Welcome to Buffalo TE Dalton Kincaid

[TacklingDummy]

Rather of had someone on the line. But welcome.

[Novacane]

Only time will tell. Hopefully we love the pick in a year.

[Clumpy]

:cp:

[TacklingDummy]

Hopefully either Joe Tippman C/G or Jalin Hyatt WR next, please.

[Lexwhat]

The way I look at it….

We had a bunch of players on the Bills last year who couldn’t catch. It really hampered josh Allen and this offense.

Kincaid can catch.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this was the BPA on their board. Dawson knox is a good player, but so is Kincaid.

We need Oline help the rest of the draft.

[Ed]

The way I look at it….

We had a bunch of players on the Bills last year who couldn’t catch. It really hampered josh Allen and this offense.

Kincaid can catch.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this was the BPA on their board. Dawson knox is a good player, but so is Kincaid.

We need Oline help the rest of the draft.
I don't think there's any doubt he was BPA for them.

[Ingtar33]

imho kincaid was the best WR/TE in the draft. and the only one worth a first rounder. i know 4 wrs went before him, but that's because the WR position is overvalued right now. Kincaid is a beast and will give us some tools to make some serious mismatches.

he'll probably see a LOT of time as the no.1 slot "WR" on the team this year.

the only real concern i have about him is his durability. I'd like him to put on some weight.

[The last buffalo fan]

imho kincaid was the best WR/TE in the draft. and the only one worth a first rounder. i know 4 wrs went before him, but that's because the WR position is overvalued right now. Kincaid is a beast and will give us some tools to make some serious mismatches.

he'll probably see a LOT of time as the no.1 slot "WR" on the team this year.

the only real concern i have about him is his durability. I'd like him to put on some weight.

Thanks for your comments, Ingtar. I don't follow a lot college ball mainly because personal time and TV transmition selection in Mexico, they cover here more California, Ohio, Notre Dame and Alabama, so I was wishing to have one of those O players with the Bills, now I'm very excited about OUR guy! :up:

:gobills:

[OpIv37]

The ghost of Donte Whitner strikes again…


The Bills haven’t been able to cover a TE in like 25 years. Beane is desperate to get that guy who no one can cover, like Kelce. Knox is above average but he is not elite. He wants that elite guy.

But, as others have said, we need OL help. If Kincaid is that elite TE that no one can cover, this is a good pick. If not, then OL would have been a better choice. Time will tell.

McD and Beane have resurrected this franchise, and they do see, to know what they are doing. At the same time, one of the reasons for the drought was ignoring the trenches over skill positions. And in the modern NFL, TE is a skill position.

I’m taking a “wait and see” approach on this one. It doesn’t address the pressing needs, but it does have huge potential, and it’s being done by the guys who made us real contenders after nearly 2 decades of mediocrity.

[TacklingDummy]

McD and Beane have resurrected this franchise

The Bills haven’t been able to cover a TE in like 25 years.

1) No, Josh Allen has.

2) Weren’t they good at that last year?

[Novacane]

Any OL at 27 would have been a reach OP. Beane was getting a guy he had a first round grade on or he was trading out of the round.

[Mad Max]

Another reason to like the pick…Skip Bayless is crestfallen hahahahah

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. I WAS ONE PICK AWAY FROM DALTON KINCAID -- AND BUFFALO LEAP-FROGGED MY COWBOYS AND STOLE HIM RIGHT OUT FROM UNDER JERRY&#39;S UPTURNED NOSE. DEVASTATING.</p>&mdash; Skip Bayless (@RealSkipBayless) <a href="https://twitter.com/RealSkipBayless/status/1651786301858017281?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 28, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Oaf]

If not, then OL would have been a better choice. Time will tell.
I would've preferred drafting OL as well, but it turns out "OL" isn't actually a prospect this year. Who on the OL should we've picked?

Hopefully this more or less scratches the WR itch and we get mostly big men the rest of the way.

[YardRat]

Welcome :beers:

Not thrilled, but if they use him as the 3WR/slot guy and he can be a difference-maker it will end up being a good pick. Fingers crossed.

[jamze132]

I love this pick. Kincaid and Knox will make a difference in the passing game.

[Night Train]

I love this pick. Kincaid and Knox will make a difference in the passing game.

NFLN had him #9 overall. The comparisons to Kittle and Kelce make sense if you watch the film. He and Knox should be on the field together. He can take the place of the small slot WR position. Great hands. Outruns safties. Redzone target. Checks a lot of boxes.

[Mike13]

That was a damn good pick for you guys.

[justasportsfan]

Thanks for your comments, Ingtar. I don't follow a lot college ball mainly because personal time and TV transmition selection in Mexico, they cover here more California, Ohio, Notre Dame and Alabama, so I was wishing to have one of those O players with the Bills, now I'm very excited about guy! :up:

:gobills:

Move to Alaska.

[Woodman]

Yes it was! :gobills:

Now lets go trenches.

[justasportsfan]

1) No, Josh Allen has

Someone had to scout , move up to draft him and mold him to the qb they wanted him to be, no?

[Woodman]

We beat Dallas to the prize JMO. :gobills:

[OpIv37]

I would've preferred drafting OL as well, but it turns out "OL" isn't actually a prospect this year. Who on the OL should we've picked?

Hopefully this more or less scratches the WR itch and we get mostly big men the rest of the way.

TBH, I can’t answer that. I pay a lot of attention to the draft if the Bills have a high pick and/or if Notre Dame has one or more players slated to go high. Neither of those things happened this year so I wasn’t engaged.

[sukie]

After the Cincy game was lost my meditation mantra has been (lotus position not happening) closed eyes, purposeful breaths, “Weapons and Fat guys”…. Weapons and Fat guys”

we see the weapon. Not SUPER SIZE ME!

[ghz in pittsburgh]

It was a good pick in my mind but pricy. The Steelers moved up 17 to 14 surrendering their 4th rounder. The Bills moved up 27 to 25 surrendering their 4th rounder....

After the Bills signed McGovern to a 3-year deal, there really isn't an opening O-Line position any more. Dawkins, McGovern, Morse, Bates all are entrenched with big dollars. I don't know any one they drafted can unseat Spencer Brown any time soon.

I feel like this might be a good indication they move into a more McDermott and Dorsey preferred offense. 12 Personnel. Dorsey is familiar with 2 TEs. McDermott wants to run the ball, so he probably wants bigger people on the field, instead of running 3 smurf receivers most of the time. As OP has pointed, how many times we've seen opposing TEs burned us. But it is a big if in terms what this guy can translate his traits to NFL.

[sukie]

:rofl: Smurf receivers.

[sahlensguy]

Amazing at catching in traffic. Don't like how he takes the hits. Sort of a gumby. If he stays healthy, he'll do well. He'll have an instant bond with Allen, with not a single offer out of high school.

[cookie G]

The way I look at it….

We had a bunch of players on the Bills last year who couldn’t catch. It really hampered josh Allen and this offense.

Kincaid can catch.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this was the BPA on their board. Dawson knox is a good player, but so is Kincaid.

We need Oline help the rest of the draft.

That was one of the first things I thought of last night, with a smile. I could picture Beane looking at McD and saying.."look, we need someone who can catch the ball underneath and over the middle". To which McD replied.."can he rush the passer or play zone defense?"

They were 2nd in the league in dropped passes last year and he's a guy that may have the best hands in the draft.

Anyhoo. As others have said, and as Beane emphasized last night, this might not be a true 2 TE set, more of a 1 + 1a or 1b set. Dawson Knox isn't going anywhere.

Big slot
Big possession receiver, whatever you want to call it.

Now, the big issue is whether they can figure out how they can use him and Knox in tandem. Not as a true smash mouth 2 tight end set but more as KC used its TE's last year. If Im Dorsey, I study how Reid used them last year.

This..as other have said, will be the issue.

[Jeff1220]

Looking at how NE used Gronk and Gonzales would probably be closer to the 12 personel McBean are thinking than the typical smash mouth type 12 personel.

[mightysimi]

I placed a bet figuring we would trade down and grab another TE. Either way the first pick was a TE at 13-1!

- - - Updated - - -


Looking at how NE used Gronk and Gonzales would probably be closer to the 12 personel McBean are thinking than the typical smash mouth type 12 personel.

Hernandez?

[notacon]

Despite my early wrongheaded aversion to drafting a TE in the first round, the more I learn about Kincaid the more I really, really like this pick.

Like Ingtar said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263044-Welcome-to-Buffalo-TE-Dalton-Kincaid?p=5019028&viewfull=1#post5019028), "kincaid was the best WR/TE in the draft”. I never gave him much thought because the expectation that he was going to be gone in the top 15, and my own tunnel vision on WR instead of receiver quality and offensive weapon threat.

Several analysis’ were saying the same thing with Bob McGinn in Go Long (https://www.golongtd.com/p/part-1-wrte-hallelujah-its-the-year?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email) quoting an executive in personnel for an AFC team saying…. “Tight end is the strongest position group in the draft” and that “The wide receivers are awful, which is surprising with all the spread offenses and the way people throw it around.”.

And this is what a NFL scout said....“This is totally amazing (TE prospects). You usually have to struggle to find guys, but there are some interesting guys. They’re certainly as good as the Kittle’s and the Kelce’s, and people like that. It’s as good a group as I’ve seen in years.”

With Kincaid being widely touted as the best ball catching and receiving threat of the bunch.

Scout’s Inc (https://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/rankings?year=2023). provides a ranking of 350 draft prospects and grades them with number ranges from 90-100 and down from there. A grade between 90-100 is described as such...

"Rare Prospect

Player demonstrates rare abilities and can create mismatches that have an obvious impact on the game. Is a premier college player that has all the skill to take over a game and play at a championship level. He rates in the top 5 players in the nation at his position and is considered a first round draft prospect.”

They had only 21 players graded between 90-100.

Dalton Kincaid was one of them (91 grade) with an overall ranking irrespective of position of #14.

Only two of the 21 players graded between 90-100 were NOT selected in the first round. Will Levis, QB and fellow TE Michael Meyer.

Twelve players that were not graded “rare prospects” were selected in round one. The lowest graded player in round one was Jack Campbell, who had a grade of 80 and ranked all the way down at #58.

Pretty obvious that he was the biggest reach by Detroit inexplicably taking him with the #18 pick.

Kincaid is probably going to become one of Josh Allen’s favorite targets...the “easy” completion over the middle...to the guy with “elite hands”....something sorely missing from the Bills last year besides Diggs.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

:rofl: Smurf receivers.
Last season, among Bills offensive players, Josh Allen had near 100% snap count averaging 66 snaps a game. The next player is Gabe Davis averaging 62 snaps a game. The next 2 are Knox and Diggs, at 55 and 52 each.

There is a reason Davis is on the field so much. His size means he can be an effective blocker.

I'd imagine in 2024 season --- if Davis leaves --- those 62 snaps per game may very well go to this new guy.

[sukie]

I wish we had a comment from Josh anout his new toy.

[OpIv37]

I placed a bet figuring we would trade down and grab another TE. Either way the first pick was a TE at 13-1!

- - - Updated - - -



Hernandez?

Good catch. Gonzales was a TE, too, but he played for KC and never murdered anyone.

[Gibby 2.0]

IF this pick pans out we have what we haven't had since at least Riemersma and lets be honest McKeller and Metzlaars, namely a big bod who can catch. Also, this is so much a Beane type pick. Big physical player who can do multiple roles. I imagine Josh, Dorsey, and McD said we need two things, a guy who can catch and help with blocking. Beane smiled and said, how about a guy who can do a bit of both.

[notacon]

IF this pick pans out we have what we haven't had since at least Riemersma and lets be honest McKeller and Metzlaars, namely a big bod who can catch. Also, this is so much a Beane type pick. Big physical player who can do multiple roles. I imagine Josh, Dorsey, and McD said we need two things, a guy who can catch and help with blocking. Beane smiled and said, how about a guy who can do a bit of both.

I would opine that IF (and there is little doubt he will) this pick pans out we have what we haven't had EVER.

Yeah, us old farts remember Riemersma, McKeller and Metzelaars and they were fine TE’s. But they were not catch machines.

Metzelaars played for the Bills for 10 seasons. Averaging 30 catches for 292 yards per year.

Riemersma played for the Bills for 6 seasons. Averaging 34 catches for 384 yards per year.

McKeller played for the Bills for 7 seasons (leave out his first year when he played in only one game). Averaging 19 catches for 261 yards per year.

Yeah, it’s a different game today, which is the point. Kincaid is a “tight slot” for the 2020’s, and with Josh Allen as QB he almost assuredly will smash the crap out of every receiving record for Bills’ TE’s.

[TacklingDummy]

Still don’t get this pick when you just paid a TE $50+ million.


Knox has 15 TDs the past 2 years. Not sure another TE was needed.

[TigerJ]

I would opine that IF (and there is little doubt he will) this pick pans out we have what we haven't had EVER.

Yeah, us old farts remember Riemersma, McKeller and Metzelaars and they were fine TE’s. But they were not catch machines.

Metzelaars played for the Bills for 10 seasons. Averaging 30 catches for 292 yards per year.

Riemersma played for the Bills for 6 seasons. Averaging 34 catches for 384 yards per year.

McKeller played for the Bills for 7 seasons (leave out his first year when he played in only one game). Averaging 19 catches for 261 yards per year.

Yeah, it’s a different game today, which is the point. Kincaid is a “tight slot” for the 2020’s, and with Josh Allen as QB he almost assuredly will smash the crap out of every receiving record for Bills’ TE’s.Yeah, a lot of observers figure Kincaid is going to end up lining up in the slot most of the time. It presents a dilemma for defenses. Do they try to cover him with a linebacker or a slot cornerback? It theory, it's a mismatch either way.

[Woodman]

Mismatch every time.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

Listen to what Cosell said around 5:30 mark. It's about how Mahomes has the easy button whereas Allen, especially last year, seemed to find thing difficult.

Beane also said in his presser that Kincaid looked to have that natural ability to see what the defense is doing and adjust to it. That seems to explain his quick rise with only 5 years of football played in his life. If only Josh can get to the same wave length with this kid soon (of course some experience for the kid first ) ... we can imagine, maybe not that far fetched a Kelce-light? After all, Josh did get onto the same page with Beasley when Beas showed up in Buffalo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC2BrgoKBXc

[Woodman]

The Bills are in need of an offense that doesn’t force Josh Allen (https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/30977) to do everything, and the addition of Dalton Kincaid is certainly a step in the right direction. There is no other tight end in this class — and few receivers overall — with Kincaid’s ability to win contested catches, beat both man and zone coverage with timing and spacing, and use pure speed to get things done. The Bills have had all kinds of issues getting past the Chiefs in recent years, and Kincaid reminds me of Travis Kelce (https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/26686), so that’s a positive step.

[TacklingDummy]

The Bills have had all kinds of issues getting past the Chiefs in recent years, and Kincaid reminds me of Travis Kelce (https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/26686), so that’s a positive step.

Because the defense stinks.

[Woodman]

Because the defense stinks.

Let's just say we're helping for improvement.

Or we could just score 40 a game.

[Lexwhat]

Kincaid looks like a polarizing draft pick.

I think it was a great pick. We needed someone like him. Josh should be happy, but so should Diggs.

Beane has been looking for another TE option for several years - considering the old Gronk rumors, and OJ Howard last season.

[Woodman]

Kincaid looks like a polarizing draft pick.

I think it was a great pick. We needed someone like him. Josh should be happy, but so should Diggs.

Beane has been looking for another TE option for several years - considering the old Gronk rumors, and OJ Howard last season.

Couldn't agree more! :cheers:

He reminds some of Zach Ertz!

[notacon]

Because the defense stinks.

So false.

[notacon]

Listen to what Cosell said around 5:30 mark. It's about how Mahomes has the easy button whereas Allen, especially last year, seemed to find thing difficult.

Beane also said in his presser that Kincaid looked to have that natural ability to see what the defense is doing and adjust to it. That seems to explain his quick rise with only 5 years of football played in his life. If only Josh can get to the same wave length with this kid soon (of course some experience for the kid first ) ... we can imagine, maybe not that far fetched a Kelce-light? After all, Josh did get onto the same page with Beasley when Beas showed up in Buffalo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC2BrgoKBXc

Gee....give Josh Allen an easy target (and completion)...what a concept!!! :D:

The fact is that Cole Beasley, in his late prime, gave Josh that option. Take a look at the comparisons of the two top passing targets for Josh’s five seasons....the reception % is the key stat.....


<tbody>
2018
player
targets
rec
yards
rec %
yards avg



Zay Jones
102
56
652
54.90%
11.6



Kelvin Benjaman
62
23
354
37.10%
15.4











2019
John Brown
115
72
1060
62.61%
14.7



Cole Beasley
106
67
778
63.21%
11.6











2020
Stefon Diggs
166
127
1535
76.51%
12.1



Cole Beasely
107
82
967
76.64%
11.8











2021
Stefon Diggs
164
103
1225
62.80%
11.9



Cole Beasley
112
82
693
73.21%
8.5











2022
Stefon Diggs
154
108
1429
70.13%
13.2



Gabe Davis
93
48
836
51.61%
17.4

</tbody>


Beasley, like every player, eventually gets well past their prime. His came after the 2021 season. Never to be seen again.

Kincaid has the potential to be that “easy button” albeit larger and faster.

[Woodman]

Gee....give Josh Allen an easy target (and completion)...what a concept!!! :D:
Kincaid has the potential to be that “easy button” albeit larger and faster.

Absolutely! :gobills:

[TacklingDummy]

So false.

In the last 8 playoff games they gave up 204.

Bengals 27
Miami 31
KC 42
Patriots 17
Colts 24
Ravens 3
KC 38
Houston 22

The defense has in fact stunk.

[YardRat]

I would opine that IF (and there is little doubt he will) this pick pans out we have what we haven't had EVER.

Yeah, us old farts remember Riemersma, McKeller and Metzelaars and they were fine TE’s. But they were not catch machines.

Metzelaars played for the Bills for 10 seasons. Averaging 30 catches for 292 yards per year.

Riemersma played for the Bills for 6 seasons. Averaging 34 catches for 384 yards per year.

McKeller played for the Bills for 7 seasons (leave out his first year when he played in only one game). Averaging 19 catches for 261 yards per year.

Yeah, it’s a different game today, which is the point. Kincaid is a “tight slot” for the 2020’s, and with Josh Allen as QB he almost assuredly will smash the crap out of every receiving record for Bills’ TE’s.

A legitimate old fart remembers Paul Seymour (7), Rueben Gant (18) and Tony Hunter (12)...other first round 'can't miss' tight ends the Bills drafted.

[Novacane]

In the last 8 playoff games they gave up 204.

Bengals 27
Miami 31
KC 42
Patriots 17
Colts 24
Ravens 3
KC 38
Houston 22

The defense has in fact stunk.

Yep. They beat up on bad QB's in the regular season to pile up misleading stats.

[sukie]

A legitimate old fart remembers Paul Seymour (7), Rueben Gant (18) and Tony Hunter (12)...other first round 'can't miss' tight ends the Bills drafted.
And all 3 were stereotypical TEs. This guy isn’t a stereotypical TE.

[swiper]

And all 3 were stereotypical TEs. This guy isn’t a stereotypical TE.

He's 6' 4" 245 lbs. Screams stereotypical TE.

[sukie]

He's 6' 4" 245 lbs. Screams stereotypical TE.
Not with hands like his and route running ability. Even Gant would be jealous

[Woodman]

Bills GM Brandon Beane- For us, it was worth trading a first and a fourth for Dalton Kincaid - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/02/bills-gm-brandon-beane-for-us-it-was-worth-trading-a-first-and-a-fourth-for-dalton-kincaid/)

“I thought there were some teams in the teens (https://twitter.com/SiriusXMNFL/status/1653145737931177991) that would have wanted to add a Dalton Kincaid,” Beane said on SiriusXM NFL Radio.
Beane said that when Kincaid was still on the board at the 20th pick, and a run of four straight wide receivers were drafted after that, it was time to move.
“That’s when we started making calls to the teams in front of us,” Beane said. “For us, it was worth giving up that pick to ensure we got him.”

[justasportsfan]

This team has tied up so much cap on the DL and got us nowhere in terms of the SB. Looks like Beane is saying with this draft, if the D it cant stop offenses then we'll go shootout every game all the way to the sb. Works for KC who does it with Kelce.

[Woodman]

This team has tied up so much cap on the DL and got us nowhere in terms of the SB. Looks like Beane is saying with this draft, if the D it cant stop offenses then we'll go shootout every game all the way to the sb. Works for KC who does it with Kelce.

Most points always win. :gobills:

[notacon]

In the last 8 playoff games they gave up 204.

Bengals 27
Miami 31
KC 42
Patriots 17
Colts 24
Ravens 3
KC 38
Houston 22

The defense has in fact stunk.
:sigh:


We’ve gone over this several times. It’s silly.

In the last 8 playoff games the Kansas City Chiefs gave up 214 vs the Bills giving up 204. 204 is LESS than 214.

Philly - 35
Cincy - 20
Jax - 20
Cincy - 27
Buffalo - 36
Pittsburgh - 21
Tampa Bay - 31
Buffalo - 24

Average points allowed - 26.5. VS the Bills average points allowed of 25.5 Again....the Bills 25.5 is LESS than the Chiefs’ 26.5.

The bigger difference is in OFFENSE....

Bills points scored in last 8 playoff games....

Cincy - 10
Miami - 34
KC - 36
NE - 47
KC - 24
Baltimore - 17
Indy - 27
Houston - 19

214 points scored, 26.75 average.

KC’s points scored in last 8 playoff games....

Philly - 38
Cincy - 23
Jax - 27
Cincy - 24
Buffalo - 42
Pittsburgh - 42
Tampa - 9
Buffalo - 38

243 points scored, 30.38 average.


KC’s 243 points is MORE than the Bills 214.

NO the defense DID NOT in fact “stunk”.

The OFFENSE underperformed. Facts are facts.

[notacon]

A legitimate old fart remembers Paul Seymour (7), Rueben Gant (18) and Tony Hunter (12)...other first round 'can't miss' tight ends the Bills drafted.

:rofl: :rofl: Seriously?!?!?

If you have to go back to drafts in 1973, 1974 and 1983 your argument is monumentally weak tea.

Sorry, but draft picks made 40 and 50 freakin years ago are totally irrelevant. And I mean TOTALLY irrelevant.

That's the same as in 2018 saying that because previous GM’s during the terrible ownership of Ralph Wilson whiffed on EJ Manuel, JP Losman and Todd Collins that it brings into doubt the positive prospect of Josh Allen.

I’m surprised (but not that much) that you even tried such silliness.

:rofl: :rofl:

[notacon]

And all 3 were stereotypical TEs. This guy isn’t a stereotypical TE.
The more critical fact is that TE’s of 40 and 50 years ago, when the game was completely different, means absolutely nothing in today’s game.

Who was considered a "stereotypical TE” last century have little relation to what a "stereotypical TE” means in the 2020’s. TE’s of that era were there primarily to block for the running game.
If they caught some passes, that was a bonus...icing on the cake.

[Woodman]

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