Frazier gone but not forgotten???

[Woodman]

Leslie Frazier, Anthony Lynn among NFL's "Coach Accelerator" participants - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/18/leslie-frazier-anthony-lynn-among-nfls-coach-accelerator-participants/)
For the second straight year, the NFL will use its “Coach Accelerator” program to put a diverse collection of coaches in the same room as NFL owners.
The league announced that 40 coaches are participating last year, including former head coaches Leslie Frazier and Anthony Lynn, both of whom are hoping to get another head-coaching opportunity. The meetings between coaches and owners will take place May 21-23 at the spring meeting in Minneapolis.

[Woodman]

“In the year since its inception, we’ve been encouraged by the positive response to the Accelerator from both club owners and participants,” NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement. “We look forward to continuing to build on an incredible program that supports diverse talent.”


The participants this year are:


Teryl Austin, Pittsburgh Steelers
Chris Beatty, Los Angeles Chargers
Marcus Brady, Philadelphia Eagles
Callie Brownson, Cleveland Browns
Mike Caldwell, Jacksonville Jaguars
DeMarcus Covington, New England Patriots
Ronald Curry, New Orleans Saints
Matt Daniels, Minnesota Vikings
Sean Desai, Philadelphia Eagles
Tony Dews, Tennessee Titans
Aden Durde, Dallas Cowboys
Jon Embree, Miami Dolphins
Leslie Frazier (no current team)

[sukie]

Who?

[bleve]

13 seconds. I won't forget.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

Lining the corners 10 yards off the l.o.s on 3rd and 5 I won’t forget either

[notacon]

Losing Frazier was very, very bad for the Bills.

There is little doubt that he took a leave because he was extremely disappointed in not even getting an interview for a HC job, which he deserves. There is absolutely a race problem the NFL has yet to deal worthy when it comes to coaching.

Too bad too many fickle Bills “fans” are too quick to **** on quality professionals within the organization.

[sukie]

I felt bad for 13 seconds. That is why he didn’t get serious interviews. That and his tenure at Minn wasn’t awesome.

[Novacane]

Losing Frazier was very, very bad for the Bills.

There is little doubt that he took a leave because he was extremely disappointed in not even getting an interview for a HC job, which he deserves. There is absolutely a race problem the NFL has yet to deal worthy when it comes to coaching.

Too bad too many fickle Bills “fans” are too quick to **** on quality professionals within the organization.


I couldn't disagree more! We don't know why he took a "leave of absence" It's all speculation. My speculation is his contract was up and he wasn't happy with what the Bills offered to stay.

He failed in his first shot as HC. What's he done here that demands a 2nd shot? 13 seconds? Brian Flores has a legitimate beef. Frazier does not!

[notacon]

I couldn't disagree more! We don't know why he took a "leave of absence" It's all speculation. My speculation is his contract was up and he wasn't happy with what the Bills offered to stay.

He failed in his first shot as HC. What's he done here that demands a 2nd shot? 13 seconds? Brian Flores has a legitimate beef. Frazier does not!
And I can't disagree with your disagreement more.

[sukie]

The 10 yards off the line when it’s 3rd and 5 or less was maddening. 10 seconds which is actually correct due to the kick, was when his career in Buffalo should have ended. Bend don’t break is bend don’t win. Pleasant man but that won’t even get you a side of blue cheese.

[Novacane]

Walking away because he didn't get a HC interview would pretty much guarantee he won't get one next round. Wanna hire a whiner? Makes no sense.

[justasportsfan]

Losing Frazier was very, very bad for the Bills.

There is little doubt that he took a leave because he was extremely disappointed in not even getting an interview for a HC job, which he deserves. There is absolutely a race problem the NFL has yet to deal worthy when it comes to coaching.

Too bad too many fickle Bills “fans” are too quick to **** on quality professionals within the organization.

Lol. He's pouting and so he leaves the bills?

[Chet]

Is this like remedial training for coaching basics, cause he sure needs it

[Chet]

Losing Frazier was very, very bad for the Bills.

There is little doubt that he took a leave because he was extremely disappointed in not even getting an interview for a HC job, which he deserves. There is absolutely a race problem the NFL has yet to deal worthy when it comes to coaching.

Too bad too many fickle Bills “fans” are too quick to **** on quality professionals within the organization.

:rofl:

[notacon]

Lol. He's pouting and so he leaves the bills?

:rofl: No.

What is more the case is so many Bills “fans” are “pouting".

[Novacane]

:rofl: No.

What is more the case is so many Bills “fans” are “pouting".

Pouting is when you're sad about something. Most of us see this is addition by subtraction! We're :dance:

[Woodman]

:gobills: what else is there :D

[daryls61]

Probably wanted to get out from underneath HCSM shadow.

[Mr. Pink]

It's amazing the hatred some have for Frazier or how the blame on everything is placed squarely at his feet.

Maybe this year will be eye opening to some of you.

This has always been McDermott's defense.

[sukie]

It's amazing the hatred some have for Frazier or how the blame on everything is placed squarely at his feet.

Maybe this year will be eye opening to some of you.

This has always been McDermott's defense.

If this is true then Frazier was our Biennemy. Won’t be missed and didn’t do anything of significance.

I don’t buy it. Did McD develop pussified D schemes in NC?

[notacon]

Pouting is when you're sad about something. Most of us see this is addition by subtraction! We're :dance:

No. “Pouting” from some Bills “fans” is a childish expression of displeasure because they don’t get exactly what they want all the time....as in.....the Bills did not win a Super Bowl last year, (:cry:) and did not do so, NOT because of the extremely well performing defense despite being hit with many incredibly destitute injuries, but because of the deficiencies of a sputtering mistake filled offense (which is the main reason we lost every game last year) but like a child want to place blame where it does not belongs.

[sukie]

No. “Pouting” from some Bills “fans” is a childish expression of displeasure because they don’t get exactly what they want all the time....as in.....the Bills did not win a Super Bowl last year, (:cry:) and did not do so, NOT because of the extremely well performing defense despite being hit with many incredibly destitute injuries, but because of the deficiencies of a sputtering mistake filled offense (which is the main reason we lost every game last year) but like a child want to place blame where it does not belongs.
Just put “the offense was solely responsible for losing all the games and it wasn’t the fault of the greatest defense ever.” As your signature. Save yourself time. Enjoy life more. You are welcome.

[Oaf]

13 seconds. I won't forget.

You must've forgotten this was on McD, who called timeouts before both plays and was telling everyone what to do. Wallace also said a miscomm btw him and Poyer played a big role on the second play.

[Woodman]

Just put “the offense was solely responsible for losing all the games and it wasn’t the fault of the greatest defense ever.” As your signature. Save yourself time. Enjoy life more. You are welcome.

yup! :cheers:

[notacon]

Just put “the offense was solely responsible for losing all the games and it wasn’t the fault of the greatest defense ever.” As your signature. Save yourself time. Enjoy life more. You are welcome.

Except I have never said that. Not even close. Especially the two concepts I bolded above. Which means your whole premise is simply bull****.


Why do you feel the need to misrepresent (read: lie) what I have written???

[sukie]

Except I have never said that. Not even close. Especially the two concepts I bolded above. Which means your whole premise is simply bull****.


Why do you feel the need to misrepresent (read: lie) what I have written???

Just helping you get to the point quickly without volumes of word salad paragraphs and the misuse of the bold function.

[sukie]

Especially last season, as I have been preaching for months with facts, the OFFENSE is what cost us every single loss and the OFFENSE is what was extremely frustrating....not the defense.


sorry I must have somehow misread the first bit

[notacon]

Especially last season, as I have been preaching for months with facts, the OFFENSE is what cost us every single loss and the OFFENSE is what was extremely frustrating....not the defense.


sorry I must have somehow misread the first bit

Jesus. It’s a comparison made in context that so much of the scuttle butt around here is ****ting on the defense. Yes, the offense cost us every single loss in comparison to the defense.

That is an undeniable truth. Do I really have to write that every single time because you don’t have the capacity to understand???

What is really dishonest is your premise that I have EVER said “...the greatest defense ever”.

You know you are engaging in hyperbole. How silly.

[sukie]

Nope. the signature suggestion would do that for you giving you more time to manscape and loofah.

[BillsFanCupp38]

He sucks

[Cali512]

Anyone remember Josh Allens first game? LAC, bills played extremely soft coverage the first half, MCD took over playcalling duties and we immediately went into the crowded prowl defense with different blitz variations. We continued that most of the following season also

The last couple years weve seen Fraziers defense creep in more and more to the point where we dont see the crowded defense much at all, except for the playoffs


athe last 3 playoff games weve given up 31, 27, 42 points

KC where they scored 24 points the next week

And with Miamis 3rd string QB where he was throwing to wide open receivers the whole game.

Weve been living for years off of dominating bad QBs. Weve had good wins vs Mahomes during the regular season, but aside from him, weve seen this team be completely un prepared for QBs like Zach Wilson, Skylar Thompson, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff

Weve also completely struggled vs the run late in seasons the last couple years. I dont think McD and Frazier saw eye to eye, because they both run completely opposite defenses

Look up Allens first game, the first half was Fraziers defense, second half is McDermotts. That will show all you need to know about their philosophies

[Chet]

If this is true then Frazier was our Biennemy. Won’t be missed and didn’t do anything of significance.

I don’t buy it. Did McD develop pussified D schemes in NC?
Winning post, and not really arguable

[Mr. Pink]

If this is true then Frazier was our Biennemy. Won’t be missed and didn’t do anything of significance.

I don’t buy it. Did McD develop pussified D schemes in NC?

Yeah.

McD's last year in Carolina as DC? 26th in points allowed, 21st in yards allowed. He was a DC for 8 years prior to coming here...4 of those years his teams were near the bottom of the league in points allowed. 2 of those 8 years his defenses were really good however. The other two meh.

In case you didn't know that McD wasn't exactly great overall as a DC...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/McDeSe0.htm

[justasportsfan]

It's amazing the hatred some have for Frazier or how the blame on everything is placed squarely at his feet.

Maybe this year will be eye opening to some of you.

This has always been McDermott's defense.

The lack of aggressive playcalling on gameday was Fraziers. The D under Frazier was good for regular season games. Come playoffs it wasn't good enough vs. elite teams especially KC. Some changes needed to be made and maybe Frazier didnt like them.

[notacon]

Nope. the signature suggestion would do that for you giving you more time to manscape and loofah.

Sorry...I don’t do “signatures” nor do I even allow any of those to show up in my settings.

[notacon]

Anyone remember Josh Allens first game? LAC, bills played extremely soft coverage the first half, MCD took over playcalling duties and we immediately went into the crowded prowl defense with different blitz variations. We continued that most of the following season also

The last couple years weve seen Fraziers defense creep in more and more to the point where we dont see the crowded defense much at all, except for the playoffs


athe last 3 playoff games weve given up 31, 27, 42 points

KC where they scored 24 points the next week

And with Miamis 3rd string QB where he was throwing to wide open receivers the whole game.

Weve been living for years off of dominating bad QBs. Weve had good wins vs Mahomes during the regular season, but aside from him, weve seen this team be completely un prepared for QBs like Zach Wilson, Skylar Thompson, Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff

Weve also completely struggled vs the run late in seasons the last couple years. I dont think McD and Frazier saw eye to eye, because they both run completely opposite defenses

Look up Allens first game, the first half was Fraziers defense, second half is McDermotts. That will show all you need to know about their philosophies
I don’t buy the cherry picking canard of “the last 3 playoff games weve [sic] given up 31, 27, 42 points“.

In 2022 playoffs the Bills allowed an average of 29 PTS/G. KC allowed 25 PTS/G.

But that was not the real difference.

In 2022 playoffs the Bills scored only 22 PTS/G. KC…29.2 PTS/G

Philly – 34.7 PTS/G.

The 2021 loss to KC in OT was an anomaly. Defenses did not really matter for most of that game, in particular, at the end of the 4th quarter and in OY. Does anyone believe that if the Bills got the coin toss they would have not won that game??!?!

Of course not. It was a track meet.

How many points a team allows, in and of itself, is irrelevant. What really matters is they score more than they allow….funny this should even have to be mentioned because it is the bedrock reality in all of sports.

If one team in the last three playoff games allows only 17, 10 & 14 points, but they score only 14, 7 & 13 respectively, what the hell does that matter?!?!? Of course…NOTHING.

Last year, the Bills failure to score more than 10 points against Cincy is why they lost. I have pointed out this fact many times, unfortunately some just don’t want to accept the glaring reality….

For the playoffs, since Since 2000 (including 2022) there have been 46 teams that have scored 10 or less points (excluding Super Bowls). Their record??

0-46

The last time a team scored 10 or less points in a playoff game and won??

1997. PITT 7 – NE 6.

The Super Bowl is even MORE stark….in ALL 56 Super Bowls, one ream has scored 10 or less points SIXTEEN times. Their record????...If you are paying attention you guessed it…..

0-16.

Is NE proud that in 1997 they held Pittsburgh to only 7 points??? Well….since they scored only 6, who gives a ****???

[Night Train]

Beane is the reason he's leaving.

He runs this team and spent 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders on DL he wishes to see play better. The "bend don't win" idea didn't work. Obviously told McDermott he needs to change the scheme or else.

I like my narrative over the others.

[sukie]

He stepped away intsead of being fired simple to head off the headline “Down goes Frazier”.

chew on THAT narrative.

[Bill Cody]

Beane is the reason he's leaving.

He runs this team and spent 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders on DL he wishes to see play better. The "bend don't win" idea didn't work. Obviously told McDermott he needs to change the scheme or else.

I like my narrative over the others.

I would be very surprised if McDermott does not have final say on his staff written into his contract. Or else what? He's fired? I don't think so. The lack of production from the D line picks is not on Frazier, that makes no sense. Those guys have been disappointing all on thier own. But we will see.

[Woodman]

The 10 yards off the line when it’s 3rd and 5 or less was maddening. 10 seconds which is actually correct due to the kick, was when his career in Buffalo should have ended. Bend don’t break is bend don’t win. Pleasant man but that won’t even get you a side of blue cheese.

19789

[notacon]

He stepped away intsead of being fired simple to head off the headline “Down goes Frazier”.

chew on THAT narrative.

One can “chew on THAT narrative” all they want.


Does not make it any more credible because there is zero evidence that it’s even close to being accurate.

[sukie]

Skurski seems to point out that it is reasonable speculation to think he was forced out. The timing of the sabbatical. The need for a year off when interested in a HC job (terrible look) and if you are tired, joining in on the coaching acceleration program shows lack of a need for a break.

walking away vs fired looks better to your next employer.

[Woodman]

walking away vs fired looks better to your next employer.

Does it?

Ok maybe in Portugal. :D

[Historian]

Beane is the reason he's leaving.

He runs this team and spent 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders on DL he wishes to see play better. The "bend don't win" idea didn't work. Obviously told McDermott he needs to change the scheme or else.

I like my narrative over the others.

I agree, Train.

His defenses kinda/sorta reminded me of Walt Corey's.

Bend, but don't break.

Rush, but don't blitz, as that will open up a hole.

Give up the short stuff in front of you, don't get burned long.


Then clamp down in the red zone.

This is a solid scheme in the regular season, playing against the Jets, the Browns, and the Lions, but as everyone knows, things amp up in the playoffs.

And that's where Buffalo continues to come up short.

I liked Fraiser, and I think a lot of successful teams have had former HCs do well as coordinators, but he is always going to be remembered for the 13 seconds.

And he should be.

[sukie]

10 seconds. That’s even worse. There were 3 seconds left to kick the FG

[Woodman]

Frazier gone as gone can be but absolutely NOT FORGOTTEN for all of us ....... unfortunately.

[Cali512]

Reports are that Frazier is trying to get back into coaching and has visited the packers and commanders while visiting the giants today

So he didnt take a "year off", like the initial narrative was


This mixed with all the reports coming out of buffalo saying "the defense will be geared towards a more attacking and aggressive defense", with mcdermott, when we know fraziers history of being a more conservative defense, shows that this was definitely closer to a "firing", than Frazier wanting a break

So notty, im pretty sure this proves our point that Frazier was fired, so lets embrace McDermotts D and acknowledge Fraziers defense wasnt providing the scheme that McDermott was trying to implement

[k-oneputt]

Cmon we all know what happened here, well except for one poster here, he was nicely fired.
This was the best offseason move.

[swiper]

Cmon we all know what happened here, well except for one poster here, he was nicely fired.
This was the best offseason move.

We'll see. I hope McDermott makes them more aggressive.

[Woodman]

Reports are that Frazier is trying to get back into coaching and has visited the packers and commanders while visiting the giants today

So he didnt take a "year off", like the initial narrative was


This mixed with all the reports coming out of buffalo saying "the defense will be geared towards a more attacking and aggressive defense", with mcdermott, when we know fraziers history of being a more conservative defense, shows that this was definitely closer to a "firing", than Frazier wanting a break

So notty, im pretty sure this proves our point that Frazier was fired, so lets embrace McDermotts D and acknowledge Fraziers defense wasnt providing the scheme that McDermott was trying to implement

[Chet]

Cmon we all know what happened here, well except for one poster here, he was nicely fired.
This was the best offseason move.
Yep, anyone with a functioning brain knows this.

How about we let this thread die till it hits the next page so he’s both gone AND forgotten. That seems like a happy ending.

…and yes, I realize the irony of bumping this just to say that

[swiper]

notaclue is proven wrong once again. Yawn.

[Woodman]

please merge.

[Woodman]

can we merge these two threads about Frazier?

[notacon]

notacon is proven wrong once again. Yawn.

What exactly have I been “proven wrong” about??

Provide actual quotes (with links so we can see the full context) of what I wrote that was “wrong” and then an explanation that “proves” I was wrong and why.


Unless this is the usual bullying bloviating nonsense that sounds a lot like what a certain Orange Man does all the time.

Are you going to run and hide or put some substance behind your bluster???

[Cali512]

What exactly have I been “proven wrong” about??

Provide actual quotes (with links so we can see the full context) of what I wrote that was “wrong” and then an explanation that “proves” I was wrong and why.


Unless this is the usual bullying bloviating nonsense that sounds a lot like what a certain Orange Man does all the time.

Are you going to run and hide or put some substance behind your bluster???



Your orange?

[notacon]

Reports are that Frazier is trying to get back into coaching and has visited the packers and commanders while visiting the giants today

So he didnt take a "year off", like the initial narrative was


This mixed with all the reports coming out of buffalo saying "the defense will be geared towards a more attacking and aggressive defense", with mcdermott, when we know fraziers history of being a more conservative defense, shows that this was definitely closer to a "firing", than Frazier wanting a break

So notty, im pretty sure this proves our point that Frazier was fired, so lets embrace McDermotts D and acknowledge Fraziers defense wasnt providing the scheme that McDermott was trying to implement

How does this “prove” that he “didnt [sic] take a year off”?? And how does this prove that Frazier was fired???

The short answer….it doesn’t. Not in the least.

Unfortunately, you seem to be blowing out of proportion both what is happening here and especially what it means.

Yes, Frazier’s intention was always “getting back into coaching”. He’s said so several times......preferably for a head coaching position and after he took a year off.

Looks like I have to explain the what is really going once again….using the facts that are knowable instead of making wild assumptions from half-baked logic based on misunderstood snippets of information.

I have to warn you that intelligent concepts take more than a few bumper sticker slogans to explain complex issues thoroughly, so this post necessarily has more words than the “Cliff Notes” crowd can handle. That’s their problem and why “half-baked logic based on misunderstood snippets of information” is their badge of dishonor.

Frazier IS “trying to get back into coaching” and has said that many times since he announced his one-year step back. That has ALWAYS been the stated goal and WHY he said he was not retiring but taking a leave from coaching. That is no secret!!!

So that makes your initial revelation “Frazier is trying to get back into coaching” rather nonsensical.

With two extremely critical caveats.

#1. that it is much preferable to do so (and he has not specifically said if this is a deal breaker, but it sure sounds like it) as a HEAD COACH. Or, at the least in a “different capacity”
The obvious foundation of his frustration is, like many Black coaches in the NFL, of being passed over for the HC job.

#2. His return would be after taking a year off.


What these visits do NOT do (in any way) is “prove your point” that he was “fired” OR prove that he is not taking a year off are the recent visit with three teams.

Why???

Well, that would take one actually paying attention to what has gone on recently, what Frazier has said (in public and on the record) in addition to the NFL’s dedicated (and very public) effort to encourage Black coaches to be hired as head coaches and other high-level position on NFL teams.

As was reported quite widely, during the recent NFL Owners meetings, they conducted, for the second year in a row, the “Coach Accelerator” program. It was announced by the NFL on May 17, 2023….

NFL coach accelerator program to take place during Spring League Meeting in Minneapolis (https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-coach-accelerator-program-to-take-place-during-spring-league-meeting-in-minn)



In continuation of the NFL's commitment to promoting greater diversity across the NFL, the league announced plans to host a Coach Accelerator on May 21-23 at the Spring League Meeting in Minneapolis. The Spring Accelerator follows the inaugural Coach and Front Office Accelerator (https://www.nfl.com/news/inaugural-nfl-coach-and-front-office-accelerator-program-slated-for-spring-leagu) and the Front Office Accelerator hosted at previous league meetings in 2022.


The Coach Accelerator aims to increase exposure between owners, executives, and diverse coaching talent, providing ample opportunity to develop and build upon their relationships. In a change to the nomination process this year, clubs were able to nominate those from outside of their organization.


The 40 participants this year are attending based on their high potential to be considered for a head coach position in the future. Sixteen of the participants will be returning from the May 2022 Accelerator cohort.

In addition to networking, further development of the participants is a critical component of the accelerator, with curated content sessions scheduled that will further engage each participant on the advancement of their executive leadership skills and business acumen.



The 40 Black coach participants included 37 NFL coaches that are currently employed by a NFL team, including Kelly Skipper, the current RB coach for the Bills.

The other three were not presently employed by a NFL team, but have extensive NFL coaching experience.

Pep Hamilton (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pep_Hamilton)

Kris Richard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kris_Richard)

Leslie Frazier (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_Frazier)

Obviously, every one of the 40 Black coaches that attended want to progress up the ranks in the NFL and the three that are not presently on a team are “trying to get back into coaching”.

The idea that since Frazier is visiting three teams in June that he is NOT going to take that year off is rather silly.

Why??? NFL teams do not hire coaches in June….their staff is set, and they are conducing OTA’s and getting ready for training camp and the upcoming season.

The cake is almost fully baked in June for every NFL team.

For Frazier, who has stated his desire to be a HC, he is not pining for another DC job. In any event, every single team in the NFL already has a DC in place….except one. The Bills.

In fact, the dedicated effort by the NFL to have more Black HC’s is based on “increased exposure between owners, executives, and diverse coaching talent, providing ample opportunity to develop and build upon their relationships.”.

That is what the “Rooney Rule (https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/how-effective-is-the-nfls-rooney-rule-and-why-does-it-exist/367068/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20Rooney%20Rule,other%20positions%20and%20more%20provisions.)" is all about. The hope that qualified Black coaches interacting via interviews with (almost) all white owners would foster relationships for future openings, or when owners get together and they talk about the interaction they had with this or that Black coach.

That furthering of “increased exposure” to owners to qualified Black coaches is what the recent team visits by Frazier is all about.

Plus the fact that the INTENTION for Frazier to conduct these visits were reported a week after the Coach Accelerator program (and a week before his now reported “visits” 5/30/23) as was Frazier’s hope to “interview for head coaching jobs in 2024 (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/30/leslie-frazier-hopefully-ill-have-a-chance-to-interview-for-head-coaching-jobs-in-2024/)”


The report by Albert Breer including an interview with Frazier tells the story (which disproves your half-baked theory)….


How Roger Goodell Persuaded NFL Owners to Change the Kickoff Rule (https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/30/roger-goodell-nfl-kickoff-rule-change-takeaways)




Frazier’s in an interesting place right now. He decided to take this year off after serving as Sean McDermott’s defensive coordinator for the past six years in Buffalo and, as you’d think, as he settled into spending more time at his offseason home in California, it wasn’t the most comfortable thing at first.

Frazier has spent his past 35 years, more than half of his life, coaching football.

“Man, early on, this is the third month. So for me, that first month or two, it was hard, man, just trying to find my rhythm and getting used to having free time,” Frazier says. “It’s been so long, more than 30 years, since I haven’t been on a schedule this time of the year. So it was a challenge just trying to figure out what to do with myself. But over the last three or four weeks, things have gotten a lot better as far as me being organized in how I want to spend my time. And I’m thankful for it, just very, very thankful that I can do this.

“I’m so grateful that I’m in a position where we can step back and not be sweating about finances. So, just very thankful.”

He’ll start to put the free time to use this week in heading out to visit old coaching friends, with his focus on using that experience, and experiences like the accelerator, to get in the mix for jobs in January.

Maybe it happens for him. Maybe it doesn’t. Either way, he’s at peace with where he’s at.

“I really feel good about where I am,” he says. “I think my reasons for stepping away were the right reasons; I feel good about it. It just gives me a chance to see things from a different perspective, get recharged again and reenergized. I’m gonna go watch some teams in their OTAs, will probably do the same thing again in training camp, go visit some clubs as well. And then in the fall, I will really begin to take a look at what’s happening around the league, make sure I stay up on any new trends, anything that’s changing.

“And, hopefully, an owner will give me a chance to talk to him about an opportunity. If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good. My goal is to be a head coach. I know I don’t have much time left, I’m at an age [64] where it seems like owners are going younger and younger, but I think I have some things I can bring to the table. We’ll see what happens.”



Yeah…Frazier is doing exactly what he said he was going to do….”go watch some teams in their OTAs, will probably do the same thing again in training camp, go visit some clubs as well” all in a dedicated effort to achieve “my goal is to be a head coach” and positioning himself for a HC job in 2024.

So, no, what has been happening with Frazier does NOT, in any way, shape or form “prove” that he was “fired” or ESPECIALLY that he “didnt [sic] take a "year off".

He could be offered a HC job during the season when the inevitable firing of a HC during the seasons takes place….four in 2022, two in 2021, three in 2020…etc…etc… and that would obviously make his vow to sit out one year moot.

But, the facts belie your jumping to conclusions.

[sukie]

Nottie, why wouldn’t Frazier just quit then? Why the dramatic take a year off crap. Is he under contract and taking a leave of absence? Was Buffalo holding the spot?

Frazier will get plenty of interviews in the years to come. No job but interviews.

Maybe an interim gig and then with luck…. Who knows. The accelerator program means nothing, you copy and pasted word salad. Thanks for the bold bits.

[Typ0]

I spoke in another thread about this situation before it happened. Fire McDermott probably or the Fire Frazier thread--suggested they would all sit down and figure it out together and the owner had a big role in that.

What we have seen transpire is the result of the above happening. They decided the team needed to find some new thinking. And they are all men they can sit there and talk about how to help protect Frazier from being a scapegoat for anything. He doesn't need that **** just because he finds himself in a situation that needs to find a different dynamic and he's the most logical place to make a change.

The head coach is next if there aren't results. It's just a matter of having a lot of $$$ and effort tied up right now and needing the mix to render different results--which means shaking up the mix.

I bet McDermott is pissed off. Can't wait to see what he comes up with when he's pissed off and not just riding a bull**** rollercoaster which is what he was on last season.
As far as Frazier interviewing for head coaching jobs consider from his perspective he's boxed into a corner on that one because that is his goal and he doesn't want to not interview and miss that opportunity even if he really wants a year off.

Everything we are talking about here is very complicated and involves a lot of people all of whom have their own perspectives. Wouldn't be surprised if Frazier gets hired as a head coach and McDermott suddenly hires a defensive coordinator or any combination of those things happening.

[jamze132]

Anyone who thinks he wasn’t essentially fired is just delusional. He did not just decide to take some time off from coaching…lol

Bills wanted to tweak the defense philosophy and he refused to bend…like his defenses. Pun intended.

[Jeff1220]

so lets embrace McDermotts D
:laughing:

[justasportsfan]

from someone who played under McD as a dc at panthers and Frazier here in BUF.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nxo3_gSPly8" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[notacon]

Nottie, why wouldn’t Frazier just quit then? Why the dramatic take a year off crap. Is he under contract and taking a leave of absence? Was Buffalo holding the spot?

Frazier will get plenty of interviews in the years to come. No job but interviews.

Maybe an interim gig and then with luck…. Who knows. The accelerator program means nothing, you copy and pasted word salad. Thanks for the bold bits.

Frazier has said why. You just don’t want to listen to him.

[sukie]

Frazier gave an excuse for no longer being employed.

[notacon]

I spoke in another thread about this situation before it happened. Fire McDermott probably or the Fire Frazier thread--suggested they would all sit down and figure it out together and the owner had a big role in that.

What we have seen transpire is the result of the above happening. They decided the team needed to find some new thinking. And they are all men they can sit there and talk about how to help protect Frazier from being a scapegoat for anything. He doesn't need that **** just because he finds himself in a situation that needs to find a different dynamic and he's the most logical place to make a change.

The head coach is next if there aren't results. It's just a matter of having a lot of $$$ and effort tied up right now and needing the mix to render different results--which means shaking up the mix.

I bet McDermott is pissed off. Can't wait to see what he comes up with when he's pissed off and not just riding a bull**** rollercoaster which is what he was on last season.
As far as Frazier interviewing for head coaching jobs consider from his perspective he's boxed into a corner on that one because that is his goal and he doesn't want to not interview and miss that opportunity even if he really wants a year off.

Everything we are talking about here is very complicated and involves a lot of people all of whom have their own perspectives. Wouldn't be surprised if Frazier gets hired as a head coach and McDermott suddenly hires a defensive coordinator or any combination of those things happening.
There is zero evidence that most of this is true. (Although I do agree with this: “Wouldn't be surprised if Frazier gets hired as a head coach and McDermott suddenly hires a defensive coordinator or any combination of those things happening.”)

I already spoke about this in another thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263160-Bills-Mafia-prepared-for-life-after-Tremaine-Edmunds?p=5023109&viewfull=1#post5023109) and nothing has changed to refute the credibility of what I wrote.

Every indication is that the story that Frazier decided to take a year off, and why, is the by far the most likely. Extremely close to the truth.

The idea of "Fire McDermott probably or the Fire Frazier” is inactive of the “fickle fan” that Tim Graham spoke about (quoted in the link above) who accurately opines that “much of the fan reaction (to Frazier taking a leave) was pathetic (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/)”

[notacon]

Anyone who thinks he wasn’t essentially fired is just delusional. He did not just decide to take some time off from coaching…lol

Bills wanted to tweak the defense philosophy and he refused to bend…like his defenses. Pun intended.

:rofl: Actually, the OPPOSITE is probably true.

As I wrote in another thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263160-Bills-Mafia-prepared-for-life-after-Tremaine-Edmunds?p=5023109&viewfull=1#post5023109)....


the idea that Frazier was pushed out, or left because of the phantom idea that defensive play calling was being taken away...I doubt VERY MUCH and there is zero evidence of that....except in the musings on ill informed “fans” guessing.

The upshot is that a lot of Bills “fans” suck. They don’t deserve an elite team.

[sukie]

Yeah....the assistant coach who is “embarrassed” (probably more pissed off than embarrassed) is talking (disgustingly so) directly to those “people” who may have “been calling for McD to take play-calling away from him”

Another example of some “fans” not knowing the first clue what they are talking about (in respect to what goes on within the Bills organization) in order to **** on a Bills coach.

how is paragraph 1 lead to number 2 AND show any credibility? Joe B (not a coaching or front office insider) hinted… or speculated like the rest of us.

hinting speculation is not credible.

but feel free to link yourself at will. It’s a soothing blue color.

(is self linking like “self manipulation”?

[notacon]

from someone who played under McD as a dc at panthers and Frazier here in BUF.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nxo3_gSPly8" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

Yeah....I saw that too.

The context of what Klein said was in relation to his (Klein’s) experience with McDermott in Carolina.

He also said that coaches evolve and grow and change.

The “we’ll be more aggrieve this year” is the kind of talk we always hear in Mini-camp and Training camp.

It’s hand-in-hand with....’(fill in the blank with a player) is in the best shape of his life’

The idea that (as Cali opined (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5027332&viewfull=1#post5027332)...and I shot down with pin point accuracy) that “...im pretty sure this proves our point that Frazier was fired” (it does not in any way, shape or form)...."so lets embrace McDermotts D and acknowledge Fraziers defense wasnt providing the scheme that McDermott was trying to implement”

Is not supported by the facts.

Again, Tim Graham addressed this little piece of illogic and dismissed it out of hand quite easily (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/)....



Sweeping changes aren’t coming to Buffalo’s defensive schemes, which have thrived for several years despite consecutive postseason collapses.<o:p></o:p>
The Bills this week expressed little concern about making a smooth transition because there won’t be much of one.

<o:p></o:p>
Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires.

<o:p></o:p>
That’s why the Bills still might not have staged a search for Frazier’s replacement even if he’d informed them of his plans immediately after the season. Maybe they would have interviewed Vic Fangio and Steve Wilks, but my sense is there would not have been a hot pursuit of anybody outside the organization.<o:p></o:p>


What I do think is happening (and I believe that if FRAZIER did not decide ON HIS OWN, to take a leave from coaching, there would have been NO change to him being DC or the defensive pays calling)....McDermott sees this as an opportunity to “roll up his sleeves” and get back into the nitty gritty of play calling.

HIS system has been put in place and executed extremely well in the six years he and Frazier have been together. (Don't forget that Frazier was not only DC but assisant head coach for three seasons...2020-2022), and it would have been counterproductive to bring in another DC (or have anyone else take on defensive play calling)....so the best option is to provide continuity with what has been doing well, and just call the plays himself.

Will his play calling be “more aggressive”??? I guess that depends on how you define “more aggressive”. Much of that depends on personnel.


Last season, with so many injuries with the Bills having three of their best defenders, Tre’ White, Von Miller and Micah Hyde missing so many games....Tre’ played in only 8 games (and was not 100% in most of those) Von Miller played in 10.5 games and Hyde played in only 2. Not getting into the injuries on the D-Line and CB), it affects the defense.

Despite all the challenges, the Bills defense was still #2 in least points allowed. Best not fool yourself (in general....not specially you) into thinking that the defense was so terrible and in dire need of big changes. It wasn't and it doesn’t


With Von Miller (hopefully) coming back relatively early in the sedans, Rousseau with another year under his belt, and the HUGE addition of Hyde and Poyer (hopefully) not having as many injuries as he did last year and Tre’ White starting the seasons at 100%, yes, that gives McDermott a much stronger hand to play more “aggressively”

I don’t buy the idea Frazier was doing anything that McDermott did not fully approve of.

[sukie]

A defensive player commented , when McD was taking over the DC duties … “it will be nice to have a familiar face joining us in the meeting rooms.”

[justasportsfan]

Yeah....I saw that too.

The context of what Klein said was in relation to his (Klein’s) experience with McDermott in Carolina.

He also said that coaches evolve and grow and change.

The “we’ll be more aggrieve this year” is the kind of talk we always hear in Mini-camp and Training camp.

It’s hand-in-hand with....’(fill in the blank with a player) is in the best shape of his life’

The idea that (as Cali opined (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5027332&viewfull=1#post5027332)...and I shot down with pin point accuracy) that “...im pretty sure this proves our point that Frazier was fired” (it does not in any way, shape or form)...."so lets embrace McDermotts D and acknowledge Fraziers defense wasnt providing the scheme that McDermott was trying to implement”

Is not supported by the facts.

Again, Tim Graham addressed this little piece of illogic and dismissed it out of hand quite easily (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/)....



What I do think is happening (and I believe that if FRAZIER did not decide ON HIS OWN, to take a leave from coaching, there would have been NO change to him being DC or the defensive pays calling)....McDermott sees this as an opportunity to “roll up his sleeves” and get back into the nitty gritty of play calling.

HIS system has been put in place and executed extremely well in the six years he and Frazier have been together. (Don't forget that Frazier was not only DC but assisant head coach for three seasons...2020-2022), and it would have been counterproductive to bring in another DC (or have anyone else take on defensive play calling)....so the best option is to provide continuity with what has been doing well, and just call the plays himself.

Will his play calling be “more aggressive”??? I guess that depends on how you define “more aggressive”. Much of that depends on personnel.


Last season, with so many injuries with the Bills having three of their best defenders, Tre’ White, Von Miller and Micah Hyde missing so many games....Tre’ played in only 8 games (and was not 100% in most of those) Von Miller played in 10.5 games and Hyde played in only 2. Not getting into the injuries on the D-Line and CB), it affects the defense.

Despite all the challenges, the Bills defense was still #2 in least points allowed. Best not fool yourself (in general....not specially you) into thinking that the defense was so terrible and in dire need of big changes. It wasn't and it doesn’t


With Von Miller (hopefully) coming back relatively early in the sedans, Rousseau with another year under his belt, and the HUGE addition of Hyde and Poyer (hopefully) not having as many injuries as he did last year and Tre’ White starting the seasons at 100%, yes, that gives McDermott a much stronger hand to play more “aggressively”

I don’t buy the idea Frazier was doing anything that McDermott did not fully approve of.

I believe Frazier was soft when he had to be aggressive.

McD has a couple of years left to prove that he can get this team to the sb and i am all for him calling the shots at D on gameday . Its his job thats on the line so he can bet on himself.

[notacon]

I believe Frazier was soft when he had to be aggressive.

McD has a couple of years left to prove that he can get this team to the sb and i am all for him calling the shots at D on gameday . Its his job thats on the line so he can bet on himself.

That may be true...a matter of opinion. My opinion is that if you say that "Frazier was soft when he had to be aggressive” it’s the same as saying that ‘McDermott was soft when he had to be aggressive’


What Tim Graham said rings so true....

“Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires."

The point is that the idea that Frazier was “fired” is not supported by any evidence, and the crapping on him by some Bills “fans” is silly, but not unexpected.

The M.O. for too many “fans” here is to **** on the Bills as much as they can.

[Typ0]

There is zero evidence that most of this is true. (Although I do agree with this: “Wouldn't be surprised if Frazier gets hired as a head coach and McDermott suddenly hires a defensive coordinator or any combination of those things happening.”)



Every indication is that the story that Frazier decided to take a year off, and why, is the by far the most likely. Extremely close to the truth.



Then why is he interviewing for jobs and how does that not classify as evidence?

[justasportsfan]

That may be true...a matter of opinion. My opinion is that if you say that "Frazier was soft when he had to be aggressive” it’s the same as saying that ‘McDermott was soft when he had to be aggressive’


What Tim Graham said rings so true....

“Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires."

The point is that the idea that Frazier was “fired” is not supported by any evidence, and the crapping on him by some Bills “fans” is silly, but not unexpected.

The M.O. for too many “fans” here is to **** on the Bills as much as they can.

Not necessarily. Even though it may be McDs defensive ideology, he didn't call the alignments on each snap. He didn't call when it was time to blitz or not.

[swiper]

Then why is he interviewing for jobs and how does that not classify as evidence?

Don't engage in the idiocy. He was clearly fired. Proof is he's interviewing with other teams.

[YardRat]

He probably wasn't technically fired because the Bills would forfeit any draft pick compensation if he did get a job. The way they handled it benefits both sides.

[Novacane]

Word it anyway you want. The Bills did not want him!

[jamze132]

:rofl: Actually, the OPPOSITE is probably true.

As I wrote in another thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263160-Bills-Mafia-prepared-for-life-after-Tremaine-Edmunds?p=5023109&viewfull=1#post5023109)....


the idea that Frazier was pushed out, or left because of the phantom idea that defensive play calling was being taken away...I doubt VERY MUCH and there is zero evidence of that....except in the musings on ill informed “fans” guessing.

The upshot is that a lot of Bills “fans” suck. They don’t deserve an elite team.

I didn’t say his play calling was being taken away, I’m saying he refused to change his style to be in line with what Beane and McDermott want to do moving forward.

[notacon]

Then why is he interviewing for jobs and how does that not classify as evidence?

I already explained it in great detail (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5027780&viewfull=1#post5027780).

There is no evidence at he was “interviewing for jobs”.

Especially considering (like I mentioned) that coaching staffs are pretty much cast in stone by June.

“The cake is almost fully baked in June for every NFL team.

For Frazier, who has stated his desire to be a HC, he is not pining for another DC job. In any event, every single team in the NFL already has a DC in place….except one. The Bills."

He was doing exactly what he said he was going to do (https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/30/roger-goodell-nfl-kickoff-rule-change-takeaways).....

“I really feel good about where I am,” he says. “I think my reasons for stepping away were the right reasons; I feel good about it. It just gives me a chance to see things from a different perspective, get recharged again and reenergized. I’m gonna go watch some teams in their OTAs, will probably do the same thing again in training camp, go visit some clubs as well. And then in the fall, I will really begin to take a look at what’s happening around the league, make sure I stay up on any new trends, anything that’s changing.

This is not rocket science. It is obvious what he is doing.....trying to get interviews and secure a had coach job in the NFL for 2024.

Interviews for coaching jobs (in particular head coaching jobs) do not take place until after the regular seasons is over (except in-season firings).

[notacon]

Word it anyway you want. The Bills did not want him!

There is zero evidence this is accurate.

In fact, the opposite is almost assuredly what happened (https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/insider-sheds-new-light-on-bills-dc-leslie-fraziers-mysterious-exit/). It is common knowledge that if Frazier wanted to stay, he would still be the Bills DC. Brandon Beane “succinctly said the job would have remained with Frazier”

He did not couch it with “I really don’t want to get into that” dodge.

So, to believe your incorrect theory that comes from literally zero knowledge, you are accusing Brandon Beane of being a bald faced liar.

Despite the fact that he has been a “straight shooter” for all his team as Bills GM.

[notacon]

I didn’t say his play calling was being taken away, I’m saying he refused to change his style to be in line with what Beane and McDermott want to do moving forward.

You said that "Anyone who thinks he wasn’t essentially fired is just delusional”...THAT is “delusional”

As is the statement that "he refused to change his style to be in line with what Beane and McDermott want to do moving forward”.


There is ZERO evidence of that. You are conjuring that up out of thin air.

The fact is that he Frazier was NOT fired, and he would still be DC if he choose to stay in that position.

ALL the evidence supports that. NONE of the evidence supports your ignorant (as in having no knowledge, just suppositions based on your own bias) theory.

[sukie]

Having someone “step away” is what one does to have no evidence of a firing taking place. It’s a win win for both parties.

[Novacane]

There is zero evidence this is accurate.

In fact, the opposite is almost assuredly what happened (https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/insider-sheds-new-light-on-bills-dc-leslie-fraziers-mysterious-exit/). It is common knowledge that if Frazier wanted to stay, he would still be the Bills DC. Brandon Beane “succinctly said the job would have remained with Frazier”

He did not couch it with “I really don’t want to get into that” dodge.

So, to believe your incorrect theory that comes from literally zero knowledge, you are accusing Brandon Beane of being a bald faced liar.

Despite the fact that he has been a “straight shooter” for all his team as Bills GM.



Is Joe B really that naive? My gawd.

[Mace]

Having someone “step away” is what one does to have no evidence of a firing taking place. It’s a win win for both parties.

It's also evidence of a guy stepping away. Beane flatly said he's got his job if he wants it and what kind of fiasco could that be if no one wants Frazier and he says ok....I guess I'm back. They just gave him his shot.

[sukie]

Is Joe B really that naive? My gawd.
Makes ya wonder if he stepped away from WKBW or was kinda asked to leave.

[jamze132]

You said that "Anyone who thinks he wasn’t essentially fired is just delusional”...THAT is “delusional”

As is the statement that "he refused to change his style to be in line with what Beane and McDermott want to do moving forward”.


There is ZERO evidence of that. You are conjuring that up out of thin air.

The fact is that he Frazier was NOT fired, and he would still be DC if he choose to stay in that position.

ALL the evidence supports that. NONE of the evidence supports your ignorant (as in having no knowledge, just suppositions based on your own bias) theory.

You see why we call you Naivecon?

[Night Train]

The Beating The Dead Horse Society called to say you're all doing a good job. :deadhorse

[Woodman]

Not necessarily. Even though it may be McDs defensive ideology, he didn't call the alignments on each snap. He didn't call when it was time to blitz or not.

[Woodman]

I believe Frazier was soft when he had to be aggressive.

McD has a couple of years left to prove that he can get this team to the sb and i am all for him calling the shots at D on gameday . Its his job thats on the line so he can bet on himself.

:cheers:

[notacon]

You see why we call you Naivecon?

:rofl: So, with literally ZERO evidence to support your doubtful premise and you want to call ME “naive”?!?!? :rofl:

[sukie]

:rofl: So, with literally ZERO evidence to support your doubtful premise and you want to call ME “naive”?!?!? :rofl:
Appeal to authority only to find here say speculation and opinion is not evidence. Only Frazier ,MkD and Beane and perhaps Terry know what really transpired.

look we Al have opinions… most of us have our own opinions to boot. No one is wrong with an opinion.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Appeal to authority only to find here say speculation and opinion is not evidence. Only Frazier ,MkD and Beane and perhaps Terry know what really transpired.

look we Al have opinions… most of us have our own opinions to boot. No one is wrong with an opinion.

But if my opinion is that you're wrong about that, we now have us a paradox! Lol

[sukie]

But if my opinion is that you're wrong about that, we now have us a paradox! Lol

but at least it’s your opinion… as wrong as it might be.

[Typ0]

Appeal to authority only to find here say speculation and opinion is not evidence. Only Frazier ,MkD and Beane and perhaps Terry know what really transpired.

look we Al have opinions… most of us have our own opinions to boot. No one is wrong with an opinion.

Perhaps the most profound thing Copernicus pointed out to us was "totally incorrect opinions ought to be avoided". At times it is the distance from reality of the opinion that deems it an unfortunate opinion to have. Man has thought he were at the center of the universe a very long time. Since his first sight.

They persecuted Copernicus for being right.

[swiper]

https://advanced-television.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/frasier-small-e1614271957811.jpg

[notacon]

Appeal to authority only to find here say speculation and opinion is not evidence. Only Frazier ,MkD and Beane and perhaps Terry know what really transpired.

look we Al have opinions… most of us have our own opinions to boot. No one is wrong with an opinion.

I agree that, like buttholes, everyone has an opinion. But, also like butt holes, some opinions stink a lot more than others.

There is ample evidence that not only was Frazier NOT fired, but he would have had his same coaching position in 2023 if he choose to. There is ZERO evidence supporting the opposite...that he was fired.

The evidence is that both the Bills (Beane) AND Frazier have said this, and several credible writers and “insiders” have supported this is what actually happened.

ALL of the “speculation” is from those that want to **** on Frazier. Not surprisingly, much of it is from the same people that have been ****ting on him for at at least the past year or two.

Do you, or ANYONE else here, know Frazier, Beane, McDermott of ANY Bills player personally???? Does anyone here have any of their cell phone numbers???? Would any of them know you????

Does anyone here have access to the Bills locker room? And talked to ANY players or coaches (on a personal level...EVER)??? Does any Bills player and coach know ANYONE here by name, or sight??? Does anyone here have press access to any press conference???

I don’t have to wait for an answer. We all know what the answer is.

Here is another reaction to the off base speculation from those that have a bug up their ass for Frazier.

I got to know Sal Capaccio from the Bill Range. We even had some private communication. He is now a Bills beat reporter for WGR radio. I trust him, respect him and value his opinions (like other sports writers, exponentially more than ANY poster here).


This was his reaction to a Bill “fan” that reacted to ESPN’s Rosina Anderson who reported that Frazier was visiting (NOT interviewing, VISITING) some NFL teams....just like Frazier said he was going to do when interviewed during the NFL’s Accelerator Program....


<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1664270896339775490&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=a8191c3be869ba64bdcc1fd646f574db91672d2e&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1664270896339775490" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 321px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The Bills fan reaction and directed question to Sal...


<iframe id="twitter-widget-1" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-1&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1665765729206153216&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=a8191c3be869ba64bdcc1fd646f574db91672d2e&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1665765729206153216" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 451px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And this is how Sal responded.....


<iframe id="twitter-widget-2" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-2&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 va2llX2V4cGlyYXRpb24iOnsiYnVja2V0IjoxMjA5NjAwLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X3Nob3dfYmlyZHdhdGNoX3Bpdm90c19lbmFibGVkIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19kdXBsaWNhdGVfc2NyaWJlc190b19zZXR0aW5ncyI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdXNlX3Byb2ZpbGVfaW1hZ2Vfc2hhcGVfZW5hYmxlZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdmlkZW9faGxzX2R5bmFtaWNfbWFuaWZlc3RzXzE1MDgyIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRydWVfYml0cmF0ZSIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfbGVnYWN5X3RpbWVsaW5lX3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnR ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1665766889421676546&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=a8191c3be869ba64bdcc1fd646f574db91672d2e&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1665766889421676546" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 431px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Sal is too classy to say that the suggestion of the question (doubting Frazier’s sincerity and truthfulness) is ****ing stupid and absurd, and WAY off base.

Yeah...I already posted several well informed sports media writer’s reaction and reporting on Frazier’s stepping away from coaching.

Not one informed “insider” has said anything besides supporting what both Brandon Beane and Frazier has said happen.

Certainly NO well informed insider has put forth the “opinion” that Frazier was “fired”.

So, yeah, the opinions that say he WAS (and doubt the word of Frazier (and Beane) on his taking year off, with the goal of becoming a head coach, stink to high heaven.<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe>

[Novacane]

Whatever. He's gone and the Bills are a better team because of it.

[Skooby]

Frazier got outcoached every playoff game except NE, his absence is a huge plus. Also, how many HC vacancies did he interview for ?? There's a reason behind that we can't see.

[notacon]

Whatever. He's gone and the Bills are a better team because of it.

I doubt that very much.

[sukie]

I doubt that very much.

after the Bills flop vs Bengals, the sacrificial lamb was the safeties coach… shortly after they hire Holcomb who was interim DC in Carolina to a made up position. THEN Frazier, who openly desired a head coaching gif the off-season before, decided to walk away from football. Not a good look for potential employers.

if you would like an appeal to authority, here’s a link.

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/frazier-s-exit-doesn-t-pass-the-sniff-test/article_bb6b04e1-728e-5aaf-90f5-4c10252813dc.html

[swiper]

after the Bills flop vs Bengals, the sacrificial lamb was the safeties coach… shortly after they hire Holcomb who was interim DC in Carolina to a made up position. THEN Frazier, who openly desired a head coaching gif the off-season before, decided to walk away from football. Not a good look for potential employers.

if you would like an appeal to authority, here’s a link.

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/frazier-s-exit-doesn-t-pass-the-sniff-test/article_bb6b04e1-728e-5aaf-90f5-4c10252813dc.html

Yes. The Holcomb hire was the glowing sign that they were moving away from Frazier. Anyone who cannot see that he was fired clearly has their head in the sand (see the person your conversing with). The Bills grew tired of his defense. And he vocalized the desire to be a head coach. No one would touch him. And the Bills, after two failed play-off runs grew tired of being the NFL nice guys to Leslie. The time line doesn't lie.

[notacon]

after the Bills flop vs Bengals, the sacrificial lamb was the safeties coach… shortly after they hire Holcomb who was interim DC in Carolina to a made up position. THEN Frazier, who openly desired a head coaching gif the off-season before, decided to walk away from football. Not a good look for potential employers.

if you would like an appeal to authority, here’s a link.

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/frazier-s-exit-doesn-t-pass-the-sniff-test/article_bb6b04e1-728e-5aaf-90f5-4c10252813dc.html

A sports writer for the Olean Times Herald???? Circulation 11,212?!?!? An “authority”!?!!? :rofl:

Gee...how much did you have to scour google to find this obscure piece???

Have you ever been to Olean, NY???

I have. I used to have a dealer there that I (reluctantly) called on from time to time. Blumenthal’s Camera store was dying when I started trying to get a few bucks of business from them in the early 90’s. They closed their doors for good over 20 years ago (https://www.oleantimesherald.com/archives/in-focus-will-be-second-spinoff-of-blumenthal-s/article_b5c8fb27-f2bd-529a-aae9-91998cf794e6.html). Not surprising for a dying small town.

BTW...The Athletic is owned and operated by the NY Times. In 2019, when they were an independent online publication, their paid subscription base was over 600,000.

Now with the NY Times they enjoy a paid circulation of 9,330,000. 8,590,000 are paid subscribers to their digital only content. 740,000 are print subscriptions.

Like I said...."like buttholes, everyone has an opinion. But, also like butt holes, some opinions stink a lot more than others.” Chuck Pollack's opinion does not pass the smell test either. In fact, it stinks to high heaven. That’s his business.

I’ll stick with (and value) the internationally known and respected publication with credible professional sports writers of the highest level . You can stick to the Olean Times Union.

[YardRat]

St Bonaventure is just outside Olean, let's not act like they are irrelevant.

[sukie]

A sports writer for the Olean Times Herald???? Circulation 11,212?!?!? An “authority”!?!!? :rofl:

Gee...how much did you have to scour google to find this obscure piece???

Have you ever been to Olean, NY???

I have. I used to have a dealer there that I (reluctantly) called on from time to time. Blumenthal’s Camera store was dying when I started trying to get a few bucks of business from them in the early 90’s. They closed their doors for good over 20 years ago (https://www.oleantimesherald.com/archives/in-focus-will-be-second-spinoff-of-blumenthal-s/article_b5c8fb27-f2bd-529a-aae9-91998cf794e6.html). Not surprising for a dying small town.

BTW...The Athletic is owned and operated by the NY Times. In 2019, when they were an independent online publication, their paid subscription base was over 600,000.

Now with the NY Times they enjoy a paid circulation of 9,330,000. 8,590,000 are paid subscribers to their digital only content. 740,000 are print subscriptions.

Like I said...."like buttholes, everyone has an opinion. But, also like butt holes, some opinions stink a lot more than others.” Chuck Pollack's opinion does not pass the smell test either. In fact, it stinks to high heaven. That’s his business.

I’ll stick with (and value) the internationally known and respected publication with credible professional sports writers of the highest level . You can stick to the Olean Times Union.

Athletic is a dead weight on the NYTimes. Almost on life support.

I left Skursky’s opinion out of the discussion . Didn’t want you to trash him too.

Joe B did well with that Buff State degree.

[Mr. Pink]

eaven. That’s his business.

I’ll stick with (and value) the internationally known and respected publication with credible professional sports writers of the highest level . You can stick to the Olean Times Union.

Just be honest dude...you'll stick with whomever parrots your preconceived notions and dismiss everything else.

[sukie]

The number of subscribers does not have any bearing on knowledge or writing acumen.

[swiper]

https://i.imgflip.com/240s0x.jpg

strikes again.

[Turf]

I forgot about deer in the headlights. He's just posturing for a HC job. Said from day one. He failed in MN. He failed as a DC in Buf. 13 secs. Just hold everyone. BYE.

[Novacane]

10 HC openings in 2022. Not one team wanted Frazier. 5 openings this year. No one wanted Frazier again. Maybe nota is right and he did quit. When his defense **** the bed in the playoffs again it would be fresh in teams minds that he's a crappy DC. Go away for a year and hopefully teams will forget. :snicker:

[notacon]

St Bonaventure is just outside Olean, let's not act like they are irrelevant.

St. Who??? :rolleyes:

St Bonaventure has been relevant in NCAA basket ball for decades. I looked them up (https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-bonaventure/men/).

I have some vague memories of them the Bonnies being “relevant” when I was in middle school in the late 60’s. :rofl:

In the past FIFTY ONE YEARS they have ben in the NCAA Tournament only five times. Four of those times they were ousted in the first round.

They were ranked in the AP top 25 only ONCE since 1971. Between 1951 and 1971 they were ranked 13 times. The highest was 1961 when they were #2.

They made the NCAA Tournament National Semifinal (losing that round) only THREE times between 1961 and 1970.

Just like the town of Olean, their better days are FAR, FAR in the past.

I’m not “Acting” like Olean is irrelevant, they just ARE. Don't act like Olean IS relevant because they are NOT.

[notacon]

Athletic is a dead weight on the NYTimes. Almost on life support.

I left Skursky’s opinion out of the discussion . Didn’t want you to trash him too.

Joe B did well with that Buff State degree.
:rofl: :rofl: Just pulling stinky crap out of your ass does not prove anything.


What rubbish. You prove my point every time you post baloney like this. You can't refute what I wrote, nor put forth any semblance of a credible argument...so you go all scorched Earth flaming. Reminds me of a certain Florida man who is in the courthouse today under arrest. :rofl:

Yeah....you stick with Olean. :rofl: You deserve each other.

[sukie]

:rofl: :rofl: Just pulling stinky crap out of your ass does not prove anything.


What rubbish. You prove my point every time you post baloney like this. You can't refute what I wrote, nor put forth any semblance of a credible argument...so you go all scorched Earth flaming. Reminds me of a certain Florida man who is in the courthouse today under arrest. :rofl:

Yeah....you stick with Olean. :rofl: You deserve each other.

1. You didn’t write anything. Joe B did.
2. I gave you a sports writer link and mentioned Skirski (obvious hack) had similar timeline questions.

Athletic is hacking staff trying desperately to not loose 20 million this year… cutting down number of reporters but trying to retain any and all that have a degree from Buff State. Especially if the took a year off from WKBW voluntarily.

[notacon]

10 HC openings in 2022. Not one team wanted Frazier. 5 openings this year. No one wanted Frazier again. Maybe nota is right and he did quit. When his defense **** the bed in the playoffs again it would be fresh in teams minds that he's a crappy DC. Go away for a year and hopefully teams will forget. :snicker:
Obviously you have not been paying attention to the HUGE issue and GIGANTIC problem within the NFL concerning Black coaches. Extremely qualified Black coaches being passed over for HC positions that they are more than qualified for, only to have White coaches elevated that (in many cases) are less deserving.


Of course the FACT is that a LOT of really good coordinators and other very qualified coaches (both Black and White) don't get a HC job after many, many interviews.. We see it year after year after year.


What a lame argument. Really, REALY lame.

It’s so tiresome and insufferable seeing supposed Bills “fans” crapping all over so many players and coaches. I really feel like I’m on an opposing teams site sometimes when I read awful smearing crap like this.

[sukie]

Gotta admit that many are forced interviews via the Rooney Rule.

Is it only bla ck or does Hispanic count?

[Novacane]

Obviously you have not been paying attention to the HUGE issue and GIGANTIC problem within the NFL concerning Black coaches. Extremely qualified Black coaches being passed over for HC positions that they are more than qualified for, only to have White coaches elevated that (in many cases) are less deserving.


Of course the FACT is that a LOT of really good coordinators and other very qualified coaches (both Black and White) don't get a HC job after many, many interviews.. We see it year after year after year.


What a lame argument. Really, REALY lame.

It’s so tiresome and insufferable seeing supposed Bills “fans” crapping all over so many players and coaches. I really feel like I’m on an opposing teams site sometimes when I read awful smearing crap like this.



13 seconds. No white guy would get a job after that disaster.

[swiper]

:rofl: :rofl: Just pulling stinky crap out of your ass does not prove anything.


What rubbish. You prove my point every time you post baloney like this. You can't refute what I wrote, nor put forth any semblance of a credible argument...so you go all scorched Earth flaming. Reminds me of a certain Florida man who is in the courthouse today under arrest. :rofl:

Yeah....you stick with Olean. :rofl: You deserve each other.

Everything you say can be refuted, because you're always stupidly wrong about everything you spew from that putrid hole in your skull.

[swiper]

Obviously you have not been paying attention to the HUGE issue and GIGANTIC problem within the NFL concerning Black coaches. Extremely qualified Black coaches being passed over for HC positions that they are more than qualified for, only to have White coaches elevated that (in many cases) are less deserving.


Of course the FACT is that a LOT of really good coordinators and other very qualified coaches (both Black and White) don't get a HC job after many, many interviews.. We see it year after year after year.


What a lame argument. Really, REALY lame.

It’s so tiresome and insufferable seeing supposed Bills “fans” crapping all over so many players and coaches. I really feel like I’m on an opposing teams site sometimes when I read awful smearing crap like this.

You are a clueless waste of time. Frazier doesn't get a head coaching job because he doesn't deserve one. His performance as the Bills DC underscores the fact that he doesn't deserve a spot. Mike Tomlin, Tony Dingy, Lovey Smith and MANY other black head coaches make your comments look absolutely idiotic, as they are. JUST GO AWAY FOREVER. You are the most unintelligent person that posts here.

- - - Updated - - -


13 seconds. No white guy would get a job after that disaster.

Don't feed the troll.

[jamze132]

:rofl: Actually, the OPPOSITE is probably true.

As I wrote in another thread (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263160-Bills-Mafia-prepared-for-life-after-Tremaine-Edmunds?p=5023109&viewfull=1#post5023109)....


the idea that Frazier was pushed out, or left because of the phantom idea that defensive play calling was being taken away...I doubt VERY MUCH and there is zero evidence of that....except in the musings on ill informed “fans” guessing.

The upshot is that a lot of Bills “fans” suck. They don’t deserve an elite team.

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/16/sean-mcdermott-leslie-frazier-rift-buffalo-bills/

According to Michael Lombardi, a former NFL general manager now with The Daily Coach, there were disagreements between McDermott and Frazier leading to the defensive coordinator’s departure from Buffalo. Specifically, McDermott wanted to call plays and Frazier did not want to give up that game-day responsibility… so he left.

Essentially what I said and you dismissed it…like usual.

[Novacane]

Obviously you have not been paying attention to the HUGE issue and GIGANTIC problem within the NFL concerning Black coaches. Extremely qualified Black coaches being passed over for HC positions that they are more than qualified for, only to have White coaches elevated that (in many cases) are less deserving.


Of course the FACT is that a LOT of really good coordinators and other very qualified coaches (both Black and White) don't get a HC job after many, many interviews.. We see it year after year after year.


What a lame argument. Really, REALY lame.

It’s so tiresome and insufferable seeing supposed Bills “fans” crapping all over so many players and coaches. I really feel like I’m on an opposing teams site sometimes when I read awful smearing crap like this.



Frazier is not one of them. Please stop.

[Novacane]

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/16/sean-mcdermott-leslie-frazier-rift-buffalo-bills/

According to Michael Lombardi, a former NFL general manager now with The Daily Coach, there were disagreements between McDermott and Frazier leading to the defensive coordinator’s departure from Buffalo. Specifically, McDermott wanted to call plays and Frazier did not want to give up that game-day responsibility… so he left.

Essentially what I said and you dismissed it…like usual.




That guys a liar. All hail Joe B!!!!!!!!!!!

[Goobylal]

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/16/sean-mcdermott-leslie-frazier-rift-buffalo-bills/

According to Michael Lombardi, a former NFL general manager now with The Daily Coach, there were disagreements between McDermott and Frazier leading to the defensive coordinator’s departure from Buffalo. Specifically, McDermott wanted to call plays and Frazier did not want to give up that game-day responsibility… so he left.

Essentially what I said and you dismissed it…like usual.

Like I said...

But Lombardi also claimed that McD called plays during "13 seconds." Tim Graham spoke to McD at the Combine and he said the only time he ever took over play-calling was in 2018, during Josh' first game. Benjamin Allbright concurred.

[notacon]

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/06/16/sean-mcdermott-leslie-frazier-rift-buffalo-bills/

According to Michael Lombardi, a former NFL general manager now with The Daily Coach, there were disagreements between McDermott and Frazier leading to the defensive coordinator’s departure from Buffalo. Specifically, McDermott wanted to call plays and Frazier did not want to give up that game-day responsibility… so he left.

Essentially what I said and you dismissed it…like usual.

You betcha I dismissed the fan theories at that time.

WHY?? Like I said, accurately, was that there was ZERO evidence of that at that time. That was then. Now we are seeing some “evidence” from (what seems to be) a credible source.

I base my opinions on evidence. At that time, what I said was 100% accurate...."the idea that Frazier was pushed out, or left because of the phantom idea that defensive play calling was being taken away...I doubt VERY MUCH and there is zero evidence of that....except in the musings on ill informed “fans” guessing.”

Interestingly, if one accepts what Mr. Lombardi says, it shoots down TWO, HUGE premises that have been bouncing around here by ignorant (as in they do not have first or even second hand knowledge) used to smear Leslie Frazier.

#1. That Frazier was “FIRED”. Clearly what Lombardi says is that Frazier's (his decision) to leave was based on McDermotts “wanting” to call plays.

#2...THIS is a MASSIVE one....that unlike the criticism that has been heaped on Frazier for blame for the “13 seconds”, because it was assumed that FRAZIER called the plays for that...is WRONG (according to Lombardi) McDermott took over play calling for the 13 seconds and HE ****ed it up?!?!?

Well...that kinda ruins so much of the vitriol thrown Frazier way. Maybe that did happen...maybe not. On top of what has been reported by Tyler Dunn (https://www.golongtd.com/p/it-was-a-bad-bad-situation), McDermott was the guy who big footed the special teams coach and forced the AWFUL decision to kick the ball into the end zone instead of doing what th Bills did several times during the season and at least once during that game....kick it short and force KC to field it which would have taken (about) 6-7 seconds off the clock. A whole other ball of wax then 13 seconds with the ball on their own 25.

If (and that is a BIG “if”) McDermott has been meddling in defensive plays calling from time to time, and so many “fans” here try to **** on the defense baling FRAZIER...well...that’s been shot to hell.

In any event, Lombardi’s theories (“evidence”, I guess) was almost immediately refuted (as was the theory of yours (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263383-Sean-McDermott-Stefon-Diggs-has-done-everything-asked-of-him-we’re-in-a-great-spot?p=5029309&viewfull=1#post5029309) that I agreed with (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263383-Sean-McDermott-Stefon-Diggs-has-done-everything-asked-of-him-we’re-in-a-great-spot?p=5029410&viewfull=1#post5029410)) that Digg’s drama was because of a rift with Dorsey) by a very well informed writer who is known for having a lot of ties within the Bills organization.

I never really heard (or more likely did not pay attention) of Michale Lombardi until this came out. His last job in the NFL was working for the New England Patriots so there is some reason to doubt anything he says about the Bills. :D:


Tim Graham, on the Peter hand, is a writer I respect and trust.

Tim Graham refutes recent rumors on rifts at One Bills Drive (https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2023/6/16/23764124/tim-graham-refutes-recent-rumors-on-rifts-at-one-bills-drive-buffalo-bills-news-stefon-diggs-nfl)
That’s a lot of alliteration to discuss 13 seconds and the Stefon Diggs situation





Recent comments from Michael Lombardi about the (https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2023/6/16/23763871/michael-lombardi-thinks-theres-some-internal-combustion-within-buffalo-bills-stefon-diggs-pat-mcafee)Buffalo Bills (https://www.buffalorumblings.com/) appear to have dropped quite the bombshell (https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2023/6/16/23763871/michael-lombardi-thinks-theres-some-internal-combustion-within-buffalo-bills-stefon-diggs-pat-mcafee). The short version is that it has to do with a couple of key allegations in recent Bills events. Have you been perturbed by “13 Seconds,” defensive play-calling, and/or the weird departure of assistant head coach/defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier? Lombardi asserted that the play-calling for “13 Seconds” was head coach Sean McDermott, not Leslie Frazier. Further, that this and other developments led to Frazier leaving (check the link below for the full story).

Well, every coin has two sides and Tim Graham, known for his deep connections to Buffalo sports, had a different perspective on the matter. Per Graham, “McDermott told me at the combine that the only time he ever called the plays was that brief time in 2018.” This is of course a reference to the time McDermott took over play calling mid-game against the Los Angeles Chargers (https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/). Frazier resumed his usual duties the following game.

In addition, Graham indicates that this was told to him after specifically being asked “how often he’d taken over” defensive play calling. That appears to be a preemptive attempt by Graham to get ahead of any skeptical tearing apart of the response he claimed to have gotten. That wasn’t the only drama that Graham dove into recently.



<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 va2llX2V4cGlyYXRpb24iOnsiYnVja2V0IjoxMjA5NjAwLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X3Nob3dfYmlyZHdhdGNoX3Bpdm90c19lbmFibGVkIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19kdXBsaWNhdGVfc2NyaWJlc190b19zZXR0aW5ncyI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdXNlX3Byb2ZpbGVfaW1hZ2Vfc2hhcGVfZW5hYmxlZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdmlkZW9faGxzX2R5bmFtaWNfbWFuaWZlc3RzXzE1MDgyIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRydWVfYml0cmF0ZSIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfbGVnYWN5X3RpbWVsaW5lX3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnR ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1669783904964734976&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=cb4304b68d05294bbba5ebaf1117a88f59a5eb2f&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1669783904964734976" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 405px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
During a recent episode of “Talking Buffalo,” Tim Graham also discussed the little he knows about the issue that led to Stefon Diggs missing 50% of the team’s mandatory minicamp this season. While Graham couldn’t say what the reason was, he was able to say what one reason wasn’t.

The widely speculated rift between Stefon Diggs and offensive coordinator Ken Dorsey can be considered nonexistent per Graham. With that being the leading theory in most circles, the answer is a double-edged sword. It seemingly clears Dorsey, but leaves us left to continue looking for other parties to point at.


<iframe id="twitter-widget-1" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-1&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1669736596986380291&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=cb4304b68d05294bbba5ebaf1117a88f59a5eb2f&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1669736596986380291" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 696px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>




Hmmmmmm….differing theories.

Is Mr. Lombardi expressing his opinion of what happened??? Or does it come from information from any of the principles.


He does not say.

There are some significant differences in the stories.

If you want to accept Lombardi 100% without question, then that means that two theories being thrown around here willy-nilly like there are “fact” have been shot to pieces.

At this point, the “evidence” is still very murky and certainly not nearly enough to declare exactly what happened as fact. Yet...I suspect some posters will anyway.

I can say this though.....with some of the information that has been coming out, it sure seems like McDermott has THIS season to show that he has what it takes to win a Super Bowl. If not...I’m not sure how much longer he will have support from the fans (me included), or should get from Pegula.
<iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe>

[notacon]

Upon further review, it is not clear at all if what Lombardi is saying is simply his own “speculation” and opinion, or gleaned from any “inside” information.

I went and watched the clip on the Pat McAfee show to get the full context. I did not realize his podcast is 3 hours long. This video should start when the Bills discussion starts (at 37:06)...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uJoJTBk6Vrs?start=2226" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>


The whole segment and all the comments made by Lombardi are in context to the Diggs situation. He uses the speculation (since there is no indication that he got the information about McDermott taking over play calling for the 13 seconds, I can only assume that it is “speculation”) as the underlying noise of “a lot going on” as a precursor to the Digs minicamp drama.

Later, when going though the reason why the Diggs disagreement took place, he concentrates on disagreements on how he is going to be used (with the addition of Kincaid) and a possible disagreement with Dorsey.

He comes out and says that it’s “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”. Does that apply to what he said about defensive play calling??? Again, he does not say.

Contrast that with this direct refutation by Tim Graham a very astute Bills “insider” of what Lombardi had to say, importantly and critically citing the source....

Tim Graham is asked (on twitter) if he can confirm “any of this” as in the Lombardi comments. Tim’s response?....


<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1669783904964734976&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=a0c66c30edda4e506bc347a6b8cd9c8415c4779f&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1669783904964734976" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 384px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A more detailed discussion about Diggs Drama is captured in this video with Graham joined by Tyler Dunn who is a another very astute Bills “insider”...

He specifically reject the idea that it had anything to do with a disagreement with Dorsey (Lombardi’s speculation) and again, importantly and critically cites that he got that specific information from a Bills organization source.


<iframe id="twitter-widget-1" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-1&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1669736596986380291&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=a0c66c30edda4e506bc347a6b8cd9c8415c4779f&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1669736596986380291" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 677px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Tim Graham is extremely up-front in when asked…...


“What is going on with Stefon Diggs right now…..where do you think they are right now?”

Graham: “My take is, I don’t have one. I’ve been trying to find out what is the issue, and I don’t know.

And everybody has been tightly lipped about it….I’ve been told, that it is NOT Ken Dorsey if you want to strike that one off the list, because that is about all I could wriggle out of my sources.

And when I generally come up with a column, I’m not….I’ve said this on all kinds of different platforms….I would not make a good columnist like Jerry Sullivan or Bucky Gleason.

I can’t shoot from the hip. That is a skill to do especially on deadline. For me to have an opinion on something, I get as much information as I can before I have an opinion on something.

So the fact that I don’t know what the issue is….it could be something incredibly profound, it could be something really stupid, juvenile and silly.

More…watch the full 7 min video clip


Quite right.

Sure looks like Michael Lombardi is “shooting from the hip” with speculation that has no “source” except his own opinions and thoughts.

Which are extensive for sure. Which is why his opinion cannot be rejected out of hand.

We do know that his speculation (which is quite extensive) that the Diggs drama had to do with Ken Dorsey and play calling was shot down quite emphatically by Tim Graham. I believe Graham.

As was his “13 seconds” speculation (again, it has to be considered “speculation” without any indication of source)

Like I said….

There are some significant differences in the stories.

If you want to accept Lombardi 100% without question, then that means that two theories being thrown around here willy-nilly like there are “fact” have been shot to pieces.


On this too, Tim Graham is more believable about the 13 seconds play calling and Lombardi is not.

Most important here is that there has been some satisfaction that Frazier is gone and that McDermott has taken over play calling.

That’s quite a leap to take when considering (if you take Lombardi’s speculation as accurate) and value Tyler Dunn’s reporting (based on talking to players about the 13 second kickoff debacle) as accurate…

The TWO BIGGEST decisions that contributed a massive amount to the Bills most consequential LOSS in years (in a game they should have won) are squarely on the shoulders of McDermott who BIG FOOTED his coaches and royally ****ed it up.


Be careful what you wish for and what you think is true and accurate.

Maybe it would have been better if MCDERMOTT took a leave after the 13 second loss and Brain Daboll hired as Bills HC???


Either way, McDermott had something to do with the defensive strategy for the 13 seconds. If he big footed Frazier 100% and HE was calling the exact plays....that is NOT a very good look. It’s bad enough that he (apparently) ****ed up the kickoff. <iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe>

[Goobylal]

Upon further review, it is not clear at all if what Lombardi is saying is simply his own “speculation” and opinion, or gleaned from any “inside” information.

I went and watched the clip on the Pat McAfee show to get the full context. I did not realize his podcast is 3 hours long. This video should start when the Bills discussion starts (at 37:06)...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uJoJTBk6Vrs?start=2226" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>


The whole segment and all the comments made by Lombardi are in context to the Diggs situation. He uses the speculation (since there is no indication that he got the information about McDermott taking over play calling for the 13 seconds, I can only assume that it is “speculation”) as the underlying noise of “a lot going on” as a precursor to the Digs minicamp drama.

Later, when going though the reason why the Diggs disagreement took place, he concentrates on disagreements on how he is going to be used (with the addition of Kincaid) and a possible disagreement with Dorsey.

He comes out and says that it’s “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”. Does that apply to what he said about defensive play calling??? Again, he does not say.

Contrast that with this direct refutation by Tim Graham a very astute Bills “insider” of what Lombardi had to say, importantly and critically citing the source....

Tim Graham is asked (on twitter) if he can confirm “any of this” as in the Lombardi comments. Tim’s response?....


<iframe id="twitter-widget-0" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-0&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1669783904964734976&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=a0c66c30edda4e506bc347a6b8cd9c8415c4779f&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1669783904964734976" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 384px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A more detailed discussion about Diggs Drama is captured in this video with Graham joined by Tyler Dunn who is a another very astute Bills “insider”...

He specifically reject the idea that it had anything to do with a disagreement with Dorsey (Lombardi’s speculation) and again, importantly and critically cites that he got that specific information from a Bills organization source.


<iframe id="twitter-widget-1" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" class="" title="Twitter Tweet" src="https://platform.twitter.com/embed/Tweet.html?dnt=false&embedId=twitter-widget-1&features=eyJ0ZndfdGltZWxpbmVfbGlzdCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOltdLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X2ZvbGxvd2VyX2NvdW50X3N1bnNldCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOnRydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9iYWNrZW5kIjp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6Im9uIiwidmVyc2lvbiI6bnVsbH0sInRmd19yZWZzcmNfc2Vzc2lvbiI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZm9zbnJfc29mdF9pbnRlcnZlbnRpb25zX2VuYWJsZWQiOnsiYnVja2V0Ijoib24iLCJ2ZXJzaW9uIjpudWxsfSwidGZ3X21peGVkX21lZGlhXzE1ODk3Ijp7ImJ1Y2tldCI6InRyZWF0bWVudCIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfZXhwZXJpbWVudHNfY29 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 ydWUsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9LCJ0ZndfdHdlZXRfZWRpdF9mcm9udGVuZCI6eyJidWNrZXQiOiJvbiIsInZlcnNpb24iOm51bGx9fQ%3D%3D&frame=false&hideCard=false&hideThread=false&id=1669736596986380291&lang=en&origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com%2Ffanzone%2Fnewreply.php%3Fdo%3Dpostreply%26t%3D263207&sessionId=a0c66c30edda4e506bc347a6b8cd9c8415c4779f&theme=light&widgetsVersion=aaf4084522e3a%3A1674595607486&width=550px" data-tweet-id="1669736596986380291" style="position: static; visibility: visible; width: 550px; height: 677px; display: block; flex-grow: 1;"></iframe>
<script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Tim Graham is extremely up-front in when asked…...



Quite right.

Sure looks like Michael Lombardi is “shooting from the hip” with speculation that has no “source” except his own opinions and thoughts.

Which are extensive for sure. Which is why his opinion cannot be rejected out of hand.

We do know that his speculation (which is quite extensive) that the Diggs drama had to do with Ken Dorsey and play calling was shot down quite emphatically by Tim Graham. I believe Graham.

As was his “13 seconds” speculation (again, it has to be considered “speculation” without any indication of source)

Like I said….

There are some significant differences in the stories.

If you want to accept Lombardi 100% without question, then that means that two theories being thrown around here willy-nilly like there are “fact” have been shot to pieces.


On this too, Tim Graham is more believable about the 13 seconds play calling and Lombardi is not.

Most important here is that there has been some satisfaction that Frazier is gone and that McDermott has taken over play calling.

That’s quite a leap to take when considering (if you take Lombardi’s speculation as accurate) and value Tyler Dunn’s reporting (based on talking to players about the 13 second kickoff debacle) as accurate…

The TWO BIGGEST decisions that contributed a massive amount to the Bills most consequential LOSS in years (in a game they should have won) are squarely on the shoulders of McDermott who BIG FOOTED his coaches and royally ****ed it up.


Be careful what you wish for and what you think is true and accurate.

Maybe it would have been better if MCDERMOTT took a leave after the 13 second loss and Brain Daboll hired as Bills HC???


Either way, McDermott had something to do with the defensive strategy for the 13 seconds. If he big footed Frazier 100% and HE was calling the exact plays....that is NOT a very good look. It’s bad enough that he (apparently) ****ed up the kickoff. <iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe><iframe scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets/widget_iframe.2b2d73daf636805223fb11d48f3e94f7.html?origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.billszone.com" title="Twitter settings iframe" style="display: none;"></iframe><iframe id="rufous-sandbox" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowtransparency="true" allowfullscreen="true" title="Twitter analytics iframe" style="position: absolute; visibility: hidden; display: none; width: 0px; height: 0px; padding: 0px; border: medium;"></iframe>

With Lombardi having no source, I'll believe McD WRT who called "13 seconds." But I've been saying that McD wanted to take over play-calling duties and that's why Frazier left, so Lombardi agrees with me. Just because one of his opinions is wrong it doesn't mean the other is as well.

As for Farwell, the initial call was TB and then it was changed. Farwell never got the change in to Bass. That's why he's gone and rightfully so.

And Daboll will need to get the Giants to the playoffs again this year at least. He was a lousy OC prior to joining the Bills and the offense only became great in his 3rd season, which corresponded with Josh becoming a far better passer.

[Mace]

Graham and Dunne imo...are the best.That said...McD has previously stated he called the timeouts during 13 seconds so he could see what KC was doing and respond to it. Now he tells Graham he only called D in 2018.Both statements cannot be true.

[Canadian'eh!]

Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.

we saw Fraziers D collapse when pressured repeatedly. I firmly believe he was not going to be retained McD and Beane still respect him, so they let him “walk away” instead of firing or informing him he’s not be renewed so he could maintain it was his call for future interviews.

that said, I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained

[Goobylal]

Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.

we saw Fraziers D collapse when pressured repeatedly. I firmly believe he was not going to be retained McD and Beane still respect him, so they let him “walk away” instead of firing or informing him he’s not be renewed so he could maintain it was his call for future interviews.

that said, I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained

I think they would have kept Frazier around, but in the role that Al Holcomb is now in ("Senior Defensive Assistant"). However it's a demotion and Frazier IMHO chose to leave and I don't blame him even though I wanted McD to take over play-calling.

[jamze132]

Frazier was essentially fired. There I just said that in literally four words. Doesn’t take a PowerPoint presentation guy.

[Night Train]

Rent free living. Make sure to clean the exit out the ear.

[notacon]

Frazier was essentially fired. There I just said that in literally four words. Doesn’t take a PowerPoint presentation guy.

A distinction without a difference.


You can think anything you want. But there is no evidence that happened.

[notacon]

I think they would have kept Frazier around, but in the role that Al Holcomb is now in ("Senior Defensive Assistant"). However it's a demotion and Frazier IMHO chose to leave and I don't blame him even though I wanted McD to take over play-calling.

That is a fair assessment....but not necessarily reality.

We never will really know exactly what the delineation of responsibility was for Holcomb vs Frazier. Possibly never will. If anyone can dig it out, it will be writers like Tyler Dunn and Tim Graham.

Frazier did have the official title of “Assistant head coach” besides defensive coordinator from 2020 to 2022.

“Senior Defensive Assistant” does not sound like it was “demotion” of Frazier.

Frazier had the official title of only defensive coordinator from 2017 to 2019. When he was named “Assistant Head Coach” before the 2020 season....that did not mean that McDermott was “demoted”.

Although, without knowing the politics inside the organization, and how that hiring came about....it’s all speculation.

[notacon]

Graham and Dunne imo...are the best.That said...McD has previously stated he called the timeouts during 13 seconds so he could see what KC was doing and respond to it. Now he tells Graham he only called D in 2018.Both statements cannot be true.

Calling time out, which is very much in the purview (sometimes the exclusive purview) of head coaches is NOT, in any way, shape of form, the same as taking over the defensive play calling.

Not even close!!!

Yes, both (McD called the time outs during the 13 seconds....AND he “only called D in the 2018 season) can absolutely be true. In fact, it makes 100% sense.

I think (actually, I hope) that they ARE both true.

IF McD took over play calling during the 13 seconds AFTER he big footed the ST coach and ****ed up the strategy of the kickoff before it then THAT means that McDermott is the problem. Not Frazier.

Tim Grahm is much more credible than Lombardi on this one. As explained in detail above.

Either way, McDermott is ultimately responsible for everything that happens. There is no doubt that the Bills have underachieved. He has this season to finally prove himself.

The patients with McDermott is wearing extremely thin.

[notacon]

Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.

we saw Fraziers D collapse when pressured repeatedly. I firmly believe he was not going to be retained McD and Beane still respect him, so they let him “walk away” instead of firing or informing him he’s not be renewed so he could maintain it was his call for future interviews.

that said, I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained

I agree both most of this. More accurately is to say "we saw Fraziers and McDermott’s D collapse when pressured repeatedly.”

As Tim Graham said (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/) after the Frazier announced year off.....



Sweeping changes aren’t coming to Buffalo’s defensive schemes, which have thrived for several years despite consecutive postseason collapses.<o:p></o:p>
The Bills this week expressed little concern about making a smooth transition because there won’t be much of one.

<o:p></o:p>
Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires.

<o:p></o:p>
That’s why the Bills still might not have staged a search for Frazier’s replacement even if he’d informed them of his plans immediately after the season. Maybe they would have interviewed Vic Fangio and Steve Wilks, but my sense is there would not have been a hot pursuit of anybody outside the organization.<o:p></o:p>



I believe you are spot on when you write....”Lombardi pulled the 13s thing out of his ass. The whole thing smacked of him trying to say something provocative so he’d get attention. I’ll take Grahams word for it over Lombardi.”

If it was a real “scoop” that was gleaned from sources within the Bills organization, he would have brought it up a LONG time ago.

If it was recent information he got from sources within the Bills organization, ANY even half way decent sports media person would preface with....

“I have heard....” or “Sources within the Bills told me....” or any myriad of qualifiers that make any statement by an analyst more credible and additionally illustrates “insider” status of the analyst.

The end of Lombardi’s interview on the McAffe show (that concerned the Bills) has him saying, without doubt, that it’s “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”....all in the context of what the Diggs drama was all about.

Since the whole 13 seconds (I’m going to call it speculation) was what started the Digs drama discussion, as in an underlying issue within the team....there is every reason the believe that the 13 seconds was part and parcel of “speculation” and he “doesn’t know”.

Tim Grahm comes out and says what he “doesn’t know”...and when he does say soemthing based on sources within the Bills he says so as in...

”My take is, I don’t have one. I’ve been trying to find out what is the issue, and I don’t know.

And everybody has been tightly lipped about it….I’ve been told, that it is NOT Ken Dorsey if you want to strike that one off the list, because that is about all I could wriggle out of my sources.”

I especially agree with your final statement...."I DO think McD needs to have a very good year and AT LEAST get the the AFC Championship if not the Super Bowl or be might Not be retained”

I‘m thinking that getting to the AFCC may not be enough. Getting to the Super Bowl is critical. I could live with (another) loss there....depending on how the loss comes about. But failing to get there is not going to cut it.

[Skooby]

I stayed out of this but my $.02 is Frazier got fired, they just made it look like it was his choice to leave it on a positive note. We had a player die on the field last season, it’s simply difficult for people to overcome some things that quickly. Let’s hope we have a better run this year with less crap, hoping nothing odd pops up like last season’s rape accusations (debunked later).

[notacon]

I stayed out of this but my $.02 is Frazier got fired, they just made it look like it was his choice to leave it on a positive note. We had a player die on the field last season, it’s simply difficult for people to overcome some things that quickly. Let’s hope we have a better run this year with less crap, hoping nothing odd pops up like last season’s rape accusations (debunked later).

Again, there is no evidence to support this, at all.

If that were even close to the case, it would have happened earlier after the season ended. Almost ALL of the coaching hiring (head coach and coordinators) are done before Frazier announced his leave on Feb 28....more than five weeks after the Bills exit from the playoffs.

The list of hiring is long....before Feb. 28 (http://chemical castration).


In fact, ALL of the five new head coaching hires were done by Jan 26 (https://www.nfl.com/news/ranking-nfl-head-coach-openings-which-jobs-are-most-enticing-in-2023)...a full month before Frazier's announcement.

None of this supports the idea that "Frazier got fired, they just made it look like it was his choice to leave it on a positive note”. It just doesn’t. Simple common sense and the history of coaching hires.

Even the hiring of Holcomb as “senior defensive assistant) was done almost three weeks before Frazier’s leave. **** happens quickly in the NFL coaching carousel as evidenced by ALL five HC positions being filled in less than 3 weeks after the regular season ended.


The idea that he decided to “take a year off” in order to hopefully get a 2024 head coaching position is what ALL the evidence points to.

[notacon]

What is amazing...but not surprising in today’s society....is the extreme cynicism doubting what high profile people say whenever it goes against a preconceived (and almost totally ignorant....as in not having any direct or even indirect knowledge) notion in order to support that unknowable perception.

We see this all over politics that was present for some time but when into OVERDRIVE right around June 2015 and has gotten worse and worse since Nov 2020 and especially since Jan 2021.

It’s a weird mindset of attacking and smearing the INTEGRITY of almost every one involved in almost every news event.

It’s a sad state of affairs for our society.

I have zero reason to question the integrity of Leslie Frazier or Brandon Beane or any of the sports writers that have “inside” access to the Bills organization on the situation of the one year leave of Leslie Frazier.

[sukie]

Holcomb’s hiring 3 weeks prior to LFs exit is what is considered evidence. Leslie was DC and assistant head coach. They made up an opening for Holcomb.

[sukie]

At 64 years old, Leslie Frazier is older than many current suits in the NFL. However, with the years of coaching experience he has behind him (24 of them in the NFL), he certainly has a wealth of knowledge to bring to his next opportunity.
However, Frazier added that if he doesn’t get an offer to coach again, he’ll still be okay.

“If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good.”
We’ll be keeping our eyes open to see if and where Leslie Frazier ends up in 2024, even though it most likely won’t be back in Western New York with Buffalo.


Read More: Leslie Frazier Revealing He Wants To Be Head Coach (https://wyrk.com/leslie-frazier-head-coach/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral) | https://wyrk.com/leslie-frazier-head-coach/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral



doesn’t sound like he’s gonna be DC in 2024 . So much for a sabbatical.

[Goobylal]

That is a fair assessment....but not necessarily reality.

We never will really know exactly what the delineation of responsibility was for Holcomb vs Frazier. Possibly never will. If anyone can dig it out, it will be writers like Tyler Dunn and Tim Graham.

Frazier did have the official title of “Assistant head coach” besides defensive coordinator from 2020 to 2022.

“Senior Defensive Assistant” does not sound like it was “demotion” of Frazier.

Frazier had the official title of only defensive coordinator from 2017 to 2019. When he was named “Assistant Head Coach” before the 2020 season....that did not mean that McDermott was “demoted”.

Although, without knowing the politics inside the organization, and how that hiring came about....it’s all speculation.

Holcomb was (just) hired after Frazier left. He was his replacement. He won't be calling plays, like Frazier wasn't going to be doing anymore. If McD intended for Frazier to continue calling plays, he would have hired another DC.

[Novacane]

At 64 years old, Leslie Frazier is older than many current suits in the NFL. However, with the years of coaching experience he has behind him (24 of them in the NFL), he certainly has a wealth of knowledge to bring to his next opportunity.
However, Frazier added that if he doesn’t get an offer to coach again, he’ll still be okay.

“If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good.”
We’ll be keeping our eyes open to see if and where Leslie Frazier ends up in 2024, even though it most likely won’t be back in Western New York with Buffalo.


Read More: Leslie Frazier Revealing He Wants To Be Head Coach (https://wyrk.com/leslie-frazier-head-coach/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral) | https://wyrk.com/leslie-frazier-head-coach/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral



doesn’t sound like he’s gonna be DC in 2024 . So much for a sabbatical.



He's old and he failed his first chance at HC. I think his chances are slim to none at a 2nd chance but wish him well. Nice guy but I'm glad he's not calling our defenses anymore.

[notacon]

Holcomb was (just) hired after Frazier left. He was his replacement. He won't be calling plays, like Frazier wasn't going to be doing anymore. If McD intended for Frazier to continue calling plays, he would have hired another DC.

That is not accurate. Al Holcomb was hired on Feb 9 (https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/buffalo-bills-hire-al-holcomb-carolina-panthers-sean-mcdermott-josh-allen). Frazier announced his leave on Feb 28.

[notacon]

What is becoming clearer is that Frazier leave may have been more from frustration with McDermott’s leadership, which is coming under legitimate questions about his ability to lead the team as noted in this thread.

Do the Bills have a Sean McDermott Problem??? (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263401-Do-the-Bills-have-a-Sean-McDermott-Problem)


Maybe, just like Diggs, Frazier was frustrated with the obvious shortcomings of a head coach.


Combined with Frazier’s clear desire and frustration with getting a HC position this is much more likely than the “he was fired” meme that is coming from the same posters that have criticized Frazier (most time unjustified) for some time.

[notacon]

He's old and he failed his first chance at HC. I think his chances are slim to none at a 2nd chance but wish him well. Nice guy but I'm glad he's not calling our defenses anymore.

That may be true, but it is becoming clear that McDermott had a HUGE say on defensive play calling. McDermott’s possible meddling in the 13 seconds debacle give me NO comfort that play calling is going to be any better.

Be careful what you wish for. McDermott ****ed up the 13 seconds but good.


Faith in him is fading fast.

[notacon]

Holcomb was (just) hired after Frazier left. He was his replacement. He won't be calling plays, like Frazier wasn't going to be doing anymore. If McD intended for Frazier to continue calling plays, he would have hired another DC.

BTW...this is illogical...very illogical.

As Tim Graham said (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/) after the Frazier announced year off.....



Sweeping changes aren’t coming to Buffalo’s defensive schemes, which have thrived for several years despite consecutive postseason collapses.<o:p></o:p>
The Bills this week expressed little concern about making a smooth transition because there won’t be much of one.

<o:p></o:p>
Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires.

<o:p></o:p>
That’s why the Bills still might not have staged a search for Frazier’s replacement even if he’d informed them of his plans immediately after the season. Maybe they would have interviewed Vic Fangio and Steve Wilks, but my sense is there would not have been a hot pursuit of anybody outside the organization.<o:p></o:p>


Sure looks like you don't bother to read or give any serous thought to the evidence.

The exact OPPOSITE can be gleaned from the Bills not hiring a DC....as in.....

'If McD intended for Frazier to NOT continue calling plays, he would have hired another DC.'

NOT hiring a replacement DC reflects the mindset of not changing the strategy.

[sukie]

However, Frazier added that if he doesn’t get an offer to coach again, he’ll still be okay.

“If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good.”



We’ll be keeping our eyes open to see if and where Leslie Frazier ends up in 2024, even though it most likely won’t be back in Western New York with Buffalo.

[Novacane]

That may be true, but it is becoming clear that McDermott had a HUGE say on defensive play calling. McDermott’s possible meddling in the 13 seconds debacle give me NO comfort that play calling is going to be any better.

Be careful what you wish for. McDermott ****ed up the 13 seconds but good.


Faith in him is fading fast.

I don't have blind faith in McD. Him and Frazier were two peas in a pod as far as I'm concerned. If not for the JA pick McDermott would likely be coaching someones secondary right now. I'm holding out hope that McD will change his philosophy because he realizes it's put up or shut up time. He has always found a scapegoat. The fingers going to pointing at him next year.

[Goobylal]

That may be true, but it is becoming clear that McDermott had a HUGE say on defensive play calling. McDermott’s possible meddling in the 13 seconds debacle give me NO comfort that play calling is going to be any better.

Be careful what you wish for. McDermott ****ed up the 13 seconds but good.


Faith in him is fading fast.


BTW...this is illogical...very illogical.

As Tim Graham said (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/) after the Frazier announced year off.....




Sure looks like you don't bother to read or give any serous thought to the evidence.

The exact OPPOSITE can be gleaned from the Bills not hiring a DC....as in.....

'If McD intended for Frazier to NOT continue calling plays, he would have hired another DC.'

NOT hiring a replacement DC reflects the mindset of not changing the strategy.


I don't have blind faith in McD. Him and Frazier were two peas in a pod as far as I'm concerned. If not for the JA pick McDermott would likely be coaching someones secondary right now. I'm holding out hope that McD will change his philosophy because he realizes it's put up or shut up time. He has always found a scapegoat. The fingers going to pointing at him next year.

People seem to forget about 2017. You know, the season where everyone thought they were tanking for Darnold (LOL!) but instead made the playoffs. That's why McD gets the BOTD.

And I guess it needs to be said out loud: Frazier is directly responsible for the failings of the defense in the playoffs and that's why he McD took over play-calling and why Frazier never got another HC'ing gig.

As for the play-calling being the same with McD, wrong. No two coaches are the same. That being said, it's McD's show now and if the team has a poor showing in the playoffs again, specifically on defense, the seat for McD will start getting warm.

[k-oneputt]

Who cares how Frazier is gone. Be glad he is, it’s a plus and an upgrade.

[jamze132]

A distinction without a difference.


You can think anything you want. But there is no evidence that happened.

That’s the most intelligent thing I’ve ever read from you: “You can think anything you want”. If you could only remember that every time you attack a poster for having a differing opinion…

[Novacane]

Again, there is no evidence to support this, at all.





Did you ever stop to think that's exactly how the Bills wanted it?

[notacon]

Did you ever stop to think that's exactly how the Bills wanted it?

All the time. As soon as there is any credible evidence of that, I will reassess my opinion.

As of now, ALL the evidence supports the opposite....and the evidence is what I base my opinion on.

The more important question is...did you ever stop to actually listen and respect all the evidence and think that Frazier did NOT get fired and his statements (and of Beane) of what he did and why are heartfelt and accurate?

[sukie]

Since Frazier himself said he’s not returning to Buffalo… the fact that M Lombardi and Rappaport offered up closure to this coaching tenure in Buffalo. Is this all a new development after his sabbatical?

he doesn’t have the job if he wants it. LF is done in BUF.

[notacon]

Since Frazier himself said he’s not returning to Buffalo… the fact that M Lombardi and Rappaport offered up closure to this coaching tenure in Buffalo. Is this all a new development after his sabbatical?

he doesn’t have the job if he wants it. LF is done in BUF.

I doubt this is accurate. Provide a link to the actual quote or STFU.

You are being insufferable with this garbage ****ting on an extremely good and very respected NFL coach who did a fantastic job in Buffalo, developing and fielding one of the best defense in the NFL.

Just like the hatchet job you did on Brain Daboll (which you now falsely deny). :rolleyes:

[sukie]

However, Frazier added that if he doesn’t get an offer to coach again, he’ll still be okay.

“If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good.”

he’s not saying if I don’t get a head coaching job at least I have Buffalo. The word “had” is past tense.

[Goobylal]

All the time. As soon as there is any credible evidence of that, I will reassess my opinion.

As of now, ALL the evidence supports the opposite....and the evidence is what I base my opinion on.

The more important question is...did you ever stop to actually listen and respect all the evidence and think that Frazier did NOT get fired and his statements (and of Beane) of what he did and why are heartfelt and accurate?

The only evidence you need to know is that McD is calling the plays/being the DC. If he didn't intend to do that, he would have hired a DC or promoted someone to replace Frazier.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm telling you Frazier wanted out because he was being blamed for things like 13 seconds and didn't want to hear it anymore when the defense here was never his defense, it's McDermott's.

Frazier is now stuck going elsewhere to try and succeed to get another head coaching gig.

[Goobylal]

I'm telling you Frazier wanted out because he was being blamed for things like 13 seconds and didn't want to hear it anymore when the defense here was never his defense, it's McDermott's.

Frazier is now stuck going elsewhere to try and succeed to get another head coaching gig.

It was no less Frazier's defense than it was McD's. And he was calling the plays. McD should have replaced him after 13 seconds but still kept him on, trying to get him a HC'ing gig. Now it's all on McD. We'll see what happens.

[kscdogbillsfan1221]

It was no less Frazier's defense than it was McD's. And he was calling the plays. McD should have replaced him after 13 seconds but still kept him on, trying to get him a HC'ing gig. Now it's all on McD. We'll see what happens.
Yup. McDermott is putting all his chips in the middle now. There are no more scapegoats. If this team disappoints again, it should be over for him in my opinion

I mean last years firing of the secondary coach was the most laughable thing I’ve seen in a while. The players in the secondary were either out for the year, coming back from a major injury, rookies or literally dying on the field

[notacon]

However, Frazier added that if he doesn’t get an offer to coach again, he’ll still be okay.

“If that doesn’t happen, I’m good. I’ve had a good career. I’m good.”

he’s not saying if I don’t get a head coaching job at least I have Buffalo. The word “had” is past tense.


:rofl: :rofl: Seriously?!?!?! Get real and get your head out of your own hubris.


That is NOT, in ANY way, shape or form “Frazier himself said he’s not returning to Buffalo”.

[notacon]

The only evidence you need to know is that McD is calling the plays/being the DC. If he didn't intend to do that, he would have hired a DC or promoted someone to replace Frazier.

That is totally without any logic...and makes no sense.

Sorry, but there is a TON of evidence that has been presented. I’m not going it over again....it’s all there.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[sukie]

So his own words are lying?

[Buffalogic]

Why does this stupid thread have 8 pages? Frasier was deservedly fired. For cause. Move on.

[Goobylal]

That is totally without any logic...and makes no sense.

Sorry, but there is a TON of evidence that has been presented. I’m not going it over again....it’s all there.

You can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

LOL! What do you mean it has no logic? If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. Unless your plan was to call the plays yourself. There is nothing else to discuss here.

[notacon]

So his own words are lying?
No....you are. Unless you can't understand simple English.

[Mr. Pink]

Why does this stupid thread have 8 pages? Frasier was deservedly fired. For cause. Move on.

Except he wasn't fired. He quit.

[notacon]

Why does this stupid thread have 8 pages? Frasier was deservedly fired. For cause. Move on.


Except he was not fired.

No matter how much you want to spew that narrative, until there is ANY evidence to back it up it is correctly considered false.

[notacon]

LOL! What do you mean it has no logic? If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. Unless your plan was to call the plays yourself. There is nothing else to discuss here.

Huh?!?!?

Uhhhhh….no.

If your DC leaves, and you are not even thinking about changing defensive strategy, and and play calling strategy….which Frazier was carrying out BOTH McDermott’s AND Frazier’s shared defensive strategy….you do not even CONSIDER “replacing him with another”.

Any DC coming in would want to implement his own defensive ideas and philosophy.


The proper and intellectually honest statement is ‘If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. ONLY IF your plan was to NOT call the plays yourself or were unhappy with the whole defensive philosophy’


Once again, Tim Graham has to school you (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/) with true logic….



Sweeping changes aren’t coming to Buffalo’s defensive schemes, which have thrived for several years despite consecutive postseason collapses.

The Bills this week expressed little concern about making a smooth transition because there won’t be much of one.


Though fans acted as though Frazier locked McDermott out of closed-door defensive meetings and unilaterally called blitzes and coverages without input, the Bills always have, in fact, deployed McDermott’s defensive desires.


That’s why the Bills still might not have staged a search for Frazier’s replacement even if he’d informed them of his plans immediately after the season. Maybe they would have interviewed Vic Fangio and Steve Wilks, but my sense is there would not have been a hot pursuit of anybody outside the organization.


It is very clear that Frazier leaving was unexpected. It is very obvious that the Bills did not were considering what to do until AFTER Frazier left. As Beane said and reported…. (https://billswire.usatoday.com/lists/takeaways-buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-2023-nfl-combine-draft-leslie-frazier/)



By now, all of Buffalo knows defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier will not be (https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/02/28/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-take-off-2023-season/) the Bills defensive coordinator in 2023. This full takeaway here will be everything Beane said about it:


Frazier came to the team and discussed his feelings on “stepping away” last week. (the week before Frazier’s annountment)
Had Frazier wanted to be, he would still be Buffalo’s defensive coordinator.
Beane did not rule out an outside hire, however, he made it sound like the team would aim more toward an in-house replacement, whether that be a team effort or a singular promotion to DC.
There is a chance head coach Sean McDermott calls plays on defense.
Frazier wants to return in 2024 but there’s no guarantee that will be with the Bills.




None of that supports the idea that “If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. Unless your plan was to call the plays yourself.” It’s VERY obvious that it is NOT accurate to say the “plan was to call the plays yourself (McDermott)” before Frazier decided to leave.

There is “nothing to discuss” insomuch that the evidence (and logic) does not come close to supporting your narrative. None of the facts (known at this time) do so.

[sukie]

No....you are. Unless you can't understand simple English.

He stated I had a good career. Where am I the one with an issue with this? The “had” part? Is this somehow no longer past tense?

[Goobylal]

Huh?!?!?

Uhhhhh….no.

If your DC leaves, and you are not even thinking about changing defensive strategy, and and play calling strategy….which Frazier was carrying out BOTH McDermott’s AND Frazier’s shared defensive strategy….you do not even CONSIDER “replacing him with another”.

Any DC coming in would want to implement his own defensive ideas and philosophy.


The proper and intellectually honest statement is ‘If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. ONLY IF your plan was to NOT call the plays yourself or were unhappy with the whole defensive philosophy’


Once again, Tim Graham has to school you (https://theathletic.com/4271878/2023/03/03/buffalo-bills-leslie-frazier-2/) with true logic….



It is very clear that Frazier leaving was unexpected. It is very obvious that the Bills did not were considering what to do until AFTER Frazier left. As Beane said and reported…. (https://billswire.usatoday.com/lists/takeaways-buffalo-bills-brandon-beane-2023-nfl-combine-draft-leslie-frazier/)



None of that supports the idea that “If your DC leaves, you replace him with another. Unless your plan was to call the plays yourself.” It’s VERY obvious that it is NOT accurate to say the “plan was to call the plays yourself (McDermott)” before Frazier decided to leave.

There is “nothing to discuss” insomuch that the evidence (and logic) does not come close to supporting your narrative. None of the facts (known at this time) do so.

Name all the teams with no DC. There are no others. Again if Frazier left and McD wasn't planning on calling the plays himself, he would have promoted someone so as to prevent "sweeping changes."

As for Beane, he's not going to come out and say "Sean was going to call the plays so Les decided to leave." Nothing he said is incongruous with that scenario and even hinted at it with the "in-house replacement" statement.

[Novacane]

Why does this stupid thread have 8 pages? Frasier was deservedly fired. For cause. Move on.

Because it the boring offseason and one person insists he wasn't

[notacon]

Name all the teams with no DC. There are no others. Again if Frazier left and McD wasn't planning on calling the plays himself, he would have promoted someone so as to prevent "sweeping changes."

As for Beane, he's not going to come out and say "Sean was going to call the plays so Les decided to leave." Nothing he said is incongruous with that scenario and even hinted at it with the "in-house replacement" statement.

Huh?? Sorry, but that makes no sense in light of what actually happened and what I posted that Beane said.

There are a lot of ways to avoid talking about what a GM does not want to talk about. This was not one of those times. Beane is NOT known as a GM that is dishonest or misleading. He was very forthright with the situation, and would have to be a bald faced liar if what he said was not accurate.

When he says "There is a chance head coach Sean McDermott calls plays on defense.” that means that it was not decided (McD calling plays) before Frazier left, and was still undetermined in the days following Frazier telling the team he was taking a leave.


It’s really easy to understand.

Those are the facts based on all the evidence. I guess you can conure up any conspiracy theory you like....does not make it credible, like most conspiracy that are not.

[notacon]

Because it the boring offseason and one person insists he wasn't

:rofl: No....the better and more accurate premise is....

'Because it the boring offseason and one person actually follows the facts and evidence and shoots down a false narrative that is conjured up as a way to crap on an extremely good DC.’

Make no mistake...the whole idea that Frazier was “fired” and did not do exactly what he (and the team) said he did and why, is an effort to smear and denigrate Frazier.

When he did, in fact, take a leave from coaching for one year, that ruins the false narrative of the cynics (that he sucked and deserved to be fired)...so they fight back with even more false narratives that are not based on any facts or evidence but conjured up in their own minds to rationalize their inaccurate narrative.

We see this kind of mindset in a segment of today’s society when conspiracy theorists (although to a larger degree than this subject) put out a wacky theory not supported by any evidence or facts...and that lack of evidence or facts just fuels the conspiracy further as the lack of such proves the conspiracy theory, as in ’the nefarious bad people that are part of the conspiracy are very effective of covering up the facts and evidence.’

It’s a never ending cycle. (https://theconversation.com/how-to-spot-a-conspiracy-theory-when-you-see-one-133574)...



Conspiracy theories are essentially irrefutable: logical contradictions, evidence showing the opposite, even the complete absence of proof have no bearing on the conspiratorial explanation because they can always be accounted for in terms of the conspiracy. The lack of proof about a plot, or any positive proof against its existence, is turned around and taken as evidence of the craftiness of the secret cabal behind the conspiracy. It is seen as confirmation of the conspirators’ ability to conceal their machinations.

[swiper]

:laughing::laughing::assclown::assclown::bs::bs::bs::haha::haha: https://media.tenor.com/images/6742e56145a9fb8b69a659b6a2643132/tenor.gif

[Goobylal]

Huh?? Sorry, but that makes no sense in light of what actually happened and what I posted that Beane said.

There are a lot of ways to avoid talking about what a GM does not want to talk about. This was not one of those times. Beane is NOT known as a GM that is dishonest or misleading. He was very forthright with the situation, and would have to be a bald faced liar if what he said was not accurate.

When he says "There is a chance head coach Sean McDermott calls plays on defense.” that means that it was not decided (McD calling plays) before Frazier left, and was still undetermined in the days following Frazier telling the team he was taking a leave.


It’s really easy to understand.

Those are the facts based on all the evidence. I guess you can conure up any conspiracy theory you like....does not make it credible, like most conspiracy that are not.

The way what actually happened? And again, Beane's not going to say "McD was going to take over play-calling anyway" because it reveals that Frazier was demoted and that's why he left. So he throws out the "maybe McD will call plays..."

[sukie]

Thread title test. Frasier. He was the Psychiatrist on Cheers who moved to Seattle. Had a radio show and a brother named Niles?

yup Not forgotten.

[notacon]

The way what actually happened? And again, Beane's not going to say "McD was going to take over play-calling anyway" because it reveals that Frazier was demoted and that's why he left. So he throws out the "maybe McD will call plays..."
So, you are calling Beane a liar.

How pathetic.

[Goobylal]

So, you are calling Beane a liar.

How pathetic.

It was a white lie so who cares? It gives the impression that Frazier left on his own, which looks better for him than leaving after being demoted.

[notacon]

It was a white lie so who cares? It gives the impression that Frazier left on his own, which looks better for him than leaving after being demoted.

Except there is zero evidence it was a “white lie” or any other kind of lie.


Frazier DID “leave on his own”. There is NO evidence that it was anything other than that.

The purposes of promoting that Beane DID lie or that Frazier did not leave on his own is to denigrate Frazier. That too is pathetic.

[Goobylal]

Except there is zero evidence it was a “white lie” or any other kind of lie.


Frazier DID “leave on his own”. There is NO evidence that it was anything other than that.

The purposes of promoting that Beane DID lie or that Frazier did not leave on his own is to denigrate Frazier. That too is pathetic.

Yes he left on his own. I never said he was fired, just that he was demoted and decided to leave.

And sorry if many of us are denigrating his defensive coaching in the playoffs. I suspect you're trying to make this about something other than that. So now we'll see what McD can do and whether it was right or wrong.

[swiper]

Yes he left on his own. I never said he was fired, just that he was demoted and decided to leave.

And sorry if many of us are denigrating his defensive coaching in the playoffs. I suspect you're trying to make this about something other than that. So now we'll see what McD can do and whether it was right or wrong.

You mean like not letting the CBs play ten yards off the line of scrimmage? LOL.

[notacon]

Yes he left on his own. I never said he was fired, just that he was demoted and decided to leave.

And sorry if many of us are denigrating his defensive coaching in the playoffs. I suspect you're trying to make this about something other than that. So now we'll see what McD can do and whether it was right or wrong.

Except there is also no evidence that he was "demoted and decided to leave”. That too is an attempt to denigrate Frazier when he does not deserve it.

The defense was not at the root of any loss last year. Every loss was mostly on the offense. The “something else” is the unjustified denigration of the defense and Frazier. Losing him is bad for the team.

The chances of the defense being better in 2023 over 2022 is almost a no brainer and will not reflect if the phantom idea that Frazier was “demoted” was “right or wrong". Unless the injury bug is close to what it was last.

If Von Miller is healthy for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....if Micah Hyde plays all year and is healthy for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....and if Tre’ White is 100% recovered....and if Poyer is healthy (healthier than last year where he was struggling with injuries all season) for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....if Elam starts to lay up to the expectation of a first round pick....if the first safety backup, Hamlin, plays and does not die on the field....if Poona Ford and especially Leo Floyd contribute as expected....it would be a massive surprise if the defense took a step backwards.

What we DO know is that the loss of Brain Daboll DID have a negative effect on the offense, and the offense underperforming (despite very, very few injuries) contributed much more to every single lass last season, NOT the defense.

Yeah...the “other thing” is just how obtuse some of the opinions are concentring on denigrating Frazier instead of observing where the real problems and weak spots on the team were.

Frazier was not one of the weak spots. His loss is not good for the Bills.

[YardRat]

All the time. As soon as there is any credible evidence of that, I will reassess my opinion.

As of now, ALL the evidence supports the opposite....and the evidence is what I base my opinion on.

The more important question is...did you ever stop to actually listen and respect all the evidence and think that Frazier did NOT get fired and his statements (and of Beane) of what he did and why are heartfelt and accurate?

It doesn't appear that you are actually looking at 'evidence', you are relying on public rhetoric (testimonial evidence, at best, and that's stretching it) to support the premise.

[Goobylal]

You mean like not letting the CBs play ten yards off the line of scrimmage? LOL.

We'll find out.


Except there is also no evidence that he was "demoted and decided to leave”. That too is an attempt to denigrate Frazier when he does not deserve it.

The defense was not at the root of any loss last year. Every loss was mostly on the offense. The “something else” is the unjustified denigration of the defense and Frazier. Losing him is bad for the team.

The chances of the defense being better in 2023 over 2022 is almost a no brainer and will not reflect if the phantom idea that Frazier was “demoted” was “right or wrong". Unless the injury bug is close to what it was last.

If Von Miller is healthy for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....if Micah Hyde plays all year and is healthy for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....and if Tre’ White is 100% recovered....and if Poyer is healthy (healthier than last year where he was struggling with injuries all season) for most of the season and especially late in the season and playoffs....if Elam starts to lay up to the expectation of a first round pick....if the first safety backup, Hamlin, plays and does not die on the field....if Poona Ford and especially Leo Floyd contribute as expected....it would be a massive surprise if the defense took a step backwards.

What we DO know is that the loss of Brain Daboll DID have a negative effect on the offense, and the offense underperforming (despite very, very few injuries) contributed much more to every single lass last season, NOT the defense.

Yeah...the “other thing” is just how obtuse some of the opinions are concentring on denigrating Frazier instead of observing where the real problems and weak spots on the team were.

Frazier was not one of the weak spots. His loss is not good for the Bills.

Okay then if Frazier didn't leave after a demotion, he quit on the team. Which is worse. You can't have it both ways.

[notacon]

We'll find out.



Okay then if Frazier didn't leave after a demotion, he quit on the team. Which is worse. You can't have it both ways.

:rofl: Seriously?!?!? Neither. What a dumb question and even worse false ‘either or’ lame scenario.

[Goobylal]

:rofl: Seriously?!?!? Neither. What a dumb question and even worse false ‘either or’ lame scenario.

Sorry but he was either demoted and left or he quit on the team. Decide which version you want to believe.

[sukie]

He was taken away from the Bills by the Lord.

[notacon]

Sorry but he was either demoted and left or he quit on the team. Decide which version you want to believe.

Sorry, but this is so lame.

In fact, this dishonest method has a name...”False Dilemma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma)”

[Goobylal]

Sorry, but this is so lame.

In fact, this dishonest method has a name...”False Dilemma (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma)”

You said he wasn't demoted/fired. So that means he quit. What other explanation is there?

[notacon]

You said he wasn't demoted/fired. So that means he quit. What other explanation is there?
Taking a leave.....taking a break.

In any event, your term “quitting on the team” has negative emotional connotations that are meant to denigrate.

[sukie]

Taking a leave /break means coming back. Frazier himself said “had a good career” meaning if not a HC… he is done. Either coaching or in Buffalo.

if coming back “he I’m gonna continue my career .”

[Historian]

Maybe he has Vermeilitis....

[jamze132]

Taking a leave.....taking a break.

In any event, your term “quitting on the team” has negative emotional connotations that are meant to denigrate.

You really suck at “reading between the lines” don’t you…

It’s only two options and “taking a break” is quitting. So he was either fired or he quit…it’s that simple. He had a job, and now he doesn’t. Not sure how else to put it.

[swiper]

The resident big mouth talks himself into a corner, yet again.

:rofl:

[notacon]

You really suck at “reading between the lines” don’t you…

It’s only two options and “taking a break” is quitting. So he was either fired or he quit…it’s that simple. He had a job, and now he doesn’t. Not sure how else to put it.
Of course you don’t understand, because you don’t want to.

It’s all about denigrating Frazier. When he does not deserve to be denigrated.

He did a fantastic job as the Bills DC for years. His loss is huge and does nothing to help the TEAM.

[Goobylal]

Of course you don’t understand, because you don’t want to.

It’s all about denigrating Frazier. When he does not deserve to be denigrated.

He did a fantastic job as the Bills DC for years. His loss is huge and does nothing to help the TEAM.

We'll find out this season. It's why I find people saying we need to move on from McD right now funny, but admittedly I might not be laughing at the end of the season.

[jamze132]

Of course you don’t understand, because you don’t want to.

It’s all about denigrating Frazier. When he does not deserve to be denigrated.

He did a fantastic job as the Bills DC for years. His loss is huge and does nothing to help the TEAM.

I’m not denigrating him. He did an OK job. Don’t run from your argument…he quit or was fired. It’s really that simple and you’re doubling down on a stupid premise like you always do.

[Goobylal]

I’m not denigrating him. He did an OK job. Don’t run from your argument…he quit or was fired. It’s really that simple and you’re doubling down on a stupid premise like you always do.

I'm willing to say that McD felt there needed to be a change on defense and there was a mutual parting of the ways after Frazier was demoted. Whether it proves to have been the correct move remains to be seen. I find that far more palatable than believing he quit and left McD with no alternative but to call plays, which is far-fetched anyway since you can easily promote from within, at least.

[Mace]

Beane is straight up. Frazier will be back if he chooses...he took a leave...wasn't demoted or fired. I wish they booted him....they did not. Rest is conspiracy theory. Let it go....see what happens and go from there. It's common sense.

[swiper]

Beane is straight up. Frazier will be back if he chooses...he took a leave...wasn't demoted or fired. I wish they booted him....they did not. Rest is conspiracy theory. Let it go....see what happens and go from there. It's common sense.

A guy that takes a leave doesn't get to shop himself to three other teams as Frazier did. He was clearly fired. Beane, respectfully, told the public he was taking a leave. Period. Frazier not coming back. He and that Tony Dungy defense are passe.

[Goobylal]

A guy that takes a leave doesn't get to shop himself to three other teams as Frazier did. He was clearly fired. Beane, respectfully, told the public he was taking a leave. Period. Frazier not coming back. He and that Tony Dungy defense are passe.

I have no doubt they'd take him back. But he wouldn't be calling plays. So he won't come back.

[notacon]

I’m not denigrating him. He did an OK job. Don’t run from your argument…he quit or was fired. It’s really that simple and you’re doubling down on a stupid premise like you always do.

You still don’t understand because you don’t want to.

Frazier took a leave...a time out from coaching...a step back. He did not really “quit”, or that would have been what was expressed.

BUT, even if he DID “quit” (which he did not) the way to frame the narrative in a negative and denigrating way is to say he “quit on the team”.

IF he did quit, he quit his job, not “on the team”. There are huge differences. Again, I don't expect you to understand because your obsession with me overrides common sense and reality.

My premie is FAR from “stupid”. It’s spot on (from everything we know).

[notacon]

I have no doubt they'd take him back. But he wouldn't be calling plays. So he won't come back.

More lame speculation that is ignorant (as in you have NO IDEA....NONE). Just another way to denigrate one of the best DC in the NFL.

[Goobylal]

You still don’t understand because you don’t want to.

Frazier took a leave...a time out from coaching...a step back. He did not really “quit”, or that would have been what was expressed.

BUT, even if he DID “quit” (which he did not) the way to frame the narrative in a negative and denigrating way is to say he “quit on the team”.

IF he did quit, he quit his job, not “on the team”. There are huge differences. Again, I don't expect you to understand because your obsession with me overrides common sense and reality.

My premie is FAR from “stupid”. It’s spot on (from everything we know).


More lame speculation that is ignorant (as in you have NO IDEA....NONE). Just another way to denigrate one of the best DC in the NFL.

Actions speak louder than words. McD taking over play-calling and not hiring/promoting someone to DC is all the idea I need.

[sukie]

More lame speculation that is ignorant (as in you have NO IDEA....NONE). Just another way to denigrate one of the best former DCs in the NFL.
Fixed

[jamze132]

You still don’t understand because you don’t want to.

Frazier took a leave...a time out from coaching...a step back. He did not really “quit”, or that would have been what was expressed.

BUT, even if he DID “quit” (which he did not) the way to frame the narrative in a negative and denigrating way is to say he “quit on the team”.

IF he did quit, he quit his job, not “on the team”. There are huge differences. Again, I don't expect you to understand because your obsession with me overrides common sense and reality.

My premie is FAR from “stupid”. It’s spot on (from everything we know).

Love how you’re creating some false narrative that I said he “quit on the team”. Classic naivecon.

[notacon]

Love how you’re creating some false narrative that I said he “quit on the team”. Classic naivecon.

Lame.

It’s fairly clear that Gooby was the one that wrote the “quitting on the team” garbage. And then you had to stick your nose into it by YOU quoting (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5031229&viewfull=1#post5031229) my objection to the “quitting on the team” baloney which was an implicit support of that stupid assertion.

Classic jamze.

[notacon]

Actions speak louder than words. McD taking over play-calling and not hiring/promoting someone to DC is all the idea I need.

Except you FAIL in the time line, which does NOT support your speculation.

The facts are all I need that ALL support my assertion.

[Goobylal]

Except you FAIL in the time line, which does NOT support your speculation.

The facts are all I need that ALL support my assertion.

What timeline?

[cas22]

do any of you all really no what happened???? I mean really common sense wise.????

[Goobylal]

do any of you all really no what happened???? I mean really common sense wise.????

No one knows for sure. I have a good idea what happened.

[jamze132]

Lame.

It’s fairly clear that Gooby was the one that wrote the “quitting on the team” garbage. And then you had to stick your nose into it by YOU quoting (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5031229&viewfull=1#post5031229) my objection to the “quitting on the team” baloney which was an implicit support of that stupid assertion.

Classic jamze.

I mean you “quoted” me in your response so what is one supposed to believe? You’re good at creating false narratives and the entire board knows it.

[notacon]

I mean you “quoted” me in your response so what is one supposed to believe? You’re good at creating false narratives and the entire board knows it.

Give it up dude. So silly and infantile.

Thee is NO “false narrative” I have created. It’s an accurate narrative based on ALL the facts and evidence that we have. I know that’s hard for you to accept, but that’s the way it is.

[notacon]

What timeline?

Frazier was excepted back as DC, with no change to anything as far as we know.

THEN he decided to step away....and when he did, Beane said that who was going to call the plays was UNDECIDED!!! Beane also said that Frazier could have stayed if he wanted to.

There is ZERO evidence that play calling was being pulled, and ZERO evidence that he was fired.

It is completely logical that at the lateness of the off season (last day of Feb when Frazier announced he was taking year off) and all the coaching positions (especially HC, DC and OC) are all denied and filled and planning is already taking place for the next season.

To maintain the continuity of the McDermott/Frazier defensive scheme, it is smart for McDermott to NOT promote from within and especially NOT to go outside the organization for a DC.

THAT would signal a 100% CHANGE in defensive philosophy. Any new guy would want operational control.

This is simple stuff. And makes total sense.

Your speculation is based on nothing except your own fantasy and (I suspect) dislike for Frazier, which is, in and of itself, misguided at best.

When any other facts come out it will be time to reconsider. I seriously doubt there ever will be because the story from the team itself, and reporting from many reporters that have very close ties within the Bills organization are all saying pretty much the same thing.

[Goobylal]

Frazier was excepted back as DC, with no change to anything as far as we know.

THEN he decided to step away....and when he did, Beane said that who was going to call the plays was UNDECIDED!!! Beane also said that Frazier could have stayed if he wanted to.

There is ZERO evidence that play calling was being pulled, and ZERO evidence that he was fired.

It is completely logical that at the lateness of the off season (last day of Feb when Frazier announced he was taking year off) and all the coaching positions (especially HC, DC and OC) are all denied and filled and planning is already taking place for the next season.

To maintain the continuity of the McDermott/Frazier defensive scheme, it is smart for McDermott to NOT promote from within and especially NOT to go outside the organization for a DC.

THAT would signal a 100% CHANGE in defensive philosophy. Any new guy would want operational control.

This is simple stuff. And makes total sense.

Your speculation is based on nothing except your own fantasy and (I suspect) dislike for Frazier, which is, in and of itself, misguided at best.

When any other facts come out it will be time to reconsider. I seriously doubt there ever will be because the story from the team itself, and reporting from many reporters that have very close ties within the Bills organization are all saying pretty much the same thing.

That's your only "fact." But it was a lie since McD was always going to take over play-calling, it just hadn't been announced publicly as a favor to Frazier since everyone would know why he left. And Frazier also lied when he said he was going to take a year off because he was interviewing with 3 teams just months later.

And the idea that promoting from within wouldn't have led to continuity is absurd. No if McD truly hadn't planned on taking over play-calling, he would at least have promoted from within. And again waiting as long as he did again only make Frazier loo bad for delaying his announcement until after all the good coordinators were gone.

So again, take your pick. Frazier is a liar who quit on the team and left them in the lurch...or he had play-calling taken away, left because of it, and the Bills did everything they could to prevent the truth from getting out.

[Mace]

That's your only "fact." But it was a lie since McD was always going to take over play-calling, it just hadn't been announced publicly as a favor to Frazier since everyone would know why he left. And Frazier also lied when he said he was going to take a year off because he was interviewing with 3 teams just months later.

And the idea that promoting from within wouldn't have led to continuity is absurd. No if McD truly hadn't planned on taking over play-calling, he would at least have promoted from within. And again waiting as long as he did again only make Frazier loo bad for delaying his announcement until after all the good coordinators were gone.

So again, take your pick. Frazier is a liar who quit on the team and left them in the lurch...or he had play-calling taken away, left because of it, and the Bills did everything they could to prevent the truth from getting out.

Have to agree with Nottie. Beane saying playcalling was undecided and the delay in McD saying he'd do so was clearly unplanned. And Frazier still has his job if he wants it according to Beane without statement of playcalling. Beane is straight up...this caught them off guard.

[Goobylal]

Have to agree with Nottie. Beane saying playcalling was undecided and the delay in McD saying he'd do so was clearly unplanned. And Frazier still has his job if he wants it according to Beane without statement of playcalling. Beane is straight up...this caught them off guard.

Frazier interviewing for jobs pretty much proves he got demoted and left as a result. Why else would he leave the Bills if he still wanted to work in 2023?

As for Beane, he didn't technically lie because McD hadn't officially assumed play-calling duties. And how hard would it have been to promote someone from within? I have no doubt they've been grooming someone, like they groomed Dorsey, figuring/hoping Frazier would get a HC'ing job somewhere like Daboll did.

[jamze132]

Yeah you don’t “take a year off from coaching” then interview with other teams. Someone is lying.

[Kenny]

Yeah you don’t “take a year off from coaching” then interview with other teams. Someone is lying.

Exactly. The other end of the spectrum is that he was going to get fired if he interviewed for other jobs, but that doesnt make sense as he interviewed for other jobs in the past.
So the only remaining scenario was he was given the choice of being either demoted/fired or let him save face by 'taking the year off'.

[cas22]

No one knows for sure. I have a good idea what happened..

its obvious that McD wanted to make a defensive change to the scheme and Frazier didn't agree so in a nice way he walked,, instead of telling the truth they came up with he is taking a year off... just tell the truth,,, same **** is happening with the Diggs saga....

[notacon]

Yeah you don’t “take a year off from coaching” then interview with other teams. Someone is lying.

Except he did NOT “interview with other teams”. THAT is the LIE.

[notacon]

That's your only "fact." But it was a lie since McD was always going to take over play-calling, it just hadn't been announced publicly as a favor to Frazier since everyone would know why he left. And Frazier also lied when he said he was going to take a year off because he was interviewing with 3 teams just months later.

And the idea that promoting from within wouldn't have led to continuity is absurd. No if McD truly hadn't planned on taking over play-calling, he would at least have promoted from within. And again waiting as long as he did again only make Frazier loo bad for delaying his announcement until after all the good coordinators were gone.

So again, take your pick. Frazier is a liar who quit on the team and left them in the lurch...or he had play-calling taken away, left because of it, and the Bills did everything they could to prevent the truth from getting out.
You are making **** up again. All to denigrate Leslie Frazier. How pathetic.

Sorry, but calling all the principles that spoke in pubic "liars” shows how weak your lame argument is.

The FACT is that you have NOTHING to back up your false narrative. NOTHING except what pops into your own head.

All the facts, everything that has been said in public, almost all the insiders (that I have read...dish up some that don’t) back up the narrative that I have presented...which is also the most logical and common sense.

I have gone over this many times, and nothing I have written has been refuted with anything except speculation and lame conjecture.

You can believe what you want to believe I guess. I have all the facts on my side.

[notacon]

Frazier interviewing for jobs pretty much proves he got demoted and left as a result. Why else would he leave the Bills if he still wanted to work in 2023?

As for Beane, he didn't technically lie because McD hadn't officially assumed play-calling duties. And how hard would it have been to promote someone from within? I have no doubt they've been grooming someone, like they groomed Dorsey, figuring/hoping Frazier would get a HC'ing job somewhere like Daboll did.

Once AGAIN, Frazier DID NOT “interview with other teams”. That is a LIE!!!!! Just STOP with the lies.

[notacon]

Have to agree with Nottie. Beane saying playcalling was undecided and the delay in McD saying he'd do so was clearly unplanned. And Frazier still has his job if he wants it according to Beane without statement of playcalling. Beane is straight up...this caught them off guard.

+1

Duh!!!! Of course, clear headed intellectual honesty points to no other conclusion.

Bias and built in negativity directed toward one of the best DC’s in the NFL is the only way one comes to any different conclusion.

Calling everyone a liar is not an argument...it’s rationalization and lame excuses. The same kind of bullcrap we’ve had to put up with since Nov 3, 2020.

[Goobylal]

You are making **** up again. All to denigrate Leslie Frazier. How pathetic.

Sorry, but calling all the principles that spoke in pubic "liars” shows how weak your lame argument is.

The FACT is that you have NOTHING to back up your false narrative. NOTHING except what pops into your own head.

All the facts, everything that has been said in public, almost all the insiders (that I have read...dish up some that don’t) back up the narrative that I have presented...which is also the most logical and common sense.

I have gone over this many times, and nothing I have written has been refuted with anything except speculation and lame conjecture.

You can believe what you want to believe I guess. I have all the facts on my side.

You have no facts at all. All you have is Beane saying play-calling hadn't been (officially) decided yer and that they'd like him back. However he never said play-calling hadn't been taken away from him or that they wanted him back in his previous capacity. Do you see how that works?

And the timeline is that Al Holcomb was hired before Frazier left, as a "senior defensive assistant." Who does that sound like? And then Frazier left. It's pretty obvious to everyone here what happened. You are the lone holdout because you just don't want to admit it.

Again we'll see if McD made the right decision in pushing-out Frazier. If it blows up in his face you can have the last laugh.

[jamze132]

Except he did NOT “interview with other teams”. THAT is the LIE.

https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/.amp/news/former-bills-dc-leslie-frazier-visits-giants

[notacon]

https://www.si.com/nfl/giants/.amp/news/former-bills-dc-leslie-frazier-visits-giants

Once again, as on another thread, you are proving nothing. I already explained this in great detail right here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5027780&viewfull=1#post5027780).....TWICE (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031620&viewfull=1#post5031620)....and you already tried to present a link without any explanation on how it refutes anything that I wrote and I shot that down quite easily (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031714&viewfull=1#post5031714) too because it was insipid and lame.

Because you can’t.

Give it up.

[notacon]

You have no facts at all. All you have is Beane saying play-calling hadn't been (officially) decided yer and that they'd like him back. However he never said play-calling hadn't been taken away from him or that they wanted him back in his previous capacity. Do you see how that works?

And the timeline is that Al Holcomb was hired before Frazier left, as a "senior defensive assistant." Who does that sound like? And then Frazier left. It's pretty obvious to everyone here what happened. You are the lone holdout because you just don't want to admit it.

Again we'll see if McD made the right decision in pushing-out Frazier. If it blows up in his face you can have the last laugh.


I have all the facts, and you have none.


All you have is speculation and conjecture.....ALL based on accusing many Bills people and professional media insiders of LYING!!!

I have proven it over and over and over again.

This is really tiresome and boring. As soon as there is any facts that refute my premise....wake me up.

It's so fruitless talking to brick walls.

It’s also a lie that "You are the lone holdout because you just don't want to admit it.”. Mace agree with me (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5031568&viewfull=1#post5031568)....and I suspect a lot more do that do not necessarily post here. Certainly professional sports media insiders with close ties to the Bills agree with ME, not you or the other cynics.

This has nothing to do with getting the “last laugh”…it’s about facts and truth.

I do not doubt that the Bills defense will be just fine this year, because the defensive scheme was the result of a tight meshing of defensive philosophy between McDermott and Frazier. (Besides the chances of the overwhelming rash of devastating injures last year will probably not be repeated)

The defense was not designed in a vacuum, and neither was the play calling. THAT is why McD decided to maintain continuity and just call the plays himself....AFTER Frazier informed them of his decision to take a year off.

The reasons why Frazier decided to take a leave is pretty clearly his frustration with not getting an opportunity at a HC position, in part, because of the known issue with the dearth of Black HC’s in the NFL. Sensitive to this after seeing his white fellow co-ordinator get the job they both interviewed for.....and the law suit filed by Flores which highlights a very insidious problem within the NFL.

It really is simple to understand.

Your whole premise relies on so many people blatantly lying. It’s insufferable.

I’ll pay attention when anything comes out that refutes the known facts.

[notacon]

BTW....you do understand what “conjecture” and “speculation” mean????

“Conjecture” is defined as “an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information”

“Speculation” is defined as “the forming of a theory of conjecture without firm evidence”

The anti-Frazier baloney coming form the usual suspects is the epitome of speculation and conjecture.

[Goobylal]

I have all the facts, and you have none.


All you have is speculation and conjecture.....ALL based on accusing many Bills people and professional media insiders of LYING!!!

I have proven it over and over and over again.

This is really tiresome and boring. As soon as there is any facts that refute my premise....wake me up.

It's so fruitless talking to brick walls.

It’s also a lie that "You are the lone holdout because you just don't want to admit it.”. Mace agree with me (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5031568&viewfull=1#post5031568)....and I suspect a lot more do that do not necessarily post here. Certainly professional sports media insiders with close ties to the Bills agree with ME, not you or the other cynics.

This has nothing to do with getting the “last laugh”…it’s about facts and truth.

I do not doubt that the Bills defense will be just fine this year, because the defensive scheme was the result of a tight meshing of defensive philosophy between McDermott and Frazier. (Besides the chances of the overwhelming rash of devastating injures last year will probably not be repeated)

The defense was not designed in a vacuum, and neither was the play calling. THAT is why McD decided to maintain continuity and just call the plays himself....AFTER Frazier informed them of his decision to take a year off.

The reasons why Frazier decided to take a leave is pretty clearly his frustration with not getting an opportunity at a HC position, in part, because of the known issue with the dearth of Black HC’s in the NFL. Sensitive to this after seeing his white fellow co-ordinator get the job they both interviewed for.....and the law suit filed by Flores which highlights a very insidious problem within the NFL.

It really is simple to understand.

Your whole premise relies on so many people blatantly lying. It’s insufferable.

I’ll pay attention when anything comes out that refutes the known facts.

Fine, no one lied. Al Holcomb was hired as a "senior defensive consultant" to replace Frazier and Beane saying they don't know who is calling plays among McD, Holcomb or someone else was the truth. Happy now?

[jamze132]

Once again, as on another thread, you are proving nothing. I already explained this in great detail right here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5027780&viewfull=1#post5027780).....TWICE (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031620&viewfull=1#post5031620)....and you already tried to present a link without any explanation on how it refutes anything that I wrote and I shot that down quite easily (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031714&viewfull=1#post5031714) too because it was insipid and lame.

Because you can’t.

Give it up.

What do you call it when he talks to other teams after quitting or being fired?

[notacon]

What do you call it when he talks to other teams after quitting or being fired?

I already explained it several times. I even linked to the explanations in the post you just quoted (right here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5027780&viewfull=1#post5027780).....TWICE (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031620&viewfull=1#post5031620).).

I just posted another (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031803&viewfull=1#post5031803) reasonable, well thought out, logical, accurate and common sense explaining again. Looks like I have to repeat myself again....

Frazier’s overriding goal is to get a HC position. It is no secret. He interviewed for several HC jobs in the past (REAL formal interviews, which have a specific meaning in the NFL, not just visits), and like many very qualified Black candidates, got passed over by White owners hiring White coaches.

The hiring process for HC is warped in the NFL (besides the absurd dearth of Black HC’s) in that the interview and hiring frenzy starts the day after the regular season ends (when almost all of the HC opening take place), while all the better teams are getting ready for the playoffs.

Despite playoff coaches interviewing for HC jobs DURING the playoffs (which is insane) the further a team stays in the playoffs the bigger the disadvantage for getting hired as a HC.

Most of the HC jobs are filled while the playoffs are still being played out.

As I mentioned (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031620&viewfull=1#post5031620) above….in fact, the dedicated effort by the NFL to have more Black HC’s is based on “increased exposure between owners, executives, and diverse coaching talent, providing ample opportunity to develop and build upon their relationships.”.

That is what the “Rooney Rule (https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/how-effective-is-the-nfls-rooney-rule-and-why-does-it-exist/367068/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20Rooney%20Rule,other%20positions%20and%20more%20provisions.)" is all about. The hope that qualified Black coaches interacting via interviews with (almost) all white owners would foster relationships for future openings, or when owners get together and they talk about the interaction they had with this or that Black coach.

Frazier taking a year off was obviously to further that goal to be considered for a HC job for 2024 by “increased exposure” to owners and teams…which he could only do if he was not occupied with the 14 to 16-hour day, seven days a week job of DC on a contending team.

That time off gave him a better opportunity to attend the NFL coach accelerator program, and to visit clubs during their OTA’s…and, as Frazier also said he is planning on doing….visiting teams during training camp.

An impossibility while doing the job of DC.

“Taking things at face value” means taking things at face value which is pretty easy to do concerning the Frazier situation since he told us what he was going to do, and then did it…..and the narrative was verified by Beane and sports media insiders close to the club.

NOT taking things at face value means assuming that many people with integrity are lying through their teeth over and over again.

You can keep your fingers in your ears....yelling “LA, LA, LA, LA, LA” so as to not listen to the facts or you can use the stuff in between your ears and actually put some seisms thought into the situation.

Your choice. I can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink (https://writingexplained.org/idiom-dictionary/you-can-lead-a-horse-to-water).

[Woodman]

What do you call it when he talks to other teams after quitting or being fired?

:scratch: Interview!

[Kenny]

Frazier taking a year off was obviously to further that goal to be considered for a HC job for 2024 by “increased exposure” to owners and teams…which he could only do if he was not occupied with the 14 to 16-hour day, seven days a week job of DC on a contending team.


So he quit his current job because his job kept him too busy, so he could prepare for a job that would make him even more busy?
I'm sure that looks great to future employers.

[Woodman]

So he quit his current job because his job kept him too busy, so he could prepare for a job that would make him even more busy?
I'm sure that looks great to future employers.
:pray: Somebody please take a shot.

[jamze132]

I already explained it several times. I even linked to the explanations in the post you just quoted (right here (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263207-Frazier-gone-but-not-forgotten?p=5027780&viewfull=1#post5027780).....TWICE (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031620&viewfull=1#post5031620).).

I just posted another (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031803&viewfull=1#post5031803) reasonable, well thought out, logical, accurate and common sense explaining again. Looks like I have to repeat myself again....

Frazier’s overriding goal is to get a HC position. It is no secret. He interviewed for several HC jobs in the past (REAL formal interviews, which have a specific meaning in the NFL, not just visits), and like many very qualified Black candidates, got passed over by White owners hiring White coaches.

The hiring process for HC is warped in the NFL (besides the absurd dearth of Black HC’s) in that the interview and hiring frenzy starts the day after the regular season ends (when almost all of the HC opening take place), while all the better teams are getting ready for the playoffs.

Despite playoff coaches interviewing for HC jobs DURING the playoffs (which is insane) the further a team stays in the playoffs the bigger the disadvantage for getting hired as a HC.

Most of the HC jobs are filled while the playoffs are still being played out.

As I mentioned (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263316-Leslie-Frazier-visits-with-Packers-Commanders-Giants?p=5031620&viewfull=1#post5031620) above….in fact, the dedicated effort by the NFL to have more Black HC’s is based on “increased exposure between owners, executives, and diverse coaching talent, providing ample opportunity to develop and build upon their relationships.”.

That is what the “Rooney Rule (https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/nfl/philadelphia-eagles/how-effective-is-the-nfls-rooney-rule-and-why-does-it-exist/367068/#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20Rooney%20Rule,other%20positions%20and%20more%20provisions.)" is all about. The hope that qualified Black coaches interacting via interviews with (almost) all white owners would foster relationships for future openings, or when owners get together and they talk about the interaction they had with this or that Black coach.

Frazier taking a year off was obviously to further that goal to be considered for a HC job for 2024 by “increased exposure” to owners and teams…which he could only do if he was not occupied with the 14 to 16-hour day, seven days a week job of DC on a contending team.

That time off gave him a better opportunity to attend the NFL coach accelerator program, and to visit clubs during their OTA’s…and, as Frazier also said he is planning on doing….visiting teams during training camp.

An impossibility while doing the job of DC.

“Taking things at face value” means taking things at face value which is pretty easy to do concerning the Frazier situation since he told us what he was going to do, and then did it…..and the narrative was verified by Beane and sports media insiders close to the club.

NOT taking things at face value means assuming that many people with integrity are lying through their teeth over and over again.

You can keep your fingers in your ears....yelling “LA, LA, LA, LA, LA” so as to not listen to the facts or you can use the stuff in between your ears and actually put some seisms thought into the situation.

Your choice. I can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink (https://writingexplained.org/idiom-dictionary/you-can-lead-a-horse-to-water).

So Frazier quit because he’s black… and needs an assist…because the white man is keeping him down? Is that now your premise? :rofl:

[Goobylal]

So Frazier quit because he’s black… and needs an assist…because the white man is keeping him down? Is that now your premise? :rofl:

I always felt nottie was trying to make it a racial thing, i.e. that Frazier is being made the scapegoat because he's black. Not everything is racist and the guy who was hired to replace him is black.

As for Frazier specifically, he's in no different a spot than most HC prospects when it comes to timing of interviews. They are usually a coordinator on a successful team, i.e. playoff team. Frazier's problems are a) he's over 60, when teams are looking to hire younger guys and b) he's already been a HC before and didn't have great results.

[sukie]

When do we get to “AND forgotten”?

[notacon]

I always felt nottie was trying to make it a racial thing, i.e. that Frazier is being made the scapegoat because he's black. Not everything is racist and the guy who was hired to replace him is black.

As for Frazier specifically, he's in no different a spot than most HC prospects when it comes to timing of interviews. They are usually a coordinator on a successful team, i.e. playoff team. Frazier's problems are a) he's over 60, when teams are looking to hire younger guys and b) he's already been a HC before and didn't have great results.

What?!?! It IS a (almost assuredly at least in large part) “racial thing”!!!! Have you been living in a ****ing cave????

The NFL has a PROFOUND problem with lack of Black HC’s. In a league that is majorly non-white and majority Black players.

It’s been an issue for DECADES!!!! Same with the lack of Black QB’s. It’s a systemic problem that starts in high schools and college. It is ASTOUNDING that in 56 years of the Super Bowl era, 2023 was the FIRST YEAR EVER that saw two Black QB’s starting.

Black QB’s are still an anomaly because they are shunned from that position at a young age by white coaches. This is a fact.

It became more and more difficult to exclude Black QB’s because in order to WIN, GM’s and coaches will do anything. The tales and advantage of Black QB’s became too much to deny. But, OWNERS (mostly) hire head coaches. Not GM’s.

NFL HC’s are even more disadvantaged because the overwhelming majority of owners are White (all but ONE, Shahid Khan, Jax is Pakistani American) and and have been almost ALL White since the start of the NFL. White owners tend to gravitate to people they know....which is other White guys.

It’s not like stats and film of a player where the talent is undeniable. Quality of HC's is a lot more nuanced. Owners need to feel comfortable with their HC, and that means more White guys. That’s the whole connect behind the Rooney Rule....get more Black coaches interacting with Black coaches.

Amazingly, FORTY PERCENT or THIRTEEN NFL teams have NEVER had a Black head coach. Buffalo Bills are one of them.

Here are some more disturbing facts that illustrate that color of skin is a HUGE obstacle for NFL HC’s...


Same ol’ same ol': No progress for Black head coaches in NFL (https://apnews.com/article/indianapolis-colts-arizona-cardinals-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-sports-2e683defd534a6996b9eb02dc11910bd)



After completing the latest round of coaching hires this week, the NFL won’t look much different on the sidelines in 2023.
DeMeco Ryans was the lone Black candidate to land one of the five openings, which means the 32-team league remains stuck at just three Black coaches heading toward a new season for the fifth year in a row.


The NFL also maintained the status quo with six minority head coaches, which includes Miami’s Mike McDaniel, who has a Black father and identifies as multiracial.


It remains a stubbornly low number in a league where nearly 57% of the players are Black and more that 69% are minorities, according to the Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport at the University of Central Florida.


“It’s certainly discouraging,” said Richard Lapchick, who heads the institute. ”I have no doubt the league is trying to make a push to strengthen its policies ... but the record is the record.”

Three Black candidates stand out after all openings from the recently completed season were filled.

— Steve Wilks took over as Carolina’s interim coach when Matt Rhule was fired and nearly guided to the Panthers to the playoffs. That wasn’t enough to land the full-time job (https://apnews.com/article/miami-dolphins-detroit-lions-arizona-cardinals-carolina-panthers-nfl-192528c21d65b45bc370401470ad4c6f), which went to Frank Reich (https://apnews.com/article/new-orleans-saints-buffalo-bills-philadelphia-eagles-indianapolis-colts-detroit-lions-7fb5f1ba282fe28d3e710afb0e9a387a), a white coach who was fired in the midst of this past season by the Colts. Wilks, who was dumped by Arizona after just one season in his previous head coaching opportunity, is now San Francisco’s defensive coordinator.

— Former Miami head coach Brian Flores (https://apnews.com/article/nfl-super-bowl-sports-brian-flores-justin-jefferson-d021a79dafc0095fa1eac319024c53d6) was among the candidates for the Cardinals’ job after the firing of Kliff Kingsbury. But Flores pulled himself out of the mix, instead accepting an offer as Minnesota’s defensive coordinator because “it was a great chance for growing.” It’s not clear if he would have gotten the Arizona job, which instead went to Philadelphia defensive coordinator Jonathan Gannon.

— Kansas City offensive coordinator Eric Bieniemy, who is annually touted as one of the top Black head coaching candidates, was passed over again — even after the Chiefs won their second Super Bowl title in four years (https://apnews.com/article/super-bowl-2023-kansas-city-chiefs-philadelphia-eagles-43a1fb387f63438c1eea23b6a4244d95). This time, it was even more striking because both coordinators for the team they beat in the big game wound up with head coaching jobs. Philadelphia offensive coordinator Shane Steichen (https://apnews.com/article/philadelphia-eagles-indianapolis-colts-nfl-sports-football-5afb2eb0265e6f2fbf09d6de4124a46c) was tapped by the Indianapolis Colts.


…snip….

Over the last five hiring cycles, a total of 33 non-interim jobs opened up around the league. Just five of those went to Black coaches — three of them hired by the Texans.

That group also included Flores, who took over the Dolphins heading into the 2019 season — and was fired just three years later despite two straight winning marks. He has since sued the NFL for discrimination (https://apnews.com/article/brian-flores-pittsburgh-steelers-miami-dolphins-new-york-giants-denver-broncos-a1dbc032c04eaba1e31f80dcbdf2b321).

The only other Black coach hired during that timeframe was Tampa Bay’s Todd Bowles, who took over last March after Bruce Arians unexpectedly retired (https://apnews.com/article/super-bowl-arizona-cardinals-tampa-bay-buccaneers-tom-brady-nfl-66bafebc650fcb12e57217db66bc2e1c). Bowles is set to return for his second season with the Bucs despite a disappointing 2022 campaign.

With Ryans, Bowles and longtime Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin set to guide teams next season, the NFL remains at just three Black head coaches — the same number it had at the beginning of the last four seasons.

“To go up and go down, that’s normal,” Lapchick said. “But it’s stagnated at a low point for way too long.”

Despite efforts by the NFL to provide more exposure to minority candidates, the owners and front offices seem stubbornly resistant to giving Black coaches a chance.

In fact, the league seems to be going backward — or, at best, stuck in neutral.


…snip…


“When so many people in leadership positions across the league are white, they are going to disproportionately socialize, network, and therefore hire other white people,” she said. “Additionally, as a society, many of the qualities that we associate with leadership, especially in sports, are tied to whiteness, making white coaches appear to be better candidates.”


…snip…


It’s a far cry from the 2006 season, when the NFL seemingly had a huge breakthrough. There were seven Black head coaches that year, and two of them met in the Super Bowl for the first time ever.

When Tony Dungy’s Indianapolis Colts defeated Smith’s Chicago Bears in the title game, minority coaches appeared to be the biggest winners. No one could deny that Black coaches could do the job as well as their white counterparts.

Tomlin took over the Steelers the following season, and went on to lead them to a Super Bowl title, but the league has yet to surpass its high-water mark of seven Black head coaches.

By 2013, there were only three Black coaches a the start of the season. The number climbed back to seven in 2017 and remained at that level to start the following year.

Then, five Black coaches were let go during or after the 2018 season: Cleveland’s Hue Jackson, Bowles of the New York Jets, Denver’s Vance Joseph, Cincinnati’s Marvin Lewis, and Wilks by the Cardinals.

With Flores being the only new Black coach hired for the 2019 season, the overall number dropped to three.

It’s been there ever since, not counting interim coaches.


…snip…


Tampa Bay is the lone team that’s had four Black head coaches, with Bowles preceded by Dungy (1996-2001), Raheem Morris (2009-11) and Smith (2014-15).

Only two other teams — Houston and the Raiders (who twice gave Shell the job) — have hired Black head coaches three times.

Thirteen teams, roughly 40% of the league’s franchises, have never had a Black non-interim coach: Atlanta, Baltimore, Buffalo, Carolina, Dallas, Jacksonville, the Los Angeles Rams, New England, New Orleans, the New York Giants, Seattle, Tennessee and Washington.




Eric Bieniemy is the glaring example of the insane lack of Black head coshes.

He is OC for the best offensive team in the NFL with TWO ****ING SUPER BOWL RINGS!!!!

That is usually cat nip for win starved owners.

Yet….he is passed over year after year.

You may want to ignore the ELEPHANT in the room….I am not. And neither are ANY of the Black players and coaches An ex-players and coaches) in the NFL. They are all painfully aware of exactly is going on.

[Goobylal]

What?!?! It IS a (almost assuredly at least in large part) “racial thing”!!!! Have you been living in a ****ing cave????

The NFL has a PROFOUND problem with lack of Black HC’s. In a league that is majorly non-white and majority Black players.

It’s been an issue for DECADES!!!! Same with the lack of Black QB’s. It’s a systemic problem that starts in high schools and college. It is ASTOUNDING that in 56 years of the Super Bowl era, 2023 was the FIRST YEAR EVER that saw two Black QB’s starting.

Black QB’s are still an anomaly because they are shunned from that position at a young age by white coaches. This is a fact.

It became more and more difficult to exclude Black QB’s because in order to WIN, GM’s and coaches will do anything. The tales and advantage of Black QB’s became too much to deny. But, OWNERS (mostly) hire head coaches. Not GM’s.

NFL HC’s are even more disadvantaged because the overwhelming majority of owners are White (all but ONE, Shahid Khan, Jax is Pakistani American) and and have been almost ALL White since the start of the NFL. White owners tend to gravitate to people they know....which is other White guys.

It’s not like stats and film of a player where the talent is undeniable. Quality of HC's is a lot more nuanced. Owners need to feel comfortable with their HC, and that means more White guys. That’s the whole connect behind the Rooney Rule....get more Black coaches interacting with Black coaches.

Amazingly, FORTY PERCENT or THIRTEEN NFL teams have NEVER had a Black head coach. Buffalo Bills are one of them.

Here are some more disturbing facts that illustrate that color of skin is a HUGE obstacle for NFL HC’s...


Same ol’ same ol': No progress for Black head coaches in NFL (https://apnews.com/article/indianapolis-colts-arizona-cardinals-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-sports-2e683defd534a6996b9eb02dc11910bd)




Eric Bieniemy is the glaring example of the insane lack of Black head coshes.

He is OC for the best offensive team in the NFL with TWO ****ING SUPER BOWL RINGS!!!!

That is usually cat nip for win starved owners.

Yet….he is passed over year after year.

You may want to ignore the ELEPHANT in the room….I am not. And neither are ANY of the Black players and coaches An ex-players and coaches) in the NFL. They are all painfully aware of exactly is going on.

Black people make up 14.2% of the population. In the NFL, the number of players is 57%, the number of coaches is around 20% and the number of head coaches is 12.5%. So your argument is that because the NFL doesn't have the same percentage of black head coaches as players it means they're racist? OK.

[cas22]

What?!?! It IS a (almost assuredly at least in large part) “racial thing”!!!! Have you been living in a ****ing cave????

The NFL has a PROFOUND problem with lack of Black HC’s. In a league that is majorly non-white and majority Black players.

It’s been an issue for DECADES!!!! Same with the lack of Black QB’s. It’s a systemic problem that starts in high schools and college. It is ASTOUNDING that in 56 years of the Super Bowl era, 2023 was the FIRST YEAR EVER that saw two Black QB’s starting.

Black QB’s are still an anomaly because they are shunned from that position at a young age by white coaches. This is a fact.

It became more and more difficult to exclude Black QB’s because in order to WIN, GM’s and coaches will do anything. The tales and advantage of Black QB’s became too much to deny. But, OWNERS (mostly) hire head coaches. Not GM’s.

NFL HC’s are even more disadvantaged because the overwhelming majority of owners are White (all but ONE, Shahid Khan, Jax is Pakistani American) and and have been almost ALL White since the start of the NFL. White owners tend to gravitate to people they know....which is other White guys.

It’s not like stats and film of a player where the talent is undeniable. Quality of HC's is a lot more nuanced. Owners need to feel comfortable with their HC, and that means more White guys. That’s the whole connect behind the Rooney Rule....get more Black coaches interacting with Black coaches.

Amazingly, FORTY PERCENT or THIRTEEN NFL teams have NEVER had a Black head coach. Buffalo Bills are one of them.

Here are some more disturbing facts that illustrate that color of skin is a HUGE obstacle for NFL HC’s...


Same ol’ same ol': No progress for Black head coaches in NFL (https://apnews.com/article/indianapolis-colts-arizona-cardinals-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-sports-2e683defd534a6996b9eb02dc11910bd)




Eric Bieniemy is the glaring example of the insane lack of Black head coshes.

He is OC for the best offensive team in the NFL with TWO ****ING SUPER BOWL RINGS!!!!

That is usually cat nip for win starved owners.

Yet….he is passed over year after year.

You may want to ignore the ELEPHANT in the room….I am not. And neither are ANY of the Black players and coaches An ex-players and coaches) in the NFL. They are all painfully aware of exactly is going on.

<header class="panel__header panel__header--statistic padding-bottom-0" style="-webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; border: 0px; font-size: 15px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px 40px 15px 0px; vertical-align: baseline; color: rgb(69, 95, 124); font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Open Sans fallback&quot;, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; white-space-collapse: collapse;">Players in the NFL in 2022, by ethnicityPublished by Christina Gough (https://www.statista.com/aboutus/our-research-commitment/1060/christina-gough)https://cdn.statcdn.com/CMS/contactperson/ERI1060_1591697934.png










,
Mar 27, 2023
</header>
(https://www.statista.com/statistics/1167935/racial-diversity-nfl-players/#statisticContainer) In 2022, the greatest share of players by ethnic group in the National Football League (NFL) were black or African American athletes, constituting just over 56 percent of players within the NFL. Despite the large population of Hispanic or Latino people within the United States, there is a substantial underrepresentation within the NFL, with only 0.4 percent of players identifying as such.

dude your reasoning is all bull.... Frazier was let go in a nice way, by law he is still under contract with the bills so they can't say he is interviewing ... but he wasn't visiting teams for nothing...

[swiper]

So he quit his current job because his job kept him too busy, so he could prepare for a job that would make him even more busy?
I'm sure that looks great to future employers.

Stupid is, as stupid does.

[swiper]

notacon getting schooled with facts AGAIN.

:rofl:

[jamze132]

What?!?! It IS a (almost assuredly at least in large part) “racial thing”!!!! Have you been living in a ****ing cave????

The NFL has a PROFOUND problem with lack of Black HC’s. In a league that is majorly non-white and majority Black players.

It’s been an issue for DECADES!!!! Same with the lack of Black QB’s. It’s a systemic problem that starts in high schools and college. It is ASTOUNDING that in 56 years of the Super Bowl era, 2023 was the FIRST YEAR EVER that saw two Black QB’s starting.

Black QB’s are still an anomaly because they are shunned from that position at a young age by white coaches. This is a fact.

It became more and more difficult to exclude Black QB’s because in order to WIN, GM’s and coaches will do anything. The tales and advantage of Black QB’s became too much to deny. But, OWNERS (mostly) hire head coaches. Not GM’s.

NFL HC’s are even more disadvantaged because the overwhelming majority of owners are White (all but ONE, Shahid Khan, Jax is Pakistani American) and and have been almost ALL White since the start of the NFL. White owners tend to gravitate to people they know....which is other White guys.

It’s not like stats and film of a player where the talent is undeniable. Quality of HC's is a lot more nuanced. Owners need to feel comfortable with their HC, and that means more White guys. That’s the whole connect behind the Rooney Rule....get more Black coaches interacting with Black coaches.

Amazingly, FORTY PERCENT or THIRTEEN NFL teams have NEVER had a Black head coach. Buffalo Bills are one of them.

Here are some more disturbing facts that illustrate that color of skin is a HUGE obstacle for NFL HC’s...


Same ol’ same ol': No progress for Black head coaches in NFL (https://apnews.com/article/indianapolis-colts-arizona-cardinals-pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-sports-2e683defd534a6996b9eb02dc11910bd)




Eric Bieniemy is the glaring example of the insane lack of Black head coshes.

He is OC for the best offensive team in the NFL with TWO ****ING SUPER BOWL RINGS!!!!

That is usually cat nip for win starved owners.

Yet….he is passed over year after year.

You may want to ignore the ELEPHANT in the room….I am not. And neither are ANY of the Black players and coaches An ex-players and coaches) in the NFL. They are all painfully aware of exactly is going on.

Just because EB knows how to draw up plays for one of the best QBs to play the game doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. I guess you just want to give every black guy a chance…because they’re black. Seems pretty racist to me.

[Goobylal]

Just because EB knows how to draw up plays for one of the best QBs to play the game doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. I guess you just want to give every black guy a chance…because they’re black. Seems pretty racist to me.

Besides that I've heard that he also has skeletons in his closet from his time as a player and is a terrible interviewee. Race has nothing to do with it. As for Wilkes, he went .500 after taking over in Carolina. That doesn't merit a HC'ing gig.

[notacon]

notacon getting schooled with facts AGAIN.

:rofl:

What “facts”?!?!?

[notacon]

Just because EB knows how to draw up plays for one of the best QBs to play the game doesn’t mean he’s a good leader. I guess you just want to give every black guy a chance…because they’re black. Seems pretty racist to me.

Oh please. What claptrap.

You obviously have no idea what “racism” actually means.

You can’t refute what I write, so you stoop to this crap.

I’m done here. I’ve said what I want to say, and there is no reasonable refuting what I wrote.

[jamze132]

Oh please. What claptrap.

You obviously have no idea what “racism” actually means.

You can’t refute what I write, so you stoop to this crap.

I’m done here. I’ve said what I want to say, and there is no reasonable refuting what I wrote.

I’m talking about him possibly being a bad leader and you’re saying he can’t get a gig is because he’s black. What claptrap!

[Goobylal]

The hiring of Al Holcomb was the end for Frazier. There is no need to for senior defensive assistants.

[Typ0]

How is it the liberal cannot fathom a black person can benefit from racist practice?

Now I can be easily persuaded we need to engage in some racist practice to counteract some racist practice. That makes a lot of logical sense to me and when we start engaging in the proper discussion the whole framework and execution becomes better focused and less susceptible to being derailed.

However, on it's face, giving someone preferential treatment for anything due to their being black is racism. So the whole mess of gaslighting gets started off right at the outset with the liberals so the spinning top heads of the followers can be more easily spun.

It is downright racist to stand there with a straight face and tell me Leslie Frazier doesn't deserve the same criticism any white person should have. It is an insult to myself and Leslie Frazier!

[Typ0]

The hiring of Al Holcomb was the end for Frazier. There is no need to for senior defensive assistants.

Agreed. They hired Holcomb to replace Frazier.

[Goobylal]

Ugh. Meant to say "for two..."