Allen, a Newton movie re-play?

[ghz in pittsburgh]

https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/weve_seen_josh_allens_movie_before/s1_17198_38831111
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Data from running backs suggests production begins to decline after just three seasons. But the biggest drop-off comes after their 28th birthday. The largest decline in production comes after a back has 2,500 touches.

Newton’s career stuttered after he had 3,072 involvements. He went 6-8 in his sixth season and, while he ended his seventh season 11-5, the 2017 season ended in the first round of the playoffs. Allen is now at the 3,175 mark. So, it appears the Bills window to win with him under center is closing quicker than you’d think.
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I honestly didn’t pay too much attention to Newton’ s playing style in his heydays. Seems like people acknowledge that Allen is a much better passer than him but stats say the passing numbers are very similar according to the article.

On an entirely different subject, I often wondered about Mahomes style. Those off-balance throws and scrambling etc are likely to deteriorate when he ages, even without getting hard hits like Allen gets.

[Night Train]

The aging process is part of life.

I see zero parallel with Cam Newton.

[sukie]

When Josh shows up at the podium in a silk babushka (head scarf) and bedazzled sunglasses, then the windows is no more.

[Goobylal]

LOL! Yeah, right.

[Forward_Lateral]

Another idiotic post

[Mr. Pink]

A lot of QBs who can run follow this same career arc, not just Cam Newton.

It is a legitimate concern, not an idiotic post, if we keep running Allen as much as we are.

This season and next will tell.

[Goobylal]

Josh isn't a running back.

[Forward_Lateral]

A lot of QBs who can run follow this same career arc, not just Cam Newton.

It is a legitimate concern, not an idiotic post, if we keep running Allen as much as we are.

This season and next will tell.

It’s completely idiotic. Newton wasn’t half the passer Allen is

[ghz in pittsburgh]

It is closer than you think from stats perspective. Maybe Josh tried more difficult passes
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Allen has attempted 2,566 passes (33.3 per game) and thrown for 18,397 yards (238.9 per game) during his fledgling career. Newton attempted 2,418 passes (31.0 per game) and recorded 18,263 yards (234.1 yards per game) over the same period. Allen is a slightly more accurate passer, with a completion rate of 62.5% compared to Newton’s 59.6%. Allen has thrown fewer interceptions, too, with 64 compared to Newton’s 71.
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[ghz in pittsburgh]

Just throws Mahomes numbers in there - he played one game first season so the numbers are comparable: 24000 yards averaging 37 attempts a game. 66% completion rate and 48 ints

[OpIv37]

I don’t know or care how Josh compares with Cam.

I am, however, concerned that we missed our window. 13 seconds was our year. Maybe last year was our year if the team wasn’t emotionally drained from the Hamlin situation. But other team in the conf are improving and we are stagnant.

[notacon]

I don’t know or care how Josh compares with Cam.

I am, however, concerned that we missed our window. 13 seconds was our year. Maybe last year was our year if the team wasn’t emotionally drained from the Hamlin situation. But other team in the conf are improving and we are stagnant.

The Bills “missing their window” is SO absurd. Loser talk.

Same with "other team in the conf are improving and we are stagnant” No. The Bills are NOT “stagnant”. How silly.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

The kind of hits that shortens your QB’s career
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">this is how you cut your 26 year old superstar QB&#39;s career in half, this OL should be tried for war crimes for the **** Josh had to endure last season, holy ****ing **** <a href="https://t.co/FR7vE9oswW">pic.twitter.com/FR7vE9oswW</a></p>&mdash; Sachiko🏳️*🌈🥷🏾 (@PrimeWembxnyama) <a href="https://twitter.com/PrimeWembxnyama/status/1659366371497504768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 19, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[OpIv37]

The Bills “missing their window” is SO absurd. Loser talk.

Same with "other team in the conf are improving and we are stagnant” No. The Bills are NOT “stagnant”. How silly.
How did we get better than last year? and don’t say the draft because every team gets to draft. Clearly, the Jets and Fins got better in trade/FA. We didn’t.

Reality isn’t “loser talk.” It just is what it is.

[Mr. Pink]

Same with "other team in the conf are improving and we are stagnant” No. The Bills are NOT “stagnant”. How silly.

At best we remained stagnant. However, we lost an all world linebacker who was the leader of our defense and didn't replace him. That alone should say not only did we not remain status quo, we got worse.

All the while the teams like the Jets and Dolphins got better.

[OpIv37]

At best we remained stagnant. However, we lost an all world linebacker who was the leader of our defense and didn't replace him. That alone should say not only did we not remain status quo, we got worse.

All the while the teams like the Jets and Dolphins got better.

Great point, Pink.

nota, you spent Edmunds’ entire contract year defending him right up until the moment he signed elsewhere. You are the one who thought he was a good player.

Who did we replace him with that’s equal or better? How can you say we didn’t get worse when a player that YOU defended left, and wasn’t replaced?

You talk about my biases all the time- maybe you’re right, maybe you’re wrong, but that’s not the point. Your own biases are glaring here.

[Forward_Lateral]

Why don’t you show Ben Rothlesberger? He took massive hits, many more than Josh, and his career lasted 18 seasons. Josh is huge for a qb. Just like Ben was. Are some of the hits unnecessary? Of course. He’s not even close to being in the same career trajectory as Newton, however, so stop being ridiculous

[YardRat]

Why don’t you show Ben Rothlesberger? He took massive hits, many more than Josh, and his career lasted 18 seasons. Josh is huge for a qb. Just like Ben was. Are some of the hits unnecessary? Of course. He’s not even close to being in the same career trajectory as Newton, however, so stop being ridiculous

Newton = 6'5", 245.
Josh = 6'5", 238.
Ben = 6'5", 240.

Josh has 546 rushing attempts, Roethlisberger 188 his first five years. Newton 599.
Josh sacked 151, Ben 192, Newton 185.

[Forward_Lateral]

Newton = 6'5", 245.
Josh = 6'5", 238.
Ben = 6'5", 240.

Josh has 546 rushing attempts, Roethlisberger 188 his first five years. Newton 599.
Josh sacked 151, Ben 192, Newton 185.

What’s your point here? The only way to get hits that hurt is by running? I’m lost at the point

[DraftBoy]

What’s your point here? The only way to get hits that hurt is by running? I’m lost at the point

Just guessing but I would think it’s the fact that Allen, like Newton, has been exposed to near 700 hits compared to the less than 400 of Big Ben. That’s not accounting for times when the QB slid or went out of bounds with no hit while rushing the ball.

[Mr. Pink]

Newton = 6'5", 245.
Josh = 6'5", 238.
Ben = 6'5", 240.

Josh has 546 rushing attempts, Roethlisberger 188 his first five years. Newton 599.
Josh sacked 151, Ben 192, Newton 185.

Let's throw in another QB who liked to run.

Culpepper 6'4" 260 sacked 188 times 427 rushing attempts. First 5 years of his career.

Donovan McNabb also has a similar trajectory of declining although not as bad as Culpepper or Newton after their first 80 games. As well as getting hurt.

It's a trend among QBs who take hits, either by sacks or taking off and running. It should be a concern for all of us with Josh going forward. And we should all hope that there are less designed runs for Josh and that when he does run he learns to slide or get out of bounds, not hurdle over people.

[YardRat]

What’s your point here? The only way to get hits that hurt is by running? I’m lost at the point

You said 'show Ben Roethilisberger', so I did.

[ghz in pittsburgh]

I don’t know Big Ben is ever known for his running as a threat. In his youth days, he liked to scramble. That’s about it. Allen surprised all of us in his rookie year that his running is a weapon. Remember it’s not just hits when you run. The kind of stress put on you whole body, the sudden stop and go and shifting that put on your knees and ankles etc., all of which the likes of Brady and Burrows don’t have to worry about

[Goobylal]

How did we get better than last year? and don’t say the draft because every team gets to draft. Clearly, the Jets and Fins got better in trade/FA. We didn’t.

Reality isn’t “loser talk.” It just is what it is.


At best we remained stagnant. However, we lost an all world linebacker who was the leader of our defense and didn't replace him. That alone should say not only did we not remain status quo, we got worse.

All the while the teams like the Jets and Dolphins got better.

Please. They addressed the interior OL, receivers, RBs, DL depth, DB depth and Dorsey won't be a rookie OC and McD will be running the defense. Not to mention Josh will be healthy again and so will Brown.

[OpIv37]

Please. They addressed the interior OL, receivers, RBs, DL depth, DB depth and Dorsey won't be a rookie OC and McD will be running the defense. Not to mention Josh will be healthy again and so will Brown.

Lmao. Another year of experience makes Dorsey better, but somehow doesn’t make our opponents better.

[Woodman]

The aging process is part of life.

I see zero parallel with Cam Newton.

None whatsoever.

[Crisis]

It's funny because as much gets said about Cam being run in the ground, the lasting damage to his shoulder came as a result of trying to make a tackle on an INT. You can get hurt anywhere on the football field, but most running QBs actually end up getting hurt in the pocket. Look at where Lamar's injury and even Josh's have come from.

[Forward_Lateral]

It's funny because as much gets said about Cam being run in the ground, the lasting damage to his shoulder came as a result of trying to make a tackle on an INT. You can get hurt anywhere on the football field, but most running QBs actually end up getting hurt in the pocket. Look at where Lamar's injury and even Josh's have come from.

That doesn’t fit the narrative though

[Mr. Pink]

That doesn’t fit the narrative though

Culpepper got hurt on an 18 yard run being tackled low by Chris Gamble, this hit tore his ACL, PCL, and MCL.

I know we all like to rag on Culpepper around here and remember how terrible he was with the fish but he was very good for the Vikings.

The more these guys subject themselves to contact the more their body wears down and is more susceptible to injury. The more a QB runs and doesn't slide or get out of bounds, the more contact they take during the course of a game/season/career.

Or look at Kyler Murray while running the ball tore his ACL on a non-contact injury.

[Goobylal]

Lmao. Another year of experience makes Dorsey better, but somehow doesn’t make our opponents better.

Like who? Who among our opponents was a first-time coordinator?

[OpIv37]

Like who? Who among our opponents was a first-time coordinator?

This is drought era thinking. “We don’t need to add talent. They get better from year one to year two!” Maybe, but not at a level high enough to actually improve the results. It was proven countless times over a 17 year period.

[Goobylal]

This is drought era thinking. “We don’t need to add talent. They get better from year one to year two!” Maybe, but not at a level high enough to actually improve the results. It was proven countless times over a 17 year period.

The Bills didn't add talent? Are you serious?

[Saratoga Slim]

This is a classic late May thread.

[GreedoII]

Creeping doubts settling in........

[Forward_Lateral]

Culpepper got hurt on an 18 yard run being tackled low by Chris Gamble, this hit tore his ACL, PCL, and MCL.

I know we all like to rag on Culpepper around here and remember how terrible he was with the fish but he was very good for the Vikings.

The more these guys subject themselves to contact the more their body wears down and is more susceptible to injury. The more a QB runs and doesn't slide or get out of bounds, the more contact they take during the course of a game/season/career.

Or look at Kyler Murray while running the ball tore his ACL on a non-contact injury.

The point is, injuries happen inside and outside of the pocket. You can't tell Josh not to run, it's part of his game and it's part of what makes him so dangerous.

Also, comparing Allen to Newton is absolute garbage.

Newton passed for over 4000 yards ONCE in his career. Allen has done it 3 out of 5 years in the league. Newton passed for over 30 TDs, you guessed it, ONCE in his entire career. Allen has done it 3 times in 5 years. It's an absurd comparison. You might as well compare him to Mike Vick, it makes just as much sense.

[Mr. Pink]

The point is, injuries happen inside and outside of the pocket. You can't tell Josh not to run, it's part of his game and it's part of what makes him so dangerous.

Also, comparing Allen to Newton is absolute garbage.

Newton passed for over 4000 yards ONCE in his career. Allen has done it 3 out of 5 years in the league. Newton passed for over 30 TDs, you guessed it, ONCE in his entire career. Allen has done it 3 times in 5 years. It's an absurd comparison. You might as well compare him to Mike Vick, it makes just as much sense.

There is also a huge difference in the game today than there was even 10 years ago.

You really cannot go oh Newton doesn't compare just based on stats. They have similar skillsets.

And no, I wouldn't compare Allen to Vick, Vick is probably the most athletic QB the NFL has ever seen.

[FanBack]

The referees let Can Newton take illegal hits in the pocket. That's how he got hurt. I watched a game in 2014 and pretended I was a Panthers fan. It was shocking. Slaps upside the head, late hits long after ball release, low hits. Ed Hochuli must have been the ref. 😀

[OpIv37]

The Bills didn't add talent? Are you serious?

What talent did we add? And once again, don’t say “the draft” because every other team added talent in the draft too.

[sukie]

What talent did we add? And once again, don’t say “the draft” because every other team added talent in the draft too.
Everyone added that wasn’t drafted?

[Jeff1220]

The kind of hits that shortens your QB’s career
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">this is how you cut your 26 year old superstar QB's career in half, this OL should be tried for war crimes for the **** Josh had to endure last season, holy ****ing **** <a href="https://t.co/FR7vE9oswW">pic.twitter.com/FR7vE9oswW</a></p>— Sachiko🏳️*🌈🥷🏾 (@PrimeWembxnyama) <a href="https://twitter.com/PrimeWembxnyama/status/1659366371497504768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 19, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Freaking Saffold! :mad:

[notacon]

There is also a huge difference in the game today than there was even 10 years ago.

You really cannot go oh Newton doesn't compare just based on stats. They have similar skillsets.

And no, I wouldn't compare Allen to Vick, Vick is probably the most athletic QB the NFL has ever seen.

Funny...that was the point I made (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263195-Bills-no-pressure-like-last-year?p=5025354&viewfull=1#post5025354) when you tried the lame premise about Gruden coaching TB to a SB TWENTY YEARS AGO to put forward an even lamer premise that “...sometimes you need to still make a (coaching) change to get to that next step."