Josh allens footwork gets progressively bad every year

[Cali512]

So this is him vs the steelers at the beginning of the season. Notice he carries his hip, the ball comes out naturally, he keeps his body straight, and he doesnt throw himself into each pass


https://youtu.be/N6opC-DyvBo




vs Titans


https://youtu.be/g1zpTg0vGZU


Vs Dolphins week 3


https://youtu.be/NpftkBOTu-M





Now notice the dramatic difference in the last drive vs miami in the playoffs




https://youtu.be/de9IuSrvlo0


Vs the patriots end of year


https://youtu.be/cI-nbZqjCnw


Every int of the season. Notice how his footwork (and decision making), completely changes midway through the season


https://youtu.be/xcJTPRjTldo




Now i know this isnt because of his injury for 2 reasons. One, his bad footwork motion, puts WAY more strain on his arm because it becomes all arm while whipping it more, and 2, this happens every year since 2020


This is his ints in 2020


https://youtu.be/QuqfspOEo0c






Then you see it this year too


https://youtu.be/tpo8_4A_1Z8


First half almost until the vikings game he looks fine. Then its a mess...


This is the interesting thing. I noticed this towards the end of even last year, and he somehow managed to have 2 AMAZING playoff performances, while completely going back to "old josh" fundamentals


Look at him vs KC


https://youtu.be/d63gipMMUeA


Vs Atlanta


https://youtu.be/YyZ4solTY5E





Compared to


Last yr vs houston


https://youtu.be/6S37BExhSTM


Last year vs Miami week 6


https://youtu.be/B7RhnhRuvWU




Its a trend he has. Midway or even the last few weeks of each of the last few seasons, he starts whipping the ball and not using his hips fluidly. Idk if this will change. His fundamentals each year are PERFECT the first few weeks, then slowly go off the rails. I feel like ive made this same thread each of the last few years too. Its extremely obvious

[Cali512]

Very quick comparison i made

https://youtu.be/-6ZvDKnltZw

[YardRat]

One would like to think if his elbow was bothering him the rest of the season he would have focused a little bit more on footwork (and shorter passes) to compensate, but apparently he didn't.

[Saratoga Slim]

Hopefully it's back to Jordan Palmer for an offseason tuneup in a few weeks.

[Historian]

I noticed he threw off his back foot alot down the stretch.

[OpIv37]

I think it's hero ball. Early in the season, everything was clicking. Josh could relax and concentrate on the fundamentals without thinking he needs to do something spectacular to win the game. After the bye, basically every game was a dogfight. I think he felt the need to win the game himself, so he was running around looking for the huge play and not concentrating on the basics.

I'm starting to doubt that the Beane/McD/Allen combo will ever get us a title. They score a lot of points. They win a lot of games. It's so much better than the drought years. But they can't get past the juggernauts.

[sukie]

Astounding that this team was two seconds and a bad snap from being 15-1

i appreciate the work and effort put into these threads but I’m beyond over analyzing the past that cannot change.

go Bills.

[OpIv37]

Astounding that this team was two seconds and a bad snap from being 15-1

i appreciate the work and effort put into these threads but I’m beyond over analyzing the past that cannot change.

go Bills.

Even if we were 15-1 we still would have gotten crushed by the Bengals. We're just not ready to beat the elite teams in the playoffs.

[Cali512]

Astounding that this team was two seconds and a bad snap from being 15-1

i appreciate the work and effort put into these threads but I’m beyond over analyzing the past that cannot change.

go Bills.


Its not that. Its the thing that made him a star that he just cannot consistently maintain for some reason. He loses it the longer the season goes on
I made this to fully explain what i mean. Look at his center, follow through, and hips. Its alarming that it goes from one thing to another in one season


https://youtu.be/sbZv3RBsGas

[OpIv37]

Its not that. Its the thing that made him a star that he just cannot consistently maintain for some reason. He loses it the longer the season goes on
I made this to fully explain what i mean. Look at his center, follow through, and hips. Its alarming that it goes from one thing to another in one season


https://youtu.be/sbZv3RBsGas

Maybe we just need to pay Jordan Palmer to be on our staff and coach Josh all year.

[sahlensguy]

I'm starting to doubt that the Beane/McD/Allen combo will ever get us a title. They score a lot of points. They win a lot of games. It's so much better than the drought years. But they can't get past the juggernauts.

Should have let McD go last year after the 13 seconds and promoted Daboll.

[OpIv37]

Should have let McD go last year after the 13 seconds and promoted Daboll.

In hindsight, I agree with you. At the time, no one would have made that call. In January of 2022, McD had us in the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, with 2 straight division titles and 3 wins in playoff games, after a 17 year playoff drought. And, I remember people questioning Daboll's playcalling, and we had no idea at the time that he'd be a good head coach.

Knowing what we know now, about the Bills choking in the playoffs again and Daboll resurrecting the Giants overnight, I'd go back in time and fire McD in favor of Daboll in a second. In the moment, though, it just wouldn't have made sense.

[kgun12]

Astounding that this team was two seconds and a bad snap from being 15-1

i appreciate the work and effort put into these threads but I’m beyond over analyzing the past that cannot change.

go Bills.

I agree, we should just cut or trade Allen, eat his cap hit and try for 17 years to find his replacement. We all know he sucks!

While we’re at it, fire this entire coaching staff and bring in Lovie Smith, he’s got a lot of NFL experience cause no other experienced coach will come to Buffalo!

[OpIv37]

I agree, we should just cut or trade Allen, eat his cap hit and try for 17 years to find his replacement. We all know he sucks!

Or, maybe Josh and the coaches can pay more attention to his footwork over the course of the season?

Pointing out that a player can do something better doesn't mean someone wants him off the team. FFS.

[Jeff1220]

I think it's hero ball. Early in the season, everything was clicking. Josh could relax and concentrate on the fundamentals without thinking he needs to do something spectacular to win the game. After the bye, basically every game was a dogfight. I think he felt the need to win the game himself, so he was running around looking for the huge play and not concentrating on the basics.


I agree with Op here. Add the fact that Josh is consistently under pressure behind a crap OL, and the situation is exasperated even further.

[kgun12]

Or, maybe Josh and the coaches can pay more attention to his footwork over the course of the season?

Pointing out that a player can do something better doesn't mean someone wants him off the team. FFS.

How about he should have been selfish and said f**k the season and sat out after he hurt his elbow. Oh course his throwing motion and footwork changed!

Yes, the OC should go, but hell you guys especially you can’t stand winning . Did the season end the way we hoped, no. But the endless attacks on the best quarterback we’ve had since Kelly, a coach that has brought a winning attitude back to this team. Do they need to change some things yes, but how about acknowledging that Allen played hurt and probably shouldn’t have, at the very least he should have not played for 3-4 weeks after the injury.
Yes there needs to be some things fixed and/or changed, but again the endless attacks but a few on Allen is crazy. I’m waiting for the annual thread to start that we could have had Mahomes!

Will he ever bring us a SB win who knows, but I’ll take my chances
free agents that want to be hear,

[Typ0]

How about he should have been selfish and said f**k the season and sat out after he hurt his elbow. Oh course his throwing motion and footwork changed!

Yes, the OC should go, but hell you guys especially you can’t stand winning . Did the season end the way we hoped, no. But the endless attacks on the best quarterback we’ve had since Kelly, a coach that has brought a winning attitude back to this team. Do they need to change some things yes, but how about acknowledging that Allen played hurt and probably shouldn’t have, at the very least he should have not played for 3-4 weeks after the injury.
Yes there needs to be some things fixed and/or changed, but again the endless attacks but a few on Allen is crazy. I’m waiting for the annual thread to start that we could have had Mahomes!

Will he ever bring us a SB win who knows, but I’ll take my chances
free agents that want to be hear,

I disagree. If OP can do this analysis then so can a coach -- which means they don't work the issue. They don't coach up Josh Allen in favor of their Allen or bust attitude.

Do you doubt that is true? Then why does the same behavior continue to happen like it is groundhog day?

McDermott is very slow to adjust. He is narrowminded and loyal to a fault. This team is not going to rise to the top under his leadership until HE changes. He's not changing. It's time to sever and move onto someone who will coach Allen about constraints and not being a haphazard wreck.

[sahlensguy]

In hindsight, I agree with you. At the time, no one would have made that call. In January of 2022, McD had us in the playoffs 4 times in 5 years, with 2 straight division titles and 3 wins in playoff games, after a 17 year playoff drought. And, I remember people questioning Daboll's playcalling, and we had no idea at the time that he'd be a good head coach.

Knowing what we know now, about the Bills choking in the playoffs again and Daboll resurrecting the Giants overnight, I'd go back in time and fire McD in favor of Daboll in a second. In the moment, though, it just wouldn't have made sense.

Yeah, I think I called for this a year ago without even knowing Daboll would have the year he did. Anyway...Allen's success earlier this year was mostly a carry over from last year and Daboll. Now we're stuck with a defensive HC and the top offensive coach whi is a lunatic new guy. Allen surely won't peak with that leadership.

[kgun12]

I disagree. If OP can do this analysis then so can a coach -- which means they don't work the issue. They don't coach up Josh Allen in favor of their Allen or bust attitude.

Do you doubt that is true? Then why does the same behavior continue to happen like it is groundhog day?

McDermott is very slow to adjust. He is narrowminded and loyal to a fault. This team is not going to rise to the top under his leadership until HE changes. He's not changing. It's time to sever and move onto someone who will coach Allen about constraints and not being a haphazard wreck.

Nope everything Op said is correct, but all these threads and posts about his play are over the top, especially a few posters and not names Op. I would blame his footwork and throwing motion on his injury, OC/QB coach and yes Josh. Again, Josh probably shouldn’t have played 3 or 4 games right after the injury. Yes he could throw but at what cost, exactly what we are talking about in this thread. I have seen posts that Josh is even responsible for Davis’s catch percentage drop even though Beasley and Diggs were above league average.

What scares the hell out of me is his confidence. Go back and watch a few plays from the first couple games, then watch them after the injury and especially the last couple game when he was taking those sacks He has the look as Losman, and Johnson at the end, confused, deer in the headlights and unconfident

Hopefully he heals up, gets some good coaching and advice and most importantly, some O-line help!

BTW, does anyone think Josh is okay with his deficiencies?

[Forward_Lateral]

Nobody's whining about his footwork when he's throwing 60 yard dimes off of his back foot, on the run.

[sahlensguy]

Nobody's whining about his footwork when he's throwing 60 yard dimes off of his back foot, on the run.

So once a game?

[Forward_Lateral]

So once a game?

He's making throws off of his back foot way more than once a game, you know this.

The point is, nobody complains about his footwork or mechanics when he's making plays. I'd be willing to guess that his injury affected him more than he's said, and was probably a factor in said bad footwork. He mentioned having to change his arm motion to avoid pain, which is kind of un heard of really.

[sahlensguy]

Nope everything Op said is correct, but all these threads and posts about his play are over the top, especially a few posters and not names Op. I would blame his footwork and throwing motion on his injury, OC/QB coach and yes Josh. Again, Josh probably shouldn’t have played 3 or 4 games right after the injury. Yes he could throw but at what cost, exactly what we are talking about in this thread. I have seen posts that Josh is even responsible for Davis’s catch percentage drop even though Beasley and Diggs were above league average.

What scares the hell out of me is his confidence. Go back and watch a few plays from the first couple games, then watch them after the injury and especially the last couple game when he was taking those sacks He has the look as Losman, and Johnson at the end, confused, deer in the headlights and unconfident

Hopefully he heals up, gets some good coaching and advice and most importantly, some O-line help!

BTW, does anyone think Josh is okay with his deficiencies?

Josh is not ok.

The kid no one wanted from a places no one cares about to sudden adulation with no coaching support system, sketchy scheme, and a porous and troubled OL.

Yeah his career is in trouble. The faster the rise the faster the fall.

[OpIv37]

He's making throws off of his back foot way more than once a game, you know this.

The point is, nobody complains about his footwork or mechanics when he's making plays. I'd be willing to guess that his injury affected him more than he's said, and was probably a factor in said bad footwork. He mentioned having to change his arm motion to avoid pain, which is kind of un heard of really.

Here's the problem with that thought process: Anyone who has ever thrown a baseball or football knows that the throwing motion uses the whole body, not just the arm. Josh is one of the few people on the planet who can get away with throwing solely with his arm. But, if his footwork is bad, that means his feet and body aren't assisting with the throw, so his arm is working harder.

It's counterintuitive. If his arm is hurting, setting his feet and using a proper throwing motion means it's easier on his arm.

[Forward_Lateral]

Here's the problem with that thought process: Anyone who has ever thrown a baseball or football knows that the throwing motion uses the whole body, not just the arm. Josh is one of the few people on the planet who can get away with throwing solely with his arm. But, if his footwork is bad, that means his feet and body aren't assisting with the throw, so his arm is working harder.

It's counterintuitive. If his arm is hurting, setting his feet and using a proper throwing motion means it's easier on his arm.
Sure, but you can't just change that mid season.

I'm sure he will look at his film this offseason, and make corrections.

To me, it's a combination of a few things. 1.) his injury. It made his footwork flaws stand out even more. He's never had the best footwork, let's be honest it's not just this year.

2.) The protection has been bad. He took a lot of big hits down the stretch, and I think it got him to evacuate the pocket too early on many occasions. I think being under duress so often made him under duress almost all the time. If that makes sense. He felt pressure even during the few times there wasn't any, causing him to rush throws, hence bad footwork, etc.

Is it correctable? Yes. He's shown that he has the unique ability to improve his mechanics, etc. Will his footwork ever be textbook? I highly doubt it.

[YardRat]

Sure, but you can't just change that mid season.

I'm sure he will look at his film this offseason, and make corrections.

To me, it's a combination of a few things. 1.) his injury. It made his footwork flaws stand out even more. He's never had the best footwork, let's be honest it's not just this year.

2.) The protection has been bad. He took a lot of big hits down the stretch, and I think it got him to evacuate the pocket too early on many occasions. I think being under duress so often made him under duress almost all the time. If that makes sense. He felt pressure even during the few times there wasn't any, causing him to rush throws, hence bad footwork, etc.

Is it correctable? Yes. He's shown that he has the unique ability to improve his mechanics, etc. Will his footwork ever be textbook? I highly doubt it.

You just pointed out he made a change mid-season to avoid pain.

[YardRat]

Still think his head was a bigger problem than his elbow or the play-calling.

[sahlensguy]

Still think his head was a bigger problem than his elbow or the play-calling.

Yes

[sukie]

Still think his head was a bigger problem than his elbow or the play-calling.

You are in Camp Dorsey? Play calling was awesome?

[kgun12]

Wasn’t Josh the hands down favorite for MVP by almost everyone on the board and the national media until around week 9-10? I also think we were the SB Champions until that same point by all the same aforementioned people. Then Josh hurt his elbow and everything change, right ir wrong? Now his career is in b trouble, WOW!

[Forward_Lateral]

You just pointed out he made a change mid-season to avoid pain.

Yeah, in arm angle, because HE COULDNT THROW normally.

You are comparing apples to oranges, as usual

[Cali512]

Firstly. Footwork is the one thing that EVERYONE acknowledges was the biggest difference from year 3 to year 4. Every year he goes through a stretch where he goes up and down, while its usually around the time where his footwork goes from how it is in the beginning of the year, to year 2 Josh fundamentals. Year 2 josh still made all these incredible plays a few times a game, but hes his best when he's consistently using the footwork that palmer gave him

I even showed some plays of good footwork with ints and bad footwork with tds. Its the consistency im talking about. Most of his worst plays or most innacurate games, are the ones where his footwork isn't consistent all game. Every year his footwork is extremely consistent through the first 4-5 weeks, and thats the time where hes usually playing the best he did all season


Yes he gets away with it. The KC and New England playoff game it was all over the place. Yet hes a freak so he sometimes can make it work. He had **** footowork year 2 vs dallas and the final patriots game that season. But the consistency is the reason he made the change in the first place. When your not being consistent with your throwing motion (even his arm gets a different motion) than your decision making becomes worse because your whole body is thrown off. Allens the only QB in the nfl that is extremely consistent with his motion throughout the course of the season. Hes also the most inconsistent with his highs and lows

Also this has been going on for 3 years, it doesnt have anything to do with his injury. That may of played a role in his decision making which may of got his mind all ****ed where he started losing fundamentals. But that doesnt explain why it dramatically changes through the course of every season, or the fact that his good footwork is actually putting less strain on his arm rather than when he throws the other ball with all arm

Its like having a daily routine. Sure you may have some of the best days of your life when you dont do the routine here and there. But eventually it catches up to you, then you realize you need that routine to consistently have better mental health every day. QBs need to develop a throwing motion and consistently do that. Just like nba free throw routines. Everything is about consistency in sports, you need that. He just developed it so if your not consistently doing it, your muscle memory will be thrown off.

He needs to consistently do it, even if he has a bad game with it, and a great game without it. Hes most consistent during the start of the season when his fundamentals are usually the most consistent.

Its a big deal. Yes hes a freak and he sometimes plays great without it, but its about consistency. Every QB in the nfl has been using a motion theyve used since high school. Allen has not, so he has to be consistent with it or its going to throw him off. Once again, there is a reason that the season he mapped out his motion and changed it is when his completion percentage dramatically improved.

[Cali512]

Wasn’t Josh the hands down favorite for MVP by almost everyone on the board and the national media until around week 9-10? I also think we were the SB Champions until that same point by all the same aforementioned people. Then Josh hurt his elbow and everything change, right ir wrong? Now his career is in b trouble, WOW!


? No one is saying this

[Cali512]

Please everyone watch this video. It shows some plays in the beginning of the season vs late in the season this year. Its just a minute long. His base is better, hes not whipping his arm to his side. When his motion is at his best is when he carries his hips, and he doesnt whip his arm. His arm when at his best is tight and stops around the 17, when its off, it goes all the way to his other hip in a whip. Thats how his control becomes off


https://youtu.be/sbZv3RBsGas

Im not picking and choosing what to show. You can literally go to all the videos i showed that showcase games from early in the season, than late, and you see it clearly

[Mace]

Still think his head was a bigger problem than his elbow or the play-calling.

I sure hope you're wrong. Can't say you are.

[Cali512]

I sure hope you're wrong. Can't say you are.



Ive been asking this the last 3 weeks and no one can answer it. Name more than 3 run plays we ran with our RBs past week 3? We had 3 runs in our playbook all season. Completely abandoned toss plays and stretch plays after week 3

Shotgun to the B gap, shotgun to C game, single back power

Thats the only 3 plays we for our rbs after week 3

I also believe the shotgun runs were actually RPOs

[kgun12]

? No one is saying this

Check out post #23.

[kgun12]

Please everyone watch this video. It shows some plays in the beginning of the season vs late in the season this year. Its just a minute long. His base is better, hes not whipping his arm to his side. When his motion is at his best is when he carries his hips, and he doesnt whip his arm. His arm when at his best is tight and stops around the 17, when its off, it goes all the way to his other hip in a whip. Thats how his control becomes off


https://youtu.be/sbZv3RBsGas

Im not picking and choosing what to show. You can literally go to all the videos i showed that showcase games from early in the season, than late, and you see it clearly

Please, we all acknowledge he has issues, but some of us understand they were because of the injuries and the decline of the line and Dorsey’s bad play calling.

What is your point?

[kgun12]

Still think his head was a bigger problem than his elbow or the play-calling.

I see this but it’s because of the other issues. (I hope) This team did go through a lot this season, let’s hope they and especially Josh can rest.

[Cali512]

Please, we all acknowledge he has issues, but some of us understand they were because of the injuries and the decline of the line and Dorsey’s bad play calling.

What is your point?


Explain why this has happened every year for the past 3 years? I really dont think you even read my post

It got better vs NE in the last game, it was good first half vs miami in the playoffs. Second half vs miami it went off the rails again

I mapped all this out with videos from the last 3 years, i dont get why this is so confusing to you. Its not his arm, it may have a little to do with the OL, but it happens every year where he consistently is inconsistent with his fundamentals

If its to many videos for you to watch, then just watch the video i made from the last post, then watch the 2020 interceptions and 2022 interceptions. Its like 6-7 minutes to watch all of them. It shows the progression of inconsistency throught the years

[kgun12]

I do read your posts but what’s the point and what do you want us to say, seriously what’s the point of telling us the same thing over and over?

[Cali512]

I do read your posts but what’s the point and what do you want us to say, seriously what’s the point of telling us the same thing over and over?


Whats the point of saying anything on here?

Everyone says "well the issue is this and this and this"

We have 20 threads about his injury/playcalling/mind. Yet one post about his fundamentals and your acting like its overkill?

Its something that rarely gets mentioned unless i do it, so theres a place for it on this board. Would you rather me make another thread about playcalling, fire our coaches, new running game, better weapons? Or would you rather an in depth showcasing of an issue with our QBs fundamentals which could explain inconsistency?

[kgun12]

Whats the point of saying anything on here?

Everyone says "well the issue is this and this and this"

We have 20 threads about his injury/playcalling/mind. Yet one post about his fundamentals and your acting like its overkill?

Its something that rarely gets mentioned unless i do it, so theres a place for it on this board. Would you rather me make another thread about playcalling, fire our coaches, new running game, better weapons? Or would you rather an in depth showcasing of an issue with our QBs fundamentals which could explain inconsistency?

You’re right unless you keep mentioning it. You’ve made your point every time you mention it. Answer my question, what’s the point and what are you looking for us to say? Yes you watch type and told us again about the quarterback’s fundamentals.
Here’s another question, you say it’s been happening for three years but we were 13 seconds from a SB last year, wasn’t a problem then was it?

Here’s another thing, Mahomes, might have the worst fundamentals in the league, jump passes, throwing off the wrong foot all the time, side arm, underarm and he’s probably going to probably win the MVP this year. A lot of today’s QB’s are unorthodox. It’s more about lack of talent, scheme and coaching.

[Cali512]

You’re right unless you keep mentioning it. You’ve made your point every time you mention it. Answer my question, what’s the point and what are you looking for us to say? Yes you watch type and told us again about the quarterback’s fundamentals.
Here’s another question, you say it’s been happening for three years but we were 13 seconds from a SB last year, wasn’t a problem then was it?

Here’s another thing, Mahomes, might have the worst fundamentals in the league, jump passes, throwing off the wrong foot all the time, side arm, underarm and he’s probably going to probably win the MVP this year. A lot of today’s QB’s are unorthodox. It’s more about lack of talent, scheme and coaching.


Honestly i expect people to give their points of view on what they see from the videos and if theyve noticed this too. Yes we were 13 seconds away from the championship game. Doesnt chance the massive inconsistency he has throughout the game

I even said, last year in the playoffs his fundamentals were some of the worst ive seen from him. But he still took the game over with pure talent. The problem is when he is like that, and its continuously changing through the course of the season, thats an issue. His accuracy is plainly at his best with his base fundamentals, and he plays better when hes continuously using them


We all agree hes up and down during the course of the season. Im pretty sure this is why. Yes he has amazing games when its off, but it definitely effects his accuracy during a lot of games. Most of the times when hes on, hes using those fundamentals

This is the main thing. Yes mahomes has bad fundamentals. But he also has a base throwing motion that is pretty consistent when he has a clean pocket or is stationary. Allen does not. Allen could be in a clean pocket in one game and throw with his taught fundamentals, then another game his feet/arm/hips are everywhere which is usually the games where his accuracy is everywhere

Allens biggest issue is his consistency week in and week out. Every year his fundamentals are great at the beginning and completely fall off in the middle/end of the season.

Yes he can have great games when his fundamentals are off. We saw that in 2020 before he adjusted. But his bad missed to wide open receivers usually are when he gets out of his specific throwing motion

Im trying to answer the question as to why hes so up and down during the season. Yes he plays great sometimed despite it, but even allen said that last year he got into a certain zone in the postseason where hes never gotten before. Most games hes not going to be in that zone so youd want to have a consistent base to fall back on.


Im only further explaining because most of this thread is blaming his injury, and im trying to explain this is an issue hes had for his whole career. Its something interesting to keep an eye on because its a drastic difference every year

[kgun12]

Honestly i expect people to give their points of view on what they see from the videos and if theyve noticed this too. Yes we were 13 seconds away from the championship game. Doesnt chance the massive inconsistency he has throughout the game

I even said, last year in the playoffs his fundamentals were some of the worst ive seen from him. But he still took the game over with pure talent. The problem is when he is like that, and its continuously changing through the course of the season, thats an issue. His accuracy is plainly at his best with his base fundamentals, and he plays better when hes continuously using them


We all agree hes up and down during the course of the season. Im pretty sure this is why. Yes he has amazing games when its off, but it definitely effects his accuracy during a lot of games. Most of the times when hes on, hes using those fundamentals

This is the main thing. Yes mahomes has bad fundamentals. But he also has a base throwing motion that is pretty consistent when he has a clean pocket or is stationary. Allen does not. Allen could be in a clean pocket in one game and throw with his taught fundamentals, then another game his feet/arm/hips are everywhere which is usually the games where his accuracy is everywhere

Allens biggest issue is his consistency week in and week out. Every year his fundamentals are great at the beginning and completely fall off in the middle/end of the season.

Yes he can have great games when his fundamentals are off. We saw that in 2020 before he adjusted. But his bad missed to wide open receivers usually are when he gets out of his specific throwing motion

Im trying to answer the question as to why hes so up and down during the season. Yes he plays great sometimed despite it, but even allen said that last year he got into a certain zone in the postseason where hes never gotten before. Most games hes not going to be in that zone so youd want to have a consistent base to fall back on.


Im only further explaining because most of this thread is blaming his injury, and im trying to explain this is an issue hes had for his whole career. Its something interesting to keep an eye on because its a drastic difference every year

Again you’ve made your point, we all see it and hopefully they (he and the coaches) do something to fix it, but like Mahomes, they are what they are and yet you said this earlier this month even with all their flaws.

“ Mahomes- 46 total tds 5,600 total yds, 12 ints

Allen- 42 total tds, 5000 total yds, 14 ints


Allen also didnt play a whole game


Definitely mahomes award, but allens number 2 no question”

[Cali512]

Again you�ve made your point, we all see it and hopefully they (he and the coaches) do something to fix it, but like Mahomes, they are what they are and yet you said this earlier this month even with all their flaws.

� Mahomes- 46 total tds 5,600 total yds, 12 ints

Allen- 42 total tds, 5000 total yds, 14 ints


Allen also didnt play a whole game


Definitely mahomes award, but allens number 2 no question�


Then next time say "i see it too" and move on

Ive honestly lost completely what you are arguing about.

You responded saying "we understand he has issues but we all recognize that it was also due to coaching and an injury

Im trying to explain that this isnt a "this year" problem. Its been going on for 3 years, and i believe its his complete change in throwing motion.

This is a topic about the pattern of him throwing without his base fundamentals every year midway through the season and how the injury isnt the whole issue, its been an issue for 3 years

If your unable to discuss it or dont have anything to contribute, thats fine, but i dont get your need to basically say "dont talk about this, we know, but its also this". When im clearly showing that this is an issue hes had without an injury, and with daboll calling plays.

There are 10-20 threads the last few months about weapons, injury, playcalling, coaching. This is the one thread discussing his change of throwing motion which literally no one mentioned all year. The one thread that actually went back through the last 3 seasons and showed the progression of the seasons where his motion drastically changes midway-end of season.

His change in throwing motion only gets discussed when i bring it up, i have for 2 years. Me bringing up his throwing motion changing is no different than people saying "oh he reads the field bad all of a sudden", "he has poor decision making"

I dont get why it bothers you so much that i even brought it up. I guess its because for some reason people have in their mind that they always need a basic excuse for him when he plays bad. Oh its the weapons, oh its the playcalling, oh we depend on him to much, oh its the injury, oh its the running game. You seem to rather beat your head against the wall trying to figure out how its not allens fault rather than actually thinking about this and see that there is a very specific thing that changes

This is a discussion about specifically Allen, and explaining why he goes from extreme highs to lows in a single season. Whats the "old josh" that people mention. THIS IS IT. Its his back and forth from one throwing motion to the other.

He had 6 really bad games this season, and 4 average games. Was it his injury? Maybe, but that doesnt explain why this happens every single year. What im explaining does.


Im responding to people who are blaming the injury because i dont believe thats it. Its a discussion about a specific thing. I dont get why your so against having a discussion about our QBs complete reverting back to his old fundamentals when everyone is always asking "why is he so inconsistent some games"

If your so against the discussion about the nuance of how a QB throws the actual football, then leave, dont get so offended that someone brought up a topic illustrating the issue FOR THE FIRST TIME ALL SEASON

[YardRat]

You are in Camp Dorsey? Play calling was awesome?

There doesn't have to be 'camps'. This was Dorsey's first year as a coordinator, of course there is a learning curve. This was Josh's fifth season on the field, and he regressed to more Bad Josh instead of taking the next step up to three dimensional chess. He reverted back to checkers.

[YardRat]

Yeah, in arm angle, because HE COULDNT THROW normally.

You are comparing apples to oranges, as usual

A mid-season change is a mid-season change, regardless of the motive. If he can consciously change his throwing motion to alleviate pain, then he can consciously make a change to his feet mechanics.

[YardRat]

I sure hope you're wrong. Can't say you are.

Next year is a big season for Josh. We'll see if he can grow into a legit championship quarterback, or if his ceiling is going to be Dan Marino and Phillip Rivers.


I see this but it’s because of the other issues. (I hope) This team did go through a lot this season, let’s hope they and especially Josh can rest.

I think it's time to stop giving Josh a free pass and treating him with kid gloves. He's a five year vet with plenty of playoff experience and a big contract, there are always going to be distractions, injuries, and extenuating circumstances. He's expected to overcome them and lead the team to a Super Bowl.

[YardRat]

I only watched the KC playoffs Davis highlights but it looked to me like his feet were pointing toward the target, his hips were turning and he was getting some push from his legs.

His mechanics aren't going to be exact on every throw, and they are going to vary here and there as he adapts to the moment, so picking out individual plays here and there isn't necessarily evidence of a definite conclusion.

One would think an alleged trend like this would be seen during the week when Josh is reviewing film and he would work on any corrections he needs to make in between games.

[Cali512]

I only watched the KC playoffs Davis highlights but it looked to me like his feet were pointing toward the target, his hips were turning and he was getting some push from his legs.

His mechanics aren't going to be exact on every throw, and they are going to vary here and there as he adapts to the moment, so picking out individual plays here and there isn't necessarily evidence of a definite conclusion.

One would think an alleged trend like this would be seen during the week when Josh is reviewing film and he would work on any corrections he needs to make in between games.



You just said i picked and chose when you watched one video out of 10 lol. Watch the other ones. I only used that specific video because i know half of yall dont want to watch an hr of videos so i found a few quicker videos


Regardless ill admit one thing. I went back and watched the vikings game and yes, that is where his motion went to **** this season. It got better towards the end of the year, and was good vs the dolphins in the first half but it steadily went back during the end of the game. Then it totally went to **** vs the bengals

So it may of started from the injury like yall suggested. The thing is this did happen last season too so i do think he still has an issue with muscle memory. But yes the difference between the jets and vikings game is pretty apparent. I still think he made it worse on himself because he abandoned his legs and started throwing with all arm

[YardRat]

You just said i picked and chose when you watched one video out of 10 lol. Watch the other ones. I only used that specific video because i know half of yall dont want to watch an hr of videos so i found a few quicker videos


Regardless ill admit one thing. I went back and watched the vikings game and yes, that is where his motion went to **** this season. It got better towards the end of the year, and was good vs the dolphins in the first half but it steadily went back during the end of the game. Then it totally went to **** vs the bengals

So it may of started from the injury like yall suggested. The thing is this did happen last season too so i do think he still has an issue with muscle memory. But yes the difference between the jets and vikings game is pretty apparent. I still think he made it worse on himself because he abandoned his legs and started throwing with all arm

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude you are right. However, if you want to claim his mechanics consistently go to hell every season you really shouldn't use video evidence where his mechanics appear to be fine as evidence.

It's certainly a possibility that he let his footwork slip this season, but then he needs to identify that trend and correct it in real time.

[Cali512]

I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying there isn't sufficient evidence to conclude you are right. However, if you want to claim his mechanics consistently go to hell every season you really shouldn't use video evidence where his mechanics appear to be fine as evidence.

It's certainly a possibility that he let his footwork slip this season, but then he needs to identify that trend and correct it in real time.


I used that specific video because of the 2 td passes to davis where he whips his whole body to make the pass and the throw off his back foot where he flicks his leg then spins after releasing the ball. If you watch the whole game, it was a mix of good but a lot of wonky mechanics. That video was probably the most irrelevant video i showed honestly, but those 3 plays are some of the worst mechanics ive seen from him. I just threw it in there to show that sometimes he does get loose and still plays amazing. But those games are more of the exception to the rule. If i was trying to be bias i wouldve left that one alone because i know people will think it contradicts the point, but i posted it to explain that hes so talented that he can make weird mechanics work at times. Its when it becomes a trend for a stretch that it gets very wonky. I mean 2 of those passes were in a clean pocket to a wide open davis, its not like he got away with something, theyre hard passes to miss lol

If i thought someone would literally just watch that video and that video alone, i wouldnt of used it. I assumed people would watch a few of the other videos and then see that video.


Idk what you mean by not enough evidence to show that im right. Every video i posted shows games where his mechanics are amazing and games where they are awful. Almost every game where his mechanics are amazing, are at the beginning of the season, while the worst ones are towards the end.

Yes if you watched one video that was honestly the least important one, than i guess you can say thats not enough evidence. But once again, it was the least important video out of all of them

[Forward_Lateral]

A mid-season change is a mid-season change, regardless of the motive. If he can consciously change his throwing motion to alleviate pain, then he can consciously make a change to his feet mechanics.

Lol you are obtuse

[kgun12]

Next year is a big season for Josh. We'll see if he can grow into a legit championship quarterback, or if his ceiling is going to be Dan Marino and Phillip Rivers.



I think it's time to stop giving Josh a free pass and treating him with kid gloves. He's a five year vet with plenty of playoff experience and a big contract, there are always going to be distractions, injuries, and extenuating circumstances. His contract numbers expected to overcome them and lead the team to a Super Bowl.

I’m not giving him a pass, my question is what is the solution? I know endless threads and videos of the issue which we ALL acknowledge to varying degrees is there, it’s mind numbing! His contract number aren’t going away, but to say there are always distractions is funny. Having a teammate almost die on the field is more than a distraction, have to move a home game with two day’s notice is more than a distraction. Injuries are but when it’s on the throwing arm of the QB it’s more than a distraction.

Again, what’s the solution? I know what mine is, bring in a QB coach and OC that are going to work on his issues and develop an offense that is more balanced run to pass and doesn’t always rely on Josh’s legs or the long ball. But the very first thing that has to be done it’s to upgrade the line.
I’m not saying Josh doesn’t own his issues but the lack of coaching isn’t helping.
Let me explain, nature says if you allow a bad behavior happen and don’t correct it, it will continue to happen. The coaches need to let Josh’s elbow heal then work all off season to correct his mechanics. This will not be an easy task because for every hour a bad habit is performed, it takes 3 hours to correct!

[DraftBoy]

Nobody's whining about his footwork when he's throwing 60 yard dimes off of his back foot, on the run.

I wouldn’t say nobody is. It’s not like the critiques of his technique have been silent his entire career.

[YardRat]

I’m not giving him a pass, my question is what is the solution? I know endless threads and videos of the issue which we ALL acknowledge to varying degrees is there, it’s mind numbing! His contract number aren’t going away, but to say there are always distractions is funny. Having a teammate almost die on the field is more than a distraction, have to move a home game with two day’s notice is more than a distraction. Injuries are but when it’s on the throwing arm of the QB it’s more than a distraction.

Again, what’s the solution? I know what mine is, bring in a QB coach and OC that are going to work on his issues and develop an offense that is more balanced run to pass and doesn’t always rely on Josh’s legs or the long ball. But the very first thing that has to be done it’s to upgrade the line.
I’m not saying Josh doesn’t own his issues but the lack of coaching isn’t helping.
Let me explain, nature says if you allow a bad behavior happen and don’t correct it, it will continue to happen. The coaches need to let Josh’s elbow heal then work all off season to correct his mechanics. This will not be an easy task because for every hour a bad habit is performed, it takes 3 hours to correct!

He needs to continue his growth. That's on him, not any coach or anybody else.

[kgun12]

He needs to continue his growth. That's on him, not any coach or anybody else.

I don’t agree, whether he calls Brady like Mahomes or watches videos or get a personal trainer, you don’t know what you don’t know. The work will be his, but unless someone helps him he can’t fix it.

It’s like crewing with your mouth open, unless someone tells you that it is as gross as thing as you can do at a dinner table you will continue to do it. Once someone tells you how vile it is then it’s up to you to correct, but when you slip up there needs to be someone to say mouth closed!

If he’s not told what he doing wrong and it’s not reenforced he can’t correct it!

I’ve coached at all level and you have to keep correcting because humans will fall back to old habits. That’s what coaches are for and that’s what parents are for.

Here another example: When a puppy pisses on the floor you don’t say one time no no and they go outside after that.

[Mace]

Next year is a big season for Josh. We'll see if he can grow into a legit championship quarterback, or if his ceiling is going to be Dan Marino and Phillip Rivers.



I think it's time to stop giving Josh a free pass and treating him with kid gloves. He's a five year vet with plenty of playoff experience and a big contract, there are always going to be distractions, injuries, and extenuating circumstances. He's expected to overcome them and lead the team to a Super Bowl.

He was extremely legit and on a pace to pass Manning for yards per season record up until the bye. I don't know what happened at the bye, but Allen was legit. That wasn't Marino or Rivers. Then he just fell apart, but there isn't any doubt to me that he was legit. I just can't imagine how he crumpled. But then again, I still can't grasp how the whole team did. That was just not an impressive demonstration of anything, though they eked out a lot from it.

[YardRat]

I don’t agree, whether he calls Brady like Mahomes or watches videos or get a personal trainer, you don’t know what you don’t know. The work will be his, but unless someone helps him he can’t fix it.

It’s like crewing with your mouth open, unless someone tells you that it is as gross as thing as you can do at a dinner table you will continue to do it. Once someone tells you how vile it is then it’s up to you to correct, but when you slip up there needs to be someone to say mouth closed!

If he’s not told what he doing wrong and it’s not reenforced he can’t correct it!

I’ve coached at all level and you have to keep correcting because humans will fall back to old habits. That’s what coaches are for and that’s what parents are for.

Here another example: When a puppy pisses on the floor you don’t say one time no no and they go outside after that.

He's not a puppy, he's full grown. He was potty trained his first couple of seasons, when he pisses on the floor now it's his fault.

I'm not saying he shouldn't get help and training from others, but it's up to him to do it. He's been in the league five seasons and has gone through the working on the mechanics from scratch, if they are slipping he should be the first to recognize and the first to try correcting. If he's not playing efficient football and hurting the team in the process, he should be the first to recognize it and the first to correct it.

This is his team. He is the man. It's on him.

[kgun12]

He's not a puppy, he's full grown. He was potty trained his first couple of seasons, when he pisses on the floor now it's his fault.

I'm not saying he shouldn't get help and training from others, but it's up to him to do it. He's been in the league five seasons and has gone through the working on the mechanics from scratch, if they are slipping he should be the first to recognize and the first to try correcting. If he's not playing efficient football and hurting the team in the process, he should be the first to recognize it and the first to correct it.

This is his team. He is the man. It's on him.

You obviously have never been in charge of people. In my old job following a SOP or directives to the letter are very important along with phraseology. There are set way we had to say big and in a certain order. Every single controller know there are rules and need to be followed to the letter. If they aren’t constantly monitored and corrected these procedures or phraseology we relax, it’s called drift. So it’s up to the supervisor to make on the spot corrections when they see a procedure or phraseology not followed to the letter. The main reason for this is if there is an accident or incident if we aren’t spot on the lawyers we use it against the FAA in court. Everything is recorded and it’s our own worst enemy. If so important that we have to pull random records of controllers and have a listening session with them. The controllers no this, yet still drift.
Same thing happened when I coached, if we didn’t continuously point out bad habits they would continue do do them. In sone cases the only thing that would suffer is the batting average or ERA, in other cases especially for pitchers injury.
It’s the reason businesses have supervisors teams have coaches.
To think he can fix some of these issues by himself is foolish, but then again so is this thread for the most part. Like gas been said before, I don’t remember any of this silly threads last year after the KC game and as this thread points out, he has had these issues forever. Can’t wait for FA so we can read threads about how stupid a signing was of the lack of signings.

Here’s a question for you, do you think Mahomes success is all on him or does Reid have something to do with it?

[notacon]

Does this thread mean that Cali is abandoning his proclamation earlier this season that Josh Allen is MUCH better than Mahomes, and “it’s not even close”???

[YardRat]

You obviously have never been in charge of people. In my old job following a SOP or directives to the letter are very important along with phraseology. There are set way we had to say big and in a certain order. Every single controller know there are rules and need to be followed to the letter. If they aren’t constantly monitored and corrected these procedures or phraseology we relax, it’s called drift. So it’s up to the supervisor to make on the spot corrections when they see a procedure or phraseology not followed to the letter. The main reason for this is if there is an accident or incident if we aren’t spot on the lawyers we use it against the FAA in court. Everything is recorded and it’s our own worst enemy. If so important that we have to pull random records of controllers and have a listening session with them. The controllers no this, yet still drift.
Same thing happened when I coached, if we didn’t continuously point out bad habits they would continue do do them. In sone cases the only thing that would suffer is the batting average or ERA, in other cases especially for pitchers injury.
It’s the reason businesses have supervisors teams have coaches.
To think he can fix some of these issues by himself is foolish, but then again so is this thread for the most part. Like gas been said before, I don’t remember any of this silly threads last year after the KC game and as this thread points out, he has had these issues forever. Can’t wait for FA so we can read threads about how stupid a signing was of the lack of signings.

Here’s a question for you, do you think Mahomes success is all on him or does Reid have something to do with it?

I've been working with people my entire life, once they are trained they are expected to function mostly on their own. If they keep making the same mistakes it's up to them to recognize it, acknowledge it, and correct it.

Of course success is a group endeavor but each individual has their responsibility within the group, which is obviously the same mind set as the team given their mantra of "do your 1/11th".

I don't think you're understanding the point, and I've never been one of those "the team rises and falls with Josh" as we see so often, especially to forego that when things go bad and those who believe it reverse course and try to blame others instead of holding Josh responsible.

Golf swings are probably a better analogy than work because the premise is similar...good mechanics = good results. All golfers at some point will get into a funk or get the yips and they rely on 'coaches' to help them rectify it, but a) it's their responsibility to identify when they are shanking drives or putts and initiate the effort to correct and b) when the game is on the responsibility is squarely on the players shoulders.

Allen needs to identify and do what it takes to improve his mechanics if they are slipping, and when he's on the field he needs to make better decisions. If he isn't, then he isn't doing his 1/11th.

[Mr. Pink]

BTW, does anyone think Josh is okay with his deficiencies?

I doubt he thinks he has any, what he's done so far has gotten him a huge contract which will make him and his children set for life and he's beloved in the community.

Why bother changing or worry about anything when it has gotten him to this point?

[Mr. Pink]

Does this thread mean that Cali is abandoning his proclamation earlier this season that Josh Allen is MUCH better than Mahomes, and “it’s not even close”???

I think this past season has shown that Burrow and Mahomes are better than Allen.

Other guys are creeping up on him in stature.

Josh is still in the 3-5 range of NFL QBs currently.

But you can make the case for a guy like Hurts right now being at his level, another season out of him like we just saw and I'd definitely say that Hurts has surpassed him.

[kgun12]

I've been working with people my entire life, once they are trained they are expected to function mostly on their own. If they keep making the same mistakes it's up to them to recognize it, acknowledge it, and correct it.

Of course success is a group endeavor but each individual has their responsibility within the group, which is obviously the same mind set as the team given their mantra of "do your 1/11th".

I don't think you're understanding the point, and I've never been one of those "the team rises and falls with Josh" as we see so often, especially to forego that when things go bad and those who believe it reverse course and try to blame others instead of holding Josh responsible.

Golf swings are probably a better analogy than work because the premise is similar...good mechanics = good results. All golfers at some point will get into a funk or get the yips and they rely on 'coaches' to help them rectify it, but a) it's their responsibility to identify when they are shanking drives or putts and initiate the effort to correct and b) when the game is on the responsibility is squarely on the players shoulders.

Allen needs to identify and do what it takes to improve his mechanics if they are slipping, and when he's on the field he needs to make better decisions. If he isn't, then he isn't doing his 1/11th.

Golfers get more help when they’re in a funk, however golfers work with their coaches all the time to maintain good mechanics , they rarely wait for a yip.
Here’s my point if no one is pointing out issues or shows you how to correct them all Josh is going to do is continue to do the bad habit. Once identified he will need constant reevaluations, corrections and reassurance that it’s actually working.

[sahlensguy]

Josh resorts to hero ball too much. It's the job of his coaches to set him up for success without too much of it. But they don't, so Josh relies on hero ball mote and more, and fundamentals less and less.

[Historian]

I doubt he thinks he has any, what he's done so far has gotten him a huge contract which will make him and his children set for life and he's beloved in the community.

Why bother changing or worry about anything when it has gotten him to this point?

You cannot discount the injury to the throwing elbow.

Allen said it himself....He had to change his mechanics to throw the ball downfield.

Now that does not discount the fact that he passes up on the short stuff in favor of deep routes, but you have to wonder who's responsible for that.

Allen? Dorsey? McDermott?

I don't think we will ever know.

[sahlensguy]

You cannot discount the injury to the throwing elbow.

Allen said it himself....He had to change his mechanics to throw the ball downfield.

Now that does not discount the fact that he passes up on the short stuff in favor of deep routes, but you have to wonder who's responsible for that.

Allen? Dorsey? McDermott?

I don't think we will ever know.

Josh is gifted with an incredible skillset but with tendencies that aren't always conducive to winning football. It is the job of the coaches to harness that talent and make Allen flourish in team football.

It's a shared responsibility.

[Mr. Pink]

You cannot discount the injury to the throwing elbow.

Allen said it himself....He had to change his mechanics to throw the ball downfield.

Now that does not discount the fact that he passes up on the short stuff in favor of deep routes, but you have to wonder who's responsible for that.

Allen? Dorsey? McDermott?

I don't think we will ever know.

A combination of all three.

It's what they live and die with. During the regular season against lesser opponents it works and works frequently. Come playoffs it's a different animal.

Unfortunately we're built to be a regular season powerhouse but we're not built to be strong in the postseason, we're a flawed team that Josh Allen does a hell of a job covering up for. But you can't rely on scoring 30+ come playoff football every game.

[kgun12]

A combination of all three.

It's what they live and die with. During the regular season against lesser opponents it works and works frequently. Come playoffs it's a different animal.

Unfortunately we're built to be a regular season powerhouse but we're not built to be strong in the postseason, we're a flawed team that Josh Allen does a hell of a job covering up for. But you can't rely on scoring 30+ come playoff football every game.

Did anyone watch Mahomes mechanics yesterday, horrible.