Without taxpayer help, the Bills would have moved

[Woodman]

Erie County Executive- Without taxpayer help, the Bills would have moved - NBC Sports (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/erie-county-executive-without-taxpayer-help-the-bills-would-have-moved)

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred recently bungled not by believing communities need to be willing to pay for sports stadiums but by saying it out loud. It’s something that doesn’t ever need to be said, because it’s a given.
In Western New York, for example, it was a given that the Bills would have moved without free money to build their new stadium. In an interview with Tim O’Shei of the Buffalo News, Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz made that belief crystal clear.
“The NFL is a business,” Poloncarz said, via Sports Business Journal. “You’re negotiating with one of 32 of the owners of the business. They have the ability, like a lot of the other businesses that we’ve seen in our town, to move if they feel it’s better for them. They have a business goal in mind, which is, in general, to make as much money as possible.

[Forward_Lateral]

Of the current 32 teams, guess how many stadiums were built without tax payer dollars?

Three.

Met Life, Gillette and So-Fi. So-Fi the only recent one.

[Bill Cody]

Of the current 32 teams, guess how many stadiums were built without tax payer dollars?

Three.

Met Life, Gillette and So-Fi. So-Fi the only recent one.

Yeah it's obscene

[Goobylal]

And if Buffalo didn't do it, some other city would have.

[Night Train]

That's true of any small market that receives revenue sharing.

If we let Jones and other big market owners call the shots, half the NFL teams would be dissolved.

[YardRat]

Bull****. Polencarz takes advantage of every opportunity he gets to disparage the Bills, in whatever way he can. Big time little man syndrome when it comes to dealing with the organization, he's pathetic.

[gr8slayer]

Right or wrong, it's the reality of sports in today's world. If you want a professional team, the tax payer is likely going to have to cough up some money.

[Forward_Lateral]

Bull****. Polencarz takes advantage of every opportunity he gets to disparage the Bills, in whatever way he can. Big time little man syndrome when it comes to dealing with the organization, he's pathetic.
I do find it insulting to my intelligence that he just assumes Pegula would move the team. Has Terry every come out and said that? I highly doubt it. But you know how the media works these days, make up crap and apologize after instead of due diligence and making sure you have the facts.

[notacon]

Of the current 32 teams, guess how many stadiums were built without tax payer dollars?

Three.

Met Life, Gillette and So-Fi. So-Fi the only recent one.

Not surprising. NYC & LA are the two largest media markets in the US. Boston is #9. NE is one also of the richest teams, and most profitable in the NFL.

I have no problem with taxpayer money spent on stadiums that are a huge benefit to the citizens in the area.

How about this....

Of all the American cities how many have parks that were built and maintained without taxpayer money? NONE.

Of the 424 National Park Sites, how many are maintained without taxpayer money??? NONE!!!

I could go on and on and on. The fact is that a thriving society uses taxpayer money to advance the interests and benefits to the people that live in that society.

The argument that sports stadiums only benefit the people that attend the games is silly and dishonest. I have visited only a handful of National Park sites. So what???

[Bill Cody]

Not surprising. NYC & LA are the two largest media markets in the US. Boston is #9. NE is one also of the richest teams, and most profitable in the NFL.

I have no problem with taxpayer money spent on stadiums that are a huge benefit to the citizens in the area.

How about this....

Of all the American cities how many have parks that were built and maintained without taxpayer money? NONE.

Of the 424 National Park Sites, how many are maintained without taxpayer money??? NONE!!!

I could go on and on and on. The fact is that a thriving society uses taxpayer money to advance the interests and benefits to the people that live in that society.

The argument that sports stadiums only benefit the people that attend the games is silly and dishonest. I have visited only a handful of National Park sites. So what???

The difference if the government owns the parks, in almost all cases the billionaire owner owns the stadium. Owning an NFL team is similar to owning a dollar printing press. The people getting these public handouts do not need them. It's a form of extortion. I'm all for providing infrastructure support but these billionaire handouts are offensive. It is a zero sum game in this case. The money spent on stadiums is not spent on other badly needed programs for people that actually need the help.

It's like a cyber attack, in this case the pirate is the billionaire. "Give me X or I release your date". "Give me X or I move the team". A lot of times it's just bluster. Bob Kraft threatened to move to CT or RI. MA said "go ahead". He caved.

[Goobylal]

The difference if the government owns the parks, in almost all cases the billionaire owner owns the stadium. Owning an NFL team is similar to owning a dollar printing press. The people getting these public handouts do not need them. It's a form of extortion. I'm all for providing infrastructure support but these billionaire handouts are offensive. It is a zero sum game in this case. The money spent on stadiums is not spent on other badly needed programs for people that actually need the help.

It's like a cyber attack, in this case the pirate is the billionaire. "Give me X or I release your date". "Give me X or I move the team". A lot of times it's just bluster. Bob Kraft threatened to move to CT or RI. MA said "go ahead". He caved.

If an NFL stadium is mostly funded by taxpayers, the owner doesn't own it.

[Bill Cody]

If an NFL stadium is mostly funded by taxpayers, the owner doesn't own it.

ok thanks

[Woodman]

If an NFL stadium is mostly funded by taxpayers, the owner doesn't own it.

He owns the team absolutely.

[Goobylal]

He owns the team absolutely.

Of course. He paid cash for it. However the new stadium will be owned by the State of NY.

[Woodman]

Of course. He paid cash for it. However the new stadium will be owned by the State of NY.

Absolutely of course.

We need the team he needs the stadium.

Works for me. :gobills:

[Historian]

I don't have a problem contributing tax dollars to any cultural institution, be it the AKG, The Science Museum, or the Buffalo Bills.

What cheeses me off, is when the project being built doesn't take into account any common sense.

This should have had a dome. The winds start here in August, and don't die down until March.

And to spend such absorbent amounts of money for 10 games (and one Billy Joel concert) a year is just plain silly.

What they did in Foxboro made sense. You can take a stadium tour, get a bite to eat and shop year round.

I guess we just don't have that kind of vision here.

[Goobylal]

I don't have a problem contributing tax dollars to any cultural institution, be it the AKG, The Science Museum, or the Buffalo Bills.

What cheeses me off, is when the project being built doesn't take into account any common sense.

This should have had a dome. The winds start here in August, and don't die down until March.

And to spend such absorbent amounts of money for 10 games (and one Billy Joel concert) a year is just plain silly.

What they did in Foxboro made sense. You can take a stadium tour, get a bite to eat and shop year round.

I guess we just don't have that kind of vision here.

The wind issue will be fixed by several changes from the previous stadium. And most stadiums don't hold many non-football events at them either.

Foxboro doesn't have a dome. I think the reason why the new stadium doesn't is because they wanted a grass field for the players and that would mean not only $300M more for a dome but probably another $50M for the tray system.

[DraftBoy]

The wind issue will be fixed by several changes from the previous stadium. And most stadiums don't hold many non-football events at them either.

Foxboro doesn't have a dome. I think the reason why the new stadium doesn't is because they wanted a grass field for the players and that would mean not only $300M more for a dome but probably another $50M for the tray system.

Nobody knows that first part is actually true until the things is built and Id double check your sourcing on the second point. I know places like Lincoln Financial, MBS, and others all do concerts, soccer, and other events throughout the football offseason.

[Historian]

Oh I understand the thought process behind the decision, Goobs, I just wish they had taken a longer look at what could have been.

[Goobylal]

Nobody knows that first part is actually true until the things is built and Id double check your sourcing on the second point. I know places like Lincoln Financial, MBS, and others all do concerts, soccer, and other events throughout the football offseason.

Sure they know on the first one. It's what engineers are paid to do. Computer/AI modelling is infinitely more advanced from when Rich Stadium was first built. As for the 2nd, big cities will obviously get more events. Buffalo even with a dome isn't getting more than a handful because weather makes scheduling stuff so unpredictable when it's not summer.


Oh I understand the thought process behind the decision, Goobs, I just wish they had taken a longer look at what could have been.

As with most things, it came down to money and feasibility. A downtown stadium with a dome and grass field would have cost $1B more when all was said and done. Who's footing that bill?

[notacon]

The difference if the government owns the parks, in almost all cases the billionaire owner owns the stadium. Owning an NFL team is similar to owning a dollar printing press. The people getting these public handouts do not need them. It's a form of extortion. I'm all for providing infrastructure support but these billionaire handouts are offensive. It is a zero sum game in this case. The money spent on stadiums is not spent on other badly needed programs for people that actually need the help.

It's like a cyber attack, in this case the pirate is the billionaire. "Give me X or I release your date". "Give me X or I move the team". A lot of times it's just bluster. Bob Kraft threatened to move to CT or RI. MA said "go ahead". He caved.


If an NFL stadium is mostly funded by taxpayers, the owner doesn't own it.

Gooby is correct. Ownership of the stadium is a complicated idea. Usually (I have not researched every single deal...this is in general) teams lease the stadium from an entity that is created to hold “ownership” and facilitate its use.

If a team owner actually “owned” a stadium that means he has free rein to sell it anytime and to anyone he/she likes. I suspect that is not the case for every stadium.

I understand the idea of “extortion”. I don't agree at all. Especially in a market as small as Buffalo. The team is dishing up real money toward the stadium. It’s more accurately called a “partnership”. (although I thought the government should have leveraged their contribution more to force the stadium to be located in the city)

Terry Pegula could make buckets more money by moving the team. Ralph Wilson (despite me feelings that he was a terrible owner) could have made tons and tons of money if he moved the team. In fact, straying in Buffalo was a really dumb thing to do if money was the only criteria.

A “win-win” partnership where each side gets something of value.

[Historian]

I'll give you another example of what I'm talking about, completely non-football related.

The Albright-Knox had their grand re-opening about a week and a half ago. The place is a real gem.

The opening was for local dignitaries, the media, and members.

Since there was no place to park, they parked on the back lawn.

Over a hundred people came out to 60 dollar parking tickets on their cars.

And even when the new ramp is open, it won't fix the problem.

Typical Buffalo.

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/buffalo/buffalo-akg-art-museum-visitors-slapped-with-parking-tickets/

[Gilly]

Erie County Executive- Without taxpayer help, the Bills would have moved - NBC Sports (https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/erie-county-executive-without-taxpayer-help-the-bills-would-have-moved)

MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred recently bungled not by believing communities need to be willing to pay for sports stadiums but by saying it out loud. It’s something that doesn’t ever need to be said, because it’s a given.
In Western New York, for example, it was a given that the Bills would have moved without free money to build their new stadium. In an interview with Tim O’Shei of the Buffalo News, Erie County Executive Mark Poloncarz made that belief crystal clear.
“The NFL is a business,” Poloncarz said, via Sports Business Journal. “You’re negotiating with one of 32 of the owners of the business. They have the ability, like a lot of the other businesses that we’ve seen in our town, to move if they feel it’s better for them. They have a business goal in mind, which is, in general, to make as much money as possible.
Screw it the state wastes so much money on BS already. It’s great we got a stadium out of it. No more talking about the Bills moving is going to dissapoint a lot of posters here

[Woodman]

No more talking about the Bills moving is going to dissapoint a lot of posters here
I think we all know a few. :cheers:


:gobills: