Wholesale changes needed

[Buffalogic]

Both lines absolutely exposed.

Both coordinators need to be fired. Dorsey is absolute trash. Frazier is a hollow shell.

Nobody with an expiring contract should be brought back.

[GreedoII]

fire them all! Least this one is easy to forget.....see you degenerates next year!

[acehole]

I totally agree with this. This was coaching failure. Frasier is way to conservative and we should have ran the ball. Baltimores game plan was solid.

[Cali512]

There needs to be public pressure.

Ive been saying for years. We beat up on bad QBs, we had for YEARS. The last 2 years of beating mahomes in the regular seasons are COMPLETE anomaly

[BillsFanCupp38]

With McDermott being a defensive coach he should be able to get a lot more out of defense with a lot less invested. I agree let all defensive free agents go, invest everything into OLine and wr. Make due with sub par talent on D. McDermott is a defensive coach, he should get the best out of a less talented D. If he can't then he's got to go. He's got one more year to prove it.

[Buffalogic]

To be a fly on the wall in that locker room right now. It feels like they quit in the third quarter. They were getting whipped so badly on the lines they gave up early.

[Discotrish]

To be a fly on the wall in that locker room right now. It feels like they quit in the third quarter. They were getting whipped so badly on the lines they gave up early.

They didn't even bother kicking the field goal when there was still a lot of the 4th quarter left. It was like they wanted to get it over with.

[swiper]

McDermott needs to go. He does nothing. Call Sean Payton.

[kingJofNYC]

McDermott needs to go. He does nothing. Call Sean Payton.

Payton would be great here, his smug ass would be awesome, especially when he only won 1 ring a decade and a half ago with a HOF Qb, lol.

[Buffalogic]

Here's the FA we have for next year. All can get packing as far as I'm concerned.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/buffalo-bills/

[notacon]

Nonsense thread.

[Buffalogic]

Nonsense thread.
No apologists need apply. It's about what this team needs to move forward.

[sukie]

Team was 13-3 and only got blown out today… wholesale? Naw. I did say similar things post game as a knee jerk reaction but I thought about this.

load up both lines. Salary cap casualties to do so can be lived with. Load up WR. 2 are needed. I hate the base 4-2-5 when your 4 kinda suck. The 2 won’t stop the run without a good 4 and the 5 is okay provided the 4 is really good.
(see my trend? Fix the 4.)

on Oline you have 5 guys. Can’t have 5 great guys… won’t happen but 1 really solid and 2 great would shore things up… salary cap casualties might happen but the run game is improved and Josh has more time.

WR… how did Diggs EVER break 100 in a game with being dubbed all the time? Need a 3 headed monster… salary cap casualties be damned.


naturally there is the draft but you gotta hit.

dont care for Dorsey. Outside of week 1, he is impatient and hates plays between the numbers…

bigger beef is Leslie’s stubborness. Today to stop mixon… 3 LBs needed (unless you have a bad ass front 4….) see paragraph 2

[Mad Max]

Payton would be great here, his smug ass would be awesome, especially when he only won 1 ring a decade and a half ago with a HOF Qb, lol.
We’ll have to outbid Jerrah Jones for Payton. After the Cowdookies loss Mccarthy isn’t long for his job.

[sukie]

When did Payton win a SB and who was QBing at the time? Wouldn’t you want an offensive coach?

[Buffalogic]

Can Dorsey, bring in frank Reich

[Mad Max]

When did Payton win a SB and who was QBing at the time? Wouldn’t you want an offensive coach?

We’re not getting/bidding for Payton. Anyone who has that dream is going to be disappointed.

[sukie]

Can Dorsey, bring in frank Reich
As what position?

[YardRat]

I don't think 'wholesale changes' need to be made, but Beane and McDermott need to have a Come-to-Jesus meeting with Frazier and Josh.

This team is done going anywhere if they stick with Frazier's mirage of a defense and Allen keeps playing like he's still in Wyoming.

[YardRat]

And I want nothing to do with Sean Payton, he may be more over-rated as a HC than Frazier is as a DC.

[Buffalogic]

The lines were completely inadequate today. Those need to be fixed asap. We need another good wr. Shakir is nice as a third.

Fire Frasier and Dorsey.

[Woodman]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/23/fmia-divisional-brock-purdy-49ers-bengals-eagles/

When incumbent Jonah Williams became the third starting offensive lineman to get ruled out of the lineup last week, the Bengals turned to a mostly disappointing second-year lineman, Jackson Carman, who’d be starting his first career game at left tackle. The old man of the line, center Ted Karras, told me post-game, “I told the guys this week, ‘The pressure’s off, guys. No one thinks we can do it. We have a chance to go be heroes.’ And we did.”
Then Karras thought for a second. “Well, gotta give a shoutout to the defense as well. Come on, holding Josh Allen to 10 points? At home? In the playoffs? In the sleet? With that crowd against us?”
Good points. But the Achilles of the Cincinnati team was supposed to be, left to right, Carman, Cordell Volson (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/67705/cordell-volson), Karras, Max Scharping (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/51666/max-scharping) and Hakeem Adeniji (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/58507/hakeem-adeniji). And so what happened? Burrow tightened up his game, throwing the ball at a breakneck average of 2.50 seconds from the time of snap in 39 pass drops; on one throw (I’ll explain), he hit Ja’Marr Chase in a startling time of 1.10 seconds after taking the snap—the fifth-fastest time for a third-down conversion this season, per Next Gen Stats.

[notacon]

No apologists need apply. It's about what this team needs to move forward.

No “apologist”. Not even close.

sukie hit the nail on the head. (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/262391-Wholesale-changes-needed?p=4999360&viewfull=1#post4999360)..."Team was 13-3 and only got blown out today… wholesale? Naw. I did say similar things post game as a knee jerk reaction but I thought about this”.

Every off-season brings changes to a team. That is the nature of NFL football today, with the cap and free agency. I suspect that the Bills will have similar quantity of changes to last year.

Some of the 2021 players that were not with the team at start of 2022....many of these were starters or had significant percentage of snaps....


Emmanuel Sanders
Cole Beasley
Matt Breida
Jon Feliciano
Daryl Williams
Cody Ford
Star Lotulelei
Harrison Phillips
Vernon Butler
Jerry Huges
Mario Addison
Andre Smith
AJ Klein
Levi Wallace


I’m missing some, these come quickly to mind. That represents 26% of the 53 man roster...gone.

That is a fairly regular off-season turnover for a NFL team today.

No where NEAR “wholesale changes”. You don’t do that for a team like the Bills, with their fourth season with 10+ wins, fourth consecutive second int he playoffs (2nd longest streak behind only KC....only seven teams in the NFL are enjoying two+ consecutive playoffs seasons....you do not blow up teams in this situation).

Yes, changes have to be made. But smart ones. Measured ones. Knee jerk changes are for losers.

[Woodman]

We needed to recognize what the Bengals depended on .... we failed or should I say Frazier failed.

They were hurting on their OL so it shouldn't have been too difficult to figure out what they needed to do to cover up that area.

They had to get the ball out incredibly fast and they did just that.

We needed to play press coverage or at least mix it up.

We failed to recognize what our opponent was going to do period.

[Buffalogic]

No “apologist”. Not even close.

sukie hit the nail on the head. (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/262391-Wholesale-changes-needed?p=4999360&viewfull=1#post4999360)..."Team was 13-3 and only got blown out today… wholesale? Naw. I did say similar things post game as a knee jerk reaction but I thought about this”.

Every off-season brings changes to a team. That is the nature of NFL football today, with the cap and free agency. I suspect that the Bills will have similar quantity of changes to last year.

Some of the 2021 players that were not with the team at start of 2022....many of these were starters or had significant percentage of snaps....


Emmanuel Sanders
Cole Beasley
Matt Breida
Jon Feliciano
Daryl Williams
Cody Ford
Star Lotulelei
Harrison Phillips
Vernon Butler
Jerry Huges
Mario Addison
Andre Smith
AJ Klein
Levi Wallace


I’m missing some, these come quickly to mind. That represents 26% of the 53 man roster...gone.

That is a fairly regular off-season turnover for a NFL team today.

No where NEAR “wholesale changes”. You don’t do that for a team like the Bills, with their fourth season with 10+ wins, fourth consecutive second int he playoffs (2nd longest streak behind only KC....only seven teams in the NFL are enjoying two+ consecutive playoffs seasons....you do not blow up teams in this situation).

Yes, changes have to be made. But smart ones. Measured ones. Knee jerk changes are for losers.
Nobody should care about being regular season heroes. The team is not built to win when it matters against physical teams. Wholesale changes are needed. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know the game. Homerism is for losers.

[notacon]

Nobody should care about being regular season heroes. The team is not built to win when it matters against physical teams. Wholesale changes are needed. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't know the game. Homerism is for losers.
Oh, boy....the "Anyone who thinks otherwise (to whatever harebrained idea one conjures up) just doesn't know the game” bull****.


Jesus. The ones that say that usually know a LOT less about football than they think they do.

[Buffalogic]

Oh, boy....the "Anyone who thinks otherwise (to whatever harebrained idea one conjures up) just doesn't know the game” bull****.


Jesus. The ones that say that usually know a LOT less about football than they think they do.

You probably buy the division champs merch.

[notacon]

You probably buy the division champs merch.

:rofl: As usual when someone tries to assume what I do, they are woefully wrong.

I never buy ANY NFL merchandise and never have.

I don’t understand why grown adults spend money on jerseys. Maybe to give their kid. But to wear it in public (outside attending a game???). Not unless one is child.

[cookie G]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/23/fmia-divisional-brock-purdy-49ers-bengals-eagles/

When incumbent Jonah Williams became the third starting offensive lineman to get ruled out of the lineup last week, the Bengals turned to a mostly disappointing second-year lineman, Jackson Carman, who’d be starting his first career game at left tackle. The old man of the line, center Ted Karras, told me post-game, “I told the guys this week, ‘The pressure’s off, guys. No one thinks we can do it. We have a chance to go be heroes.’ And we did.”
Then Karras thought for a second. “Well, gotta give a shoutout to the defense as well. Come on, holding Josh Allen to 10 points? At home? In the playoffs? In the sleet? With that crowd against us?”
Good points. But the Achilles of the Cincinnati team was supposed to be, left to right, Carman, Cordell Volson (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/67705/cordell-volson), Karras, Max Scharping (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/51666/max-scharping) and Hakeem Adeniji (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/58507/hakeem-adeniji). And so what happened? Burrow tightened up his game, throwing the ball at a breakneck average of 2.50 seconds from the time of snap in 39 pass drops; on one throw (I’ll explain), he hit Ja’Marr Chase in a startling time of 1.10 seconds after taking the snap—the fifth-fastest time for a third-down conversion this season, per Next Gen Stats.

2.5 seconds release time isn't "breakneck", its about average.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

And they weren't even getting close to him, forcing him to adjust his throw, forcing him out of the pocket, making him uncomfortable, etc.

With the supposed talent they had on their DL, its pretty inexcusable.

[Mace]

2.5 seconds release time isn't "breakneck", its about average.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

And they weren't even getting close to him, forcing him to adjust his throw, forcing him out of the pocket, making him uncomfortable, etc.

With the supposed talent they had on their DL, its pretty inexcusable.

Bills didn't pay any attention to how Baltimore gave him trouble disguising coverages, stunts, disrupting reads. We mostly used zone, and of course the Frazier soft zone. Burrow was 16/20 for 173 yards and 2 td's against zone, and 2-7 for 14 yards against man. There's just no defensive thought there, nothing dynamic, it's just line 'em up and let 'em play and hope the players can do something with it.

[Mace]

I don't think 'wholesale changes' need to be made, but Beane and McDermott need to have a Come-to-Jesus meeting with Frazier and Josh.

This team is done going anywhere if they stick with Frazier's mirage of a defense and Allen keeps playing like he's still in Wyoming.

McDermott needs someone to give him a come to Jesus moment too, imo. As the hc he's the one with the power to motivate them, and direct his coordinators in their approach. Bet he claps at the coach and gameplan meetings too to jolly the troops.

[YardRat]

McDermott needs someone to give him a come to Jesus moment too, imo. As the hc he's the one with the power to motivate them, and direct his coordinators in their approach. Bet he claps at the coach and gameplan meetings too to jolly the troops.

Hopefully he and Beane will have a legitimate discussion, but in all honesty I'm not sure Beane sees the need for changes either unless he had an epiphany yesterday.

This team loses when the defense fails and Josh plays stupid, after three straight seasons one would like to think it's obvious to everybody, especially those that get paid to do this for a living. Especially after watching a third string QB almost knock us out, and a second string offensive line completely dominate our first round defense.

[Mace]

Hopefully he and Beane will have a legitimate discussion, but in all honesty I'm not sure Beane sees the need for changes either unless he had an epiphany yesterday.

This team loses when the defense fails and Josh plays stupid, after three straight seasons one would like to think it's obvious to everybody, especially those that get paid to do this for a living. Especially after watching a third string QB almost knock us out, and a second string offensive line completely dominate our first round defense.

Besides the failure at nuts and bolts football though, one thing Beane had to notice, and for that matter, Pegula had to notice, was that they came out flat, uninspired, and unprepared for a divisional home playoff game with Hamlin in attendance. In his postgame, Milano even said they had no energy, no juice. So they had no fire to win this game, and how can that be with a veteran, playoff seasoned roster in the 6th year of the program ? McDermott's approach is starting to get tuned out.

[Woodman]

2.5 seconds release time isn't "breakneck", its about average.

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

And they weren't even getting close to him, forcing him to adjust his throw, forcing him out of the pocket, making him uncomfortable, etc.

With the supposed talent they had on their DL, its pretty inexcusable.


How about 1.1 is that fast?

He hit Ja’Marr Chase in a startling time of 1.10 seconds after taking the snap—the fifth-fastest time for a third-down conversion this season, per Next Gen Stats.

[cookie G]

Bills didn't pay any attention to how Baltimore gave him trouble disguising coverages, stunts, disrupting reads. We mostly used zone, and of course the Frazier soft zone. Burrow was 16/20 for 173 yards and 2 td's against zone, and 2-7 for 14 yards against man. There's just no defensive thought there, nothing dynamic, it's just line 'em up and let 'em play and hope the players can do something with it.

They could have blitzed or stunted more. As far as coverage goes, ...it don't matter when the QB is standing back comfortably on every play.

you can argue that they missed Daquan Jones in the run game, they did, but damn...

I spent the entire game waiting for one of the 1st or 2nd round picks on the DL to actually get through the line, or at least shed a block and make a tackle.

The 10 man rotation of 1st and 2nd round picks isn't working. Wayyy to many assets tied up in an underperforming unit.

In the past, there were some cool Dline names...

The Purple People Eaters;
The Doomsday Defense;
The NY Sack Exchange;
The Steel Curtain.

The Underachievers doesn't quite have the same ring.

Jones comes back, at age 32 or 33. Von comes off an injury at 34 or 35. Rousseau is at least on a rookie contract.

We are...ugh...going to pay Ed Freaking Oliver $10 million next year. Damn I'd like to have the call back of extending him another year.

If nothing else, the rest of these guys are replaceable.

I really doubt Leslie makes it through offseason evals, but that's me. And it doesn't solve the problem of how bad they have been at evaluating D line talent.

- - - Updated - - -


How about 1.1 is that fast?

He hit Ja’Marr Chase in a startling time of 1.10 seconds after taking the snap—the fifth-fastest time for a third-down conversion this season, per Next Gen Stats.

one play

[Buffalogic]

Nice formation here Frazier (https://ibb.co/Xkjy9RD), you really schemed them up. And why aren't we in the all white camo for the snow?