Roles for the Rookies

[YardRat]

TE Dalton Kincaid---#2 tight end, #4 wide receiver. How much he sees the field depends on how quickly he can get up to speed, and how much Dorsey wants to use him.

OG O'Cyrus Torrence---if Bates/Boettger are healthy, and the McGovern money was well spent, Torrence isn't starting right out of the gate. I don't see him beating out two vets that have logged a lot of snaps in a McDermott training camp. He'll probably start eventually once guys begin getting dinged.

LB Dorian Williams---Milano is cemented at one spot...Klein and Dodson aren't going anywhere yet, one is going to start and the other be his back-up. Matakevitch is a special team keeper. Are they going to give up on Bernard or Spector after one season? Maybe he takes the #53 spot away from Taiwan Jones...He has to make the final roster, but he'll probably see some teams snaps at most.

Shorter, Broeker, Austin will be practice squad guys or cuts.

What do you think?

[GreedoII]

TE Dalton Kincaid---#2 tight end, #4 wide receiver. How much he sees the field depends on how quickly he can get up to speed, and how much Dorsey wants to use him.

OG O'Cyrus Torrence---if Bates/Boettger are healthy, and the McGovern money was well spent, Torrence isn't starting right out of the gate. I don't see him beating out two vets that have logged a lot of snaps in a McDermott training camp. He'll probably start eventually once guys begin getting dinged.

LB Dorian Williams---Milano is cemented at one spot...Klein and Dodson aren't going anywhere yet, one is going to start and the other be his back-up. Matakevitch is a special team keeper. Are they going to give up on Bernard or Spector after one season? Maybe he takes the #53 spot away from Taiwan Jones...He has to make the final roster, but he'll probably see some teams snaps at most.

Shorter, Broeker, Austin will be practice squad guys or cuts.

What do you think?


1. I agree. I assume Dorsey was aware of the interest so his ass better use him.
2. He starts day 1. Boetts gets cut
3. Williams is special teams and 3rd downs for his coverage ability and speed.
4. Agree

[Goobylal]

Kincaid will play a lot. I can't see them taking him in the first and not using him much. How they play him is what I'm curious about because Diggs is obviously #1 and Knox is highly-paid. Do they put him out wide?

I think Torrence starts at RG, where he dominated in college (zero sacks given up) and McGovern starts at LG, where he played the past 2 years for the 'Boys. Bates is the IOL backup and heir to Morse (maybe sooner than later).

I can see Williams starting. He's the 2nd most talented LB on the roster now.

Shorter I think has a role on the team. Austin as well. Broeker could very well make it over Boettger and Edwards.

[DraftBoy]

TE Dalton Kincaid---#2 tight end, #4 wide receiver. How much he sees the field depends on how quickly he can get up to speed, and how much Dorsey wants to use him.

OG O'Cyrus Torrence---if Bates/Boettger are healthy, and the McGovern money was well spent, Torrence isn't starting right out of the gate. I don't see him beating out two vets that have logged a lot of snaps in a McDermott training camp. He'll probably start eventually once guys begin getting dinged.

LB Dorian Williams---Milano is cemented at one spot...Klein and Dodson aren't going anywhere yet, one is going to start and the other be his back-up. Matakevitch is a special team keeper. Are they going to give up on Bernard or Spector after one season? Maybe he takes the #53 spot away from Taiwan Jones...He has to make the final roster, but he'll probably see some teams snaps at most.

Shorter, Broeker, Austin will be practice squad guys or cuts.

What do you think?

I think you nailed it. I don’t expect any of the rookies to contribute in a huge way unless there is an injury or incompetence.

[John Doe]

Torrance has a better than 50% chance to start right away. They loved Bates as the super-backup to all 5 positions before and they will love to have him in that role again.

I think that they bring in a vet MLB and Klein or Dotson goes to the practice squad. No team wanted Klein last year and no team will want him this year.

Shorter will make the team at WR 6 - he really does not have much competition, he is a draft pick, and he fits the culture perfectly.

[Night Train]

I'll let camp sort it out.

Kincaid seems destined for the slot position over small WR's. Beane said as much. Torrance may take a while and maybe not. The rest need to be pointed towards a specific role which has yet to be determined.

[Woodman]

Kincaid will play a lot. I can't see them taking him in the first and not using him much. How they play him is what I'm curious about because Diggs is obviously #1 and Knox is highly-paid. Do they put him out wide?

I think Torrence starts at RG, where he dominated in college (zero sacks given up) and McGovern starts at LG, where he played the past 2 years for the 'Boys. Bates is the IOL backup and heir to Morse (maybe sooner than later).

I can see Williams starting. He's the 2nd most talented LB on the roster now.

Shorter I think has a role on the team. Austin as well. Broeker could very well make it over Boettger and Edwards.

Agree and hope this is what we get ..... with one small adjustment .... Broeker over Edwards for sure but I'd still like to keep Ike Boettger unless he just can't get back to form due to his injury.

[cookie G]

Kincaid gets at least 50% of the snaps on the O, and contributes substantially. I expect his contributions to take off in the 2nd half of the season

Unless he's really not ready, Cybo becomes a Day 1 starter.

If they are creative in their defensive scheme, like Kincaid, Williams is on the field for at least half of the defensive snaps.

[DraftBoy]

Kincaid gets at least 50% of the snaps on the O, and contributes substantially. I expect his contributions to take off in the 2nd half of the season

Unless he's really not ready, Cybo becomes a Day 1 starter.

If they are creative in their defensive scheme, like Kincaid, Williams is on the field for at least half of the defensive snaps.

Half for Williams seems like huge expectations for an undersized rookie LB. It’s not like they spent a 1st round pick on the guy and need to force him onto the field. I would mildly surprised if he sees more than 1/3 of the defensive snaps barring injuries.

[Goobylal]

Agree and hope this is what we get ..... with one small adjustment .... Broeker over Edwards for sure but I'd still like to keep Ike Boettger unless he just can't get back to form due to his injury.

They could probably stash Boettger on the PS.

[DraftBoy]

They could probably stash Boettger on the PS.

I mean I guess, but I’d rather use their PS for actual development, not just stashing guys who aren’t good enough just in case.

[Goobylal]

Half for Williams seems like huge expectations for an undersized rookie LB. It’s not like they spent a 1st round pick on the guy and need to force him onto the field. I would mildly surprised if he sees more than 1/3 of the defensive snaps barring injuries.

He's bigger (and much faster) than Milano was when he came out and Milano started 3/4 of the way into the season.

[DraftBoy]

He's bigger (and much faster) than Milano was when he came out and Milano started 3/4 of the way into the season.

We were a ****ty team back then. We shouldn’t want our rookies playing too terribly much unless they are going to be franchise changers.

[Goobylal]

We were a ****ty team back then. We shouldn’t want our rookies playing too terribly much unless they are going to be franchise changers.

That was the 2017 when they made the playoffs. But I'd like to see rookies making an impact.

[Mace]

TE Dalton Kincaid---#2 tight end, #4 wide receiver. How much he sees the field depends on how quickly he can get up to speed, and how much Dorsey wants to use him.

OG O'Cyrus Torrence---if Bates/Boettger are healthy, and the McGovern money was well spent, Torrence isn't starting right out of the gate. I don't see him beating out two vets that have logged a lot of snaps in a McDermott training camp. He'll probably start eventually once guys begin getting dinged.

LB Dorian Williams---Milano is cemented at one spot...Klein and Dodson aren't going anywhere yet, one is going to start and the other be his back-up. Matakevitch is a special team keeper. Are they going to give up on Bernard or Spector after one season? Maybe he takes the #53 spot away from Taiwan Jones...He has to make the final roster, but he'll probably see some teams snaps at most.

Shorter, Broeker, Austin will be practice squad guys or cuts.

What do you think?

I think that about covers it.

[sahlensguy]

Bill's ghost new weapons.

So, Kincaid will be a decoy for the first half of the season.

Not even one more role for O'cyrus, please. He'll be fine.

Williams will be a starter after the bye.

Shorter will not contribute much but will replace Gabe in '24.

[cookie G]

Half for Williams seems like huge expectations for an undersized rookie LB. It’s not like they spent a 1st round pick on the guy and need to force him onto the field. I would mildly surprised if he sees more than 1/3 of the defensive snaps barring injuries.

For a modern day off ball LB in a 4-3, 6'1 and about 230 is more of average than undersized.

Fred Warner is 6'3" and plays at between 230-235. At most, he's 7 lbs heavier. Lots of quality 3-4 inside LB's, like Roquan Smith and Patrick Queen in Baltimore, aren't any bigger.

If people want him to gain weight, the S and C coach doubles up on his leg days.

If you look at his body, his upper body is huge, his lower body not so much. He could easily put on 10-15 lbs of muscle, which puts him up in the 240 lb range.

To partially negate his length advantage, his arms are extraordinarily long, nearly 34" and his hand size is over 10". In terms of leverage, it makes up for lack of height.

In terms of shedding blocks...meh, our 6'5" 250 lb MLB wasn't very good at it himself. That's not something you want your Mike doing on a regular basis anyway.

I know what Beane said about trying him on the outside, and they might. But I suspect this is your new MLB.

[Mace]

We were a ****ty team back then. We shouldn’t want our rookies playing too terribly much unless they are going to be franchise changers.

Can't really agree with that. They did themselves no favors holding Cook, Elam, and Shakir back last season. I don't see the defining trait of a rookie as being a rookie. It depends on the performance of the guys they're competing with. Vets for the sake of vets has not helped this team progress.

[Woodman]

You gotta put em out there.

I'm afraid our philosophy will continue as it has in the past.

[Bill Cody]

For a modern day off ball LB in a 4-3, 6'1 and about 230 is more of average than undersized.

Fred Warner is 6'3" and plays at between 230-235. At most, he's 7 lbs heavier. Lots of quality 3-4 inside LB's, like Roquan Smith and Patrick Queen in Baltimore, aren't any bigger.

If people want him to gain weight, the S and C coach doubles up on his leg days.

If you look at his body, his upper body is huge, his lower body not so much. He could easily put on 10-15 lbs of muscle, which puts him up in the 240 lb range.

To partially negate his length advantage, his arms are extraordinarily long, nearly 34" and his hand size is over 10". In terms of leverage, it makes up for lack of height.

In terms of shedding blocks...meh, our 6'5" 250 lb MLB wasn't very good at it himself. That's not something you want your Mike doing on a regular basis anyway.

I know what Beane said about trying him on the outside, and they might. But I suspect this is your new MLB.

I think that’s very possible

[Goobylal]

Shaquille (formerly went by Darius, his first name) Leonard is also 6'2" and 230#.

[Bill Cody]

Interior OL will be one of the most interesting competitions of camp on paper. But you don’t know about injuries

[Woodman]

For a modern day off ball LB in a 4-3, 6'1 and about 230 is more of average than undersized.
I know what Beane said about trying him on the outside, and they might. But I suspect this is your new MLB.
I heard Beane say Bernard etc. etc. etc. would get a shot at MLB he also said they wanted to give Williams a look there as well.

He's our MLB JMO .... and I totally expect Beane is still looking for a vet .... some of the faces will change this year.

[Mace]

I think that’s very possible

Won't be this year. Dodson will be the mlb. Best hope is that they try using 3 lb's situationally. Defense needs creativity. Dunno McD is up to it.

[Woodman]

Interior OL will be one of the most interesting competitions of camp on paper. But you don’t know about injuries

I agree and believe that with that OL competition and the addition of Kincaid we just helped Josh from running the ball as much as he's done.

This draft is making a lot more sense today.

[Woodman]

Won't be this year. Dodson will be the mlb. Best hope is that they try using 3 lb's situationally. Defense needs creativity. Dunno McD is up to it.

There's gonna be a ton of competition for the MLB position that is clear from the interview Beane gave .... will it be Dodson :idunno: but whoever gets it will earn it.

[DraftBoy]

For a modern day off ball LB in a 4-3, 6'1 and about 230 is more of average than undersized.

Fred Warner is 6'3" and plays at between 230-235. At most, he's 7 lbs heavier. Lots of quality 3-4 inside LB's, like Roquan Smith and Patrick Queen in Baltimore, aren't any bigger.

If people want him to gain weight, the S and C coach doubles up on his leg days.

If you look at his body, his upper body is huge, his lower body not so much. He could easily put on 10-15 lbs of muscle, which puts him up in the 240 lb range.

To partially negate his length advantage, his arms are extraordinarily long, nearly 34" and his hand size is over 10". In terms of leverage, it makes up for lack of height.

In terms of shedding blocks...meh, our 6'5" 250 lb MLB wasn't very good at it himself. That's not something you want your Mike doing on a regular basis anyway.

I know what Beane said about trying him on the outside, and they might. But I suspect this is your new MLB.

You’re comparing this kid to some of the best and emerging LB’s in the NFL like he is the same size or has the same skillset which isn’t entirely true.

If our issue with Edmunds was that he couldn’t keep clean and shed then why would we suddenly be ok with adding somebody else with the same issue? I’m not sure what you’re point was there, it’s not like there was an army of posters here who want a repeat of that.

[Mace]

There's gonna be a ton of competition for the MLB position that is clear from the interview Beane gave .... will it be Dodson :idunno: but whoever gets it will earn it.

There really isn't. McD....calling the defense....will not trust anyone but the vet to call defensive signals. That's McD. It's not like the beginning of a program with Edmunds with nothing to lose. Dodson will be the starting mlb this year....bank on it.

[Woodman]

There really isn't. McD....calling the defense....will not trust anyone but the vet to call defensive signals. That's McD. It's not like the beginning of a program with Edmunds with nothing to lose. Dodson will be the starting mlb this year....bank on it.

That has been his history for sure .... the rook would have to be incredible to win the job.

[cookie G]

There really isn't. McD....calling the defense....will not trust anyone but the vet to call defensive signals. That's McD. It's not like the beginning of a program with Edmunds with nothing to lose. Dodson will be the starting mlb this year....bank on it.

pfft. If need be, you can put the green dot on Milano and let him call out the play to the defense. A few other teams are starting to use other positions to wear the dot. Damn, the Ravens have a safety relaying the plays.

For those complaining, what were the alternatives? Yeah, Jack Campbell seemed to be a fit, but he went to the Lions.

Were you willing to give up your 1st and 3rd for him? to dump more top assets onto a defense that doesn't show up in the playoffs?

Were you willing to overpay Edmunds with money you didn't have to keep him?

Use your 2nd on a Drew Sanders, who might not be a Mike anyway? If you do that, you end up not drafting Torrance...and do little or nothing to improve your sub average Oline.

Yeah, I know which way I would have gone.

Concentrate on what you have.

In the 3rd, you got a fast, young LB who can run, pursue and is ahead of the curve on pass coverage. And he's a play maker. Its up to them to figure out how to use him.

And as an extra bonus, he's got the face of a young Muddy Waters with long hair.

The Mannish Boy.
The Hoochie Coochie Man.

Now, watch the pretty lady play the pie-anah. You'll be glad you did.

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[YardRat]

As much as people like to "Ha-ha!" over the thought of us screwing Dallas out of Kincaid I think Detroit might have really ****ed us over worse by snagging Campbell that high.

[Goobylal]

As much as people like to "Ha-ha!" over the thought of us screwing Dallas out of Kincaid I think Detroit might have really ****ed us over worse by snagging Campbell that high.

Time will tell. The biggest knock that I heard about Campbell is he practiced and played against some antiquated offenses.

[cookie G]

As much as people like to "Ha-ha!" over the thought of us screwing Dallas out of Kincaid I think Detroit might have really ****ed us over worse by snagging Campbell that high.

eh, I never cared about screwing over Dallas, they aren't in the conference, much less the AFCE.

The Lions have their own way of team building and so far having been doing pretty well. They just liked Campbell and had the pick to do it.

Now, we can thank Belichick for screwing over the Jets. He traded down with the Steelers so they could take Broderick Jones. I don't doubt the Jets wanted him to protect their new middle aged QB.

[Goobylal]

eh, I never cared about screwing over Dallas, they aren't in the conference, much less the AFCE.

The Lions have their own way of team building and so far having been doing pretty well. They just liked Campbell and had the pick to do it.

Now, we can thank Belichick for screwing over the Jets. He traded down with the Steelers so they could take Broderick Jones. I don't doubt the Jets wanted him to protect their new middle aged QB.

Sounds like Belicheat also screwed over the Cheats because he accepted a smaller deal than he could have demanded.

[Woodman]

Kincaid was rated much higher than Campbell .... we lucked out.

Did we need a MLB .... sure but you don't trade up that high!

[Goobylal]

Kincaid was rated much higher than Campbell .... we lucked out.

Did we need a MLB .... sure but you don't trade up that high!

They were never going to trade up for Campbell, much less to 17th overall, which would have required their 1st, 2nd and 4th picks.

[Woodman]

They were never going to trade up for Campbell, much less to 17th overall, which would have required their 1st, 2nd and 4th picks.
As I said we lucked out and trading up at the cost it would have taken would have been insane.

We did great ..... Campbell wasn't meant for us that's it plain and simple.

[Novacane]

If our issue with Edmunds was that he couldn’t keep clean and shed then why would we suddenly be ok with adding somebody else with the same issue? I’m not sure what you’re point was there, it’s not like there was an army of posters here who want a repeat of that.


I didnt feel like that was the big issue with Edmunds. For me it was all the times he'd get to the play but run himself out of position to make the play.

[DraftBoy]

I didnt feel like that was the big issue with Edmunds. For me it was all the times he'd get to the play but run himself out of position to make the play.

Also a fair critique. My issue was more about the lack of functional strength to get off blocks.

[Forward_Lateral]

I didnt feel like that was the big issue with Edmunds. For me it was all the times he'd get to the play but run himself out of position to make the play.

Agreed. He'd often run himself into being blocked, too. His instincts were downright terrible at times.

[swiper]

Kincaid was rated much higher than Campbell .... we lucked out.

Did we need a MLB .... sure but you don't trade up that high!

Not compared to positional need. MLB - biggest need. TE - no need whatsoever.

[swiper]

Not compared to positional need. MLB - biggest need. TE - no need whatsoever.

It was just Beane reaching for the last guy he had a first round grade on after telling the world he only had about 20 guys rated as 1st rounders.

[swiper]

TE Dalton Kincaid---#2 tight end, #4 wide receiver. How much he sees the field depends on how quickly he can get up to speed, and how much Dorsey wants to use him.

OG O'Cyrus Torrence---if Bates/Boettger are healthy, and the McGovern money was well spent, Torrence isn't starting right out of the gate. I don't see him beating out two vets that have logged a lot of snaps in a McDermott training camp. He'll probably start eventually once guys begin getting dinged.

LB Dorian Williams---Milano is cemented at one spot...Klein and Dodson aren't going anywhere yet, one is going to start and the other be his back-up. Matakevitch is a special team keeper. Are they going to give up on Bernard or Spector after one season? Maybe he takes the #53 spot away from Taiwan Jones...He has to make the final roster, but he'll probably see some teams snaps at most.

Shorter, Broeker, Austin will be practice squad guys or cuts.

What do you think?

I still feel the bigger question is what role do last year's draftees have in the scheme of things. Because that is still not clear.

[Oaf]

Shorter will make the team and be #6 WR, main backup to Gabe.

Dorian is a great athlete but strikes me as a bit of an airhead. I'd guess he'll be a longer study unfortunately. Another questionable 3rd rd pick in the line of Spencer Brown, Zach Moss, and Bernard.

[Goobylal]

Not compared to positional need. MLB - biggest need. TE - no need whatsoever.


It was just Beane reaching for the last guy he had a first round grade on after telling the world he only had about 20 guys rated as 1st rounders.

Many people were clamoring for a WR. Think of Kincaid as one. And this draft had fewer than 20 1st round talents.


Shorter will make the team and be #6 WR, main backup to Gabe.

Dorian is a great athlete but strikes me as a bit of an airhead. I'd guess he'll be a longer study unfortunately. Another questionable 3rd rd pick in the line of Spencer Brown, Zach Moss, and Bernard.

Airhead?

[notacon]

Many people were clamoring for a WR. Think of Kincaid as one. And this draft had fewer than 20 1st round talents.


Exactly. The need for more offense threats was #1 priority. 2nd priority is interior O-line. MLB, not nearly as much.

It’s not surprising that the Bills spent their three top draft picks on these three positions in the order they did. Besides the 2022 3rd round pick for LB.

The first 100 players drafted are premium draft capital. Spending two of those over two years on LB is enough.

The defense was not the issue last year. The OFFENSE was. That is why every offensive position group (besides QB of course) has gone through substantive overhauls. Not so much on the defense because the defense is pretty tight.

The Bills 53 man roster is divided equally...25 on offense, 25 on defense and 3 special teams.

FORTY FOUR percent of the 2022 opening day offensive roster are no longer on the team. Eleven of the twenty five.

Only EIGHT percent (2 of 25) of the 2022 opening day defensive roster are no longer on the team.

That speaks volumes. The Bills' management gets it.

[Goobylal]

Exactly. The need for more offense threats was #1 priority. 2nd priority is interior O-line. MLB, not nearly as much.

It’s not surprising that the Bills spent their three top draft picks on these three positions in the order they did. Besides the 2022 3rd round pick for LB.

The first 100 players drafted are premium draft capital. Spending two of those over two years on LB is enough.

The defense was not the issue last year. The OFFENSE was. That is why every offensive position group (besides QB of course) has gone through substantive overhauls. Not so much on the defense because the defense is pretty tight.

The Bills 53 man roster is divided equally...25 on offense, 25 on defense and 3 special teams.

FORTY FOUR percent of the 2022 opening day offensive roster are no longer on the team. Eleven of the twenty five.

Only EIGHT percent (2 of 25) of the 2022 opening day defensive roster are no longer on the team.

That speaks volumes. The Bills' management gets it.

I disagree on MLB. After losing TE, they needed to find a replacement. No one on the roster thrills me. Dorian has some raw tools to work with and hopefully he pans out.

[notacon]

I disagree on MLB. After losing TE, they needed to find a replacement. No one on the roster thrills me. Dorian has some raw tools to work with and hopefully he pans out.

Fair enough. We’ll see soon enough.

[Woodman]

Not compared to positional need. MLB - biggest need. TE - no need whatsoever.
MLB biggest need. :check:

2 TE's on the field with this level of skill .... innovative and deadly! :check:

So is it needed based on what we're about to get ..... imo absolutely!

:gobills: