don't mind flexibility as a priority with back-ups, but the starting five should be set in stone.

[swiper]

^campy, aww shucks just happy to be here fans are so cringey. Every fan base has them.

Do you have a better comp for McDermott? Because the parallels are eerie

McDermott isn't even a little bit like Schottenheimer.

[Mace]

1. I'm talking about more than this season.

2. Bates fit in between Dawkins and Morse, Saffold didn't play with them until this season, maybe Beane should have gotten a RG instead of a LG and moving Bates.

3. I don't mind flexibility as a priority with back-ups, but the starting five should be set in stone.

The backup center, Van Roten has played 10 years at guard, the backup guard, Hart, spent 7 years at tackle, and Quessenberry has played both tackle and guard, and when the Bills announced his signing, it was that they added a veteran guard on their official website.

I've also said flexibility is good at some spots, but you need a direct line of ascension at others without moving three people to different positions because you aren't sure they are at their best one. I'm not going to jump on Kromer for this, because I'm not sure he'd do it, but it's been a line philosophy under their history trying to build a line in front of their franchise gem, which is now years deep.

If Kromer breaks that chain, I'm fine with it.

[Woodman]

2. Bates fit in between Dawkins and Morse, Saffold didn't play with them until this season, maybe Beane should have gotten a RG instead of a LG and moving Bates.


Spot on!!

That move unjelled the line if there's such a thing.

Put Bates back where he belongs at LG where he plays his best.

Damn I wish Ike was 100% ready .... I'd slide him in at RG ....RT Brown for now.

[Chet]

McDermott isn't even a little bit like Schottenheimer.
Again, you’re welcome to provide a better HC Comp. Maybe Leslie Frazier from his Vikings days?:rofl: