Oliver extended

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

Just saw Oliver extension deal done

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

4 yrs 68m, 45m guaranteed

[Forward_Lateral]

That seems cheap. Either way I’m glad they found a way to keep him

[Woodman]

17m per just hope he earns it now.

[Woodman]

Ed Oliver, Bills agree to four-year contract extension - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/03/ed-oliver-bills-agree-to-four-year-contract-extension/)

The deal is reportedly worth $68 million with $45 million guaranteed.

The No. 9 overall pick of the 2019 draft, Oliver was set to enter the final year of his rookie contract on the fifth-year option.

Oliver, 25, Has appeared in 62 games with 53 starts for Buffalo over the last four years. He has recorded 14.5 sacks, 30 tackles for loss, and 42 quarterback hits.

Last season, Oliver had 2.5 sacks, nine tackles for loss, 14 QB hits, and three passes defensed in 13 games for the Bills.

[Woodman]

We were like 1.5 million below the cap ..... what effect will this have?

[sukie]

I think this is beyond this year. He already was on a 5th option, no?

[Night Train]

https://www.audacy.com/wgr550/sports/bills/report-bills-agree-to-4-year-extension-with-ed-oliver

[sukie]

Okay so the new deal LOWERS the cap number for 2023… interesting

[Buffalogic]

I'm on the fence with this one. Not sure I would have invested in him at this point. Maybe they are encouraged and want to get ahead of the salary should he have a great year. I don't think if I'm building a team I invest in an undersized dt with his current track record.

[sukie]

I'm on the fence with this one. Not sure I would have invested in him at this point. Maybe they are encouraged and want to get ahead of the salary should he have a great year. I don't think if I'm building a team I invest in an undersized dt with his current track record.
Lower this years cap number and trade him with a deal in place?

[YardRat]

Depends on the structure, but not something I would have necessarily hopped on.

On a slightly related note, just more evidence they didn't value Edmunds nearly as much as 'the experts' said they did.

[Forward_Lateral]

Guys. It’s 45 guaranteed. That’s 11 per. That’s half of what the franchise tender is.

[Buffalogic]

The deal is fine but it's the philosophy I'm questioning. I'd rather see them pay the market rate for a great player instead of getting a good deal on a mediocre player that really has underperformed where he was drafted. Hope he has a great year and it turns out to be a big win.

[Novacane]

Eh. They must like him better than I do.

[YardRat]

Guys. It’s 45 guaranteed. That’s 11 per. That’s half of what the franchise tender is.

His fifth-year option for this season was $10.7. The franchise tag number was not in play, but if it was it would have been $18.9.

[sukie]

The deal is fine but it's the philosophy I'm questioning. I'd rather see them pay the market rate for a great player instead of getting a good deal on a mediocre player that really has underperformed where he was drafted. Hope he has a great year and it turns out to be a big win.

When you don’t have a franchise QB and hall of fame pass rusher… you could easily get a really good player

[DraftBoy]

Makes sense to me. Beane isn’t about to give up on one of his early 1st Rounders. Also he’s underrated by the fan base.

[Lexwhat]

Interesting!! I was assuming Oliver was going to test the open market like Tremaine Edmunds, Milano, and Poyer did.

With that being said, IMO this is a VERY fair contract for both sides.

Aaron Donald is at $30+ million a year. Jeffrey Simmons is like $24 million a year... I figure Chris Jones will likely fall somewhere between those two.

Ed Oliver hasn't matched the production of any of those guys, but he is a top 15 DT in this league. I think Oliver will truly break out this year with Von Miller coming back and (hopefully) an improved Greg Rousseau. It's too bad Beane's other DLine picks (Epenesa, Basham) are looking like busts.

[Woodman]

Lower this years cap number and trade him with a deal in place?
That I could get behind!!!

:gobills:

[Woodman]

Eh. They must like him better than I do.

Hopefully they get this one right!

[All-state10]

Lower this years cap number and trade him with a deal in place?

Do some of you even think before posting

[Cali512]

Well, he should be good from the pockets down now

[Woodman]

Well, he should be good from the pockets down now

When do we get the heart?

[Saratoga Slim]

Ed Oliver hasn't matched the production of any of those guys, but he is a top 15 DT in this league. I think Oliver will truly break out this year with Von Miller coming back and (hopefully) an improved Greg Rousseau. It's too bad Beane's other DLine picks (Epenesa, Basham) are looking like busts.

Don’t forget Poona Ford to backup Daquan. IMO Ed is worth this kind of money when the offense can’t double team him. Cincy gobbled him up with Daquan out. Hopefully Poona means we always have a partner for Ed that demands double teams. He should produce.

I think the difference between $17M and $30M is that Ed can produce when put in a position to succeed whereas guys like Donald and Von produce no matter what.

[sukie]

Do some of you even think before posting

Yes why? He’s playing this year for less today than yesterday. This deal lowers the 2023 cap. Trade after the season or before. Teams wouldn’t find the new numbers too high and he wouldn’t be viewed as a rental. Bills actually could get something for him… unlike edmunds.

[Lexwhat]

Don’t forget Poona Ford to backup Daquan. IMO Ed is worth this kind of money when the offense can’t double team him. Cincy gobbled him up with Daquan out. Hopefully Poona means we always have a partner for Ed that demands double teams. He should produce.

I think the difference between $17M and $30M is that Ed can produce when put in a position to succeed whereas guys like Donald and Von produce no matter what.

You're right. Ed Oliver doesn't regularly beat the double teams like Aaron Donald can... Having Ford / DaQuan Jones next to him makes a big difference.

I have high hopes for P.Ford - he signed for next to nothing (basically Vet minimum), and the value is fantastic. This year's top-4 DT rotation of Ford, Oliver, D.Jones, and Jordan Phillips is very good... The issue is (for now) - is only Ed Oliver is signed beyond 2023.

[Oaf]

We lose out on "Oliver in a contract year" performance since his contract is mostly guaranteed now.



We lose out on "At least we get a comp pick when he signs big elsewhere."



We lose out on "Let's start over with another talented player more in line with the physical norms and on a rookie contract" while we look ahead to another cap strapped year in 2024.




How does this signing / timing make sense?

[All-state10]

Yes why? He’s playing this year for less today than yesterday. This deal lowers the 2023 cap. Trade after the season or before. Teams wouldn’t find the new numbers too high and he wouldn’t be viewed as a rental. Bills actually could get something for him… unlike edmunds.

Dear god. Have you ever seen a team sign someone to exstension then trade them right after? Just stop.

[Lexwhat]

We lose out on "Oliver in a contract year" performance since his contract is mostly guaranteed now.
We lose out on "At least we get a comp pick when he signs big elsewhere."

We lose out on "Let's start over with another talented player more in line with the physical norms and on a rookie contract" while we look ahead to another cap strapped year in 2024.

How does this signing / timing make sense?



Ed Oliver is only going to get more expensive as time goes on. The Bills believe in his ability, and I don't blame them. The results will speak for themselves.

They got him for $17 million a year, which is well below the top tier price of premier DTs in this league. I think if Oliver hit the open market, he would have been paid a lot more by another team in free agency. Good DTs are very hard to find.

Comp pick? Aside from Oliver, we have no starting DTs signed beyond the 2023 season (Ford, Jordan Phillips, and DaQuan Jones are all FAs after this year). I don't expect a rookie DT or a bargain FA to step in and match Oliver's production. When Oliver is on his game, he's a huge asset. He just needs to be more consistent. I expect a breakout year for Oliver this year, even though he wasn't a slouch the last 2 years.

[swiper]

Ed Oliver is only going to get more expensive as time goes on. The Bills believe in his ability, and I don't blame them. The results will speak for themselves.

Please just stop. They do. 2.5 sacks last season. Beane just upped for $17 million a year for 2.5 sacks a season. THAT looks stupid.

And don't hand me he was injured. If he was injured in 2023, he'll probably be injured in 2024.

And what does Beane say to Jones when he puts in 5 or 6 sacks? "I doubled Oliver in production, I want twice his money." What, exactly makes Ed Oliver so special? Answer: nothing. He's a failed draft pick. The ONLY thing that got him this deal was that he was one of Beane's picks. A failed one at that. Ed Oliver has been impressive all of about 1/2 dozen plays in his entire career. The rest is forgettable.

He's merely a hair better than that dreadlocked MLB they jettisoned.

[YardRat]

Yes why? He’s playing this year for less today than yesterday. This deal lowers the 2023 cap. Trade after the season or before. Teams wouldn’t find the new numbers too high and he wouldn’t be viewed as a rental. Bills actually could get something for him… unlike edmunds.

Depends on how the bonuses are structured, but any upfront signing bonus would all drop from being pro-rated and moved up into this year's cap for Buffalo which most likely is impossible.

[swiper]

Oliver, 25, Has appeared in 62 games with 53 starts for Buffalo over the last four years. He has recorded 14.5 sacks, 30 tackles for loss, and 42 quarterback hits.

Last season, Oliver had 2.5 sacks, nine tackles for loss, 14 QB hits, and three passes defensed in 13 games for the Bills.


LOL @ $68 million for that (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/03/ed-oliver-bills-agree-to-four-year-contract-extension/).


Bruce Smith and Kyle Williams are cringing somewhere.

[sukie]

Bruce smith and Kyle Williams played more downs per season.

[daryls61]

15th highest paid DT is fine I guess. Not a lot of splash plays though. I am surprised he signed for that little.

[notacon]

Depends on the structure, but not something I would have necessarily hopped on.

On a slightly related note, just more evidence they didn't value Edmunds nearly as much as 'the experts' said they did.

I was sure I was going to see this kind of crap when I opened this thread. A dedicated Edmunds Hater did not disappoint.

Your premise is the usual Edmunds Hating baloney.

I’ve addressed this knuckle headed little variation of Edmunds Derangement Syndrome form the usual suspects....dedicated Edmunds Haters....like YOU.

The uneducated assumption is that the Bills did not even try to extend Edmunds before his fifth year option. No one here knows for sure exactly what happen, but it is much more likely that EDMUNDS rebuffed any talk of extension.

The FACT is that it takes agreement from both sides, Bills and the player, to make any deal. The Bills have said time and time and time aging that they valued Edmunds in a big way and wanted him to return. To opine opposite is just plain false.

A smart agent would have told him to sit tight, keep his mouth shut, and wait until he could hit the open market to cash in....which he did BIG TIME. Besides the fact that EDMUNDS may not have wanted to stay in Buffalo considering the unending insufferable **** thrown his way by too many “fans”....like we see here.

Yeah....players know what fans (and other players and the sports media) are saying about them. The “experts” in sports media were all saying the same thing...that Edmunds was going to find a very lucrative market for his services...which he did.

He got that huge contract that made him the highest paid off-ball LB in NFL history. Which means the ‘experts’ were SPOT ON in the value of Edmunds in the NFL market. Your premise is silly and rather dumb as we always get from Edmunds Haters.

As anyone who knows anything about NFL football should know (not just the “experts”) the value for IDL is higher than for off-ball LB’s. Just like the value for tackles is higher than guards. Or QB’s (#1 highest AVG/Y) as compared to WR’s (#2 highest AVG/Y)


The facts are plain as day. Here are the top 10 IDL’s and LB’s (all LB’s not just off-ball LB’s).


<tbody>
Rank
Player
Team
AVG/Y



IDL




1
Aaron Donald (https://overthecap.com/player/aaron-donald/2952/)
Rams (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/los-angeles-rams/)
$31,666,667


2
Jeffery Simmons (https://overthecap.com/player/jeffery-simmons/7810/)
Titans (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/tennessee-titans/)
$23,500,000


3
Daron Payne (https://overthecap.com/player/daron-payne/6898/)
Commanders (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-commanders/)
$22,500,000


4
Dexter Lawrence (https://overthecap.com/player/dexter-lawrence/7808/)
Giants (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-giants/)
$22,500,000


5
Leonard Williams (https://overthecap.com/player/leonard-williams/3854/)
Giants (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-giants/)
$21,000,000


6
Javon Hargrave (https://overthecap.com/player/javon-hargrave/4802/)
49ers (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/san-francisco-49ers/)
$21,000,000


7
DeForest Buckner (https://overthecap.com/player/deforest-buckner/4720/)
Colts (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/indianapolis-colts/)
$21,000,000


8
Chris Jones (https://overthecap.com/player/chris-jones/4750/)
Chiefs (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/kansas-city-chiefs/)
$20,000,000


9
Jonathan Allen (https://overthecap.com/player/jonathan-allen/5601/)
Commanders (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-commanders/)
$18,000,000


10
Vita Vea (https://overthecap.com/player/vita-vea/6897/)
Buccaneers (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/tampa-bay-buccaneers/)
$17,750,000










Average
$21,891,667









LB




1
Roquan Smith (https://overthecap.com/player/roquan-smith/6893/)
Ravens (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/baltimore-ravens/)
$20,000,000


2
Shaquille Leonard (https://overthecap.com/player/shaquille-leonard/6921/)
Colts (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/indianapolis-colts/)
$19,700,000


3
Fred Warner (https://overthecap.com/player/fred-warner/6955/)
49ers (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/san-francisco-49ers/)
$19,045,000


4
Tremaine Edmunds (https://overthecap.com/player/tremaine-edmunds/6901/)
Bears (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/chicago-bears/)
$18,000,000


5
C.J. Mosley (https://overthecap.com/player/c-j-mosley/2956/)
Jets (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-jets/)
$17,000,000


6
Foyesade Oluokun (https://overthecap.com/player/foyesade-oluokun/7085/)
Jaguars (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/jacksonville-jaguars/)
$15,000,000


7
Matt Milano (https://overthecap.com/player/matt-milano/5749/)
Bills (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/buffalo-bills/)
$14,165,000


8
Jerome Baker (https://overthecap.com/player/jerome-baker/6958/)
Dolphins (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/miami-dolphins/)
$12,500,000


9
Bobby Okereke (https://overthecap.com/player/bobby-okereke/7880/)
Giants (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/new-york-giants/)
$10,000,000


10
De'Vondre Campbell (https://overthecap.com/player/devondre-campbell/4828/)
Packers (https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/green-bay-packers/)
$10,000,000










Average
$15,541,000

</tbody>

The fact is that the top paid LB does not even crack the top 7 of IDL. The average oil the AVG/Y of the top 10 for IDL is FORTY PERCENT higher than LB’s.


Ed Oliver’s extension, coupled with his fifth year option, has his five year AVG/Y of $15.75M....ranked #16 for IDL. Right where it should be.


So, your snarky Edmunds hating bullcrap is just that....bullcrap.

[notacon]

This is a very smart extension by the Bills. A fair price for Oliver’s performance and the expectation of his future growth....he has an untapped ceiling.

Too many so-called “fans” here, who are quick to throw quality players away like used tissues, have been shown once again that they know a lot less about football than they think they do. Especially when it comes to what the Bills do and should value.

So many were saying that Oliver should be traded (even here after it is obvious that the Bills want him long term....we have one poster (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263306-Oliver-extended?p=5027077&viewfull=1#post5027077) saying it’s time to trade him :rolleyes:) or not even considered for an extension.

Another poster (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php/263041-When-will-DeAndre-Hopkins-be-traded?p=5018652&viewfull=1#post5018652) actually proposed trading Oliver to Arizona for Hopkins?!?!? Uhhhhhh....that would have been one the dumbest things to do, especially in hindsight when he was released outright shortly after that absurd prediction.

I actually stared listening some of the crap thrown Oliver’s way. I knew better but was trying to have an open mind....maybe this time the majority opinion here was more realistic???

Man was I a sucker.

I should know by now to take the majority opinion here (especially when ****ting on players) with a grain of salt. Arm chair coaches and GM’s that don’t have any credible instinct or as much football knowledge than they think they do, certainly much less than enough to credibly second guess anyone, much less the Bills organization.

This was my instinct back in January about a week after the disappointing end to the season....responding to the kind of knuckle-headed majority opinion ****ting on Oliver....






I just dont see how the Bills can justify extending Oliver based on his inconsistent play and the Bills salary cap situation. I would trade him now and get a 2nd and a 5th round pick for him. Draft his replacement. Use the money on Edmunds if enough cap space after restructuring.

If some Buffalo Bills fans don’t think there is a justification to extend Oliver, what makes you think that they would be able to get a 2nd and 5th round pick for him??? Or is it the case that he IS worth a 2nd & 5th round pick....and it would not make much sense to trade him.

For the record, I lean YES on extending him. He certainly performed at very high level when Von Miller was playing and had many exceptional games, virtually unstoppable. And it’s a decision that does not have to be made this off season and the $10M 5th year option number is more than reasonable.

What we do know is that when the decision to pick up his 5th year option came around, it was seen as a no-brainer almost everywhere.


This was the observation from Joe B. in his last All-22 analysis (https://theathletic.com/4131664/2023/01/27/bills-2022-grades-offseason/), and it rings very accurate....



DT Ed Oliver

In a game in which the Bills needed a huge performance from fourth-year defensive tackle Ed Oliver (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/ed-oliver-wS7InKrtkHpNB7Lw/), he had one of the worst games of his career. Bengals quarterback Joe Burrow (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/joe-burrow-MHPQIoyRCSO0fiiE/) is one of the best at getting the ball out quickly, so instant pressure would have been the best route to slowing down their passing game. Defensive tackle is the quickest path to the quarterback in the pocket, which is why he was so important to the game plan. Oliver also worked against a trio of interior offensive linemen, including a rookie and a backup, but failed to make noise from his pivotal three-technique defensive tackle position. He provided little as a pass rusher and got pushed around on rushing attempts out of shotgun. Oliver will be in his fifth-year option in 2023, so what should we make of his disappointing performance?

It was no doubt one of the most significant contributions to the Bills’ defeat Sunday, but it likely wasn’t a sign of things to come for Oliver. He has been one of the most consistent weekly performers throughout his career, and in the two months leading up to the Bengals game, Oliver was on the short list of the best players on the roster. The surrounding talent at defensive tackle against the Bengals was well below the norm, which is notable to Oliver’s performance. DaQuan Jones (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/daquan-jones-70J5MNRzqKg5ixnt/) was injured, a torn rotator cuff severely restricted Jordan Phillips (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/jordan-phillips-c8SuUOg5YQcWICH7/), and Oliver spent most of his snaps next to the underwhelming Tim Settle (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/tim-settle-zMYnriWVJvQxaX1g/). Oliver received a lot of attention from the Bengals because of it. Part of the trouble with the Oliver debate is a lot of the positive things he does goes unnoticed, and he isn’t the flashy three-technique some were expecting. The discussion is similar to the one that followed linebacker Tremaine Edmunds (https://theathletic.com/nfl/player/tremaine-edmunds-JKo3MELPaAeeJbLo/) for years. Those flash plays are likely the “more meat on the bone” general manager Brandon Beane referred to Tuesday. But Oliver still makes impact plays almost every week and should remain a core starter.



A LOT of players had really a really bad game last week for the Bills. That does not mean it’s time to move on from them.


THANK GOD Brandon Beane does not listen to most of the arm-chair GM’s here.

[Mr. Pink]

THANK GOD Brandon Beane does not listen to most of the arm-chair GM’s here.

You're so right!

He does such a great job at drafting, other than Allen he's been completely atrocious.

He does such a good job at finding veteran talent to fill out the roster, we have an awful o-line that's a turnstile half the time leading to our best player taking unnecessary hits.

He does such a good job making trades, we brought in Hines who outside of kick returns didn't even see the field.

Oliver isn't a bad player but he's not a difference maker. He's just another replaceable guy who we paid like he's a top DT in the game.

Donahoe was an expert too. Brandon was an expert. Just because they have the title, doesn't mean they're any better than "arm-chair GMs" or your hero that you go to constantly to give you your opinion, Joe B.

[notacon]

You're so right!

He does such a great job at drafting, other than Allen he's been completely atrocious.

He does such a good job at finding veteran talent to fill out the roster, we have an awful o-line that's a turnstile half the time leading to our best player taking unnecessary hits.

He does such a good job making trades, we brought in Hines who outside of kick returns didn't even see the field.

Oliver isn't a bad player but he's not a difference maker. He's just another replaceable guy who we paid like he's a top DT in the game.

Donahoe was an expert too. Brandon was an expert. Just because they have the title, doesn't mean they're any better than "arm-chair GMs" or your hero that you go to constantly to give you your opinion, Joe B.

What baloney.

From one of the king of Edmunds Haters, the same negative **** is expected out of you most of the time about almost everything about the team. Your opinions are the epitome of one who knows a lot less about football than he thinks he does.

I’ve learned to not listen to hardly anything your write.

[YardRat]

Numbers don't really matter in a case like this.

White---extended.
Allen---extended.
Edmunds---not extended.
Oliver...extended.
Diggs**...extended.
Rousseau 2 yrs, Elam 1 year, Kincaid rookie....TBD and too early.

Every single one of the players McD/Beane have used a first round asset on has been extended at least one year (roughly) before their contract expires.

Except one.

They've given very good extensions to other draft picks (Milano, Knox, TJohnson, Bass) and free agents (Hyde, Poyer).

Rhetoric and smoke-up-your-ass coachspeak aside the team's perception is obvious.

[Mace]

I've scaled back into "prove how it all succeeds" mode. Not just Oliver...the whole process we've committed to and the way we've done it. Program should be in its' peak after this many years or it's a crapshoot if it can still work better.

Whatever...we'll see.

[THE END OF ALL DAYS]

I'm glad I started this thread so you guys can work through your visceral hatred for one another.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm glad I started this thread so you guys can work through your visceral hatred for one another.

LOL

10/10

[swiper]

What baloney.

From one of the king of Edmunds Haters, the same negative **** is expected out of you most of the time about almost everything about the team. Your opinions are the epitome of one who knows a lot less about football than he thinks he does.

I’ve learned to not listen to hardly anything your write.

That's great, because nobody listens to the stupid ***** that you post. It's ALWAYS wrong. You don't know the first thing about football. Go away.

[OpIv37]

Well, this basically kills any chance of signing Hopkins. Whether we should or shouldn’t is no longer a relevant topic, because we can’t fit him under the cap.

This is yet another sign that Beane and McD are all in with what they’ve built. Maybe they’re confident that they have something, maybe they’re being stubborn and stupid, maybe they just already played their hand in terms of the cap, so it is what it is. Doesn’t matter- the real world outcome is the same regardless of the reason.

In 2020, the Bills overachieved a bit, mainly because of Allen. In 2021 and 2022, we had a chance but it didn’t come through. IMO the biggest reason is because this is a very good team, but it’s not an elite team. We hit a wall every time we have to face the elite.

And that’s why this move concerns me. If Oliver improves even a little- and that’s a big “if”- it could turn out to be a great deal. Even at his current level, it’s not a bad deal. But, with the cap implications, it means we’re all in. Either this team will get the Lombardi, or they won’t and we are starting over in a few years. And we already saw the results the last few years.

I just don’t see this team getting it done.

[YardRat]

Well, this basically kills any chance of signing Hopkins. Whether we should or shouldn’t is no longer a relevant topic, because we can’t fit him under the cap.

This is yet another sign that Beane and McD are all in with what they’ve built. Maybe they’re confident that they have something, maybe they’re being stubborn and stupid, maybe they just already played their hand in terms of the cap, so it is what it is. Doesn’t matter- the real world outcome is the same regardless of the reason.

In 2020, the Bills overachieved a bit, mainly because of Allen. In 2021 and 2022, we had a chance but it didn’t come through. IMO the biggest reason is because this is a very good team, but it’s not an elite team. We hit a wall every time we have to face the elite.

And that’s why this move concerns me. If Oliver improves even a little- and that’s a big “if”- it could turn out to be a great deal. Even at his current level, it’s not a bad deal. But, with the cap implications, it means we’re all in. Either this team will get the Lombardi, or they won’t and we are starting over in a few years. And we already saw the results the last few years.

I just don’t see this team getting it done.

I'm not advocating signing Hopkins, but the extension freed up cap space so they have more room to do it now than they did last week. Also, there are still some re-structures they left on the table they can do if they want even more available cap.

[Forward_Lateral]

I'm not advocating signing Hopkins, but the extension freed up cap space so they have more room to do it now than they did last week. Also, there are still some re-structures they left on the table they can do if they want even more available cap.
I don't know why people refuse to read or do any research before posting garbage like "they can't afford Hopkins now".

[Forward_Lateral]

Please just stop. They do. 2.5 sacks last season. Beane just upped for $17 million a year for 2.5 sacks a season. THAT looks stupid.

And don't hand me he was injured. If he was injured in 2023, he'll probably be injured in 2024.

And what does Beane say to Jones when he puts in 5 or 6 sacks? "I doubled Oliver in production, I want twice his money." What, exactly makes Ed Oliver so special? Answer: nothing. He's a failed draft pick. The ONLY thing that got him this deal was that he was one of Beane's picks. A failed one at that. Ed Oliver has been impressive all of about 1/2 dozen plays in his entire career. The rest is forgettable.

He's merely a hair better than that dreadlocked MLB they jettisoned.
When did we start measuring defensive tackles success and ability by their sack numbers? If that was the case Phillips should've been re-signed to $30 million per a few years ago.

Not sure why you are so bent out of shape about this. The extension is relatively reasonable for a starting DT who's entering his prime. Is the the best DT in the league? Of course not, he's nowhere near Aaron Donald type, but he's also being paid 1/3rd of what Donald is.

[jamze132]

Beane is gambling on Oliver breaking out before playing the final year of his rookie deal. The downside is Oliver now has his money and he may not have that fire that a lot of guys do in walk-years. The upside is they got Oliver much cheaper than we would have if he plays outstanding. Time will tell. But I’m glad they resigned Oliver instead of Edmunds.

[Woodman]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/EGlo9LzmOME" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[OpIv37]

I'm not advocating signing Hopkins, but the extension freed up cap space so they have more room to do it now than they did last week. Also, there are still some re-structures they left on the table they can do if they want even more available cap.

Well I stand corrected on the cap for this year.

However, moving forward, it’s going to cost cap in the out years. So, the problem remains the same. What are we doing to close the gap between us and the Bengals and Chiefs? We really aren’t, and in the meantime, teams like Miami are closing the gap between them and us.

[Night Train]

I'm glad I started this thread so you guys can work through your visceral hatred for one another.

:rofl:

It's a daily death march to the gallows for many. But on the way, some parting shots. :up:

[Lexwhat]

Please just stop. They do. 2.5 sacks last season. Beane just upped for $17 million a year for 2.5 sacks a season. THAT looks stupid.

And don't hand me he was injured. If he was injured in 2023, he'll probably be injured in 2024.
And what does Beane say to Jones when he puts in 5 or 6 sacks? "I doubled Oliver in production, I want twice his money." What, exactly makes Ed Oliver so special? Answer: nothing. He's a failed draft pick. The ONLY thing that got him this deal was that he was one of Beane's picks. A failed one at that. Ed Oliver has been impressive all of about 1/2 dozen plays in his entire career. The rest is forgettable.
He's merely a hair better than that dreadlocked MLB they jettisoned.

If you don't like the extension, that is your opinion. Only time will tell whether the Extension pays off or not.

However, using sacks as your criteria for Oliver's value is superficial... No one is comparing Oliver to Aaron Donald, and Oliver isn't being paid like him either. It's also not like Jeffrey Simmons gets 15 sacks a year, but he is being paid almost $25 million a year.

Does Matt Milano get sacks like TJ Watt or Micah Parsons?? No. But no one can argue the value of Milano and what he brings to the table.

If you recall, Milano improved significantly after he signed his extension. There were people who thought he was overpaid when he re-signed with us, but in retrospect, it was an excellent signing by Beane.

I suspect Beane thinks the same of Oliver, and I also anticipate Oliver getting better in all aspects of his game.

[Lexwhat]

When did we start measuring defensive tackles success and ability by their sack numbers? If that was the case Phillips should've been re-signed to $30 million per a few years ago.

Not sure why you are so bent out of shape about this. The extension is relatively reasonable for a starting DT who's entering his prime. Is the the best DT in the league? Of course not, he's nowhere near Aaron Donald type, but he's also being paid 1/3rd of what Donald is.

Exactly.

[The last buffalo fan]

When did we start measuring defensive tackles success and ability by their sack numbers? If that was the case Phillips should've been re-signed to $30 million per a few years ago.

Not sure why you are so bent out of shape about this. The extension is relatively reasonable for a starting DT who's entering his prime. Is the the best DT in the league? Of course not, he's nowhere near Aaron Donald type, but he's also being paid 1/3rd of what Donald is.

:bf1: :10:

[justasportsfan]

When did we start measuring defensive tackles success and ability by their sack numbers?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/_YUPsixuuIo" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Saratoga Slim]

Well I stand corrected on the cap for this year.
However, moving forward, it’s going to cost cap in the out years. So, the problem remains the same. What are we doing to close the gap between us and the Bengals and Chiefs? We really aren’t, and in the meantime, teams like Miami are closing the gap between them and us.

Looks like part of why we extended Ed was to close the gap this year by signing Leonard Floyd.

Note that the Fins traded a 1st rounder for Bradley Chubb and are paying him $110M over four years. He had the same number of sacks last season as Floyd.

[Bill Cody]

It's a fair contract. Starting DT's aren't growing on trees. With Ed you're still hoping there's more there but it's not like he's a bum. And this contract isn't paying him like a star.

[notacon]

Numbers don't really matter in a case like this.

White---extended.
Allen---extended.
Edmunds---not extended.
Oliver...extended.
Diggs**...extended.
Rousseau 2 yrs, Elam 1 year, Kincaid rookie....TBD and too early.

Every single one of the players McD/Beane have used a first round asset on has been extended at least one year (roughly) before their contract expires.

Except one.

They've given very good extensions to other draft picks (Milano, Knox, TJohnson, Bass) and free agents (Hyde, Poyer).

Rhetoric and smoke-up-your-ass coachspeak aside the team's perception is obvious.

Nice try, but just more bullcrap.

Of COURSE the “numbers matter”, HUGELY, and especially what positions the Bills have decided to invest money in once their elite QB’s huge salary takes an ever increasing percentage of the cap.

In reality, your list confirms what is obviously true (to anyone who puts a little thought and football knowledge to use) and validates my opinion 100%.

This is all about investing in the premium positions. In today’s NFL, off-ball LB’ss are not nearly as highly valued as they were just a decade ago. Same with RB’s.

Look at your list on who was extended....

White - CB is a premium position
Allen - QB is ultra premium position (duh!!!)
Ed Oliver - DT is a premium position
Diggs - WR is a premium position

Rousseau - EDGE a premium position
Elam - CB a premium position

Off-Ball LB??? Not a premium position. That’s not me saying that...the NFL MARKET has said that LOUDLY and CLEARLY!!!! Money talks and bullcrap walks.

Top two paid (in AVG/Y) for each position....


<tbody>
Rank
Pos/Player
AVG/Y







1
QB




Jackson
$52,000,000



Hurts
$51,000,000







2
WR




Hill
$30,000,000



Adam
$28,000,000







3
IDL




Donald
$31,666,667



Simmons
$23,500,000







4
EDGE




Watt
$28,002,750



Bosa
$27,000,000







5
LT




Tunsil
$25,000,000



Williams
$23,010,000







6
CB




Alexander
$21,000,000



Ward
$20,100,000







7
RG




Lindstrom
$20,500,000



Schereff
$16,500,000







8
RT




Johnson
$20,187,500



Taylor
$20,000,000







9
LB




Smith
$20,000,000



Leonard
$19,700,000







10
LG




Nelson
$20,000,000



Jenkins
$17,000,000







11
S




James
$19,000,000



Fitzpatrick
$18,247,000







12
TE




Waller
$17,000,000



Kittle
$15,000,000







13
RB




McCaffrey
$16,015,853



Kamara
$15,000,000







14
C




Kelce
$14,250,000



Ragnow
$13,500,000







15
K




Tucker
$6,000,000



Gay
$5,625,000







16
FB




Juszczyk
$5,400,000



Ricard
$3,750,000







17
P




Dickson
$3,674,765



Fox
$3,491,250







18
LS




Cardona
$1,575,000



Hennessy
$1,492,500

</tbody>

And the Bills top six players and their positions….


<tbody>
Rank
Pos/Player
AVG/Y


1
QB




Allen
$ 43,000,000







2
WR




Diggs
$ 24,000,000







3
EDGE




Miller
$ 20,000,000







4
CB




White
$ 17,250,000







5
IDL




Oliver
$ 15,750,000







6
LT




Dawkins
$ 14,575,000

</tbody>


Yep. The facts are undeniable. The Bills are smartly prioritizing premium positions and follow the NFL market almost to a T.

LB is NOT a “premium position” in the NFL anymore. Not even close. The NFL market has spoken.

The Bills would have been irresponsible to devote so much money to one player in a non-premium position, and even worse to pay TWO LB’s within the top 10 within that positions which I have intelligently and accurately pointed out many times.

The Edmunds Haters just don’t want to hear the facts or use a shred of logic or football acumen (which they have a LOT less of than they think they do.

Of course, after I wrote my astute, reasonable, logical and accurate opinion, it’s being echoed in today’s SI by Albert Breer….

Why Ed Oliver Is One of the Bills’ Six Highest-Paid Players (https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/06/05/bills-salary-cap-crunch-ed-oliver-defensive-tackle)

Like a lot of teams, the Bills have prioritized premium positions as they’ve adjusted to the bulge atop their salary cap.



The Bills’ four-year, $68 million deal with DT Ed Oliver provides all of us with a great lesson on positional value in today’s NFL. The contract itself isn’t dissimilar from the one that Oliver’s fellow former Buffalo first-rounder Tremaine Edmunds just did in Chicago (he signed for $72 million over four years) and that, on Saturday, raised obvious questions, since Edmunds has been the splashier, more visible player over the past few years.

The answer is sitting on the Bills’ cap table. Their six highest-paid players, in order and by APY, are as follows: a quarterback, a receiver, an edge rusher, a corner, (now) a pass-rushing 3-technique defensive tackle and a left tackle. After that, you get an off-ball linebacker, in Matt Milano, who came in at a more affordable price than Edmunds; a tight end; a safety; and a center.

The bottom line in all of it is that this is how teams that have tough choices to make do it now.

Four of the six aforementioned millionaires were drafted and developed in Buffalo; another was traded for and extended; another was a big-ticket free-agent signing. As those players’ financial numbers have grown or have been added to the books, cap space has gotten tighter and decisions have had to be made. And like a lot of teams have, the Bills have prioritized premium positions as they’ve adjusted to the bulge atop their cap.


So how did Oliver wind up making the cut despite having just 14.5 career sacks and never more than five in a season? This is how …


• When the Bills looked at the advanced statistics, they found their defense, and specifically their pass rush, was significantly more effective with Oliver on the field than it was without him. Part of Oliver’s lack of sack production is because he isn’t tall and long, so it’s hard for him to finish on the quarterback—but he’s moving the passer off his spot, and in doing so helping others get him on the ground.

• Buffalo thought Oliver was on the verge of having a breakthrough year after the camp he had last summer. But he suffered a high-ankle sprain in the first half of the kickoff game against the Rams and really wasn’t the same the rest of the year, even though he was back in the lineup for Week 5. He’s told people he didn’t feel like himself again until March.

• The contract itself is more reasonable than you think. He’s making $17 million per year, which puts him 13th among defensive tackles. He’ll probably be 15th by the time the season starts, with two other 3-techniques (the Jets’ Quinnen Williams and the Dolphins’ Christian Wilkins) likely to get blockbuster extensions soon.



More….


Sorry, but every time your Edmunds Hating rears its ugly head with illogic and lack of any thought beyond the superficial, my premise rings true and accurate….that so many posters here know a LOT less about football than they think they do.


All in the service to promote knuckle-headed Edmunds Hatred...just like I predicted.


And that goes for the multiple sheep that mindlessly thank your obtuse post.

[notacon]

That's great, because nobody listens to the stupid ***** that you post. It's ALWAYS wrong. You don't know the first thing about football. Go away.

I know you don’t (it’s a LIE that “nobody” listens to what I write) How silly. That’s your failing and why your opinions are so bad most of the time.

You just can't handle the fact that I am hardly ever wrong. It eats your insides like a cancer.

That’s YOUR problems, not mine.

Time and time and time again, it’s proven that posters like you know a LOT less about football than you think you do. It’s wise to not listen to anything your write....and I do that quite easily.

[notacon]

Well, this basically kills any chance of signing Hopkins. Whether we should or shouldn’t is no longer a relevant topic, because we can’t fit him under the cap.

This is yet another sign that Beane and McD are all in with what they’ve built. Maybe they’re confident that they have something, maybe they’re being stubborn and stupid, maybe they just already played their hand in terms of the cap, so it is what it is. Doesn’t matter- the real world outcome is the same regardless of the reason.

In 2020, the Bills overachieved a bit, mainly because of Allen. In 2021 and 2022, we had a chance but it didn’t come through. IMO the biggest reason is because this is a very good team, but it’s not an elite team. We hit a wall every time we have to face the elite.

And that’s why this move concerns me. If Oliver improves even a little- and that’s a big “if”- it could turn out to be a great deal. Even at his current level, it’s not a bad deal. But, with the cap implications, it means we’re all in. Either this team will get the Lombardi, or they won’t and we are starting over in a few years. And we already saw the results the last few years.

I just don’t see this team getting it done.

THANKFULLY!!!!! The more I think about it, the more I think signing Hopkins would be a boneheaded move.


With more contending team coming out and saying they are not interested in Hopkins (https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/teams-arent-interested-arizona-cardinals-deandre-hopkins)....Dallas is the latest (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/05/stephen-jones-cowboys-arent-interested-in-deandre-hopkins/)....it’s becoming quite obvious that he’s just not worth what he wants.

Today it’s quite clear why the Bills decided to extend Oliver right now, probably reducing his cap number for 2023 by around half.

Signing EDGE Leonard Floyd. A proven rusher that has a ton of experience. It relieves so much pressure on Von Miller coming back too soon, and provides another quality rusher to rotate throughout the season.

We already know that whatever the Bills do, you "don’t see this team getting it done.”


So many so-called Bills “fans” who sound, act and and think like our opposition fans from Miami, NE and NYC. :rolleyes:

[swiper]

I know you don’t (it’s a LIE that “nobody” listens to what I write) How silly. That’s your failing and why your opinions are so bad most of the time.

You just can't handle the fact that I am hardly ever wrong. It eats your insides like a cancer.

That’s YOUR problems, not mine.

Time and time and time again, it’s proven that posters like you know a LOT less about football than you think you do. It’s wise to not listen to anything your write....and I do that quite easily.

You are ALWAYS wrong. And so, have become the village jester (https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--jB57eSHb--/t_Preview/b_rgb:0f7b47,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1513224809/production/designs/2176272_1.jpg)of this board. No one ever takes your garbage seriously. Just go crawl back under your rock. LOL @ you.

[sukie]

This thread needs an appeal to authority.

(thinking to self… what does Joe B think of this move?)

[Lexwhat]

Well I stand corrected on the cap for this year.
However, moving forward, it’s going to cost cap in the out years. So, the problem remains the same. What are we doing to close the gap between us and the Bengals and Chiefs? We really aren’t, and in the meantime, teams like Miami are closing the gap between them and us.

I don't really know where you are going with this. In years past, you would point out specific things that you had issue with. I don't really see you making any suggestions now other than making a blanket statement that "we aren't closing the gap." I disagree. We are definitely closing the gap.

IMO, this is the best off-season the Bills have had in a long time. Compared to last season, we:
- Got Hyde and Poyer back together.
- Are getting a healthy Tre White back.
- Are getting Von Miller back. (I unfortunately don't know if he will be back to 100% though, so it wouldn't surprise me if his production dips).
- Signed Leonard Floyd and Poona Ford.
- Lost Leslie Frazier. I wanted Frazier gone, and it is my opinion he was basically fired, with a story "spun" to say he's taking a year off because they didn't want to publicly humiliate him.
- Made significant improvements on the O-Line. IMO, this was the biggest weakness last year.
- Improving the OLine will allow Dawson Knox to be more of a tight end than a 6th Offensive lineman.
- Made significant improvements to the RB room.
- Drafted Kincaid. I am a huge fan of this pick and think he's going to be great. I don't know if it will happen this year, or if he will need time to mature. He is a rookie of the year candidate to me.


My biggest concerns are:
- WR2 (which is why I am a huge proponent of signing Deandre Hopkins... but not at $15 million+ a year).
- Ken Dorsey
- Right Tackle (I don't think Spencer Brown is the long-term answer).
- Mildly concerned about LB, but not as much as others.


Despite the blowout loss to Cincy (who, by the way, I predicted would beat Buffalo in the playoff game) - the actual gap between Buffalo and KC/Cincy was not large to begin with. I will admit (and never denied), that the Chiefs and Bengals were a notch above Buffalo, but I can't fault Beane for anything he has done this off-season.

Instead of a generic negative statement, why don't you actually suggest something realistic that Beane could do / should have done?

[swiper]

This thread needs an appeal to authority.

(thinking to self… what does Joe B think of this move?)

:rofl:

https://www.artsumbrella.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Web-event_1920x1280-1156x626.jpg

[swiper]

My biggest concerns are:
- WR2 (which is why I am a huge proponent of signing Deandre Hopkins... but not at $15 million+ a year).
- Ken Dorsey
- Right Tackle (I don't think Spencer Brown is the long-term answer).
- Mildly concerned about LB, but not as much as others.



Don't disagree with any of this. But they signed Shell and resigned Quessenberry, so they don't believe in Brown either. Plus Tommy Doyle will be back.
I suspect you will see the return of Gabe Davis to 2021 form. Not too concerned there.
LB will wort itself out. They have bodies that will fill roles for them.
But you hit the nail on the head with Dorsey. If he doesn't turn the corner in his play calling they'll have problems.

[OpIv37]

THANKFULLY!!!!! The more I think about it, the more I think signing Hopkins would be a boneheaded move.


With more contending team coming out and saying they are not interested in Hopkins (https://www.si.com/nfl/cardinals/news/teams-arent-interested-arizona-cardinals-deandre-hopkins)....Dallas is the latest (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/05/stephen-jones-cowboys-arent-interested-in-deandre-hopkins/)....it’s becoming quite obvious that he’s just not worth what he wants.

Today it’s quite clear why the Bills decided to extend Oliver right now, probably reducing his cap number for 2023 by around half.

Signing EDGE Leonard Floyd. A proven rusher that has a ton of experience. It relieves so much pressure on Von Miller coming back too soon, and provides another quality rusher to rotate throughout the season.

We already know that whatever the Bills do, you "don’t see this team getting it done.”


So many so-called Bills “fans” who sound, act and and think like our opposition fans from Miami, NE and NYC. :rolleyes:
Ok.

The results on the field show we aren’t good enough to handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs. You think Floyd covers that gap?

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t.

[Oaf]

I expect a breakout year for Oliver this year

Is that more likely or the same if he were in a contract year? And yes, if he kills it (win for us), let him walk for $22M/year and a 3rd rd pick. Use a 2024 2nd or 3rd on a player with similar traits on a cost-controlled contract.
Guy's best year might've been his rookie year.

[Woodman]

I don't really know where you are going with this. In years past, you would point out specific things that you had issue with. I don't really see you making any suggestions now other than making a blanket statement that "we aren't closing the gap." I disagree. We are definitely closing the gap.

IMO, this is the best off-season the Bills have had in a long time. Compared to last season, we:
- Got Hyde and Poyer back together.
- Are getting a healthy Tre White back.
- Are getting Von Miller back. (I unfortunately don't know if he will be back to 100% though, so it wouldn't surprise me if his production dips).
- Signed Leonard Floyd and Poona Ford.
- Lost Leslie Frazier. I wanted Frazier gone, and it is my opinion he was basically fired, with a story "spun" to say he's taking a year off because they didn't want to publicly humiliate him.
- Made significant improvements on the O-Line. IMO, this was the biggest weakness last year.
- Improving the OLine will allow Dawson Knox to be more of a tight end than a 6th Offensive lineman.
- Made significant improvements to the RB room.
- Drafted Kincaid. I am a huge fan of this pick and think he's going to be great. I don't know if it will happen this year, or if he will need time to mature. He is a rookie of the year candidate to me.


My biggest concerns are:
- WR2 (which is why I am a huge proponent of signing Deandre Hopkins... but not at $15 million+ a year).
- Ken Dorsey
- Right Tackle (I don't think Spencer Brown is the long-term answer).
- Mildly concerned about LB, but not as much as others.


Despite the blowout loss to Cincy (who, by the way, I predicted would beat Buffalo in the playoff game) - the actual gap between Buffalo and KC/Cincy was not large to begin with. I will admit (and never denied), that the Chiefs and Bengals were a notch above Buffalo, but I can't fault Beane for anything he has done this off-season.

Instead of a generic negative statement, why don't you actually suggest something realistic that Beane could do / should have done?

Another :10:

:gobills:

[sukie]

Ok.

The results on the field show we aren’t good enough to handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs. You think Floyd covers that gap?

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t.

What gap? You worded the entire question wrong.

aren’t should be weren’t snd last season should be inserted after playoffs. It’s a past event and has nothing to do with now.

Now, Poonah, Rapp, Hyde, Tre full season, Poyer healthy, The Irishman and McGovern, Kincaid, The WR additions. The RB additions, Linebacker Room is fine without splash less Edmunds. Now too Floyd as a Starter til Von is back…

Bills did not stand Pat.

[sukie]

The remaining details can be found here (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/inside-the-ed-oliver-deal/), but in the end, the moral of this contract seems to be that Oliver could be cut after just one year and the Bills are out minimal money. It's a win for the Bills, and could potentially be a win for Oliver, as well.

https://buffalowdown.com/posts/buffalo-bills-news-ed-oliver-contract-details-reveal-bet-himself-01h28p8g89aj

do salary is 2 million for 2023 and there is a minimal money cut option to the Bills.

[notacon]

You are ALWAYS wrong. And so, have become the village jester (https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--jB57eSHb--/t_Preview/b_rgb:0f7b47,c_limit,f_jpg,h_630,q_90,w_630/v1513224809/production/designs/2176272_1.jpg)of this board. No one ever takes your garbage seriously. Just go crawl back under your rock. LOL @ you.

:rofl: Sorry, but I am hardly ever “wrong”.

You could, of course, back up your bombast and provide some semblance of proof that I’m "ALWAYS wrong” with links to what I wrote, in full context, and an explanation on what I was wrong about.

But even that would not have any credibility with the hyperbolic and silly declaration that I am “ALWAYS” wrong….like in every single post.

Funny, but in politics in the Spin Zone our attitudes and opinions mesh quite well…it’s only here in the Bills forum that we disagree…and where you try to bully me with your usual insufferable, immature middle school like routine.

But, you won’t do that. Because you can’t. Bullies like you are all bulster and no substance.

[Forward_Lateral]

The remaining details can be found here (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/inside-the-ed-oliver-deal/), but in the end, the moral of this contract seems to be that Oliver could be cut after just one year and the Bills are out minimal money. It's a win for the Bills, and could potentially be a win for Oliver, as well.

https://buffalowdown.com/posts/buffalo-bills-news-ed-oliver-contract-details-reveal-bet-himself-01h28p8g89aj
Makes it an even better contract.

Right now 24.5 million is fully guaranteed. That's it.

[notacon]

Ok.

The results on the field show we aren’t good enough to handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs. You think Floyd covers that gap?

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t.

Although the recent "results on the field” show a failure to "handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs”...SO WHAT???? Teams lose games in the playoffs. Teams win games in the playoffs.

Cincy showed by "results on the field” at they could “handle” KC in the playoffs....until they didn’t.

KC showed by "results on the field” that they were “not good enough to handle Cincy” in the playoffs (or in the regular season either losing to them twice in a row)...until they were.

The narrow mindedness and defeatist attitude infects your posts like a cancer. That’s your burden (ours is to have to read them :D:)

Buffalo DID show by "results on the field” that they were very much "good enough to handle KC” in the playoffs, but just came up a little short with some bad decisions (kicking the ball into the end zone) and bad luck with a coin flip.


They have shown by "results on the field” that they were very much "good enough to handle KC” in two consecutive regular season wins on the road at KC. The step to doing so in the playoffs is not as much as you want to parse it to be.

The “gap” you speak about is fungible and not measurable by any single player (besides QB). The addition of Hopkins is no more the one player that “fills that gap” than Floyd.

But every little piece that contributes to the whole DO matter, and CAN and WILL (eventually) “fill that gap”. In a team game, THAT is the reality.

What “fills the gap” is a multitude of factors, that includes luck. Luck in both the injury standpoint and the minuscule differences in spilt second unforeseen bounces of an oddly shaped ball that can go either way at any moment. The Bills have had profoundly BAD luck for the past two years. To deny that is to deny reality.


There is no doubt whatsoever that this Bills team is better than last year’s. Injuries decimated the team last season, and the improvements made in almost every position group has the smart Bills fan ecstatic. Leonard Floyd is one of the improvements who has a very good chance of being that one player that does in fact “fill the gap” in some measurable fashion.


An experienced and effective pass rusher is always welcome going against the best QB’s in the NFL in the AFC. He has had more sacks in the past three years (9, 9.5 & 10) than any Bills rusher since 2019 when Jordan Phillips had 9.5. That is not something to dismiss.

You go on being your Negative Nancy self...channeling your inner bitterness and sounding exactly like a Pats, Fins and Jets fan when talking about the Bills, desperately trying to crap on them and minimize their profound achievements and unquestioned quality and contender status. EONS better than the past two+ decades of sad sack awfulness.


Again, that is your burden, certainly not mine.

What goes around, comes around. I’m very much enjoying the ride and will enjoy it even more when the Bills finally do break through.

[notacon]

The remaining details can be found here (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/inside-the-ed-oliver-deal/), but in the end, the moral of this contract seems to be that Oliver could be cut after just one year and the Bills are out minimal money. It's a win for the Bills, and could potentially be a win for Oliver, as well.

https://buffalowdown.com/posts/buffalo-bills-news-ed-oliver-contract-details-reveal-bet-himself-01h28p8g89aj

do salary is 2 million for 2023 and there is a minimal money cut option to the Bills.

Spot on.

A contract extension that is good for both the team and the player.

What a concept!!!


The details are worth quoting in full....




1. Signing bonus: $14.75 million.

2. 2023 base salary: $2.028 million, fully guaranteed.

3. 2024 base salary: $14.75 million, $7.75 million of which is fully guaranteed at signing and $7 million of which is guaranteed for injury but becomes fully guaranteed on the first day of the 2024 waiver period.

4. 2024 option bonus: $12.5 million, which on exercise reduces the 2024 base salary to $2.25 million.

5. 2025 base salary: $13.75 million, $8.25 million of which becomes fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2024 league year and $5.5 million of which becomes fully guaranteed on the fifth day of the 2025 league year.

6. 2026 base salary: $14.125 million.

7. 2025 offseason roster bonus: $1.25 million.

8. 2027 base salary: $14.4 million.

9. 2024-27 workout bonuses: $500,000 per year.

10. 2024-27 per-game roster bonuses: $425,000 per year.

11. 2023 incentives: $500,000.

12. 2024-27 incentives: $750,000 per year.

The four-year, $68 million extension has $24.528 million fully guaranteed at signing. Another $7 million becomes fully guaranteed in February 2024. Another $8.25 million becomes fully guaranteed in March 2024. The final $5.5 million becomes fully guaranteed in March 2025.

The Bills could dump Oliver after one year and $16.778 million, with $7 million in guarantees for 2024 that would be subject to offset based on earnings elsewhere. They can dump him after two years and $32.453 million, with $8.25 million for 2025 subject to offset.



This sure looks like a very good deal for a quality and young DT that still has room to grow.

[Night Train]

Oliver and Poona Ford will do better if Jordan Phillips and D.Jones stay healthy and eat the double team. That was an issue last year.

Pressure up the middle is the biggest worry of any QB. They can step up in the pocket if they sense the outside rush. But if the 1 gap DT gets in there, the plans go sideways fast.

[notacon]

Oliver and Poona Ford will do better if Jordan Phillips and D.Jones stay healthy and eat the double team. That was an issue last year.

Pressure up the middle is the biggest worry of any QB. They can step up in the pocket if they sense the outside rush. But if the 1 gap DT gets in there, the plans go sideways fast.

I’ve mentioned several times how much a huge loss Daquan Jones was in the Cincy debacle.

That was the only game he missed ALL last season. His snap count for the season was 61.18%, most of any DT’s.

He only had one game with sub-50% snap count and that was barely....49.3% vs Pittsburgh.

Three of the last four games in the regular season he had over 70%....73% vs Jets week 14, 76.3% vs Miami week 15 & 73.5% vs NE week 18.

He was greatly missed vs Cincy.

[swiper]

I’ve mentioned several times how much a huge loss Daquan Jones was in the Cincy debacle.

That was the only game he missed ALL last season. His snap count for the season was 61.18%, most of any DT’s.

He only had one game with sub-50% snap count and that was barely....49.3% vs Pittsburgh.

Three of the last four games in the regular season he had over 70%....73% vs Jets week 14, 76.3% vs Miami week 15 & 73.5% vs NE week 18.

He was greatly missed vs Cincy.

https://www.artsumbrella.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Web-event_1920x1280-1156x626.jpg

[Woodman]

Ed Oliver believes he's going to "outplay" his $68 million contract extension - ProFootballTalk (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/ed-oliver-believes-hes-going-to-outplay-his-68-million-contract-extension/)

“I don’t feel any pressure; I feel like I’m going to outplay the contract (https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/bills-defensive-tackle-ed-oliver-intends-to-outplay-value-of-new-contract-just-sit-back/article_263576d2-04a3-11ee-8588-b742461685b5.html), to be honest,” Oliver said Tuesday, via O’Halloran. “I just want to shut everybody up who said I was overpaid [with the new contract]. Just sit back and watch me.”

The extension allowed the Bills to lower his cap hit from $10.753 million in 2023 to $4.978 million, and it also guarantees the team will have at least one defensive tackle under contract for 2024. Bills General Manager Brandon Beane said the team thinks Oliver’s best football is ahead of him, which is why they were willing to commit to him long term.

“[Defensive tackle] is a premium position in our league, and they’re hard to find, especially if you’re having the success we have and where we draft [late in the first round],” Beane said.

Oliver, the ninth overall pick in 2019, wanted to remain in Buffalo and keep building what the Bills are building.

[Bill Cody]

I think Beane did the right thing. He extended an Oliver branch, and Ed took it:laughing:

[Woodman]

Oliver and Poona Ford will do better if Jordan Phillips and D.Jones stay healthy and eat the double team. That was an issue last year.

Pressure up the middle is the biggest worry of any QB. They can step up in the pocket if they sense the outside rush. But if the 1 gap DT gets in there, the plans go sideways fast.

[Woodman]

The remaining details can be found here (https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/inside-the-ed-oliver-deal/), but in the end, the moral of this contract seems to be that Oliver could be cut after just one year and the Bills are out minimal money. It's a win for the Bills, and could potentially be a win for Oliver, as well.

https://buffalowdown.com/posts/buffalo-bills-news-ed-oliver-contract-details-reveal-bet-himself-01h28p8g89aj

do salary is 2 million for 2023 and there is a minimal money cut option to the Bills.

Love it! :cheers:

[swiper]

Ok.

The results on the field show we aren’t good enough to handle KC or Cincy in the playoffs. You think Floyd covers that gap?

Spoiler alert: he doesn’t.

All the changes do, however. Sorry to burst your bubble of doubt. KC and Cincinnati aren't that great.

[Jeff1220]

Four games into the 2023 season, this Oliver extension is looking like quite the bargain. He has been consistently and relentlessly causing havoc. The rest of the DL is looking ridiculously tough too. Go Bills.

[justasportsfan]

Oliver and Daquan Jones are beasts. What a complete difference with McD calling the shots. Now we're attacking. Now we're becoming the bullies with just 4 players and we sill have guys like Poona Ford on the bench.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I was wrong about Bernard and I was wrong about this, too.

McDermott is making a fool out of me.

And I love it.

[sahlensguy]

I was wrong about Bernard and I was wrong about this, too.

McDermott is making a fool out of me.

And I love it.

You were wrong, and I was wrong about McD. But...all I was critical of was wanting a change at leadership, which happened when McD took on the DC duties as well as HC. So I'm covered...

[Woodman]

Oliver and Daquan Jones are beasts. What a complete difference with McD calling the shots. Now we're attacking. Now we're becoming the bullies with just 4 players and we sill have guys like Poona Ford on the bench.

Both have been great.

[sukie]

Oddly (in a good way) Poona has been benched purely on a numbers situation. The way Dawson and Oliver are playing… he will be well rested. Nice problem to have. Also on one of Rousseau’s sacks… he was lined up at DT.