New Highmark Stadium just got MORE expensive

[ckg927]

To the tune of as much as $300 million.

That's per the AP.

The Niagara Gazette has the story in question; likewise, doing a search for "Highmark Stadium overruns" will also bring up the story.

[ckg927]

You can also look up http://apnews.com/ for that story.

[sukie]

How do you blow through a budget by 300 million and not a single seat has been installed?

[OLDSRIP]

Hi all,

Didn’t we know this would happen before it even started?
When has a project like this not been way over budget?

[OpIv37]

Crazy to be this over budget when they barely started

[ckg927]

Hell, Tennessee's getting a roof for THEIR new stadium. The Titans just released video of it and it looks GREAT.

[sukie]

Crazy to be this over budget when they barely started
It’s a giant mud pit… trackter pull? Monster trucks? Gotta maybe host a telethon.

[Novacane]

Who's picking up the 300 mil tab?

[OpIv37]

It’s a giant mud pit… trackter pull? Monster trucks? Gotta maybe host a telethon.

Get everyone to bring their winter cars for a demolition derby.

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Who's picking up the 300 mil tab?

Should be Pegula but it will likely be the NYS taxpayer.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

I work in construction economics and while inputs to contractor producer prices have peaked and fallen, the contractor output producer prices have not. They just peaked and are expected to stay flat for a year or a little more before resuming a trend around which any volatility could mean up or down. What is costing a lot is anything with electrical steel, meaning transformers, motors, etc. But $300-$400M this early after contracting? Hmmm. Sounds like design bust or changes wanting to be made. Or, depending on the delivery method, it could just be gamesmanship from one of the more experienced joint-ventures out there, Gilbane-Turner. Contractors are notoriously self-interested, and owners sometimes set themselves up for failure. Like 90% of the time. I now have an insider at Legends, so maybe I can find out some dirty details.

[Typ0]

So they have dug up some parking lot ... and didn't even truck the piles of rock off site ... and they have thus far incurred in excess of a 20% overrun? OK, this is bad and this project is about to run into a brick wall. They can't even come up with 300K and fix the problems because at this pace the cluster**** is going to be 3X the original projections.

[Oaf]

Who's picking up the 300 mil tab?
OBD is responsible

[YardRat]

They aren't $300 million over yet, that figure is based on cost projections, so it's a theoretical budget number still. As RGB pointed out, the figure is probably derived from updating costs that could be higher than the estimated budget like labor, electrical, steel, future design changes. The only way the project could be literally over budget at this time is with site work labor/fuel/equipment running higher than anticipated, change orders that affect the cost of material (which architects and engineers typically get a flat percentage added to their revenue for doing them and thus is an incentive to estimate high), and possibly even projected and/or already incurred interest on financing if there is any, i.e. if Pegs had to re-do some because of the delay by Erie County and Polencarz to give final approval.

That being said, if market conditions in construction don't trend downward anytime in the next couple of years it wouldn't surprise me if the final bill gets a lot closer to 2 bil.

[jamze132]

Now we can speculate why Raccuia was fired. Maybe most if the bids should have been completed by now…

[Historian]

"They're still moving!!!" -WYS

[Ed]

How do you blow through a budget by 300 million and not a single seat has been installed?
The original $1.4 mil was an estimate and not a hard bid or contract price. From the articles I read it sounds like most of the bids aren't even under contract yet. So the $300 mil is a projection based on rising material and labor costs. It's not based on money that's already been spent. Once all the final bids are in that number might go up or down based on how competitive the bids are.

Per the agreement the team is responsible for all overruns. As far as I can tell the $850 mil or whatever it was from the state can't go up.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Now we can speculate why Raccuia was fired. Maybe most if the bids should have been completed by now…

This is a good insight. There are or have been several studies calling early estimates “lies” in order to get things rolling.

[ckg927]

Should be Pegula but it will likely be the NYS taxpayer.

If memory serves, the Bills will be on the hook for any cost overruns.


Also, all of the local stations made mention of it this morning; also, 4 and 7(at least check)are still linking to the original AP story.

[notacon]

The original $1.4 mil was an estimate and not a hard bid or contract price. From the articles I read it sounds like most of the bids aren't even under contract yet. So the $300 mil is a projection based on rising material and labor costs. It's not based on money that's already been spent. Once all the final bids are in that number might go up or down based on how competitive the bids are.

Per the agreement the team is responsible for all overruns. As far as I can tell the $850 mil or whatever it was from the state can't go up.

Spot on.

In all reality the “overruns” (at this point) is over the estimates made around 2020 and 2021.

I read in the Buffalo News that less than 10% of the bids are completed.

The county and state have approval rights over any changes that are done, and the public money is not going to change.

[Skooby]

We know why people were S-canned but there’s escalating clauses in every deal on builds, materials have risen in price.

[BansheeSioux]

Ridiculous story. Anybody Important knows/knew exactly the cost/s of everything and what ever else. No one's surprised by diddly.

[Goobylal]

Imagine if they had put this in DT Buffalo. The cost-overruns would be almost $1B.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Ridiculous story. Anybody Important knows/knew exactly the cost/s of everything and what ever else. No one's surprised by diddly.

That's interesting. How do you figure?

[DraftBoy]

That's interesting. How do you figure?

I’d love to know too. The volatility in the labor and supply markets makes most estimates solid guesses at best.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

I’d love to know too. The volatility in the labor and supply markets makes most estimates solid guesses at best.

I’ve been in that business nearly 40 years. “Knowing exact costs” is a fantasy.

[BansheeSioux]

I’d love to know too. The volatility in the labor and supply markets makes most estimates solid guesses at best.

That's for the simpletons. There is no guess work by billionaires.
Lol at they didn't know or see it coming. They have armies of bean counters and lawyers. This is no surprise to them.
Not like theyre gonna stop building or anything. Oopsy, made a mistake. Just gonna have to tax the stupid fans, and public who doesn't even watch or care about sports...tax them more. And good luck getting a ticket as hard hat Joe. Probably have to go to jets games now. .......ok, maybe that's pushing it too far lol.

[Goobylal]

That's for the simpletons. There is no guess work by billionaires.
Lol at they didn't know or see it coming. They have armies of bean counters and lawyers. This is no surprise to them.
Not like theyre gonna stop building or anything. Oopsy, made a mistake. Just gonna have to tax the stupid fans, and public who doesn't even watch or care about sports...tax them more. And good luck getting a ticket as hard hat Joe. Probably have to go to jets games now. .......ok, maybe that's pushing it too far lol.

If you can't afford the ticket to go to the game...watch it for free at home.

[BansheeSioux]

If you can't afford the ticket to go to the game...watch it for free at home.
Sure. But some people want a little more of a experience.

Gotta save a year just to go to one game

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Sure. But some people want a little more of a experience.

Gotta save a year just to go to one game

Work harder Bub.

[BansheeSioux]

Work harder Bub.

What a seriously odd troll statement that is. Work harder than what? Than who? To just be a middle class schlub.. that itself doesn't even exist anymore.
The wealthiest work.tge least. So working harder is actually pretty dumb.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

What a seriously odd troll statement that is. Work harder than what? Than who? To just be a middle class schlub.. that itself doesn't even exist anymore.
The wealthiest work.tge least. So working harder is actually pretty dumb.

Well then slack off with us 1%ers then.

[DraftBoy]

That's for the simpletons. There is no guess work by billionaires.
Lol at they didn't know or see it coming. They have armies of bean counters and lawyers. This is no surprise to them.
Not like theyre gonna stop building or anything. Oopsy, made a mistake. Just gonna have to tax the stupid fans, and public who doesn't even watch or care about sports...tax them more. And good luck getting a ticket as hard hat Joe. Probably have to go to jets games now. .......ok, maybe that's pushing it too far lol.

You can make it simpler by just saying you made it up.

[BansheeSioux]

You can make it simpler by just saying you made it up.

Made what up? They know.
They always know. They aren't John Q lunch pail dumbass Smith.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Made what up? They know.
They always know. They aren't John Q lunch pail dumbass Smith.

I think maybe you came into this discussion a little too sure. Some of us just may work in that industry, subscribe to economics forecasts, have tracked the changes in forecasts the past couple of years to try to understand the degree the forecasts were changed due to Covid, war, and boomer retirements creating a “perfect storm” of economic uncertainty.

Yet despite all that in our faces every work day, you seem to think it’s all a ruse, as if it’s a rich man’s game to get the deal and then bleed them dry. Believe me, I’ve seen that. But certainty and knowledge are never present. I think you need to have that in order to justify what looks like a conspiracy, to reach into the taxpayer’s pockets.

Maybe you can tell us how you know billionaires so well. Do you have a yacht?

[BansheeSioux]

I think maybe you came into this discussion a little too sure. Some of us just may work in that industry, subscribe to economics forecasts, have tracked the changes in forecasts the past couple of years to try to understand the degree the forecasts were changed due to Covid, war, and boomer retirements creating a “perfect storm” of economic uncertainty.

Yet despite all that in our faces every work day, you seem to think it’s all a ruse, as if it’s a rich man’s game to get the deal and then bleed them dry. Believe me, I’ve seen that. But certainty and knowledge are never present. I think you need to have that in order to justify what looks like a conspiracy, to reach into the taxpayer’s pockets.

Maybe you can tell us how you know billionaires so well. Do you have a yacht?

What ruse? They have, we don't have. We are tax slaves. Nothing gormes wrong for them.
Conspiracy is exactly how the world is run. That's not theory. It's fact.
Definition of conspiracy= wealthy powerful men behind closed doors, deciding your future. That's how countries have always been run.
Needing to lay more for the stadium doesn't mean crap to them. It's ultimately a pointless story.

[DraftBoy]

Made what up? They know.
They always know. They aren't John Q lunch pail dumbass Smith.

Based on what you’ve shared thus far, pretty much everything.

[YardRat]

Construction Rule #1---it's going to cost more and take longer than you think.

The most common reason any project comes in on-time and under/at budget is because there was enough slush built in to cover them.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

What ruse? They have, we don't have. We are tax slaves. Nothing gormes wrong for them.
Conspiracy is exactly how the world is run. That's not theory. It's fact.
Definition of conspiracy= wealthy powerful men behind closed doors, deciding your future. That's how countries have always been run.
Needing to lay more for the stadium doesn't mean crap to them. It's ultimately a pointless story.

It would be better if you began your sentences with "I believe." We might ask why you believe it. But to be told things about reality that are plainly false makes for unpleasant reading.

For example, people who believe thoughts similar to yours are hard-core Genny Cream addicts. Fact.

[BansheeSioux]

It would be better if you began your sentences with "I believe." We might ask why you believe it. But to be told things about reality that are plainly false makes for unpleasant reading.

For example, people who believe thoughts similar to yours are hard-core Genny Cream addicts. Fact.

Believe?
I ,in fact, know.
Believe is a pointless word.
The wealthy know exactly what they are doing.
But again, what difference does it make?
They are not going to stop building and are not going to lose any money or go into any kind of debt. They just raise taxes on your ass as always.
You sweat bank loans. They pull money out of thin air. Type a number on a computer screen and say "look,that's how much we have now.

I'm sorry but that's just how it is.

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What's a Genny cream?

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Believe?
I ,in fact, know.
Believe is a pointless word.
The wealthy know exactly what they are doing.
But again, what difference does it make?
They are not going to stop building and are not going to lose any money or go into any kind of debt. They just raise taxes on your ass as always.
You sweat bank loans. They pull money out of thin air. Type a number on a computer screen and say "look,that's how much we have now.

I'm sorry but that's just how it is.

- - - Updated - - -

What's a Genny cream?

Well we keep asking you HOW you know. Please share.

[Woodman]

Work harder Bub.

I like the use of the word Bub you hardly ever see it anymore!! :cheers:

[BansheeSioux]

Well we keep asking you HOW you know. Please share.

Um, show what? History has shown I'm right over and over.
The rich get richer. They have no penalty for overspending. We get poorer.
What exactly do you think you're arguing? Youust be trolling because you're basically defending billionaires that don't give a damn you exist

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Um, show what? History has shown I'm right over and over.
The rich get richer. They have no penalty for overspending. We get poorer.
What exactly do you think you're arguing? Youust be trolling because you're basically defending billionaires that don't give a damn you exist

Are you a Trump voter?

[BansheeSioux]

Are you a Trump voter?
Lol
There is no left or right. Red or blue.
They are on the same side.
No one's vote actually counts.

All politicians are liars. Puppets.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

Lol
There is no left or right. Red or blue.
They are on the same side.
No one's vote actually counts.

All politicians are liars. Puppets.

That’s an answer to a question not asked.

Do you have ADHD?

[Goobylal]

That’s an answer to a question not asked.

Do you have ADHD?

Your question made no sense. You should have asked if he was a Biden voter.

[BansheeSioux]

That’s an answer to a question not asked.

Do you have ADHD?

You're obviously trolling in circles now.
And ADHD is a bunvh of made up crap. The so called symptoms are just typical every day stuff for everyone.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

You're obviously trolling in circles now.
And ADHD is a bunvh of made up crap. The so called symptoms are just typical every day stuff for everyone.

That's yet another answer to a question not asked.

Can you do a simple yes or no question? Yes or no?

[DraftBoy]

You're obviously trolling in circles now.
And ADHD is a bunvh of made up crap. The so called symptoms are just typical every day stuff for everyone.

Tell us was it the Illuminati or another secret society that made up ADHD to you?

[Typ0]

I think you need to be carefull....ADD is the catchall ADHD is different.

[POTLAND PSILBYLO]

I think you need to be carefull....ADD is the catchall ADHD is different.

I’m simply asking. No is an answer. No extraordinary care is needed.