Sherman blames Allen for Lamar situation

[YardRat]

https://sports.yahoo.com/richard-sherman-blames-patrick-mahomes-josh-allen-for-lamar-jacksons-stalled-contract-talks-213950021.html


Sherman says Mahomes and Allen not asking for fully guaranteed deals when they signed their contract extensions pushed the league backward after Kirk Cousins (https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/25812/)' record-setting fully guaranteed deal with the Minnesota Vikings (https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/minnesota/) in 2018.

[OpIv37]

Sherman is an idiot.

Both Allen and Mahomes got more guaranteed money than what Cousins got. And, guaranteeing $84 mil is a lot different than guaranteeing $258 mil or $450 mil.

[Cali512]

so putting your team first is now a bad thing and being selfish isnt?

[Albany,n.y.]

When you expect to play through your contract, guarantees don't really mean as much to you as someone who might not make it to the end of the contract.

[Crisis]

We comparing fully guaranteed 3 years to 6 and 10? Dumbass.

Not to mention UFA negotiations vs extending.

[Forward_Lateral]

Richard Sherman has the IQ of a shoe

[TacklingDummy]

Josh will get more guaranteed money when he opts out in 2026.

[Forward_Lateral]

Josh will get more guaranteed money when he opts out in 2026.

They will redo his deal before then

[Goobylal]

Poor Lamar. Keep sitting out looking for that fully guaranteed contract, and cost yourself tens of millions more.

[jamze132]

The NFL and the NFLPA are a mess in regards to player “contracts”. I’d like to see all contracts fully guaranteed.

[YardRat]

Sherman is supposed to be an intelligent person, sometimes he doesn't sound like it. I think there was a reference a few weeks ago to a 3yr, $130+mil fully guaranteed deal that the Ravens offered Jackson (which would be closer to Cousins, admittedly I didn't do the math to see if the salary inflation actually factor lined up) and Lamar laughed at it. Plus Watson got his deal after Mahomes and Allen, and they didn't screw him up.

[Novacane]

Not every player is a greedy every last dollar I can get moron. A few actually care about winning.

[Night Train]

Having one player take up 15%-25% of the team cap is fine to individual players with opinions.

Yet it's a team sport and borderline talent making the minimum is a growing sector in the NFL due to the unbalanced cap. If your QB goes down, you're basically done.

So owners seeing that as a bad business plan is wrong how exactly ? Let the player$ and agent$ cry.

[DraftBoy]

Not every player is a greedy every last dollar I can get moron. A few actually care about winning.

They should be. Maximize all the earnings you can get given how short the average career is.

[Novacane]

They should be. Maximize all the earnings you can get given how short the average career is.



So the ones who would rather take less to have a legit chance to win are dumb?

[YardRat]

They should be. Maximize all the earnings you can get given how short the average career is.

That's not an entirely true narrative. "Maximizing earnings" within that narrow mindset ignores other potential lucrative revenue streams that might be available for 'winners'.

[DraftBoy]

So the ones who would rather take less to have a legit chance to win are dumb?

Not going to call somebody dumb, especially when I don’t know their circumstances. But if it’s a decision between taking care of my family for generations to come or winning more games then that’s not a tough decision to make.

We’re asking players to literally take years off their lives for our entertainment and then we want to act all pissy because they want more money and ruin our fun? Count me out on that entire set of fake outrage.

[DraftBoy]

That's not an entirely true narrative. "Maximizing earnings" within that narrow mindset ignores other potential lucrative revenue streams that might be available for 'winners'.

When you can quantify that and show an actual cost benefit analysis then you have a point.

[notacon]

The NFL and the NFLPA are a mess in regards to player “contracts”. I’d like to see all contracts fully guaranteed.

That would effectively ruin the NFL. It probably could not survive being forced to pay the years long contacts for players that are not good enough to stay on the team or contribute to the quality of the team. It would cause league wide mediocrity instead of merit based employment.

At the least it would push down salaries for all players.

[notacon]

Sherman is an idiot.

Both Allen and Mahomes got more guaranteed money than what Cousins got. And, guaranteeing $84 mil is a lot different than guaranteeing $258 mil or $450 mil.

What is forgotten is that any “fully guaranteed” contract, that dollar amount that is “fully guaranteed” has to be deposited, in cash, in an escrow account.

Cousins did use the leverage to get a “fully guaranteed” contract. And that experience has made owners very hesitant to go down that perilous path.

Kirk Cousins is a good QB, but he’s simply not on the level of the elite QB’s like Brady (he never had a multi-year several hundred million dollar “fully guaranteed” contract), Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and on and on.

The Vikings handcuffed themselves with their “fully guaranteed” contract for an above average but by no means “elite” QB. The Athletic, in their annual “QB Tier (https://theathletic.com/3443022/2022/07/25/nfl-best-quarterbacks-tiers/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=4658383)” ranking had him accurately a “Tier 3” QB ranked #15 before the 2022 season.

The Browns (out of desperation and stupidity) made a HUGE mistake in their contract with Watson. It will probably come back to bite them in the ass. (It probably has already).

No NFL team should be stupid enough to give in to Lamar Jackson’s unrealistic demands. If he had a professional agent, he/she would have set him straight some time ago.

A NFL player acting as his own agent has a fool as a client. Jackson is a fool.

[notacon]

Not every player is a greedy every last dollar I can get moron. A few actually care about winning.
I have no problem with every NFL player getting “every last dollar" he can for a very short career.

They are neither “greedy” or “morons”.

I would do exactly the same if I were in their position, and I suspect that everyone here would too.

Winning a Super Bowl is a great achievement, but, the bonus money is only $157,000 per player...and a nice ring. And bragging rights.

Bragging rights do not pay for your kids college education, or pay for the years of health issues many players have for the rest of their lives after football. Yeah, caring about “winning” and doing so for “the team” is great and all. But not at the price of leaving millions on the table when the average career in the NFL is only three years.

Besides the chance that on any play you can be crippled for life, or worse.

[notacon]

That's not an entirely true narrative. "Maximizing earnings" within that narrow mindset ignores other potential lucrative revenue streams that might be available for 'winners'.

Mainly for a tiny handful of superstars. The key word here is “potential”.

A lot of good “potential lucrative revenue streams” when your career is over after four five years or, worse yet, you are suffering from chronic traumatic encephalopathy that causes increased risk for depression, confusion, aggression and other mental health conditions.

[Goobylal]

What is forgotten is that any “fully guaranteed” contract, that dollar amount that is “fully guaranteed” has to be deposited, in cash, in an escrow account.

Cousins did use the leverage to get a “fully guaranteed” contract. And that experience has made owners very hesitant to go down that perilous path.

Kirk Cousins is a good QB, but he’s simply not on the level of the elite QB’s like Brady (he never had a multi-year several hundred million dollar “fully guaranteed” contract), Rodgers, Mahomes, Allen, Burrow and on and on.

The Vikings handcuffed themselves with their “fully guaranteed” contract for an above average but by no means “elite” QB. The Athletic, in their annual “QB Tier (https://theathletic.com/3443022/2022/07/25/nfl-best-quarterbacks-tiers/?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=4658383)” ranking had him accurately a “Tier 3” QB ranked #15 before the 2022 season.

The Browns (out of desperation and stupidity) made a HUGE mistake in their contract with Watson. It will probably come back to bite them in the ass. (It probably has already).

No NFL team should be stupid enough to give in to Lamar Jackson’s unrealistic demands. If he had a professional agent, he/she would have set him straight some time ago.

A NFL player acting as his own agent has a fool as a client. Jackson is a fool.

An agent wouldn't have made a difference and probably would have fired him as a client. Once he saw Watson get that contract, that's all he wanted. And in the process he'll end up costing himself $50+M which he will never get back.

[Typ0]

The numbers all changed when Covid changed the cap situation on every team in the league. That money has to come from somewhere and ends up being projected in the future pretty heavily when the situation hits immediately.

[Ingtar33]

The NFL and the NFLPA are a mess in regards to player “contracts”. I’d like to see all contracts fully guaranteed.

you can't have fully guaranteed contracts in a league with a hard cap. the players union has to figure out how to bust up the owners unity on this one and get the salary cap changed to a soft cap. once that happens the league will be much more amiable to guaranteed contracts.


An agent wouldn't have made a difference and probably would have fired him as a client. Once he saw Watson get that contract, that's all he wanted. And in the process he'll end up costing himself $50+M which he will never get back.

actually i think his situation is fascinating. if i were the redskins or falcons or jets, i'd be all over lamar regardless his demands. imagine if it was the drought era bills. we'd be going nuts if lamar was out there like the ravens are dangling him. the fact none of those teams are going for him just underlines how unified the league owners are on this one. in fact i still can't wrap my mind around what the moronic jets are doing... chasing rogers when lamar is dangling out there? insane.

[Goobylal]

you can't have fully guaranteed contracts in a league with a hard cap. the players union has to figure out how to bust up the owners unity on this one and get the salary cap changed to a soft cap. once that happens the league will be much more amiable to guaranteed contracts.

Never going to happen. A soft cap just means the owners end up spending more money.


actually i think his situation is fascinating. if i were the redskins or falcons or jets, i'd be all over lamar regardless his demands. imagine if it was the drought era bills. we'd be going nuts if lamar was out there like the ravens are dangling him. the fact none of those teams are going for him just underlines how unified the league owners are on this one. in fact i still can't wrap my mind around what the moronic jets are doing... chasing rogers when lamar is dangling out there? insane.

No one wants Lamar at his current demands. Especially since he's missed the last 5 games and first playoff game (if the team had made the playoffs in 2021) the past 2 seasons.

[DraftBoy]

Never going to happen. A soft cap just means the owners end up spending more money.



No one wants Lamar at his current demands. Especially since he's missed the last 5 games and first playoff game (if the team had made the playoffs in 2021) the past 2 seasons.

You don’t know if that’s true. What we do know is that nobody wants him at the current compensation package that includes losing two first round picks.

[YardRat]

When you can quantify that and show an actual cost benefit analysis then you have a point.

Simply comparing endorsement examples of Mahomes vs Cousins and Watson should be sufficient.

[DraftBoy]

Simply comparing endorsement examples of Mahomes vs Cousins and Watson should be sufficient.

Then feel free to do so.

[YardRat]

"Forbes estimated that Mahomes earned $20 million in endorsements in 2022, trailing only Brady in off-field earnings."


"According to speculations, Cousins earns an estimated $2.5 million annually from endorsements alone. "


"Watson reportedly makes an estimated $8 million annually just from endorsement deals."

[DraftBoy]

"Forbes estimated that Mahomes earned $20 million in endorsements in 2022, trailing only Brady in off-field earnings."


"According to speculations, Cousins earns an estimated $2.5 million annually from endorsements alone. "


"Watson reportedly makes an estimated $8 million annually just from endorsement deals."

Estimates are just guesses not quantied numbers that can be used in a cost benefit analysis. Try again.

[YardRat]

They are sufficient for the discussion. If you want to claim Mahomes doesn't make more annually in endorsements than Cousins and Watson, have at it.

[DraftBoy]

They are sufficient for the discussion. If you want to claim Mahomes doesn't make more annually in endorsements than Cousins and Watson, have at it.

Negative, it is in no way sufficient. Since I made no claim either way, it’s not something I can have at.

[Goobylal]

You don’t know if that’s true. What we do know is that nobody wants him at the current compensation package that includes losing two first round picks.

No one is giving a 5-year $50M+/year fully guaranteed deal for a guy who who hasn't been able to finish the last 2 seasons and whose game is predicated on running, which opens him up to injury. The 2-1st rounders just makes it a no-brainer.

[notacon]

An agent wouldn't have made a difference and probably would have fired him as a client. Once he saw Watson get that contract, that's all he wanted. And in the process he'll end up costing himself $50+M which he will never get back.

Probably correct. No agent wants a fool for a client.

Jackson is a special talent, but he is not a Tier One elite QB. Probably never will be. His greatest asset is his running ability, not this ability to read defenses and win a game from the pocket.

He has shown himself to be injury prone and he shrinks when the game is on the line in the playoffs. The most the Ravens have scored in a playoff game since Jackson has been on the team was only 20 points, in 2020 vs Tennessee in his only playoff win vs three losses.

He passed for only 179 yard that game vs running for 136. His biggest plays of the game were running plays. A 48 yard (amazing) run for a TD to tie it at 10 each late in the second half, and a 23 yard run on 3rd & 2 from the Titans 44 yard line to set up a go ahead TD by Dobbins in the 3rd Q.

The three losses Baltimore scored only 17, 12 & 3 points (the 3 points was vs the Bills).

They missed the playoffs in 2021 became he could not stay on the field. And he missed the end to the 2022 season too. Huntley had that game vs Cincy won until the ill timed fumble on the goal line that instead of going ahead 24-17, they fell behind by the same score which was the final score of the game.

It’s obvious that no team wants to deal with his crap and have to give up two first round picks for the right to get into a contract debacle fight with an amateur agent.

Maybe that will change. I sure would not want him on my team.

[DraftBoy]

No one is giving a 5-year $50M+/year fully guaranteed deal for a guy who who hasn't been able to finish the last 2 seasons and whose game is predicated on running, which opens him up to injury. The 2-1st rounders just makes it a no-brainer.

I don’t think it’s likely either, but we simply don’t know that for a fact yet because the full compensation is beyond just his contract.

[Historian]

I would like to see the Starting quarterback's salary excluded from the cap.

[Forward_Lateral]

I would like to see the Starting quarterback's salary excluded from the cap.

This is probably the smartest thing I've read on this forum, ever.

[notacon]

I would like to see the Starting quarterback's salary excluded from the cap.

Really?!?!?

The realistic result (and it has to be said that this idea would never in a million years be enacted) would be small market teams like the Bills NEVER having a good QB.

The most profitable and cash rich teams (Dallas & NE for example) would gobble up every elite QB. It would result in exactly what the NFL has tried to avoid at all costs....a two tiered league with a few dynasties and a bunch of also-rans.

[Typ0]

I would like to see the Starting quarterback's salary excluded from the cap.

That would defeat the purpose of the cap might as well just do away with it!

- - - Updated - - -


I don’t think it’s likely either, but we simply don’t know that for a fact yet because the full compensation is beyond just his contract.

What else? Endorsements? Those aren't relevant in this discussion about what gets him to play for a team.

[Forward_Lateral]

Lamar scored a 13 on the wonderlic.

He should not be negotiating his own contract. He can barely tie his own shoes.

[Goobylal]

You don’t know if that’s true. What we do know is that nobody wants him at the current compensation package that includes losing two first round picks.

https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/status/1640450924618592256?s=20

[notacon]

https://twitter.com/HolderStephen/status/1640450924618592256?s=20

I know anything is possible....but it sure looks like NO team wants to give Jackson a full guaranteed contract. It would be dumb to do so....just like it was dumb for Cleveland to kiss Watson’s as.

[Goobylal]

I know anything is possible....but it sure looks like NO team wants to give Jackson a full guaranteed contract. It would be dumb to do so....just like it was dumb for Cleveland to kiss Watson’s as.

No team wants to give him the contract he's demanding. If they did, the 2-1sts would be worth it since they'd probably be late 1sts.

[Bill Cody]

No team wants to give him the contract he's demanding. If they did, the 2-1sts would be worth it since they'd probably be late 1sts.

I agree that's probably true. But the situation may be changing. Lamar is under the control of the Ravens. He can either sign his tag or sit and not get paid assuming he does not back off his prior contract demands. He has clearly scared teams off by his early talk about wanting to exceed Watson's guaranteed deal.

That was not going to happen for a guy that has trouble staying on the field. This is where Lamar NEEDS the services of an agent. The agent could discreetly call teams and let them know Lamar is no longer demanding Watson money. If this was a 5 year deal I think Lamar could save face and either resign with the Ravens or sign with the dozen or so teams that could use his services. The two 1st round picks is not the problem here. And the annual compensation would be north of 40m. To me that's the only good way out for Lamar.

[Goobylal]

I agree that's probably true. But the situation may be changing. Lamar is under the control of the Ravens. He can either sign his tag or sit and not get paid assuming he does not back off his prior contract demands. He has clearly scared teams off by his early talk about wanting to exceed Watson's guaranteed deal.

That was not going to happen for a guy that has trouble staying on the field. This is where Lamar NEEDS the services of an agent. The agent could discreetly call teams and let them know Lamar is no longer demanding Watson money. If this was a 5 year deal I think Lamar could save face and either resign with the Ravens or sign with the dozen or so teams that could use his services. The two 1st round picks is not the problem here. And the annual compensation would be north of 40m. To me that's the only good way out for Lamar.

He should have known awhile ago that by missing the last 1/3 of the season and into the playoffs the past 2 years that the Ravens wouldn't want to give him a huge long-term fully-guaranteed contract. But he doesn't, or at least didn't, seem to care/think it was an issue. And when they didn't, he took offense and demanded to be traded. The only thing that might have changed is after being allowed to shop his wares, he's finding out that no one else wants to pay him either. So he's stuck playing under the franchise tag because they're not going to be able to trade him and they're not giving him the contract he wants. And if he sits out, it's just tens of millions more he's costing himself by being foolish.

[Novacane]

Lamar scored a 13 on the wonderlic.

He should not be negotiating his own contract. He can barely tie his own shoes.



He's not. His mommy is.

[Mace]

Lamar has no one to blame for the Lamar Situation besides Lamar. It's that simple.

[Ingtar33]

i dont get the hate lamar is getting, he's a good guy and he won an mvp, an award he deserved. he's been singlehandedly carrying an awful ravens team by himself. he deserves a 40-50mil per year deal.

[DraftBoy]

i dont get the hate lamar is getting, he's a good guy and he won an mvp, an award he deserved. he's been singlehandedly carrying an awful ravens team by himself. he deserves a 40-50mil per year deal.

It's not hard to get. He's a star player who has been open about his contract displeasure which gets the whole "shut your mouth and play (for my own entertainment)" crowd up in their feelings. Then with his mother acting as his agent he has an entire subset of agents and advisors that leak stories to the press to try and trash his intelligence. We don't even need to get into the motivation behind the people who think making fun of his wonderlic score or the way he speaks is somehow appropriate and doesn't imply other feelings.

Jackson is a star QB and deserves to be paid as one. It's that simple.

But the majority of what you're going to hear at the same old tired voices that just say "shut up and play".

[Historian]

I never really thought very much of his ability as a qb.

HOWEVER, it seems to me that If this is the guy you thought would put you over the top a few years back, why are you, as an organization, taking such a hard line stance with him?

Franchise quarterbacks don't grow on trees.

See: Buffalo Bills, 2004-2017

[DraftBoy]

I never really thought very much of his ability as a qb.

HOWEVER, it seems to me that If this is the guy you thought would put you over the top a few years back, why are you, as an organization, taking such a hard line stance with him?

Franchise quarterbacks don't grow on trees.

See: Buffalo Bills, 2004-2017

Ravens still feel burned over that Flacco deal and yearn for the old days where they were able to win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

[Night Train]

Lamar scored a 13 on the wonderlic.

He should not be negotiating his own contract. He can barely tie his own shoes.

Dan Marino could tie 1 shoe. He scored a 15. Same score as Jim Kelly.

Most QB's don't have the IQ of Fitz. This just in...

Yes, he needs an agent..

[swiper]

This is probably the smartest thing I've read on this forum, ever.

I, too, have said this for years. But the issue with this is that QB pay rates would rise even quicker than they already are because you could not legally cap one person's ability to sell himself in the free market.

[swiper]

Ravens still feel burned over that Flacco deal and yearn for the old days where they were able to win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

You have taken a unique way of distilling the Ravens view on the QB position. They rode (or will ride) Lamar Jackson for as long as they could/can on the current contract, then cut the cord.

The issue with Jackson will come down to one simple thing: he's asking for too much money. It's all boiled down to that here:

Lamar Jackson pushes back on the narrative that he’s an injury risk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/03/28/lamar-jackson-pushes-back-on-the-narrative-that-hes-an-injury-risk/)

It has been said, or rather asked, that "was the Deshaun Watson contract an outlier or the new norm for QB contracts?" IF Lamar Jackson gets what he is asking for, then the answer to that question is the latter. The NFL owners will each, individually fight against it. And as mentioned, Jackson will cry collusion, and then he'll be forced to go back to the Ravens for this year. What team in their right mind will pay one player that percentage of their entire roster? It doesn't make sense for team success.

[Night Train]

He should talk to Kirk Cousins, who played under the tag for 2 years .

It's OK to make 32 Mil for 1 year while awaiting your next deal.

Doesn't look like he has any other options until next year. Coaches all saying they are going in other directions with draft and cap concerns.

Does he actually need an agent now to tell him to sign the tag and take the $$ ??

[Forward_Lateral]

Dan Marino could tie 1 shoe. He scored a 15. Same score as Jim Kelly.

Most QB's don't have the IQ of Fitz. This just in...

Yes, he needs an agent..

Those guys didn't try to negotiate their own contracts

- - - Updated - - -


I, too, have said this for years. But the issue with this is that QB pay rates would rise even quicker than they already are because you could not legally cap one person's ability to sell himself in the free market.

What about a max contract like the NBA?

[Goobylal]

It's not hard to get. He's a star player who has been open about his contract displeasure which gets the whole "shut your mouth and play (for my own entertainment)" crowd up in their feelings. Then with his mother acting as his agent he has an entire subset of agents and advisors that leak stories to the press to try and trash his intelligence. We don't even need to get into the motivation behind the people who think making fun of his wonderlic score or the way he speaks is somehow appropriate and doesn't imply other feelings.

Jackson is a star QB and deserves to be paid as one. It's that simple.

But the majority of what you're going to hear at the same old tired voices that just say "shut up and play".

That's not it, at least for me. He deserves to be paid what other franchise QBs are getting. Should he demand a fully-guaranteed deal? No. He can ask but when it's clear no one is offering one, he should be more reasonable. So he'll rightfully be criticized, especially when it's costing him $40-50M that he'll never get back.

[notacon]

It's not hard to get. He's a star player who has been open about his contract displeasure which gets the whole "shut your mouth and play (for my own entertainment)" crowd up in their feelings. Then with his mother acting as his agent he has an entire subset of agents and advisors that leak stories to the press to try and trash his intelligence. We don't even need to get into the motivation behind the people who think making fun of his wonderlic score or the way he speaks is somehow appropriate and doesn't imply other feelings.

Jackson is a star QB and deserves to be paid as one. It's that simple.

But the majority of what you're going to hear at the same old tired voices that just say "shut up and play".

I don’t think that’s the case at all and pretty unfair.

It’s more accurate that the "majority of what you're going to hear” is that he should “shut up and get an agent”.

If he had a good agent, none of this would be happening, at least in public. Plus, I do not see anyone (here or in the press) saying that this is not true....”Jackson is a star QB and deserves to be paid as one”.

Sure looks like you are dishing up a straw man argument.

The issue is and always has been, that he wants a fully guaranteed contract. That is on a whole other solar system than thinking that he’s NOT “ a star QB and deserves to be paid as one”.


Maybe you need to re-read the posts here. I don’t see anyone saying (or even suggesting) “shut up and play” or that he does not deserve to get paid as a “star QB” should.

[Bill Cody]

He should talk to Kirk Cousins, who played under the tag for 2 years .

It's OK to make 32 Mil for 1 year while awaiting your next deal.

Doesn't look like he has any other options until next year. Coaches all saying they are going in other directions with draft and cap concerns.

Does he actually need an agent now to tell him to sign the tag and take the $$ ??

He doesn't need an agent to tell him to sign the tag. But there's no hurry for him to do that either. And the point of the agent has nothing to do with the tag. The agent can get him out from under the hole he's dug for himself. There are definitely teams willing to give Lamar a fair contract. Just not a 10 year fully guaranteed deal. That's fantasy.

[Ingtar33]

You can't tell me Lamar wouldn't take a 40-50mil dollar a year contract that's not fully guaranteed. from what lamar is implying the ravens aren't even getting close to those numbers. ignore the guaranteed part.


It's not hard to get. He's a star player who has been open about his contract displeasure which gets the whole "shut your mouth and play (for my own entertainment)" crowd up in their feelings. Then with his mother acting as his agent he has an entire subset of agents and advisors that leak stories to the press to try and trash his intelligence. We don't even need to get into the motivation behind the people who think making fun of his wonderlic score or the way he speaks is somehow appropriate and doesn't imply other feelings.

Jackson is a star QB and deserves to be paid as one. It's that simple.

But the majority of what you're going to hear at the same old tired voices that just say "shut up and play".

this is probably true. The wonderlick is a worthless test anyway... here

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2370983-nfl-wonderlic-test-highest-scores-in-history-and-how-to-take-sample-test#:~:text=Hall%20of%20Fame%20quarterbacks%20Dan,NFL%20average%20for%20a%20quarterback.

Not a single variable tested had a correlation above .2 (or below -.2), suggesting a minimal or very weak correlation between quarterbacks’ Wonderlic scores and the other variables at best.

Furthermore, the results of the regressions we ran tell a similar story. After individually regressing QBR, Sack Percentage, Adjusted Net Yards Per Attempt, Passer Rating, and Interception Rate Per Attempt on the corresponding Wonderlic scores, we did not find a single relationship that proved to be statistically significant at the 5% level, and most are not even close. That is, a quarterback’s score on the Wonderlic Test does not serve as a significant predictor for any of the metrics we analyzed.

[Bill Cody]

Ravens still feel burned over that Flacco deal and yearn for the old days where they were able to win a Super Bowl with Trent Dilfer.

Flacco won them a Super Bowl even if it was right before the big contract. I doubt they feel that burned. It would be like Deshaun Watson bringing a championship to Cleveland this year and then sucking for the rest of the 10 years. Cleveland would take that right now.

Baltimore knows Jackson is good. They've made him what they think is a fair offer. Lamar doesn't agree. That happens in negotiations all the time. But it does appear the rest of the league isn't anxious to meet Lamar's price either. Is that collusion? Quite possibly. But it's also a reflection of the injury risk with this player.

[Ingtar33]

Flacco won them a Super Bowl even if it was right before the big contract. I doubt they feel that burned. It would be like Deshaun Watson bringing a championship to Cleveland this year and then sucking for the rest of the 10 years. Cleveland would take that right now.

Baltimore knows Jackson is good. They've made him what they think is a fair offer. Lamar doesn't agree. That happens in negotiations all the time. But it does appear the rest of the league isn't anxious to meet Lamar's price either. Is that collusion? Quite possibly. But it's also a reflection of the injury risk with this player.

according to jackson that deal "they think is good" was like Derick Carr numbers. which should be an insult to jackson.

[Goobylal]

according to jackson that deal "they think is good" was like Derick Carr numbers. which should be an insult to jackson.

I heard they offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed. I also heard they recently offered him a 3-year $150M guaranteed deal and he turned it down. I don't know what they truly have offered him, but I'd be surprised if wasn't in the $40M range. But again, not fully guaranteed. If they're offering Carr money, that's dumb.

[Ingtar33]

I heard they offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed. I also heard they recently offered him a 3-year $150M guaranteed deal and he turned it down. I don't know what they truly have offered him, but I'd be surprised if wasn't in the $40M range. But again, not fully guaranteed. If they're offering Carr money, that's dumb.

he had an angry tweet a few weeks ago when someone was talking about supposedly the huge contracts he was turning down, and he replied with something like 22mil a year? implying the last ravens contract offered was a 22mil / year contract. i could be remembering the tweet wrong. but he was making the point that his team doesn't leak and any leak reports are reporting is coming from the ravens. which is true. since it's his mom and she doesn't talk to the press.

[YardRat]

Not having the QB contract count toward the cap is a horrible, horrible idea.

Having a max salary is much better, but good luck getting that from the NFLPA.

[Typ0]

All the players have themselves over valued in free agency this year and are asserting themselves on the salaries for big picture reasons. A big labor battle is playing out where employers are trying to use the current marketplace to effect every contract that is signed in the future. This could get ugly.

[Goobylal]

he had an angry tweet a few weeks ago when someone was talking about supposedly the huge contracts he was turning down, and he replied with something like 22mil a year? implying the last ravens contract offered was a 22mil / year contract. i could be remembering the tweet wrong. but he was making the point that his team doesn't leak and any leak reports are reporting is coming from the ravens. which is true. since it's his mom and she doesn't talk to the press.

There is no chance the Ravens offered him just $22M/year. I'd even say offering him less than double that number (i.e. $44M) is unlikely as well.

[swiper]

What about a max contract like the NBA?

As YardRat said, you'd have to get the union to agree with that and that won't happen.

[Saratoga Slim]

What else? Endorsements? Those aren't relevant in this discussion about what gets him to play for a team.

But they are relevant from the perspective of how much sympathy we need to have for the “I need to take care of my family” argument.

[Bill Cody]

Not having the QB contract count toward the cap is a horrible, horrible idea.

Having a max salary is much better, but good luck getting that from the NFLPA.

Well to be fair that's a hard sell when the Commissioner just signed a new contract extension at some obscene number that I can only speculate about- 50m a year? 60m?

[Bill Cody]

according to jackson that deal "they think is good" was like Derick Carr numbers. which should be an insult to jackson.

Hard to know what was offered. Jackson didn't do himself any favors either by not playing in the playoff game last year when by all reports he could have but didn't for contract reasons. Availability is a big part of how salaries get figured. Look at the contract Jimmy Garapolo got. 22m a year? He's not in Jackson's league but he's a better player than Carr- when he's on the field.

[notacon]

I heard they offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed. I also heard they recently offered him a 3-year $150M guaranteed deal and he turned it down. I don't know what they truly have offered him, but I'd be surprised if wasn't in the $40M range. But again, not fully guaranteed. If they're offering Carr money, that's dumb.

Of course the big issue is no one (outside Lamar and Baltimore front office) knows exactly what was offered and when.

But, it makes a ton of sense and sounds very credible that Baltimore "offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed.”. The biggest issue is and always has been Jackson the agent having a fool for a client...Jackson the player.

Here is a fascinating article from SI today on that very subject, that smacks of reality...

Lamar Jackson Is Proving Why Players, Including Himself, Need Agents (http://applewebdata://AFA2C4B5-4122-473F-93DA-37CADED4C30E/Lamar%20Jackson%20Is%20Proving%20Why%20Players,%20Including%20Himself,%20Need%20Agents%20Contract%20negotiations%20are%20about%20more%20than%20just%20value.%20The%20former%20MVP%20would%E2%80%99ve%20benefited%20greatly%20from%20working%20with%20someone%20who%20knows%20the%20intricacies%20of%20the%20market.)
Contract negotiations are about more than just value. The former MVP would’ve benefited greatly from working with someone who knows the intricacies of the market. (http://applewebdata://AFA2C4B5-4122-473F-93DA-37CADED4C30E/Lamar%20Jackson%20Is%20Proving%20Why%20Players,%20Including%20Himself,%20Need%20Agents%20Contract%20negotiations%20are%20about%20more%20than%20just%20value.%20The%20former%20MVP%20would%E2%80%99ve%20benefited%20greatly%20from%20working%20with%20someone%20who%20knows%20the%20intricacies%20of%20the%20market.)



Every time Lamar Jackson advocates for himself, he shows us why he shouldn’t be the one doing it. He is clapping back against critics on Twitter (https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/27/lamar-jackson-message-to-the-ravens-nfl-owners-meetings), demanding respect and fair value and defending his toughness. He could be right on every single point. It doesn’t matter. He is fighting the wrong fights with the wrong people, and all he is really proving is that this is why players hire agents.

Jackson did not have an agent when he declined the Ravens’ contract offers last year (https://www.si.com/nfl/browns/news/report-ravens-lamar-jackson-declined-250-million-wants-full-guaranteed-deal), and he does not have one now, as he sits in franchise-tag purgatory. That is his right, just as it is his right to demand a fully guaranteed contract, or to insist on being the highest-paid player in the NFL if he chooses. (To be clear, there is no indication he has insisted upon that.) Jackson knows the NFL is a chew-’em-up-and-spit-’em-out league, where relationships are transactional, friends fire friends and loyalty is a no-way street. He wants to get the most he can while he can. Completely understandable. Good for him. Saving the 3% agent fee (or even less, if an agent gave him a discount) is just not the way to go about it.

Negotiations are not just about value. They are about positioning, and to be blunt: A lot of the positioning is against the rules. An agent definitely would have advised Jackson on whether to accept the Ravens’ best offers, probably could have squeezed the team to offer more, and almost certainly would have come up with other, creative structures.

An agent could have reminded Jackson of the truth about NFL contracts: A fully guaranteed deal is not the only way to ensure a massive payday. Roster bonuses and trigger clauses give players a strong idea of how much they are sure to make, even if the money is not technically “guaranteed” (and therefore does not have to be put in escrow immediately). Agents commonly negotiate for salaries to become fully guaranteed if a player is on the roster more than a year earlier. When that player is a starting quarterback, with a huge salary and a team designed around him, cutting him becomes extremely difficult. An agent could have shown Jackson that what seemed like a risk was actually a very safe bet on himself.

Snip…

An agent would have spent the last few months—or longer—surreptitiously feeling out the market, and asking important questions: Who are the other suitors? What would they be willing to offer? NFL rules prohibit franchises from talking to agents about players for other teams. But it happens all the time. The Dolphins did this with Tom Brady (https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/08/02/nfl-finds-dolphins-impermissible-contact-with-tom-brady-in-2019-21)and his highly respected agent, Don Yee, while Brady was a Patriot. Miami happened to get caught, and had to forfeit draft picks because of it. But it happened all over the league before and is surely happening right now.

More…

[Goobylal]

Of course the big issue is no one (outside Lamar and Baltimore front office) knows exactly what was offered and when.

But, it makes a ton of sense and sounds very credible that Baltimore "offered him a deal that was bigger than Josh's right after Josh signed his new deal, but not fully guaranteed.”. The biggest issue is and always has been Jackson the agent having a fool for a client...Jackson the player.

Here is a fascinating article from SI today on that very subject, that smacks of reality...

Lamar Jackson Is Proving Why Players, Including Himself, Need Agents (http://applewebdata://AFA2C4B5-4122-473F-93DA-37CADED4C30E/Lamar%20Jackson%20Is%20Proving%20Why%20Players,%20Including%20Himself,%20Need%20Agents%20Contract%20negotiations%20are%20about%20more%20than%20just%20value.%20The%20former%20MVP%20would%E2%80%99ve%20benefited%20greatly%20from%20working%20with%20someone%20who%20knows%20the%20intricacies%20of%20the%20market.)
Contract negotiations are about more than just value. The former MVP would’ve benefited greatly from working with someone who knows the intricacies of the market. (http://applewebdata://AFA2C4B5-4122-473F-93DA-37CADED4C30E/Lamar%20Jackson%20Is%20Proving%20Why%20Players,%20Including%20Himself,%20Need%20Agents%20Contract%20negotiations%20are%20about%20more%20than%20just%20value.%20The%20former%20MVP%20would%E2%80%99ve%20benefited%20greatly%20from%20working%20with%20someone%20who%20knows%20the%20intricacies%20of%20the%20market.)

An agent wouldn't have made any difference. Once he saw what Watson got, it was over.

[Bill Cody]

An agent wouldn't have made any difference. Once he saw what Watson got, it was over.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7vtWB4owdE

[YardRat]

LOL this is funny....



<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Will y&#39;all stop @&#39;n me to tell the Colts to get Lamar. I have no way of making your wish come true. Hell... I&#39;m still trying to get my kids to listen to me... Let alone a organization.</p>&mdash; Reggie Wayne (@ReggieWayne_17) <a href="https://twitter.com/ReggieWayne_17/status/1641454331001176067?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 30, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[notacon]

An agent wouldn't have made any difference. Once he saw what Watson got, it was over.

Probably true.

The article does not say that Lamar ever would get an agent, just showing that he should have, and why.

BTW...I noticed that the link I provided is broken. This should work...

Lamar Jackson Is Proving Why Players, Including Himself, Need Agents (https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/03/30/lamar-jackson-contract-negotiations-need-agents)

[Woodman]

Sherman is an :assclown:

[Woodman]

Sherman is an idiot.

Both Allen and Mahomes got more guaranteed money than what Cousins got. And, guaranteeing $84 mil is a lot different than guaranteeing $258 mil or $450 mil.

Idiot fits and he wears it proudly.