The Fire McDermott Thread

[Typ0]

The time is now for Pegula to step in and fire our current staff -- the time now is much better than two or three years down the road. Very difficult decision but this is where we are headed if action is not taken.

Listen to what they have to say. I have heard what they have to say. The same old "we need to learn from this".

Well, you keep saying you need to learn from things then keep doing the same things over and over.

If we see a firing of a coach in the next few days ... it should be taken for the escapist bunk that it is -- McDermott finding fall guys when the responsibility is his.

We are going to continue spinning our wheels under McDermott. I began to speak these words two years ago and they continue to get louder and gain evidentiary steam.

The Growth Mindset, for one thing, is crippling on a small scale. It is a great mentality in the big picture but trying to win play to play and week to week the growth mindset is going to set you back. The growth mindset is something for the off-season. Why is that so important? Because people need good direction and don't have time to sit around and think about their meta skills when they are trying to catch or defend a pass!

McDermott is a great leader. It shows. I love a lot of things McDermott does. But there are other areas where he ends the discussion if he should remain like when he allows Josh Allen to choose his own OC. This is a horrible thing to do! Josh Allen is a kid. He needs structure and boundaries to work within. He's got none. What we have is a balls to the wall Josh Allen philosophy -- which ends up being an evasive pile of excuses why the team underachieves because Josh Allen doesn't have what he needs and the team is not prepared and not on the same page.

Allen could be destined to be a great Quarterback in this league but he is not headed there under McDermott. Allen is being destroyed by McDermott's hands off empowerment attitude. The right teaching has not been there and the right structure is not there. The scheming and playcalling on offense and defense continues to be attrocious. It is so bad we can't execute a simple throw and catch in favor of a big failed shot downfield or some other misuse of opportunity.

I am sorry folks, it is over for McDermott. He's not going to learn and change enough to understand his defensive philosophy is old and doesn't work. We aren't aggressive. We aren't disriptive. We don't tackle. The scheming is poor. The rotation sucks. The defense just isn't adaptable to different players and skill sets that must evolve throughout a season. Don't really care how top 5ish Fraziers stats are we all see it on a weekly basis. Even weak offenses march down field on us. The defense we currently run will NEVER beat a good offense playing well but they can do a great job waiting around for others to play poor and rack up some stats. Do you want to win the big game or increase the coaches salary?

Yesterday, Frazier sent his defensive backs 10 yards deep on 3rd and 8. How do you overcome that type of coaching? They didn't learn **** from 13 seconds proven with that call then came out to the media and gave you some "we need to learn from this" bull****.

And the offense. Allen does not get to pick and choose what he does and doesn't want. I will tell you I have a very strong marketing and research backround and everything I do I ask people to hear what's going on when they are effected by what is done. That is the way to do it. But McDermott NEVER truly has his hands on the pulse of this team nor does he EVER see tough ways he needs to intervene to protect people from themselves. What McDermott's philosophy and practice does is empower people to allow their weaknesses to grow into things that can't be overcome.

McDermott needs to be fired this week unfortunately. Someone with more discipline needs to be hired. Someone who actually intervenes and coaches as opposed to McDermott, who waits until things are happening and see's what people come up with in order to address challenges. He's not going to change into someone who can teach discipline. I'm not saying he's not disciplined -- I'm saying he can't develop a culture of discipline because he doesn't properly model and teach discipline.

The team was an emotional wreck yesterday. They didn't even show up to play. Josh Allen jumps into defenders then yells and screams in their faces. He pushes people around in frustration and yells and screams like an angry toddler on the field. Diggs was having a meltdown for 3/4 of the game. Then they all talk about 'humility' because McDermott preaches humility but doesn't actually live or allow humility to be a part of the process. Instead, McDermott's philosophy is to wallow in your egoism because you are a 'competitor'.

The message is inconsistent and the culture gets to be a mess because McDermott doesn't manage it with anything but a very passive that-a-boy attitude. McDermott has been a great guy to help build a better culture but it's gotten to a point where he is destroying our capability to level up -- it is time to part ways and reach for the mountaintop. Unless Beane makes this decision you are going to need to send Beane packing as well. So be it. Better than doing the same thing again next year and continually underachieving under McDermott. McDermott is a guy who is going to get more out of a less team and less out of a more team. He needs to go find other doors to keep knocking on because we want someone here who plans on walking through the door not just knocking on it.

[sahlensguy]

He needs to be, but won't.

[Typ0]

He needs to be, but won't.

You are right and it is unfortunate. He's a very good coach and an excellent leader! We need something different to get over the hump though.

[notacon]

You mean the “Dumb Fire McDermott Thread”.

No. There is no way the Bills fire McDermott and there is no reasonable reason to do so. How ****ing stupid.

[Typ0]

You mean the “Dumb Fire McDermott Thread”.

No. There is no way the Bills fire McDermott and there is no reasonable reason to do so. How ****ing stupid.

Check back in 3 years you obviously need more evidence. I don't. They don't learn. They don't evolve. Same results. Same melt-downs. Same lack of managerial oversight. Same poor planning. Same bogus lipspeak after the results. You might as well have Donald Trump or Joe Biden as our football coach.

Josh Allen has been mismanaged here since he was drafted.

The same thing will continue until he's destroyed ... and you will call it 'bad luck'. 20 years of waiting to have a property like Allen on the team and now this....

[Typ0]

Miami will win the AFC E next season. Hell, if Brady goes to the JETS we will end up finishing 3rd as both of those organizations are better coached than ours.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

You don’t need to fire him. You just need to fire the offensive coordinator

[justasportsfan]

He'llt be our Marvin Lewis

[Typ0]

You don’t need to fire him. You just need to fire the offensive coordinator

That is what he is going to say...and he's already proven devoid of understanding about human denial and who our worst enemies are.

[CommissarSpartacus]

McDermott is now, and always has been a chicken.

When the pressure is on you can always count on him to do whatever will garner him the least criticism if it fails.

[Novacane]

I'm not onboard with a total rebuild and that's what firing McD would be. I'd like to see both coordinators changed. If I can only have 1 it would be Frazier. I'll give Dorsey 1 more year.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

I'm not onboard with a total rebuild and that's what firing McD would be. I'd like to see both coordinators changed. If I can only have 1 it would be Frazier. I'll give Dorsey 1 more year.

Perfect fit as DC is Brian Flores. He was great on Defense. Miamigot worse after he left. He also hates Miami with passion

[notacon]

Check back in 3 years you obviously need more evidence. I don't. They don't learn. They don't evolve. Same results. Same melt-downs. Same lack of managerial oversight. Same poor planning. Same bogus lipspeak after the results. You might as well have Donald Trump or Joe Biden as our football coach.

Josh Allen has been mismanaged here since he was drafted.

The same thing will continue until he's destroyed ... and you will call it 'bad luck'. 20 years of waiting to have a property like Allen on the team and now this....
Nonsense.

[Mace]

Perfect fit as DC is Brian Flores. He was great on Defense. Miamigot worse after he left. He also hates Miami with passion

Different style of defense than McDermott's chosen slop.

No one will get fired, and this is what we're stuck with.

[YardRat]

Check back in 3 years you obviously need more evidence. I don't. They don't learn. They don't evolve. Same results. Same melt-downs. Same lack of managerial oversight. Same poor planning. Same bogus lipspeak after the results. You might as well have Donald Trump or Joe Biden as our football coach.

Josh Allen has been mismanaged here since he was drafted.

The same thing will continue until he's destroyed ... and you will call it 'bad luck'. 20 years of waiting to have a property like Allen on the team and now this....

Please. All but a half dozen teams would kill to have a QB "mismanaged" like Josh Allen has been.

The only person mismanaging Josh is Josh himself.

[YardRat]

He'llt be our Marvin Lewis

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game...ever...so McD already isn't 'our version'.

[YardRat]

You don’t need to fire him. You just need to fire the offensive coordinator

Dorsey isn't the problem.

Frasier and Josh are.

[YardRat]

Perfect fit as DC is Brian Flores. He was great on Defense. Miamigot worse after he left. He also hates Miami with passion

He might be a good DC, not sure if he fits the culture. He's too much in the Wrecks Wryan/Greg Williams camp.

[mightysimi]

McDermott as been to the playoffs 5 out 6 years after the team missed for almost 2 decades. We have won a playoff game in 3 consecutive years which is a feat that 21 other franchises can't say they've done. Highly ranked on O, Highly ranked on D and ST.

All this to say I don't think he is going anywhere.

[Mace]

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game...ever...so McD already isn't 'our version'.

The general idea is there though. The annual crumpling choke.

[sahlensguy]

Dorsey isn't the problem..

What on earth has Dorsey EVER done to warrant this pass?

[Borosai]

After 13 seconds, Frazier should've been fired, and McD should've been given another year to prove he can even lead the team to a SB. And here we are, with another playoff no show. Not just a loss... they weren't even slightly competitive, at home. Another season with more empty words and no improvement.

You can thank McD all you want for turning this team into a playoff team. That's great, but if that's his ceiling, what's the point? Fabulous playoff losses every year. If he stays, both coordinators need to be replaced by the best to make up for what he lacks.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

Dorsey isn't the problem.

Frasier and Josh are.

You’ve lost it. How is Josh the problem. He’s our entire offense. He’s running for his life. Replace Josh Allen with a guy like Carr or even Aaron Rodgers we aren’t winning East last year.

[Typ0]

Please. All but a half dozen teams would kill to have a QB "mismanaged" like Josh Allen has been.

The only person mismanaging Josh is Josh himself.

No. Josh is being allowed to mismanage himself because he doesn't have the proper guidelines and guidance. He's being placed into a situation that is not favorable then expected to succeed because he's Josh Allen and he can overcome it. Unfortunately, Josh Allen can't overcome himself and the tools and structure are not there to protect him.

According to McDermott every player fails to execute well here and there and it always ends up equaling our losses. At what point is McDermott responsible to put them into a better situation they can actually execute consistently in?

[Typ0]

You’ve lost it. How is Josh the problem. He’s our entire offense. He’s running for his life. Replace Josh Allen with a guy like Carr or even Aaron Rodgers we aren’t winning East last year.

Josh is the problem because everything is designed to let Josh Allen be Josh Allen. We should be seeing Josh Allen make plays AND a team that can execute basic football not struggle to run and catch.

[Novacane]

Marvin Lewis never won a playoff game...ever...so McD already isn't 'our version'.

He'll be our Marty Schottonheimer

[Mace]

He'll be our Marty Schottonheimer

Remember here when people were actually clamoring for Martyball ? Finally happened.

[Kenny]

I dont think the players on offense are terrible. Are our WRs overrated? absolutely. And honestly, i dont know what any one sees with Cook. He looks like a very smooth runner out there, but I dont see quickness, I dont see speed, and I certainly dont see any power. That said, as a unit we're above average, and despite Josh disappearing yesterday, he has shown many many times that he can put this team on his shoulders and win. Need to give Dorsey another shot given how the first 6 weeks of this season.

The defense though... I honestly dont know what to do.

Poyer's done.
Hyde.. he's getting up there in age and who knows what he'll look like after this injury.
I dont mind Edmunds, even though he didnt play yesterday (yes... sarcasm). Someone is going to overpay for him, so he's gone
White... and the rest of the corners? I think they were spoiled by Poyer and Hyde, who really made this defense work.
Rousseau, he's looked average vs the pass to above average vs. the run. Good player but not someone who's going to take over a game (or at least he hasnt shown it yet).
Epenesa, Basham, etc... who cares.
Settle? I was wrong. I really thought based on the reports of him in Washington, that he was going to be a franchise guy for us. Did he play yesterday?
Phillips? too injury prone
Von Miller... he'll be 34.5 years old when the season starts.


Outside of Oliver and Milano (and I guess Daquon Jones), and seeing what we have with Elam and Benford, it almost feels like a rebuild.

[kgun12]

Please. All but a half dozen teams would kill to have a QB "mismanaged" like Josh Allen has been.

The only person mismanaging Josh is Josh himself.

Wrong, his decline this year is tied to Dabol leaving Josh improved year year with him. It’s no coincidence he declined this year with Dorsey, there is no offensive discipline.

[Joe Fo Sho]

This place is in absolute meltdown mode... Are y'all new to being Bills fans or something?

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

The time is now for Pegula to step in and fire our current staff -- the time now is much better than two or three years down the road. Very difficult decision but this is where we are headed if action is not taken.

Listen to what they have to say. I have heard what they have to say. The same old "we need to learn from this".

Well, you keep saying you need to learn from things then keep doing the same things over and over.

If we see a firing of a coach in the next few days ... it should be taken for the escapist bunk that it is -- McDermott finding fall guys when the responsibility is his.

We are going to continue spinning our wheels under McDermott. I began to speak these words two years ago and they continue to get louder and gain evidentiary steam.

The Growth Mindset, for one thing, is crippling on a small scale. It is a great mentality in the big picture but trying to win play to play and week to week the growth mindset is going to set you back. The growth mindset is something for the off-season. Why is that so important? Because people need good direction and don't have time to sit around and think about their meta skills when they are trying to catch or defend a pass!

McDermott is a great leader. It shows. I love a lot of things McDermott does. But there are other areas where he ends the discussion if he should remain like when he allows Josh Allen to choose his own OC. This is a horrible thing to do! Josh Allen is a kid. He needs structure and boundaries to work within. He's got none. What we have is a balls to the wall Josh Allen philosophy -- which ends up being an evasive pile of excuses why the team underachieves because Josh Allen doesn't have what he needs and the team is not prepared and not on the same page.

Allen could be destined to be a great Quarterback in this league but he is not headed there under McDermott. Allen is being destroyed by McDermott's hands off empowerment attitude. The right teaching has not been there and the right structure is not there. The scheming and playcalling on offense and defense continues to be attrocious. It is so bad we can't execute a simple throw and catch in favor of a big failed shot downfield or some other misuse of opportunity.

I am sorry folks, it is over for McDermott. He's not going to learn and change enough to understand his defensive philosophy is old and doesn't work. We aren't aggressive. We aren't disriptive. We don't tackle. The scheming is poor. The rotation sucks. The defense just isn't adaptable to different players and skill sets that must evolve throughout a season. Don't really care how top 5ish Fraziers stats are we all see it on a weekly basis. Even weak offenses march down field on us. The defense we currently run will NEVER beat a good offense playing well but they can do a great job waiting around for others to play poor and rack up some stats. Do you want to win the big game or increase the coaches salary?

Yesterday, Frazier sent his defensive backs 10 yards deep on 3rd and 8. How do you overcome that type of coaching? They didn't learn **** from 13 seconds proven with that call then came out to the media and gave you some "we need to learn from this" bull****.

And the offense. Allen does not get to pick and choose what he does and doesn't want. I will tell you I have a very strong marketing and research backround and everything I do I ask people to hear what's going on when they are effected by what is done. That is the way to do it. But McDermott NEVER truly has his hands on the pulse of this team nor does he EVER see tough ways he needs to intervene to protect people from themselves. What McDermott's philosophy and practice does is empower people to allow their weaknesses to grow into things that can't be overcome.

McDermott needs to be fired this week unfortunately. Someone with more discipline needs to be hired. Someone who actually intervenes and coaches as opposed to McDermott, who waits until things are happening and see's what people come up with in order to address challenges. He's not going to change into someone who can teach discipline. I'm not saying he's not disciplined -- I'm saying he can't develop a culture of discipline because he doesn't properly model and teach discipline.

The team was an emotional wreck yesterday. They didn't even show up to play. Josh Allen jumps into defenders then yells and screams in their faces. He pushes people around in frustration and yells and screams like an angry toddler on the field. Diggs was having a meltdown for 3/4 of the game. Then they all talk about 'humility' because McDermott preaches humility but doesn't actually live or allow humility to be a part of the process. Instead, McDermott's philosophy is to wallow in your egoism because you are a 'competitor'.

The message is inconsistent and the culture gets to be a mess because McDermott doesn't manage it with anything but a very passive that-a-boy attitude. McDermott has been a great guy to help build a better culture but it's gotten to a point where he is destroying our capability to level up -- it is time to part ways and reach for the mountaintop. Unless Beane makes this decision you are going to need to send Beane packing as well. So be it. Better than doing the same thing again next year and continually underachieving under McDermott. McDermott is a guy who is going to get more out of a less team and less out of a more team. He needs to go find other doors to keep knocking on because we want someone here who plans on walking through the door not just knocking on it.

I’m in the extreme minority

but I’m fully on board with this

[Typ0]

No one is melting down. There are plenty of reasons to praise McDermott and some we should be critical of. The mentality of the team falls on McDermott's shoulders and no one else's. I'm not just pissed about yesterdays performance to top off the season from hell. We are signing up for the same path next season with McDermott. He intends on doing the same thing and knocking on the door again he told you right in the press conference today. Stay the course be consistent. Trust the process. Be humble. We need to learn from this....

Then step out there and lack for good planning, strategy and subscribe to the same outcomes. We've got poor game management and doublespeak to look forward to. The defense is in a state it needs a rebuild...but they are going to rebuild it under the same philosophy. There is the problem we need to avoid.

[swiper]

Post Removed for TOS Violation.

~DB

[swiper]

I’m in the extreme minority


You're not really.

McDermott doesn't make offense or defense calls. He messes up clock management, red flags. He does nothing worth keeping. Name something he does that makes him valuable. There isn't anything.

[swiper]

Outside of Oliver and Milano (and I guess Daquon Jones), and seeing what we have with Elam and Benford, it almost feels like a rebuild.

Oliver was beyond horrible yesterday. One of the most overrated Bills on this team. Him and Edmunds are why the Bengals gained 10 yards every time they ran up the gut. And they did that all day long.

[YardRat]

What on earth has Dorsey EVER done to warrant this pass?

It's his first year as OC and the offensive production wasn't much different. The dumb throws and turnovers were, though.

[YardRat]

You’ve lost it. How is Josh the problem. He’s our entire offense. He’s running for his life. Replace Josh Allen with a guy like Carr or even Aaron Rodgers we aren’t winning East last year.
I din't say he was 'the' problem, but he is 'a' problem.

Replace Josh with Burrow yesterday and we probably are playing next week.

Burrow and Mahomes know how to win in the post-season against their alleged peers...Josh hasn't learned that yet.

[YardRat]

No. Josh is being allowed to mismanage himself because he doesn't have the proper guidelines and guidance. He's being placed into a situation that is not favorable then expected to succeed because he's Josh Allen and he can overcome it. Unfortunately, Josh Allen can't overcome himself and the tools and structure are not there to protect him.

According to McDermott every player fails to execute well here and there and it always ends up equaling our losses. At what point is McDermott responsible to put them into a better situation they can actually execute consistently in?

That's horse-****.

He's a fifth-year veteran that has seen just about everything he's going to see.

No coordinator is going to push a button and stop Josh from chucking the ball downfield to a covered receiver instead of hitting one of the other three that are wide open over the middle or in the flats. That's all Josh.

[YardRat]

Wrong, his decline this year is tied to Dabol leaving Josh improved year year with him. It’s no coincidence he declined this year with Dorsey, there is no offensive discipline.
He's a fifth year vet with a big contract...he should have developed that discipline by now. Burrow and Mahomes have. If Josh hasn't, that's on him.

[Novacane]

I din't say he was 'the' problem, but he is 'a' problem.

Replace Josh with Burrow yesterday and we probably are playing next week.

Burrow and Mahomes know how to win in the post-season against their alleged peers...Josh hasn't learned that yet.



That is ridiculous and I'm not trying to defend his play. Burrow had all day to throw. Josh had someone in his face all day. Swap QB's and the results the same.

[Mace]

You're not really.

McDermott doesn't make offense or defense calls. He messes up clock management, red flags. He does nothing worth keeping. Name something he does that makes him valuable. There isn't anything.

Steady, unspectacular hand on the helm that makes people feel good with his demeanor and attitude. Not saying it makes him good, it makes him less bad than alternatives. He's successful atm because of the talent level, he's a great person, and we went the much touted 13-3 regular season. It's a timid organization with a timid head coach, but the thought will be that it's working out better than its' falling on its' face because next year might work out better.

He also inserts himself into the defense and said so over 13 seconds.

Daboll kind of proved this year that he's more ballsy with less talent in NY, so someone was directing him here.

They're going to run this into the ground, stale.

[Typ0]

He's a fifth year vet with a big contract...he should have developed that discipline by now. Burrow and Mahomes have. If Josh hasn't, that's on him.

How do you know it's not on McDermott?

[sahlensguy]

It's his first year as OC and the offensive production wasn't much different. The dumb throws and turnovers were, though.

There was, especially in the beginning of the year, continuity since Daboll and focus because of the new guy and a chip from the Chiefs loss. Once that all wore off, Dorsey brought absolutely nothing. The decline of the offense is as much on him as anybody.

[sahlensguy]

That is ridiculous and I'm not trying to defend his play. Burrow had all day to throw. Josh had someone in his face all day. Swap QB's and the results the same.

Wrong. Just wrong.

[notacon]

Post Removed ~DB

Hmmmmmmmm. I’m not a betting man, but I’d be willing bet you that McDermott does NOT get fired this offseason.

If he does, I’ll leave this site forever.

If he is still HC by the start of training camp, YOU leave this site forever.

Put your “money" where your mouth is or STFU!!!

[YardRat]

How do you know it's not on McDermott?

Because McDermott isn't the one making the pre- and post-snap reads, going through the progressions and deciding where to throw the ball.

[sahlensguy]

That's horse-****.

He's a fifth-year veteran that has seen just about everything he's going to see.

No coordinator is going to push a button and stop Josh from chucking the ball downfield to a covered receiver instead of hitting one of the other three that are wide open over the middle or in the flats. That's all Josh.

Mahomes has Andy Reid who gave him the softest landing g into the NFL possible. PM went to the perfect spot for his success.

Burrow was a highly successful high school recruit and had 4 years of college ball winning the MVP and the National title.

Both have solid foundations.

Josh's foundation, or lack thereof, is well documented. Wanted by no one except 1. Played in a cast-off conference in the least populated state in the lower 48. Raw talent coming into the NFL with questionable mechanics.

Daboll was his cheap man's Andy Reid, but at least it was something.

And now Josh has an OC who is still finding himself in this league and a defensive minded HC. It's no surprise that Josh is reverting to bad form. The foundation isn't there to be on his own and I saw this coming.

[sahlensguy]

Because McDermott isn't the one making the pre- and post-snap reads, going through the progressions and deciding where to throw the ball.

Josh lacks coaching. Even if you think he should know it all by now.

[Novacane]

Wrong. Just wrong.

Bull ****. We didn't lay a hand on Burrow. Josh was bleeding from being pummeled. I'm sure you'll say there were plays he had time. So what. I'm not defending him. He played like crap too. I'm just saying the statement that the Bills would of won with Burrow is asinine.

[sahlensguy]

Bull ****. We didn't lay a hand on Burrow. Josh was bleeding from being pummeled. I'm sure you'll say there were plays he had time. So what. I'm not defending him. He played like crap too. I'm just saying the statement that the Bills would of won with Burrow is asinine.

Sorry. I thought I replied to Yardrat. I agree with you!

[Novacane]

No one showed up for the Bills.

[sahlensguy]

No one showed up for the Bills.

No one. Including Allen and Burrow wouldn't have made a difference.

[swiper]

Hmmmmmmmm. I’m not a betting man, but I’d be willing bet you that McDermott does NOT get fired this offseason.

If he does, I’ll leave this site forever.

If he is still HC by the start of training camp, YOU leave this site forever.

Put your “money" where your mouth is or STFU!!!

I don't expect he'll get fired, but he should. You're reading comprehension is as poor as your football acumen.

[YardRat]

Mahomes has Andy Reid who gave him the softest landing g into the NFL possible. PM went to the perfect spot for his success.

Burrow was a highly successful high school recruit and had 4 years of college ball winning the MVP and the National title.

Both have solid foundations.

Josh's foundation, or lack thereof, is well documented. Wanted by no one except 1. Played in a cast-off conference in the least populated state in the lower 48. Raw talent coming into the NFL with questionable mechanics.

Daboll was his cheap man's Andy Reid, but at least it was something.

And now Josh has an OC who is still finding himself in this league and a defensive minded HC. It's no surprise that Josh is reverting to bad form. The foundation isn't there to be on his own and I saw this coming.

Josh's foundation was putting in the work to get where he wanted to be. Constantly improving because he was putting in the time and effort. That may not be a foundation that has a pedigree or a coddling coach but it's still the foundation that led to him walking off the field in the KC loss as the best player in the entire league. Instead of building on that, he regressed, and he doesn't need a babysitter to make him aware of that.

5 years of observations of 'we lost' or 'we didn't win like we should have' because of 'Dumb Josh', 'Bad Josh', and 'Hero Ball Josh' showing up and all of sudden it becomes "NOT JOSH'S FAULT, FIRE THE COACHES!!"

[YardRat]

Bull ****. We didn't lay a hand on Burrow. Josh was bleeding from being pummeled. I'm sure you'll say there were plays he had time. So what. I'm not defending him. He played like crap too. I'm just saying the statement that the Bills would of won with Burrow is asinine.

Burrow embarrassed our 'top ranked defense' behind a line of second team scrubs by getting the ball out quick and not making himself a sitting duck. That was a huge factor in the outcome.

[YardRat]

Look, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade Josh Allen for any QB in the league. It sucks to look at KC and Cincinnati and admit we're just not that good. It sucks to look at Mahomes and Burrow and say Josh just isn't that good. But that is the reality we watched on Sunday and live with today.

Josh regressed this season and he failed to take that next step that Mahomes and Burrow already have. He needs to correct that and come back next year and play at the level that puts us and him back into the conversation.

And that's on him. Not coaching. Not the rest of the roster. Him.

[DraftBoy]

Look, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade Josh Allen for any QB in the league. It sucks to look at KC and Cincinnati and admit we're just not that good. It sucks to look at Mahomes and Burrow and say Josh just isn't that good. But that is the reality we watched on Sunday and live with today.

Josh regressed this season and he failed to take that next step that Mahomes and Burrow already have. He needs to correct that and come back next year and play at the level that puts us and him back into the conversation.

And that's on him. Not coaching. Not the rest of the roster. Him.

I’d trade Josh for Mahomes and not even have to think about it. That’s not a shot against Josh, he’s just not at his level right now.

[Buffalogic]

I’d trade Josh for Mahomes and not even have to think about it. That’s not a shot against Josh, he’s just not at his level right now.Meanwhile chad henne goes 98 yards like it's nothing as soon as mahomes exits.

[imbondz]

That is ridiculous and I'm not trying to defend his play. Burrow had all day to throw. Josh had someone in his face all day. Swap QB's and the results the same.
1000% correct. Ravens were in Burrows face all game and they won on a lucky defensive play.

[Novacane]

Burrow embarrassed our 'top ranked defense' behind a line of second team scrubs by getting the ball out quick and not making himself a sitting duck. That was a huge factor in the outcome.



And the times the quick throws weren't open he still had all day to find his 2nd or 3rd option. I'm not defending Josh. His bombs away mentality is pissing me off too. Someway somehow that has to change. I just vehemently disagree that putting Burrow on the Bills and changing nothing else would have changed the outcome.

[DraftBoy]

Meanwhile chad henne goes 98 yards like it's nothing as soon as mahomes exits.

Cool.

[Typ0]

Look, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade Josh Allen for any QB in the league. It sucks to look at KC and Cincinnati and admit we're just not that good. It sucks to look at Mahomes and Burrow and say Josh just isn't that good. But that is the reality we watched on Sunday and live with today.

Josh regressed this season and he failed to take that next step that Mahomes and Burrow already have. He needs to correct that and come back next year and play at the level that puts us and him back into the conversation.

And that's on him. Not coaching. Not the rest of the roster. Him.

The coaches need to build an environment that fosters this growth...and they don't! So you go ahead and put the whole basket on top of Allen's shoulders--which is exactly the way the coaching staff has it designed--and you will just be signing up for more and more of the same and the continued regression and struggle of Josh Allen.

My point is Josh Allen is a big asset and we need to protect it and maximize it's effectiveness. McDermott does neither of those things. If we want to be successful we need new coaching. Next year we will likely be sailing into the season with McDermott at the helm, Frazier leading the defense and Dorsey leading the offense. Not really up for it. Sorry, this staff is nice but they are never going to have the best team in the league there are too many problems with the way they do things. Players on this team are always going to be coddled and people-pleased and unable to grasp the humility and sacrifice it's going to take to win a championship. The team is going to continue to lack direction pointing to an identity in favor of allowing it to organically emerge.

It is an NFL season there isn't time for infinite timeless bull****. You basically have about half a year to prepare for the playoffs. Boom! It is over. Rinse and repeat.

The learning isn't taking place. The evolution isn't taking place. We knew there were problems inside on the team last season. It's just gotten worse. The team has gotten worse. What this coaching staff has focused on and gotten better at in the McDermott tenure is covering up their dysfunction. They were dysfunctional this last Sunday. They didn't just take a beat down. What we saw was total domination of our offensive and defensive philosophies. That is McDermott and it is going to be a problem that remains until we are willing to do something that gets us over that hump.

[DraftBoy]

And the times the quick throws weren't open he still had all day to find his 2nd or 3rd option. I'm not defending Josh. His bombs away mentality is pissing me off too. Someway somehow that has to change. I just vehemently disagree that putting Burrow on the Bills and changing nothing else would have changed the outcome.

If we had Burrow then we have a shot to win that game. Burrow is a quick and decisive QB with extreme accuracy. Josh is a big play gun slinger whose going to force the ball and make plays happen that only he can. Against Cincy the shorter and decisive passing game would have gotten us in better positions.

I like Allen more overall, but we’ve seen games where we have to overcome his mentality to win. That’s why so many talk about hero ball in the gameday threads.

[Typ0]

And the times the quick throws weren't open he still had all day to find his 2nd or 3rd option. I'm not defending Josh. His bombs away mentality is pissing me off too. Someway somehow that has to change. I just vehemently disagree that putting Burrow on the Bills and changing nothing else would have changed the outcome.

This is how Allen has been coached. That is the piece that YardRat seems to be overlooking -- like Josh Allen is working in a box and what comes out is all Josh Allen. Not true. We saw a distinct change in Josh Allen during the season with this aggressive throw everything up downfield. That type of change comes when he is coached to change that way.

[Typ0]

If we had Burrow then we have a shot to win that game. Burrow is a quick and decisive QB with extreme accuracy. Josh is a big play gun slinger whose going to force the ball and make plays happen that only he can. Against Cincy the shorter and decisive passing game would have gotten us in better positions.

I like Allen more overall, but we’ve seen games where we have to overcome his mentality to win. That’s why so many talk about hero ball in the gameday threads.

Dude we don't employ a shorter decisive passing game because that is not how the coaches have the system designed. This is what I have been trying to say! The BS we see on the field from the offense is due to choices the coaches are making.

[Novacane]

Look, don't get me wrong, I wouldn't trade Josh Allen for any QB in the league. It sucks to look at KC and Cincinnati and admit we're just not that good. It sucks to look at Mahomes and Burrow and say Josh just isn't that good. But that is the reality we watched on Sunday and live with today.

Josh regressed this season and he failed to take that next step that Mahomes and Burrow already have. He needs to correct that and come back next year and play at the level that puts us and him back into the conversation.

And that's on him. Not coaching. Not the rest of the roster. Him.

Coaching has to play apart of it. Someone has to get it through his head that bombing it on 3rd and 1 is not smart QB. Someone has to get him to understand that the easy throws are just as important as the big plays because there's a lot more of them. Ultimately he has to put into practice what they're telling him but coaching absolutely plays apart.

I think they've been to easy on him. We've heard him joke many times about being told to slide more but that not being his game. He probably thinks the same thing about the long passes. Kinda gives me the feeling he's been told he just wants to do it his way. He's starting to hear criticism now that he's not in Mahomes and Burrows league. That's probably the best thing for him. We know how much that drove him when colleges told him he wasn't good enough.

[Novacane]

If we had Burrow then we have a shot to win that game. Burrow is a quick and decisive QB with extreme accuracy. Josh is a big play gun slinger whose going to force the ball and make plays happen that only he can. Against Cincy the shorter and decisive passing game would have gotten us in better positions.

I like Allen more overall, but we’ve seen games where we have to overcome his mentality to win. That’s why so many talk about hero ball in the gameday threads.



I just disagree. We were outcoached and dominated in both trenches. I don't see one guy changing a game from total domination to a win.

[Novacane]

This is how Allen has been coached. That is the piece that YardRat seems to be overlooking -- like Josh Allen is working in a box and what comes out is all Josh Allen. Not true. We saw a distinct change in Josh Allen during the season with this aggressive throw everything up downfield. That type of change comes when he is coached to change that way.


I don't agree with that. I think he defaults to that when things aren't going well.

[Forward_Lateral]

If we had Burrow then we have a shot to win that game. Burrow is a quick and decisive QB with extreme accuracy. Josh is a big play gun slinger whose going to force the ball and make plays happen that only he can. Against Cincy the shorter and decisive passing game would have gotten us in better positions.

I like Allen more overall, but we’ve seen games where we have to overcome his mentality to win. That’s why so many talk about hero ball in the gameday threads.
The playcalling didn't help. The game plan stunk. You'd think that after Miami, they'd have a plan for all out blitzes. They didn't. I didn't see one dump off to Singletary until the last 4 minutes when they were down by 17. I didn't see crossing routes. I don't think they ran one slant pattern.

I get what you are saying, and Josh will probably never be a short pass game manager type, but you have to help him out as the OC. You have to design plays to get the ball out of his hands quickly. Daboll was a master at that last year. He knew when Josh needed to be guided, and when to let him go. This year there was nobody to reign Josh in, and that is 100% on coaching.

[Forward_Lateral]

For everyone praising Burrow. It's easy to dissect any defense if you have all day. If you want to win in this league, you have to pressure the QB. The Bills are terrible at it, and it showed the last half of the seasonish. They had a few good games where they got to young, terrible QBs, but when they faced offenses that got the ball out quickly, they stunk. Why? Because they A.) can't or refuse to play press coverage, B.) Don't get pressure at all.

Winning is not rocket science. Pressure the QB with your front 4. Cover most of the field, making it HARD for the QB. On offense, you have to have answers for said pressure, and make it easier on your QB. You can't just expect him to escape pressure and make miracle 30 yard throws on the run every time. The Bills did none of the above, and it showed on Sunday.

[Typ0]

I don't agree with that. I think he defaults to that when things aren't going well.

Because he hasn't been coached differently!

[Typ0]

For everyone praising Burrow. It's easy to dissect any defense if you have all day. If you want to win in this league, you have to pressure the QB. The Bills are terrible at it, and it showed the last half of the seasonish. They had a few good games where they got to young, terrible QBs, but when they faced offenses that got the ball out quickly, they stunk. Why? Because they A.) can't or refuse to play press coverage, B.) Don't get pressure at all.

Winning is not rocket science. Pressure the QB with your front 4. Cover most of the field, making it HARD for the QB. On offense, you have to have answers for said pressure, and make it easier on your QB. You can't just expect him to escape pressure and make miracle 30 yard throws on the run every time. The Bills did none of the above, and it showed on Sunday.

The Bills are totally one-dimensional. Josh Allen throwing downfield Josh Allen running the ball. All Josh Allen.

We don't challenge other teams this way. We don't threaten the field. WE don't threaten anything -- only Josh Allen has a chance to do that.

We're going to be watching the same thing next season and hear the same "we need to learn from this" doublespeak.

[Typ0]

When Josh Allen is playing well they need to get him out there on the defense too!

[sahlensguy]

If we had Burrow then we have a shot to win that game. Burrow is a quick and decisive QB with extreme accuracy. Josh is a big play gun slinger whose going to force the ball and make plays happen that only he can. Against Cincy the shorter and decisive passing game would have gotten us in better positions.

I like Allen more overall, but we’ve seen games where we have to overcome his mentality to win. That’s why so many talk about hero ball in the gameday threads.

Josh would have slayed our D if he traded places with Burrow. All day to throw plus a running game. Some of you guys really hate Josh, sheesh.

[Typ0]

Josh would have slayed our D if he traded places with Burrow. All day to throw plus a running game. Some of you guys really hate Josh, sheesh.

Don't forget several viable receivers!!!!

[Forward_Lateral]

The Bills are totally one-dimensional. Josh Allen throwing downfield Josh Allen running the ball. All Josh Allen.

We don't challenge other teams this way. We don't threaten the field. WE don't threaten anything -- only Josh Allen has a chance to do that.

We're going to be watching the same thing next season and hear the same "we need to learn from this" doublespeak.
Agreed 100%

[CommissarSpartacus]

The problem with this team is THE HEAD COACH.

He's a chicken.

We've had to live with his gutlessness for 5 years.

I don't care that he looks like a marine, he's a ****ing coward and can always be counted on to pussy out when the pressure is on.

[sahlensguy]

Josh's foundation was putting in the work to get where he wanted to be. Constantly improving because he was putting in the time and effort. That may not be a foundation that has a pedigree or a coddling coach but it's still the foundation that led to him walking off the field in the KC loss as the best player in the entire league. Instead of building on that, he regressed, and he doesn't need a babysitter to make him aware of that.

5 years of observations of 'we lost' or 'we didn't win like we should have' because of 'Dumb Josh', 'Bad Josh', and 'Hero Ball Josh' showing up and all of sudden it becomes "NOT JOSH'S FAULT, FIRE THE COACHES!!"

Easy for you to say but I bet if Josh got a new pilot's license and the FAA told him "good job, you don't need us anymore", you wouldn't want to be a passenger on the plane he was flying, too often.

Do you have other examples of players in sports who have had the rise that Josh has had and then still excelled with the lack of coaching/players/scheme?

[Typ0]

The problem with this team is THE HEAD COACH.

He's a chicken.

We've had to live with his gutlessness for 5 years.

I don't care that he looks like a marine, he's a ****ing coward and can always be counted on to pussy out when the pressure is on.

When he punted that ball from the 40 Sunday I was done. He wouldn't have punted that ball during the regular season. And if they strategy is all Josh Allen then why the hell not be all Josh Allen?

McDermott is weak and a wishy washy people pleaser. There will always be some bully around to punch him in the face and ruin his day.

[sahlensguy]

When he punted that ball from the 40 Sunday I was done. He wouldn't have punted that ball during the regular season. And if they strategy is all Josh Allen then why the hell not be all Josh Allen?

McDermott is weak and a wishy washy people pleaser. There will always be some bully around to punch him in the face and ruin his day.

This.

[DraftBoy]

I just disagree. We were outcoached and dominated in both trenches. I don't see one guy changing a game from total domination to a win.

I don’t disagree that we were dominated in all facets and the trenches. Those factors alone would have made it very difficult for us to win regardless of the QB.

[DraftBoy]

Josh would have slayed our D if he traded places with Burrow. All day to throw plus a running game. Some of you guys really hate Josh, sheesh.

Yes, he would have. I didn’t say he wouldn’t.

[sahlensguy]

And if they strategy is all Josh Allen then why the hell not be all Josh Allen?


It's called hedging your bet. If you go all in on something and you're wrong, you are totally screwed.

And like Shiva says: McD is a chicken ****.

[sahlensguy]

Yes, he would have. I didn’t say he wouldn’t.

You said Burrow would have given the Bills a shot to win. This implies that Josh would not have slain the Bills D.

Josh would have put the game out of reach if he was on the Bengals. Your hatred for Josh is out of the closet.

[Typ0]

It's called hedging your bet. If you go all in on something and you're wrong, you are totally screwed.

And like Shiva says: McD is a chicken ****.

Right...then you have wishy washy leadership who says something but is too chicken to do what it takes to back it up.

It's because of McDermott we will always be knocking on the door and never walking through it ... and this regimes outlook is to keep knocking on the door until something different happens. Well, the team isn't properly prepared and nothing different is going to happen.

[sahlensguy]

Right...then you have wishy washy leadership who says something but is too chicken to do what it takes to back it up.

It's because of McDermott we will always be knocking on the door and never walking through it ... and this regimes outlook is to keep knocking on the door until something different happens. Well, the team isn't properly prepared and nothing different is going to happen.

I don't disagree with any of that.

McD is a hedge bet, and a hedge bettor.

[OpIv37]

Without reading through this whole thread:

First, after a 17 year playoff drought, McD got us to the playoffs 5 of 6 years, won the division 3 straight times, and won 4 playoff games. It's hard to justify firing him with that track record.

Second, between Levy and McD, we had 9 head coaches and they all sucked. Well, Phillips was decent but the rest sucked. Bills fans should know as well as anyone that "different" isn't necessarily "better."

That being said, I am starting to have doubts that McD can win it all. He's a bad gameday coach and doesn't seem to have the right relationship with his coordinators. They don't make him better and he doesn't reign them in when they are ****ing up. He definitely needs to fire Frazier and you could make a strong case for firing Dorsey as well.

[Typ0]

Without reading through this whole thread:

First, after a 17 year playoff drought, McD got us to the playoffs 5 of 6 years, won the division 3 straight times, and won 4 playoff games. It's hard to justify firing him with that track record.

Second, between Levy and McD, we had 9 head coaches and they all sucked. Well, Phillips was decent but the rest sucked. Bills fans should know as well as anyone that "different" isn't necessarily "better."

That being said, I am starting to have doubts that McD can win it all. He's a bad gameday coach and doesn't seem to have the right relationship with his coordinators. They don't make him better and he doesn't reign them in when they are ****ing up. He definitely needs to fire Frazier and you could make a strong case for firing Dorsey as well.

McDermott is a great leader. He can use those skills in a lot of places to lead teams. It's just that he values some things that take too much time to play out and aren't going to come together for him within and NFL season.

I would love to see McDermott take a step back and realize he's got the wrong coordinator mix to help him get to where he needs to be. I would like to see him step back and make some changes on gameday that help the team perform better. Tell me those things are going to happen? He's had 6 years. I could care less about playing in the playoffs every year that is not the statistic that shows me success. It is nice don't get me wrong the seasons are more fun when we at least look like we have a chance. However, in the end it seems to me the coaching on this team is something we have to strive to overcome not something that is helping us win. That should be the end of McDermott we don't have time for this ****.

[Historian]

Without reading through this whole thread:

First, after a 17 year playoff drought, McD got us to the playoffs 5 of 6 years, won the division 3 straight times, and won 4 playoff games. It's hard to justify firing him with that track record.

Second, between Levy and McD, we had 9 head coaches and they all sucked. Well, Phillips was decent but the rest sucked. Bills fans should know as well as anyone that "different" isn't necessarily "better."

That being said, I am starting to have doubts that McD can win it all. He's a bad gameday coach and doesn't seem to have the right relationship with his coordinators. They don't make him better and he doesn't reign them in when they are ****ing up. He definitely needs to fire Frazier and you could make a strong case for firing Dorsey as well.

It's his first gig....he's learning on the job too.

I like all the success....what I hate are the band wagoners it attracts. (That's nobody here, every poster here is a die-hard, as evidenced by the drought)
As far as I can remember, the only two times that changing HCs on a good team resulted in a Championship, were Gruden replacing Dungy, and Madden replacing Rauch, and the latter took seven years, and four AFCCG losses to achieve.

Just sayin.

[sahlensguy]

We probably have the greatest Bill ever on this team in Allen, who at one point seemed to be on track as one of the greatest qbs who ever played.

What does McD do? Pairs him with a psycho rookie OC.Yep! I can't believe it either. Way to ruin destiny.

This isn't a Brady/Belichick who's more important to the team debate. It's Allen by a Wyoming mile.

Love ya McD but you're screwing up greatness. Get the appropriate OC and personnel or step aside.

[Forward_Lateral]

Honestly, this offseason will determine McDermott's status as a great leader, IMO. If he does nothing, and just ho hum, we need to improve, and keeps Frasier and Dorsey, then he can go next year after the same results, IMO. I don't even really mind if Dorsey keeps his job, only because it was his first year and there plenty of good moments, but Frazier has to go. His defense has failed this team every single year when it matters. It's never going to change. He's not going to change philosophy overnight. Fire him, even if it brings a ton of outside media heat. Do your job and lead this team. Forget about hurting feelings.

[Typ0]

It's his first gig....he's learning on the job too.

I like all the success....what I hate are the band wagoners it attracts. (That's nobody here, every poster here is a die-hard, as evidenced by the drought)
As far as I can remember, the only two times that changing HCs on a good team resulted in a Championship, were Gruden replacing Dungy, and Madden replacing Rauch, and the latter took seven years, and four AFCCG losses to achieve.

Just sayin.

Is this a good team though? The defense is in rough shape. And we have spent so much draft capital trying to put together a McDermott defense that continues to be mediocre or poor against top opponents?

McDermott is a defensive coach. He's here for that reason. It's not going well. The ownership of the team changed you can't compare it to the drought which was caused by Ralph Wilson's age and risk aversion. Pegula is not holding back he believes the best thing for this franchise and his investment is to put together a championship squad.

It's not working out. We aren't competing for championships with other teams we are competing against ourselves because the coaching is lacking. Just watching our players flail around on gameday gets old. Then you consider the lousy decisions that get made or the poor game management. Ugh. We are going no where on this path.

[Historian]

One cannot discount the injuroes on that side of the ball.

Poyer was playing on a torn knee.

Losing Hyde was huge.

Losing Miller was an early playoff exit.

Sorry Keith, I think 14-4 is a good team....and I still have nightmares of watching Chan Gailey and Rex Ryan.

[sahlensguy]

One cannot discount the injuroes on that side of the ball.

Poyer was playing on a torn knee.

Losing Hyde was huge.

Losing Miller was an early playoff exit.

Sorry Keith, I think 14-4 is a good team....and I still have nightmares of watching Chan Gailey and Rex Ryan.

Not the D is was unhappy about, mostly anyway. The offense was out of sync since the Chiefs game.

[Typ0]

One cannot discount the injuroes on that side of the ball.

Poyer was playing on a torn knee.

Losing Hyde was huge.

Losing Miller was an early playoff exit.

Sorry Keith, I think 14-4 is a good team....and I still have nightmares of watching Chan Gailey and Rex Ryan.

14-4 is a good team! As long as 'good' is what you are looking for we are 'good' to go!

Problem is McDermott does not manage coaches or players ego's and they are run-away destructive to our cause. It is his style. Everyone else is in charge. Very noble.

[Typ0]

Not the D is was unhappy about, mostly anyway. The offense was out of sync since the Chiefs game.

It is always the same thing with McDermott. The run defense just plain sucks. The pass defense is good but when the opposing QB gets hot they get torched left and right because the line doesn't make the QB work harder.

[Typ0]

I hate it. The whole thing makes me sick. I believe in what McDermott believes in it just isn't going to work in such a highly choreographed large team sport. There are too many pieces to fit together. They need proper vision, guidance and structure. This is where the team has lacked since McDermott got here.

[notacon]

I don't expect he'll get fired, but he should. You're reading comprehension is as poor as your football acumen.

A distinction without a difference. So, you are saying that when the Bills DO NOT fire McDermott, they have “poor football acumen” and YOU (of all people) have more????

:rofl:


My post that you objected to (violating TOS in doing so) what quite clear. The main thrust of it is simple to understand and takes little reading comprehension to understand.


“You mean the “Dumb Fire McDermott Thread”.

No. There is no way the Bills fire McDermott....”



And my bet offer was ALL about THAT prediction.


Do you accept the bet or not???

[notacon]

One cannot discount the injuroes on that side of the ball.

Poyer was playing on a torn knee.

Losing Hyde was huge.

Losing Miller was an early playoff exit.

Sorry Keith, I think 14-4 is a good team....and I still have nightmares of watching Chan Gailey and Rex Ryan.

+1


A Super Bowl season is predicated on a lot of things going one team's way. Yes, the Bills got their asses handed to them by a better team ON THAT DAY!!!

The ball has been bouncing Cincy's way for weeks (actually, it goes back to last years AFCC game when Mahomes played, literally the worst half of football in his whole career.....his 2nd half passer rating in that game was a dismally bad 12.3 (https://theathletic.com/3511652/2022/01/31/patrick-mahomes-on-chiefs-loss-when-youre-up-21-3-you-cant-lose-it-and-i-put-that-on-myself/)).


In particular, this season, both the NE game (that they deserved to lose) and especially the Baltimore playoff game (where they ABSOLUTELY deserved to lose). They also lucked out with the Chase injury.....that IF was season ending (and it could easily have been so), Cincy is in a heap of trouble.


The Bills had the opposite and very bad luck with injuries all season long and (as you point out) Hyde and Miller’s injuries, and Poyer’s playing with nagging injuries most of the season were huge.. Same with Josh’s injured elbow that DID have negative effect on his play.


To discount all the things that did NOT go the Bills way in 2022 is silly. To call for the HC's head is counterproductive and just plain dumb. Pegula is NOT that dumb. If the Bills got regularly blown out his season, there might be an argument.

They did NOT. THIS was the first time this season. The only other losses were by 2, 3 & 3 points. Cincy got their asses handed to them in week 8, losing to the woeful Browns 32-13. A NINETEEN point loss.

They rallied and proceeded to go on a winning streak, one win more than the Bills going into this game.

The events of Jan 2, and the aftermath, were a huge motivating factor for the Bengals. They came into this game ROYALLY PISSED OFF and disrespected. The Bills were reeling with the aftermath of months of emotional and community hits and bad events.

The weather favored Cincy. It helped the injury wrecked O-line, and the backups being depended on just added to the “underdog” motivation. So did the 5 point underdog spread....so did selling tickets to a possible KC/Bills AFCC game in Atlanta....so did the game even being played in Buffalo.

It was perfect storm of massive motivation for Cincy, and an emotional meltdown for the beleaguered Bills.


Besides the fact that the Bengals played their BEST game of the season BY FAR. It was almost a perfect game for them. Only TWO penalties. The Bills played their worst game of the year.

The future of this team is the brightest it has been in its history. The Bills organization is solidly professional (unlike almost all of the Wilson years). We have a solid core of players. A young elite QB, that has not reached his ceiling yet and WILL improve.

Unfortunately, some “fans” want to blow it all up because their feeling are hurt. :rolleyes:

[OpIv37]

One cannot discount the injuroes on that side of the ball.

Poyer was playing on a torn knee.

Losing Hyde was huge.

Losing Miller was an early playoff exit.

Sorry Keith, I think 14-4 is a good team....and I still have nightmares of watching Chan Gailey and Rex Ryan.

In fairness, they did have 3 starters out on the OL. One would think that would at least partially negate our defensive injuries but it really didn't.

And FWIW, I think McDermott has two options: either fire Frazier now, or prove us wrong and win at least the AFC- if not the whole thing- next year with Frazier. If he keeps Frazier and we have another defensive collapse in the playoffs, I'm going to be in favor of firing both of them.

[Novacane]

In fairness, they did have 3 starters out on the OL. One would think that would at least partially negate our defensive injuries but it really didn't.

And FWIW, I think McDermott has two options: either fire Frazier now, or prove us wrong and win at least the AFC- if not the whole thing- next year with Frazier. If he keeps Frazier and we have another defensive collapse in the playoffs, I'm going to be in favor of firing both of them.

If he keeps Frazier the result will be the same. A new DC would prove McD has figured out the scheme he and Leslie love isn't working. Keeping Frazier proves he's learned nothing.

[Forward_Lateral]

In fairness, they did have 3 starters out on the OL. One would think that would at least partially negate our defensive injuries but it really didn't.

And FWIW, I think McDermott has two options: either fire Frazier now, or prove us wrong and win at least the AFC- if not the whole thing- next year with Frazier. If he keeps Frazier and we have another defensive collapse in the playoffs, I'm going to be in favor of firing both of them.
We agree on something. If he decides Frazier is his DC next year, then he should be held fully accountable if the results are the same (barring injuries, etc of course). Frazier's scheme is good for regular season wins. When the playoffs come, and they have to play a top tier QB, it's horrible. Look at the past losses. KC shredded them in the AFC title game, then the D choked away a win last year, and this year it got absolutely destroyed by Burrow.

[CommissarSpartacus]

We agree on something. If he decides Frazier is his DC next year, then he should be held fully accountable if the results are the same (barring injuries, etc of course). Frazier's scheme is good for regular season wins. When the playoffs come, and they have to play a top tier QB, it's horrible. Look at the past losses. KC shredded them in the AFC title game, then the D choked away a win last year, and this year it got absolutely destroyed by Burrow.

You guys DO get that the HC has the final word on ALL GAME PLANS?

Some seem to think the HC sits back and let's the coordinators decide the week's strategy.

[OpIv37]

You guys DO get that the HC has the final word on ALL GAME PLANS?

Some seem to think the HC sits back and let's the coordinators decide the week's strategy.

Like I said before, I'm starting to have my doubts that McD is capable of winning a SB, but before him, we had 9 head coaches in 20 years, and Wade Phillips was the only one who wasn't a complete disaster. Different doesn't necessarily mean better.

[Forward_Lateral]

You guys DO get that the HC has the final word on ALL GAME PLANS?

Some seem to think the HC sits back and let's the coordinators decide the week's strategy.
Sure, but McDermott doesn't call the plays. A game plan is one thing, but if it's not working, then you need to adjust. Frazier refused to do that Sunday. They couldn't stop anything. The Bengals could've run for 400 yards if they wanted to.

[Novacane]

You guys DO get that the HC has the final word on ALL GAME PLANS?

Some seem to think the HC sits back and let's the coordinators decide the week's strategy.

Yes. That's why we're saying if McD doesn't make a change he's learned nothing. He could keep Frazier and tell him to change the defense but soft drop 7 rush 4 is what Frazier knows. If he keeps Frazier I'm onboard with getting rid of him to if/when they get knocked out early again.

[Mace]

Sure, but McDermott doesn't call the plays. A game plan is one thing, but if it's not working, then you need to adjust. Frazier refused to do that Sunday. They couldn't stop anything. The Bengals could've run for 400 yards if they wanted to.

McDermott has inserted himself into it before, ala 13 seconds, and said so. For that matter, he can tell Frazier to adjust during the game at any point. McDermott is as timid as Frazier is.

[Typ0]

There was a point this season I was so excited to see some evidence McDermott has learned something....but it turned out Allen made the coaching call that won us the game.

[DraftBoy]

You said Burrow would have given the Bills a shot to win. This implies that Josh would not have slain the Bills D.

Josh would have put the game out of reach if he was on the Bengals. Your hatred for Josh is out of the closet.


No, it means that Burrow would have given us a shot to win. The question wasn’t if you flip flop the two QB’s can the Bills win. The question was about Burrow’s skillset v Allen given the defensive scheme we were facing.

[Mace]

It's his first gig....he's learning on the job too.

I like all the success....what I hate are the band wagoners it attracts. (That's nobody here, every poster here is a die-hard, as evidenced by the drought)
As far as I can remember, the only two times that changing HCs on a good team resulted in a Championship, were Gruden replacing Dungy, and Madden replacing Rauch, and the latter took seven years, and four AFCCG losses to achieve.

Just sayin.

I don't agree with learning on the job being an excuse any more. He's been an HC for 6 years, been to the playoffs 5 times. He's not growing or evolving, clenches up, gets timid.

Zac Taylor has way less experience, and is a first time HC as well, and brought his team in here ready to play football on the road in the playoffs.

[Typ0]

McDermott has inserted himself into it before, ala 13 seconds, and said so. For that matter, he can tell Frazier to adjust during the game at any point. McDermott is as timid as Frazier is.

yeah he hired a clone and a hothead because Allen wanted him. He's making the wrong hires and missing the personalities of all these people and the way they mix with him are mission critical to what they are trying to achieve.

- - - Updated - - -


I don't agree with learning on the job being an excuse any more. He's been an HC for 6 years, been to the playoffs 5 times. He's not growing or evolving, clenches up, gets timid.

Zac Taylor has way less experience, and is a first time HC as well, and brought his team in here ready to play football on the road in the playoffs.

That's what it is. The problem is he's not learning on the job then spouts off about learning from this and goes on to make the same mistakes.

[Typ0]

What is all this switch Allen for Burrow sub thread theme here? That is a totally pointless thing to argue about it is going no where.

[sahlensguy]

Like I said before, I'm starting to have my doubts that McD is capable of winning a SB, but before him, we had 9 head coaches in 20 years, and Wade Phillips was the only one who wasn't a complete disaster. Different doesn't necessarily mean better.

It's not often that a Josh Allen is on your team, if ever again. Sticking with McD, spending on defense and especially an unproven OC is dumb.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I'm not saying McD is a bad dude, he just makes bad decisions when the pressure is on, so he goes with conventional wisdom.

Like winning the coin toss and deferring to the second half kickoff.

That says you're worried about being behind after the first half.

So, how did that work out?

It was 14 - 0 before the Bills ran their fifth play.

"But, but conventional wisdom says you always defer when you win the coin toss! How can you criticize me for that!" - McD

Chicken.

[Typ0]

I'm not saying McD is a bad dude, he just makes bad decisions when the pressure is on, so he goes with conventional wisdom.

Like winning the coin toss and deferring to the second half kickoff.

That says you're worried about being behind after the first half.

So, how did that work out?

It was 14 - 0 before the Bills ran their fifth play.

"But, but conventional wisdom says you always defer when you win the coin toss! How can you criticize me for that!" - McD

Chicken.

Not sure about that. Deferring allows you to get further into the game before you have that possession. It gives you more knowledge about the game you are in when you have that possession. The first half is just a warm-up for the one that counts!

[sahlensguy]

I'm not saying McD is a bad dude, he just makes bad decisions when the pressure is on, so he goes with conventional wisdom.

Like winning the coin toss and deferring to the second half kickoff.

That says you're worried about being behind after the first half.

So, how did that work out?

It was 14 - 0 before the Bills ran their fifth play.

"But, but conventional wisdom says you always defer when you win the coin toss! How can you criticize me for that!" - McD

Chicken.

Not terrible to defer until you immediately remembered that Zac Taylor took the ball to start the Hamlin game and shoved it down our throats.

Second year in a row that you almost knew the AFC division playoff game was over at a coin flip.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Not sure about that. Deferring allows you to get further into the game before you have that possession. It gives you more knowledge about the game you are in when you have that possession. The first half is just a warm-up for the one that counts!

Conventional wisdom.

There is nothing better than being up 7 - 0 before the other team touches the ball.

Taking the opening kickoff says I'm gonna beat you. Period.

Deferring says "our plan might suck so we may need halftime to come up with a new strategy!"

Chicken.

Doesn't mean you don't have a Plan b, but if you never need to go to it that's best.

In this circumstance, taking the opening kick off says "We're gonna kick your ass!"

Deferring says "I'm gonna cover my ass!"

Chicken.

[Typ0]

Conventional wisdom.

There is nothing better than being up 7 - 0 before the other team touches the ball.

Taking the opening kickoff says I'm gonna beat you. Period.

Deferring says "our plan might suck so we may need halftime to come up with a new strategy!"

Chicken.

Doesn't mean you don't have a Plan b, but if you never need to go to it that's best.

In this circumstance, taking the opening kick off says "We're gonna kick your ass!"

Deferring says "I'm gonna cover my ass!"

Chicken.

That implies we make changes during halftime. We are more the trust the process and stay the course type. :D

[Mace]

Not terrible to defer until you immediately remembered that Zac Taylor took the ball to start the Hamlin game and shoved it down our throats.

Second year in a row that you almost knew the AFC division playoff game was over at a coin flip.

He's passive by nature and can't get past it, like his defense. They're still stuck. Frazier is his confidant, scheme needs more talent, it will surely work. Always mostly does. Has to be the talent. Can't be the coaching, next year boys !! We said that last year. And the year before.

I don't think they fire him, but I don't think anything changes. He wants to politely knock on the door instead of crashing through it. It's his nature.

[Typ0]

He's passive by nature and can't get past it, like his defense. They're still stuck. Frazier is his confidant, scheme needs more talent, it will surely work. Always mostly does. Has to be the talent. Can't be the coaching, next year boys !! We said that last year. And the year before.

I don't think they fire him, but I don't think anything changes. He wants to politely knock on the door instead of crashing through it. It's his nature.

Sound of door knocking...

Who's there?

The Buffalo Bills. Might you open the door?

**** off!

- - - Updated - - -

You need to knock that ****ing door down in the NFL dude!!!!!

[Mace]

That implies we make changes during halftime. We are more the trust the process and stay the course type. :D

Interesting read on "halftime adjustments".

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/peyton-manning-tony-dungy-nfl-halftime-adjustments/tta6iiqgaugyiauufuhrbxp0

[Typ0]

Interesting read on "halftime adjustments".

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl/news/peyton-manning-tony-dungy-nfl-halftime-adjustments/tta6iiqgaugyiauufuhrbxp0

I saw that! But it's from the players perspective not the coaches. It gives the coaches 5 minutes to decompress and compare notes and discuss what they have been thinking throughout the first half. It gives all the decision makers the ability to open up and gather some input from other skilled people. That is what my perception of half-time adjustments are because from that meeting you can emerge with a consistent plan of adjustment you can present to the team. How you present it...well they might not even know.

[Historian]

Marv used to say that there is little time at the half for strategy and speeches.

Most of the time the players are in the can taking a dump.

[YardRat]

Easy for you to say but I bet if Josh got a new pilot's license and the FAA told him "good job, you don't need us anymore", you wouldn't want to be a passenger on the plane he was flying, too often.

Do you have other examples of players in sports who have had the rise that Josh has had and then still excelled with the lack of coaching/players/scheme?

I'd be very comfortable knowing he has five years of experience flying under his belt.

Allen wasn't just handed the starting job this Sunday, so your analogy is very poor.

[YardRat]

One cannot discount the injuroes on that side of the ball.

Poyer was playing on a torn knee.

Losing Hyde was huge.

Losing Miller was an early playoff exit.

Sorry Keith, I think 14-4 is a good team....and I still have nightmares of watching Chan Gailey and Rex Ryan.

The injuries this year are irrelevant to the defense ****ting the bed three years in a row in the playoffs.

This past Sunday wasn't an anomaly due to extenuating circumstances...it was a continuation of a trend.

[YardRat]

Marv used to say that there is little time at the half for strategy and speeches.

Most of the time the players are in the can taking a dump.

Walt Corey ditched his fancy game plan and went back to a base 3-4 for the last two quarters of the comeback.

There is no way coaches aren't making adjustments at half time, even if the Mannings are sucking oranges on the ****ter.

[Mace]

Walt Corey ditched his fancy game plan and went back to a base 3-4 for the last two quarters of the comeback.

There is no way coaches aren't making adjustments at half time, even if the Mannings are sucking oranges on the ****ter.

Well, why do you think he didn't do that on the field ?

[YardRat]

Well, why do you think he didn't do that on the field ?

Suck an orange and ****? That would have been inappropriate.

[Typ0]

You don't have to meet with the team to implement half time adjustments. This isn't a movie! They can meet with players during the 3rd quarter if and when desired to implement whatever halftime adjustments they deem appropriate. Players individually or as a group. All of these professionals are busting our asses with the half time adjustment discussion. Half time adjustments are involved with how you implement the game plan in the second half. That process continues until the game is over. It is not a static thing half-time adjustments. Plus, now they have zoom so everyone can be taking a dump while they have a team meeting!

[starrymessenger]

What on earth has Dorsey EVER done to warrant this pass?
Dorsey is a child. Has no business being where he is. He is totally incompetent and a nut case as well.
I miss Daboll.

[starrymessenger]

Those who say Josh has been a problem are correct. Dorsey's job is to make sure Josh isn't a problem. He has no clue how to do that. Daboll was good at it. QB whisperer.

[Historian]

Regardless...one of the things Beane said in yesterday's presser was essentially:

We're not going to base our evaluations of any payer or staff member based on one game.

They will look at the season as a complete body of work.

I hope so, because Dorsey's playcalling was curious, if not outright odd the entire season, even more so in the games we won.

Because we won most of them.

[CommissarSpartacus]

We lost 3 games in the regular season by a grand total of EIGHT points.

I'd say Dorsey did pretty good job.

Remember, Dorsey and Frazier are offensive and defensive COORDINATORS.

They have a boss.

[sahlensguy]

We lost 3 games in the regular season by a grand total of EIGHT points.

I'd say Dorsey did pretty good job.

Remember, Dorsey and Frazier are offensive and defensive COORDINATORS.

They have a boss.

Did you watch the games?

Put no one away since early October. Lacked flow. Lacked identity. Allen regressed after the Chiefs game. Red zone efficiency was in the toilet. OC throwing a tantrum like a lunatic.

Games were close in spite of Dorsey.

[Forward_Lateral]

We lost 3 games in the regular season by a grand total of EIGHT points.

I'd say Dorsey did pretty good job.

Remember, Dorsey and Frazier are offensive and defensive COORDINATORS.

They have a boss.
You must be new to watching football, because you sure are acting like it.

The first people to get fired are the Co-ordinators. That's just how it works. They aren't going to just fire McDermott, who has the highest winning % in Bills history, without giving him multiple chances to rectify problems himself first.

[OpIv37]

I'm not saying McD is a bad dude, he just makes bad decisions when the pressure is on, so he goes with conventional wisdom.

Like winning the coin toss and deferring to the second half kickoff.

That says you're worried about being behind after the first half.

So, how did that work out?

It was 14 - 0 before the Bills ran their fifth play.

"But, but conventional wisdom says you always defer when you win the coin toss! How can you criticize me for that!" - McD

Chicken.

I don't entirely disagree with you- he does sometimes use the "conventional wisdom" approach when tough decisions need to be made.

But, the opening kickoff? It's 0-0 and not one second had ticked off the clock. And, we're at home. There's no reason NOT to go with the conventional wisdom in that scenario. At that point, there were no factors going against us to make him reconsider conventional wisdom.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Did you watch the games?

Put no one away since early October. Lacked flow. Lacked identity. Allen regressed after the Chiefs game. Red zone efficiency was in the toilet. OC throwing a tantrum like a lunatic.

Games were close in spite of Dorsey.

So, if Dorsey wasn't so ****ing incompetent, we would have gone undefeated?

[CommissarSpartacus]

I don't entirely disagree with you- he does sometimes use the "conventional wisdom" approach when tough decisions need to be made.

But, the opening kickoff? It's 0-0 and not one second had ticked off the clock. And, we're at home. There's no reason NOT to go with the conventional wisdom in that scenario. At that point, there were no factors going against us to make him reconsider conventional wisdom.

Sure, there's a reason.

You put your foot on their neck from the word go.

Taking the ball means you're confident.

Deferring means you're hesitant and worried.

[Forward_Lateral]

Of all the things that went wrong Sunday, I can't believe you are stuck on them deferring to the second half.

[sahlensguy]

So, if Dorsey wasn't so ****ing incompetent, we would have gone undefeated?

Just was asking if you watched the games because your defense of him comes from the stat sheet.

[sahlensguy]

Sure, there's a reason.

You put your foot on their neck from the word go.

Taking the ball means you're confident.

Deferring means you're hesitant and worried.

This can be true as evident when Zac Taylor took the ball to start the Hamlin game and shoved it down our throat, like the neighborhood bully.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Of all the things that went wrong Sunday, I can't believe you are stuck on them deferring to the second half.

It's just another example of McD bowing to conventional wisdom.

I bet you'd find that teams that start games 7 - 0 win more often than teams that start down 7 - 0.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Just was asking if you watched the games because your defense of him comes from the stat sheet.

???

[notacon]

Sure, but McDermott doesn't call the plays. A game plan is one thing, but if it's not working, then you need to adjust. Frazier refused to do that Sunday. They couldn't stop anything. The Bengals could've run for 400 yards if they wanted to.

You are missing a massive reality.....None of the coaches play on the field.

Brilliant coaches can conjure up all kinds of wonderful game plans....if the players do not execute, it’s all for naught.

The players DID execute well almost all of the time, but the few times they did not, it cost them everything.

Yesterday on GMFB (they have been brutally honest about the Bills loss) they briefly bounced around the idea on how much NOT getting a first round bye, hurt the Bills more than any other team.

With all they have gone through, a little breathing space of a fist round bye could have been a deciding factor. They mentioned that the team “was out of gas”.

KC backed into the #1 seed, and got amply rewarded, with a bye and getting to play Jax in the first round. An up-and-coming team for sure, but not ready for prime time just yet.

If the Monday night Hamlin death game was played (without the most likely cause of his malady, a once-in-a-billion hit in the chest at just the right place and in just the right millisecond between heart beats) who knows of the Bills would have won and secured the #1 seed.

But, more likely as the defining moments, were those handful of player ineptitude that prevented turning the threes loses into three wins.

Miami.....Josh Allen, at the Miami TWO yard line, had FOUR ****ING CHANCES to go ahead by 3, on 4th down, inexplicably skips the ball on the ground instead of into the hands of an open McKenzie for a TD.

Despite that, they STILL had a chance to win the game. But, McKenzie fails to get out of bounds and the clock runs out, preventing a winning FG try.

Jets game, Allen throws two TERRIBLE INT’s. Both HUGE.

First one on the Jets 13 yard line....red zone **** up. Second one was even worse. With the Bills up 14-10, Josh hands the ball to the Jets on their own 19 yard line. Easy TD even for crappy Zach Wilson. Jets ahead by 17-14. Bass misses a FG earlier preventing the Bills to extend their lead from 14-10 to 17-10. Setting up the go ahead score because of Allens’ monumental **** up

Despite all that, the Bills STILL had a chance to score either a tying FG or maybe even a winning TD. Even after Josh gets his arm mangled, he throws a ****ING DIME to Gabe Davis on the sideline. At the Jets TWENTY YARD LINE....and Davis let it slip right though his arms (just like he did several passes this year, including the Cincy loss).

Big time players make that big time play.

Minny, the Bills defense does their job, and stuffs the Vikings on the Bills one yard line. But, Josh cannot complete a kneel down snap, and instead fumbles away the win. Later, he throws ANOTHER crappy INT in OT to secure the LOSS.


None of these are on the coaches. They PLAYERS simply did not rise to the occasion. All it takes is a handful of these **** ups to ruin a season. And these moments did not involve the need for any kind of spectacular superman effort.


Make an easy pass into the flat. Get off the field to stop the clock. Catch a ball right on the numbers, directly into the “breadbasket”. Secure a kneel down snap. Don't throw the ball to the other team at the worst possible moments.

If any ONE of these moments went the other way, and the Bills turn ONE of those losses into a WIN, the Monday night Cincy game would not matter, they would have secured the #1 seed before that.

Almost assuring a AFC Championship game (after beating Jax at home), with Cincy and KC battling it out in the divisional round. IN BUFFALO!!!

McDermott (very deservingly) is a finalist for NFL Coach of the Year honors....and some confused Bills fans what to blow up the whole team by firing him?!?!?!

How totally idiotic and so far removed from reality. :rolleyes:

[Mace]

There's no evidence whatever the Bills had brilliant coaches or a good game plan.

With Burrow shredding the zone coverage and struggling against man, they stayed primarily in zone. With Burrow having success all season against 4 man rushes, they primarily rushed 4, even when they blitzed, they dropped a lineman into coverage to only rush 4. Where Baltimore had success with stunts, we did not attempt any that I noticed.

They did not attempt to use the speed of Hines or Cook with screens, nor Beasley with fast slants.

They lined up deeper than the 1st down marker in zone. They came out flat and unmotivated and by the end were going through the motions.

Wake up, that's all coaching, and it starts with McDermott who is not learning from his mistakes.

[notacon]

There's no evidence whatever the Bills had brilliant coaches or a good game plan.

With Burrow shredding the zone coverage and struggling against man, they stayed primarily in zone. With Burrow having success all season against 4 man rushes, they primarily rushed 4, even when they blitzed, they dropped a lineman into coverage to only rush 4. Where Baltimore had success with stunts, we did not attempt any that I noticed.

They did not attempt to use the speed of Hines or Cook with screens, nor Beasley with fast slants.

They lined up deeper than the 1st down marker in zone. They came out flat and unmotivated and by the end were going through the motions.

Wake up, that's all coaching, and it starts with McDermott who is not learning from his mistakes.

No one said the Bills had "brilliant coaches or a good game plan”.

BUT, even if they DID, it takes the players executing. In a handful of situations that I highlighted above, they did not. And they did not even have to perform at a high level in those plays.

[Mace]

No one said the Bills had "brilliant coaches or a good game plan”.

BUT, even if they DID, it takes the players executing. In a handful of situations that I highlighted above, they did not. And they did not even have to perform at a high level in those plays.




And it takes coaches coaching what the players are expected to execute. and that's just that. Zac Taylor didn't seem to have a problem protecting Burrow from his patched together OL, and handled the Bills offense without much issue, presumably directing a plan. 4th year of their program, 6th year of ours. They adjust, we don't.

[Typ0]

Notty you are missing an important point: the coaches are responsible for translating their game plan to the field. Hiding behind the execution excuse gets old. If the players can't or aren't doing it is your job to fix it.

[notacon]

Notty you are missing an important point: the coaches are responsible for translating their game plan to the field. Hiding behind the execution excuse gets old. If the players can't or aren't doing it is your job to fix it.

I’m not missing the point at all.

It’s just not an either/or proposition.

Read the examples I cited again. Think back to those moments. Watch them if you have NFL+. (I did before I wrote that post). Every one of those came down to player execution.

Not that I am giving the coaches a free ride. I’m not. They did not execute as well as they should have numerous times.

But, I believe some are missing an important point: the players are responsible to make the plays.

In all the instances I cited (that would have changed three losses into three wins), they had nothing to do with "translating their game plan to the field”....they all had to do with player ****-ups on relatively easy plays.....except maybe the Davis drop in the Jets game.....the ball was a DIME, RIGHT INTO HIS HANDS....he HAS to make that play......the Bills led the league in drops (34), and Davis led the team with nine of them.....so take that back, it was a “relatively easy play” that Davis ****ed up!!

That drop (probably) cost us a win.

Josh short hoping the ball on 4th down vs Miami, DID cost us the game.

Josh fumbling the kneel down snap, DID cost us the game.

Those are undeniable realities.

[sahlensguy]

I’m not missing the point at all.

It’s just not an either/or proposition.

Read the examples I cited again. Think back to those moments. Watch them if you have NFL+. (I did before I wrote that post). Every one of those came down to player execution.

Not that I am giving the coaches a free ride. I’m not. They did not execute as well as they should have numerous times.

But, I believe some are missing an important point: the players are responsible to make the plays.

In all the instances I cited (that would have changed three losses into three wins), they had nothing to do with "translating their game plan to the field”....they all had to do with player ****-ups on relatively easy plays.....except maybe the Davis drop in the Jets game.....the ball was a DIME, RIGHT INTO HIS HANDS....he HAS to make that play......the Bills led the league in drops (34), and Davis led the team with nine of them.....so take that back, it was a “relatively easy play” that Davis ****ed up!!

That drop (probably) cost us a win.

Josh short hoping the ball on 4th down vs Miami, DID cost us the game.

Josh fumbling the kneel down snap, DID cost us the game.

Those are undeniable realities.




Any plays left on the opponents field in our wins? Or are you just looking at us in our losses?

[Typ0]

the players are responsible to make the plays.



People need to be put into a position of success. We have two common threads here: the same coaches and different players who aren't making plays.

Our defense let's everyone march downfield then tightens up in the red zone. It really cuts into the limited chances they have to get stops against good teams. The whole philosophy of the defense is to get them backed up against a wall and then have herculean perfect players available to make it work. Well that never happens. The defense ends up getting owned time after time after time after time in critical situations. We also are going to undergo a lot of personnel change on the defense this season -- change after years of bigger expenditures on the defense in both draft capital and free agent signings. Where does this get us?

Let's rebuild the same old bull**** because everyone in the league has so much respect for Leslie Frazier.

This is not going to be successful. "The process" is supposed to bring about necessary change. It can't when your head coach is myopic. Instead, the process at OBD is to generate the SAME results not different ones.

The team won't be as good next season. We won't win the AFCE. There is always going to be a bogus excuse like the players just couldn't get it done coming out of the mouth of an overthinking myopic narcissist deeply entrenched in their own faulted mindset. We won't have the level of talent next season we enjoyed this year. The opportunity has been squandered.

The situation for the Bills in the immediate future is very grave. You have been watching this team for McDermott's tenure and they have been poorly managed on game day the entire time. Our coaches are taking our players out of games. They do it with poor game plans and play calling. They do it with lousy clock management. They do it by being stringent and not adjusting to anything in favor of "stick with the process".

It's about balance not stubbornness. Our staff is more stubborn than balanced. The wheels have slowly been coming off more and more as time goes on under this regime. It's just going to get uglier and uglier and more painful for everyone until we have to start over -- but let's remember we have a QB who can really play on the squad right now. So let's keep Frazier around out of loyalty and fire a backfield coach to clean up some problems Frazier is having. Yeah, right. Wanna buy a bridge in Florida?

[notacon]

People need to be put into a position of success. We have two common threads here: the same coaches and different players who aren't making plays.

Our defense let's everyone march downfield then tightens up in the red zone. It really cuts into the limited chances they have to get stops against good teams. The whole philosophy of the defense is to get them backed up against a wall and then have herculean perfect players available to make it work. Well that never happens. The defense ends up getting owned time after time after time after time in critical situations. We also are going to undergo a lot of personnel change on the defense this season -- change after years of bigger expenditures on the defense in both draft capital and free agent signings. Where does this get us?

Let's rebuild the same old bull**** because everyone in the league has so much respect for Leslie Frazier.

This is not going to be successful. "The process" is supposed to bring about necessary change. It can't when your head coach is myopic. Instead, the process at OBD is to generate the SAME results not different ones.

The team won't be as good next season. We won't win the AFCE. There is always going to be a bogus excuse like the players just couldn't get it done coming out of the mouth of an overthinking myopic narcissist deeply entrenched in their own faulted mindset. We won't have the level of talent next season we enjoyed this year. The opportunity has been squandered.

The situation for the Bills in the immediate future is very grave. You have been watching this team for McDermott's tenure and they have been poorly managed on game day the entire time. Our coaches are taking our players out of games. They do it with poor game plans and play calling. They do it with lousy clock management. They do it by being stringent and not adjusting to anything in favor of "stick with the process".

It's about balance not stubbornness. Our staff is more stubborn than balanced. The wheels have slowly been coming off more and more as time goes on under this regime. It's just going to get uglier and uglier and more painful for everyone until we have to start over -- but let's remember we have a QB who can really play on the squad right now. So let's keep Frazier around out of loyalty and fire a backfield coach to clean up some problems Frazier is having. Yeah, right. Wanna buy a bridge in Florida?
Not one word of this addresses the facts that I presented in the three games we lost. The team was put in the position to win at the end. The players did not execute relatively simple plays.

And blaming the defense is lazy as can be. It was the OFFENSE that constantly let the team down. The OFFENSE was inconsistent. The OFFENSE ****ed up when the defense put them in a position to win.

Declaring, unequivocally, that the Bills will not win the AFCE next year is what is what is “faulted mindset”.

Sorry, but I do not buy what you are selling.

[Buffalogic]

I like McDermott. He's a good coach. He needs a bona fide OC to handle the offense for this team to take the next step. This Dorsey learning on the job thing is a bad formula for the bills. They also need an aggressive defensive coordinator. Stop playing an archaic defense that never takes the attack to the offense.

[Historian]

It's just another example of McD bowing to conventional wisdom.

I bet you'd find that teams that start games 7 - 0 win more often than teams that start down 7 - 0.

I don't necessarily agree with this.

If you have a good defense, you put them out first to make a statement.

[Typ0]

Not one word of this addresses the facts that I presented in the three games we lost. The team was put in the position to win at the end. The players did not execute relatively simple plays.

And blaming the defense is lazy as can be. It was the OFFENSE that constantly let the team down. The OFFENSE was inconsistent. The OFFENSE ****ed up when the defense put them in a position to win.

Declaring, unequivocally, that the Bills will not win the AFCE next year is what is what is “faulted mindset”.

Sorry, but I do not buy what you are selling.

I am asking what is it going to take to level-up in the playoffs? Are we going to be able to do that with the systems we are currently running? It's a matter of the people we have developing tunnel vision and the necessity for change. McDermott and the Bills would be better off with a change of scenery the way things stand right now. It's just where we are at. Yes, it's my opinion. It's partly dependent on how this season went and what decisions might be made to escape the fallout. And you can't step in and tell McDermott who to hire either that is a different type of powder keg that isn't going where you want to go. McDermott's brain needs to wrap it's way around some adjustments that have to be made that aren't being made. Firing him might just work out best for everyone! I think there are very valid concerns that have been bought up ownership should strongly consider. It just wouldn't surprise me as much as most if Pegula pulled the trigger and tried to mix things up and see what came out. But he would have a plan in place and know what he was doing and where he was going which is a huge hurdle in trying the re-mix strategy.

[CommissarSpartacus]

I don't necessarily agree with this.

If you have a good defense, you put them out first to make a statement.

And that statement is "I don't trust our offense."

[Kenny]

I don't necessarily agree with this.

If you have a good defense, you put them out first to make a statement.

Yeah, I'm in the camp of deferring if you have a good defense. Nothing more debilitating to the other team than forcing a 3 and out, and then your offense marching down the field scoring a TD. And then also getting the ball first in the second half.

[sahlensguy]

Yeah, I'm in the camp of deferring if you have a good defense. Nothing more debilitating to the other team than forcing a 3 and out, and then your offense marching down the field scoring a TD. And then also getting the ball first in the second half.

Easily more debilitating is having the audacity to take the opening ball and effortlessly shove it down the opponents throat.

The like Bengals did us, in the Hamlin game.

[Historian]

And that statement is "I don't trust our offense."

No, it isn't.

And to suggest that illustrates that you really don't understand the American version of the game.

[Novacane]

And that statement is "I don't trust our offense."

Or it could be saying I trust our defense to make the stop and now the advantage is ours.

[CommissarSpartacus]

Or it could be saying I trust our defense to make the stop and now the advantage is ours.

You take the ball and score a TD you get a real advantage, not just a hypothetical one.

[Typ0]

You take the ball and score a TD you get a real advantage, not just a hypothetical one.

OK well you stop them on D then take the ball and score a TD you have created an even greater 'real advantage'.

[OpIv37]

You take the ball and score a TD you get a real advantage, not just a hypothetical one.

ok. But our O went 3 and out on the first two drives and only managed 10 points all game.

You take the ball, you go 3 and out, they march down the field and score a touchdown, and now it's 5 min in the game, and they have a 7 point lead and get the ball first after the half.

Your whole argument is predicated on the assumption that the Bills would have scored if we got the ball first. That's not a realistic assumption.

[CommissarSpartacus]

OK well you stop them on D then take the ball and score a TD you have created an even greater 'real advantage'.

The game does not mandate an equal amount of possessions.

If you take the opening kickoff, it's entirely possible to wind up with one more possession than the other team, and with all things being equal gives you a serious mathematical advantage.

[Typ0]

The game does not mandate an equal amount of possessions.

If you take the opening kickoff, it's entirely possible to wind up with one more possession than the other team, and with all things being equal gives you a serious mathematical advantage.

That's why I think deferring to the 2nd half is viable...because it would be more important to have an extra possession in the 2nd half than the 1st!

We're just going to go back and forth on this one anyway as it is somewhat arbitrary.

[notacon]

I am asking what is it going to take to level-up in the playoffs? Are we going to be able to do that with the systems we are currently running? It's a matter of the people we have developing tunnel vision and the necessity for change. McDermott and the Bills would be better off with a change of scenery the way things stand right now. It's just where we are at. Yes, it's my opinion. It's partly dependent on how this season went and what decisions might be made to escape the fallout. And you can't step in and tell McDermott who to hire either that is a different type of powder keg that isn't going where you want to go. McDermott's brain needs to wrap it's way around some adjustments that have to be made that aren't being made. Firing him might just work out best for everyone! I think there are very valid concerns that have been bought up ownership should strongly consider. It just wouldn't surprise me as much as most if Pegula pulled the trigger and tried to mix things up and see what came out. But he would have a plan in place and know what he was doing and where he was going which is a huge hurdle in trying the re-mix strategy.

Again, you are not addressing what I wrote. We are talking past one another. I’m talking about the slim margin of error that caused the only three losses of the regular season.

If any of those went the other way, and the Bills win just one of those three, the playoffs THIS year could have been far different.


The team’s “systems” did not cause Josh to short hop a 4th down pass vs Miami that would have won the game.

The team’s “systems” did not cause Josh to fumble a game winning kneel down.

The team’s “systems” did not cause Gabe Davis to drop….an incredible pass...a DIME throw 60 yard in the air, after Allen’s elbow was almost taken off....on the Jets 20 yard line thrown right into his hand (or breadbasket…..either way, a professional NFL WR HAS to make that catch).

The most glaring event that was completely out of everyone’s hands and had nothing to do with the “system” was having a player literally DIE on the field. That had a HUGE effect on the team.

It’s a wonder, and goes to the stellar leadership of McDermott and all the other coaches, that team did not fall apart. Until the last game, of course. To discount that is to discount human nature and reality.

This thread is about “firing McDermott”. And I believe (as Beane and Pegula probably do) that is a massively stupid idea.

You don’t blow up a team when looking realistically as to what transpired this season.

You don’t fire the OC. You don’t fire the DC. How ****ing stupid.

The “system” had the Bills with only 3 regular season losses…..and EVERY ONE of those could have (and should have) been wins if not for players ****ing up….especially Josh Allen.

I love Josh and do not want any other QB for this team. The realistic observation is that he is NOT the best QB in the AFC. He regressed this season, and it was not because of Dorsey’s play calling (although I suspect that could have been better). He #3, and has a lot of work to do to rise to the level of Mahomes and Burrow.


I believe he will. And he has presented very strong support of Dorsey. He is not going anywhere. Nor should he.

The “system” did not cause two of their best defensive players go down with injuries. In particular THE player that was specifically brought in to address a shortcoming from 2021.

The “system” did not cause injury after injury after injury all across the starters AND backups.

If only ONE defensive starter on a team was able to play in every game (Taron Johnson) it is going to have a negative effect. But, despite that, the Bills defense stood tall.

It is clear as can be that the OFFENCE let the team down over and over and over again.

Scoring only 10 points vs Cincy was THE problem. I today’s NFL scoring only 10 points almost assures DEFEAT.

I was curious so I did a little research. In the 2022 regular season, there were SEVENTY ONE teams that scored 10 points or less. Their W-L record in those games?.....

2-69.

Week #11….NE 10 – NYJ 3.
Week #13….BAL 10 – DEN 9.

Playoffs is even more stark. Since 2000 (including 2022 so far) there have been 45 teams that have scored 10 or less points (excluding Super Bowls). Their record??...

0-45.


The last time a team scored 10 or less points in a playoff game and won??

1997. PITT 7 – NE 6.

The Super Bowl is even MORE stark….in ALL 56 Super Bowls, one ream has scored 10 or less points SIXTEEN times. Their record????...If you are paying attention you guessed it…..

0-16.

Interestingly, the last team to score 10 or less points in a SB was not very long ago….2020 season, Tampa Bay 31 – Kansas City – 9.

After that shocking and devastating loss there was no (credible) talk of blowing up the Chiefs. No talk of firing Andy Reid. No talk of firing the OC or DC…

And the Bills ending the season with a terrible effort and bad loss does NOT mean you blow it all up. It was ONE GAME. A game that Cincy played almost perfectly….and the Bills emotional baggage finally caught up with them.


“any given Sunday” is not a unrealistic excuse….it’s real because the NFL wants it that way.. Ask Cincy who got their asses handed to them by lowly Cleveland in week 8, losing 32-13.


"….what is it going to take to level-up in the playoffs?”


I’m certainly not qualified to suggest that I have all the answers....NONE of here do. BUT, blowing up the team, and the coaches is absolutely NOT the way forward.

It’s not any one (or even a few) things that need to change that will propel the Bills.

Coaches have to come up with better game plans….the O-line and D-line talent must improve….the Bills have to develop a real running game, by both improving the O-line and the RB position….the WR room has to improve….the Bills need a real threat at #2WR….they players have to PLAY BETTER…and Josh Allen HAS to stop playing with his head up his ass sometimes.

It’s a group effort….and I am not the pessimist that some fans here….I never have been and never will.

The Bills are closer to getting over that playoff hump than an overwhelming majority of the other teams in the NFL.

Firing the HC is NOT the way forward if one is serious about contending.

[sahlensguy]

That's why I think deferring to the 2nd half is viable...because it would be more important to have an extra possession in the 2nd half than the 1st!

We're just going to go back and forth on this one anyway as it is somewhat arbitrary.

The answer is somewhere in the middle. Taking the opening kickoff is an aggressive move. Only do it when you are confident and need to make a statement. Like how the Bengals did it to us in the first match-up.

Something a robotic coach is incapable of doing.

[CommissarSpartacus]

That's why I think deferring to the 2nd half is viable...because it would be more important to have an extra possession in the 2nd half than the 1st!

We're just going to go back and forth on this one anyway as it is somewhat arbitrary.

I think taking the ball shows confidence.

Giving the ball to the other team shows nervousness.

[Forward_Lateral]

The answer is somewhere in the middle. Taking the opening kickoff is an aggressive move. Only do it when you are confident and need to make a statement. Like how the Bengals did it to us in the first match-up.

Something a robotic coach is incapable of doing.
It's all about analytics to McDermott. Analytics likely say defer because of that "2 for 1" possibility at the end of the first half, which was usually when the Bills scored. Unfortunately, vs Cincy, they had that opportunity but squandered it.

[sahlensguy]

It's all about analytics to McDermott. Analytics likely say defer because of that "2 for 1" possibility at the end of the first half, which was usually when the Bills scored. Unfortunately, vs Cincy, they had that opportunity but squandered it.

McD is a robotic HC. Lacks a feel for the ebbs and flows of a game. Always has.

[Forward_Lateral]

McD is a robotic HC. Lacks a feel for the ebbs and flows of a game. Always has.

Yes, he's a pure analytics guy.

[Mace]

It's all about analytics to McDermott. Analytics likely say defer because of that "2 for 1" possibility at the end of the first half, which was usually when the Bills scored. Unfortunately, vs Cincy, they had that opportunity but squandered it.

More like he found an analytic he can point to because it suits his timidity, and then he can tell himself "see, I can use analytics".

Timid, overly conservative, a chicken, a choker.....he's not evolving.

[Mace]

Yes, he's a pure analytics guy.
I just don't see that. The Bills rarely take the high percentage move.

[BuffaloBlitz83]

What's crazy about this thread. After the hamlin incident many fans and media were saying McDermott for coach of year. Now we want him fired? I'd prefer to fire both coordinators. I think Josh needs a more experienced offensive coordinator.

[Mace]

What's crazy about this thread. After the hamlin incident many fans and media were saying McDermott for coach of year. Now we want him fired? I'd prefer to fire both coordinators. I think Josh needs a more experienced offensive coordinator.

They aren't going to fire McDermott, he's an enthusiastic great person, and successful in the regular season. He's a motivational HC, and a manager type. That means he needs nuts and bolts coordinators and he needs to know when to manage them and when to get out of their way because he's frankly no great football mind and timid by nature.

But he's got to take a hard look at himself in the mirror because his job has one goal. If he can't do that, Beane or Pegula need to kick him in the seat of the pants and remind him what the point is. The point is not being a nice guy and great person. So he either gets coordinators and/or stays out of their way and/or manages them, or the window closes with playoff chokes.

He should be starting to sweat, and complacency is not an option or we wasted a franchise QB.

[jamze132]

This thread should be fired.

[Woodman]

Easily more debilitating is having the audacity to take the opening ball and effortlessly shove it down the opponents throat.

The like Bengals did us, in the Hamlin game.

Just like the playoff game we won that flip and deferred.

Cincinnati capped its opening drive with a 28-yard touchdown pass from quarterback Joe Burrow to wide receiver Ja'Marr Chase.


The message they wanted the ball and we helped.

Shake and Bake.

[Typ0]

Wrong coach being fired today. This is a last ditch effort to save face aboard a sinking ship.

Just don't see us making the playoffs. Game over Sean.