On Denney; Just for you T... [Archive] - BillsZone.com

09-04-2003, 12:09 PM

What are everyone's thoughts on Ryan Denney as our starter at LDE?

Are you merely hopeful w/o cause?

Did you see "something big" during preseason?

Just asking b/c T got a little miffed at my reiteration of concern at the status of our DL which I really don't think is much different from last season.

Of course that is predicated on the notion that Adams continues to play poorly as he did in the PS and that Denney hasn't really shown much other than he's "better" than a handful of other below average starting DEs.

We got below average to average DE play last year by a platoon. I'm not expecting that Denney's will be much different assuming we don't resort back to the platooning. As to Adams, well, if all he's gonna be is what he was in PS, then it's a step backwards IMO.

So what are your thoughts, primarily on Denney since we all realize that we'll have to wait for RS to see what Adams can do?

Patrick76777

09-04-2003, 12:12 PM

At this moment, he's the best we have. So I'm going to hope he does well and pull for him.

It's a waste of energy to sit hear and talk about how average he is.

I think Kelsey will be better and when he is, he'll take the job.

Throne Logic

09-04-2003, 12:13 PM

Tatonka

09-04-2003, 12:14 PM

does it really matter what our thoughts are? they are not going to change your mind..

am i concerned? some..

am i hopeful and excited and thinking positive.. definately..

after the game is over is the only time you can judge them.... and i feel sorry for the souls that dont play well on the d line.. because i can see the 10 pages of jibberjabber coming if they get beat up at all.. even for one play..

i can see it now.. sam adams dives into a pile to make a goal line tackle..

wys takes notes - "sam fell on the ground again.. presumably put there by the back up o lineman that was in on the play"

:D

09-04-2003, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by Patrick76777
At this moment, he's the best we have. So I'm going to hope he does well and pull for him.

It's a waste of energy to sit hear and talk about how average he is.

I think Kelsey will be better and when he is, he'll take the job.

No one said anyone's "not pulling for him."

You completely misunderstand me if you happen to believe that I wouldn't be pulling for him! I'll be pulling for Sam too. Hopefully Sam won't be pulling himself on the sidelines in a few weeks!

It may be a waste of energy, but isn't that what these boards are all about?

I'm just curious why people hold their views.

You've stated yours which has been seconded by another, that he's "the best we have" and therefore you are "merely hopeful w/o cause" as suggested in the first post asking the question.

Thank you! Come again.

BillsNick

09-04-2003, 12:21 PM

I am sllightly concerned, I view that position as our biggest weakness until proven otherwise. I will, however, reserve my final judgment until I see him in action for real. It's going to take a few good plays a game and consistency to gain my confidence.

Patrick76777

09-04-2003, 12:22 PM

No one said you're not pulling for him

and I know this is a message board.

but it's 3 days til kickoff and people are pumped up. they don't want to hear about how worried you are about the 1 single weakness on our D.

Ebenezer

09-04-2003, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Throne Logic
What he said.

ditto

LtBillsFan66

09-04-2003, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by Patrick76777
No one said you're not pulling for him

and I know this is a message board.

but it's 3 days til kickoff and people are pumped up. they don't want to hear about how worried you are about the 1 single weakness on our D.

I agree.

Wys man. We cannot, and no team can, have the best players in the league at every single position.

We are looking at a new style of D with some new playmakers in there. That alone will make everyone perform better.

TypicalBill

09-04-2003, 12:24 PM

I think he'll do just fine... i mean, in limited action during preseason he had 9 tackles, 2 forced fumbles and a fumble recovery .... he's healthy, coming into his 2nd year and will only improve... we can see that he deffinately improved from his rookie season.

Jan Reimers

09-04-2003, 12:28 PM

Denney has improved greatly from last year, and Kelsay will improve quickly and challenge for the starting spot.

TedMock

09-04-2003, 12:31 PM

I admit that as far as Denney's concerned I'm "hopeful without cause". Truth be told, he sucked last season. He did have a couple of forced fumbles in the pre-season and has put on some much needed weight. That makes me hopeful but he's still what I'm most concerned about. My second biggest concern, defensively, is Sam Adams. It's 50/50 right now. He's big and stong enough to hold his own and take up blockers but he also has a laziness problem that he needs to fight off. I don't care if he has zero tackles and zero sacks as long as RB's have to bounce outside. I don't think Denney's ever going to be a big time pass rusher. What I'm hoping for is that he's strong enough not to get blown off the ball and keep things inside. If this happens, his long arms will occasionally be able to grab the ball carrier or swat at the ball. I'm hopeful but definitely cautiously hopeful.

Jan Reimers

09-04-2003, 12:32 PM

We are much improved over last year, when Chidi and Irons - who couldn't make this year's team - got lots of work.

09-04-2003, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Tatonka
does it really matter what our thoughts are? they are not going to change your mind..

Again, you misunderstand me T.

I'm merely curious why everyone has this hope that defending against Brady is gonna be like some piece of cake.

Where's the pass rush gonna come from?

B/c if it's anything like last year, we won't have one, right?

Since I see little difference, I'm trying to reconcile all this hype over our D rushing the passer as we're now saying.

Is it coming from our LBs? If so, then who's gonna cover the short OTM field where 70% of Brady's throws end up? What, Fletcher? I have to laugh!

I hearin' one thing, but seein' another. It's more than "oh well, keserasera" here. If we can't generate a pass rush, expect that Pats, who've been HOT BTW, to tear our D apart exactly the way the Rams did! You don't think that BB is unaware of our continual weakness in the preseason to defend against the short pass and the OTM stuff, do ya?

If not, then it should be a high concern to all of us, yet, I'm just not hearin' that.

09-04-2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Jan Reimers
We are much improved over last year, when Chidi and Irons - who couldn't make this year's team - got lots of work.

IDK JR. You really think that Denney is better than CA? I don't.

Irons didn't really play anymore than in relief.

09-04-2003, 12:42 PM

Originally posted by Jan Reimers
Denney has improved greatly from last year, and Kelsay will improve quickly and challenge for the starting spot.

Again, yes, he's improved. But here's the analogy; He went from a plate of mudpies to an overcooked burger.

Are you all that much more excited to have lunch now?

09-04-2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Patrick76777
No one said you're not pulling for him

and I know this is a message board.

but it's 3 days til kickoff and people are pumped up. they don't want to hear about how worried you are about the 1 single weakness on our D.

Unbelieveable!

It really is...

Yeah, I've been harping on one single weakness w/o mentioning anything else...

:deadhorse:

TypicalBill

09-04-2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Again, yes, he's improved. But here's the analogy; He went from a plate of mudpies to an overcooked burger.

Are you all that much more excited to have lunch now?

:rofl: Good one Wys ... i think i'll just :puke: now

but honestly, did you just give up on a player who struggled in his rookie season and looked improved in the preseason without seeing him start the first game of his career? IDK

09-04-2003, 12:46 PM

The funny thing is that when this whole thing comes home to roost, everyone will be saying how everything sucks and I'll be the level-headed one coming back the other way.

It's always gotta be 150% positive or the world completely sucks, eh. Never any middle ground w/ discussion of serious issues amidst a whole lot of positives. But no, I suppose we all have to completely ignore any and all negatives and become total homers, eh!

Unbelieveable!

justasportsfan

09-04-2003, 12:50 PM

09-04-2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by TypicalBill

:rofl: Good one Wys ... i think i'll just :puke: now

but honestly, did you just give up on a player than struggled in his rookie season and looked improved in the preseason without seeing him start the first game of his career? IDK

Who's giving up on him? I would have after last year. But let's get serious here. I think the margin of improvement is driving this thing, this new love affair w/ Denney. I speak partly facetiously, but IMO many are overrating his worth.

On one hand, preseason is meaningless for a variety of reasons and therefore to be dismissed. But for Denney, his two sacks are only a harbinger of things to come. Doesn't make sense.

Yes, he improved. But he's got a WHOLE lot of improving to do if he's gonna be a player for us. I say he still has to improve then again as much during this season if he's gonna compete for the starting spot next year. We have a sore need for a DE and still a DT. Just b/c Denney's been named the starter doesn't mean he's good. He's better, but better than what? Nada!

We'll see. Maybe he will step up. IDK. But if not, then yes, after this season, I say we cut him if we need the space, and hopefully we will, at least for another DE. He had an OK preseason, but he hasn't proven anything. And if everyone's assessment of preseason applies to players who didn't show up, then perhaps it should also apply to a player who didn't even get all of his reps with or versus the first units.

09-04-2003, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by justasportsfan

He's improved? Where do you base this from?

From the fact that his status as a "trade up 2nd rounder" was next to laughable last year.

Or did you happen to see a Hugh Douglas in the making while he was on the field?

If ya did, you may want to review those tapes to see if the colors on the unis were actually those of the Bills.

LtBillsFan66

09-04-2003, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
The funny thing is that when this whole thing comes home to roost, everyone will be saying how everything sucks and I'll be the level-headed one coming back the other way.

It's always gotta be 150% positive or the world completely sucks, eh. Never any middle ground w/ discussion of serious issues amidst a whole lot of positives. But no, I suppose we all have to completely ignore any and all negatives and become total homers, eh!

Unbelieveable!

We all feel the same bit of concern. We just don't feel the need to bring it up in every single post. Plus many of want to see how the season goes before focusing on the what ifs.

lordofgun

09-04-2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
I'm merely curious why everyone has this hope that defending against Brady is gonna be like some piece of cake.

Wys, you've never been "merely curious" in your life. :D

justasportsfan

09-04-2003, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy

From the fact that his status as a "trade up 2nd rounder" was next to laughable last year.

Or did you happen to see a Hugh Douglas in the making while he was on the field?

If ya did, you may want to review those tapes to see if the colors on the unis were actually those of the Bills.
On one hand, preseason is meaningless for a variety of reasons and therefore to be dismissed.

Hmm. Bait!

If preseason is so meaningless, how is Sam Adams useless and Kelsay a bust , based on what you've seen in preseason.

Oops.zb's My bad. My bad :D

TigerJ

09-04-2003, 12:58 PM

Well, I think given what has happened to the rest of the defence, the defensive line is clearly the weak link. Not having seen two of the preseason games, and not having focussed on line play, I haven't really formed an opinion on Sam Adams' play. I don't even know how much he played. I do know he's got bad knees, so there is always going to be a concern that he could go down almost any time. I'm hopeful that he'll be at least somewhat effective in the regular season at doing what he's supposed to do, stop the run and tie up blockers so Pat Williams can penetrate. I can't provide any documentation that that will in fact be the case. I expect some improvement from Denney. I remain skeptical that he has what it takes to be a good defensive end, but I'm open to be convinced and hopeful that he will. What's the old adage? "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst." It's never more applicable than when you're talking football. At worst I do think there will be some incremental improvement in D-line play over last year. I hope it will be more than that.

Jan Reimers

09-04-2003, 01:23 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy
IDK JR. You really think that Denney is better than CA? I don't.

Irons didn't really play anymore than in relief.
Wys - I hope RD and CK are better than CA and GI, or why are they here? I know they're both 2nd round picks, but I can't believe that's the reason.

Patrick76777

09-04-2003, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy

Unbelieveable!

It really is...

Yeah, I've been harping on one single weakness w/o mentioning anything else...

:deadhorse:

I swear you only read what you want to.

Patrick76777

09-04-2003, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Wys Guy

I think the margin of improvement is driving this thing, this new love affair w/ Denney.

That's just it Wys. NOBODY has a love affair with Denney. I'd bet 95% of the people on this board would say that his position is the weakest on our D. But why worry about that now? Strahan and Peppers will not be released today! We've got what we've got. There is nothing we can do about it, so I don't see why we should talk about it again.

And it's not like TD didn't try to fix the problem. He signed KM, MJ and drafted CK. KM is good, MJ was a bust and CK should be good, but he's not ready to start yet.

It didn't work.

But I'm hoping that having, Pat Williams, TKO, London, Milloy, Clements, Winfield and yes even your big question marks of Adams and Posey will compensate for a weak LDE!

Morgoth

09-04-2003, 01:43 PM

Hell, I don't care what any of ya say now. The proof is in the pudding and that gets served on Sunday. Preseason is like masturbating with a cheese-grater. Slightly amusing but mostly painful. I'm a homer starting at 1PM est and my Bills can do no wrong, everybody else sucks.

TypicalBill

09-04-2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Morgoth
Hell, I don't care what any of ya say now. The proof is in the pudding and that gets served on Sunday. Preseason is like masturbating with a cheese-grater. Slightly amusing but mostly painful. I'm a homer starting at 1PM est and my Bills can do no wrong, everybody else sucks.

:rofl: :beers:

timfromjersey

09-04-2003, 02:14 PM

Hey, Let's just skip the petting stage and get down to the bare knuckles of this thing. The management and coaches are just hoping to get a little something-something of a pass rush out of Shobel and some run defense out Denney. The pass rush will still be anemic. They know it. That's why they got Spikes. If they can freelance him a little, he will be a big help in this area.

With Denney, let's just hope he will help the run defense. It all starts with stopping the run first! Football theory 101.

Just another cliche'd underanalysis by your friendly neighborhood ignored poster.

timfromjersey

09-04-2003, 02:22 PM

btw,

When exactly in the process is masturbating with a cheese grater slightly amusing.

inquiring minds want to know?

Tatonka

09-04-2003, 03:43 PM

wys.. it is all about your timing.. we all just want to be geeked about the game and fired up.. that is why people are jumping down your throat about bring this crap up now.. we are going with what we got at this point.. and we will win with it!

"speak for yourself"
"you think i would speak for you, i dont even know your language"
the breakfast club.

Drewpac

09-04-2003, 04:09 PM

I definitely view the DL as being a weak-link on our team. However, I do think it is better than last season. I do believe Denney is a slight upgrade over Chidi and even if Edwards is better than Adams I think he has shown significant improvement over last year. Then you must take into consideration that Shoebel should continue to improve as well. Our two starting ends are only entering their 2nd and 3rd professional seasons and they will continue to improve with experience. Who knows? Our D-Line may be a strength by the end of the season.