kgun's "Where do we go?"....Safety

[YardRat]

Re-sign Poyer?
Rookie draft pick?
Free agent?
Trade?

[Mace]

Re-sign Poyer?
Rookie draft pick?
Free agent?
Trade?

It's a real problem.

I'd prefer to resign Poyer, don't know we can afford to.
-can't see them starting a rookie at a critical position in their "scheme".
-a genuinely capable FA will cost a lot, and I don't know who it is anyway
-not sure we have anyone to trade, and can't afford to send draft picks because we madly need to use them

Find a way to re-sign Poyer for a bit is my hope. Best bandaid.

[Typ0]

Guess I have seen some things that have given me the impression that Poyer and The Bills numbers are quite a bit different and he was going to see what FA would bring him. Letting him walk to overpay another FA doesn't even make sense! Mace is right it's too critical a position in their "scheme" that no one can seem to run well consistently already. McDermott doesn't like to play rookies either. Not a good situation.

[Woodman]

I'd prefer Poyer .... what does his wife want exactly?

Gotta draft a replacement anyways.

[ParanoidAndroid]

If Hyde is back at 100%, we can start a rookie but it would have to be high end, one would think.

I really think this is going to be a year where we take a step back in order to make a leap forward in 2024.

We're going to have to rely on draft picks and bargain FA in order to shave some cap because this season has revealed some gaping holes on both sides of the ball that we thought were filled.

Priority #1 has to be to keep JA upright.

The O-line was not good and needs up to 3 new starters to replace Saffold, Brown and possibly Morse.

We need legit #2 and slot receivers.

We need an all-purpose RB to make our run game less predictable and more explosive.

We need a new 3-tech DL because Oliver ain't the guy.

[Mace]

If Hyde is back at 100%, we can start a rookie but it would have to be high end, one would think.

I really think this is going to be a year where we take a step back in order to make a leap forward in 2024.

We're going to have to rely on draft picks and bargain FA in order to shave some cap because this season has revealed some gaping holes on both sides of the ball that we thought were filled.

Priority #1 has to be to keep JA upright.

The O-line was not good and needs up to 3 new starters to replace Saffold, Brown and possibly Morse.

We need legit #2 and slot receivers.

We need an all-purpose RB to make our run game less predictable and more explosive.

We need a new 3-tech DL because Oliver ain't the guy.

We "can" do things we don't do. They won't start a rookie there, take that off the table.

Priority number 1 was taking care of Allen this year, Beane said so, you can't figure they'll do better with less draft picks because they cringe at starting rookies, and you can't figure they have so much money for FA, and if they do they might hire another Saffold.

Poyer shoud be the least of their problems atm, that's a crucial position to what they at least think they're doing and it's their bad they let it come to this with so many other looming problems that should have been inherent to the process.

Just looks bad to me.

[ParanoidAndroid]

They put a lot of eggs into the 2022 basket and almost all of them broke before Easter.

Bad luck. Like, really bad.

They may have to do things they don't like to do in order to quickly stop the bleeding.

[Ed]

Poyer is gone. I think he's made it pretty clear he won't be back and is looking for top dollar.

I'm all in on moving Christian Benford to safety. I think he can lock down the starting role and provide great low cost value for the next few seasons.

I'd also draft a prospect in the mid to later rounds to replace Jaquan Johnson. And add a cheap vet like Marlowe for depth/experience.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Didn't Beane say Benford is goig to play safety next year and they had the thought of him being a safety at some point in the draft?

At this point, I don't see Benford has a lot of leverage to say no (believe me, any CB having starting potential will say no to switch to safety). He might be quite capable while a 'rookie" at safety but not a rookie in NFL next year.

With Bills cap situation moving forward, this is kind of the scenarios they have to live with. With a few positions like that pan out, you have a strong superbowl contending season (see the Chiefs this year). Otherwise, see the 2022 Bills.

[TacklingDummy]

Time to concentrate on protecting and giving Allen weapons.

I couldn’t careless who plays saftey.

[Woodman]

Weapons and a dominant offensive line.

[Night Train]

Every change to the roster is a so called problem.

I would like to see the actual off-season start and advance some before playing taps on this team. I get many are still hurting after the Cinci game and refuse to be anything but angry and bitter.

I can't even start to look at them seriously until camp. The changes will be many.

[sukie]

It’s the changes we are looking for. That is the point.

there are safeties in the draft. Most projected late day 2 early 3… draft 1

Poyer and edmunds and Hyde contract money can be better put to use.

[Jeff1220]

Poyer and Hyde were originally signed to the Bills as starters, but were not well-known or high priced. They were two foundational bargain free agents. Hopefully Poyer's replacement could be a similar diamond in the rough.

[Jeff1220]

I keep seeing this argument that McBean "won't start rookies" which is far from true. They won't start rookies when there is someone they trust more that can play that position. They've started Edmunds, Tre White, Milano, Elam, Benford, Spencer Brown, Greg Rousseau, and probably others. Many other rookies (Gabe Davis for example) saw significant time to contribute in their first seasons.

[Goobylal]

Benford will take Poyer's place, unless they can get Poyer to agree to a reasonable 1-year deal.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The Bills are a team can't afford to pay premium price for more than 1 player at each position. Safety is Hyde. CB is White. LB is Milano. DE has Miller. Maybe a DT this offseason. I don't see them paying another Safety at the same level as Hyde.

[kgun12]

Hopefully they can find the next Poyer in FA at a decent price like Poyers was.

[Mace]

Listing of 2023 safety fa's.....won't pretend I can fish through it for gems with any degree of competence.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/safety/

[kgun12]

Listing of 2023 safety fa's.....won't pretend I can fish through it for gems with any degree of competence.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/safety/

Me neither, but our new Poyer is on that list.

Philly won’t let him go, he would be good Chauncey Gardner-Johnson!

[Mace]

Me neither, but our new Poyer is on that list.

Philly won’t let him go, he would be good Chauncey Gardner-Johnson!

Owens from Houston stood out to me at the bottom, but they just hired Ryans and have a load of cap, so he's not going anywhere.

[ParanoidAndroid]

He's 33 but Gipson is still playing at a high level and would be super cheap. 5 picks this year.

[Historian]

What the Bills need, are their current rookies and second year guys to simply play better.

When I think of how many rookies made a big impact this year, I get pissed, because our guys aren't cutting it, be it pass rush, blocking, or pass defending.

Time to step up.

[kingJofNYC]

I'd like Poyer back on a 2 year deal but it's not happening. I know they want Benford to step up but lets be ****ing real, he hasn't taken a single snap at the position during an NFL game, they have no way of projecting how he'll do. It's a high risk, boom or bust type decision.

It's a tough situation, can say that a lot this offseason.

[kgun12]

What the Bills need, are their current rookies and second year guys to simply play better.

When I think of how many rookies made a big impact this year, I get pissed, because our guys aren't cutting it, be it pass rush, blocking, or pass defending.

Time to step up.

Here’s another difference between our coaches and others i. e . Reid. McD doesn’t like using rookie so he doesn’t instill confidence in them. Reid drafted 5 rookie DB’s and they all contributed last night. He drafts them and say we need you to come in and play well immediately. McD says step back and learn.

How much better off is KC going into next year!

[sukie]

Bills use rookies? I’m so confused.

Rousseau as a rookie and Basham… played a lot. Oliver, Elam, Benford, Shakir, Cook Hamlin all played as rookies

[kgun12]

Bills use rookies? I’m so confused.

Rousseau as a rookie and Basham… played a lot. Oliver, Elam, Benford, Shakir, Cook Hamlin all played as rookies

Yes, McD is not comfortable using rookies, it’s pretty much common knowledge

[sukie]

Yes, McD is not comfortable using rookies, it’s pretty much common knowledge
Where have rookies NOT played? Who?

[sukie]

Yes, McD is not comfortable using rookies, it’s pretty much common knowledge
Where have rookies NOT played? Who?

[kgun12]

Where have rookies NOT played? Who?

Do you always like to make stupid comments or just here? Again if you follow this team at all this can’t be the first time you’ve heard McD isn’t comfortable starting rookies!

Anyway here are some examples of rookie percentages of playing time:

Bills: Chiefs
RB Cook 24.79%. Pacheco 35.55% (started the SB)
CB Elam 45.39%* McDuffie 59.61% (started the SB) Elam’s % was more to do to injuries.
LB Spector 1.47%. DE Karlafris 63.59%

Of the rookies that were in KC’s 53 man roster, the lowered percentage of PT was 22.74 % Bills 1.47%.

[sukie]

Do you always like to make stupid comments or just here? Again if you follow this team at all this can’t be the first time you’ve heard McD isn’t comfortable starting rookies!

Anyway here are some examples of rookie percentages of playing time:

Bills: Chiefs
RB Cook 24.79%. Pacheco 35.55% (started the SB)
CB Elam 45.39%* McDuffie 59.61% (started the SB) Elam’s % was more to do to injuries.
LB Spector 1.47%. DE Karlafris 63.59%

Of the rookies that were in KC’s 53 man roster, the lowered percentage of PT was 22.74 % Bills 1.47%.
I wasn’t being a smart ass at all. McD played rookies which is what you claimed he didn’t do based on credibility.

who was the RB on the roster ahead of Pacheco?

is that percentage of plays or running plays for the rookies?

did Elam have issues in coverage early on? He still played a lot.

is Pacheco better than Cook?

how about Singletary?

why we even talking about this?

if you select a player that doesn’t fit your schemes and he is forced to learn it… there ya go.

pacheco did a lot that Hill did with sweeps and pitch outs.

Bills dont do any of those… maybe 5 times a season. So Cook is asked to run Singletary’s plays. He is great at catching… they don’t throw to backs… I think Cook recovered nicely from his first ever touch.


Bills bring in Hines… not a rook and yet he is in on a dozen O plays total…

it’s not the green nature of the rookies. It’s the inflexibility of scheme to play to the players strengths.

[sukie]

Sp cypress is a special teams roster filler.

[kgun12]

Where have rookies NOT played? Who?

Here’s the point, I never said they don’t play, you did. I said McD doesn’t like playing rookies.

[Historian]

Here’s another difference between our coaches and others i. e . Reid. McD doesn’t like using rookie so he doesn’t instill confidence in them. Reid drafted 5 rookie DB’s and they all contributed last night. He drafts them and say we need you to come in and play well immediately. McD says step back and learn.

How much better off is KC going into next year!

It's the Patriot blueprint for keeping a team competitive in the salary cap era.

Every time some uppity veteran wanted more money, BB traded them for picks.

Next man up mentality.

As an aside....if they overpay for Poyer and/or Edmunds I will be upset.

[Forward_Lateral]

The more I read, the more I believe Benford will be the Free Safety

[notacon]

A lot is going to depend on what Poyer finds in FA interest.

He want a big payday with several years. Never assume that it won’t happen, but, it does seem unlikely considering his age and his injury prone 2022 season.

Drafting a S sometime in rounds 2-4 seems pretty likely. Moving Benford to S is probably a sure thing. Hope he can pick it up well.

[kgun12]

It's the Patriot blueprint for keeping a team competitive in the salary cap era.

Every time some uppity veteran wanted more money, BB traded them for picks.

Next man up mentality.

As an aside....if they overpay for Poyer and/or Edmunds I will be upset.

I would agree with you but their signing say the opposite of BB and the Patriots way. Diggs, Miller, White, Dawkins, Milano, Morse and Hyde account for roughly 45% of this teams cap and that doesn’t even include Allen!

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Looks like a very top notch HC can make up for some player deficientcies. And unfortunately in Buffalo, McDermott is not it. People should realize now - I'm thinking Terry Pergula can see it as well. This by no means he would/should get rid of MCDermott. It's like getting Allen, a lot of luck involved and you take a wrong step, 17 years drought could happen again.

What I'm saying is that we are in the mold of Cowher, Dungy and many other superbowl winning coaches that you need player talent and one of those years when everything coming together to get to the top. We have the hardest piece, the QB in hand.

Those players kgun12 mentioned was for the strategy that they believe they have enough talent. Turns out they are not. And those guys might have peaked already, in other words, we have seen what they can do at their best. Still not enough. To me the strategy has to be drafting better, hoping to get true stars, no matter the position. Let the natural attrition course to take place: Hyde will roll off thesqud after next year. Milano likely the year after. Don't go chase with big flash contracts again.

I do think investing more in O-Line is a a way to go this year. Trench is to the point we need new quality blood for the next 4, 5 years without paying quality money.

[Woodman]

It's the Patriot blueprint for keeping a team competitive in the salary cap era.

Every time some uppity veteran wanted more money, BB traded them for picks.

Next man up mentality.

As an aside....if they overpay for Poyer and/or Edmunds I will be upset.

Bingo!! :cheers:

[Woodman]

The more I read, the more I believe Benford will be the Free Safety
Might as well pencil him in right now.

[Woodman]

Here’s the point, I never said they don’t play, you did. I said McD doesn’t like playing rookies.
Very true he just doesn't trust them enough.

[TigerJ]

Beane is on the record as saying a move to safety is in the cards for Benford. I doubt the Bills want to trust the starting job to Benford without some insurance, but he would probably upgrade the Bills depth at the position.

[Woodman]

Beane is on the record as saying a move to safety is in the cards for Benford. I doubt the Bills want to trust the starting job to Benford without some insurance, but he would probably upgrade the Bills depth at the position.

Absolutely no question about it.

[YardRat]

Sorry Fin, the code you had in the post was screwing up the thread.

If Poyer goes to Miami, he is dead to me.

[Woodman]

If Poyer goes to Miami, he is dead to me.

Definitely :squish:

[swiper]

It's a real problem.

I'd prefer to resign Poyer, don't know we can afford to.
-can't see them starting a rookie at a critical position in their "scheme".
-a genuinely capable FA will cost a lot, and I don't know who it is anyway
-not sure we have anyone to trade, and can't afford to send draft picks because we madly need to use them

Find a way to re-sign Poyer for a bit is my hope. Best bandaid.

Listening to Poyer on social media it sounds like he has checked out. Multi-millionaires complaining of NY State taxes is so lame. Considering it was the BUFFALO Bills that made him worth what he is. There are some good safeties in the draft. Draft two. Sign a mid-range free agent. I don't want a Poyer that doesn't want to be here. Moreover, with injuries, he may have started on to his downside.

[FinNasty23]

Sorry Fin, the code you had in the post was screwing up the thread.

If Poyer goes to Miami, he is dead to me.

Ya, I don’t know what I did? Lol. Was just trying to post this tweet of a video Poyer did recently talking about Miami…

https://twitter.com/tili____/status/1629226985267548160?s=46&t=hCCI6jqopMjjUUQHYP-bUQ

[Night Train]

If Poyer goes to Miami, he is dead to me.

Thurman says hi. :-)

[Typ0]

Being in New York state sucks for everyone. Guys in Buffalo are stuck paying for all the liberal BS with no way to monetize anything like players in larger metropolitan statistical areas. Edmunds is singing the same tune. They want out of the Bills and it's bigger than the best contract they can sign. I think they also are saying they are tired of the cluster-**** with their actions.

[kgun12]

Being in New York state sucks for everyone. Guys in Buffalo are stuck paying for all the liberal BS with no way to monetize anything like players in larger metropolitan statistical areas. Edmunds is singing the same tune. They want out of the Bills and it's bigger than the best contract they can sign. I think they also are saying they are tired of the cluster-**** with their actions.

I’m sure NYS taxes plays into every player’s decision to sign in Buffalo.

[Woodman]

Maybe the cap should be adjusted depending on the state the team resides.

Gotta level the playing field as well as the paying field.

[notacon]

Being in New York state sucks for everyone. Guys in Buffalo are stuck paying for all the liberal BS with no way to monetize anything like players in larger metropolitan statistical areas. Edmunds is singing the same tune. They want out of the Bills and it's bigger than the best contract they can sign. I think they also are saying they are tired of the cluster-**** with their actions.


I’m sure NYS taxes plays into every player’s decision to sign in Buffalo.
Except professional athletes must pay state income taxes in every state they play any games in.

And the income tax laws are so filled with loopholes for wealthy people it becomes much less significant than right wingers think.

Playing on a winning team, with a solid organization and franchise with a reasonable chance of getting into the playoffs and Super Bowl is much more important.

[Woodman]

And the income tax laws are so filled with loopholes for wealthy people it becomes much less significant than right wingers think.



Wrong forum ...... :idunno:

[notacon]

Wrong forum ...... :idunno:

I didn’t bring it up. You are criticizing the wrong poster.

[YardRat]

Thurman says hi. :-)


Thurman Who?

[YardRat]

Except professional athletes must pay state income taxes in every state they play any games in.

And the income tax laws are so filled with loopholes for wealthy people it becomes much less significant than right wingers think.

Playing on a winning team, with a solid organization and franchise with a reasonable chance of getting into the playoffs and Super Bowl is much more important.

State taxes relative to player's contracts and the cities they may play in is relevant to the topic and this forum.

Attempting to steer the conversation toward a political slant with a term like 'right wingers' is not, and more appropriate for a different forum.

Most fans, regardless of their political leanings, are able to avoid the urge to create more divisiveness and discuss the topic within the appropriate context.

[Canadian'eh!]

The Bills snatched Poyer and Hyde away in FA when they were still underrated. There’s a possibility to do it again.

Giants S Julian Love
Eagles S Marcus Epps or Gardner-Johnson
Cowboys S Donovan Wilson
Detroit S Deshon Elliot.

there’s a few guys to look at that might not cost a ton

[Woodman]

I didn’t bring it up. You are criticizing the wrong poster.

Just read your post and you mentioned Right Wingers ..... didn't see anyone else do it.

[kgun12]

There are a lot of tax advantages to play in Florida and not in New York!

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/11/state-tax-departments-set-their-sights-on-pro-athletes-earnings-.html

[Historian]

There are a lot of tax advantages to play in Florida and not in New York!

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/11/state-tax-departments-set-their-sights-on-pro-athletes-earnings-.html

Yea, and baseball players whine about playing in Toronto, as do hockey players about any Canadian team as well.

This is a non-issue for teams that are within reach of winning it all. (no matter what league)

Poyer's fascination with the fish has more to do with his dip**** wife's fascination with South Beach, as opposed to tax policy.

[kgun12]

Yea, and baseball players whine about playing in Toronto, as do hockey players about any Canadian team as well.

This is a non-issue for teams that are within reach of winning it all. (no matter what league)

Poyer's fascination with the fish has more to do with his dip**** wife's fascination with South Beach, as opposed to tax policy.

I’m not sure about all this, when I moved from New York to Michigan in 2013 to be closer to my wife’s mother who needed help, I went at the same pay and gained a 13% pay increase just by moving. Think of the money an athlete can save by living in a state without a state income tax versus NY. Yes they pay taxes when in other states but 13% from NY to Michigan and oh BTW Michigan had the one of the highest taxes on gas in the country. My property taxes alone went from $6,800 a year to $2,300 a year and that included my garbage service.

You might be correct for a hungry younger player looking to win a championship, but when you’re at the end of your career and you have a crazy money grubbing wife it surly matters! Besides someone told him how much more he would make playing in Florida or NY. He did just pull that statement out of the sky.

[kgun12]

State taxes relative to player's contracts and the cities they may play in is relevant to the topic and this forum.

Attempting to steer the conversation toward a political slant with a term like 'right wingers' is not, and more appropriate for a different forum.

Most fans, regardless of their political leanings, are able to avoid the urge to create more divisiveness and discuss the topic within the appropriate context.

He can help himself, when he can’t defend his position or doesn’t like what is said he name calls! Sad really.

[Historian]

I’m not sure about all this, when I moved from New York to Michigan in 2013 to be closer to my wife’s mother who needed help, I went at the same pay and gained a 13% pay increase just by moving. Think of the money an athlete can save by living in a state without a state income tax versus NY. Yes they pay taxes when in other states but 13% from NY to Michigan and oh BTW Michigan had the one of the highest taxes on gas in the country. My property taxes alone went from $6,800 a year to $2,300 a year and that included my garbage service.

You might be correct for a hungry younger player looking to win a championship, but when you’re at the end of your career and you have a crazy money grubbing wife it surly matters! Besides someone told him how much more he would make playing in Florida or NY. He did just pull that statement out of the sky.

Not talking about some working stiff, we're talking about a multi millionaire who doesn't even know how to spend what he already has.

[kgun12]

Not talking about some working stiff, we're talking about a multi millionaire who doesn't even know how to spend what he already has.

I get it, but you can’t tell me they don’t consider taxes, weather and things to do? It’s mostly about the money, that’s why you can get a FA to go from Buffalo, Philadelphia, or Kansas City to places like Houston or Chicago. Why else would you not sign for less to stay with a championship caliber team versus a team several years away?

Or put it this way, stay in Buffalo and have to be dug out to get to the airport to play a home game in Detroit, spending Christmas Eve in Chicago because you can’t get in to Buffalo due to snow, HIGH taxes and drive two hours to have big city fun, or live in Miami, which BTW is a playoff team.

[swiper]

The Commanders also released veteran safety Bobby McCain, whose presence was made redundant by the emergence of Darrick Forrest. McCain's release saves roughly $2.32 million in salary cap space.

McCain, 29, had four interceptions in 34 games over two seasons with Washington but none in 2022 for a defense that often played with three safeties on the field at once.

Report: Commanders releasing safety McCain (https://www.tsn.ca/nfl/washington-commanders-releasing-safety-bobby-mccain-1.1924466)

[swiper]

The Bills snatched Poyer and Hyde away in FA when they were still underrated. There’s a possibility to do it again.

Giants S Julian Love
Eagles S Marcus Epps or Gardner-Johnson
Cowboys S Donovan Wilson
Detroit S Deshon Elliot.

there’s a few guys to look at that might not cost a ton

Hyde wasn't underrated when we signed him. Not whatsoever.

[Woodman]

Hyde wasn't underrated when we signed him. Not whatsoever.
I thought everybody had heard of him as well.

[notacon]

State taxes relative to player's contracts and the cities they may play in is relevant to the topic and this forum.


Attempting to steer the conversation toward a political slant with a term like 'right wingers' is not, and more appropriate for a different forum.

Most fans, regardless of their political leanings, are able to avoid the urge to create more divisiveness and discuss the topic within the appropriate context.

Jesus. Perfect example of the bias with some of the Admin's here.


The post that you should have cited for "the urge to create more divisiveness and discuss the topic within the appropriate context.” was not mine....

Your blatant hypocrisy, clear bias and selective outrage is apparent when you should have written this....


'Attempting to steer the conversation toward a political slant with a term like ‘liberal BS' is not, and more appropriate for a different forum.’....in response to THIS post that was the one that "Attempting to steer the conversation toward a political slant” and "more appropriate for a different forum"



Being in New York state sucks for everyone. Guys in Buffalo are stuck paying for all the liberal BS with no way to monetize anything like players in larger metropolitan statistical areas. Edmunds is singing the same tune. They want out of the Bills and it's bigger than the best contract they can sign. I think they also are saying they are tired of the cluster-**** with their actions.


Why the obvious bias????? That was a rhetorical question....I know why.