So lets talk about our new LB

[Cali512]

I actually have mixed feelings about this. If we can keep him at 228-230 (Werner is 6-3 230), and allow him to roam like Edmunds, i really like this pick. He ran a 4.49 at 228 at the combine but i dont think that was his playing weight, but unlike Bernard, he actually has a body type that he probably could keep some weight up

For him being lighter, he seems to have the ability to get through lineman which is surprising, he's extremely aggressive, and he has excellent sideline to sideline range. Im curious what yalls thoughts are because they say he may be an OLB but he played MLB in college and racked up 132 tackles, 10 tkfl, and 5 sacks at that position. I think putting him at OLB for a month to see how his strength translates may be a good idea, but he's definitely more comfortable at MLB

What are yalls thoughts?

[Ed]

Beane already said they see him as an OLB in Milano's role. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to use a 3rd round pick on a backup OLB.

[justasportsfan]

only Allen was Beanes sure hit amongst Beanes top picks. . If it wasn't for Allen and Diggs ,this team isn't much of a playoff team.

Although he's done well with late picks in Davis and Milano, Epenesa , Oliver , Edmunds haven't lived up to where they were drafted.

What makes me feel better about his draft is when I look at the Pat's draft lately.

[YardRat]

There's always hope. I don't know too much about him, but he doesn't look too stout against linemen and the run to me.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

only Allen was Beanes sure hit amongst Beanes top picks. . If it wasn't for Allen and Diggs ,this team isn't much of a playoff team.

Although he's done well with late picks in Davis and Milano, Epenesa , Oliver , Edmunds haven't lived up to where they were drafted.

What makes me feel better about his draft is when I look at the Pat's draft lately.

He didn’t pick Milano actually. That was Whaley and McDermott.

[justasportsfan]

He didn’t pick Milano actually. That was Whaley and McDermott.

Thanks.

[Mace]

Special teams tweener....don't get it.

[Ingtar33]

Beane already said they see him as an OLB in Milano's role. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me to use a 3rd round pick on a backup OLB.

Thats about right, he actually reminded me a lot of milano when i saw some of his highlights.

[swiper]

I kept hearing during the draft that the position of LB has morphed into something new. A bunch of Coy Wires behind the d-line that can cover slot/TEs. That is obviously what the Bills want with drafting Edmunds, Bernard, and Dorian Williams. It seems the MLB in the mold of Shane Conlan is falling by the wayside.

[Billseye]

Does anyone think they were going to take Overshown? He seemed like the better fit and went one pick before Buffalo to Dallas. I had the same thought about Vorhees to the Ravens…

[swiper]

Does anyone think they were going to take Overshown? He seemed like the better fit and went one pick before Buffalo to Dallas. I had the same thought about Vorhees to the Ravens…

Seemed like pay-back for the Bills jumping in front of them to take Dalton Kincaid.

[sukie]

only Allen was Beanes sure hit amongst Beanes top picks. . If it wasn't for Allen and Diggs ,this team isn't much of a playoff team.

Although he's done well with late picks in Davis and Milano, Epenesa , Oliver , Edmunds haven't lived up to where they were drafted.

What makes me feel better about his draft is when I look at the Pat's draft lately.

Moving up in the 4th for a kicker with an average leg. Accurate but average… Nice pick, Bill.

[Forward_Lateral]

I kept hearing during the draft that the position of LB has morphed into something new. A bunch of Coy Wires behind the d-line that can cover slot/TEs. That is obviously what the Bills want with drafting Edmunds, Bernard, and Dorian Williams. It seems the MLB in the mold of Shane Conlan is falling by the wayside.

Which goes hand in hand with a traditional 4-3 becoming extinct. Teams are passing at all time highs, and Defensive strategy seems to be to have a corner/safety/LB mixture of a player instead of a traditional 3rd LB. I personally hate it, but maybe my mind will change with McDermott in complete charge of it

[DraftBoy]

The biggest concern with Williams is the same issue all our current LB’s have. Lack of positional strength to function in the wash and get off blocks to make plays. You just hope Williams athleticism allows him at attack the LOS and beat blocks to the point of attack. The issue there is that our D doesn’t really call for the LB to attack downhill, it’s more read and react.

Should have an immediate role on ST though.

[justasportsfan]

I think he was brought in to coach our players how to tackle.

- - - Updated - - -

I think he was brought in to coach our players how to tackle.

[Woodman]

Which goes hand in hand with a traditional 4-3 becoming extinct. Teams are passing at all time highs, and Defensive strategy seems to be to have a corner/safety/LB mixture of a player instead of a traditional 3rd LB. I personally hate it, but maybe my mind will change with McDermott in complete charge of it

The days of Dick Butkus and Ray Nitschke are gone forever it appears.

[Woodman]

Does anyone think they were going to take Overshown? He seemed like the better fit and went one pick before Buffalo to Dallas. I had the same thought about Vorhees to the Ravens…

Agree on both.

Here's hoping we win the jumping contest :lol:

[Goobylal]

Moving up in the 4th for a kicker with an average leg. Accurate but average… Nice pick, Bill.

I'm thankful he took some guy a round earlier than Bass who never played a meaningful down for them.

[Woodman]

I'm thankful he took some guy a round earlier than Bass who never played a meaningful down for them.
He is the entire war room for the Patriots.

Nice to see. :D :D :D

[cookie G]

Does anyone think they were going to take Overshown? He seemed like the better fit and went one pick before Buffalo to Dallas. I had the same thought about Vorhees to the Ravens…

Not really sure who they were going after. But it wasn't just Overshown they might have missed out on. The 3rd rd saw a run on LBers before it got to the Bills.

Sanders, Simpson, Henley and Overshown all came off the board in the 3rd. Call it a panic if you will, but I'm sure they looked at who was left and said, "we have to do this now". I'm pretty sure they did the same thing in the 2nd, although Cybo was a more obvious choice.

That said, I like the pick, I like the player. I like what he brings. Speed, pursuit, coverage ability, ability to spy a mobile QB, preventing a RB from turning a corner...all necessary skillsets. When asked to blitz, he can get in the backfield and after the QB in a hurry.

Depending on how his coverage ability shows in training camp, don't be surprised if they go back to a 3 LB set, at least limitedly.

He is a situation where you you don't lament over what you don't have, but work on maximizing what you do have.

[Cali512]

I was told all year we dont use a traditional MLB. On short yardage plays we do need a gap filler which i believe Klien will take the traditional MLB role

We usually run nickel with Milano slightly to the side and Edmunds shaded towards the middle more so. With Williams speed, he could fill that role nicely.

We'll probably see our starters like this to start the year

Milano-Bernard
Klein-Spector-Williams
Williams/Bernard

Von miller is a DE who plays standup so he doesnt could as an OLB in the traditional way like some people act like he is

If he can keep his weight to the 228-230 range, at MLB thats a modern size. Most of the best LBs in the nfl right now hover around the 230-235 range and around 6-1 to 6-2. His playing weight was around 222 though during his college career so he obviously gained weight for the combine which is impressive that he still ran a 4.49 with the added weight. Bernard is build more like a safety, Williams looks like he has room to put weight on and maintain it.

Fres Werner is one of the skinniest LBs in the nfl. Hes 6-3 but only 230, yet he's arguably the best LB in the nfl. 6-1 230 is traditional. Williams played MLB his whole career and it looks like they they ran a lot of nickel and i believe 5 men on the line with him playing center. So he did have that responsibility that we put on edmunds

You dont get 130 tackles, 10 tkfl and 5 sacks in 14 games by accident. Playing at 228 with more muscle mass should help him with tackling and he definitely plays very aggressive. For him being 220 in college, there are tons of videos of him taking on lineman and winning


I think the goal is to have Williams take Edmunds spot eventually, with Milano and Bernard being on the outside, and hopefully Spector can either solidify the back MLB spot or, which no one is talking about, with a really good camp, he could take it. He definitely plays the position the most traditionally out of any LB on our depth chart aside from maybe Klein, so we shouldnt rule him out

[YardRat]

Which goes hand in hand with a traditional 4-3 becoming extinct. Teams are passing at all time highs, and Defensive strategy seems to be to have a corner/safety/LB mixture of a player instead of a traditional 3rd LB. I personally hate it, but maybe my mind will change with McDermott in complete charge of it

All four teams in the conference championship games last season started the game in the traditional 4-3 base.

[DraftBoy]

If we’re going to run a 4-3 base then who is playing the Sam? Milano at Will, Williams/Klein at Mike, and ?? at Sam.

[YardRat]

If we’re going to run a 4-3 base then who is playing the Sam? Milano at Will, Williams/Klein at Mike, and ?? at Sam.

I doubt we are...but if we did I wouldn't mind seeing what a Milano-Klein-Williams line-up could do. A little soft on the edges and it would be tough taking T.Johnson off the field, but what they have been doing up until now certainly doesn't work.

[Goobylal]

If we’re going to run a 4-3 base then who is playing the Sam? Milano at Will, Williams/Klein at Mike, and ?? at Sam.

Dodson.

[DraftBoy]

Dodson.

Yikes. That’s a big risk.

[DraftBoy]

I doubt we are...but if we did I wouldn't mind seeing what a Milano-Klein-Williams line-up could do. A little soft on the edges and it would be tough taking T.Johnson off the field, but what they have been doing up until now certainly doesn't work.

Williams starting at Sam? Big ask for a rookie.

[Goobylal]

Yikes. That’s a big risk.

Prior to the draft they said they had Edmunds' replacement already in-house. I can't see anyone else.

[DraftBoy]

Prior to the draft they said they had Edmunds' replacement already in-house. I can't see anyone else.

Yea, that mindset is exactly what scares me about next year with this team.

[notacon]

only Allen was Beanes sure hit amongst Beanes top picks. . If it wasn't for Allen and Diggs ,this team isn't much of a playoff team.

Although he's done well with late picks in Davis and Milano, Epenesa , Oliver , Edmunds haven't lived up to where they were drafted.

What makes me feel better about his draft is when I look at the Pat's draft lately.

I don’t agree with this at all.

It takes a LOT more than just Allen and Diggs to put the team on the field with the second most regular season wins in the past four seasons (47...#1 is KC with 52) and with the second longest active playoff streak (4 years...KC #1 with 8 years. Tamps Bay #3 with 3 years, four teams with 2 years and 7 teams with one year....that means EIGHTEEN teams or 56% of the league have ZERO playoff streak).

And, just like I predicted, the unfounded Edmunds hatred would live on after he left the team. Edmunds was signed making him the highest off-ball LB in NFL history and the 4th highest paid LB. That is opposite of "haven't lived up to where he were drafted”.


Money talks and bullcrap walks. The money has spoken and the ****ting on Edmends is the bullcrap walking.

[TigerJ]

Beane said it was the intention of the Bills to work Williams at OLB, but he specifically did not rule out the possibility he could end up at MLB. He's got lots to learn regardless of where he ends up.

[Cali512]

I don’t agree with this at all.

It takes a LOT more than just Allen and Diggs to put the team on the field with the second most regular season wins in the past four seasons (47...#1 is KC with 52) and with the second longest active playoff streak (4 years...KC #1 with 8 years. Tamps Bay #3 with 3 years, four teams with 2 years and 7 teams with one year....that means EIGHTEEN teams or 56% of the league have ZERO playoff streak).

And, just like I predicted, the unfounded Edmunds hatred would live on after he left the team. Edmunds was signed making him the highest off-ball LB in NFL history and the 4th highest paid LB. That is opposite of "haven't lived up to where he were drafted”.


Money talks and bullcrap walks. The money has spoken and the ****ting on Edmends is the bullcrap walking.


Lets not completely turn this into a Edmunds thread, but if he was so important to our defense, why did we not replace him? It seems like we are content replacing him with his backups

[notacon]

Anyway, back to the predictions on how Dorian Williams is going to be used.

Like Ed said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263054-So-lets-talk-about-our-new-LB?p=5019713&viewfull=1#post5019713), "Beane already said they see him as an OLB in Milano's role” and Beane is relatively honest when he speak out.

He will be used primarily as a special teams player, and that is no small thing. The Bills lost several of their ST aces in Tyler Matakevich, Jake Kumerow (greatly reduced snap count in 2022 because of injury) and Taiwan Jones.


AJ Klein and Dodson have the experience with the defense, and it is yet to be seen how Bernard progresses in year two. There is little reason to rush Williams development.

Bernard had 62% of ST snaps his first year and only 10% of defensive snaps. His defensive snaps will probably increase.

Training camp competition will go along way in determining the pecking order beside Milano.

There is no doubt that the LB position is morphing into a quasi safety, albeit with more size. Speed and coverage skill are paramount.


Like Forward_Lateral said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263054-So-lets-talk-about-our-new-LB?p=5019847&viewfull=1#post5019847) the traditional 4-3 defense is quickly becoming extinct. I have detailed (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/262847-McDermott-to-Call-Defense-in-2023?p=5015142&viewfull=1#post5015142) this with these facts....

"In 2008, the percentage of snaps over the whole NFL that had five or more defensive backs averaged 43.4% That steadily increased every year so that by 2015, it was up to 63.4%

In 2021 that percentage was 75%.

The team with the highest percentage of nickel and dime snap count was Dallas at 98%, followed closely by Buffalo with 95%.

The Bills led the league in nickel snap count with 92%.

Nickel and dime defenses are now the overwhelming norm in the NFL and the new “base defense”.

Players like Bernard and Williams fit that trend.

[notacon]

Lets not completely turn this into a Edmunds thread, but if he was so important to our defense, why did we not replace him? It seems like we are content replacing him with his backups
It’s not me that brought him up.

The Bills cannot simply “replace” Edmunds. THAT’S THE POINT!!!! He is an $18M a year level player. Those high quality players do not grow on trees.

The Bills did the smart thing, and once they saw that there was no way to match what he was going to get on the open market, they tied up Milano for more years (at a very reasonable price) and then re-signed Poyer, again, at a very reasonable price.

None of the positions and players on the defense are on an island or play in a vacuum. It takes 11 players, meshing together to accomplish a strategy.

Trying to go out there to “replace” him is a fool’s errand. Best route is to bolster what you have, and make smart decisions based on the constraints of the cap, and look to the draft.

For this draft, the needs were on OFFENSE....as I have been preaching for months. Obviously, Beane is thinking exactly the same way, and even said so in the post draft interviews. Grabbing a dynamic offense weapon was and is KEY to success.

Second on that list of priorities is strengthening the O-line. They DID THAT TOO with the amazingly good fortune of having Torrence fall right in their laps at #59.

Many of the mock drafts had him for the Bills first round pick. Not me. I was thinking offense weapons all the way. I never thought that he would be there at #59, but G’s are like ILB’s and RB's....their value for first round is diminishing.

This year, the LB prospects, especially at the top were pretty weak.

So, there are only two ways to add players....the draft and FA. There is NO WAY the Bills can “replace” Edmunds in FA for anything close to a reasonable price.

There were much more critical priorities in this draft as described above. Hence, THAT is why the Bills are “content “replacing” him with his backups”.

[Cali512]

It’s not me that brought him up.

The Bills cannot simply “replace” Edmunds. THAT’S THE POINT!!!! He is an $18M a year level player. Those high quality players do not grow on trees.

The Bills did the smart thing, and once they saw that there was no way to match what he was going to get on the open market, they tied up Milano for more years (at a very reasonable price) and then re-signed Poyer, again, at a very reasonable price.

None of the positions and players on the defense are on an island or play in a vacuum. It takes 11 players, meshing together to accomplish a strategy.

Trying to go out there to “replace” him is a fool’s errand. Best route is to bolster what you have, and make smart decisions based on the constraints of the cap, and look to the draft.

For this draft, the needs were on OFFENSE....as I have been preaching for months. Obviously, Beane is thinking exactly the same way, and even said so in the post draft interviews. Grabbing a dynamic offense weapon was and is KEY to success.

Second on that list of priorities is strengthening the O-line. They DID THAT TOO with the amazingly good fortune of having Torrence fall right in their laps at #59.

Many of the mock drafts had him for the Bills first round pick. Not me. I was thinking offense weapons all the way. I never thought that he would be there at #59, but G’s are like ILB’s and RB's....their value for first round is diminishing.

This year, the LB prospects, especially at the top were pretty weak.

So, there are only two ways to add players....the draft and FA. There is NO WAY the Bills can “replace” Edmunds in FA for anything close to a reasonable price.

There were much more critical priorities in this draft as described above. Hence, THAT is why the Bills are “content “replacing” him with his backups”.


First off, thank you for responding without sounding condescending, now to my point



<body id="cke_pastebin" style="position: absolute; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow: hidden; left: -1000px;">if we lost diggs, we are drafting/signing a receiver high. Same with Dawkins, Morse, Rousseau, Von, White, or Poyer/Hyde


We didnt even bring in a single LB for a visit and only expressed interest in one LB, Wagner


You dont lose "one of your best and most important players" then replace him with his backup unless you dont foresee a big drop off. There was also absolutely no news of us even attempting to resign him, we were comfortable losing him




Edmunds is also going to a 4-3 team, we may start running a traditional 4-3 defense. Which also goes to a previous point i made that Edmunds shouldnt play center field. If we dont, i think Williams could provide what edmunds did in that role regardless
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