The Bills are not talented. Josh Allen is talented.

[Canadian'eh!]

Time to face the reality.

This team wins game because Josh Allen is a great player.

The WRs besides Diggs have been disappointing.
The OL continues to be terrible. There's a reason we can never run consistently.
All the investment in CB? pointles
All the investment in the D line not named Von Miller? pointless.
Our MLB can't tackle.
Constantly out coached, especially the D.

I'd put this whole team under a microscope.

A good coach will build a SB winner around Josh Allen. They are failing him.

[BillsFanCupp38]

Agreed 100 percent. Too much money is being invested on the side of the ball that has been neutered by NFL rules. Invest in your best player and the side of the ball that wins game the old mantra that offense sells tickets and defense wins championships is no longer the case. KC and Cinci understand this because they have offensive minded HCs

[sahlensguy]

Time to face the reality.

This team wins game because Josh Allen is a great player.

The WRs besides Diggs have been disappointing.
The OL continues to be terrible. There's a reason we can never run consistently.
All the investment in CB? pointles
All the investment in the D line not named Von Miller? pointless.
Our MLB can't tackle.
Constantly out coached, especially the D.

I'd put this whole team under a microscope.

A good coach will build a SB winner around Josh Allen. They are failing him.

Giving the keys to the Ferrari to a rookie OC with a Defensive minded HC was a catastrophe.

If that is not wasting Josh Allen's talent, I don't know what is and what a slap in the face to the rest of the team it was.

[GreedoII]

so why were they the #2 offense again?

[sukie]

OC is an issue. A big one but he didn’t make Davis suck.

kinda glad for this pasting. It makes the 3-13 meaningless when you thud like this.

This game removes the blinders that hid issues buried in 13 seconds last year.

[Novacane]

so why were they the #2 offense again?

Josh Allen.

[Canadian'eh!]

so why were they the #2 offense again?

Because Josh Allen is a top 3 player.

There's SOME talent outside him and Diggs. Knox is ok. Davis is ok but disappointed overall this year. Singletary and Cook look ok.

Josh makes everyone better. The OL especially..... there's a reason we can never run the ball well. Josh makes them better by using his mobility so well.

[GreedoII]

thanks for clarifying

[Borosai]

If it weren't for Josh, the team's rushing yards would be much lower, and sacks would be much higher. He has made the team look better than it is, even with the mistakes he makes. That's why they think they can trot out the same **** every game: Josh will win the game anyway.

Where were those designed Allen runs today? The ones that deflate a defense because he just keeps beating you with his legs and arm, no matter what you do. Nah, let's just pass deep. No point in running Josh in the playoffs... that's what the regular season is for.

Can you imagine a real OC with Josh? And with a good offensive line? And a HC who doesn't shrivel up in the biggest games? That's what I want to see.

[imbondz]

I’m done with Frazier too.

[Mace]

You know, I don't feel bad saying Allen looked like crap today, and if he doesn't get offseason surgery for something I don't know about, there's something real wrong with him, deep into a career in which he's evolved by working on his game and they'd all better figure it out real quick or this is a study on wasted potential. It doesn't matter, but I'm not feeling forgiving.

[Novacane]

If any team who passed on JA had taken him before we had the chance McDermott and Beane wouldn't even be employed here anymore.

[sahlensguy]

Josh is uber talented, but is he a good fit?

[Mad Max]

Josh is uber talented, but is he a good fit?

?
He’s the best fit.
anyone that’s doesn’t fit him, show them door. Build everything around him.

that’s like asking is Michael Jordan a good fit?

[sukie]

You know, I don't feel bad saying Allen looked like crap today, and if he doesn't get offseason surgery for something I don't know about, there's something real wrong with him, deep into a career in which he's evolved by working on his game and they'd all better figure it out real quick or this is a study on wasted potential. It doesn't matter, but I'm not feeling forgiving.

where as a unit would you rank the WRs and TE on this team? I’ll go further. Davis tricked us last playoff loss. so next year… fantasy drafts around the country… after Diggs what buff WR is being selected outside of the final 3 filler rounds?

Knox will be selected. I bet if there were true WR threats… Knox would kinda disappear stat wise.

[sahlensguy]

?
He’s the best fit.
anyone that’s doesn’t fit him, show them door. Build everything around him.

that’s like asking is Michael Jordan a good fit?

Well I agree that anyone that doesn't fit around him should be gone and they should build around him. But to be the best fit, Josh needs to do his part and prove it.


There is no superman in team.

[Mad Max]

Well I agree that anyone that doesn't fit around him should be gone and they should build around him. But to be the best fit, Josh needs to do his part and prove it.

There is no superman in team.

He plays Superman as often as he does only because he’s got too many Jokers surrounding him.
the line constantly/inevitably caves in around him squeezing him out of the pocket trying to make something happen (he does stupid ish often, sure, but it’s because he knows it’s him or nothing.
then add our idiota OC doesn’t believe in running the ball, throwing screens, throwing slants, gadgets…making the offense much easier/very easy to contain by opposing playoff quality defenses.

[Mr. Pink]

The lack of a running game, be it Singletary and Cook suck or that Dorsey doesn't even call running plays, is a HUGE problem for this offense.

They are extremely predictable.

[Woodman]

?
He’s the best fit.
anyone that’s doesn’t fit him, show them door. Build everything around him.

that’s like asking is Michael Jordan a good fit?

+ 1,000

[Cali512]

I dont think this is getting talked about enough but Edmunds and poyer were AWFUL during the playoffs. Edmunds was completely lost, and his communication with poyer was awful. They either both went to the same zone, or neither went to the zone.

[Historian]

Josh IS Superman, but he's only one of 53.

They are asking him to do way too much. When your quarterback is your leading rusher, that's a problem.

This game always has been, and always will be won in the trenches. Besides Dawkins and Morse, who on our O line is even worthy of playing on an NFL team?

Miami exposed our weaknesses. Blitz the crap out of Allen, because the line is not very good.

Add to that some questionable, if not odd play calling, and that's a recipe for disaster.

I'm still trying to figure out how they won 14 games, because they do not play sound fundamental football.

I think this offseason we need to shore up both lines, and find a legitimate #2 receiver, a big dude with strong hands.

Unfortunately this team is leveraged to the hilt to go on a spending spree.

It always amazed me how whenever a guy was up for a big payday in New England, they traded his ass away to some also-ran, and the next guy up would step in and win the Super Bowl at half the price.

It's why they were successful for twenty years and have six Lombardi trophies.

The Bills need to develop that mindset.

[YardRat]

Josh IS Superman, but he's only one of 53.

They are asking him to do way too much. When your quarterback is your leading rusher, that's a problem.

This game always has been, and always will be won in the trenches. Besides Dawkins and Morse, who on our O line is even worthy of playing on an NFL team?

Miami exposed our weaknesses. Blitz the crap out of Allen, because the line is not very good.

Add to that some questionable, if not odd play calling, and that's a recipe for disaster.

I'm still trying to figure out how they won 14 games, because they do not play sound fundamental football.

I think this offseason we need to shore up both lines, and find a legitimate #2 receiver, a big dude with strong hands.

Unfortunately this team is leveraged to the hilt to go on a spending spree.

It always amazed me how whenever a guy was up for a big payday in New England, they traded his ass away to some also-ran, and the next guy up would step in and win the Super Bowl at half the price.

It's why they were successful for twenty years and have six Lombardi trophies.

The Bills need to develop that mindset.

Josh is part of the problem, and they can start that mindset with Tremaine Edmunds. Maybe Oliver, too. Cincinnati literally fielded a second-string offensive line, our defensive line should be embarrassed. Of course, part of that is the difference in the QB's also. Burrow has become a calculating surgeon, Josh won't let go of the swashbuckler when the defense is daring him to. And that's the difference between being a regular season glory boy and a legitimate contender.

[TacklingDummy]

Josh IS Superman, but he's only one of 53.

I'm still trying to figure out how they won 14 games, because they do not play sound fundamental football. price. You answered your own question. Unfortunately 3 of the regular season losses could be pointed at the same thing. I don't blame Josh for the loss against the Bengals. Sure he could have played better but so could everyone on the o-line and D-line.



It always amazed me how whenever a guy was up for a big payday in New England, they traded his ass away to some also-ran, and the next guy up would step in and win the Super Bowl at half the price.

The most important part TB12 had a better supporting cast than JA17. When it mattered it always seemed like New England could get after the Quarterback. The Bills were ranked high in pass rush before Miller went down. He went down and their pass rush was one of the worst in the league.

[Forward_Lateral]

Josh is part of the problem, and they can start that mindset with Tremaine Edmunds. Maybe Oliver, too. Cincinnati literally fielded a second-string offensive line, our defensive line should be embarrassed. Of course, part of that is the difference in the QB's also. Burrow has become a calculating surgeon, Josh won't let go of the swashbuckler when the defense is daring him to. And that's the difference between being a regular season glory boy and a legitimate contender.
Josh didn't have time to slice and dice anything. Cincy actually played defense, and got to the QB. Buffalo did neither. It's easy to carve a part a defense that gets zero pressure.

[Woodman]

The ineffective pass rush we produced yesterday made me wonder ..... were we wearing our slippers.

No pressure against 3 backup OL .... was it that Burrow was better prepared and delivered the ball in a more timely manner or were we wearing the wrong footgear.

Josh needs the best QB coach we can get him in addition to the best OL we can get in front of him.

Was holding the ball too long an issue?

[Woodman]

I dont think this is getting talked about enough but Edmunds and poyer were AWFUL during the playoffs. Edmunds was completely lost, and his communication with poyer was awful. They either both went to the same zone, or neither went to the zone.

We will definitely need to shake this defense up quite a bit .... players and coaches.

[Historian]

Was holding the ball too long an issue?

That was the case yesterday, yes.

Most of us have been clamoring for some shorter passes all year, while they continue to throw the bomb, and put themselves in low percentage down and distances.

Burrow beat us the same way Brady beat us for twenty years....short passes that were delivered quickly.

[Forward_Lateral]

When WRs run poor or wrong routes, constantly, the QB is going to lose faith in them, and look somewhere else.

Period.

[Woodman]

When incumbent Jonah Williams became the third starting offensive lineman to get ruled out of the lineup last week, the Bengals turned to a mostly disappointing second-year lineman, Jackson Carman, who’d be starting his first career game at left tackle. The old man of the line, center Ted Karras, told me post-game, “I told the guys this week, ‘The pressure’s off, guys. No one thinks we can do it. We have a chance to go be heroes.’ And we did.”

Then Karras thought for a second. “Well, gotta give a shoutout to the defense as well. Come on, holding Josh Allen to 10 points? At home? In the playoffs? In the sleet? With that crowd against us?”

Good points. But the Achilles of the Cincinnati team was supposed to be, left to right, Carman, Cordell Volson (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/67705/cordell-volson), Karras, Max Scharping (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/51666/max-scharping) and Hakeem Adeniji (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/58507/hakeem-adeniji). And so what happened? Burrow tightened up his game, throwing the ball at a breakneck average of 2.50 seconds from the time of snap in 39 pass drops; on one throw (I’ll explain), he hit Ja’Marr Chase in a startling time of 1.10 seconds after taking the snap—the fifth-fastest time for a third-down conversion this season, per Next Gen Stats.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/23/fmia-divisional-brock-purdy-49ers-bengals-eagles/

[justasportsfan]

I disagree. This team is talented. We just took a few steps back with a rookie OC.

[notacon]

Jesus. The Bills have one of the most talented rosters in the NFL.

The idea that “the Bills are not talented....” is just dumb and not very realistic.

[justasportsfan]

Josh is part of the problem, and they can start that mindset with Tremaine Edmunds. Maybe Oliver, too. Cincinnati literally fielded a second-string offensive line, our defensive line should be embarrassed. Of course, part of that is the difference in the QB's also. Burrow has become a calculating surgeon, Josh won't let go of the swashbuckler when the defense is daring him to. And that's the difference between being a regular season glory boy and a legitimate contender.

Agreed. someone needs to keep Joshs emotions in check. Its what keeps him playing heroball and l;ooking for the big play. Needs to play smart to go along with his talent.

[Woodman]

I disagree. This team is talented. We just took a few steps back with a rookie OC.

Agree it's on the coaches to game plan.

Defensively if you don't wish to blitz you better play a little more sticky.

The injury report screamed what the approach would be for the Bengals.

Quick release to cover up the weakness of 3 backup OL.

Just a terrible recognition of what had to be done.

[Woodman]

Time to face the reality.

This team wins game because Josh Allen is a great player.

A good coach will build a SB winner around Josh Allen.
I sure hope so!!

[Woodman]

When WRs run poor or wrong routes, constantly, the QB is going to lose faith in them, and look somewhere else.

Period.

That's how it works.

[Woodman]

I disagree. This team is talented. We just took a few steps back with a rookie OC.

Spot on !!

[DraftBoy]

When WRs run poor or wrong routes, constantly, the QB is going to lose faith in them, and look somewhere else.

Period.

Gabe Davis is one of the worst route runners on this team and he had issues with drops all year but Josh kept throwing him the ball. Your lack of faith argument doesn’t appear to hold much water.

[YardRat]

Josh didn't have time to slice and dice anything. Cincy actually played defense, and got to the QB. Buffalo did neither. It's easy to carve a part a defense that gets zero pressure.
Josh isn't getting rid of the ball quick enough, he has open receivers on shorter routes.

When WRs run poor or wrong routes, constantly, the QB is going to lose faith in them, and look somewhere else. Period.
Yes, because Diggs' hissy-fit was probably "I can't get open to save my life because I'm running poor routes and the OC's play design sucks!!!"

Face reality.

Dan Marino's fatal flaw was when things got tough he pitched the running game and short passes and tried to do everything himself, and that's why he consistently lost in the playoffs (or failed to make it at all) and never made it back to the Super Bowl after his first trip early in his career. Like it or not, that's Josh Allen's 'comp' right now and that's not good.

[sukie]

Josh isn't getting rid of the ball quick enough, he has open receivers on shorter routes.

Yes, because Diggs' hissy-fit was probably "I can't get open to save my life because I'm running poor routes and the OC's play design sucks!!!"

Face reality.

Dan Marino's fatal flaw was when things got tough he pitched the running game and short passes and tried to do everything himself, and that's why he consistently lost in the playoffs (or failed to make it at all) and never made it back to the Super Bowl after his first trip early in his career. Like it or not, that's Josh Allen's 'comp' right now and that's not good.

Marino didn’t pitch the running game, he never had one ever and that isn’t in him.

OC needed to shorten the game like Cincy did. Quick short routes and runs. Runs set up play action that gave up intermediate routes. 85% of the time ball was out in les than 2 or close to that.

with footing bad, where were all the RB over middle tosses? I read somewhere Hines was in on under 10 plays since joining Bills… WTF?

When weather sucked Thurman caught more balls. Cook and Singletary both can catch better than McKenz

this was lack of game plan by Dorsey. Maybe his picking plays at rando off a laminated sheet works with Josh in ideal conditions but there should be a plan B.

the first 3 and out plays were it. Obviously no plan of attack . It’s like first down run.

second and 8 (close eyes while assistant mixes up the cards) pick one. Incomplete pass outside

3rd 8 (see above)

punt

game over

[Historian]

Right Suk.

And against lesser competition, that can work.

But not in the playoffs, in January, in Buffalo.

What happened to the Bills Sunday reminded me of what happened to Green Bay at home against Tampa a couple years back.

Got out-muscled at home in the elements.

[sukie]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelFFlorio/status/1617562321391620098

nails it… keep reading down. One after the next. Florio says it perfectly.

[DraftBoy]

https://mobile.twitter.com/MichaelFFlorio/status/1617562321391620098

nails it… keep reading down. One after the next. Florio says it perfectly.

Florio gets a lot right there about Beane and McDermott but you can tell he doesn’t actually watch the film and the plays.

[TigerJ]

The talent level of the team is not as high as everybody thought at the start of the season, not by a long shot. There are some talented players. I'm not in full agreement with the OP about the exact list of talented players, but there will always be disagreements about that sort of thing.