View Full Version : D Hop released
JoeMama
05-26-2023, 12:14 PM
With that nasty contract out of the way, let's make this happen.
Night Train
05-26-2023, 12:19 PM
Might still want a nasty contract. We'll see.
ghz in pittsburgh
05-26-2023, 12:29 PM
According to Hopkins interview, he said he would like to play with Allen, Hurts, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert. Of those, which team does not have an established #1 receiver? Chiefs and Ravens.
Buffalogic
05-26-2023, 12:29 PM
Come to buffalo
JoeMama
05-26-2023, 12:32 PM
According to Hopkins interview, he said he would like to play with Allen, Hurts, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert. Of those, which team does not have an established #1 receiver? Chiefs and Ravens.
I could be wrong but I believe the Ravens have more cap space than the Chiefs.
Lexwhat
05-26-2023, 12:53 PM
I felt that this was going to happen, but expected it to be a Post-June 1 cut. Cardinals just ate up a huge cap hit for this year, but seemingly had no choice.
If Beane can fit the contract in the books, IMO Hopkins is a MUST sign. We aren't any closer to the Super Bowl than we were last year, and IMO the Chiefs and Bengals are still a notch above Buffalo at this point. We have a WR1 in Diggs, and a bunch of WR3s who don't strike much fear into our opponents.
I don't care that Mahomes doesn't have a WR1. He's proven (so far) to be a better QB than Allen, he has a better offensive line, and a much better offensive mind in Andy Reid. Mahomes also has a hall of fame TE in Travis Kelce, who will go down in history as the one of the top 5 TEs to ever play.
Meanwhile, Joe Burrow has two WRs that would be "WR1s" on most other teams.
DHopkins coming to Buffalo would change the dynamic of this offense and put us in serious Super Bowl contention. Beane will have to mortgage the future a bit to do it, but it is worth it.
ghz in pittsburgh
05-26-2023, 12:56 PM
Hopkins is 30, and in recent years, is injury prone. The other factor is whether a team has already paid their #1 receiver, because it is not realistic to have a $45 million QB and 2 $25 million receivers on the same team for any lengthy period of time.
When the Bills signed Deonte Harty, McKenzie said himself he was livid right away. Imagine now with Diggs. The only way I see it happen for the Bills is that everyone, including Hopkins, realizes that he's no longer the lead dog in the WR room and he is willing to take a back seat on a prove-it deal.
sukie
05-26-2023, 12:59 PM
According to Hopkins interview, he said he would like to play with Allen, Hurts, Mahomes, Jackson, Herbert. Of those, which team does not have an established #1 receiver? Chiefs and Ravens.
Ravens signed OBJ.
Lexwhat
05-26-2023, 01:00 PM
Letting Hopkins sign with KC (or Baltimore) would be a huge mistake. Mahomes with Hopkins and Kelce? Might as well run the tape on the 2007 Patriots.
Obviously, I am not saying we should sign Hopkins for $20 million plus a year, but I think he can be had for much less than that. Hopkins has made many comments about his admiration for Josh Allen, and the Von Miller effect is highly apparent.
Lexwhat
05-26-2023, 01:11 PM
Hopkins is 30, and in recent years, is injury prone. The other factor is whether a team has already paid their #1 receiver, because it is not realistic to have a $45 million QB and 2 $25 million receivers on the same team for any lengthy period of time.
When the Bills signed Deonte Harty, McKenzie said himself he was livid right away. Imagine now with Diggs. The only way I see it happen for the Bills is that everyone, including Hopkins, realizes that he's no longer the lead dog in the WR room and he is willing to take a back seat on a prove-it deal.
I will actually say it would be the opposite situation with Diggs. I think he would be thrilled...
Diggs is upset about losing year after year. Teams can laser focus on Diggs and take him out of the game (e.g Bengals), and last year we weren't able to overcome that.
The last time we had real WR2 production was the Bills-KC playoff game, when Gabe Davis went off for 4 TDs. That's what this offense could look like with DHop and Diggs as WR1a and WR1b. Diggs has always loved his fellow WRs, and even campaigned for Cole Beasley to come back a few weeks ago. He wants to win.
Signing DHopkins would make life easier for Diggs, if you ask me.
It depends on how he prioritizes the big 3:
1. Money - not sure, but I think Ravens have the advantage there
2. Touches - Although he would instantly be the undisputed #1 on BAL, he’d be playing with the weakest of the 3 QBs. He would also probably be the #1 wideout on KC, but likely second in receiving targets to Kelce. On Buffalo, his floor would be the #2.
3. Winning - KC all the way. Chiefs went 17-3 last year with the Burger King B shift at WR. Mahomes is the game’s best winner, Reid is the best and most creative offensive mind, etc.
Buffalo can only best the competition (as they currently stand) in “maybe” touches, but Diggs would have to be all-in on the recruiting pitch and I’m having a hard time seeing that. Hope I’m wrong
I will actually say it would be the opposite situation with Diggs. I think he would be thrilled...
Diggs is upset about losing year after year. Teams can laser focus on Diggs and take him out of the game (e.g Bengals), and last year we weren't able to overcome that.
The last time we had real WR2 production was the Bills-KC playoff game, when Gabe Davis went off for 4 TDs. That's what this offense could look like with DHop and Diggs as WR1a and WR1b. Diggs has always loved his fellow WRs, and even campaigned for Cole Beasley to come back a few weeks ago. He wants to win.
Signing DHopkins would make life easier for Diggs, if you ask me.
I hope you are right, that would show he shares the same frustrations and is all about the Ws. I can live with that kind of passion if his heart is in the right place
How much money is Arizona on the hook for? What's he already getting paid?
sukie
05-26-2023, 01:26 PM
Diggs and Hopkins are friends.
Lexwhat
05-26-2023, 01:28 PM
It depends on how he prioritizes the big 3:
1. Money - not sure, but I think Ravens have the advantage there
2. Touches - Although he would instantly be the undisputed #1 on BAL, he’d be playing with the weakest of the 3 QBs. He would also probably be the #1 wideout on KC, but likely second in receiving targets to Kelce. On Buffalo, his floor would be the #2.
3. Winning - KC all the way. Chiefs went 17-3 last year with the Burger King B shift at WR. Mahomes is the game’s best winner, Reid is the best and most creative offensive mind, etc.
Buffalo can only best the competition (as they currently stand) in “maybe” touches, but Diggs would have to be all-in on the recruiting pitch and I’m having a hard time seeing that. Hope I’m wrong
I can't argue about the money, but the Chiefs and Bills are similar in that regard. In the end, it just comes down to how Beane or Veach want to structure the contracts in the short and long term. But yes, Baltimore is in the best shape there.
Agree that KC offers a better chance of a Super Bowl ring than Buffalo. In fact, I would even say the Eagles (who would also be in the mix) probably offer him a better chance than Buffalo for a Ring.
I also feel that a trade might have happened on Draft day if Kincaid wasn't available. Beane made the right move there, but now he has the opportunity to snag both.
The one factor we can't overlook is Von Miller... I am convinced that the combination of Josh Allen and Von Miller is enough to make Hopkins sign. If I was betting, I would say the Bills have the best chance to sign DHop, and would go out on a limb to say it will happen.
Call me crazy... but if I was Josh Allen, I would consider taking a small pay reduction to help bring in Hopkins. It would be a very Tom Brady thing to do.
Novacane
05-26-2023, 01:35 PM
22 mil cap hit for the Cards. They're shooting for the #1 pick.
I can't argue about the money, but the Chiefs and Bills are similar in that regard. In the end, it just comes down to how Beane or Veach want to structure the contracts in the short and long term. But yes, Baltimore is in the best shape there.
Agree that KC offers a better chance of a Super Bowl ring than Buffalo. In fact, I would even say the Eagles (who would also be in the mix) probably offer him a better chance than Buffalo for a Ring.
I also feel that a trade might have happened on Draft day if Kincaid wasn't available. Beane made the right move there, but now he has the opportunity to snag both.
The one factor we can't overlook is Von Miller... I am convinced that the combination of Josh Allen and Von Miller is enough to make Hopkins sign. If I was betting, I would say the Bills have the best chance to sign DHop, and would go out on a limb to say it will happen.
Call me crazy... but if I was Josh Allen, I would consider taking a small pay reduction to help bring in Hopkins. It would be a very Tom Brady thing to do.
I still think Diggs has to be in the recruiting triumvirate for the pitch to be successful, and if sukie is right above then hopefully that’s not an issue.
You ain’t lying about Philly either. There is **** all in the NFC right now so that’s a 6-lane highway to the NFCCG at worst
ghz in pittsburgh
05-26-2023, 01:52 PM
Eagles gave AJ Brown a $100 million 4 year extension, similar to Bills to Diggs. Style wise, AJ Brown is very similar to Hopkins whereas Diggs' game is very different from Hopkins.
Forward_Lateral
05-26-2023, 01:59 PM
Wow. Why would Arizona take such a hit??
Arizona is not the smartest franchise. They just gave a petulant child with **** work ethic the keys to the city
ghz in pittsburgh
05-26-2023, 02:08 PM
So money is still the big thing? I like the comment that no team believe he is what he was
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Buffalo has had interest. The Patriots have had interest. Best I can tell, no one believes he is what he once was, and that will be part of the challenge in acquiring the player. A couple of teams I spoke with before the draft believe $$$ will be the driver in this, more so than… <a href="https://t.co/AQUeRoQbPJ">https://t.co/AQUeRoQbPJ</a></p>— Mike Giardi (@MikeGiardi) <a href="https://twitter.com/MikeGiardi/status/1662148156094660619?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 26, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
ghz in pittsburgh
05-26-2023, 02:30 PM
If he wants money? Baltimore can give the most. If he wants to go to superbowl? KC/Phily are the best bets. If he wants stats so he can cash in next year? Buffalo passes the ball all the time. If he wants sunny weather? San Diego.
Woodman
05-26-2023, 02:35 PM
19791
Night Train
05-26-2023, 02:55 PM
He soon to be 31 and had a 6 game PED suspension last year, correct ? Wow, that's elevating his brand with me.
So get rid of Harty, Sherfield, Davis , PS Shorter or get rid of him too. Shakir sits again.
I thought they were going 12 personnel with the recent top draft pick, meaning only 2 standard outside WR's on the field. ?
Didn't they already redo a lot of deals ? How much more cap issues can they kick down the road ? He's not signing for peanuts.
Legit questions without blinders.
Woodman
05-26-2023, 02:58 PM
Nothing to worry about at all.
:gobills:
sukie
05-26-2023, 03:13 PM
Wow. Why would Arizona take such a hit??
I can’t figure that one out either.
mightysimi
05-26-2023, 03:59 PM
I can’t figure that one out either.
Lost year anyways with their QB on the shelf for part of it. Pair that with one of the worst rosters in the league and you get a tanking team. Might as well take the cap hit when you will be crappy anyways so you can spend when you aren't. Plus they are set for a top 3 pick on their own and get one from the Texans. Might as well go all in on the rebuild.
Woodman
05-26-2023, 04:09 PM
Lost year anyways with their QB on the shelf for part of it. Pair that with one of the worst rosters in the league and you get a tanking team. Might as well take the cap hit when you will be crappy anyways so you can spend when you aren't. Plus they are set for a top 3 pick on their own and get one from the Texans. Might as well go all in on the rebuild.
Clear the decks!!!!
22 mil cap hit for the Cards. They're shooting for the #1 pick.
Would it had been the same if they kept him? Does he get paid 22 million this year by the Cards?
Night Train
05-26-2023, 04:48 PM
Bills have 3.1 Mil in cap space.
KC has just over 1 Mil in space.
sukie
05-26-2023, 04:51 PM
Would it had been the same if they kept him? Does he get paid 22 million this year by the Cards?
Yes. He’s being paid I believe. The confounding thing is they could have gotten a draft pick or 2 AND lose the salary with the Ravens pre draft… the rumor mill had it down to compensation.
Woodman
05-26-2023, 05:18 PM
Who's in charge of the henhouse over there? :rofl:
Yes. He’s being paid I believe. The confounding thing is they could have gotten a draft pick or 2 AND lose the salary with the Ravens pre draft… the rumor mill had it down to compensation.
So if we offered him 8 he'd be making 30 mil this year. Maybe he'd bite. But someone else would top that probably.
sukie
05-26-2023, 06:32 PM
So if we offered him 8 he'd be making 30 mil this year. Maybe he'd bite. But someone else would top that probably.
If it’s truly money, don’t want him
Woodman
05-26-2023, 06:39 PM
If it's truly just about the money I can't think of anybody that would want him.
I think he's a steal at 8 million. And especially at his age, it's about money.
YardRat
05-26-2023, 07:13 PM
Let's at least see if he wants to win or cash in. Now that the cap implications are gone I'm willing to at least talk.
Frenchman
05-26-2023, 08:42 PM
Wonder where he will go now? As he wants to play for a winning team from what he said.
ghz in pittsburgh
05-26-2023, 09:02 PM
Most rational speculation at this point is Chiefs and Bills. But I am willing to bet there is at least one team that will take a serious run at him (with serious money, in the mode of "you will make us reach the superbowl level" convincing).
Chiefs have some things about money on their hand - Rumours Mahomes wants to redo his deal (way off best paid QB list for the best player), Jones deal is pending (looking at Aaron Donald's level of money).
The upshot is that IF the Bills land Hopkins, healthy or not, we are looking at offensive weapons that can go toe-to-toe with Bengals. No excuse for McDermott, Dorsey, Allen.
jamze132
05-27-2023, 05:16 AM
He’ll sign with the Jets.
swiper
05-27-2023, 05:34 AM
Wow. Why would Arizona take such a hit??
Because they are tanking for a high draft pick.
Decision to take full DeAndre Hopkins cap hit in 2023 proves one thing: The Cardinals are tanking (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/26/decision-to-take-full-deandre-hopkins-cap-hit-in-2023-proves-one-thing-the-cardinals-are-tanking/)
Woodman
05-27-2023, 09:22 AM
Bills quarterback Josh Allen could use some help. And receiver DeAndre Hopkins (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/8074/deandre-hopkins) could be the player to provide plenty of it.
DraftKings has installed the Bills as +300 favorites (https://twitter.com/DKSportsbook/status/1662250099626455048?s=20) to be the team with which Hopkins takes his next snap, followed by the Chiefs at +400, the Ravens at +650, and the Jets at +750.
DraftKings has Bills as the favorites to land DeAndre Hopkins - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/27/draftkings-has-bills-as-the-favorites-to-land-deandre-hopkins/)
Woodman
05-27-2023, 09:24 AM
This becomes one of the few opportunities that emerge every year for a team to roll the dice on a difference-maker, especially if that team will have to compete with the player if/when he signs with another team. It would seem to be exactly the kind of move for the Bills to make, if they truly want to box out the Chiefs and Bengals and get back to the Super Bowl for the first time in 30 years.
Hopkins, Stefon Diggs (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/9728/stefon-diggs), Dawson Knox (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/50082/dawson-knox), and rookie Dalton Kincaid (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/70481/dalton-kincaid) would give Buffalo an impressive array of pass catchers — and it would keep Kansas City and Patrick Mahomes (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/8824/patrick-mahomes) from landing the kind of complement to Travis Kelce (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/8828/travis-kelce) and Kadarius Toney (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/63742/kadarius-toney) that would position the Chiefs for yet another Super Bowl run.
Woodman
05-27-2023, 09:37 AM
Per multiple sources, the notorious Saint Omni is “running the show” for Hopkins. At least one viable contender for Hopkins’s services is leery about dealing with Omni. And for good reason. Last year, the NFL specifically warned all teams not to deal with Omni or any other non-certified agent in connection with linebacker Roquan Smith (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/1420/roquan-smith).
Although Omni has managed to work in the shadows, or more conspicuously, on behalf of players like Smith and Texans tackle Laremy Tunsil (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/9490/laremy-tunsil), if a team that otherwise would be aggressively pursuing Hopkins opts to back away because it’s not comfortable dealing with Omni, that necessarily limits the player’s potential options.
DeAndre Hopkins's financial expectations, representation could be an impediment to a deal - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/27/deandre-hopkinss-financial-expectations-representation-could-be-an-impediment-to-a-deal/)
notacon
05-27-2023, 11:33 AM
Wow. Why would Arizona take such a hit??
Because they are in 100% rebuild mode. There is no reason to keep him on the team, and get the cap hit out of the way ASAP. With two first round picks in 2024, their own and Houston, they could easily both be in the top 5.
Would anyone be surprised if they cut Murray loose after 2024 season? Draft the #1 QB in a 2024 class that is widely seen as much better than 2023??
Murray’s last year of guaranteed salary is 2024....$35M. They cut him loose (or trade him to some stupid team) and the cap savings for 2025 is a hopping $33M.
Overthecap provides nominal cap pace projections for next five years based on current contracts. Even with Murray’s huge cap hit, they are projected to be under the cap in 2024 by $51M....in 2025 under the cap by $161M.
This ditching of Holpkns now (on the wrong side of 30) is a no-brainer. The QB position will probably not be settled for some time.
DraftBoy
05-27-2023, 11:55 AM
Bringing in Hopkins makes sense in terms of adding a real #2 to the team and relegating Davis to a more limited 3/4 role which is where he should be. Adding Hopkins after drafting Kincaid doesn’t make a ton of sense to me given you have to feed Hopkins the ball to keep him happy and get him going.
I get the can’t have enough weapons argument, but the only question on offense that matters is Allen getting back to where he needs to be.
notacon
05-27-2023, 12:06 PM
I don’t think that KC is going to bid for him. They don’t need him. The mistake that too many assumed when they traded Tyreek Hill was that the offense would take a big hit.
How did that work out??
KC’s offense runs through Mahomes and KELCE. He has been their most prolific receiver every year he’s been on the team (his first year (2013) he was inured and hardly played).
Every year since then he has been with the #1 or #2 receiver in catches or yards....several of those years both.
Can the Bills use Hopkins? Absolutely. WR is one of the weakest positions on the team, which is why that position was almost completely overhauled this off season with a 50% turnover. The most of any position by far.
Kincaid could be an amazing addition. So could Harty and Sherfield, but despite Davis being better than some off the opinions here, there is no question that he has not secured the #2 WR spot as hoped.
I, (and a lot of other posters) objected to a trade for Hopkins. The main obstacles were giving up anything for him...even late round draft picks, and especially being saddled with his contract.
Now, those impediments are taken away. It’s time for the Bills to get serious.
I have held the maxim, and proved it with the facts (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263081-Name-one-starter-on-our-team-that-if-we-lost?p=5020920&viewfull=1#post5020920), that teams do not, in almost ANY circumstances, have two players in the same position that are within the top 10 ranked by AVG/Y.
The Bills already have the #7 highest paid WR. #10 highest paid WR in AVG/Y (after Hopkins was released, before that he was the #3 at $27.2M AVG/Y) is Keenan Allen at $20.025M.
$20M seems like too much to pay a 31 year old WR who has only played 19 of the past 32 games.
Signing a contact right around what OBJ just got, $15M, structured to allow the Bills to stay within the cap without too much kicking the can down the road with restructured of others aging vets, would seem what Beane is aiming for, or should be aiming for.
If it gets into some kind of pissing match on money....forget it. We don't need him that badly.
sukie
05-27-2023, 01:28 PM
Interesting to see what the Fins do when Waddle cashes in. Two top 5 WRs under contract… sounds like a cap issue.
I don't want to see them pay 15 mil for a guy who has played 19 of 32 games the past two years. Tbe result is predictable. They have weapons. Use them appropriately. It's a desperation move...not a move for sustained success.
DraftBoy
05-27-2023, 04:33 PM
I don't want to see them pay 15 mil for a guy who has played 19 of 32 games the past two years. Tbe result is predictable. They have weapons. Use them appropriately. It's a desperation move...not a move for sustained success.
Window is closing, nobody cares about sustained success if you never actually win anything. I’m fine with a desperation move at this point.
Woodman
05-27-2023, 06:00 PM
The question: Should the Bills pursue Hopkins?
If the Bills are interested in Hopkins, the first thing to understand is that they aren’t getting the same player who made five Pro Bowls in six seasons.
Hopkins will turn 31 years old on June 6 and he played 35 of 50 games in three seasons with the Cardinals. He tore his MCL 10 games into the 2021 season and was suspended the first six games of last season due to a violation of the NFL’s policy on performance enhancing drugs.
Meanwhile, five receivers 30 or older ranked in the NFL’s top-50 in receptions or yards receiving last season. Hopkins ranked 49th in receiving yards.
The other barrier for Buffalo will be money. Although no team will have to take on the $19.45 million he was owed to Arizona — which was a sticking point for teams trading for him leading up to the draft — he still may command a decent sum as a free agent.
Sabato- DeAndre Hopkins is worth pursuing, but Bills can't bend on price | Sports | niagara-gazette.com (https://www.niagara-gazette.com/sports/sabato-deandre-hopkins-is-worth-pursuing-but-bills-cant-bend-on-price/article_3b038c02-fc0b-11ed-9acf-ebd522448ee1.html)
Woodman
05-27-2023, 06:02 PM
According to the NFLPA (https://nflpa.com/reports/public-salary-cap-report), Buffalo currently has $3,163,801 million in cap space, which means he would have to take a team-friendly deal like the majority of the free agents signed this offseason, or more likely, general manager Brandon Beane will have to restructure contracts or make some roster moves to create enough space.
The good news for Bills fans is that other teams rumored to be interested, like the Chiefs, are always strapped for cash. Kansas City has $1.6 million in cap space and couldn’t afford to re-sign JuJu Smith-Schuster in free agency.
The Jets were players for Beckham and have $6.7 million in cap, with more flexibility than the Bills in restructuring contracts. The Cowboys are also in need of a receiver and Jerry Jones is still always looking to make a splash.
The answer: Yes, but cautiously.
The money will be the caveat. If Hopkins is seeking the $15 million base salary Odell Beckham Jr. signed with the Ravens, the Bills likely wouldn’t be able to make a deal or they would be foolish to try.
f8ta1ity54
05-27-2023, 07:51 PM
Because they are tanking for a high draft pick.
Decision to take full DeAndre Hopkins cap hit in 2023 proves one thing: The Cardinals are tanking (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/26/decision-to-take-full-deandre-hopkins-cap-hit-in-2023-proves-one-thing-the-cardinals-are-tanking/)
I would too at this point. Williams and Maye are the best QBs to come out since Lawrence IMO. I dont know why any team would have drafted a QB in this class. I would have been trying to hoard picks.
f8ta1ity54
05-27-2023, 07:55 PM
The bills would be foolish to not do what it takes to get Hopkins now that that he is a FA. This team needs a championship and Hopkins gives you 2 stud WRs and injury insurance. Bills could rotate Hopkins and Diggs in the slot keeping gabe as the #3 on the boundary.
OpIv37
05-27-2023, 08:29 PM
The bills would be foolish to not do what it takes to get Hopkins now that that he is a FA. This team needs a championship and Hopkins gives you 2 stud WRs and injury insurance. Bills could rotate Hopkins and Diggs in the slot keeping gabe as the #3 on the boundary.
The window is closing. I don’t blame the Bills for not trading for him when he had a $19 mil cap hit but that’s off the books now. It’s time to go all in. If the window hasn’t passed, we’ve got one or two more chances. He doesn’t need the money. We want a title, he wants a title. The best option is doing it together
yordad
05-28-2023, 01:18 AM
Is he or is he not ghetto AF? Real question
swiper
05-28-2023, 06:04 AM
Window is closing, nobody cares about sustained success if you never actually win anything. I’m fine with a desperation move at this point.
LOL. So says the self-proclaimed experts. There is no windows closing. The only window is Allen's age, he's young. All the other pieces are replaceable.
Furthermore, you sign a Hopkins and it pushes Gabe Davis down, Shakir down, the new TE down in their looks. All players that should be getting more looks, not less. 2021 Davis is a fine #2 WR.
ghz in pittsburgh
05-28-2023, 08:16 AM
I don’t think that KC is going to bid for him. They don’t need him. The mistake that too many assumed when they traded Tyreek Hill was that the offense would take a big hit.
How did that work out??
KC’s offense runs through Mahomes and KELCE. He has been their most prolific receiver every year he’s been on the team (his first year (2013) he was inured and hardly played).
Every year since then he has been with the #1 or #2 receiver in catches or yards....several of those years both.
Can the Bills use Hopkins? Absolutely. WR is one of the weakest positions on the team, which is why that position was almost completely overhauled this off season with a 50% turnover. The most of any position by far.
Kincaid could be an amazing addition. So could Harty and Sherfield, but despite Davis being better than some off the opinions here, there is no question that he has not secured the #2 WR spot as hoped.
I, (and a lot of other posters) objected to a trade for Hopkins. The main obstacles were giving up anything for him...even late round draft picks, and especially being saddled with his contract.
Now, those impediments are taken away. It’s time for the Bills to get serious.
I have held the maxim, and proved it with the facts (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263081-Name-one-starter-on-our-team-that-if-we-lost?p=5020920&viewfull=1#post5020920), that teams do not, in almost ANY circumstances, have two players in the same position that are within the top 10 ranked by AVG/Y.
The Bills already have the #7 highest paid WR. #10 highest paid WR in AVG/Y (after Hopkins was released, before that he was the #3 at $27.2M AVG/Y) is Keenan Allen at $20.025M.
$20M seems like too much to pay a 31 year old WR who has only played 19 of the past 32 games.
Signing a contact right around what OBJ just got, $15M, structured to allow the Bills to stay within the cap without too much kicking the can down the road with restructured of others aging vets, would seem what Beane is aiming for, or should be aiming for.
If it gets into some kind of pissing match on money....forget it. We don't need him that badly.
KC were definitely interested. They went further than the Bills did pre-draft. Reportedly the Bills and Chiefs are the only teams that got to talk to Hopkins in person before getting serious compensation discussion with the Cardinals and then contract parameters with Hopkins.
Obviously a lot has changed post draft. Personally I think Hopkins himself may have forced the issue. Think about it. The Cardinals, by their final decision, indicate that they would accept any compensation and be better than it is now. But why it didn't happen? Hopkins contract! If he is sticking to the Cards by saying no negotiation to even allow the Cards to pay part of his salary for prospective trade partner (which means Cards could get a better pick potentially), or tell any potential trade partner he's not going to renegotiate a new contract, the thing is dead. Why? He gets to choose where he goes and likely a bidding war for him to get a financial deal that betters what he has now from an overall perspective.
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DraftBoy
05-28-2023, 08:34 AM
LOL. So says the self-proclaimed experts. There is no windows closing. The only window is Allen's age, he's young. All the other pieces are replaceable.
Furthermore, you sign a Hopkins and it pushes Gabe Davis down, Shakir down, the new TE down in their looks. All players that should be getting more looks, not less. 2021 Davis is a fine #2 WR.
It’s completely unrealistic and untrue to think any team has a window that lasts a QB’s entire career.
Night Train
05-28-2023, 09:56 AM
" The Window Is Closing " wins created cliche of the year . I believe the winner gets a $100 gift cetificate for Anderson Windows upon installation.
https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-window-is-closing-barack-obama-89-78-74.jpg
Woodman
05-28-2023, 10:14 AM
As more players who technically represent themselves apparently use burner email accounts that their non-certified agents use to communicate directly with teams while posing as the player, some teams are deciding not to communicate with self-represented players via email.
Per a league source, multiple teams have been shying away from sending emails to and from receiver DeAndre Hopkins (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/8074/deandre-hopkins), given the possibility that they’ll be communicating not with Hopkins but with a non-certified agent who is pretending to be Hopkins. Instead, those teams insist on talking directly to Hopkins — and only Hopkins.
Some teams are shying away from email communication with DeAndre Hopkins - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/28/some-teams-are-shying-away-from-email-communication-with-deandre-hopkins/)
Woodman
05-28-2023, 10:16 AM
Tom Brady is retired. Unless he isn’t.
We know Brady is buying a slice of the Raiders, pending approval of the league at large. We also now know that Jimmy Garoppolo (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/11888/jimmy-garoppolo) might never play for the Raiders, given a foot injury from 2022 that sparked a massive overhaul of his Vegas contract — including the entire elimination of his $11.25 million signing bonus.
The Jimmy Garoppolo injury makes the Tom Brady angle more viable - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/28/the-jimmy-garoppolo-injury-makes-the-tom-brady-angle-more-viable/)
Canadian'eh!
05-28-2023, 11:41 AM
Tom Brady is retired. Unless he isn’t.
We know Brady is buying a slice of the Raiders, pending approval of the league at large. We also now know that Jimmy Garoppolo (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/11888/jimmy-garoppolo) might never play for the Raiders, given a foot injury from 2022 that sparked a massive overhaul of his Vegas contract — including the entire elimination of his $11.25 million signing bonus.
The Jimmy Garoppolo injury makes the Tom Brady angle more viable - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/05/28/the-jimmy-garoppolo-injury-makes-the-tom-brady-angle-more-viable/)
What does this have to do with Hopkins?
Canadian'eh!
05-28-2023, 12:10 PM
Bringing in Hopkins makes sense in terms of adding a real #2 to the team and relegating Davis to a more limited 3/4 role which is where he should be. Adding Hopkins after drafting Kincaid doesn’t make a ton of sense to me given you have to feed Hopkins the ball to keep him happy and get him going.
I get the can’t have enough weapons argument, but the only question on offense that matters is Allen getting back to where he needs to be.
I get what you're saying. But they gave Gabe 93 targets last year in 15 games. Diggs usually gets 160. If you give each of them 140-150 targets through 17 games, he should be happy enough.
The question is "Do you want to lead the league in catches or do you want to win?"
Diggs seems like the guy who wants to win if the playoff exits are any indication. Assuming Hopkins comes here, i'd think the same.
If both of them aren't on board with sharing the ball a little more for the sake of winning, then you're correct, it doesn't work.
Woodman
05-28-2023, 12:14 PM
What does this have to do with Hopkins?
tell me and we'll both know.
Woodman
05-28-2023, 12:15 PM
" The Window Is Closing " wins created cliche of the year . I believe the winner gets a $100 gift cetificate for Anderson Windows upon installation.
https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-the-window-is-closing-barack-obama-89-78-74.jpg
Coffee is for closers.
notacon
05-28-2023, 12:32 PM
It’s completely unrealistic and untrue to think any team has a window that lasts a QB’s entire career.
It’s completely unrealistic and untrue to think at the Bills “window” is even close to “closing”. It’s not. Not now or in the near future.
DraftBoy
05-28-2023, 12:58 PM
I get what you're saying. But they gave Gabe 93 targets last year in 15 games. Diggs usually gets 160. If you give each of them 140-150 targets through 17 games, he should be happy enough.
The question is "Do you want to lead the league in catches or do you want to win?"
Diggs seems like the guy who wants to win if the playoff exits are any indication. Assuming Hopkins comes here, i'd think the same.
If both of them aren't on board with sharing the ball a little more for the sake of winning, then you're correct, it doesn't work.
So that leaves how many for Kincaid, maybe 30? Make sense for a rookie, but it’s now what most hoped for when we spent a first rounder on a TE.
DraftBoy
05-28-2023, 12:58 PM
It’s completely unrealistic and untrue to think at the Bills “window” is even close to “closing”. It’s not. Not now or in the near future.
Sure thing.
notacon
05-28-2023, 01:01 PM
KC were definitely interested. They went further than the Bills did pre-draft. Reportedly the Bills and Chiefs are the only teams that got to talk to Hopkins in person before getting serious compensation discussion with the Cardinals and then contract parameters with Hopkins.
Obviously a lot has changed post draft. Personally I think Hopkins himself may have forced the issue. Think about it. The Cardinals, by their final decision, indicate that they would accept any compensation and be better than it is now. But why it didn't happen? Hopkins contract! If he is sticking to the Cards by saying no negotiation to even allow the Cards to pay part of his salary for prospective trade partner (which means Cards could get a better pick potentially), or tell any potential trade partner he's not going to renegotiate a new contract, the thing is dead. Why? He gets to choose where he goes and likely a bidding war for him to get a financial deal that betters what he has now from an overall perspective.
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I have no doubt that KC and the Bills had “substantive” trade talks with the Cards. What defines “substantive” and how close either of them got to getting even close to pulling the trigger remains questionable.
There is no doubt that Hopkins contract was a huge impediment. Trading a player means trading his contract and his cap hits. Giving up anything for a trade made that prospect even more unpalatable.
KC has already shown its limited stomach for paying big bucks on a WR when they refused to meet Hill’s demands. Again, ignore the cap hit for a moment as AVG/Y is much more critical because THAT is what a team is agreeing to pay a player.
When Albert Breer (who I have a lot of respect for) says “KC made progress, but OBJ’s deal ($15M base) more or less blew that progress up” means that KC was never going to finish a deal once it became clear what the cost would be. That is assuming that even with a trade, a renegotiated contract would have to be part of the deal.
So, the fact that KC had “substantive trade talks with Arizona” is irrelevant because they hit the brick wall of what a contact was going to cost them, which is assuming it would have to be more lucrative that OBJ’s deal.
The tweet following the one you posted for Mr. Greer tells the realty of the situation....
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This being a huge “maybe” is spot on.
I believe the “cost" of a Hopkins contract is MUCH greater for KC than Buffalo.
Why?
Because KC has two Super Bowl wins under their belt. The last one without a similar elite WR that cost a bundle. Why would they break the bank when they have already proved they can win a title without a true elite WR???
The answer is, they won’t.
The Bills are not in the same position. I do not know what it will take to get Hopkins under contract, but IF the Bills can win their first SB in history, the cost becomes irrelevant.
BUT, if they go all out and break the bank to sign him and STILL don’t win a SB THIS YEAR, that turns up the hot seat.
It’s going to be fascinating to see what happens. Anyone who says that know that the Bills (or another team) will sign Hopkins or not sign him is fooling themselves. NO ONE knows. Not until it’s done.
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notacon
05-28-2023, 01:02 PM
Sure thing.
Thanks you for agreeing with me.
What I wrote IS a “sure thing”.
Canadian'eh!
05-28-2023, 01:06 PM
So that leaves how many for Kincaid, maybe 30? Make sense for a rookie, but it’s now what most hoped for when we spent a first rounder on a TE.
I mean... I think Kincaid's targets depend a lot on how he plays and earns more targets. Josh will throw somewhere around 600 times. If you make plays, you'll see the ball. But if he gets 60 or so as a rookie (unless he's lighting it up) that's great (Knox and McKenzie each had 65 last year)
DraftBoy
05-28-2023, 01:14 PM
Thanks you for agreeing with me.
What I wrote IS a “sure thing”.
There is absolutely nothing that you write that is a sure thing. Don’t fool yourself.
DraftBoy
05-28-2023, 01:15 PM
I mean... I think Kincaid's targets depend a lot on how he plays and earns more targets. Josh will throw somewhere around 600 times. If you make plays, you'll see the ball. But if he gets 60 or so as a rookie (unless he's lighting it up) that's great (Knox and McKenzie each had 65 last year)
I think 30ish is pretty realistic for a #2 TE who is a rookie.
notacon
05-28-2023, 01:21 PM
There is absolutely nothing that you write that is a sure thing. Don’t fool yourself.
Same back at you.
Window is closing, nobody cares about sustained success if you never actually win anything. I’m fine with a desperation move at this point.
Agree....but Beane is still talking about sustained success.
I just don't believe 8 games of Hopkins at this stage of his career adds imminent success or helps down the road. This is 2023 Hopkins not 2019 Hopkins.
DraftBoy
05-28-2023, 08:56 PM
Agree....but Beane is still talking about sustained success.
I just don't believe 8 games of Hopkins at this stage of his career adds imminent success or helps down the road. This is 2023 Hopkins not 2019 Hopkins.
Beane talks but nobody but the most committed of fans actually believe him. Most just know he's just talking to talk. Part of the job.
Canadian'eh!
05-28-2023, 10:07 PM
Agree....but Beane is still talking about sustained success.
I just don't believe 8 games of Hopkins at this stage of his career adds imminent success or helps down the road. This is 2023 Hopkins not 2019 Hopkins.
Other than the PED suspension, Hopkins was healthy last year. No reason to think he’d miss games. His numbers were still good. Better than anyone we have besides Diggs. If they can afford him, he makes the team better.
swiper
05-29-2023, 04:34 AM
It’s completely unrealistic and untrue to think any team has a window that lasts a QB’s entire career.
That depends how you define a window. But I disagree on this point. As long as the QB is healthy.
As stated above, this fanboy false worry "the window is closing" is purely silly.
jamze132
05-29-2023, 05:49 AM
It’s completely unrealistic and untrue to think any team has a window that lasts a QB’s entire career.
How many Super Bowls did the Patriots win? I’d say they had a pretty big window.
DraftBoy
05-29-2023, 07:00 AM
How many Super Bowls did the Patriots win? I’d say they had a pretty big window.
Is Allen a once in a generation QB?
Forward_Lateral
05-29-2023, 08:09 AM
Is Allen a once in a generation QB?
You know that can't be answered yet.
But, you make a good point. The only QB since probably Montana, that whatever team he's on had a legit shot at winning a Championship is Brady. Rodgers won MVP on a couple of not so great teams, but those teams also didn't win anything, so who cares?
There's a huge difference between playoff window and Superbowl window. Is the SB window closed for the Bills? Hell no. Will it be open as long as Josh is QB? TBD. I would be happy with one superbowl, to be honest, and I'd rather it come within the next couple of years.
- - - Updated - - -
How many Super Bowls did the Patriots win? I’d say they had a pretty big window.
They had the greatest QB of all time, and the best roster management in the history of the NFL, and they got away with cheating on several occasions.
DraftBoy
05-29-2023, 08:32 AM
You know that can't be answered yet.
But, you make a good point. The only QB since probably Montana, that whatever team he's on had a legit shot at winning a Championship is Brady. Rodgers won MVP on a couple of not so great teams, but those teams also didn't win anything, so who cares?
There's a huge difference between playoff window and Superbowl window. Is the SB window closed for the Bills? Hell no. Will it be open as long as Josh is QB? TBD. I would be happy with one superbowl, to be honest, and I'd rather it come within the next couple of years.
- - - Updated - - -
They had the greatest QB of all time, and the best roster management in the history of the NFL, and they got away with cheating on several occasions.
I think we’re a lot closer to knowing that answer than any of us would like to admit.
Also what the hell is a playoff window? That sounds like a participation trophy fans made up to make themselves feel better about failure to make the Super Bowl.
ghz in pittsburgh
05-29-2023, 09:33 AM
Defense wins championships. I know people will point to the Chiefs and say not the case, but I think over the history of NFL playoffs, it is still the case. Even with the Chiefs and Mahomes, you can say their defense stepped up in 2nd half of both of their superbowl victories.
Brady and Belichick winning that many championship is perfect example. Almost none of Brady's superbowl wins are on the virtual of non-stop scoring. Rather, it is Belichick's defense that met up the challenge WHEN it was really needed. With a GOAT QB, given enough tries, he'll find a way to get it done.
I somehow hope and expect the Bills to follow the same path. But we are obviously not close. The bent-but-don't-break defense works well over a course of regular season, but in the playoffs, when there is crying need to get a stop, they alway fails. Allen, on the other hand, is not yet on the same level as Mahomes/Brady, who can CONSISTENTLY provide an answer on critical moments.
As a rising superstar QB, I like Alen recongizing and taking on the challenge of getting to that vert top tier. The D though, we don't have that superstar, HOF-nominee guy in his prime. Can't you imagine the Chiefs winning both superbowls without Chris Jones? The Pats had Richard Seymour, Vrable, and a bunch secondary guys in their time.
Forward_Lateral
05-29-2023, 10:19 AM
I think we’re a lot closer to knowing that answer than any of us would like to admit.
Also what the hell is a playoff window? That sounds like a participation trophy fans made up to make themselves feel better about failure to make the Super Bowl.
A team that makes the playoffs instead of losing 10 games every year?
notacon
05-29-2023, 11:21 AM
Defense wins championships. I know people will point to the Chiefs and say not the case, but I think over the history of NFL playoffs, it is still the case. Even with the Chiefs and Mahomes, you can say their defense stepped up in 2nd half of both of their superbowl victories.
Brady and Belichick winning that many championship is perfect example. Almost none of Brady's superbowl wins are on the virtual of non-stop scoring. Rather, it is Belichick's defense that met up the challenge WHEN it was really needed. With a GOAT QB, given enough tries, he'll find a way to get it done.
I somehow hope and expect the Bills to follow the same path. But we are obviously not close. The bent-but-don't-break defense works well over a course of regular season, but in the playoffs, when there is crying need to get a stop, they alway fails. Allen, on the other hand, is not yet on the same level as Mahomes/Brady, who can CONSISTENTLY provide an answer on critical moments.
As a rising superstar QB, I like Alen recongizing and taking on the challenge of getting to that vert top tier. The D though, we don't have that superstar, HOF-nominee guy in his prime. Can't you imagine the Chiefs winning both superbowls without Chris Jones? The Pats had Richard Seymour, Vrable, and a bunch secondary guys in their time.
I don’t buy that axiom in today’s game.
Not saying that defense is not important. Of course it is. But when an offense fails to score, is that more because of the lack of performance of the offense or directly because of the defense???
I’d say, more than not, it’s the lack of performance of the offense. That was certainly the case for every one of the Bills four losses last season.
Every. Single. One.
To answer your question...."Can't you imagine the Chiefs winning both superbowls without Chris Jones?” ABSOLUTELY YES, I CAN image that.
The more pertinent question is "Can you imagine the Chiefs winning both Super Bowls without Patrick Mahomes”??? And the answer is an unequivocally absolutely 100% sure No. NO! NO, NO NO!!!
The same goes with "Can you imagine the Pats winning as many Super Bowls as they did without Tom Brady”??? Same answer.....an unequivocally absolutely 100% sure No. NO! NO, NO NO!!!
When Josh Allen plays more mistake free football, like Mahomes does, the Bills will win a Super Bowl. He just has not.....yet.
That is not dissing Allen either. I belive he is the second bast QB in the NFL today. Hand in hand with Joe Burrow, with Hurts just a hair below those two. But, Mahomes is simply better. He just is.
Yes, there are individual defensive plays that are critical to success in the playoffs....my premise is that the emphasis has slowly but surely shifted from defense to offense.
Plus the statement that "Defense wins championships.” is a rather silly, in and of itself as it is an overgeneralization and simplification of a very complex sport, that depends on all three phases of the game (defense, offense and special teams) operating at as close to peak efficiency as possible) It’s just just as it is silly to proclaim that “Offense wins championships."
Offenses that perform at an extremely high level are almost impossible to stop by any defense. That’s the way the NFL wants it, and the rules have been changed to make that probable if not expected.
In today’s NFL, I’d say 65% offense and 35% defense.
notacon
05-29-2023, 11:38 AM
I think we’re a lot closer to knowing that answer than any of us would like to admit.
Also what the hell is a playoff window? That sounds like a participation trophy fans made up to make themselves feel better about failure to make the Super Bowl.
Your opinion stinks.
A “Super Bowl window” is simply a period of time when a team has a reasonable chance of getting to and winning a Super Bowl.
The Bills are well within that “window” and will probably be well within that window for the next 10 years or so....maybe longer, depending on the health of Josh Allen.
The idea that getting into the playoffs year after year is "sounds like a participation trophy fans made up to make themselves feel better about failure to make the Super Bowl” is pathetically uninformed and silly.
Repeatedly making the playoffs in the NFL is a special achievement. 78% of the NFL teams have NOT made the playoffs just TWO consecutive years.
NINETY percent of the NFL teams have NOT made the playoffs three years in a row. NINETY THREE percent of the team in the NFL have NOT made the playoffs 4 years in a row. Here are the current longest playoff streaks in the NFL...
<tbody>
Team
Seasons
Start Year
Kansas City Chiefs (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs)
8
2015
Buffalo Bills (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/buffalo-bills)
4
2019
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers)
3
2020
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
2
2021
San Francisco 49ers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-francisco-49ers)
2
2021
Cincinnati Bengals (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/cincinnati-bengals)
2
2021
Philadelphia Eagles (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/philadelphia-eagles)
2
2021
Jacksonville Jaguars (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars)
1
2022
Baltimore Ravens (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/baltimore-ravens)
1
2022
New York Giants (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-york-giants)
1
2022
Los Angeles Chargers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-chargers)
1
2022
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
1
2022
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
1
2022
Seattle Seahawks (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/seattle-seahawks)
1
2022
</tbody>
A “participation trophy” is one where ALL participants gets an award. Getting into the playoffs several years in a row is RARE in the NFL.
You want to **** on the Bills rare achievement???....that’s your business. What it shows is what kind of “fan” you are.
DraftBoy
05-29-2023, 01:06 PM
A team that makes the playoffs instead of losing 10 games every year?
What does making the playoffs by itself actually accomplish?
DraftBoy
05-29-2023, 01:07 PM
Your opinion stinks.
A “Super Bowl window” is simply a period of time when a team has a reasonable chance of getting to and winning a Super Bowl.
The Bills are well within that “window” and will probably be well within that window for the next 10 years or so....maybe longer, depending on the health of Josh Allen.
The idea that getting into the playoffs year after year is "sounds like a participation trophy fans made up to make themselves feel better about failure to make the Super Bowl” is pathetically uninformed and silly.
Repeatedly making the playoffs in the NFL is a special achievement. 78% of the NFL teams have NOT made the playoffs just TWO consecutive years.
NINETY percent of the NFL teams have NOT made the playoffs three years in a row. NINETY THREE percent of the team in the NFL have NOT made the playoffs 4 years in a row. Here are the current longest playoff streaks in the NFL...
<tbody>
Team
Seasons
Start Year
Kansas City Chiefs (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs)
8
2015
Buffalo Bills (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/buffalo-bills)
4
2019
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers)
3
2020
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
2
2021
San Francisco 49ers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-francisco-49ers)
2
2021
Cincinnati Bengals (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/cincinnati-bengals)
2
2021
Philadelphia Eagles (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/philadelphia-eagles)
2
2021
Jacksonville Jaguars (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars)
1
2022
Baltimore Ravens (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/baltimore-ravens)
1
2022
New York Giants (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-york-giants)
1
2022
Los Angeles Chargers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-chargers)
1
2022
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
1
2022
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
1
2022
Seattle Seahawks (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/seattle-seahawks)
1
2022
</tbody>
A “participation trophy” is one where ALL participants gets an award. Getting into the playoffs several years in a row is RARE in the NFL.
You want to **** on the Bills rare achievement???....that’s your business. What it shows is what kind of “fan” you are.
Nobody cares unless it ends with a Lombardi. I have zero issue being a fan whose expectation is to win a title, that is the goal after all.
Testify DB, Testify!
Some fans are so battered from the drought that they’re content to squabble for playoff scraps
mightysimi
05-29-2023, 02:15 PM
As we point to the Pats, remember they went a full decade without winning 2005-2015. They made the superbowl twice in that span but didn't win so to me it doesn't count. I don't think anyone here would be happy to get to the superbowl and lose again. Every year you fail to win, is a failure to accomplish everyone's stated goal of hoisting the Lombardi.
To me that is more the window can close and re-open providing the same level of QB is there. Not that the window is closed.
That in itself is a fairly funny concept there as we are essentially only down Edmunds from last year when we were the superbowl darlings and hopefully better on the Oline and in the slot. So essentially the same team now has a closed window?
Forward_Lateral
05-29-2023, 03:20 PM
What does making the playoffs by itself actually accomplish?
So you'd rather them suck than make the playoffs but not win a Superbowl?
OK.
Woodman
05-29-2023, 03:24 PM
What does making the playoffs by itself actually accomplish?
Gives you a chance to be World Champion.
Can't do it any other way I know of.
DraftBoy
05-29-2023, 03:46 PM
So you'd rather them suck than make the playoffs but not win a Superbowl?
OK.
Doesn’t matter if they don’t win the whole thing. Unless you take some enjoyment out of participating, simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything.
Forward_Lateral
05-29-2023, 08:02 PM
Doesn’t matter if they don’t win the whole thing. Unless you take some enjoyment out of participating, simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything.
Cool story
swiper
05-29-2023, 08:27 PM
Doesn’t matter if they don’t win the whole thing. Unless you take some enjoyment out of participating, simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything.
Sure it does.
ghz in pittsburgh
05-29-2023, 08:37 PM
In today’s NFL, I’d say 65% offense and 35% defense.
I don't want to get into extended argument here. Just say that we have different opinions. I'm more of a traditionalist who consider it is 50-50 between offense and defense, in other words, they are equally important.
DraftBoy
05-29-2023, 09:02 PM
Sure it does.
Based on?
Skooby
05-29-2023, 11:40 PM
Defense head coach calling defensive plays, what can go wrong ?
Bill Cody
05-30-2023, 09:49 AM
Based on?
So if nothing matters except a title with 32 teams you should average a Super Bowl win every 32 years. Some teams have done better than that, others worse. But logically as a fan of any team if the only reason to watch the games is the trophy that's a lot of time wasted for nothing.
I think Bills fans perhaps more than just about any other fan base wants to win a title very badly. Granted. But we also watch the games to be entertained. They're GAMES. So based on THAT also. If you haven't enjoyed the last several years more than the fallow wasteland that preceded it you're not really a fan of the game or you're not being honest or both.
Night Train
05-30-2023, 10:20 AM
Doesn’t matter if they don’t win the whole thing. Unless you take some enjoyment out of participating, simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything.
You drone on in many threads about only one winner in any sport and every other team is a loser. Awesome.
Your sports fan life must be extremely frustrating, unless you freeley jump on front running bandwagons to mend the wounds.
I get what my sports team are. I have zero control over it and keep it in perspective without thin skin. Life is good and goes on.
swiper
05-30-2023, 10:21 AM
Based on?
It was already explained to you.
Forward_Lateral
05-30-2023, 10:36 AM
You drone on in many threads about only one winner in any sport and every other team is a loser. Awesome.
Your sports fan life must be extremely frustrating, unless you freeley jump on front running bandwagons to mend the wounds.
I get what my sports team are. I have zero control over it and keep it in perspective without thin skin. Life is good and goes on.
This. I would much rather watch a team that wins most of the weeks I watch, and if they lose in the playoffs, oh well. AT least I was entertained for the entire winter, and not miserable every week watching a turd show
Once Josh Allen is gone it’ll be damn near impossible to approach Bills games with that unbridled passion and excitement again. It took us almost 30 years to find our next franchise QB, and knowing the main demographic of this board they don’t have another 20, much less 30 years left to win a Lombardi.
The Bills need to win now… “aww shucks at least we were competitive” is a loser mentality adopted by battered fans who have been conditioned to accept less than the ultimate goal. If you can’t get it done with Allen then it’ll never happen.
If this was 2017 with that roster then aww shucks would be appropriate.
Night Train
05-30-2023, 12:27 PM
a loser mentality adopted by battered fans
Yes, we are all "battered". WTF ?
:rolleyes:
ghz in pittsburgh
05-30-2023, 04:18 PM
Albert Breer's article on Hopkins:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/05/30/inside-deandre-hopkins-release-options-bills-chiefs
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
And if you add all that up, I think we get one of two conclusions. Either Hopkins finds someone to pay up and takes the bag. Or, he takes less to chase a ring with Kansas City or Buffalo, with the idea that putting together a full, healthy 2023 could burnish his legacy and perhaps set up one last payday next March.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
What we know is by the end in Houston, Hopkins was banged up enough to where he barely practiced at all during the season—and that was three and a half years ago, and before he started missing time due to injury. While over his first eight NFL seasons, he played in 126 of 128 games (plus six of six playoff games), he’s missed 15 of 34 games (six due to a PED suspension) the past two years.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
This. I would much rather watch a team that wins most of the weeks I watch, and if they lose in the playoffs, oh well. AT least I was entertained for the entire winter, and not miserable every week watching a turd show
This. I get what DB is saying about ultimate conclusion but if you don't get it...more happy weeks are simply better than more not happy weeks from watching a sports team you've loved your whole life.
Winning is more fun than losing week to week.
90's Bills never won an sb...but they gave me so much happy tearing teams up.
DraftBoy
05-31-2023, 11:41 AM
You drone on in many threads about only one winner in any sport and every other team is a loser. Awesome.
Your sports fan life must be extremely frustrating, unless you freeley jump on front running bandwagons to mend the wounds.
I get what my sports team are. I have zero control over it and keep it in perspective without thin skin. Life is good and goes on.
Why would it be frustrating? It’s a game, not real life.
DraftBoy
05-31-2023, 11:44 AM
So if nothing matters except a title with 32 teams you should average a Super Bowl win every 32 years. Some teams have done better than that, others worse. But logically as a fan of any team if the only reason to watch the games is the trophy that's a lot of time wasted for nothing.
I think Bills fans perhaps more than just about any other fan base wants to win a title very badly. Granted. But we also watch the games to be entertained. They're GAMES. So based on THAT also. If you haven't enjoyed the last several years more than the fallow wasteland that preceded it you're not really a fan of the game or you're not being honest or both.
Can’t disagree about the wasted time. That’s why I rarely if ever just watch the game by itself. It’s just entertainment, nothing more or less. The goal is to win it all, if you don’t that sucks but life goes on as soon as the clock hits zero.
It’s always more entertaining when they are winning, but that doesn’t change the goal. My feelings or entertainment level have nothing to do with what the expectation should be for every team. That’s their job.
notacon
05-31-2023, 01:01 PM
Nobody cares unless it ends with a Lombardi. I have zero issue being a fan whose expectation is to win a title, that is the goal after all.
“Nobody care”?!?!? Really...”NOBODY”?!?!? were you alive during the years long drought??? Or h=did you spend all that time with your head up your butt???
Bullcrap. Total bullcrap.
Like I said earlier, your obtuse and ridiculous standard shows what kind of fan you are.
sukie
05-31-2023, 01:16 PM
Fandom is not apathy of outcome. Growing numb to disappointment is great and all but really wanting nothing else but high success is not something you can call “false fandom”.
notacon
05-31-2023, 01:16 PM
Testify DB, Testify!
Some fans are so battered from the drought that they’re content to squabble for playoff scraps
Another silly take. Getting to the NFL playoffs is NOT “scraps”. Ask the TWENTY FIVE teams TODAY that have not been to the playoffs twice in a row recently.
Or the (usual) five or more team that made the playoffs last year but will miss it this season. Or the seven teams that made the playoffs in 2021 but missed them in 2022. Or the five teams that made the playoffs win 2020 but missed them in 2021.
I wonder (not really....I know the answer) the whiners that want to **** on the Bills achievements hold themselves up to the same standard in their lives and work???
I suspect that they would wither and crawl into the corner in the fetal position if they were watched so closely and judged on their performance at work even 1% as much as NFL teams and players are.
So-called “fans at are only “content” if their team wins a Super Bowl are morons that I suspect enjoy being miserable...no....they LOOK for ways to be miserable,
notacon
05-31-2023, 01:18 PM
Doesn’t matter if they don’t win the whole thing. Unless you take some enjoyment out of participating, simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything.
BULL****!!!!!! TOTAL BULL****!!!!!
sukie
05-31-2023, 01:28 PM
BULL****!!!!!! TOTAL BULL****!!!!!
I don’t want to squeak into the playoffs “with help” year after year. That would blow and in saying so doesn’t make me less a fan than the guy, say in Vegas, walking around with a Bills Wildcard Tshirt.
notacon
05-31-2023, 02:22 PM
I don’t want to squeak into the playoffs “with help” year after year. That would blow and in saying so doesn’t make me less a fan than the guy, say in Vegas, walking around with a Bills Wildcard Tshirt.
Huh?!?!? NO team "squeak into the playoffs “with help” year after year”. And the Bills have not done that.
The FACT (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026289&viewfull=1#post5026289) (yeah...facts are pesky things), only TWO TEAMS are on a 4+ year playoff consecutive streak. KC & Bills.
Only THREE teams are currently on a 3+ year playoff consecutive streak. Only SEVEN teams are currently on a 2+ year playoff consecutive streak.
And not ANY of those seven teams "squeak into the playoffs “with help”” in either of those years, much less “year after year”
More facts....in the 56 year history of the Super Bowl era NFL, there are SEVEN TEAMS that have never been in the playoffs 4+ consecutive years.
Only TWELVE teams (in 56 years) have ever been in the playoffs 6+ consecutive years. The Buffalo Bills are one of those teams.
That achievement has been done 18 separate times, with only FOUR teams doing it more than once....
Dallas - 3 times:
-9 years in a row 1975-1983
-8 years in a row 1966-1973
-6 years in a row 1991-1996
Kansas City - twice:
-8 years in a row 2015-2022
-6 years in a row 1990-1995
Pittsburgh - twice:
-8 years in a row 1972-1979
-6 years in a row 1992-1997
Green Bay - twice:
-8 years in a row 2009-2016
-6 years in a row 1993-1998
Only EIGHT TEAMS have done it ONCE. Bills included.
Those 18 times that it was done, a majority of the time with either a HOF QB or a future HOF QB (once he become eligible)...
Peyton Manning
Roger Staubach
Joe Montana
Terry Bradshaw
Steve Young
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton
Troy Aikman
Brett Farve
Jim Kelly
Almost assuredly Future HOF’ers:
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Patrick Mahomes
Other great QB’s that were instrumental in achieving the very rare 6+ consecutive years making the playoffs:
Joh Hadl
Danny White
Don Merideth
Craig Morton
Daryle Lamonica
Ken Stabler
Funny you should being up Vegas. Being in Vegas finally has me being able to care about playoff hockey. The Vegas Golden Knights have not only made the Stanley Cup Finals two years in their first six in existence, they have made the playoffs all but one of those years.
Tell the long suffering Buffalo Sabre fan (I gave up on them years ago...although lost most interest in hockey years ago) that are in a TWELVE YEAR playoff drought that making the playoffs (don’t forget that making the NHL playoffs is exponentially easier than doing the same in the NFL) is nothing more than the equivalent of "a participation trophy (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026256&viewfull=1#post5026256)” or that "Nobody cares unless it ends with a (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026301&viewfull=1#post5026301)” Stanley Cup....or getting in the playoffs is “scraps (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026307&viewfull=1#post5026307)” or "simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026343&viewfull=1#post5026343)”. :rolleyes:
To sum up....the FACTS show that getting to the playoffs in the NFL is NOT like a participation trophy and NOT scraps, and DOES mean something....especially if done several times in a row.
Getting into the playoffs even just 4 consecutive years is pretty RARE and should be celebrated, not CRAPPED ON!!!!
Huh?!?!? NO team "squeak into the playoffs “with help” year after year”. And the Bills have not done that.
The FACT (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026289&viewfull=1#post5026289) (yeah...facts are pesky things), only TWO TEAMS are on a 4+ year playoff consecutive streak. KC & Bills.
Only THREE teams are currently on a 3+ year playoff consecutive streak. Only SEVEN teams are currently on a 2+ year playoff consecutive streak.
And not ANY of those seven teams "squeak into the playoffs “with help”” in either of those years, much less “year after year”
More facts....in the 56 year history of the Super Bowl era NFL, there are SEVEN TEAMS that have never been in the playoffs 4+ consecutive years.
Only TWELVE teams (in 56 years) have ever been in the playoffs 6+ consecutive years. The Buffalo Bills are one of those teams.
That achievement has been done 18 separate times, with only FOUR teams doing it more than once....
Dallas - 3 times:
-9 years in a row 1975-1983
-8 years in a row 1966-1973
-6 years in a row 1991-1996
Kansas City - twice:
-8 years in a row 2015-2022
-6 years in a row 1990-1995
Pittsburgh - twice:
-8 years in a row 1972-1979
-6 years in a row 1992-1997
Green Bay - twice:
-8 years in a row 2009-2016
-6 years in a row 1993-1998
Only EIGHT TEAMS have done it ONCE. Bills included.
Those 18 times that it was done, a majority of the time with either a HOF QB or a future HOF QB (once he become eligible)...
Peyton Manning
Roger Staubach
Joe Montana
Terry Bradshaw
Steve Young
Warren Moon
Fran Tarkenton
Troy Aikman
Brett Farve
Jim Kelly
Almost assuredly Future HOF’ers:
Tom Brady
Aaron Rodgers
Patrick Mahomes
Other great QB’s that were instrumental in achieving the very rare 6+ consecutive years making the playoffs:
Joh Hadl
Danny White
Don Merideth
Craig Morton
Daryle Lamonica
Ken Stabler
Funny you should being up Vegas. Being in Vegas finally has me being able to care about playoff hockey. The Vegas Golden Knights have not only made the Stanley Cup Finals two years in their first six in existence, they have made the playoffs all but one of those years.
Tell the long suffering Buffalo Sabre fan (I gave up on them years ago...although lost most interest in hockey years ago) that are in a TWELVE YEAR playoff drought that making the playoffs (don’t forget that making the NHL playoffs is exponentially easier than doing the same in the NFL) is nothing more than the equivalent of "a participation trophy (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026256&viewfull=1#post5026256)” or that "Nobody cares unless it ends with a (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026301&viewfull=1#post5026301)” Stanley Cup....or getting in the playoffs is “scraps (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026307&viewfull=1#post5026307)” or "simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026343&viewfull=1#post5026343)”. :rolleyes:
To sum up....the FACTS show that getting to the playoffs in the NFL is NOT like a participation trophy and NOT scraps, and DOES mean something....especially if done several times in a row.
Getting into the playoffs even just 4 consecutive years is pretty RARE and should be celebrated, not CRAPPED ON!!!!
You still want to get to the playoffs to accomplish a higher goal. You don't prepare to make the playoffs you are preparing for the higher goal. In the Sabres case it is a big deal because the players need playoff experience and it is a step towards the higher goal. In the Bills case it is just more of the same clearly starting to struggle to get over the hump and be better than all comers on game day consistently.
There are a lot of good signs and bad signs. Take them for what you want ... but don't deny some exist and others don't.
You can throw out the entire season from hell in what you are looking at and the team still looks ill prepared at times with zero built in to rebound.
Woodman
05-31-2023, 05:07 PM
Defense head coach calling defensive plays, what can go wrong ?
notacon
06-01-2023, 02:36 PM
You still want to get to the playoffs to accomplish a higher goal. You don't prepare to make the playoffs you are preparing for the higher goal. In the Sabres case it is a big deal because the players need playoff experience and it is a step towards the higher goal. In the Bills case it is just more of the same clearly starting to struggle to get over the hump and be better than all comers on game day consistently.
There are a lot of good signs and bad signs. Take them for what you want ... but don't deny some exist and others don't.
I agree 100% that the “higher goal” is always the ultimate goal.
The crapping on getting to the playoffs (especially if done repeatedly) as the equivalent of "a participation trophy (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026256&viewfull=1#post5026256)” or that "Nobody cares unless it ends with a (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026301&viewfull=1#post5026301)” SB title....or getting in the playoffs is “scraps (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026307&viewfull=1#post5026307)” or "simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026343&viewfull=1#post5026343)” is what is total rubbish.
Another interesting fact when looking at the data of consecutive playoff seasons is (duh!) the longer the streak the higher the chances to get into and win a Super Bowl.
Nine of the fifteen times a team has had 4 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB. The six times they did get to the SB (every team that did, did so only once) four lost the game and two won.
Four of the thirteen times a team has had 5 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB.
One of the seven times a team has had 6 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB.
One of the two times a team has had 7 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB (Houston Oilers, 1987-1993).
NONE of the six times a team has had 8 consecutive playoff seasons....or the two times a team has had 9 consecutive playoff seasons....or the ONE team that has had 11 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not get into a Super Bowl.
Only one of those teams did not win a Super Bowl during their streak....1979 LA Rams...the one time they got there.
The chart is very interesting....
<tbody>
SB win
SB Loss
Team
Seasons
Start
End
3
2
New England Patriots (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-england-patriots)
11
2009
2019
1
1
Indianapolis Colts (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/indianapolis-colts)
9
2002
2010
1
1
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
9
1975
1983
3
0
San Francisco 49ers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-francisco-49ers)
8
1983
1990
2
1
Kansas City Chiefs (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs)
8
2015
3
0
Pittsburgh Steelers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers)
8
1972
1979
0
1
Los Angeles Rams (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-rams)
8
1973
1980
1
1
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
8
1966
1973
1
0
Green Bay Packers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/green-bay-packers)
8
2009
2016
1
0
San Francisco 49ers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-francisco-49ers)
7
1992
1998
0
0
Houston Oilers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/houston-oilers)
7
1987
1993
0
3
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
6
1973
1978
3
0
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
6
1991
1996
0
1
Pittsburgh Steelers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers)
6
1992
1997
0
1
Green Bay Packers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/green-bay-packers)
6
1993
1998
0
0
Kansas City Chiefs (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs)
6
1990
1995
0
4
Buffalo Bills (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/buffalo-bills)
6
1988
1993
1
0
Oakland Raiders (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/oakland-raiders)
6
1972
1977
1
0
Baltimore Ravens (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/baltimore-ravens)
5
2008
2012
0
0
Cleveland Browns (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/cleveland-browns)
5
1985
1989
0
1
Philadelphia Eagles (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/philadelphia-eagles)
5
2000
2004
1
1
Denver Broncos (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/denver-broncos)
5
2011
2015
0
0
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
5
1996
2000
2
0
New England Patriots (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-england-patriots)
5
2003
2007
1
0
Chicago Bears (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/chicago-bears)
5
1984
1988
0
1
Seattle Seahawks (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/seattle-seahawks)
5
2003
2007
1
1
Seattle Seahawks (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/seattle-seahawks)
5
2012
2016
0
2
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
5
1981
1985
2
1
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
5
1970
1974
0
0
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
5
1997
2001
0
0
Cincinnati Bengals (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/cincinnati-bengals)
5
2011
2015
0
0
Green Bay Packers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/green-bay-packers)
4
2001
2004
0
0
San Diego Chargers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-diego-chargers)
4
1979
1982
0
0
New Orleans Saints (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-orleans-saints)
4
2017
2020
0
0
San Diego Chargers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-diego-chargers)
4
2006
2009
0
1
Oakland Raiders (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/oakland-raiders)
4
1967
1970
0
0
Los Angeles Rams (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-rams)
4
1983
1986
0
0
Jacksonville Jaguars (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars)
4
1996
1999
0
0
Los Angeles Raiders (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-raiders)
4
1982
1985
1
0
New York Giants (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-york-giants)
4
2005
2008
1
0
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers)
4
1999
2002
0
1
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
4
1968
1971
0
1
Washington Redskins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/washington-commanders)
4
1971
1974
0
1
Philadelphia Eagles (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/philadelphia-eagles)
4
1978
1981
0
0
Pittsburgh Steelers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers)
4
2014
2017
0
0
Buffalo Bills (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/buffalo-bills)
4
2019
</tbody>
It’s pretty obvious, as the Bills extend their consecutive playoff streak the chances they get into and win the SB gets better and better.
It should go without saying (but it does) getting into the playoffs year after year simply means that the team is performing at an extremely high level. Yeah, the Bills have not won a Super Bowl...YET. But, they will.
sukie
06-01-2023, 02:41 PM
Great Ceasar’s ghost! The more you make playoffs the higher odds that you make the SB? Who woulda thunk?
Now if only it was true that the more you make the Super Bowl the better the chance you win one.
I saw a graph that showed Zero chance if you don’t make the playoffs. I can’t find it.
notacon
06-01-2023, 03:26 PM
Great Ceasar’s ghost! The more you make playoffs the higher odds that you make the SB? Who woulda thunk?
Now if only it was true that the more you make the Super Bowl the better the chance you win one.
I saw a graph that showed Zero chance if you don’t make the playoffs. I can’t find it.
Like I said...."It should go without saying (but it does)...”
When some thunder heads crap on making the playoffs they need to be reminded that doing so is, in and of itself, an accomplishment and NOT "a participation trophy (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026256&viewfull=1#post5026256)” or that "Nobody cares unless it ends with a (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026301&viewfull=1#post5026301)” SB title....or getting in the playoffs is “scraps (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026307&viewfull=1#post5026307)” or "simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026343&viewfull=1#post5026343)” is what is total rubbish.
sukie
06-01-2023, 04:28 PM
Second round exit or earlier consistently is really not that much different than missing altogether. Just a worse draft pick.
I agree 100% that the “higher goal” is always the ultimate goal.
The crapping on getting to the playoffs (especially if done repeatedly) as the equivalent of "a participation trophy (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026256&viewfull=1#post5026256)” or that "Nobody cares unless it ends with a (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026301&viewfull=1#post5026301)” SB title....or getting in the playoffs is “scraps (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026307&viewfull=1#post5026307)” or "simply getting to the playoffs doesn’t mean anything (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5026343&viewfull=1#post5026343)” is what is total rubbish.
Another interesting fact when looking at the data of consecutive playoff seasons is (duh!) the longer the streak the higher the chances to get into and win a Super Bowl.
Nine of the fifteen times a team has had 4 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB. The six times they did get to the SB (every team that did, did so only once) four lost the game and two won.
Four of the thirteen times a team has had 5 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB.
One of the seven times a team has had 6 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB.
One of the two times a team has had 7 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not even get into the SB (Houston Oilers, 1987-1993).
NONE of the six times a team has had 8 consecutive playoff seasons....or the two times a team has had 9 consecutive playoff seasons....or the ONE team that has had 11 consecutive playoff seasons, they did not get into a Super Bowl.
Only one of those teams did not win a Super Bowl during their streak....1979 LA Rams...the one time they got there.
The chart is very interesting....
<tbody>
SB win
SB Loss
Team
Seasons
Start
End
3
2
New England Patriots (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-england-patriots)
11
2009
2019
1
1
Indianapolis Colts (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/indianapolis-colts)
9
2002
2010
1
1
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
9
1975
1983
3
0
San Francisco 49ers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-francisco-49ers)
8
1983
1990
2
1
Kansas City Chiefs (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs)
8
2015
3
0
Pittsburgh Steelers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers)
8
1972
1979
0
1
Los Angeles Rams (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-rams)
8
1973
1980
1
1
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
8
1966
1973
1
0
Green Bay Packers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/green-bay-packers)
8
2009
2016
1
0
San Francisco 49ers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-francisco-49ers)
7
1992
1998
0
0
Houston Oilers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/houston-oilers)
7
1987
1993
0
3
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
6
1973
1978
3
0
Dallas Cowboys (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/dallas-cowboys)
6
1991
1996
0
1
Pittsburgh Steelers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers)
6
1992
1997
0
1
Green Bay Packers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/green-bay-packers)
6
1993
1998
0
0
Kansas City Chiefs (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs)
6
1990
1995
0
4
Buffalo Bills (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/buffalo-bills)
6
1988
1993
1
0
Oakland Raiders (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/oakland-raiders)
6
1972
1977
1
0
Baltimore Ravens (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/baltimore-ravens)
5
2008
2012
0
0
Cleveland Browns (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/cleveland-browns)
5
1985
1989
0
1
Philadelphia Eagles (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/philadelphia-eagles)
5
2000
2004
1
1
Denver Broncos (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/denver-broncos)
5
2011
2015
0
0
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
5
1996
2000
2
0
New England Patriots (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-england-patriots)
5
2003
2007
1
0
Chicago Bears (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/chicago-bears)
5
1984
1988
0
1
Seattle Seahawks (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/seattle-seahawks)
5
2003
2007
1
1
Seattle Seahawks (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/seattle-seahawks)
5
2012
2016
0
2
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
5
1981
1985
2
1
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
5
1970
1974
0
0
Miami Dolphins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/miami-dolphins)
5
1997
2001
0
0
Cincinnati Bengals (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/cincinnati-bengals)
5
2011
2015
0
0
Green Bay Packers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/green-bay-packers)
4
2001
2004
0
0
San Diego Chargers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-diego-chargers)
4
1979
1982
0
0
New Orleans Saints (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-orleans-saints)
4
2017
2020
0
0
San Diego Chargers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/san-diego-chargers)
4
2006
2009
0
1
Oakland Raiders (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/oakland-raiders)
4
1967
1970
0
0
Los Angeles Rams (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-rams)
4
1983
1986
0
0
Jacksonville Jaguars (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars)
4
1996
1999
0
0
Los Angeles Raiders (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/los-angeles-raiders)
4
1982
1985
1
0
New York Giants (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/new-york-giants)
4
2005
2008
1
0
Tampa Bay Buccaneers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers)
4
1999
2002
0
1
Minnesota Vikings (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/minnesota-vikings)
4
1968
1971
0
1
Washington Redskins (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/washington-commanders)
4
1971
1974
0
1
Philadelphia Eagles (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/philadelphia-eagles)
4
1978
1981
0
0
Pittsburgh Steelers (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers)
4
2014
2017
0
0
Buffalo Bills (https://champsorchumps.us/team/nfl/buffalo-bills)
4
2019
</tbody>
It’s pretty obvious, as the Bills extend their consecutive playoff streak the chances they get into and win the SB gets better and better.
It should go without saying (but it does) getting into the playoffs year after year simply means that the team is performing at an extremely high level. Yeah, the Bills have not won a Super Bowl...YET. But, they will.
I agree with that you have to get there so you can take your shot. Getting there gives you the opportunity. But our team seems to underperform on a pretty consistent basis. That is what I am pointing out and asking questions about. At some point you have to consider there is something in the formula that puts you well positioned to win a % of regular season games and not well enough positioned to win post-season games. There has been change. It needs to manifest itself into the formula where the team comes up more competitive in the post season. They need to figure out how to follow through. It might mean you cluster up the % of wins to try and get over the hump. Well you actually take more chances to try and win more games because you aren't afraid to lose more either -- which means you might lose more.
If I see that from McDermott this season I am on board but I am very weary of the hype machine that relies too much on Josh Allen. Everyone over there, players, coaches, the box office staff god dammit--they all gotta be pissed off to the max the way the season went last year. The reset needs to have a heavy dose of trauma training on top of just dealing with the onslaught of other bull**** they put up with. Everyone is going to rebound pissed off and ready for blood. Recharge those batteries. We need our guys in a position to succeed then let them play football. This little underlying thread of conservativism not being the way to win in the NFL then trying to employ that strategy and hope Josh Allen can cover it up has to go away. We need everyone to have the killer instinct Josh Allen has so he doesn't get overloaded and have to push to make plays. The plays have to start happening organically. We need to be more methodical on offense and more disruptive on defense.
They need to figure out how to get this going on here to get over the next hump. Honestly, we don't have any cupcakes in our schedule right now. It looks brutal. Any time we flutter there is a good chance the other team will beat us. None of those games you can kinda wade through and still come out on top because you have a good team. Even getting to the playoffs could be harder this season but it does have to play out.
Night Train
06-01-2023, 05:40 PM
Back on topic...if anyone can remember the thread title..
Houston has just under 17 Mil in cap space. Sounds like his next team to me. I think his actual market now with teams having spent their $ already for this year is next to dead. Time to play mercenary and get paid. His old team has the $.
ghz in pittsburgh
06-01-2023, 07:43 PM
WGR is saying no Hopkins but I doubt they have any insider info. Tim Graham is making the same suggestion...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Source: Free agent DeAndre Hopkins “a long shot” to sign with Bills, plus insight from other NFL execs <a href="https://t.co/V8Qof0eg5R">https://t.co/V8Qof0eg5R</a></p>— Tim Graham (@ByTimGraham) <a href="https://twitter.com/ByTimGraham/status/1664331016876466193?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 1, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Skooby
06-01-2023, 10:34 PM
/.
POTLAND PSILBYLO
06-01-2023, 11:19 PM
I think we are underrating our WR room if we think DHOP is worth sacrificing anyone.
notacon
06-02-2023, 02:14 PM
I agree with that you have to get there so you can take your shot. Getting there gives you the opportunity. But our team seems to underperform on a pretty consistent basis. That is what I am pointing out and asking questions about. At some point you have to consider there is something in the formula that puts you well positioned to win a % of regular season games and not well enough positioned to win post-season games. There has been change. It needs to manifest itself into the formula where the team comes up more competitive in the post season. They need to figure out how to follow through. It might mean you cluster up the % of wins to try and get over the hump. Well you actually take more chances to try and win more games because you aren't afraid to lose more either -- which means you might lose more.
If I see that from McDermott this season I am on board but I am very weary of the hype machine that relies too much on Josh Allen. Everyone over there, players, coaches, the box office staff god dammit--they all gotta be pissed off to the max the way the season went last year. The reset needs to have a heavy dose of trauma training on top of just dealing with the onslaught of other bull**** they put up with. Everyone is going to rebound pissed off and ready for blood. Recharge those batteries. We need our guys in a position to succeed then let them play football. This little underlying thread of conservativism not being the way to win in the NFL then trying to employ that strategy and hope Josh Allen can cover it up has to go away. We need everyone to have the killer instinct Josh Allen has so he doesn't get overloaded and have to push to make plays. The plays have to start happening organically. We need to be more methodical on offense and more disruptive on defense.
They need to figure out how to get this going on here to get over the next hump. Honestly, we don't have any cupcakes in our schedule right now. It looks brutal. Any time we flutter there is a good chance the other team will beat us. None of those games you can kinda wade through and still come out on top because you have a good team. Even getting to the playoffs could be harder this season but it does have to play out.
I appreciate what you are saying and I agree with most of it in theory. The 2021 13-second loss was a huge disappointment but showed that the Bills were on the cusp of getting over that hump.
The off season moves they made, addressed the issues that prevented full success. Then reality hit in the form of an amazing amount of devastating injuries.
Losing Hyde for almost the full season has huge. Losing Von Miller for the end of the season and the playoffs negated THE most critical move the Bills made to get over the hump.
Tre’ White taking much more of the season to get back to even close to top form hurt. Elam not seizing the starting #2 CB jib (which he still has not done) made it all the more difficult to get over that hump.
On top of all that, the events that transpired during the season were unprecedented (in and of themselves...especially having a player literally die on the field in freakin week #17) was an anchor.
But the biggest issues were still on offense as I have been beating the accurate drum for months now....the troubles with the offense are what were at the heart of every single of the four losses last season.
Unlike with defense, injuries did not play a critical role. Although the ankle injury to Davis did have some effect, as well as Josh's elbow injury.
Losing Daboll had a bigger effect than many want to admit (because it would show that so many crapping on him was unfounded and shortsighted....the same way crapping on Frazier is unfounded and shortsighted).
Too much was put on Josh being superman and the reality is that, just like last year addressing the defensive issues (albeit negated because of key injuries) the Bills have in fact, taken place, the offensive issues have been addressed this off season with the 25 man offense roster getting a massive make-over of over a third new faces....whcih alosmt every one of them )most likely) an improvement.
BIG changes that most of us have been harping on. Key additions to the O-line....both signing Connor McGovern and drafting O’Cyrus Torrence....drafting the best pass catcher in the 2023 draft, bringing a dimension on offense (a fast, big, pass catching TE with elite hands and route running skills)....replacing fully ONE HALF of the WR room....adding a big, tough RB who has shown the ability excel in short yardage situations.
All of these have me very optimistic that the Bills have gone a LONG way to "figure out how to get this going on here to get over the next hump”.
The beauty of the NFL is that every season is different. Teams’ rosters change regularly with about 25% of the previous roster being replaced.
The strength of the Bills comes from their CORE, which is as solid as can be.
I don’t buy the idea that "our team seems to underperform on a pretty consistent basis”. They have not the past four seasons which is why they have the second most wins in that time.
The issue is disappointing in the playoffs for sure. Not even close to uncorrectable....and I would opine that it is likely to change this season for the reasons I have stated.
But, it IS an issue, that the whole team is vitally aware and cognizant of. The reality is it is extremely difficult to even get into the SB game, much less win it. Even the teams with the longest playoff streaks did not just waltz into the big game.
The chart above tells all. Even with the best team dynasty (concentrating on the post-cap era, and the post ‘let’s protect the QB and encourage the passing game’ era since the turn of the century) in NFL history...NE....their 11 season streak STILL had them not getting to the SB more than half of the time (5 of 11).
Their playoff streak started in 2009....the year by year result?....
2009 - No SB
2010 - No SB
2011 - Lost SB
2012 - No SB
2013 - No SB
2014 - Win SB (the SIXTH year of the streak)
2015 - No SB
2016 - Win SB
2017 - Lose SB
2018 - Win SB
2019 - No SB
2020 - Miss playoffs
#2 on the list, Indy (9 consecutive years between 2002 and 2010) is even more stark....
2002 - No SB
2003 - No SB
2004 - No SB
2005 - No SB
2006 - Win SB (the FIFTH year of the streak)
2007 - No SB
2008 - No SB
2009 - Lose SB
2010 - Miss playoffs
I take the 10,000 ft view. I’m grateful that the close to two decade era of hopelessly middling to terrible teams (and 54 years of one terrible owner) with a long parade of underwhelming to terrible QB’s is OVER.
The Bills WILL win at LEAST one Super Bowl in the near future. To not have faith in is simply not in my mindset and I cannot comprehend any Bills fan who called themselves a “fan” can make themselves so miserable thinking that way.
notacon
06-02-2023, 02:28 PM
Back on topic...if anyone can remember the thread title..
Houston has just under 17 Mil in cap space. Sounds like his next team to me. I think his actual market now with teams having spent their $ already for this year is next to dead. Time to play mercenary and get paid. His old team has the $.
Well....since it's rather obvious that the Bills are almost assuredly out of the Hopkins bandwagon (which looks like the smart thing more and more), the topic of this thread becomes less and less relevant.
But, I think the chances of Hopkins going back to Houston is between slim and none. They are in 100% ’tank and rebuild’ mode. Adding Hopkins would make little sense. I suspect there is no love lost between the team and Hopkins either.
Cleveland is popping up as the team that makes more sense. They have $13.8M in cap space. The bad taste of the dumb Deshaun Watson trade can maybe be made less stinky if they reunite Hopkins and Watson.
Amiri Cooper is a top 15 WR, but has a pretty dismal 59% target to catch ratio. After Cooper and Donovan Peoples-Jones, they get a very thin.
Maybe adding Hopkins could save the Browns from the cellar in the AFC North. :rolleyes:
sukie
06-02-2023, 02:36 PM
I’d rather go hard pass. Too much cap issues the next few years.
Lexwhat
06-03-2023, 07:48 PM
Well....since it's rather obvious that the Bills are almost assuredly out of the Hopkins bandwagon (which looks like the smart thing more and more), the topic of this thread becomes less and less relevant.
But, I think the chances of Hopkins going back to Houston is between slim and none. They are in 100% ’tank and rebuild’ mode. Adding Hopkins would make little sense. I suspect there is no love lost between the team and Hopkins either.
Cleveland is popping up as the team that makes more sense. They have $13.8M in cap space. The bad taste of the dumb Deshaun Watson trade can maybe be made less stinky if they reunite Hopkins and Watson.
Amiri Cooper is a top 15 WR, but has a pretty dismal 59% target to catch ratio. After Cooper and Donovan Peoples-Jones, they get a very thin.
Maybe adding Hopkins could save the Browns from the cellar in the AFC North. :rolleyes:
Interesting to see the progress since Hopkins was released. At first, I thought the Bills had the best chance of landing Hopkins. That was with my (baseless) assumption that he would agree to a 1-2 year incentive-heavy deal with a Base salary of $10 million a year. However, it seems he wants something equal to or above what Beckham received, which to me doesn't make sense. If anyone pays Hopkins $15-$20 million a year, it's best the Bills stay away. I don't think the Chiefs or Ravens are going to pay that either. I doubt the Dolphins or Jets would. The Bengals won't... I don't care if the Browns or Patriots pay him that, because I don't view them as legitimate contenders.
On a side note, regarding the Bills "Window" - I have to say that it IS closing. That is, the "window" for "this house" is closing... What I mean by that is that many core players might only be with us for 2-3 more years (Diggs, Von Miller, Hyde, Poyer, Morse, possibly Tre White or Milano).
As long as Josh Allen is around and playing at a high level, the "window" will be open, but the "house" will certainly be different. Beane will need to retool the roster significantly in order for us to be competitive during the 2nd half of Josh Allen's career.
The Pats won the Super Bowl in 2002, 2004, and 2005... then in 2015, 2017, and 2019. The rosters were obviously very different in Brady's early years vs. the late ones.
The Bucs and Rams had a window that opened and closed very quickly... The Steelers, Packers, and Seahawks had success early in Big Ben / Rodgers / Russell Wilson careers, but none of those teams were able to create that same success and win a Super Bowl for a decade after that.
I am of the opinion that Beane should continue to be aggressive in trying to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years because those core players will be done by then - otherwise the window in this house will close, and future teams will have to be very different for us to have a chance.
Woodman
06-03-2023, 09:08 PM
Interesting to see the progress since Hopkins was released. At first, I thought the Bills had the best chance of landing Hopkins. That was with my (baseless) assumption that he would agree to a 1-2 year incentive-heavy deal with a Base salary of $10 million a year. However, it seems he wants something equal to or above what Beckham received, which to me doesn't make sense. If anyone pays Hopkins $15-$20 million a year, it's best the Bills stay away. I don't think the Chiefs or Ravens are going to pay that either. I doubt the Dolphins or Jets would. The Bengals won't... I don't care if the Browns or Patriots pay him that, because I don't view them as legitimate contenders.
On a side note, regarding the Bills "Window" - I have to say that it IS closing. That is, the "window" for "this house" is closing... What I mean by that is that many core players might only be with us for 2-3 more years (Diggs, Von Miller, Hyde, Poyer, Morse, possibly Tre White or Milano).
As long as Josh Allen is around and playing at a high level, the "window" will be open, but the "house" will certainly be different. Beane will need to retool the roster significantly in order for us to be competitive during the 2nd half of Josh Allen's career.
The Pats won the Super Bowl in 2002, 2004, and 2005... then in 2015, 2017, and 2019. The rosters were obviously very different in Brady's early years vs. the late ones.
The Bucs and Rams had a window that opened and closed very quickly... The Steelers, Packers, and Seahawks had success early in Big Ben / Rodgers / Russell Wilson careers, but none of those teams were able to create that same success and win a Super Bowl for a decade after that.
I am of the opinion that Beane should continue to be aggressive in trying to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years because those core players will be done by then - otherwise the window in this house will close, and future teams will have to be very different for us to have a chance.
Excellent Post!! :10:
notacon
06-04-2023, 01:41 PM
Interesting to see the progress since Hopkins was released. At first, I thought the Bills had the best chance of landing Hopkins. That was with my (baseless) assumption that he would agree to a 1-2 year incentive-heavy deal with a Base salary of $10 million a year. However, it seems he wants something equal to or above what Beckham received, which to me doesn't make sense. If anyone pays Hopkins $15-$20 million a year, it's best the Bills stay away. I don't think the Chiefs or Ravens are going to pay that either. I doubt the Dolphins or Jets would. The Bengals won't... I don't care if the Browns or Patriots pay him that, because I don't view them as legitimate contenders.
On a side note, regarding the Bills "Window" - I have to say that it IS closing. That is, the "window" for "this house" is closing... What I mean by that is that many core players might only be with us for 2-3 more years (Diggs, Von Miller, Hyde, Poyer, Morse, possibly Tre White or Milano).
As long as Josh Allen is around and playing at a high level, the "window" will be open, but the "house" will certainly be different. Beane will need to retool the roster significantly in order for us to be competitive during the 2nd half of Josh Allen's career.
The Pats won the Super Bowl in 2002, 2004, and 2005... then in 2015, 2017, and 2019. The rosters were obviously very different in Brady's early years vs. the late ones.
The Bucs and Rams had a window that opened and closed very quickly... The Steelers, Packers, and Seahawks had success early in Big Ben / Rodgers / Russell Wilson careers, but none of those teams were able to create that same success and win a Super Bowl for a decade after that.
I am of the opinion that Beane should continue to be aggressive in trying to win a Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years because those core players will be done by then - otherwise the window in this house will close, and future teams will have to be very different for us to have a chance.
Well said.
The distinction of the Bills “window closing” for “this house” rings true, although I’m not sure it’s relevant in relation to long term competitiveness.
The comparison between the Bucs and Rams, who both went ALL IN for one year of glory and sacrificed years of competitiveness, where they are both in MAJOR from the ground up rebuilds, is NOT the path most true blue Bills fans want to take.
Every season sees a new team. There is about a 25% turnover every single year. After the 13 second loss, the Bills completely revamped the D-line. Three of the four starters, Jerry Hughes, Vernon Butler and Mario Addison gone.
After the disappointing offensive showing in the Cincy debacle, the offense is going though a major overhaul. Singletary, McKenzie, Moss, Kumerow & Crowder gone.
The churn of draft choices and one-year vet contracts is the norm today. Long term contacts for core players. 2-3 years certainly many of what are considered core players, will be replaced with new core players.
I like the way Beane approaches roster building. He is aggressive when it makes sense. Cuts players loose when when that makes sense. Try and develop your draft choices and look two, three years down the road when drafting....especially in later rounds.
The fact is that most teams have only a handful of top tier players and only pay one in any given position highly (as measured by AVG/Y). The facts are undeniable.
Of the 14 positions that have multiple players on each team (excluding single player positions....LS, FB, K & P) for 32 teams (448 instances) only FOUR teams have two players within the top 10 AVG/Y salary for the same position...
Miami - CB - #3 & #6
Baltimore - CB - #4 & #10
LAC - EDGE - #2 & #5
Wash - DL - #3 & #8.
The important thing to look at with higher paid players is when the guaranteed money runs out along with dead cap money.
Von Miller is not going anywhere until after the 2024 season (2024 last year of guaranteed money of $10.7M (https://overthecap.com/player/von-miller/2)...relatively substantial cap savings after that year) . 2023 may be Diggs last season. No guaranteed money after 2023 (https://overthecap.com/player/stefon-diggs/3994), and only a $3.2M dead cap hit....the $27.8M cap hit for 2024 might be too unpalatable.
Same with Tre’ White. No guaranteed money after 2023 (https://overthecap.com/player/tredavious-white/5611), $6M cap saving if let go (or traded) before 2024 season.
But I don’t agree that "win a Super Bowl in the next 2-3 years because those core players will be done by then” as I don’t think it is dire if “ the window in this house will close” as it’s obvious for any competitive team that "future teams will have to be very different for us to have a chance.”
I’m quite confident that Beane is balancing the “let’s be aggressive to win a SB in the next 2-3 years” but also tempers that by limiting 'kicking the cap down the road' (like Rams and Bucs did not limit) and constantly plan for several years with developing new core players.
Yeah....churn and burn is the way of the NFL today. As long as you have an elite QB, the pieces around him are fungible. Different faces, but the window is wide open as long as Josh Allen is healthy.
Bill Cody
06-05-2023, 10:49 AM
I don't think the D Hop market is as robust as anyone including D Hop thought. The guy has the best hands in the league but he's also an extreme prima donna that doesn't like to practice and wants to play sandlot ball. That's the reason he's moved around and why he's still unsigned IMO.
Woodman
06-05-2023, 12:54 PM
Stephen Jones- Cowboys aren't interested in DeAndre Hopkins - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/05/stephen-jones-cowboys-arent-interested-in-deandre-hopkins/)
As the free agency of receiver DeAndre Hopkins (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/8074/deandre-hopkins) has lingered, more steam has emerged regarding the possibility of the Cowboys pursuing him.
Cowboys executive Stephen Jones has made it clear that won’t happen.
Woodman
06-05-2023, 12:56 PM
“He’s not on this team right now,” Jones said, via Clarence E. Hill, Jr. of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. “We went down the road with [Brandin] Cooks. We’re very comfortable with Cooks. We’re pleased with our receiving group (https://twitter.com/clarencehilljr/status/1665765026534178818?s=20).”
They should be. They have Cooks, CeeDee Lamb (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/58436/ceedee-lamb), and Michael Gallup (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/2110/michael-gallup). There’s no reason to add Hopkins, barring an unexpected injury of course.
Hopkins was released six days ago. There have been no visits, no reports regarding active negotiations.
It all points to the probability that Hopkins still wants more than the market will justify.
Woodman
06-05-2023, 04:06 PM
Brandon Beane on signing DeAndre Hopkins- A great talent, would never rule it out - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/05/brandon-beane-on-signing-deandre-hopkins-a-great-talent-would-never-rule-it-out/)
The Bills were frequently mentioned as a potential landing spot for wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/8074/deandre-hopkins) before he was released by the Cardinals last week and they haven’t faded out of the picture since he hit the open market.
General Manager Brandon Beane didn’t do anything to pull his team out of the mix during a Monday appearance on The Pat McAfee Show. Beane was asked his thoughts about Hopkins saying he’d like to play with quarterback Josh Allen and he suggested the team has some interest in the veteran while expressing some caution about the financial side of things.
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Bill Cody
06-05-2023, 04:33 PM
Brandon Beane on signing DeAndre Hopkins- A great talent, would never rule it out - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/05/brandon-beane-on-signing-deandre-hopkins-a-great-talent-would-never-rule-it-out/)
The Bills were frequently mentioned as a potential landing spot for wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins (https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/football/nfl/player/8074/deandre-hopkins) before he was released by the Cardinals last week and they haven’t faded out of the picture since he hit the open market.
General Manager Brandon Beane didn’t do anything to pull his team out of the mix during a Monday appearance on The Pat McAfee Show. Beane was asked his thoughts about Hopkins saying he’d like to play with quarterback Josh Allen and he suggested the team has some interest in the veteran while expressing some caution about the financial side of things.
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Translation: "yeah we'd take him but he's asking for way too much money now. If the demands fall he has our number."
Canadian'eh!
06-05-2023, 04:44 PM
Translation: "yeah we'd take him but he's asking for way too much money now. If the demands fall he has our number."
maybe that. I’d say they made their offer and now they wait and see if he gets a better one. Might not be that he said “no” to it, per se. I think a lot of times players take time getting multiple offers and then choose as opposed to rejecting things immediately and saying “no… I need 15”
Night Train
06-06-2023, 07:04 AM
" They want me to attend practice. I'm not going there.."
swiper
07-04-2023, 06:02 AM
Bills still listed as a favorite to sign DeAndre Hopkins (https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/sneaky-joe-bills-still-listed-as-a-favorite-to-sign-deandre-hopkins)
Hopkins has reportedly visited with the Patriots and Tennessee Titans to this point, two teams that seemingly can offer him more money than Super Bowl contending teams.
If Hopkins was all about the money, though, why isn't he signed by the Patriots yet? Why isn't he signed by the Titans?
It seems, to me, if Hopkins was thrilled about the idea of catching passes from Ryan Tannehill or Mac Jones, he would've signed by now.
ESPN NFL reporter Dianna Russini said back on June 23 that Hopkins is trying to get more teams interested in his services.
What this sounds like is Hopkins isn't all about the money. He really does want to play for a contender, and is just trying to squeeze every dollar out of a true contender that he can.
The original reporting on what Hopkins wanted on his next contract was along the lines of what Odell Beckham Jr. got with the Baltimore Ravens. Problem for Hopkins is, is there another contender - like Baltimore - that's desperate for a receiver?
The answer, thus far, is no.
With every day that passes, it's becoming more-and-more likely Hopkins circles back around the Buffalo Bills and Kansas City Chiefs of the world.
Bills general manager Brandon Beane told reporters after signing pass rusher Leonard Floyd that any other additions would have to play for cheap, but he did not completely close the door.
The scenario I am presenting is one where Hopkins does decide to play for cheap. He arrives at a place where he'd rather try to win a Super Bowl, making $4 million, than get yelled at by Patriots head coach Bill Belichick for $10 million.
The likelihood Hopkins makes that decision is why you see the Bills still listed as one of the betting favorites to land his services.
https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/sneaky-joe-bills-still-listed-as-a-favorite-to-sign-deandre-hopkins
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DeAndre Hopkins knows how to use his body language to make a statement about where he may wanna head next ���� <a href="https://twitter.com/ATCoveredPod?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@ATCoveredPod</a> <a href="https://t.co/wExi14e28M">pic.twitter.com/wExi14e28M</a></p>— CBS Sports (@CBSSports) <a href="https://twitter.com/CBSSports/status/1647623025263804417?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 16, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Goobylal
07-04-2023, 09:02 AM
He'd be the final piece of the puzzle. Make it happen.
notacon
07-04-2023, 12:26 PM
He'd be the final piece of the puzzle. Make it happen.
Of he could be the piece that blows up in their faces and and makes the Diggs situation become untenable and divides the locker room.
No one knows.
Hopkins could probably sign with the Bills today if winning is more important than more and more millions.
According to Spotrac (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/deandre-hopkins-12307/cash-earnings/) Hopkins has $111,577,890 in carer earning (just from his NFL career)...with who knows how many more millions with his sponsor (https://firstsportz.com/nfl-deandre-hopkins-net-worth/) deals with Burberry, OARS + ALPS (Men’s Skincare), Therabody, Biosteel, Bridgestone Tires, Super Coffee, Buzzer, Josh Elliot, Olipop, Whatnot Community Marketplace (app) and Verizon.
But no Super Bowl rings.
Which would supercharge his endorsement deals. Take a little less today for a BIG payoff later???
Hopkins could be the final piece of the puzzle....and I would be ecstatic if that happened and the Bills win a Super Bowl with hm.
But, I have no doubt that the team THIS YEAR is just as capable to win that elusive prize without him.
Goobylal
07-04-2023, 12:35 PM
Of he could be the piece that blows up in their faces and and makes the Diggs situation become untenable and divides the locker room.
No one knows.
Hopkins could probably sign with the Bills today if winning is more important than more and more millions.
According to Spotrac (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/deandre-hopkins-12307/cash-earnings/) Hopkins has $111,577,890 in carer earning (just from his NFL career)...with who knows how many more millions with his sponsor (https://firstsportz.com/nfl-deandre-hopkins-net-worth/) deals with Burberry, OARS + ALPS (Men’s Skincare), Therabody, Biosteel, Bridgestone Tires, Super Coffee, Buzzer, Josh Elliot, Olipop, Whatnot Community Marketplace (app) and Verizon.
But no Super Bowl rings.
Which would supercharge his endorsement deals. Take a little less today for a BIG payoff later???
Hopkins could be the final piece of the puzzle....and I would be ecstatic if that happened and the Bills win a Super Bowl with hm.
But, I have no doubt that the team THIS YEAR is just as capable to win that elusive prize without him.
Diggs wants to win. He's getting up there and knows his time is limited.
As for DHop, if he wanted money, he would have signed with the Cheats already.
notacon
07-04-2023, 12:48 PM
Diggs wants to win. He's getting up there and knows his time is limited.
As for DHop, if he wanted money, he would have signed with the Cheats already.
Maybe, maybe not. They could have low-balled him. All we do know is reporting that said that Hopkins is looking for the same kind of deal that OBJ got...$15M.
We’ll know when he does sign with someone.
If the Bills really wanted him, they would have signed him already.
As for Diggs, yes, he wants to win. But, by every indication, his frustration from late last year was not being targeting or relied on enough. One diva in the WR is enough to handle...two diva’s inevitably produces cat fights.
Maybe he signs with the Bills and he and Diggs are best buddies. No one knows????
Goobylal
07-04-2023, 01:50 PM
Maybe, maybe not. They could have low-balled him. All we do know is reporting that said that Hopkins is looking for the same kind of deal that OBJ got...$15M.
We’ll know when he does sign with someone.
If the Bills really wanted him, they would have signed him already.
As for Diggs, yes, he wants to win. But, by every indication, his frustration from late last year was not being targeting or relied on enough. One diva in the WR is enough to handle...two diva’s inevitably produces cat fights.
Maybe he signs with the Bills and he and Diggs are best buddies. No one knows????
There's no way they low-balled him. They have nothing else to offer him except money. They have no chance at the SB, much less winning it, so they have to do what they've had to do since Brady left and overpay for players. It's glorious to see!
And the Bills want him. They just have a cap problem and will have to restructure and move money down the road to get him at what he wants.
And one of the theories for why Diggs got pissed was that he restructured and was told they weren't using it to go after DHop. But again I think he's more worried about winning than stats at this point.
Canadian'eh!
07-04-2023, 03:39 PM
D-Hop has spent his entire career being a superstar on terrible teams. Tennessee and NE are not legit contenders. The advanced metrics people say he's declining. He has 2 choices. Take one last "best" paycheck or go for the title with a good QB.
Buffalo and KC are the only 2 that make sense for him. But apparently they don't have the $ he wants. I think the delay is him hoping a better combination of money/winning comes along. Beane already said they don't have much room to work with, so I'd be surprised if he ends up in Buffalo. That said, I'd love to see it. Even if he's lost a step, his size and catch radius is still elite and as an endzone/3rd down threat he'd be very useful
swiper
07-04-2023, 03:42 PM
D-Hop has spent his entire career being a superstar on terrible teams. Tennessee and NE are not legit contenders. The advanced metrics people say he's declining. He has 2 choices. Take one last "best" paycheck or go for the title with a good QB.
Buffalo and KC are the only 2 that make sense for him. But apparently they don't have the $ he wants. I think the delay is him hoping a better combination of money/winning comes along. Beane already said they don't have much room to work with, so I'd be surprised if he ends up in Buffalo. That said, I'd love to see it. Even if he's lost a step, his size and catch radius is still elite and as an endzone/3rd down threat he'd be very useful
Yep. From the beginning it's been him wanting his cake and to eat it too.
Canadian'eh!
07-04-2023, 04:01 PM
Yep. From the beginning it's been him wanting his cake and to eat it too.
I mean. It’s a business. If he signed for the max money we’d all ***** he doesn’t care about winning. Nothing wrong with trying to do both.
Skooby
07-04-2023, 04:49 PM
How long will this drag out ?? Training camps for all teams need to start ?? It's like he's been mentioned for just about every playoff team (except NE), the Ravens had a hot run with him.
DraftBoy
07-05-2023, 06:53 AM
How long will this drag out ?? Training camps for all teams need to start ?? It's like he's been mentioned for just about every playoff team (except NE), the Ravens had a hot run with him.
I would imagine he'll sign between camp starting and the middle of the preseason. A lot of vets don't want to deal with training camp in the heat and with his experience you're not worried about him not being able to learn the playbook or mesh with his QB. They could also be waiting to see if a big time WR goes down in camp or in the preseason which would open up an opportunity for him to get the money he may be looking for.
I think Hopkins makes sense for the Bills and bumps Davis is a better fit position as the #3 WR. He also does more of the dirty work on routes that frees up Diggs for bigger plays and allows us to bring allow Kincaid at a slower rate which is also ideal. Hopkins work ethic is reportedly top notch so he'll be a positive in the locker room as well, I would assume.
I don't know how much of a problem it would be for the Bills to find the money for the current. Hopkins wants the same 1 year $15 million deal that Beckham got in Baltimore. Per Sportrac that was a $13.8 million signing bonus spread out over 5 years, so his 2023 cap number is only $3.9 million. The issue is that Beckham's cap number for 2024 is $11.1 million due to the prorated signing bonus. The Bills currently have $5.5 million in space for this year, but are projected to be at -$25.4 million for next year so it's tough jam Beane finds himself in.
There is some cap savings you could find this year if you feel like a player like Siran Neal ($2.3 million), AJ Epenesa ($1.3 Million), and/or Boogie Basham ($725K) can't make the roster. That's potentially another $4.35M there in cap savings which could allow you to front load a potential Hopkins deal.
The current depth chart would indicate the Bills probably have enough depth that they are already looking at tough cuts at those positions. I know they like Neal on ST, but he may be too expensive for those role and he's currently only listed as the backup NB on Ourlads. Epenesa and Basham are both currently third string DE's with others behind them who are cheaper in Shane Ray, Kameron Cline, and Jonathan Kingsley.
ghz in pittsburgh
07-05-2023, 09:22 AM
Listen to Josh's interview at TEU; you get a sense it maybe a problem for Diggs. The question is popped, specifically how Diggs will react. Josh's answer is "you have to check with him (Diggs)," no follow-up buts, like but he'd welcome another weapon etc. etc.
Canadian'eh!
07-05-2023, 09:32 AM
I would imagine he'll sign between camp starting and the middle of the preseason. A lot of vets don't want to deal with training camp in the heat and with his experience you're not worried about him not being able to learn the playbook or mesh with his QB. They could also be waiting to see if a big time WR goes down in camp or in the preseason which would open up an opportunity for him to get the money he may be looking for.
I think Hopkins makes sense for the Bills and bumps Davis is a better fit position as the #3 WR. He also does more of the dirty work on routes that frees up Diggs for bigger plays and allows us to bring allow Kincaid at a slower rate which is also ideal. Hopkins work ethic is reportedly top notch so he'll be a positive in the locker room as well, I would assume.
I don't know how much of a problem it would be for the Bills to find the money for the current. Hopkins wants the same 1 year $15 million deal that Beckham got in Baltimore. Per Sportrac that was a $13.8 million signing bonus spread out over 5 years, so his 2023 cap number is only $3.9 million. The issue is that Beckham's cap number for 2024 is $11.1 million due to the prorated signing bonus. The Bills currently have $5.5 million in space for this year, but are projected to be at -$25.4 million for next year so it's tough jam Beane finds himself in.
There is some cap savings you could find this year if you feel like a player like Siran Neal ($2.3 million), AJ Epenesa ($1.3 Million), and/or Boogie Basham ($725K) can't make the roster. That's potentially another $4.35M there in cap savings which could allow you to front load a potential Hopkins deal.
The current depth chart would indicate the Bills probably have enough depth that they are already looking at tough cuts at those positions. I know they like Neal on ST, but he may be too expensive for those role and he's currently only listed as the backup NB on Ourlads. Epenesa and Basham are both currently third string DE's with others behind them who are cheaper in Shane Ray, Kameron Cline, and Jonathan Kingsley.
A veteran WR who waits to sign with their old team to skip a bunch of off-season program is one thing, but I’d really prefer a guy who is about to learn a new system get as much time as possible before the season gets too close.
I suspect it’s more the latter point of “let’s see what happens as things draw closer”
cas22
07-05-2023, 10:05 AM
I believe its best left alone, how many times do teams sign ex super stars in there down year and they go on and win SB? I'm not talking QB just positional players...
also if winning is the 1st thing on his list he would have already signed with the Bills or Chiefs... nope this guy is all about the money....
Bill Cody
07-05-2023, 01:15 PM
This guy is a lazy bum that wears out his welcome wherever he goes. We don't need him
notacon
07-05-2023, 01:17 PM
There's no way they low-balled him. They have nothing else to offer him except money. They have no chance at the SB, much less winning it, so they have to do what they've had to do since Brady left and overpay for players. It's glorious to see!
And the Bills want him. They just have a cap problem and will have to restructure and move money down the road to get him at what he wants.
And one of the theories for why Diggs got pissed was that he restructured and was told they weren't using it to go after DHop. But again I think he's more worried about winning than stats at this point.
You have NO WAY to know that. Prove it if you do.
Of course they could have “low balled” him. If they offered him $10-$12M Hopkins could have easily seen that as “low balling”.
The fact remains that if the Bills really wanted him, they would have signed him already.
I suspect that they have the same doubts as I expressed. Obviously, we’ll see eventually.
Just like we saw with OBJ.
Once again you are speculating some “theories” that come from other ignorant (as in they have no idea and are guessing) that "why Diggs got pissed was that he restructured and was told they weren't using it to go after DHop” this I suspect is not even close to being true.
I agree that Diggs is more worried about winning, but I never said that he was worried about “stats”. He is worried that he is not being used as much as he thinks he should be.
His dismally bad performance in the Cincy game continued with similar underwhelming performances in the last three Bills playoff losses....
<tbody>
Targets
Rec
Catch %
Yards
Avg
Long
TD
2022 Cincy
10
4
40.00%
35
8.8
16
0
2021 KC OT
6
3
50.00%
7
2.3
5
0
2020 KC
11
6
54.55%
77
12.8
34
0
Total
27
13
48.15%
119
9.2
34
0
</tbody>
Something is wrong. Diggs may be “more worried about winning” but he certainly does not look like what a superstar WR should look like in those three losses.
ghz in pittsburgh
07-05-2023, 05:17 PM
As of right now, Josh Allen is not proven, and Diggs is not proven, in the playoffs. We all know the intensity raised up to another level in the playoffs. It makes sense that for a guy like Diggs, who is already super intensive in regular season games (Allen said if we do good, he's hyped up trying to get other people hyped up; if we do bad, he's rallying others up), not sure he can take the game to another level himself.
Allen's job in the playoff should not look for Diggs, rather, whoever is open which is more difficult for Diggs because opponents will key on Diggs more. At the moment, it looks like Allen (4-4) is on the path of guys like Peyton Manning (14-13), Kelly (9-8), Brett Favre (12-10), in line for one super bowl win one of those years. Mahomes is at a ridiculous pace of 11-3, like Bradshaw (14-5). Some QB comparable to Allen's game: Elway is 14-8, Roethlisberger 13 -10. I still doubt even Mahomes can reach the level of the GOAT: 35-13.
Goobylal
07-05-2023, 06:36 PM
You have NO WAY to know that. Prove it if you do.
Of course they could have “low balled” him. If they offered him $10-$12M Hopkins could have easily seen that as “low balling”.
The fact remains that if the Bills really wanted him, they would have signed him already.
I suspect that they have the same doubts as I expressed. Obviously, we’ll see eventually.
Just like we saw with OBJ.
Once again you are speculating some “theories” that come from other ignorant (as in they have no idea and are guessing) that "why Diggs got pissed was that he restructured and was told they weren't using it to go after DHop” this I suspect is not even close to being true.
I agree that Diggs is more worried about winning, but I never said that he was worried about “stats”. He is worried that he is not being used as much as he thinks he should be.
His dismally bad performance in the Cincy game continued with similar underwhelming performances in the last three Bills playoff losses....
<tbody>
Targets
Rec
Catch %
Yards
Avg
Long
TD
2022 Cincy
10
4
40.00%
35
8.8
16
0
2021 KC OT
6
3
50.00%
7
2.3
5
0
2020 KC
11
6
54.55%
77
12.8
34
0
Total
27
13
48.15%
119
9.2
34
0
</tbody>
Something is wrong. Diggs may be “more worried about winning” but he certainly does not look like what a superstar WR should look like in those three losses.
I don't know what they offered. Again given their cap space and need to add as much talent around Mac Jones as they can, I seriously doubt they didn't make a substantial offer to him. At least substantially more than other teams were able to offer.
Bill Cody
07-06-2023, 02:24 PM
I don't know what they offered. Again given their cap space and need to add as much talent around Mac Jones as they can, I seriously doubt they didn't make a substantial offer to him. At least substantially more than other teams were able to offer.
No one knows. But we do know it wasn't enough to sign him. He was looking for OBJ + money. Did NE offer him that? Based on BB's track record I'd say no.
Goobylal
07-06-2023, 04:30 PM
No one knows. But we do know it wasn't enough to sign him. He was looking for OBJ + money. Did NE offer him that? Based on BB's track record I'd say no.
Probably not, but again I'm sure it was a lot more than contending teams were offering. They are no longer the place where free agents will take less to play. Thankfully.
Buffalogic
07-06-2023, 05:07 PM
You know, there is someone who is still out there and could come for a fraction of the price. A one year prove it deal for Kenny Golladay could be low risk high reward venture for the bills. Yeah, he didn't work out with the Giants, but he was a very good receiver for the lions. I think it would be a good signing.
Goobylal
07-06-2023, 05:23 PM
You know, there is someone who is still out there and could come for a fraction of the price. A one year prove it deal for Kenny Golladay could be low risk high reward venture for the bills. Yeah, he didn't work out with the Giants, but he was a very good receiver for the lions. I think it would be a good signing.
I've heard reports that he's checked-out after getting the big money deal.
Woodman
07-07-2023, 02:42 PM
I don't know what they offered. Again given their cap space and need to add as much talent around Mac Jones as they can, I seriously doubt they didn't make a substantial offer to him. At least substantially more than other teams were able to offer.
If they ever made an offer.
gr8slayer
07-08-2023, 11:47 AM
Honestly not too interested in Hopkins.
He's going to be expensive and I don't know that his production (at this point in his career) would be all that much better than what Davis brings to the table.
Unless the plan is to let Diggs go and replace him with Hopkins, I don't know that it makes that much sense... Even then, the fall off in production would be tough to swallow as Diggs is a superior player.
ParanoidAndroid
07-16-2023, 03:02 PM
Signing with the Titans. So much for ring chasing.
Dodged a bullet imo. Watch how 2024 version Hopkins does.
THE END OF ALL DAYS
07-16-2023, 03:47 PM
This renders him Harmless
YardRat
07-16-2023, 03:58 PM
Makes Tennessee a little bit better. They missed Brown last season.
cas22
07-16-2023, 04:01 PM
2 years 26 mil worth up to 32 mil with incentives.. anyone thinking he wanted to win a ring over money was crazy.... Tennessee is just about in a rebuild.
Forward_Lateral
07-16-2023, 04:26 PM
Way too much money
Woodman
07-16-2023, 07:22 PM
This renders him Harmless
100%
Woodman
07-16-2023, 07:24 PM
Way too much money
Always is.
Woodman
07-16-2023, 07:26 PM
Makes Tennessee a little bit better. They missed Brown last season.
Losing Brown killed them just wish we had that stud!
notacon
07-16-2023, 07:40 PM
Now we know. Money was more important to DHop than winning.
I guess that $15M he was looking for was not forthcoming from anyone.
Like I said (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263261-D-Hop-released?p=5031613&viewfull=1#post5031613) less than two weeks ago...."The fact remains that if the Bills really wanted him, they would have signed him already".
If winning (or seriously competing for) a SB was more important than money, he would have taken less (than the already lower price) and signed with the Bills or KC.
There were reports just days ago (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/bills-want-deandre-hopkins-at-their-price) that the Bils were still interested, but he had to get real about the price. The report citing as being “known in league circles” (that means every team knew) that the Bills “have a price in mind they won’t exceed”.
I guess DHop never got real with that price.
Hmmmmm....I wonder what that price was for the Bills??? $12M....$11M...$10M????
I’m glad he did not meet the Bills price. An aging diva, who hates to practice and has had recent injury issues the past two seasons, with a bum knee (not good for a WR).
He was supposed to be the missing piece in Arizona, turning Murray into a viable QB. How did that work out???
Now, I guess, he’s supposed to bring Tannehill back from his aging mediocrity?!?!? :rolleyes: If Tennessee was serious about winning they never would have traded AJ Brown...who now has a SB ring.
I suspect that Jax is not feeling that threatened. Sure looks like they may run away with the AFCS title. ****, Indy might surpass the roster depleted Titans if Richardson is anything better than crap.
OpIv37
07-16-2023, 08:28 PM
2 years 26 mil worth up to 32 mil with incentives.. anyone thinking he wanted to win a ring over money was crazy.... Tennessee is just about in a rebuild.
Which begs the question: how does this make sense for Ten? It’s a lot of money and it doesn’t make them a contender.
It wreaks of the Bills signing TO. It’ll make headlines and get their fans excited, but they’re still mediocre as a team.
I find it hilarious. I despise Ten as much as I despise our Div rivals because of the Music City Mirage.
notacon
07-17-2023, 11:50 AM
Which begs the question: how does this make sense for Ten? It’s a lot of money and it doesn’t make them a contender.
It wreaks of the Bills signing TO. It’ll make headlines and get their fans excited, but they’re still mediocre as a team.
I find it hilarious. I despise Ten as much as I despise our Div rivals because of the Music City Mirage.
Well....it does not make much sense.
It’s very similar to the Julio Jones trade in 2021.
Woodman
07-17-2023, 11:53 AM
This renders him Harmless
This also makes us a bit smarter than I thought.
Woodman
07-17-2023, 11:58 AM
Now, I guess, he’s supposed to bring Tannehill back from his aging mediocrity?!?!? :rolleyes: If Tennessee was serious about winning they never would have traded AJ Brown...who now has a SB ring.
Not yet.
Saratoga Slim
07-17-2023, 01:41 PM
This renders him Harmless
Exactly. If we can't afford him, feels good to see him not land with the Chiefs or someone else we're likely to see when the snow flies. Titans are unlikely to be relevant during his 2 year contract.
notacon
07-17-2023, 03:00 PM
Not yet.
Oooooops my bad. DUH!!!! Senior brain fart moment!!!
kscdogbillsfan1221
07-17-2023, 05:57 PM
Which begs the question: how does this make sense for Ten? It’s a lot of money and it doesn’t make them a contender.
It wreaks of the Bills signing TO. It’ll make headlines and get their fans excited, but they’re still mediocre as a team.
I find it hilarious. I despise Ten as much as I despise our Div rivals because of the Music City Mirage.
Sometimes you say things that are astronomically stupid
other times you say things that are completely spot on and brilliant
this is the latter
great post
couldn’t agree with you more
THE END OF ALL DAYS
07-17-2023, 06:43 PM
Sometimes you say things that are astronomically stupid
other times you say things that are completely spot on and brilliant
this is the latter
great post
couldn’t agree with you more
wait... you should be talking about me here... :)
Novacane
07-17-2023, 08:21 PM
Not in KC. A win for the Bills.
Night Train
07-17-2023, 09:12 PM
So the Pats offer of 1 Mil and an unplated Kia Soul was not enough..
Woodman
07-17-2023, 10:37 PM
So the Pats offer of 1 Mil and an unplated Kia Soul was not enough..
They went that high ........ interesting and always to form. :roflmao:
Skooby
07-18-2023, 05:50 PM
He took the bag and left the ring, good.
Bill Cody
07-19-2023, 09:13 AM
He took the bag and left the ring, good.
Hard to blame him. 8m is a big difference from what KC offered
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